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Activision has released a new Crash Bandicoot racing game, which takes advantage of the iPhone's large screen and strong GPU to deliver silky 3D graphics and the phone's tilt sensor to provide control.  (Source: Apple)

Id Software, makers of the Doom series, is cooking up 2 special games for the iPhone. Company founder John Carmack says the platform provides challenges due to lack of buttons and will not replace the PSP and DS. Nonetheless he's looking forward to developing for it.  (Source: T3)
Could Apple's iPhone be the mobile gaming giant of the future

Apple's iPhone has enjoyed wild success and has become the top selling phone in America.  Meanwhile, Apple's App Store business is booming with millions of downloads of the affordable apps found on the site.

At launch, over a third of the applications were games.  And with a rapidly expanding user base -- currently at 13 million phones -- the handheld is looking to put the heat on Nintendo and Sony's mobile gaming efforts, an objective that might have been considered laughable when the iPhone first debuted.

Currently 2,000 iPhone games are available with many more on their way. 

Sega Corp. and Id Software Inc. are just a couple of the gaming industry's power players that are devoting large amounts of money and resources to develop new games for the iPhone.  Drawn to the phone's touch screen and relatively powerful graphics processor, they're looking to make the iPhone into a gaming handheld.

One major lure to developers is pure economics.  By directing selling their applications through the App Store, they get a larger cut than they would frequently get going through publishers and retailers for console release.  Also they can develop quick little games which they can sell for a few dollars or give away free in exchange for ad revenue.

Simon Jeffery, the U.S. president of Sega comments, "Games sold via the App Store are the most profitable in terms of any of the formats we work on."

Sega has sold 500,000 copies of a $10 game called "Super Monkey Ball" for the iPhone and iPod Touch.  The resulting revenue, according to Sega would be equivalent to a rare hit on the Nintendo DS or Sony PSP.  Despite the significantly higher costs of games on these platforms -- as much as $30 -- Sega is raking in a bigger profit thanks to Apple's 30-70 cut, which gives 30 percent of revenue to Apple and 70 percent to the developer.

Neil Young, a longtime executive at games publisher Electronic Arts Inc. quit his job to start up Ngmoco Inc., a gaming house dedicated entirely to the iPhone and iPod Touch.  He states, "It feels to me like there's a real threat to their [Sony's and Nintendo's] business from the iPhone."

Apple CEO Steve Jobs says that roughly 50 million games have been downloaded for the iPhone.  He states, "I think the iPhone and iPod touch may emerge as really viable devices in the mobile games market this holiday season."

Interestingly, Nintendo does not perceive the competition with Apple as something new.  It says it has long been competing for users' time with handheld devices.  Says Reggie Fils-Aime, president and chief operating officer of Nintendo's U.S. division, "Whether you chose to play on your DS or listen to music on your iPod, we're already in the same competitive space for time."

Sony on the other hand doesn't think its competing at all with iPhone.  It scoffs at such comparisons, insisting that the device is only good for quick and frivolous gaming, while its PSP offers in-depth gaming.  John Koller, director of hardware marketing for Sony's PSP states, "The consumer is using the mobile gaming on the iPhone and iPod Touch as a time waster."

Perhaps Apple is onto a bit of Nintendo-esque magic, though, in finding a way to reinvent gaming.  Free of the startup costs of cartridge manufacturing and other fees many small start-ups are able to launch games with little previous market experience.  Bart Decrem, a Silicon Valley executive who formed a company called Tapulous Inc. is perhaps the poster child of such efforts.  His game "Tap Tap Revenge" taps into the mojo that made games like Dance Dance Revolution and Guitar Hero popular, by having users tap and shake the phone to various beats as commanded.

Jaguar and Comedy Central are just a couple of the big names to buy advertising on the free ad-supported version.  A $4.99 version has also been released, featuring the band Nine Inch Nails.

John Sims, a bank teller in Denver, who owns both a Nintendo DS and Sony PSP has found his iPhone stealing him away from these competitors.  He states, "I can listen to my iPod and play games at the same time, and when I'm done I can just put it in my pocket.  The short amount of time I've had the iPhone, I've played more games on that than on my PSP and DS combined."

Key limitations to the platform include the lack buttons and lack of support.  While Apple has been generous in its distribution setup financially, it has taken a rather indifferent air to its gaming developers.  Many have commented that Steve Jobs and his company "don't care" about gaming.

Nonetheless drawn to features like the iPhone's big screen, strong graphics processor, and tilt sensor, more and more game developers are investing in the iPhone.  Whether it can truly pass Nintendo and Sony remains to be seen, but it has already established itself as a competitor.



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Jobba the Steve, what won't you say?
By Gzus666 on 11/13/2008 12:45:48 PM , Rating: 5
They can't be serious. How many games do they think they can really put out that have either wobble or touch control? Could you imagine a shooter or strategy or most games besides Monkey Ball, racing and quick games that without real face buttons and sticks? I really hope they try this, then crash and burn.




RE: Jobba the Steve, what won't you say?
By michael2k on 11/13/2008 12:53:11 PM , Rating: 2
What about Diablo and Starcraft? Point/click, circle/select, drag, double tap, and multifinger slide?

So that means the entire RTS genre could be fit into the iPhone. Then the non realtime strategy, like Civilization and the ilk. Then the board-game type games like Settlers of Catalan, the "casual" games like Bookworm or Bejeweled... You could do Starfox style rail games pretty easy, or Resident Evil style games where you click to move. You could even do FPS with a Doom style engine; two finger drag to turn, point to move, double tap to shoot, etc.

The only thing that is difficult for the iPhone to do is light gun games,


RE: Jobba the Steve, what won't you say?
By afkrotch on 11/13/2008 1:05:42 PM , Rating: 2
Any RTS on the iPhone. Would be one crappy ass RTS. Maybe the original C&C would work, but the later ones have become a bit more complicated to use on a touchscreen interface.

No control groups, no hotkey'd buildings, etc. With all of your advanced controls gone, you might as well just have an Atari 2600.

As for any of the other games, I doubt the fanbase would want to deal with use haphazard control schemes that you've mentioned.

It'd be a wiser solution to create a bluetooth controller to go with the phone. Maybe even add in a memory slot on the controller to transfer new games onto the iPhone. Doubt it'd ever happen.


RE: Jobba the Steve, what won't you say?
By michael2k on 11/13/2008 1:11:59 PM , Rating: 3
Um, we aren't talking about hardcore Starcraft players, we're talking about the general public who wants to play a five minute pickup game. Control interfaces will be simplified, unit counts will be reduced, mapsizes limited, and simplicity increased.

Otherwise you miss the whole point of the Wii and DS in this market (The DS has a 67MHz GPU and a 33MHz CPU, compared to the 412MHz CPU and GPU on an iPhone).


RE: Jobba the Steve, what won't you say?
By omnicronx on 11/13/2008 1:24:57 PM , Rating: 5
quote:
Otherwise you miss the whole point of the Wii and DS in this market (The DS has a 67MHz GPU and a 33MHz CPU, compared to the 412MHz CPU and GPU on an iPhone).
The difference being (which is the same when comparing any console OS to a computer/handheld OS) is that the game runs atop the iPhones OS, which is already somewhat CPU intensive. Meanwhile consoles always have a very light OS which barely needs any power, and acts more like a loader than an OS. A 33mhz Playstation could outperform a 400-500mhz pentium 2/3 with a videocard. Optimization for one and only one use is always far easier too..

Also in terms of the touch screen, I agree with the other posters, you just can't play any game like starcraft on a tiny touch screen. Heck I have SimCity2000 installed on my WinMo phone and it uses a stylus and its nearly impossible to play. Using your fingers would be a nightmare.


RE: Jobba the Steve, what won't you say?
By michael2k on 11/13/08, Rating: -1
RE: Jobba the Steve, what won't you say?
By 306maxi on 11/13/2008 1:31:23 PM , Rating: 5
You do realise that using clockspeed as a comparitive measure between different architectures went out of fashion about 5 years ago don't you?


RE: Jobba the Steve, what won't you say?
By michael2k on 11/13/2008 2:11:48 PM , Rating: 2
Not when the devices use the same architecture! iPhone uses the ARM 11 architecture and the DS uses the ARM 9 and ARM 4 architectures. Apple also happened to use the same ARM 4 core in it's Apple iPod...

So it would be like comparing a 4GHz Core CPU with a 2GHz PowerVR vs a 333MHz Pentium Pro and 667MHz Pentium 2... there are definitely architectural changes, but at the same time there is a literally a greather than 10x different in CPU speed and GPU speeds!


By LordanSS on 11/13/2008 9:02:00 PM , Rating: 2
...and?

The original XBOX had a Pentium 3 derivative, that ran much slower than any processor available on the consumer market for desktops. Still, games ran just fine, and "ports" for the PC required configurations that would greatly surpass what was under the hood of the console.

Consoles (portable or not) are specialized machines. An iPhone isn't (specialized for gaming). Even though they might share the same architecture, they're built for different purposes.



RE: Jobba the Steve, what won't you say?
By chick0n on 11/13/08, Rating: -1
By fibreoptik on 11/14/2008 11:46:49 AM , Rating: 2
No one likes you chick0n, please go away.


RE: Jobba the Steve, what won't you say?
By Gzus666 on 11/13/2008 2:33:46 PM , Rating: 3
The DS does not compete at all power wise with the PSP, you are out of your mind. Want examples? Well just look at the graphics of the games on each.

You see a lot of games being capable cause you are an Apple tool, you are just as bad as these people who say everything Microsoft makes is the Holy Grail. It is a casual gaming machine at best. Monkey Ball, maybe some small driving games, other than that, it is a joke. Christ, the G1 would make a better gaming machine, at least it has a roller ball and face buttons.


RE: Jobba the Steve, what won't you say?
By michael2k on 11/13/2008 3:24:36 PM , Rating: 2
Perhaps I wasn't clear. I meant the DS competed, power wise, despite the 10x disparity between the DS and PSP.

I'm implying that good games trump higher performance. The issue is then are developers skilled enough to create good games on the iPhone?

The iPhone is physically quite capable of matching the original PSX and possibly the PS2 in terms of graphics and processing. The only thing that would stop it is UI, as you allude. There were plenty of PSX games that did not utilize all 9 buttons available for play, requiring only three+directions. The issue is then can you map directions to a touch screen? You certainly can for point and click mouse style games. Can you map actions to a touch screen? Again you can do so with point/click games like Diablo or Starcraft, and games like Resident Evil can certainly be mapped to a point/click interface.

I never disagreed that it was forced into the casual gaming machine market, and that is why I compared it to a Wii, of all things.


RE: Jobba the Steve, what won't you say?
By Gzus666 on 11/13/2008 3:40:30 PM , Rating: 2
I really wouldn't want to play an RTS on a console, let alone the iPhone.

The DS competes because it is cheap and has the stylis as a gimmick. Gameboy had better games (Castlevania on the Advance was awesome!).

PS Games would be a joke on the iPhone. Action games would be impossible. Fighters are a dream. RTS as stated would be a nightmare. Strategy is a maybe, but would still suck by comparison.

Jobs is talking out of his ass (as usual) and this will never get anywhere close to the PSP or DS.


RE: Jobba the Steve, what won't you say?
By Shmak on 11/13/2008 5:22:12 PM , Rating: 2
Lets use some logic here for a second instead of just blathering on about input devices. The technology market is shifting away from traditional interfaces as shown by the wii controller, new developments in haptics such as the brainwave controller, and successes like rock band and guitar hero. There are also more and more touch-screen interfaces invading our every day devices. Businesses like restaurants, banks, and retail stores certainly aren't afraid them. I can imagine that 5 years from now there will be thousands of games of every genre manipulated through touch-screens or similar technology, and they will be far more intuitive than the keyboard and mouse (or the god-forsaken console controller) ever were.

Regardless of whether the iPhone actually competes, the virtue of its very capable interface places it far above most gaming devices.


RE: Jobba the Steve, what won't you say?
By Gzus666 on 11/13/2008 5:30:17 PM , Rating: 2
You sir, live in a dream land. Touch interface is useful for some things, games isn't one of them. I don't discount new input devices, I discount this input device. You babble on and on about all these things, yet what we are talking about is a piss poor gaming setup by using your finger and tilting the damn thing. Short of mind input or sensor gun, there is no better way to do RTS, action or FPS than mouse/keyboard and controller.


RE: Jobba the Steve, what won't you say?
By Shmak on 11/13/2008 5:51:51 PM , Rating: 3
Spare me. I design games. I'll save you the trouble of thinking a bit more and convey this nugget; most digital games are designed around the interface their player will most likely use. Obvious no? This is a case of an interface without a large gamerbase, but simply stating that the interface is incapable of providing fun gameplay is stupidity.

But hey, I guess someone told the guy with the first inflated ball he wouldn't be able to make a fun game with that too.


RE: Jobba the Steve, what won't you say?
By Gzus666 on 11/13/2008 10:13:59 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
Spare me. I design games. I'll save you the trouble of thinking a bit more and convey this nugget; most digital games are designed around the interface their player will most likely use. Obvious no?


Extremely, the most likely interface to be used will be a mouse/keyboard or controller at this time, so it would seem by your own remarks, this is the case. Touch interfaces are used in 1 gaming system, that is the DS. On top of that, it isn't the main interface. Why you ask? Cause it is worthless alone for most every game short of BS games.

The Wii has motion, but it doesn't rely solely on this, cause again, it would be stupid. If you truly "design games", I have a feeling you would realize most games use a normal input of some sort. The iPhone has touch and accelerometers as inputs, nothing else. It will get some cheap ports and some silly games, that is it.

The fact that we are reverting back to trashy games with no physics, AI or intensive graphics is really disheartening. These are all things that add to the gaming experience, not some silly input interface.


RE: Jobba the Steve, what won't you say?
By Shmak on 11/14/2008 2:47:41 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
If you truly "design games", I have a feeling you would realize most games use a normal input of some sort.


You are proving my point right here: describe a "normal input" for a game. Balls and sticks? Many games tend to use those. How about little figures and a grid? Thats been around for quite a while. You missed the idea that the interface can be just about anything, which nullifies your argument. There is no "normal input."

quote:
The fact that we are reverting back to trashy games with no physics, AI or intensive graphics is really disheartening. These are all things that add to the gaming experience, not some silly input interface.


And you just happened to mention three things that have almost nothing to do with games at all. The greatest digital game yet created (Tetris) had only one of these three in a form that you could not really call "physics" in a traditional sense, yet it can be played on the oldest of systems, cellphones, and the iPhone I'm sure.

Regardless of whether I have proved that I design games, you have proved that you know nothing about them, so save your comments about input devices and what should and should not be used.


RE: Jobba the Steve, what won't you say?
By Gzus666 on 11/14/2008 2:57:30 PM , Rating: 2
I'm proving your point that the most used input devices don't involve purely touch/motion? I was under the impression that was my point, but OK.

I know nothing about games even though I have been playing them through Atari? You seriously think that physics, AI and intensive graphics have nothing to do with games? What do you make games for?

Computer, PS3, 360 are all pushing these realms with games and are doing well with it. iPhone is talking about competing with the PSP, which clearly strives for these things. We aren't talking about basic games like Tetris here, to Apple's own admittance they want more. Real gaming requires these things beyond your basic quick games.


By Shmak on 11/14/2008 11:10:25 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Touch interface is useful for some things, games isn't one of them.

This is your point since you seem to have forgotten it.

I've just noticed that this entire comment board is fueled by your obsessive posts. Here I thought there were a lot of ignorant people I had to convince, but in reality there is only one very loud ignorant person. Typical.


By UNCjigga on 11/17/2008 11:41:38 AM , Rating: 2
Hey dumbsh*t, how about you re-read the post WITHOUT your blind hatred of all things Apple and try again before you FAIL. What Mr. Game Designer is saying is that developers looking at the iPhone will design games SPECIFICALLY for a touch/tilt input mechanism. "It will get some cheap ports and silly games" you say? You aren't going to see anyone port a PC-based RTS game to the iPhone. But you CAN have a very basic FPS game using tilt forward/back for movement, tilt side-to-side for turning, and tap on the screen for aiming and shooting.

You also destroy your own argument with your last paragraph--"we are reverting back to trashy games with no physics, AI or intensive graphics"--are we still talking about the iPhone? Lemme tell you something cuz--the iPhone has SIMILAR/BETTER GRAPHICS than the PSP and DS respectively! It has a better processor! It also has a huge installed base of users (including all iPhones/iPod Touch). There are zero physical distribution costs for selling apps--everything is downloaded via App Store. Like the article stated, developers can make MORE MONEY and CHARGE LESS for iPhone games! Sounds like a bandwagon that game developers want to jump on, no?

I'm tired of dumbsh*ts like you who believe they "know" all things gaming just because they own the best PC gaming rig and spend more than a healthy amount of time playing some MMORPG. The hardcore gamer is a shrinking minority cuz, and casual gaming will make more money in the long run!


By PrinceGaz on 11/13/2008 7:23:52 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
There are also more and more touch-screen interfaces invading our every day devices. Businesses like restaurants, banks, and retail stores certainly aren't afraid them.


Unfortunately that is true. Most of these touch-screen interfaces are an absolute pain to use, with attempted virtual key-presses often being not registered at all, or registered twice, or registered on a different key to what you intended pressing (sometimes twice as well). And I do take care to press at a consistent pressure exactly where I should.

What I don't do (because they are not available) is clean the frickin screen before using it so that it can reliably pick up touch-input from fingers. Therein lies the problem with public touch-screen devices- the screen soon becomes covered with dirty/greasy/worse fingerprints and at worst it becomes a bit of a lottery on what it thinks you wanted to select.

Thankfully banks in Britain don't use touch-screens for their cashpoints as otherwise I think most people would have their cards swallowed up after three failed attempts to enter the correct PIN. And there would be a lot of annoyed customers waiting in the queue behind as each person struggles to get the machine to recognise what they wanted correctly.

Stick with real buttons, I say. They're a helluva lot more reliable than touch-screens for recognising user-input accurately, and also at the exact time the player intended for games (touch-screens are a bit imprecise at detecting exactly when you pressed it).


RE: Jobba the Steve, what won't you say?
By afkrotch on 11/14/2008 6:59:29 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
Perhaps I wasn't clear. I meant the DS competed, power wise, despite the 10x disparity between the DS and PSP.


That had absolutely nothing to do with power. DS was already in a very stable position with no other competitor. It was also backwards compatible with how many games? Not only could you play DS games, but every GB Advanced game.

PSP started with a small handful of games, then PS1/PS2 ports. So you were stuck playing a few games or repurchase games you probably already own for a different system.

quote:
The only thing that would stop it is UI, as you allude.


The UI is hardly the only thing. Here's the biggest thing that will stop a lot of games from coming. You ready? I'll even capslock it and put it in bold. OSX IS A PIECE OF SHIT GAMING OS!!!

If Apple can't even get games on their desktop OS, what makes you think they'll get games on a portable version of the same OS?


By UNCjigga on 11/17/2008 12:03:14 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
Here's the biggest thing that will stop a lot of games from coming. You ready? I'll even capslock it and put it in bold. OSX IS A PIECE OF SHIT GAMING OS!!!
LOL, so afkrotch is basically saying the iPhone will fail as a gaming platform because A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT APPLE PLATFORM sucks for gaming? Your ready for this? I'll caps lock it and put it in bold. YOUR ARGUMENT IS EFFING WORTHLESS! Next.


By mydogfarted on 11/19/2008 11:46:06 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
OSX IS A PIECE OF SHIT GAMING OS!!!


I dunno, recent games like Quake, Doom, Civ, all seem to play very well on OS X with my first generation MacBook Pro. Heck, I'm pretty sure with VMWare Fusion's DX9 support, I could probably run Win XP games in a window on OS X.

YMMV, but hey, what do I know? I'm just talking from experience.


By Gzus666 on 11/13/2008 2:38:33 PM , Rating: 2
Yet the DS has one thing the iPhone doesn't...face buttons. Wii also has face buttons, that is the reason why all the high rated games are actually high rated, cause they don't rely solely on a silly gimmick. Would anyone want to try to play a Zelda, Mario, Metroid or SSB without face buttons?

What a joke. Like all the fanboys that have come before you, you will defend it up and down.


By Hiawa23 on 11/13/2008 6:41:36 PM , Rating: 1
There is noway the Iphone is as powerful as the PSP, but if it is great, I am fine with the PSP. Not into the Kiddie DS, or it's terrible 3-d rendering capabilities, so if Apple pull it off, more power to em, but I am fine with the PSP, & definitely wouldn't buy a phone to play games.


By afkrotch on 11/14/2008 7:04:14 AM , Rating: 3
quote:
Um, we aren't talking about hardcore Starcraft players, we're talking about the general public who wants to play a five minute pickup game. Control interfaces will be simplified, unit counts will be reduced, mapsizes limited, and simplicity increased.


In other words turn an RTS into not so much an RTS. What's it gonna be? 1 tank vs 1 enemy tank, shooting at each other or their one single building each?

You want to know what would be best for gaming on an iPhone? Flash games. You know, that thing that Apple decided to omit when the iPhone came out.

Knowing Apple though, they'd just sue every flash game designed for iPhone use, without going through their offices.


By Gzus666 on 11/13/2008 2:19:21 PM , Rating: 2
You just laid out the most painfully bad gaming line I have ever seen. That would be horrid to play all of them. RTS would be horrid trying to fit all the needed shortcuts for buildings, attacks, etc. even on the full screen let alone part of the screen. Micromanagement would be a complete nightmare.

Resident Evil would be the worst game ever made for a portable system on there. How would you aim? Touch? That is really easy to see what is next to hit. It would end up having to be like the old point and click action games where everything would play through with one click.

It is a terrible idea, touching everything with your finger for games is not an option. The tilting crap also only goes so far.


RE: Jobba the Steve, what won't you say?
By omnicronx on 11/13/2008 1:15:44 PM , Rating: 2
I totally agree, no buttons means they will have a limited audience. I am not saying current iPhone users won't download these games, but it is not going to be a PSP or DS replacement.


RE: Jobba the Steve, what won't you say?
By michael2k on 11/13/2008 1:23:40 PM , Rating: 1
This reminds me of the Wii, two years ago.

The iPhone totally opens up new markets (people who might not otherwise game) and taps existing markets (people who like iPods and people who don't like existing smartphones).


RE: Jobba the Steve, what won't you say?
By 306maxi on 11/13/2008 1:29:10 PM , Rating: 5
How so?

The Wii was innovative in so many ways.

The iPhone is a decent phone by all accounts but it doesn't exactly offer anything that wasn't offered before....


RE: Jobba the Steve, what won't you say?
By michael2k on 11/13/08, Rating: 0
By TheSpaniard on 11/13/2008 5:49:52 PM , Rating: 2
what are you talking about?

I can't speak to the DS but the PSP...

1:ever heard of the PSN? accessible directly from the PSP and can download many games (even those available previously only on UMDs)

2:what is this 1.8 GB minimum? what about the 4 8 and 16 GB cards? interchangable I might add so technically limitless

3: um lets do all things half-ass or some things well...

4: um MS PRO DUO and SKYPE (Wireless b) (got me on the bluetooth and 3G those should have been implemented in PSP-3000)

PS: cell phone games have always failed N-Gage anyone? but here is hoping that the iPhone creates an incentive for PSP2 to have some better features (mentioned in 4)


RE: Jobba the Steve, what won't you say?
By Ard on 11/13/2008 7:50:36 PM , Rating: 2
The only thing people underestimated about the Wii is the general ineptitude of the people buying it. The console is still a gimmick and a fad/impulse buy, which is why it continues to sell. Everyone and their mom has to have one just to say they have one. Sales are not indicative of a good product. You need look no further than shit like 50 Cent: Bulletproof. 90% of the titles on that system are garbage/throwaway games. There is a reason why the majority of Wii owners out there rarely use the damn thing: the gems worth owning are few and far between and Nintendo certainly doesn't give a damn about producing them. They'd rather convince you that you need to buy Wii Fit and a pointless controller shell that looks like a Wii or a gun.

I can give Nintendo credit for coming up with a new control scheme, but the problem with it is that it only works well in a handful of games, namely 1st party games. Moreover, the motion functionality is still limited compared to what you can do with a standard controller, case in point: fighting games which try to incorporation motion control for special moves.

That said, the iPhone is even more limited and will never be capable of being a true gaming device. You have an accelerometer and the ability to touch the screen. That's it. The accelerometer function isn't going to do much for you since you kinda need to see the screen, and the limited amount of real estate is going to prevent you from doing much touch wise. Couple the weak control scheme with Apple's Nazi like approval process and you'll never see any real games on the iPhone. Jobs/Apple are on crack if they think it's going to displace the DS/PSP and their successors. Sorry, Steve, Carmack got it right the first time.


RE: Jobba the Steve, what won't you say?
By Gzus666 on 11/13/2008 7:54:37 PM , Rating: 2
HAHAHA!!! This is so right it hurts. Even better, if you want to see how "great" the Wii is, look no further than any review site for the greatness that is the shovelware for the Wii. I expect similar things with the iPhone.

Everyone I talk to with a Wii that is over 10 doesn't use it anymore or hasn't touched it in months. Almost like they bought it as a fad/gimmick and then they realized it was boring with no games...who would have guessed?


RE: Jobba the Steve, what won't you say?
By afkrotch on 11/14/2008 8:21:05 AM , Rating: 2
Everyone I know who has a Wii, also have a 360 or PS3. The Wii ends up collecting dust. That or sent home to little loved ones. You know, the ones who are 10.

I was thinking of getting one for my nieces and nephews, but the price is total crap. Now they are playing a 360 Arcade.


By robinthakur on 11/17/2008 9:04:51 AM , Rating: 2
Is that why the sales figures have run rings (Red rings no less lol) around the 360 and the PS3? Understand that not everyone acts like you and your mates, and you might understand why. Alot of people are put off video games by the complexity, even the look of a dual shock 3 can be intimidating to somebody who isn't of the last few generations.

As a gamer, part of me is irked that 'non-gaming' as I see it is becoming so big. I admit, i never would have given mobile games the time of day a few years ago. Even now I have all three consoles and a gaming pc but rarely have time to play them. The one time I have free time is my commute and I don't bring my lite with me (sold the PSP ages ago as its lovely hardware, but with rubbish non-existant games library and a joypad not made for fighting games) so I play iPhone games.

They are simple but things like missile command etc work really really well and its clear that the iPhone interface suits some games, operhaps better than their old input methods. Those that bash touch screens similarly have likely not tried a capacitative touch screen as they actually work as you would wish rather than the old rubbish ones, with a surprising degree of precision. You could do turn based combat on the iPhone (FF7 please, Square Exnix), and so far I'm impressed by the 3d graphics capability, regardless of whether OSX is apparently crap for games on the desktop or not. Apple's latest iPod Touch ad even concentrates mainly on gaming.

The volume of games and apps available through the app store is staggering and I can't imagine this not being a big success. It will irk traditional gamers, but i'm afraid that the writing is on the wall and casual gaming is definitely where its at in the future. If nothing else, this generation of full consoles has revealed that the market for games in general is huge, but the market for powerful HD hardcore games is relatively much smaller. Look at the ds versus psp or the wii versus PS3. Games for the former cost much less to develop than games for the latter and if they outsell them, what is the incentive for the developers?

You need to realise that the market is there, the games are really easy to distribute through app store instantly (with non-intrusive DRM) and the price is low enough to be an impulse purchase. How can this fail? Certainly, publishers will see that its in their best interests to support it and the industry will move from there. You will still have that proper gaming niche but the real money will gradually migrate away from it.


By afkrotch on 11/14/2008 8:16:04 AM , Rating: 2
1). PSP connects to Playstation Network via any wireless connection. DSi connects to Wii Shop Channel via wireless. I wouldn't want to download games any other way, unless you like having a large phone bill. Just look at AT&T's data plans. $35 for 4 meg each month or $60 for 5 gb per month. That's to add onto your cellphone plan.

2). PSP/DS both have memory slots. iPhone does not. Also why is the iPod touch's 32 gb listed as an advantage for the iPhone? iPhone, max 16 gb. PSP, 4 gb per stick, unlimited number of sticks you can afford. At least the 1000 models only supported up to 4 gb sticks. The 2000 or 3000 models could be higher. The DSi supports SDHC. Not sure on it's limitation, but SDHC goes up to 32 gb. So carry 6, beats anything the iPhone or iPod (old or new) has to offer.

3). And zero buttons on iPhone. Also both DS/PSP can have attachments for expanded useability.

4.) Again, both DS/PSP can have attachments for expanded useability.

PSP - GPS, camera, microphone, and 1seg TV attachments.
DSi - 2 cameras, microphone, 1seg, gps, mic

It's not impossible to add 3G or bluetooth to either. No point in doing it, as they aren't phones.


RE: Jobba the Steve, what won't you say?
By benx009 on 11/13/2008 2:34:00 PM , Rating: 2
The iPhone isn't innovative? Really? Because the way I see things, it's changed everything. The touch screen interface is so much better than on any other mobile device out there. The accelerometer is definitely something that was never offered before on any cell phone/mp3 player/portable gaming system. All developers have to do is learn how to create good stuff for this new interface. Tap Tap Revenge is just the start of it. I could easily see an FPS (i.e. first person shooter) like Doom coming to the iPhone, and it actually being good, as long as it retains a good FPS (i.e. frames per second).

No matter which side you're on, you can't deny the fact that the Apple App Store provides a very lucrative market for gaming developers...


RE: Jobba the Steve, what won't you say?
By 306maxi on 11/13/2008 4:45:11 PM , Rating: 2
You do realise that the N95 had an acclerometer well before the iPhone had one don't you?


By Gzus666 on 11/13/2008 4:53:42 PM , Rating: 2
Even better, tons of phones and other devices had touch screens well before the iPhone as well. That guy is an idiot.


By omnicronx on 11/13/2008 2:01:25 PM , Rating: 2
But its not even close to the wii, you don't need to use buttons in order to have a good gaming experience. You can do everything you can do with a normal controller with a wii controller with a little imagination and it does have a limited amount of buttons. The same can't be said for the iphone, you can touch, and use the accelerometer for simple movement, and that's about it. I am not saying it won't be successful, I am sure many people are willing to shell out money for that kind of game, but its not a replacement for handhelds.


RE: Jobba the Steve, what won't you say?
By afkrotch on 11/14/2008 7:42:25 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
The iPhone totally opens up new markets (people who might not otherwise game) and taps existing markets (people who like iPods and people who don't like existing smartphones).


huh? What new market is this you are talking about? Pretty sure gamers aren't thinking,"Well, DS....PSP. I won't want either for gaming. I want an iPhone."

Ppl aren't buying the iPhone to play their music on. If they wanted that, they'd buy iPods. Ppl buy the iPhone to be used as a smartphone. That or are just Apple zealots.

iPhone isn't opening up any new markets. Other cellphones have games. Mp3 players have games. PMPs have games. How many ppl do you see playing games on thier cellphone for hours at a time? Me...I have seen none. I have yet to see a single person buy more than the games that were available on their cellphone. They buy their cellphone for just that. A phone.

My last cellphone came with a bomb game and Final Fantasy. I only played the bomb game like 2-3 mins at a time and even then that was only like 5-6 times in a year. My current phone I deleted the games to make space to take photos.

I don't expect this to go far. Only time ppl would be playing games is between Point A to Point B. Once at your destination, you're busy doing whatever it is you went to Point B for. Westerners usually leave their gaming at home or minor flash games on work comps.

This might work out for the Japanese market, if it weren't for the iPhone failing in Japan. There the iPhone can't even compete with a $50 phone in terms of features.


By UNCjigga on 11/17/2008 12:19:17 PM , Rating: 2
The iPhone cannot be compared to other phones when it comes to gaming. Other than Nokia's semi-failed NGage platform, gaming on other phones sucks. You have smaller screens, limited resolution, and horrible framerates and response time. Also, you don't have the large library of QUALITY free games like the iPhone has. That's why gaming on other phones isn't very popular.

Also, when talking about the iPhone gaming market, you cannot ignore the iPod touch. People might not buy an iPhone for music or games if they are happy with their current phone/carrier. But they can still buy an iPod touch. In fact, they are much more likely to buy an iPod touch for music and videos and discover gaming as an added benefit (opening a new market for people who don't want a dedicated portable gaming device!)

Also, a note on why the iPhone is failing in Japan. You must realize that the portable device market is much more competitive in Japan--the iPhone isn't as "advanced" compared to the Japanese competition. In order to compete in Japan, the iPhone needs a MUCH better camera (5mp+ with optical zoom, autofocus and video recording) and a 1-seg TV tuner. I saw recently that an OEM came out with a 1-seg addon for the iPhone.


By HrilL on 11/13/2008 2:25:11 PM , Rating: 2
They already have a lot of games that are not in the app store if you jail break your phone. Quake is one of them. They just put buttons on the screen to touch. It is that easy. And you can play multiplayer with WiFi on. Gaming on the iPhone is a no brainier. The only real limitation is the battery life that the phone has. It can't play graphic intensive games for very long maybe 5-6 hours at best. And you’ll still want to use it as a phone that battery doesn’t last all that long alone if you have WiFi, 3G and the GPS turned on. If you listen to music do some light browsing with those three on you are lucky to get 6-9 hours out of it without gaming or making any calls. The simple fact is the battery just doesn’t have enough power to act as an all in media/phone device.


By Pavelyoung on 11/13/2008 9:55:01 PM , Rating: 2
The sad thing is that they are willing to make games available for their phone but not their computers. Thats just freakin pathetic


RE: Jobba the Steve, what won't you say?
By fibreoptik on 11/14/2008 11:09:25 AM , Rating: 2
There are many RTS that would be just fine on the iPhone... Lots of RPGs could adapt nicely as well.

All that is required is a bit of creativity and enthusiasm on the developer's part and maybe some open-mindedness on the user's part.

If John Carmack can develop something cool for it, the flood gates will be flung WIDE OPEN.


RE: Jobba the Steve, what won't you say?
By Gzus666 on 11/14/2008 11:12:26 AM , Rating: 2
No, there isn't, that is the point. There would be some dumbed down garbage RTS that could be made, but that is it.


RE: Jobba the Steve, what won't you say?
By fibreoptik on 11/14/2008 12:10:10 PM , Rating: 2
Yes there is. Ever heard of Advanced Wars? or FF Tactics? Both immensely popular titles and they could easily be adapted to the multi-touch interface.

Take off those blinders and be a little more open-minded! :p


By Gzus666 on 11/14/2008 12:12:12 PM , Rating: 2
You do realize that the RT in RTS stands for Real Time, right? Thanks for playing, Bob, tell him what he's won.


Younger Crowd
By brianmack on 11/13/2008 5:45:18 PM , Rating: 2
Developing more games for the iPhone will add to the competition in the market. Hopefully we will all benefit.

My issue is with one of the target markets of the DS. My son is in preschool and already many of his friends have a PSP or DS. Is the iPhone going to satisfy the 10 and under set? Think of the differences in the target demographics of Guitar Hero/Rock Band and Wii Music.

I know there are plenty of parents that will buy their kids whatever electronics they ask for, but one of the great things about the current generation of mobile game systems is that parents can control kids access to online content. That, and they don't have to pay for data plans to keep the damn thing active.




RE: Younger Crowd
By michael2k on 11/13/2008 7:27:45 PM , Rating: 2
My two year old loves my iPhone. What is the problem you see?

The only issues are price and data plans, but I suspect that by the time she turns 10, both will be moot: free with contract and no additional charge for data will probably rule the roost (see how DSL prices have been dropping the last 10 years).


RE: Younger Crowd
By Gzus666 on 11/13/2008 7:50:13 PM , Rating: 2
If you are still buying an iPhone that is free with contract in 8 years, you are completely stupid. In 8 years, I wouldn't be surprised if this: http://www.nokia.com/A4136001?newsid=1194251 is out by then and the iPhone looks like a sad child's toy, as you seemed to have already pointed out.

Your 2 year old loves the iPhone? No way? The same age group that enjoys jingling keys, playing with child safe toys and drooling on things. Makes sense that a creature with the equivalent brain capacity of a dog or a chimp loves something Apple made so much. Also makes sense why Apple lovers are the way they are...


RE: Younger Crowd
By michael2k on 11/14/2008 12:56:51 PM , Rating: 2
Who peed in your cheerios?

My two year old also likes pretending to drive the car (I assume you enjoy doing that too), which really means you are underestimating children. By two they are functionally capable human beings (at least at your level).

It's the 6 month olds that enjoy jingling keys, child safe toys, and drooling on things. They stop drooling at 1, and have figured out how to use the key in the lock if you let them by two.

Anyway, we will see how this plays out. The last time this happened, the iPod crushed Creative, pushed PlaysForSure into niche territory, and forced Microsoft to create their own hardware to keep up. If this plays out the same way, Nokia will have a nice healthy 25% market share, Motorola and Palm will have died, and Microsoft will buy RIM in order to make their own WinMo+Blackberry phone and will have a distant 9% of the market.

I mean, do you seriously thing the iPhone in 8 years will be the same as the iPhone today? The iPod today is the iPod touch, compared to the iPod of 2001, which is much more like the current iPod nano.


RE: Younger Crowd
By afkrotch on 11/14/2008 1:32:18 PM , Rating: 2
Standard losing battle strategy. If you can't win, insult.


RE: Younger Crowd
By michael2k on 11/14/2008 2:53:22 PM , Rating: 2
I know, isn't he horrid?

quote:
The same age group that enjoys jingling keys, playing with child safe toys and drooling on things. Makes sense that a creature with the equivalent brain capacity of a dog or a chimp loves something Apple made so much. Also makes sense why Apple lovers are the way they are...


RE: Younger Crowd
By Gzus666 on 11/14/2008 2:14:55 PM , Rating: 2
So, the child has surpassed the intelligence of a dog and proceeded to chimp, I gave 2 options. I'm sure your kid loves the iPhone not because of it's shiny lights and moving pictures, but because of all the features.

Anyway, I doubt the iPhone will be innovated much until someone else smokes them badly, which will probably come soon enough. You might have noticed by the fact that they re-released the same damn phone only with slight differences as a brand new model. I have a feeling even then, Apple has very little left in their bag o' tricks.


RE: Younger Crowd
By michael2k on 11/14/2008 2:35:30 PM , Rating: 2
She likes watching videos on YouTube, the movies of her and her brother from the iPod app, typing in the note taking app, looking at pictures... hey, the same reason most adults like the iPod or iPhone too!

I mean, PEOPLE like shiny toys, and movies, and pictures, and music. That is almost the whole reason the iPod has been so successful in the first place.

Um, what do you think the iPod was for the last seven years except, "the same damn iPod with slight differences as a brand new model"? They up storage, make it thinner, increase battery life, and add one or two new features. It's worked for seven years until they released the iPhone and iPod touch.

Why do you think it won't work here? Is Samsung, Sony, Nokia, Motorola, and HTC somehow more capable now than Creative, Sony, Toshiba, Cowon, or Archos?


RE: Younger Crowd
By Gzus666 on 11/14/2008 3:02:47 PM , Rating: 2
I believe you have just effectively insulted anyone who does these things as being on the same level as a 2 year old, classic. I forgot how silly people with kids get, they think they take any simple thing as some miraculous ability and how smart they are. I really do see why you use Apple products and why your kid will do the same.


RE: Younger Crowd
By michael2k on 11/14/2008 3:13:49 PM , Rating: 2
No, I think you are misunderstanding children.

1) The average IQ is about 100. Which actually translates to a lot of stupid people. That only 10% of the US population uses Macs means they are REALLY stupid, because they really shouldn't be using computers at all. They probably should be using something as simple and simplified as a Mac, but they are easily fooled by smarter people, by salesmen, and their own egos into buying PCs.

2) A child is more or less intellectually complete by 3. They just don't have the emotional experience or control, or sufficient exposure to information to be adult. It's not an insult to compare someone to a two year old, unless that two year old is retarded. At 2.5 she has already figured out how to turn on/off a TV, DVD player, and lights, can open and close the fridge, do laundry, brush her teeth, turn on an iPhone, answer the phone, give me the phone when she doesn't want to talk, open doors, lock doors, etc. The only thing left, essentially, is for her to learn how to read. Once she figures out how to read she can learn just about anything she wants without asking us to show her.

Which is besides the point. You think 2 year olds are stupid, and I don't. I hope your kids get better treatment than you give me.


RE: Younger Crowd
By Gzus666 on 11/14/2008 3:25:58 PM , Rating: 2
I don't plan on having kids, figure at 26 and I still haven't had a kid, I'm doing well on that goal. I didn't say 2 year olds were stupid, just that they are not intellectually formed in any way at that point. By that comment, you effectively called chimps stupid. Chimps also respond to colors, can turn things on, learn basic things, could easily turn on a phone, etc., which means my comparison makes sense.

Also, how does one simplify a Mac any further? Short of the computer having pictures for everything...oh wait, that is there. I can't really think how one would dumb down OSX further, as it is already for the lowest common denominator.


RE: Younger Crowd
By michael2k on 11/14/2008 4:22:00 PM , Rating: 2
If you aren't calling 2 year olds stupid, why do you think I am calling people stupid by comparing them to 2 year olds?

quote:
I believe you have just effectively insulted anyone who does these things as being on the same level as a 2 year old, classic.


Two year olds ARE nearly completely intellectually formed. Just hang out with a two year old and watch them for a couple days. They really only lack experience, strength, and size to make them capable adults.


RE: Younger Crowd
By Gzus666 on 11/14/2008 4:31:52 PM , Rating: 2
Yea, I will just get all my 2 year old friends and have them over so I can study their behavior.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5180799/

It would appear my comparison of dog to 2 year old was giving a bit of undue credit, seems it is 3 year old.


RE: Younger Crowd
By michael2k on 11/14/2008 5:01:25 PM , Rating: 2
Really that just means most adults operate at a three year old level.


RE: Younger Crowd
By Gzus666 on 11/14/2008 5:12:19 PM , Rating: 2
"Really that just means most adults operate at a three year old level."

I believe that is reserved for yourself. Most of my day is filled with things beyond that of a dog, unless you really think it is a massive accomplishment for yourself when you do things equivalently as well. Even when I veg out to play games, I still do it on a system that requires more than dog level skills, just to swing it all back to the topic.


RE: Younger Crowd
By michael2k on 11/14/2008 5:44:28 PM , Rating: 2
The dog you linked to was an exceptional dog, by the way.

In any case, my two year old already has a vocabulary greater than 200 words, even if her mouth is unable to form a word more complex than "bananna". As I said before, that is a practice issue.

I am surprised if your day is filled with things beyond that of a dog, unless you consider insults somehow to be intelligent. You sound considerably more juvenile, even if your speech dresses it up a bit.


RE: Younger Crowd
By Gzus666 on 11/14/2008 7:36:05 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I am surprised if your day is filled with things beyond that of a dog, unless you consider insults somehow to be intelligent. You sound considerably more juvenile, even if your speech dresses it up a bit.


In other words "I have no retort, so I will resort to calling you juvenile", classic. Hey, while your at it, maybe you can go tell people more about a clock speed being faster than another, which apparently makes it better. What other fun things can you remark about to show that you have literally no clue as to how they work?


RE: Younger Crowd
By michael2k on 11/14/2008 8:38:58 PM , Rating: 2
No, any retort would be juvenile. I'm just being honest, take that as you want.

Discount me as much as you want, it is history that will be the true measurement. You can discount my metrics, but history has already shown me right; the original pentium at merely 100MHz could run Doom and Quake; the iPhone CPU and GPU handily outclass that. Games are always designed around input mechanisms and there exist plenty of DS games that show the capability of a touchscreen for gaming.

Even your comment about clockspeed only illustrates your lack of comprehension, not my lack of information. I can reiterate, but I doubt you would understand it any better:
An iPhone has literally 12x the CPU power and 6x the GPU power of a Nintendo DS since they are the same architecture, an apples to apples comparison.

The iPhone suffers from OS overhead and the like, but that doesn't swallow up more than 10% of the iPhone's CPU because there are no background processes. There is no antivirus, no indexer, no task scheduler, nothing in the background except Apple's default programs: voice, push email, and SMS, all of which use the same radio software. This can be measured with existing programs. Additionally an iPhone has 128MB RAM and uses the standard OpenGL library.

Essentially my argument is simple: The iPhone is powerful ENOUGH. That is what the Wii taught us, fun games trump anything else, and with the iPhone's specs we have something probably comparable to a Dreamcast (200MHz SH-4 chipset, PowerVR GPU), and was stated as such by Sega:
http://kotaku.com/5026060/sega-the-iphone-is-as-po...

So we have plenty of power, plenty of users (over 10m already), plenty of developers, and already plenty of games (though many are cheap and worthless, this isn't different than the Wii)

My biggest point is that by ignoring the iPhone you are underestimating it. All it takes is Will Wright, Square-Enix, Sid Meier, and Sega to turn the platform serious. Oh wait, Will Wright is already targeting Spore and Square Enix already has a Tower game in development, and Sega has Monkey Ball.

But you can keep ignoring it. Plenty of people on these boards think Mac, iPhone, and iPod are fads or short lived products... and so far they haven't been.


RE: Younger Crowd
By Shmak on 11/14/2008 11:12:08 PM , Rating: 2
I'm glad you are not breeding Gzus666, intentional or not.


funniest article I've read this week
By The0ne on 11/13/2008 12:08:32 PM , Rating: 1
iPhone to replace DS and PSP. If anything it's laughable. "Silky 3D" compared to DS and PSP O.o I say someone's got a foot up their you know what to be saying this. iPhone will get games for sure but will most likely not be on par with what DS and PSP has to offer, especially when lacking controls and buttons. You can't get the quick responsiveness of certain games but emulating a control/joystick. Plus, using your fingers for a long period of time will certainly do you now good :) Yes, holding a controller or a system in your hands will do the same...but not for quite some time.




RE: funniest article I've read this week
By bhieb on 11/13/2008 12:54:34 PM , Rating: 2
All good points for a gamer. But the article is more about stealing market share. I assure you my wife and daughter could care less about anything you said, they want a fun to play game as do many of the masses.

Your argument is no different that the Wii sucks cause it's graphics suck and it is not as good as the 360 and PS3. We've seen who won that argument, you do not need to be a gamer's gaming device to have significant impact on the market.


By The0ne on 11/13/2008 4:19:59 PM , Rating: 2
And I can assure you, wait let Nintendo do that for you, that controls and buttons including a pretty fast response time with the remote makes for a fun time on the Wii. You agreed yourself. However, I'm not sure why you even claim that Wii is not a game system in the first place. Wii IS a game system, from the very start. Its hardware and software were made for gaming whether or not the direction the company wants to take with it changes.

This brings up a point that's already been made. You can compare the hardware but ultimately the OS is going to bog down the hardware to some extent because it wasn't optimized to run just games. Therefore this is not a apples to apples comparison even though they want some of the hand-held gaming market share.

My point is that iPhone will get it's share of games but it will most likely not be able to compete competitively with the same game used on the DS or PSP. Granted they have the large user base to leech off of and this is where your market share will come about. How this is going to work and work effectively as a gaming device is yet to be seen. At this point it seems developers are limited to what they can do with a device that has no buttons and controls. And with this you're going to have to rely purely on emulating them. Emulating as you may or may not know can slow things down.

People listing hardware specs, especially for the ARMs processors probably have not had experience programming with them. All they understand, as in the PC world, is that higher numbers means better without any regards to the circuitry and software that wraps around it.


RE: funniest article I've read this week
By michael2k on 11/13/08, Rating: 0
RE: funniest article I've read this week
By Denigrate on 11/13/2008 1:34:34 PM , Rating: 2
Except that iPhone has fixed storage/battery and no buttons.


RE: funniest article I've read this week
By michael2k on 11/13/2008 2:15:30 PM , Rating: 2
You're complaining about fixed storage when the iPhone has the capability of downloading new games on the fly, deleting games on the fly, and backing up files on your PC?

That's like saying, "An iPod has fixed storage while a CD player has expanansion via CDs"

The iPod's fixed storage is significantly more capable than the storage available in a UMD or cartridge.

The battery issue is also not an issue (I have an iPhone and use it literally all day, can be charged via USB, in a car, at home, etc, and can be supplemented with battery packs), and the buttons just mean the game designer has to utilize smart UI designs instead.


By afkrotch on 11/14/2008 8:40:24 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
The iPod's fixed storage is significantly more capable than the storage available in a UMD or cartridge.


Ya, let's just leave out the memory sticks for both the PSP and DS. You know, those ones that max out at 16 gig (PSP) or 32 gig (DSi).


RE: funniest article I've read this week
By The0ne on 11/13/2008 4:24:54 PM , Rating: 2
to others reading my previous post...see what I mean. This person probably has no clue because all he cares about is the speed of the processors. To him that mean iphone reign supreme in all matters, gaming or not.


By Gzus666 on 11/13/2008 4:39:23 PM , Rating: 2
Don't worry, most people know that he is a Apple lover with blinders on. They can do no wrong and any idea Jobba has is the best thing since sliced bread.

He can't be bothered with things like operating system overhead and background programs for the phone to function as a phone. It has bigger numbers than something else, clearly superior.


RE: funniest article I've read this week
By michael2k on 11/13/2008 4:45:08 PM , Rating: 2
I think you misunderstand me, and quite seriously. The CPU speed isn't the determinant of game quality, the CPU speed merely underlines the baseline limits in terms of capability. In other words, you can implement Kirby's Canvas Curse on the iPhone because the CPU/GPU hardware is not a limitation.

It isn't about CPU/GPU making the iPhone reign supreme, not even close. The game distribution method (the iTunes store) makes it extremely easy for a user to get new games, that is an advantage. The game distribution scheme makes it extremely profitable for developers (70% cut per game), which encourages developers. The presence of a touchscreen, accelerometer, camera, and light sensor provide for unique UI and capabilities comparable to a DS or a Wii, and that is another advantage.

There, is that more clear?


RE: funniest article I've read this week
By Gzus666 on 11/13/2008 4:56:45 PM , Rating: 2
You still don't acknowledge that the OS is not optimized by any stretch of the imagination for running games like the DS and PSP and all other gaming machines. iPhone has a lot to run besides just games, which will kill performance. A small increase in processing power wouldn't make up for this.


RE: funniest article I've read this week
By michael2k on 11/13/2008 5:57:51 PM , Rating: 2
You are right, but at the same time there are other benchmarks that show my perspective is more or less correct. Final Fantasy 7 for PC was a port from the PSX and was able to run on a PC with 133MHz Pentium, recommended 200MHz Pentium, with 8MB graphics and 3D acceleration.

Now I can't compare the ARM to the Pentium, but here we compare a 200MHz Pentium to a 33MHz MIPS on the Playstation with integrated GPU capabilities. This is roughly a 6x increase in CPU and GPU to allow a 2x increase in resolution and graphics.

In that same vein then, a iPhone has 12x more CPU and 6x more GPU than a DS, which means it has enough power to capably generate DS style performance. And the proof is in the pudding, as Super Monkey Ball for the iPhone says it is at least capable of GameCube quality graphics and gameplay.

Or I can give you feedback from people who do develop for the iPhone:
http://www.pocketgamer.biz/r/Various/iPhone+news/n...

Sega and EA are taking the market seriously due to it's size, strength, and profitability. Games already exist that comfortably take advantage of the hardare.

Your arguments are, essentially, like arguing Windows would never allow an environment where games can be run because the OS chews up too many resources!


RE: funniest article I've read this week
By Gzus666 on 11/13/2008 7:12:01 PM , Rating: 2
Now you are trying to compare X86 to RISC processors. You really are just throwing things out there now. There is a reason RISC was used more in super computers and small devices while X86 was used in anything that needed to run multiple applications quickly. RISC excels at pounding out single operations, X86 has always excelled at multitasking. X86 is even progressing past RISC for this thanks to all the new innovations.

The fact that you keep spouting stupid crap like "12X the power" and "2X blah blah" tells me you really don't understand what a difference the architecture makes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARM_architecture
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIPS_architecture (PSP)

Even in the ARM family with the same model family, the instruction set has changed between models and their use. On top of that you get into how the OS uses these processors, which as stated, the portable game units will do much more efficiently for games. It is more than clear you are a Mactard as they are affectionately known. I have yet to meet anyone who likes Apple that knows jack about anything remotely resembling a computer.

If you expect to enjoy PS1 quality games, enjoy my friend. The iPhone still has to run things in the background, you know, be a phone. PSP, DS, any other gaming product do not. Welcome to why RISC works so well on them for their intended purpose. That flashy UI is going to end up being the Achilles Heel of their gaming attempt.

Sega and EA are taking it seriously cause they want money, no matter what BS they spout to the press. They can port their old crappy games with minimal effort and sell them for $15-20 without issue, that is why they want to develop for it. No way, the game industry will make games for damn near anything popular? Who would have guessed?

People who develop for the iPhone say it is a great platform for selling games? NO WAY!!?? Who would have thought, once again, they want to sell in any market, especially one where old games can be ported and sold for ridiculous markups?


By The0ne on 11/14/2008 10:41:51 AM , Rating: 2
Well said.


By afkrotch on 11/14/2008 8:51:33 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
The game distribution method (the iTunes store) makes it extremely easy for a user to get new games, that is an advantage.


Advantage negated.

PSP - Playstation Network
DSi - Wii Shop Channel

quote:
The game distribution scheme makes it extremely profitable for developers (70% cut per game), which encourages developers.


Not really. They'd have to port their games to an OS that hardly any of the world uses. That or completely create new games. Not to mention another wasted amount of time trying to figure out a control scheme for those games.

More times than not, they'd probably end up in the red for games.

quote:
The presence of a touchscreen, accelerometer, camera, and light sensor provide for unique UI and capabilities comparable to a DS or a Wii, and that is another advantage.


That's more of a disadvantage than an advantage. Without classic input devices you're alienating your the customer base you're trying to gain.

There are reasons why things like touchscreen keyboards, light keyboards, etc have failed. Users like tactile inputs.


Great
By Denigrate on 11/13/2008 11:53:28 AM , Rating: 2
When does the iPhone start supporting flash?




RE: Great
By bhieb on 11/13/2008 12:48:08 PM , Rating: 2
I think that may be more difficult than you think. One reason why the iphone is so fluid is the way it allocates resources to the running app. 2 applications cannot be running at the same time. When you go from pictures to home it completely closes the prev app. Now with flash you have safari open and you are asking the OS to open a background program, which it is fundamentally designed not to do.

I have not programmed in years, but from what I've read that is the biggest hurdle. Plus licensing and apple does not like to do that much either :)


RE: Great
By Denigrate on 11/13/2008 1:31:05 PM , Rating: 2
Still not a complete product without Flash support. Far too much content on the Web that uses flash that iPhone/Touch users are locked out of using.


RE: Great
By bhieb on 11/13/2008 1:48:07 PM , Rating: 2
Agreed, but I don't think it is quite as easy as just licensing the product and installing it. I think it would require a paradigm shift of the way the OS operates.


RE: Great
By bkslopper on 11/14/2008 12:05:32 AM , Rating: 2
Probably never. I figure alot there's alot of free flash-based games out there. Now Apple wants to tout its phone as a gaming device. Free Flash games off the net would be competition for their Ap Store games.


RE: Great
By michael2k on 11/14/2008 1:20:20 PM , Rating: 2
Probably when Flash stops sucking so much?

As an iPhone owner, I don't miss it at all. If they implement it like the YouTube channel, I wouldn't mind having it at all.

I would prefer not to have flash ads and banners sucking up battery and CPU.


Games are the future of Extra Revenue.
By snownpaint on 11/13/2008 3:48:13 PM , Rating: 2
I guess there are too many stuck-in-your-way people on this forum. Video Games are going to grow into the next Hollywood industry and American is so far behind in what is offered over the cell phones, I'm not surprised many can't see the writing on the wall.

You will see simple games like "world of Goo", Little Big Planet, Scrolling shooters, WOF, word games, Brain Exercising, old classics, and such grow into cell phone games. Big Screen Phones are primed for this, and as the processor increase your ported games will roll in..

Remember, in less then 10 years, our 8 - 10 year old video game monsters are going to grow up, be working, buying toys and new gadgets. At 30 years old I was part of the Atari, NES, SNES, PS, etc market. To this day I'm still very much into video games and will continue to be so till I die. These kids today are even more engrossed in gaming.. What do you think will happen when they turn 20 and have the disposable cash? What do you they think they will turn to to occupy their waiting time, with hot cell phones in their pocket?

We read on this site every other day about smaller, fast, power effecent chips. Cell phones have large screens, some bigger then a PSP. Mini-USB Controller can be made and sold with the correct placement of the port on the next IPhone. Cell phones can commuicate with other cell phones, linking games and players.. Imagine, that you can play a chess game waiting for the plane against someone else next to you, or your friend in Singapore. That could be possible in one year, with out any hardware modification.

People spend $0.99 for a ring tone, or $4.99 for a game now.. Imagine the gaming side of Cell Phones is set up like the "Steam" platform, updating, downloading, and installing games you own when you switch phones or providers. $16.99 wouldn't be unheard of for a game you own forever, maybe even install yourself (SD card) at the airport kiosk.




RE: Games are the future of Extra Revenue.
By afkrotch on 11/14/2008 9:00:32 AM , Rating: 2
Who said we don't expect more games to hit the cellphones? We just don't expect games to do well with nothing more than a touchscreen an accelometer.

Well, except for michael2k. He seems unable to get his lips off Apple's teats.


RE: Games are the future of Extra Revenue.
By snownpaint on 11/14/2008 10:11:44 AM , Rating: 2
So you are saying that this years cell phones, that are aiming currently at QWERTY keyboards in them for texting, are not going to change to fit these gamers and their games.. Does everyone realize that all it takes is two well placed mini-USB ports to allow two Analog Joysticks to be attached to the phone. BOOM I have a controller, and it is an accessory that is up sold to the consumer interested in serious gaming on their phone. I haven't even changed the iPhone, just added a nice spot to put a Clip on Joystick. Remember, we entertained ourselves for hours with a joystick and two buttons (yes the pun is there)


By Gzus666 on 11/14/2008 10:15:18 AM , Rating: 2
So all you have to do is buy a bunch of add-ons, carry them everywhere you go and clumsily plug them in to your phone to enjoy games? WHAT A GREAT IDEA!!!


By The0ne on 11/14/2008 10:47:02 AM , Rating: 2
What you said is not even funny. From power requirements to bulkiness to the weird looking kid with iphone all wrapped within cables and accessories is NOT FUNNY.


By michael2k on 11/14/2008 3:02:55 PM , Rating: 2
That's because I saw what happened in 2001 with the original iPod. It's a mistake, I think, to underestimate Apple (unless you want to end up like Creative, Sony, etc).


Battery Life Expectancy Is The Problem
By SpaceJumper on 11/13/2008 11:57:35 AM , Rating: 2
The batteries used in Apple products do not last very long. Battery replacement is very expensive. The ownership cost is too high compared with any other brands. Apple products are luxury items.




By mooncancook on 11/13/2008 12:45:15 PM , Rating: 2
yeh, just when you are about to make a call after a session of gaming, the battery runs out. How convenient. Same reason I don't suggest my friend to use his WinCE phone as his GPS coz it drains battery fast.


RE: Battery Life Expectancy Is The Problem
By michael2k on 11/13/2008 12:46:18 PM , Rating: 2
Really? I haven't seen that problem with a year old iPhone now.

With just email, web browsing, and phone use, the phone lasts a little over two days without charging. If I'm playing games or music (as a time waster), the phone lasts just shy of a full day, plenty of time to charge it on the drive home or at bedtime.

I think the lack of buttons is more of a problem than the battery life!


RE: Battery Life Expectancy Is The Problem
By Ard on 11/13/2008 7:58:17 PM , Rating: 2
I call bullshit on that. Unless your idea of email and web browsing is simply a few minutes out of the day, coupled with a few hours of talking, your phone is not going to last 2 days on a single charge. I should know, I have one.


By michael2k on 11/14/2008 1:03:57 PM , Rating: 2
I dunno, maybe about an hour of email/browsing a day, a half hour of phone use, about an hour checking out RSS feeds, and putzing around the weather app, nothing strenuous. So maybe 2 to 3 hours a day of direct use (with push email in the background) drains about 40% of the battery. Your usage may be higher than mine, of course.


wasting time?
By AntiM on 11/13/2008 12:03:03 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
"The consumer is using the mobile gaming on the iPhone and iPod Touch as a time waster."


As if playing any game on any gaming device isn't a waste of time? I find the quote rather amusing. I suppose Brain Age could be considered semi-productive.




RE: wasting time?
By JoshuaBuss on 11/13/2008 12:06:37 PM , Rating: 2
exactly what I was thinking. How is playing a game on PSP any less of a waste of time than playing a game on an iphone?


RE: wasting time?
By ani4ani on 11/13/2008 12:37:24 PM , Rating: 2
What Sony are suggesting is, and I agree with, is that people doing some casual gaming on an iPhone is about wasting time, e.g. waiting for a bus, or between calls etc. People pick up a DS or the PSP to specifically play a game, i.e. for perhaps hours at a time. People can consider this as a "waste of time" but neverless the conscious decision to play is entirely different. Whilst I have got all three devices, I would not consider the touch as my platform of choice for games - without buttons, it is very limited in my view - that is not to say that Apple won't make serious inroads, or make lots of money, or that Sony and Nintendo should not take Apple very seriously.


RE: wasting time?
By excelsium on 11/13/2008 1:05:35 PM , Rating: 2
Having fun is never a waste :>


Why anyone seems to think
By amuryo on 11/13/2008 10:15:51 PM , Rating: 2
that game ported to iphone have to be like it's dekstop/console counterpart?

RTS COULD be ported into iphone. It's not that simple, but it's not that hard. And mind you, the SIMPLIFIED version on iphone won't be dedicated to hardcore RTS gamers. It cater to the average person that didn't game much.

So saying that the ported game will be useless etc etc is fully retarded. Coz these game is not intended for casual PC / console gamers, but for iphone users which just play on ther limited time (I'm sure you guys who complain alot about iphone games don't even have the iphone themselves)




RE: Why anyone seems to think
By Gzus666 on 11/13/2008 10:20:22 PM , Rating: 2
RE: Why anyone seems to think
By amuryo on 11/13/2008 10:53:54 PM , Rating: 2
pardon me for not using English correctly. Cause it isn't my native language.


RE: Why anyone seems to think
By Gzus666 on 11/13/2008 11:02:24 PM , Rating: 2
It wasn't so much that it wasn't used correctly, it was more that the entire paragraph was illegible. Much like if I took your native tongue and butchered it to something equivalent of the babbling of a crazy street bum.


The IFail
By NubWobble on 11/14/2008 4:03:42 AM , Rating: 2
The IPhone is revolutionary? If so then why are the Japanese shunning the phone? Could it be because Jobba de Fail made a product that was semi decent (at best) for the market outside of Japan only? IPhones aren't even allowed to be sold in China because Mr. Fail wanted 30% of the call revenue and was was laughed at but that is irrelevant to the (lack of) innovation in the phone.

Could some of the Apple fanboys here please show us how the IFail has taken Japan by storm? No? Is that because the IFail isn't even bad compared to what the Japanese have? The IFail might take Sony and Nintendo on outside of Japan but in Japan it's an utter failure.

I know I have repeated myself a few times here but I can't get over how blind the fanboys are.




RE: The IFail
By afkrotch on 11/14/2008 9:22:16 AM , Rating: 2
The problem with trying to sell in Japan is to find out what the Japanese like. So far Apple hasn't figured that out.

The problem is the iPhone's feature set. It severely lacks features that were available on 2 year old Japanese phones on it's launch date. Even now it still lacks those features. The iPhone barely has the features to match a $20 Japanese phone. Having nothing more than a touchscreen isn't going to sell the phone. Japan already tried that. That phone also failed and it was only 1/2 a touchscreen. The screen was just for the buttons.

Another problem is the provider they chose. Softbank. It's just a horrible network. Instead of trying to please either KDDI AU or NTT Docomo, they stuck to their specific wants. They are working with the smallest subscription base cellphone provider in Japan. It use to be Vodaphone, but they were failing pretty badly, so Softbank bought them up and are continuing that failing trend.

If you move to Japan and get a cellphone plan through Softbank. You are a moron. They are only good for pre-paid phones.


RE: The IFail
By The0ne on 11/14/2008 10:53:31 AM , Rating: 2
They want their TV on the phone, don't you get it! :) PSP got a new antenna I think? :)


Sounds impressive...
By tjr508 on 11/14/2008 9:22:35 AM , Rating: 2
But can it send picture messages?




RE: Sounds impressive...
By cbmeeks on 11/14/2008 12:46:57 PM , Rating: 2
Nope. Which is fine by me. I have Metroids to kill and don't have time to send a goofy picture to someone I really don't want to talk to anyway. But that's just me.


These games are not the same market
By the goat on 11/13/2008 11:59:37 AM , Rating: 2
This is like saying the built in windows games are taking away market share from actual computer games (from the likes of id, 3d Realms, Bethesda Softworks, etc). Playing computer solitaire is not playing a computer game.

I'm sure the profit margin is great for the designers. Put in 10% of the effort and get back the same $$ return == larger net profit. But if you look at revenue that these games generate it will not compare so great.




Maybe with add-ons
By ruibing on 11/13/2008 11:59:43 AM , Rating: 2
I have both handheld consoles (DS Lite and PSP-2000), but I've never felt that there was something more I wanted the two to do on the road. The DS Lite has a very portable form and a nice interface (though its D-pad gives me hand cramps), and it has some very nice exclusives in the form of Castlevania, FF remakes, etc.

The PSP-2000 has the multimedia features, the great screen, best handheld buttons, and an analog stick (I wish there were two). The recent firmware upgrade even removes the need for a PC or PS3 to download a growing library of UMD/legacy games through any internet-enabled WiFi connection.

Besides the built-in accelerometer, which can added to the next generation of DS or PSP, and a superb screen, the lack of buttons really makes it difficult to do anything except novelty games on it. I may get a iTouch (does that even download games?) when it gets cheap enough, but I'll keep my distance for now.




Huh?
By afkrotch on 11/13/2008 12:54:09 PM , Rating: 2
I believe the iPhone can easily have some quick casual games, but it's definitely not comparable to either the DS or PSP.

- No actual control buttons
- No replaceable batteries (I have 2 batteries for my PSP to play longer, when on the go)
- Storage size limitation (cartridges or UMDs. have as many games as you can carry. Not to mention removeable memory cards)

Also if the iPhone only gets around 6 hours of battery life using 3G, that'd only get worse if you start playing a graphic intensive game.

Don't think we'd see games like Crash Bandicoot becoming hugely popular on the iPhone. More like Texas Hold'em, Hexic, Tetris, etc. It's main job is to be a smartphone. All else is just extra.

Oh well...got my Docomo F905i on the way. Can't wait to play me some Taiko no Tatsujin on it at work.




Answer: HAHAHAHA.
By SiliconAddict on 11/13/2008 10:14:53 PM , Rating: 2
But seriously....HAHAHAHAHA.




pricing schemes
By crleap on 11/13/2008 11:26:46 PM , Rating: 2
I hope this serves as an example of successful pricing influencing demand. You will sell a lot more products at $2-$10 (as are most iphone games) than at $50. It all balances out.




No thanks.
By cbmeeks on 11/14/2008 8:17:14 AM , Rating: 2
I have an iPhone 3G and it's great.

But the day I play Zelda or Metroid or Mario (without emulation) is the day they pry my shiny red DS Lite out of my cold, dead hands.




By radguy on 11/16/2008 10:06:52 AM , Rating: 2
If you look at this from a developers standpoint. If I can create a fun and at least fairly simple game for the iphone games I can make some serious money. So now look at the market for the psp or nds I think that a lot of people might pass on the device if they already have something in there pocket that can play a game on. I'm not talking about the people reading this only maybe about 10-15% of the market share. Which could affect both sony and nintendo.
I finally bought that monkey ball game and I can say I was rather impressed with it. I picked up one of the racing games to and I will say that It doesn't do what a psp or nds can but it can be a good source of entertainment on the go. It could distract some buyers from picking up a psp or nds.




IPhone
By ablecluster on 11/17/2008 9:28:34 AM , Rating: 2
I have not picked up my Sony PSP since I got my IPhone 3G 3 weeks ago. I would love to see ID Software develop a game for the IPhone. Just add the buttons to the screen!

jess
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