backtop

Print 55 comment(s) - last by StinkyWhizzleT.. on Oct 8 at 2:19 PM
Auto sales crash during the month of September

Automakers disclosed September car sales have dropped back to a level prior to the two-month chaos caused by the Cash For Clunkers program.

The month of September proved to be the second worst month for auto sales in the United States during 2009, alarming some auto industry followers who say cash-strapped Americans now lost a major incentive to purchase new vehicles.

"Floor traffic was lousy all month," GM VP of U.S. sales Mark LaNeve recently told reporters.  "Every brand, every region of the country -- it was a real post-clunker hangover.  It was disappointing.  I expected the month to be a bit stronger, but it just wasn't."

Honda suffered a 20% drop in sales, Toyota sales dropped 13%, and Nissan sales lowered 7%.  Last month, Ford sales fell just 5%, though the U.S. automaker saw 5% growth during the third quarter making the company optimistic it has what it takes to hang with foreign automakers.

The big winner of the month was Hyundai, which saw sales rise 27% in the month of September.  The car quality continues to increase while the price tag of most Hyundai vehicles remains relatively low, which makes it appealing for car buyers looking for a vehicle on a budget.

As a whole, September sales fell 41% compared to August, and was 23% lower than September 2008.  For the rest of the year, automakers expect the industry to continue to be difficult, with the post-clunkers fallout expected to continue.

Comments     Threshold


This article is over a month old, voting and posting comments is disabled
Ford is great.
By Spivonious on 10/6/2009 9:31:32 AM , Rating: 3
I'd just like to say that I'm happy Ford is getting the respect they deserve.

I fit three guitar amps and a drumset in my Focus ZX3 last night and had room to spare. Not bad for a $12k car.




RE: Ford is great.
By jonmcc33 on 10/6/09, Rating: -1
RE: Ford is great.
By Spivonious on 10/6/2009 10:21:27 AM , Rating: 1
Sorry but your Hyundai isn't a hatchback and therefore wouldn't fit any of these guitar amps due to their height. Oh and mine was $12k new.


RE: Ford is great.
By MrBlastman on 10/6/2009 11:00:14 AM , Rating: 2
I would hardly call an 8.39 second 0-60 time for your Sonata leaving someone in the dust. No, I'd say that is rather lethargic.

Source:
http://www.edmunds.com/used/2006/hyundai/sonata/10...


RE: Ford is great.
By adiposity on 10/6/2009 12:58:57 PM , Rating: 1
Yeah, but it beats the focus..., which was his point...

8.9s

http://www.forbes.com/2001/04/02/0402test.html


RE: Ford is great.
By StraightCashHomey on 10/6/2009 1:40:11 PM , Rating: 4
And his point was dumb. I bet dust isn't even kicked up from a car accelerating that slowly.

I'm sure snails leave glaciers in the dust, but who gives a damn?


RE: Ford is great.
By Spivonious on 10/6/2009 2:47:04 PM , Rating: 3
lol, and I'm sure we can all notice the .5 second difference.

It's fast enough for me to have some fun with it. Since I'm not racing anyone, that's good enough for me.


RE: Ford is great.
By Spivonious on 10/6/2009 2:49:13 PM , Rating: 3
And I get 25/32mpg in real life, not the rated 18/27 of the Hyundai. I think I'll get over losing .41 seconds in straight acceleration.


RE: Ford is great.
By ExarKun333 on 10/6/2009 4:02:49 PM , Rating: 2
Congrats on the Focus; I would definitely take that over the Sonata unless I needed the additional room (I don't).

Great little cars.


RE: Ford is great.
By EJ257 on 10/6/2009 10:22:38 AM , Rating: 5
If I were to buy a car today I choose a Ford over a GM. Speaking for myself, the fact that they did not take a government hand out tipped the scale in their favor.


RE: Ford is great.
By HrilL on 10/6/2009 12:10:43 PM , Rating: 1
Ford took about 5 Billion is loans but nothing close to GM who is now owned by the Government.


RE: Ford is great.
By ebakke on 10/6/2009 1:16:32 PM , Rating: 4
That was a DOE program that had absolutely nothing to do with Ford's financial soundness, and had everything to do with the gov't mandating higher fuel efficiency and in doing so, providing research dollars to achieve it.


RE: Ford is great.
By Reclaimer77 on 10/6/09, Rating: 0
RE: Ford is great.
By jimbojimbo on 10/6/2009 4:36:33 PM , Rating: 2
Going by this guy's definiton of a good car, I've got a refrigerator box in the back alley that's an awesome car!


RE: Ford is great.
By Spivonious on 10/7/2009 10:49:16 AM , Rating: 2
They're great because they designed a cheap compact hatchback that I can fit a lot of stuff in and is fun to drive. Name another compact hatchback that can fit that amount of stuff and can be bought for $12k new.


RE: Ford is great.
By Hiawa23 on 10/6/2009 4:34:44 PM , Rating: 5
I am shocked, did automakers expect consumers to keep buying autos when most only bought due to the clunkers deal.
I know the elites think the recession is over but for most people it's an all out depression & unless retailers offer some huge holiday discounts they too are going to be hurtin this holiday season which is about to start.


RE: Ford is great.
By Fireshade on 10/7/2009 5:50:32 AM , Rating: 3
No, I don't think they're so stupid to believe that.
In my opinion it's just an underhanded way to get a prolongation of the Cash for Clunkers programme. I.e. they want more gov't money to support their sales.


Inflated
By Alphafox78 on 10/6/2009 9:32:09 AM , Rating: 5
Well it was an inflated number to begin with. If you have to give people money to buy something its not self sustaining.
kind of like most green tech, if it was subsudised then it would be too expensive.




RE: Inflated
By Alphafox78 on 10/6/2009 9:32:47 AM , Rating: 2
wasnt subsudised.


RE: Inflated
By MrBlastman on 10/6/2009 11:05:08 AM , Rating: 5
You mean, kind of like Welfare?

Give people the knowledge of how to catch a fish and they will be able to catch many more. Give people a fish and like a cat who wants to be fed, they will be back in a few hours begging for another fish.

Sadly, this program worked for a short while but has not toppled the 5 - 6% consumer savings rate... yet. Keep trying administration. If you continue to spend more, we'll eventually see more money being spent--because prices keep going UP due to our dollar becoming worth less and less.

It _was_ an interesting experiment though. Unfortunately it targeted a depreciating asset rather than one that could appreciate and gain value over time. So, in retrospect, I should have seen it as pissing money down the drain to begin with.


RE: Inflated
By Machinegear on 10/6/2009 1:39:22 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
If you continue to spend more, we'll eventually see more money being spent--because prices keep going UP due to our dollar becoming worth less and less.


The declining US dollar has been a real issue for decades and on the same downward trajectory with other historical fiat currencies that have faded away into oblivion. Actually, all fiat money starts to depreciate after the first printing, kind'a like driving a new car off the car lot. The car is instantly worth less than what you just paid for it; pun intended.

MrBlastman, I am not certain that a declining US dollar is worth one’s contemplation anymore. Nor I am certain a car program envisioned and implemented by our best political minds simply to juice a zombie economy once again is worth a moment of frustration. Why? Because I am fairly certain the US dollar is already slated to be removed as the world’s reserve currency, unpegged from oil, and in general, devalued all the way to zero which isn’t too far off since it is only worth 5% of what it did in 1913 anyway.

So rejoice! The Cash-for-Clunkers program is not the straw that broke the camel’s back. No! The camel was already dead. The straw just happened to be on its back! Laters…

Some current events sources for those still in school:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125482825818867313...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/currency/615220...

http://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm


RE: Inflated
By MrBlastman on 10/6/2009 2:55:32 PM , Rating: 3
Well, the declining dollar has been an issue for decades due to inflation. Thankfully, over the past 20 - 30 years we have had very little inflation (average of about 2.75% or so) so it has not been a significant concern. Likewise, the Dollar, at least currently, is worth _more_ than it was versus the British Pound 10 years ago--for the moment. It gained a tremendous amount of ground versus it in the last year, but is on the brink of giving it all back. The Euro though it has consistenly declined against.

If you want to buy anything from the UK, now is the time to do it before it reverses course once again.

But what could lead it to reverse course? In simplest terms it can be measured in supply and demand. Currently, the demand for money is great as people have lost jobs, are unemployed or being underpaid. The Federal Government has obliged and has injected a great deal of money into the system, thus increasing the supply. It has actually done this in two ways: Stimulus is one and printing and selling Treasury Notes/Bills is another. To further facilitate its liquidity, interest rates have been cut to nearly zero thus trying to negate the benefit of hoarding the money rather than spending it. In addition, the near zero-interest rates have the added benefit of making lending far more attractive.

The only problem is lenders have lost a great deal of appetite to dole out the money (though it is coming back). So what we have right now is a great deal of demand for money and a huge supply of it that has been made available (though hasn't fully trickled into the economy just yet). Eventually, it will trickle in and that demand will subside, but the increased supply will remain.

This will greatly affect the inflation rate and at some point it could theoretically skyrocket. You think the mid-70's inflation was bad (it was), we might end up there again and sooner than you think. As a side, interest rates will then skyrocket to counteract this inflation and well, it won't be pretty for those at the time who have to borrow but potentially good for those that want to lend.

For those who bought cars (which depreciate in value), that 1000.00 resale value (arbitrary number) is worth 1000.00 now, but might be worth only 800.00 (not accounting for depreciation) later, thus hurting future buying power. So what has it really stimulated? Not much other than the further depreciation of wealth.

So really, when you get down to it, understanding our currency and how it works relative to itself, our economy and global currencies and economies is extremely important. It can completely change how you put things in perspective once you begin to grasp all of it.


RE: Inflated
By Machinegear on 10/6/2009 10:01:39 PM , Rating: 2
I don't disagree with the core of your analysis at all. Inflation is an important topic to learn as it decreases everyone’s purchasing power daily.

The point I failed to emphasize clearly was rather than focusing on the deflated value of a US Dollar, a stronger look at the real possibility of its eventual collapse is in order. When that happens, the merits of a silly car program and its minor effects on US currency probably won’t mean much.

Good day.


RE: Inflated
By Machinegear on 10/6/2009 2:33:20 PM , Rating: 2
RE: Inflated
By borismkv on 10/7/2009 12:58:56 AM , Rating: 2
Get used to that chart. That's what the US economy is going to look like when the free guv'ment money (TARP) runs out.


RE: Inflated
By jimbojimbo on 10/6/2009 4:35:41 PM , Rating: 2
People on welfare can still vote so the big gov loves giving them money, especially Dems.


Forgot Hyundai Assurance
By Lord 666 on 10/6/2009 9:33:45 AM , Rating: 2
Think this also has a big part of the sustained increase of sales since March - http://www.hyundaiusa.com/financing/HyundaiAssuran...

Only Hyundai and VW have done well in this market downturn. VW has survived the US market partially due to their TDI, but more to their limited exposure to the US sales (this is in response to Spuke). At 8% market share, there isn't much to loose. That should change with the new Tennessee plant and the new Passat.




RE: Forgot Hyundai Assurance
By Spuke on 10/6/2009 12:26:59 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
VW has survived the US market partially due to their TDI, but more to their limited exposure to the US sales (this is in response to Spuke)
Have I disputed any actual sales data? Also, don't forget about Kia, Subaru, Volvo, BMW (Mini), Porsche, Ferrari, and Rolls Royce. All of those are doing well too. Most of those don't have a single diesel car in their lineups.


RE: Forgot Hyundai Assurance
By Lord 666 on 10/6/2009 1:51:49 PM , Rating: 2
In another thread, you stated the fact that there are more Corllas sold per quarter than all US VW sales yearly. However, the only two brands that have had sales increases are VW and Hyundai.

Don't have the market information for the other brands. Subaru, Volvo, and BMW do have diesels... but unfortunately only BMW has them in the US. Both Volvo (already pays yearly penalty for CAFE) and Subaru need fuel efficiency improvements ASAP. Don't understand why Puerto Rico gets a diesel XC90 but not the US. I used to live in PR and people moved their cars to and from the US all of the time... don't see why the diesel XC90 can't be imported.


RE: Forgot Hyundai Assurance
By Spuke on 10/6/2009 9:13:55 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
In another thread, you stated the fact that there are more Corllas sold per quarter than all US VW sales yearly. However, the only two brands that have had sales increases are VW and Hyundai.
Last time I checked, the Corolla wasn't a car company. LOL! Here, see for yourself:
http://online.wsj.com/mdc/public/page/2_3022-autos...


RE: Forgot Hyundai Assurance
By Lord 666 on 10/6/2009 11:36:43 PM , Rating: 2
BS on the fact they combine sales of Corolla and Matrix.

Also interesting that both the Fusion and Jetta has similar increase of sales year to year and along with September 2009 sales. Account that to the hybrid and TDI model respectively.


RE: Forgot Hyundai Assurance
By Spuke on 10/7/2009 12:25:21 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
BS on the fact they combine sales of Corolla and Matrix.
They're the same car just a different body. They SHOULD count as the same. I wish GM would do that with their pickups. Same with the Camry/Camry Hybrid, Ford Escape/Escape Hybrid and etc.


RE: Forgot Hyundai Assurance
By Lord 666 on 10/7/2009 1:29:25 PM , Rating: 2
I work in public health and thrive on stats. The delineation of the two similar but tracking the different models is significant. If it wasn't, why doesn't Toyota just called it Corolla Wagon? Likewise, the Camry/Camry Hybrid and Escape/Escape Hybrid are very important to tabulate separately.


They had no sales because they had no product
By 3minence on 10/6/2009 9:55:35 AM , Rating: 2
I went to buy a Honda Fit right after the program ended but they had none. They had very few Civics either. I'm still waiting for more Fit's to arrive. If you don't have an actual product to sell, your not going to make any sales.

I went to Best Buy, and both AT&T and Verizon stores to find a charger for my Palm Treo. None of them had one. They actually didn't seem to have much inventory at all.

As I've looked around I've noticed that many stores have very limited inventory. More and more I have to go to the internet to find what I want. I'm beginning to wonder, is this recession because nobody is buying, or because theirs nothing to buy?




RE: They had no sales because they had no product
By maevinj on 10/6/2009 10:10:03 AM , Rating: 2
Yep I've noticed that too. It's kind of like the chicken and the egg scenario. which came first? Do stores have to have products to buy or customers who want to buy things


By Spuke on 10/6/2009 12:01:42 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I went to buy a Honda Fit right after the program ended but they had none. They had very few Civics either. I'm still waiting for more Fit's to arrive.
Heard about this. It seems that when sales started to tank, dealerships reduced their inventories (and automakers reduced production) and when the cash for clunkers hit, a lot of them didn't have enough cars to sell. I heard that automakers are supposed to increase production a bit but I imagine that will take a bit to do.


By Reclaimer77 on 10/6/2009 12:36:48 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
As I've looked around I've noticed that many stores have very limited inventory. More and more I have to go to the internet to find what I want. I'm beginning to wonder, is this recession because nobody is buying, or because theirs nothing to buy?


It's kind of hard to keep production up to a maximum when you can't afford to keep people employed..


What do they expect?
By StevoLincolnite on 10/6/2009 9:45:15 AM , Rating: 2
I mean seriously, you "Subsidize" a product, the people who were interested in buying a new car would have done so during that time frame, to get the product cheaper.

Take the subsidy's away, and the product is more expensive, and thus less attractive to allot of buyers who would have probably bought the car during the Clash for Clunkers deal.

Here Holden has been doing it fairly tough, things got even harder when GM killed off the Pontiac brand, and thus the G8 that Holden was making/exporting, now there is news that the Los Angeles Police Department might be importing the Holden Commodore for there police fleet, which will create thousands of jobs here and certainly make Holden feel better. :)

I think the car companies should honestly start making cars people want... and not what they think they want, hows about a survey or something GM/Ford on what the people want and then build it?




RE: What do they expect?
By Spuke on 10/6/2009 9:59:08 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
I think the car companies should honestly start making cars people want... and not what they think they want, hows about a survey or something GM/Ford on what the people want and then build it?
I can't speak for your country but in the US, automakers have been doing this for decades. See the following link for cars that people actually want in the US. Scroll down to the top 20 list. Most of the cars on that list have been on it for many years (for example..the Ford F Series has been number 1 or number 2 for the past 30 years ). Feel free to peruse the rest of the site though.

http://online.wsj.com/mdc/public/page/2_3022-autos...


RE: What do they expect?
By Yawgm0th on 10/6/2009 1:08:47 PM , Rating: 2
“If I’d asked people what they wanted, they would have said a faster horse.”


This just reinforces what I have always said...
By Skott on 10/6/2009 10:38:03 AM , Rating: 2
That the Cash for Clunkers (CfC) program only benefitted those that were able to buy cars this year regardless of pricing. The CfC program just gave them that extra incentive to go out and buy during the program's run. The CfC program got everyone who could afford a car this year to go ahead and go out and buy one. They got a great deal. Problem is now that you got those who were holding back to commit now you dont have any available buyers since most people are just saving what cash they have till this economic mess is over. Now what are the auto makers and dealers going to do? Ask the Govt for another program?




By Masospaghetti on 10/6/2009 12:48:56 PM , Rating: 3
Exactly - the $3 billion spent on the program did nothing but shift sales up a couple of months with absolutely no net gain. $3 billion thrown away.


By aj28 on 10/6/2009 6:29:39 PM , Rating: 1
First off, I don't think that principle works with 100% efficiency. Even if it was a small number, there were at least some sales generated (rather than expedited) by CFC. Beyond that, the MPG requirement means that Americans are driving more efficient cars than they might otherwise have purchased (as you postulate, later in the year) were it not for the CFC incentive.

Not to mention, it gave auto manufacturers real, immediate cash flow when they needed it, rather than have the same cash trickling in later on in the year when the need may not be as great.


Why no GM and Chrysler numbers?
By Crucial on 10/6/2009 10:46:22 AM , Rating: 3
GM and Chrysler dropped 45% and 42%. Why no mention of these worse than everyone else numbers?




RE: Why no GM and Chrysler numbers?
By Spuke on 10/6/2009 12:07:25 PM , Rating: 2
Might as well mention:

Mitsubishi 36%
Suzuki 54%
Saab 73%
Isuzu 100%


Stupid car dealers
By jimbojimbo on 10/6/2009 4:39:19 PM , Rating: 2
Seriously, considering they thought that car sales rates would be same during a period when buyers were given free money compared to when buyers are no longer getting that free money, is it any wonder the auto industry is doing so poorly?? Really? They thought sales would continue as is? Come on, how freakin' stupid is that!!




RE: Stupid car dealers
By Spuke on 10/6/2009 9:17:07 PM , Rating: 2
I think the only thing I find surprising is that the Ford F Series retook the top spot AND had an increase in sales by 3.5% over last month. Can the automakers PLEASE build the cars that people actually want to buy? LOL!


Govt.
By deeznuts on 10/7/2009 12:18:47 AM , Rating: 2
For every government action, there is always an opposite and destructive reaction. Always.




RE: Govt.
By StinkyWhizzleTeeth on 10/8/2009 2:19:05 PM , Rating: 2
I like how you didn't say "equal but opposite".

Many don't seem to realize the government destroys wealth and productivity. It can only enable the conditions where wealth and productivity are created and thrive. At the moment wealth can still be created by the economy, but that is going away too.


Shocking..
By StraightCashHomey on 10/6/2009 9:32:59 AM , Rating: 2
Who would have seen this coming? There's always that minor little detail that nobody thought of..




By Bateluer on 10/6/2009 9:33:20 AM , Rating: 2
. . . if/when I decide to buy that 2010 Focus?




Credit - we're all feeling it
By mydogfarted on 10/6/2009 10:22:37 AM , Rating: 2
Here is part of the problem - the economy is still in the crapper. I'd love to buy a new car right now. The problem is all my credit card companies are crying poverty, and most of my cards have been pushed to 25%+ rates, significantly increasing my monthly payment. I'm not the only person I know who has gotten the letter with a paragraph starting "due to the increasing cost of doing business..."

Kind of hard to pay for a luxury, like a new car, when I barely have the money to pay my other expenses.




and yet...
By Gul Westfale on 10/6/2009 12:58:50 PM , Rating: 2
yesterday here in montreal a newspaper reported that both BMW and mercedes said that their sales grew significantly in september 2009 when compared to september 2008. mercedes reported a growth of something like 31% if memory serves correctly, and called it their best month in canada since they began selling cars here. BMW, which includes mini in its sales reports, said their sales grew by more than 40% (can't remember the exact number).

yet, the japanese reported losses when compared to a year earlier.

so obviously the rich people are starting to be able to afford expensive cars again. might this be a sign that the recession is over?




just wondering...
By TSS on 10/6/2009 12:59:22 PM , Rating: 2
How did the *used* car markt do last month? seeing as i heard cash for clunkers killed off alot of... well cars that would sell for very little.

Also, October will be interesting indeed. Afterall, it's been a year since car sales took a plummet (and we got all dramatic numbers like 40% cars less then last year). So i'm wondering if october sales will drop/rise compared to a year ago.




brilliant
By coolkev99 on 10/8/2009 8:09:35 AM , Rating: 2
And who didn't see this coming? So basically the increase in sales from the C4C month and then the sales crash the next average out. So the C4C was another failed program that didn't do squat to help the ecomomy, and wasted billions. Offering money you borrowed from the people, back to the people for cars doesn't create jobs.




"Spreading the rumors, it's very easy because the people who write about Apple want that story, and you can claim its credible because you spoke to someone at Apple." -- Investment guru Jim Cramer











botimage
Copyright 2012 DailyTech LLC. - RSS Feed | Advertise | About Us | Ethics | FAQ | Terms, Conditions & Privacy Information | Kristopher Kubicki