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While it may look stylish, BMW's all-eletric Mini E has been a cautionary tale for future mass market EV attempts. The plug-ins have suffered from a variety of problems.  (Source: The Sag Harbor Express)

Mini E owners have found their vehicles running out of charge and needing to be towed. Others have been forced to resort to stealing electricity from businesses to get enough juice to make it home.  (Source: Helayne Seidman For The Washington Post)
Many are saying the woes of BMW's Mini E are a sign of problems to come for Nissan, GM, Ford, and others

BMW became the first EV maker to release an electric vehicle affordable enough for the average consumer to try one.  While lease quantities of the vehicle, the Mini E EV, are scarce (the lease fleet consists of less than 500 vehicles), they represent a significant milestone. At $850 USD/month, the leased vehicle represents the only EV currently on the U.S. market offered at an affordable price.  Granted, the program is heavily funded by the company's internal research investments, tax subsidies, and grants from governments worldwide, however, many hoped it to be a solid start to the growing movement to release affordable EVs.

That start appears to be a bit rockier than EV advocates pictured, though.  Across the country participants in the program are expressing a variety of frustrations including irritation at poor range, lack of charging stations, and poor performance in hot or cold weather.  While these problems won't necessarily effect every EV, they are relatively universal -- for example, GM's engineering team says the 2011 Chevy Volt EV may not be a good fit for customers in the U.S. Southwest, due to performance issues in hot weather.

Unlike the Volt, though, the Mini E is a pure electric.  This makes it more akin to the upcoming 2011 Nissan Leaf EV.  Under normal conditions it gets about 100 miles on a charge, with a max-range of 150 miles, similar stats to Nissan's (the Leaf's target range is 100 real-world miles).

The lack of a gas engine backup is presenting even more new problems.  Nationwide there only 734 reported EV charging stations, mostly located in California, while there are 117,000+ gas stations.  This makes it hard to find places to charge when on the road and away from home. 

A company called Ecotality has paired with Nissan to deploy 7,000 EV recharge stations nationwide, with the help of a $100M USD government grant.  However, that does little to help drivers who have already run out of juice.  With a gas car, you could simply walk to the station and bring gas back to your vehicle in a can.  You can't do that with an EV, so their use requires more planning, and can create headaches at times, users are discovering.

Paul Heitmann, a Mini E leaser, recalls a close call where he almost ran out of power, before spotting a powered Coke machine at a gas station.  He remembers, "I thought 'Finally!' because I knew if there was light, there would be electricity.  I sat there looking at the gas pumps that said $2.45 a gallon.  And I thought, 'What I wouldn't give to be able to use that.' Two and a half dollars, and I could have gotten another 25 miles."

Of course, as his story indicates, the system is flawed -- desperate EV owners are stealing electricity from sources they can find, for lack of an official charging/payment infrastructure.  And it's hardly a pleasant experience for the energy thieves either -- Mr. Heitmann had to sit for an hour in the dark, waiting for his car to recharge.

Weather is yet another problem for virtually all EVs approaching the market, save perhaps expensive models like the Tesla Roadster.  In the cold the Mini Es' range -- already less than half that of a gas vehicle -- drops even more, to 80 miles or less.  Comments Robert Hooper, 44, a computer manager from New Jersey and Mini E leaser, "I was shocked.  I'm nervous."

Timothy Gill, 59, a software engineer from Maplewood, N.J., had his Mini E towed after it ran out of charge on a cold winter day.  He blogged, "Towed! After only 87.8 miles. . . . Sheesh!"

Jim O'Donnell, chairman and chief executive of BMW North America, admits that the experiences are indicative of a rocky road ahead for the EV movement.  He states, "I would argue that the case for the electric car is not proven.  We're not quite sure people are willing to go for it. We're asking consumers to pay more and get less. Our view is: Proceed with caution."

However, with many manufacturers like GM, Ford, and Nissan planning mass-market launches of 10,000 units per year or more, it may be sink or swim time for the movement's mass market appeal.  With all the problems afflicting the Mini E, the real question is whether these players are pushing EVs to market prematurely, and risk permanently damaging customers image of plug-in vehicles.

Still, some remain optimistic.  Timothy Gill, another Mini E leaser cheers, "The car is a joy."

His license plate reads "WHY GAS."  



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WHY GAS
By Vorian on 12/29/2009 12:42:47 PM , Rating: 5
WHY GAS???

BECAUSE IT WORKS!!!




RE: WHY GAS
By Mitch101 on 12/29/2009 12:57:37 PM , Rating: 5
$183.00 + $2.45 + 1 Hour = Problem Solved
http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_...


RE: WHY GAS
By lelias2k on 12/29/2009 1:18:01 PM , Rating: 2
LOL


RE: WHY GAS
By Sulphademus on 12/29/2009 2:31:09 PM , Rating: 5
If only they could get it to run on smug, all our oil issues would be over!


RE: WHY GAS
By retrospooty on 12/29/09, Rating: 0
RE: WHY GAS
By robertisaar on 12/29/09, Rating: -1
RE: WHY GAS
By Camikazi on 12/29/2009 1:54:32 PM , Rating: 2
Gas powered generator to charge an all electric car just to get home, ha I love it :)


RE: WHY GAS
By GWD5318 on 12/30/2009 5:16:15 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Gas powered generator to charge an all electric car just to get home...


Hmmm, this reminds me of something.....what could it be?

Oh, I know. The Chevy freakin' Volt!

At least the Volt has this advantage over the electric only vehicles out there, if nothing else.


RE: WHY GAS
By MrBlastman on 12/29/2009 2:13:22 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
Intended for outdoor use only; indoor use may result in injury or death.


Hmm, I don't see a disclaimer that says:

"Intended for powering home appliances only. Not for use in an automotive environment."

So it just might work. :) What I am curious about is how many amps does this Mini E require from the 110V line? Wait, found it--12-amps and it requires 24-hours to recharge using a 110V socket. One thing though, and I don't mean to be critical, but at 12 amps at 110V, you need 1320 Watts of continuous power draw. The generator linked is only 1000 Watts continuous.

This guy though:

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_...

Will do, with 1400 W Rated continuous draw. 4 gallons of gas, 9 hours at 1/2 load so I'll assume 7.56 hours at 1320 Watt draw. (1320/2000)*9. That means we will need to refuel it (24/7.56) 3.17 times, so it will take a total of (3.17*4) 12.6984 gallons of fuel to charge this thing... To go what? 100 miles?

So lets see, (100/12.6984) that means we are getting _only_ 7.87 Miles PER GALLON.

Where's your fuel efficiency now, BMW. Why Gas? Because... it is more efficient than this dud.

Wait, it costs 800+ bucks a month to get 7.87 mpg. Hmm. His plate should change to: Why EV?

I think it is rather comical that these enviro-hippies might have to resort to the good ole' fashioned gas generator to power their expensive "toy" that is supposed to save the earth.

800+ bucks a month to lease? That is a fargin house payment. 800+ bucks a month plus a gas generator in the trunk--priceless.


RE: WHY GAS
By Kurz on 12/29/2009 3:36:56 PM , Rating: 1
Umm... Thats with gas gen trying to recharge it.
The cost is much lower for charging it home.

All you proved is charging a car with a Gas Gen is inefficient. That goes the same as using gasoline to move the car. Only 20%~ is used to move the car the rest is excess heat.

The future is electric, just currently its held back by Batteries and the cost of them.

To be honest I don't want the current cars, but at least they are working on it. (800 Dollar lease is wrong they are just trying to get a profit out of it.


RE: WHY GAS
By Jedi2155 on 12/29/2009 6:54:52 PM , Rating: 2
Plus that is hardly the most efficient electric generator while the Volt was aiming to change it with 35-45 MPG from generator -> electricity. All these people have proven is a simple portable series hybrid approach.


RE: WHY GAS
By coolkev99 on 12/30/2009 7:45:08 AM , Rating: 2
Because designing and building new technology is cheap... right?


RE: WHY GAS
By PrinceGaz on 12/29/2009 2:17:55 PM , Rating: 3
Reminds me of an episode of Top Gear a few weeks ago when they made a DIY electric car, and ended up adding a generator like that to top up the batteries. It "worked" (using the very loose definition of "worked" which is needed when discussing Top Gear's DIY cars) :)


RE: WHY GAS
By PlasmaBomb on 12/30/2009 7:31:46 AM , Rating: 2
If by worked you mean "nearly asphyxiated the passengers," then yes it worked.


RE: WHY GAS
By drewsup on 12/29/2009 4:16:27 PM , Rating: 2
Dude, if I could mod to 10, i would. That is funny!


RE: WHY GAS
By PitViper007 on 12/29/2009 4:50:14 PM , Rating: 2
You know, I love the fact that the first person to review the generator is using it in an OILFIELD!!!!


RE: WHY GAS
By SoulBlighter on 12/29/2009 1:27:33 PM , Rating: 2
I assume all of the gas stations have electricity, but not enough to support hundreds of EV cars. I think, for start, they can sell electricity along with gas. All the require is transformer to increase the voltage and reduce the charging time + Metering to charge customers. Meantime government keeps working on more efficient charging stations.
Regarding the range problem due to hot and cold climate, i assume all EV cars come with gauge to tell how much energy is left in batteries?


RE: WHY GAS
By Jedi2155 on 12/29/2009 6:56:15 PM , Rating: 2
All the EV's I've driven have it and they're fairly accurate to boot usually with plenty of headroom.


RE: WHY GAS
By slawless on 12/29/2009 10:28:56 PM , Rating: 3
$850 a month!!!! after subsidies. For about the same amount you could lease an M3 without subsidies. which would you rather drive?


RE: WHY GAS
By wookie1 on 12/30/2009 10:43:32 AM , Rating: 2
Planet hater


RE: WHY GAS
By fox12789 on 12/30/09, Rating: -1
RE: WHY GAS
By slimg00dy on 12/30/2009 9:33:40 AM , Rating: 2
Exactly this doesn't work. This will work if you charge up your own car from home right? What about the people who live in apartment buildings and most town houses? What then?

I'm sure I'll be no fan of walking over wires just to get my mail.


Change the way you drive
By Kurz on 12/29/2009 12:51:00 PM , Rating: 2
Seriously I bet 75% will drive the car like they stole it.
Then they wonder why they got 87 miles.

When a car takes a few hours to charge and has a limited range you have to drive smarter. You don't need to accelerate faster than 2,000 RPM (speaking Gas Engine here) anywhere. Slow down while approaching a Red Light and time with it by looking at the other light. (Most of time I don't have to stop unless its not a main road).

Sad to say batteries are still severly effected by temperatures. Once that is solved then people wont have an excuse.




RE: Change the way you drive
By lelias2k on 12/29/2009 1:21:18 PM , Rating: 1
Good luck trying to advocate that.

Ppl don't buy their cars only as transportation. There's much more to it.

Also, one thing is to drive like that in a place with a few cars. Good luck doing that in a big city... Hopefully they won't find a way to drive over you... lol


RE: Change the way you drive
By Kurz on 12/29/2009 1:54:22 PM , Rating: 1
The funny thing is Majority of the time people Past me I see them at the next red light.

Example:
Me and a friend did a trip at 10pm at night he has a lead foot constantly over the limit (My guess he was going 65).
I obey the Limit to the T (Mostly for Fuel Economy)
A trip of 20 mins of 50 mph then to a city like conditions of 30 Mph.

Guess what we arrived within seconds of each other.

The reason is how the lights are timed.
I got mostly green while he said he got so many reds on the way. So he spent a bit of time waiting while I just cruise on by.

I happend to get 36-37 mpg in my Rav4 2.4 L engine.
Scangauge thats within 1 percent.


RE: Change the way you drive
By Camikazi on 12/29/2009 1:56:59 PM , Rating: 5
Obviously he should have gone 80 and passed next light before it went red! Well that is what I would do :)


RE: Change the way you drive
By Yawgm0th on 12/29/2009 2:28:03 PM , Rating: 3
Past that point your gas mileage is free! The cops don't charge you for the trip to jail.


RE: Change the way you drive
By Camikazi on 12/29/2009 2:36:28 PM , Rating: 2
Have to get caught for that to happen :)


RE: Change the way you drive
By Zoomer on 12/29/2009 4:31:39 PM , Rating: 2
There's a stretch of road that is just about perfectly timed so that going below 60 results in multiple reds. Kind of annoying seeing the limit is 35. But no one cares unless there's a blizzard.


RE: Change the way you drive
By Yawgm0th on 12/29/2009 1:51:33 PM , Rating: 2
All the hypermiling in the world isn't going to really address the problem. If I somehow got a 120 mile range out of it, I would still have to charge up every other day.

Also, I would have to be seen in a Mini. That might be the more serious problem.


RE: Change the way you drive
By PorreKaj on 12/29/09, Rating: 0
RE: Change the way you drive
By Kurz on 12/29/2009 3:39:41 PM , Rating: 1
Umm... you must live in New York or someplace else.
If you live anywhere in the suburbs it takes forever to get somewhere.

3 hours to go 6 miles.
Thats my Girlfriend's Bus commute.
Public Transport is a joke.


RE: Change the way you drive
By Kurz on 12/29/2009 3:47:04 PM , Rating: 2
Mostly because she has to wait at each stop.


RE: Change the way you drive
By ClownPuncher on 12/29/2009 3:48:19 PM , Rating: 3
It takes me 20 minutes to go 4 miles on a bus in a fairly suburban area. The bus is also free to ride. The city pays for it with money from the local businesses because having a free bus lets all of the old people get around and spend money at those businesses. The whole system works pretty well. I rarely drie anymore.


RE: Change the way you drive
By ClownPuncher on 12/29/2009 3:49:20 PM , Rating: 2
*drive


RE: Change the way you drive
By wookie1 on 12/30/2009 10:46:16 AM , Rating: 1
Well that's about 12 minutes too long then! I drive 17 miles to work in 28 minutes, by bus would be 1.5 hours after I drove 8 miles to the bus stop.


RE: Change the way you drive
By ClownPuncher on 12/30/2009 12:53:10 PM , Rating: 3
12 minutes a day to save thousands of dollars a year. I can motivate myself to get out of bed 12 minutes earlier.


RE: Change the way you drive
By Solandri on 1/3/2010 1:46:38 PM , Rating: 2
??? 17 miles - 8 miles = 9 miles one-way. Daily that's 18 miles. Figure his car does 25 mpg and and he goes to work 240 days out of the year. That's 172.8 gallons burned per year, which @ $3/gal is $518.40/yr.

Most of us have to pay to ride the bus. For Vancouver, the cheapest monthly pass is $73/mo (smaller area, but his 9 mile commute would fall into that range), which works out to $876/yr. So by using public transportation, you're quite often paying more and spending more time commuting.


RE: Change the way you drive
By ClownPuncher on 1/4/2010 2:37:43 PM , Rating: 2
You do know that you actually have to...like...buy a car right?


RE: Change the way you drive
By jrb531 on 12/30/2009 2:28:29 PM , Rating: 2
Which is why people "used" to live in areas that allowed them to get to work either by public transportation or other means. It's only been in the last few decades that people started moving all over the place because they could just drive.

I wonder if any public transportation (non-bus) would even be built today considering how spread out people are.

People "used" to live in big cities to be close to work. Now they drive so they can live far out away from the city and spend hours each day in the car thinking about how great it is that they do not have to live in the city :)


RE: Change the way you drive
By Spuke on 12/30/2009 4:02:22 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
People "used" to live in big cities to be close to work. Now they drive so they can live far out away from the city and spend hours each day in the car thinking about how great it is that they do not have to live in the city :)
Suburban "sprawl" I believe occurred in the 50's in the US. For the past 15 years or so, people have been moving towards urban areas. I live a good 45 mins past the LA suburbs and wouldn't trade it for the world. Homes are MUCH cheaper. Quality of life is MUCH better. There's more to life than saving gas.

I must admit my wife and I commute locally (still 60 minutes round trip each). Most people in my area commute to LA or its suburbs.


RE: Change the way you drive
By Omega215D on 12/29/2009 4:55:20 PM , Rating: 2
Nope, even in NYC there are lines that take 30 minutes to reach a mile (includes waiting for a poorly scheduled bus).

I ride a motorcycle whenever I can and these are my findings: trip from home to manhattan on mass transit takes 1H (on a good day), 35 min. by motorcycle, 45min. motorcycle 1/2 way then take a subway.

I only mention buses and subways because LIRR (commuter rail) is 2 -3X the price and they don't accept MetroCards (pay pass that allows free transfers from buses to subways).

Due to parking issues the car stays home and is shared among the family.


RE: Change the way you drive
By coolkev99 on 12/30/2009 7:47:38 AM , Rating: 2
Hypermiling isn't nearly as effective in electrics as gas.


LIES!
By Motoman on 12/29/09, Rating: 0
RE: LIES!
By vectorm12 on 12/29/2009 4:09:27 PM , Rating: 1
Whatever happend to the hydrogen fuel-cell cars?

At this point it seems almost everyone is in agreement that the move to EV isn't going to work out for most people.

It's clear that people don't plan ahead like they quite clearly need to in order to be able to rely on a EV.

I know the issues with setting up refueling systems and so on are problematic, but as the article states the lack of recharge stations isn't really any better.

At this point I would say good try but it's not going to work out at the moment. Put the investments proposed into hydrogen fuel-cell cars instead and see where that takes us.


RE: LIES!
By Motoman on 12/29/2009 5:56:42 PM , Rating: 1
You just have different problems...like the energy required to liberate hydrogen from water, and then transport it around without blowing everything up.

I'm all for investing in alternative fuels...I think some biofuels will make sense in the long run, and maybe EV will too at some point.

Now is not the time to shove them down our throats though.


RE: LIES!
By sinful on 12/29/2009 8:41:20 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
Now is not the time to shove them down our throats though.


I agree, we should wait until the next gas crisis, then scream at the auto companies for not immediately having the technology and infrastructure in place.

Brilliant. I wonder why we haven't done that already? Oh wait, that's right, we did. And the US was caught with their pants down, again, and we paid out a ton of money that we wouldn't have had to if we had learned our lesson the first few times around.


RE: LIES!
By wookie1 on 12/30/2009 10:51:45 AM , Rating: 2
Well then, you should lease one of these cars and any other alternate technologies to help it along!


RE: LIES!
By sinful on 12/30/2009 2:11:11 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Well then, you should lease one of these cars and any other alternate technologies to help it along!


Wait, I have a choice? I thought they were being 'shoved down our throats'!?!?!


RE: LIES!
By Lerianis on 12/31/2009 2:47:50 AM , Rating: 2
No, we shouldn't. The fact is that the government is doing a good enough job of funding these things, to the point where I am ALREADY paying through taxes a good chunk of change for these technologies.

I should NOT have to lease one of these cars BEFORE THEY ARE VIABLE FOR THE WIDE MARKET... that is the sticking point here that you don't get, wookie: they aren't ready for the 99.99999% of people in this country that have to go more than 20 miles each way to work a day, like my parents.

Let alone for vacations and other things, where 400 miles is not an unheard of thing, like when my parents go to West Virginia.


RE: LIES!
By Motoman on 12/30/2009 11:52:00 AM , Rating: 1
...you'll notice that at no point did I say we needed to stop working on such technologies. In fact, I said that at some point I think EV probably will be workable.

Just not now. So save your screams for the next time you watch Goosebumps.


RE: LIES!
By Lerianis on 12/31/2009 2:43:45 AM , Rating: 2
Motoman, I agree totally with you.... the fact is that biofuels and EV will make sense AT SOME POINT IN THE FAR FUTURE (20+ years from now).... not at the moment however.

The range of electrical vehicles just is not there for most people. The biofuels have their own problems with production and competing with necessary foodstuffs for space in fields. I could keep going on, but anyone who is SANE would get the drift.

We should keep working on them.... however, we should NOT force them down anyone's throat at the moment, and unfortunately that is what the enviroloonies wish to do: force them down everyone's throat whether they want them or not, because they think that they are 'saving the world'.


By chromal on 12/29/2009 12:34:32 PM , Rating: 5
I'm sure sure I'd call US$850/mo "affordable." Crap, that's enough to pay down a pretty sizable 30-yr mortgage. I bought my '98 civic used in '01 for $5000. Since I'm still driving it today, that works out to about US$52.08/mo. Now THAT is "affordable."




By Yawgm0th on 12/29/2009 1:48:01 PM , Rating: 5
It's more than I pay for my mortgage, townhouse association, and utilities combined. Alternatively, it's greater than my car payment, insurance, gas, and maintenance combined.

Basically, it's for people with too much money who want a more frustrating car rather than a better one.


By PitViper007 on 12/29/2009 4:53:10 PM , Rating: 2
I'll admit my mortgage is more than the lease on this thing, but affordable?!?!? I think not.


By thorr2 on 12/29/2009 12:43:05 PM , Rating: 2
I would not own an EV without gas capabilities on board unless it was very cheap and the insurance was very cheap and would save me money for driving around town. I would have to also pay for another car for longer distances. Running out of energy and being stranded is almost always the fault of bad planning on the part of the driver though (electric or gasoline).

The Volt gets around all of these problems by including a gasoline powered generator. Even if the car's gasoline generator ran all of the time, it supposedly still gets 50 MPG. They just need to get the bugs worked out and the prices down by mass producing them which should hopefully happen over the next few years.




By Lord 666 on 12/29/2009 1:03:48 PM , Rating: 3
Change the word "gasoline" to "diesel" and it fixes several of the problems and improves highway performance and mpg.


By Justin Time on 12/29/2009 6:34:41 PM , Rating: 2
It doesn’t resolve the primary problem.

Oil industry experts claim we have already passed peak oil, and estimate only around 30-40 years supply at current rates of use, taking into account anticipated new discoveries.

However, factoring in the surging demand of China and India, and the estimated roll-off rate in the supply, oil will become scarce and impossibly expensive, long before then... perhaps as little as 10 years... and not even radical improvements to the economy of vehicles is going to alter that inevitability.

Pesticides, Fertilisers, Farming, Food-Distribution, Pharmaceuticals, Plastics, you name it, it depends on oil... and running out of will be disastrous.

This is not a “greenie” argument, we simply can’t afford to waste what’s left by burning it for such trivial uses as personal transport.

We have to find a practical replacement for using our precious resources of oil this way.


By thorr2 on 12/29/2009 7:46:28 PM , Rating: 2
True, but it is a step in the right direction. Eventually, the infrastructure will have to be in place to replace gas stations with something else (in the short term I guess it would be quick-charge electrical stations). Ideally the power would come from the road via electromagnetics or something similar, or from the air and filling up the tank as we know it today will become a thing of the past.


By Lerianis on 12/31/2009 1:59:35 AM , Rating: 2
Uh, no.... the TRUE EXPERTS are pulling oil out of the ground everywhere that they look and are finding... GASP! That old oil fields that were TAPPED OUT are REFILLING for some reason.

Now, it appears to me that 'peak oil' is a.... well, BS thing, judging by that oil field refilling. Sure, it's only .5% to 1% a year.... but that's still pretty darn good for something that was supposedly made from DINOSAURS!


Patience
By QuimaxW on 12/29/2009 12:56:52 PM , Rating: 2
I dont' think these woes will hurt the EV movement in the long run. It took decades to create the gasoline infrastructure we have today and it may take years to get similar infrastructure for EV/Hyrdrogen/whatever future fuels we use. With such a mix of fuels coming into the prime time now, ALL of them are going to have this pain.

People have been driving EV's for ages, and loving it. The range issue is one that EV owners simply need to be aware of. Most current EV owners have an EV for 'daily' use and a gas car (or they rent one) for long trips and such.

Give it all time...whatever happens in this 'green' movement, it's bound to be better than what we've been using. And yes, we will be using the gasoline engine for decades more to come.




RE: Patience
By wookie1 on 12/30/2009 10:54:11 AM , Rating: 2
WTF? Maintenance and insurance on one car is enough, now you want me to have a car to drive to work in and another if I need to go somewhere farther? What a waste!


Stupid question
By amanojaku on 12/29/2009 1:22:03 PM , Rating: 1
When you sell something, particularly something expensive, you generally test it's durability for it's intended environment. Why didn't anyone stick this thing in a freezer or the Volt in an oven???




RE: Stupid question
By Yawgm0th on 12/29/2009 1:53:52 PM , Rating: 2
Alternatively, why not drive it from Minnesota to Mexico? I'm guessing it's pretty much unusable here in the arctic mid-west. Not that I'd want to drive on snow and ice with a Mini regardless of the engine.


I can see it now..
By drewsup on 12/29/2009 4:27:09 PM , Rating: 3
Hey Mike! We're all gonna meet at the new bar across town after work, free beer and hot wings till 7:30, wanna meet us there.
Uhmm, hold on a minute.. Lets see.. drove 35 miles to work, drove another 10 at lunch, it's 10 degrees outside and work has no outside plugs..Hmm i got to pass tonight guys, meed to make sure I got enough Juice to get home!




shocking news
By tastyratz on 12/29/2009 1:45:37 PM , Rating: 2
wait just a minute, batteries have thermal requirements and perform poorly in conditions such as hot/cold? Who could have predicted such a thing???

Next your going to try to tell me that people drive cars outside when its hot AND cold... AND they want it to work when its both!

Has nobody in the ev camp owned a set of AA's before?




Still more tech
By bildan on 12/29/2009 2:54:57 PM , Rating: 2
I think the problem is a mindset to rely on the battery for everything when a propane heater for cold months would be a better solution.

I've wondered if a 10 gallon Dewar of liquid nitrogen tucked away somewhere under the hood would provide enough cooling for air conditioning if allowed to evaporate through an AC heat exchanger. LN2 is cheaper than gasoline.

The Walmart generator set isn't a bad idea. A dedicated automotive diesel genset that produced the correct DC voltage for battery charging would be more efficient, however.




By roostitup on 12/29/2009 2:59:25 PM , Rating: 2
All the more reason to be pushing hydrogen as a more practical alternative energy source! EV's have their uses, but it's not something we should put our faith into like we did with gasoline! In the end using a multitude of alternative energy sources would be best as to not become depended on one. If one energy source becomes more scarce or harder to get than the others will more easily pick up the slack. This will help avoid the current problem we are having with gasoline dependency and rushing to produce an alternative.




I can see it now..
By drewsup on 12/29/2009 4:27:49 PM , Rating: 2
Hey Mike! We're all gonna meet at the new bar across town after work, free beer and hot wings till 7:30, wanna meet us there.
Uhmm, hold on a minute.. Lets see.. drove 35 miles to work, drove another 10 at lunch, it's 10 degrees outside and work has no outside plugs..Hmm i got to pass tonight guys, need to make sure I got enough Juice to get home!




electricity
By 3p on 12/29/2009 5:39:57 PM , Rating: 2
Now where does that come from? Mostly fossil fuels + some transmission loss = your clean EV.




joke
By coolkev99 on 12/30/2009 7:50:15 AM , Rating: 2
People would rather dot the landscape where they live and work with thousands of wind turbines, and drive cars with a range of 87 miles, and spend and hour "filling it", than offend a polar bear by running a pipe through a barren wasteland.

Oh, and don't tell me anyone still believes we are responsible for changing the temperature of the earth!?

http://www.geocraft.com/WVFossils/greenhouse_data....




$850/month lease is affordable!?
By OCedHrt on 12/30/2009 8:20:39 AM , Rating: 2
By whom?!

Since when has a $85k (extrapolating) car been considered affordable?




The word you are looking for
By ElFenix on 12/31/2009 9:35:48 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Paul Heitmann, a Mini E leaser , recalls a close call where he almost ran out of power, before spotting a powered Coke machine at a gas station.


is lessee.

A lessor is the person who leases property to a lessee.




"So, I think the same thing of the music industry. They can't say that they're losing money, you know what I'm saying. They just probably don't have the same surplus that they had." -- Wu-Tang Clan founder RZA














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