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The Scion FR-S is the result of a collaboration between Toyota and Subaru

BMW i8 Hybrid Sports Car Concept
Not much is known about the latest partnership, but it aims to focus on lightweighting technology, powertrain electrification and a fuel cell system

BMW and Toyota are teaming up for an upcoming sports car as well as electric vehicle (EV) technology development.

Back in March, both automakers entered an agreement to develop next-generation lithium-ion batteries. They also agreed that BMW would supply 1.6 litre and 2.0 litre engines to Toyota Motor Europe in 2014. Now, the two have decided to join forces once again for other EV technology and a new sports vehicle.

"We aim to further strengthen our competitive position in sustainable future technologies," said Norbert Reithofer, chairman of the Board of Management for BMW. "We signed an MoU to this effect today. Toyota and the BMW Group share the same strategic vision of sustainable individual future mobility. Together we have a great opportunity to continue leading our industry through this transformation."

Not much is known about the latest partnership, but it aims to focus on lightweight technology, powertrain electrification, and a fuel cell system.

"BMW and Toyota both want to make ever-better cars," said Akio Toyoda, President of Toyota Motor Corporation. "We respect each other. And I think this is shown by our taking the next step only six months since the signing of our initial agreement. Toyota is strong in environment-friendly hybrids and fuel cells. On the other hand, I believe BMW's strength is in developing sports cars. I am excited to think of the cars that will result from this relationship."

Source: Autoblog



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BMW
By TerranMagistrate on 6/29/2012 12:56:46 PM , Rating: 2
Could definitely use some of Toyota's engineering prowess to build more reliable cars. They sure are in need of it.

Probably won't happen though, that would do a number on Lexus' NA market share.




RE: BMW
By Flunk on 6/29/12, Rating: 0
RE: BMW
By Camikazi on 6/29/2012 11:41:22 PM , Rating: 2
I'm hoping the 86/FR-S/BRZ are just the first of the sports and better designed cars they push out. Those 3 (or one) car/s are a very nice start for them.


RE: BMW
By Reclaimer77 on 6/30/12, Rating: -1
RE: BMW
By Camikazi on 6/30/2012 12:58:32 PM , Rating: 2
They mean boring look wise, cause Toyota cars have been very boring looking for a long time now and the FR-S/86/BRZ is a huge step in a different direction for them.


RE: BMW
By jeffkro on 7/1/12, Rating: -1
RE: BMW
By jeffkro on 7/1/2012 12:51:51 AM , Rating: 2
BMW has really come up in reliability but last I checked they are still more problematic then Honda and Toyota.


RE: BMW
By mead drinker on 6/29/2012 2:20:26 PM , Rating: 1
I am sorry to disagree but I and my family have owned both and I have had far fewer problems with my BMWs than with Toyotas.

My 03 Celica GT-S that I bought new had three liftbolts replaced(one almost warranted an engine replacement), a brand new tranny after several issues with worn synchros, A/C Compressor failure, the trunk pistons giving out after 10,000 miles making it a guillotine, and intermittent CEL. I babied the hell out of that car, changed oil every 3,000 miles with Mobil 1, didn't really rag on the manual transmission, lubed suspension regularly, etc. Despite all that I loved it.

Mom's Rav4 would go through alternators like chewing gum. Eventually lemoned and now she is in a Cadillac SRX. Could not be happier.

Aunts 08 Camry, keyless access issues, bearing failure at wheel hubs, consumes oil like Oprah on a fried chicken diet, A/C leak at the evaporator, and discoloration of body panels(ugly seafoam green color).

Both of my BMWs, E46 M3 and E92 335i get oil changes every 7.5-10k and I have had never had an issue. Go figure.


RE: BMW
By Samus on 6/29/2012 3:30:10 PM , Rating: 2
I also agree, my parents have had far less problems with their 1999 BMW 318i than their 2002 Toyota Camry. The Camry isn't a lemon, but it has had a number of annoying safety recalls such as the power seat rail clips and an emissions problem causing poor fuel economy, both problems that plagued them for the first year of ownership until Toyota finally recalled them.

The Camry has also had the iconic Toyota power steering problems that have plagued random cars of theirs for decades (everyone I know who's owned a Toyota since the 80's has complained about one thing, power steering pump failures and leaks)

The BMW needed a new clutch recently (at 120k) which cost a lot ($1700) because it is a dual-mass flywheel, but other than basic maintenance has been very reliable, and unlike the Camry, isn't rusting, either.


RE: BMW
By LordSojar on 6/29/2012 6:41:01 PM , Rating: 2
I'm so glad we're comparing BMW to Toyota. Is that even a contest? It's like saying a $10 french press is more reliable than a $25,000 espresso machine, despite the espresso machine being hand crafted in Italy and the french press being made in China.

Sure, BMW has a few issues with their cars here and there, but so does Toyota. Most people wouldn't cross shop between BMW and Toyota, so the point is moot. A BMW will tear apart a Toyota in performance, luxury and looks (when pitted model to model by pricing bracket/performance bracket)


RE: BMW
By jeffkro on 7/1/2012 1:00:27 AM , Rating: 2
Proof is in the pudding Lexus came in for a while and took sales from BMW but now BMW seems to be wiping the floor with them.


RE: BMW
By jeffkro on 7/1/2012 12:57:22 AM , Rating: 2
My aunt sue stories and not a reliable source to get accurate reliability ratings. You need to look at review sites like consumer report. PS I have a 7 year old Tacoma that had a gas cap and battery go bad, not bad. I wan't a new car just because but just can't get myself to burn the money when my tacoma just keeps doing the job for free.


RE: BMW
By mead drinker on 7/2/2012 12:33:18 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
My aunt sue stories and not a reliable source to get accurate reliability ratings. You need to look at review sites like consumer report. PS I have a 7 year old Tacoma that had a gas cap and battery go bad, not bad. I wan't a new car just because but just can't get myself to burn the money when my tacoma just keeps doing the job for free.


If you think three out of my family's four purchased Toyotas a case do not make then that is your perrogative. I don't need to visit consumer websites to know how bad those cars are/were. We were the consumers. To be honest I blame my families brand loyalty. It was the reason why my first car was a Toyota. After all of the issues we had, the writing was on the wall for us. Buy the best car for the money in whatever segment you are looking at regardless of brand. The blanket statement by the OP that Toyota's are reliable and BMWs are not is unfounded. Hell 90% of the cars out there are "reliable" but what does that really mean?


RE: BMW
By jeffkro on 7/1/2012 12:59:03 AM , Rating: 2
Well yeah going from a Rav4 to a Cadillac SRX would be more enjoyable for anyone, doesn't speak to practicallity though.


RE: BMW
By ballist1x on 7/2/2012 4:52:12 AM , Rating: 2
Really? 3 lift bolts? There are two in the 2zz engine and i cant understand how you'd change 3...

i have a Corolla T Sport (XRS to you) same engine, had the lift bolts replaced at 55k miles, virtually no wear on them.

Transmission was fine...i had the car for 3 years and about 20k miles no issues...

So then i bought an MR2 GT Turbo, no real issues here either. Sure the suspension is 17 years old and needs a refresh but hell even the AC still works. It was still on the original plug wires, coil pack, dizzie cap n rotor and still ran fine..


RE: BMW
By mead drinker on 7/2/2012 1:21:33 PM , Rating: 1
I love your indignant attitude...

I had two replaced at 46k miles when one of them completely sheared off and the other showed wear. Then, when lift would not engage at 68k miles, it was the same thing. So yes a total of 3. People at newcelica.org were trying things like cryo treating them and checking them every 20,000 miles to prevent them from shearing off which if they did could cause substantial damage. Several of the member's engine cylinder heads and rockers warrantied engine replacement.

Glad to see your 2zz lift bolts never had issues but realize that this engine was in the Celica since 09 and only several years later went into the Corolla/Matrix/Vibe in 03 and they had been redisgned in late 02. We were the guinea pigs and brought numerous things like oil starvation to light as a result of people autocrossing and sump location. So... Your welcome.

As far as the transmission... In the early years of the model the six speed tranny had notoriously narrow shift gates, terrible engagement, and some of the worst synchros ever. Shit, I remember on several occasions it randomly falling out of 3rd gear on its own. Toyota redesigned the shift gates several times across the years and even lowered the rev limiter to combat misshift issues that were pretty rampant in the GT-S community.


RE: BMW
By jeffkro on 7/1/2012 12:50:56 AM , Rating: 2
Great BMW can add styling, performance, and cool factor to the project and Toyota can add .... eh

Reliability?

Toyota hasn't made a "got to have it" car in a long time. They just make super solid cars and trucks.


By EricMartello on 6/29/2012 8:27:05 PM , Rating: 2
Toyota used to build and sell a car called the Supra back in the 80s thru the 90s. It axed that car right before the dotcom bubble popped citing poor sales...they wanted nearly $60K for it when all was said and done for a car that should have been sold around $35K.

Even now shelling out $100K for a Nissan (GT-R) is a lol-worthy proposition because it's a nissan and they didn't even stay true to the Skyline that the GT-R was influenced by. Both cars are cool, but substantially overpriced by roughly 100%...in other words their ideal (reasonable) prices for waht they are would be half of what it is now.

I think the FR-S being offered by Scion is a step in the right direction - it's a RWD car that's like the Celica used to be before they made it into a chick coupe...but I would to see the big automakers bringing back their iconic vehicles at prices more people can afford.

Forget about convoluted hybrid powertrains that really only offer benefits in the city (while the batteries hold up) while adding weight, cost and unnecessary complexity. Make a nice-looking car that is fun to drive with decent power and a price that isn't more than most people make in a year. I would like that.

Making and selling hybrids or EVs doesn't make you a "green" company, and trying to play at being "green" when your not just makes you look like a tool.




By Galcobar on 6/29/2012 9:26:45 PM , Rating: 2
The Supra was the high-power version of the Celica from its introduction (Celica Supra, aka best Celica) until it was displaced by the GT4 or All-trac Celica.

The Celica went from RWD to FWD or AWD as of the fourth generation. The Supra was spun off at the same time -- 1986.

The Supra Mk IV and the Nissan 300Z weren't overpriced, so much as they were over-burdened. Weight and price kept going up as more stuff was added to each. The 350Z represented Nissan stripping out the extra weight and toys to bring back a powerful car with reasonable handling.

The FRS/BRZ/GT86 goes back to the AE86, which is a reasonably powerful car with supremely good handling.

The Celica's glory days were as an AWD rally car -- after the majority of its production went FF.


By EricMartello on 6/30/2012 3:35:22 AM , Rating: 2
I wanted to buy a supra turbo in the late 90s and was going to but I ended up getting a Viper GTS instead.

The 300ZX was another cool car that would have done better if it wasn't priced out of the market. Nissan is STILL doing the same thing with their current lineup, especially the Maxima which is like $40K+ for a family sedan in the same class as a $25-30K Camry or $20-$25K Sonata. It still sells but it's not a $40K class ride. You're paying for business class and getting coach with a little extra leg room (with the Maxima).

What other cars could $50K+ buy you in 1995-2000? It was a lot more then than now, that's for sure. These days you need to drop like $120K+ to get into something reasonable "exotic" like a Corvette ZR-1 or a Porsche 911. Luckily some companies provide reasonably priced options like Subaru and Mitsubishi with the Impreza and Evolution respectively.

What I'm saying is keep the prices for the iconic cars a premium but don't OVER price them so much so that they become a loss leader and get the axe. Toyota could bring back the Supra even if it was just an updated Mk3 and sell a decent amount of units at $40-$50K (a reasonable price in TODAY'S money). Unfortunately, Nissan seems to think a few minor tweaks to the 2013 GT-R warrant a $10K price hike. I bet you the GT-R is going to be cancelled within a model year or two.


By jeffkro on 7/1/2012 1:02:06 AM , Rating: 2
You know acura is bringing back the NSX


By Reclaimer77 on 7/1/2012 3:15:50 PM , Rating: 1
NSX in name only...


By FITCamaro on 7/2/2012 8:05:21 AM , Rating: 2
95 was the last year for the ZR-1 if I recall.


By FormulaRedline on 7/2/2012 1:50:59 PM , Rating: 2
He's talking about current models.
quote:
These days you need to drop like $120K+ to get into something reasonable "exotic" like a Corvette ZR-1 or a Porsche 911.
The C4 ZR-1 was discontinued in 1995, but the C6 ZR-1 was introduced in 2009 and is still produced today.


fuel cell system
By semo on 6/29/2012 2:22:56 PM , Rating: 1
Why waste time with fuel cells. Not only do they want to inflate the price of batteries but now they want to force EV drivers to stand in line at the same "fuel" garages as ICE vehicle drivers. Boo!

I want to power my car from my home power socket and possibly solar panels, if they become financially viable.




Copy-paste failure -- Toyota is not run by Toyota
By Galcobar on 6/29/12, Rating: -1
By Camikazi on 6/30/2012 1:00:44 PM , Rating: 1
You know it could be that he meant "said Toyota" as in it was a statement made by the company. Whether the mouthpiece of the company says it or not, what they say is the company's statement.


"You can bet that Sony built a long-term business plan about being successful in Japan and that business plan is crumbling." -- Peter Moore, 24 hours before his Microsoft resignation














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