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Apple prepares its own next generation OS for release

Microsoft's Windows 7 has stolen the hearts of the tech community.  Drawing glowing reviews, Microsoft's dedication to making a polished functional product has impressed many critics.  However, many forget that it will face competition in the next-generation OS race -- Apple has been hard at work cooking up Snow Leopard, which is shaping up to be a significant release.

Apple has released new builds in recent weeks of the OS -- Mac OS X 10.6 -- to its developers.  Build 10A335 was released April 23, just three weeks after the previous test release.  Apple is looking to release the OS in the summer months, possibly at its Worldwide Developers Conference (WWDC), June 8-12 in San Francisco.

However, in the mean time, OS X users have something else to look forward to -- Apple has released Build 9J56 of Mac OS 10.5.7, an incremental update to OS X 10.5, similar to Service Packs for Microsoft OS's.  The new release brings Bluetooth and "stability fixes".  The incremental update will replace OS X 10.5.6, which was released in December 2008.

Apple also released the latest server version of Leopard.  While Apple's server products are even more of a niche business than its computer products, the company is hoping to gain ground over Microsoft's Exchange Server with the new release.

One interesting thing about the new server product is that it will include an exclusive interface with the iPhone.  Apple's WWDC agenda describes, "The Mobile Access Server provides a path through a corporate firewall for IMAP, SMTP, HTTP, and CalDAV without using VPN. Learn about the features of, and deployment tips for, this powerful new service in Snow Leopard Server."
 
While some IT administrators might find such open access to the iPhone alarming, as it could provide a route of intrusion, others might welcome the decrease in hassle it would bring.  The move is an obvious attempt by Apple to capitalize on its iPhone's popularity and growing interest in the business community.  Apple hopes to leverage that interest to spur the adoption of its server software.

And Apple insists that the new service is very secure.  Apple Insider writes, referencing company sources, "Users will be able to access internal network resources from their iPhone or iPod touch with the same level of security that banks and online merchants use to provide SSL-encrypted website access. And because Apple designs both the server and the mobile client software, it can make the setup and configuration for using Mobile Access secured resources nearly invisible to end users."

Along with Snow Leopard, Apple is also set to release the QuickTime X Player.  The player is reported to bring screen recording features to Snow Leopard. 



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Significant release?
By BPB on 4/27/2009 10:10:26 AM , Rating: 3
quote:
However, many forget that it will face competition in the next-generation OS race -- Apple has been hard at work cooking up Snow Leopard, which is shaping up to be a significant release .
Would you mind defining that? What makes it significant?




RE: Significant release?
By Brandon Hill (blog) on 4/27/2009 10:16:18 AM , Rating: 2
Aren't all 10.x releases significant?

10.6 would be a major release. 10.6.1 would be a minor release.

As for what's included, check here (Apple calls it a major release)

http://www.apple.com/macosx/snowleopard/


RE: Significant release?
By flyboy84 on 4/27/2009 10:19:01 AM , Rating: 2
Major =/= significant. I would consider 10.5 significant because of all the new features. 10.6 mostly brings performance optimization to the table from what I understand.


RE: Significant release?
By rdeegvainl on 4/27/2009 10:33:27 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Taking a break from adding new features, Snow Leopard — scheduled to ship in about a year — builds on Leopard’s enormous innovations by delivering a new generation of core software technologies that will streamline Mac OS X, enhance its performance, and set new standards for quality.

From the looks of what Mac is saying, it's not trying to not do a vista.
They are touting multicore, and 64bit, microsoft office 2007, and media/internet, which seems to highlight that this is an optimization more innovative release. Though I am far more interested in the OpenCL...


RE: Significant release?
By ScifiterX on 4/27/2009 10:48:26 AM , Rating: 2
Based on official statements so far optimization is what is slated for the most part. However Apple does tend to down play many new features before the release. Given that and the rumored features like a New UI, MultiTouch Framework, Font auto activation, ZFS support, improved & expanded data detectors & spell check, Resolution Independence, Push Notification Service, Put Back, Stacks Navigation, Icon integration of QuickLook, etc. If even half of that is accurate I say saying its a significant upgrade is accurate. I ham however wary because not all rumored feature make it into the final version and not all features seem as cool or useful when they do.


RE: Significant release?
By michael2k on 4/27/09, Rating: 0
RE: Significant release?
By TomZ on 4/27/2009 2:35:51 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Isn't Windows 7 also only mostly performance optimizations? Therefore are you also saying Windows 7 is not a significant release?
Do you mean BESIDES the completely re-done windowing and taskbar interface? Or do you mean the integrated Windows XP virtual machine?

(Regarding the latter feature, is DT going to post an article on this feature? It was announced last Friday, and IMO is one of the most interesting and compelling features so far for Windows 7.)


RE: Significant release?
By michael2k on 4/27/2009 3:43:31 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Do you mean BESIDES the completely re-done windowing and taskbar interface?


2 things:
1) I said mostly, so I know it isn't completely performance optimizations. I also love how much more Mac like the re-done windowing and taskbar interface is; it's a welcome improvement over XP and Vista.
2) Do you then also accept that UI enhancements in Mac OS X (such as Expose, Spaces, Stacks, Spotlight, QuickLook, and Time Machine) are also significant? Because I never downplayed the UI improvements in Windows 7.

quote:

Or do you mean the integrated Windows XP virtual machine? (Regarding the latter feature, is DT going to post an article on this feature? It was announced last Friday, and IMO is one of the most interesting and compelling features so far for Windows 7.)


That's news to me too! Sounds awesome. Also sounds like a first step in Windows 8 of breaking 100% backwards compatibility and supporting legacy code in virtual machines (XP mode, Vista mode, W7 mode, etc). From what I can see it isn't "integrated", it's a free download. Though of course these things can always change.

Even cooler is if they had a bootcamp style "boot into XP style OS" for 100% compatibility.


RE: Significant release?
By omnicronx on 4/27/2009 3:58:32 PM , Rating: 2
I just have an issue with Apple claiming '15% performance increase' when this is most likely untrue. I don't see how removing Carbon will do it, and it sure as heck is not going to come from going all 64bit.

I love 64bit windows, and I surely will not go back, but 95%+ of the applications (especially daily tasks like browsing, listening to music/video) will not perform better in a 64bit environment. Now if someone can please tell me specifically what a Mac user does that can take advantage of 64bit processing, then I may believe this, but with full 64bit comes full 64bit drivers, and if there is anything to be learned from windows, it is that 64bit is a new playing field. Expect bugs and problems, its just the name of the game.

What makes me wonder even more is the fact that apps like Safari will remain 32 bit, as they have the exact same underlying problems as windows/nix machines, in which they will have no 64 bit flash support while using a 64bit browser (among many other issues). So once again, no possible performance improvement here..


RE: Significant release?
By Pirks on 4/27/2009 4:41:50 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Apple claiming '15% performance increase'
Where did they claim this 15% performance increase? May I see the link? Couldn't find anything like this on the official Snow Leopard page at apple.com


RE: Significant release?
By BPB on 4/27/2009 4:39:20 PM , Rating: 2
I was not trying to be a wise guy. The article did not give me any reason to see the upgrade as significant. Thus, not being a MAC user I had no reason to believe the statement. So I asked. After reading all the comments I'm inclined to say I still don't see it as siginificant, at least not for the large majority of users who use OS X. Once released I expect to read reviews that make it clearer. And I do read OS X / MAC reviews, which is whyu I said I was considering an inexpensive MAC in another post. The problem is, no such thing exists. Not by my standards anyway. My pockets are too shallow these days. A MAC netbook might be cool, but they've made it clear those won't be coming out, possibly never coming out.


RE: Significant release?
By WoWCow on 4/27/09, Rating: 0
RE: Significant release?
By Natfly on 4/27/2009 10:31:00 AM , Rating: 2
Dunno why you were modded down, its a valid question.

The release is supposed to be mainly focused on performance. Implementations of OpenCL and better use of multicore processors.


RE: Significant release?
By thornburg on 4/27/2009 10:41:14 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Would you mind defining that? What makes it significant?


I don't think they meant it the way you did, but Snow Leopard will be significant because it will be (AFAIK), the first commercial OS with full native support for GPGPU/CUDA/OpenCL type technology, i.e. general purpose computing on the graphics processor. It should provide a major speed bump to all Macs released after they switched to the nVidia platform. Major speed bump in what, no one who isn't under NDA knows yet.


RE: Significant release?
By omnicronx on 4/27/2009 1:16:03 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
the first commercial OS with full native support for GPGPU/CUDA/OpenCL type technolog

You are kidding yourself if you think that makes this a significant release, at least no more so than Vista supporting DX 10, or 7 supporting DX11. (They are frameworks

Snow Leopard will have almost no additional features, it is mainly a cleanup of old innefficient (bye bye Carbon) code from the PPC days and the addition of full 64bit.

The so called 'speed bump' mainly because it will be full 64 bit. That being said, you are not going to see significant improves in iLife apps or anything similar. If you do a lot of video editing or photo editing, then you will surely see an increase in speed, but there is not going to be an increase across the board(As Windows/Nix users know, 64 bit does nothing to increase the speeds of say your browser or mediaplayer). Furthermore only new Macs will be able to take advantage, as obviously with a 64 bit only OS requires all 64 bit drivers.

If this were in the PC world, I am sure more than a few would be excited about this, but with the Mac userbase, 99% will barely notice, as hardly nothing in the frontend has been changed.


RE: Significant release?
By omnicronx on 4/27/2009 1:01:51 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
which is shaping up to be a significant release .
Almost makes me laugh, as all the changes are under the hood, mostly removing legacy items and improving current code. When Apple does it, it somehow becomes a 'significant release' but when Microsoft does it, totally changes the GUI and makes various other changes under the hood, they are merely 'Releasing a service pack'. q


RE: Significant release?
By psonice on 4/28/2009 7:05:02 AM , Rating: 2
Depends on how you define significant.

If you judge by looks alone, then osx hasn't had much significant change since it was released. If you compare the latest and original they're quite different, but the change has been pretty gradual.

If you go on features, there's quite a lot new. Full 64bit, opencl, etc.

There's also the "under the hood" stuff, which you don't see but makes a massive difference. If it looks the same but runs much faster, that's pretty significant. If the api changes, the os will seem the same, but there'll be a ton of new apps doing some great new stuff. Also significant.

There's a lot of different sides to it, but I'd say there's actually a lot of very significant stuff in this release. When leopard came out, the cosmetic changes were pretty minor (and I hated some, like that shiny dock). The only new features I really use are time machine and spaces.. again nothing major. But I'd never go back to tiger, because there's a lot of upgraded stuff you don't "see" as such, but makes a massive difference when you're using it, like the much better networking stuff.


Frustrated Ranting
By schrodog on 4/27/2009 12:17:01 PM , Rating: 2
I know that a lot of what I'm about to say has probably been said before but it helps to get it off my chest. A lot of this is personal preference and opinion, but some of it is fact. And for those Apple Fanboys who will probably flame me, I have used Macs before and I do know about all the great stuff that there is when it comes to Macs so don't even bother. Now for my ranting.

These releases (whether you consider them major or not) just add up the absurd cost of a Mac system.

Consider this:

1. I see these releases (10.4, 10.5, 10.6, etc.) like Windows service packs when you think about what is included in them. On the other hand, I see Mac OS 9 and Mac OS X like actual new Operating Systems. It is true that you pay a high upfront cost for new Windows OS's (or little to nothing for a Linux OS), but you never have to pay for any of the Service Packs that come later on. However, you have to pay for each release of the Mac OS X. This begins to add up over time.

2. If you purchase a Windows or Linux system, you can choose which parts that you want. This means that you can get the latest and greatest (at a reasonable price) or you can get a good deal on some slightly older parts. On the other hand if you buy a Mac system, you are severely restricted on which parts you can get. The parts that you can get are typically way overpriced and sometimes a couple generations old. I know this allows for greater stability and reliability for a system, but I think it hampers competition and progress, not to mention that Apple is taking advantage of people who are computer illiterate.

3. I hate it how people keep saying that Mac OS X is immune to viruses and worms. IT'S NOT. Even apple has recommended on their website that users should install anti-virus software. But every time I ask someone who purchased a Mac if they installed anti-virus software, they either tell me that they don't need it or that the guy at the Apple Store said that they don't need it. I know that Macs suffer far fewer attacks from hackers than computer with Windows/Linux do, but that's because it is a much smaller target base in terms of the number of computers with the Mac OS installed on them. That's like leaving your front door unlocked if you live in a small town versus a big city. The crime rate may be low, if existent at all, but that does not mean that nobody will eventually break in. All I ask on this part is for Apple to stop fudging the truth when it comes to viruses and hackers.

I'd rant about the limited software for Macs, but that is mainly a result of the small user base combined with the higher cost for developers to develop software for multiple Operating Systems.




RE: Frustrated Ranting
By schrodog on 4/27/2009 12:20:29 PM , Rating: 2
Oh and when I said fudging the truth, I was referring to the guys at the Apple Store and the Mac commercials.


RE: Frustrated Ranting
By bernardl on 4/27/2009 8:23:17 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
1. I see these releases (10.4, 10.5, 10.6, etc.) like Windows service packs when you think about what is included in them.


I agree that 10.6 looks like that, but claiming that 10.4 and 10.5 are similar to Win SP is grossly unfair for obvious reasons.

quote:
2. If you purchase a Windows or Linux system, you can choose which parts that you want. This means that you can get the latest and greatest (at a reasonable price) or you can get a good deal on some slightly older parts. On the other hand if you buy a Mac system, you are severely restricted on which parts you can get. The parts that you can get are typically way overpriced and sometimes a couple generations old. I know this allows for greater stability and reliability for a system, but I think it hampers competition and progress, not to mention that Apple is taking advantage of people who are computer illiterate.


It is true that you have more hardware options on PC and can probably extrat a few more % performance, but what is more important in the end? For someone who has to be productive with a machine, stability is by far more important than ultimum performance.

I use both, Win at work in a professionnally managed environment and 2 macs at home, and have a lot less issues with my home set ups...

Cheers,
Bernard


RE: Frustrated Ranting
By psonice on 4/28/2009 8:39:22 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
1. I see these releases (10.4, 10.5, 10.6, etc.) like Windows service packs


Not really. Windows service packs are normally bug/security fixes. On osx the closest thing to that is the 10.5.x releases. They're the bug fix and security update rollups. In the 10.x updates you get the things like major kernel reworkings, major new features, UI changes and the like. The change from os9 to os 10 was different because it was a totally new OS.. a bit like going from win3.1 to 95. The 10.x releases are more like going 95,98, 2k, xp...

Cost: swings and roundabouts really. The cost of a mac isn't much different to a pc, but only if you compare like for like. What you probably mean is that apple don't sell machines you can compare to a generic PC, and they don't sell anything cheap. You can get a pc with better hardware than an imac for much less money, sure, but try finding an all-in-one with similar hardware - likely it'll be more expensive.

If apple are selling something that suits your needs, they're pretty reasonably priced good machines, if not, they'll probably look expensive, or under powered or whatever.

The OS cost.. well, if microsoft stuck to their schedule a bit better, it'd probably work out roughly the same. Remember vista was several years late, so you've been paying nothing for no OS updates in that time..

quote:
2. If you purchase a Windows or Linux system, you can choose which parts that you want.


Yep, agreed. If apple sold a more "normal" desktop, with a small tower case, a fixed motherboard but left it to us to do the rest it would be great. There's the compatibility + drivers issue of course, but even if there was a really limited range of things like video cards it would be massively better.

But they don't, and that's their choice. The market for people like us is pretty tiny compared to the market for pre-built systems, so it's probably just not worth doing financially. Perhaps if their market share grows enough, they'll do it?

quote:
3. I hate it how people keep saying that Mac OS X is immune to viruses and worms.


There's still actually some truth to that old lie. Sure, it's not "immune", but if you're doing normal stuff on it and installing updates, the chances of getting infected is pretty much zero. The real risks are downloading warez or visiting dodgy porn sites.. stay away from that and it's all good. For anyone without much IT knowledge, a mac really is a lot safer than windows.

The problem of course is the whole "macs are 100% safe" idea, which is stupid. If/when there is a serious worm for osx, a lot of people are going to get infected and probably not even know about it. Well, if they're stupid enough to think it's 100% safe, they probably need to learn the hard way :)

quote:
I'd rant about the limited software for Macs


It's not really that limited, and when there's something you absolutely need, there's bootcamp, vmware, parallels and the rest. Once again though, if you need to use pc-only software, you need a pc. It's pointless complaining about PCs when you want to use some mac-only software too.


RE: Frustrated Ranting
By themaster08 on 4/28/2009 6:33:03 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Sure, it's not "immune", but if you're doing normal stuff on it and installing updates, the chances of getting infected is pretty much zero.

Agreed, but in all honesty I thought that was the case for every operating system.
Regardless of the OS, 99.9% of malware is retrieved through user incompetence. It doesn't get there by itself.


wait for winter :)
By mforce on 4/27/2009 1:12:23 PM , Rating: 2
Releasing the snow leopard in that summer heat ? It might not feel too well. If I were Apple I'd wait till winter to unleash such a beast. If you ask Apple OS X is better than anything else out there anyway :).




RE: wait for winter :)
By Fenixgoon on 4/27/2009 1:30:17 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
If you ask Apple OS X is better than anything else out there anyway :).


why would Apple (or any company) say otherwise about their own product?


RE: wait for winter :)
By mforce on 4/27/2009 4:46:21 PM , Rating: 2
Not saying they shouldn't but Apple has a way of overdoing it. While their products are good and sometimes innovative their marketing makes it sound like much more than it actually is. Ex. when they introduced multiple desktops, it was something that was already there for a long time in Linux.


Secure?
By mikefarinha on 4/27/2009 11:17:24 AM , Rating: 4
quote:
And Apple insists that the new service is very secure.


Is this the same as how they say Mac OSX is 'very secure.' You know that OS that has been hacked first in the CanSecWest competition this year and last?!?!

... never mind the FAIL that is beginning a paragraph with the word 'And.'




RE: Secure?
By ltcommanderdata on 4/27/09, Rating: 0
Ballmer
By flyboy84 on 4/27/2009 10:17:50 AM , Rating: 3
Is anyone else reminded of that famous Ballmer pic upon seeing the story image?

http://www.precentral.net/sites/androidcentral.com...




DT's Apple reporting
By psonice on 4/28/2009 6:55:57 AM , Rating: 2
I have to say, DT's Apple reporting is absolutely terrible these days. It seems to be driven by the need to balance mac/windows reporting, and the need to appease the fanboys on both sides. What happened to news sites reporting news?

This article isn't actually bad, but there's almost no news in it - just a rehash of already announced stuff. So why is it here? Because there's a lot of news about windows 7 lately?

A few days ago there was an article about a fearsome sounding "new" botnet running on OSX, and "new" trojans. Great - except that this is an old story: the trojans were included in warez versions of ilife 09, months back, and it was widely reported then. Why suddenly report it again as if it's new? There have been quite a few articles like this - heavily biased for or against mac.

What I see happening is this: DT reports some apple news. It tends to be either some new product that gets a lot of hype, or some classic apple issue (you know, where they screw up and pretend it never happened..). If the news is just published, an army of angry fanboys jump on it and criticise the reporter for being pro/anti apple.

Instead of ignoring it for the idiocy it is, the next article tries to be more "balanced". Instead of publishing "apple releases cool new product", we get "evil apple releases cool product copied from competitor and somebody is angry because they scratched it". Negative issues get published without much balance, or fact checking. It sucks.

DT staff:

If apple releases some cool new thing, tell us about it. Compare it with other products, and discuss the pros and cons. You know, like you do with other companies. If they screw up, check the facts (and if it's a few people complaining loudly on some forum or blog that their phone scratched, tell us it's a few angry people and don't make out that it's the whole world!). Then give us the facts, with some background only if it's relevant. Add some opinion, sure, but don't let it flavour the whole article.

If microsoft release some new product, do the same (you're already doing the microsoft reporting pretty well I'd say). You don't need to mention apple in it, unless there's some relevant link, and you don't need to follow it up with an apple article unless apple are actually doing something new.

The microsoft/apple war is mostly in the minds of a few vocal forum posting fan boys - are they the audience you want?




Windows 7
By reader1 on 4/27/09, Rating: -1
RE: Windows 7
By BPB on 4/27/09, Rating: -1
RE: Windows 7
By Boze on 4/27/2009 10:51:12 AM , Rating: 2
It has nothing to do with losing your manhood.

Its like waking up to an unattractive person (I say person so as not to offend either sex or sexual persuasion) after a night of drinking. Sure, that MacBook looked all hot and sexy when you were with your friends at the Mac Store, but once you got her home and spent the night with her and woke up the next day, you realized you'd sunk more into the encounter than you wished you would have.

For Mac users, this is namely money... and nothing stings worse than admitting you got financially hosed on a purchase.


RE: Windows 7
By BZDTemp on 4/27/2009 3:36:43 PM , Rating: 1
Nice story and all but it seems to you're talking about Vista.

I have been using Microsoft products since DOS 3.30 and Apple ones since OS 9 plus all sorts of other OS. I like XP and 2003 but Vista is like a Chinese copy of OS X (like how they copy western cars). From a far it may look the part but get close and it is a very different world.

Windows 7 seems to be what Vista should have been but it is far from OS X. It is a better Windows but there is a long way to something so well executed as OS X.

Was it not for games I would have only Mac's at home. For now I have Apple hardware, none-Apple hardware and with some of the later dual-booting in both worlds.


RE: Windows 7
By Spivonious on 4/27/2009 12:13:28 PM , Rating: 2
You forgot to mention XP Mode, perhaps the best thing to come out of the Windows team in quite a while. This will let MS finally strip out all of that compatibility code that makes Windows so huge.

http://www.winsupersite.com/win7/win7_rc_03.asp - scroll about 2/3 of the way down.


RE: Windows 7
By Pirks on 4/27/2009 1:09:16 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
This will let MS finally strip out all of that compatibility code that makes Windows so huge.
How can they strip all that compatibility code if XPM is for enterprise versions only, not for the consumer ones? Do you mean they are going to strip that compatibility code ONLY in enterprise versions?


RE: Windows 7
By omnicronx on 4/27/2009 3:14:24 PM , Rating: 2
Hes wrong in saying this will come with 7, but it will be the basis for compatibility for future versions of Windows.

It is a free download available to anyone with Windows 7 professional, ultimate or enterprise, so its not enterprise versions only, although it will require hardware virtualization.(which is the big hint that this will not be for everyone, and that Ms cannot possibly remove legacy code this time around)

If this project is successful, it is going to open up the doors for Microsoft. They will be able to focus on the here and now, and not have to worry about legacy code, which will pretty much put them in the same ballpark as Apple (which could pretty much care less about backwards compatibility, much to the chagrin of pretty much any business). By the time the next version of windows comes to the market, all CPU's should have hardware virtualization, and Microsoft will be able to take advantage of this.

This is the first i have heard of these new features, and I have to say, it is quite genius.

I think the big news here is that it is available to Enterprise users. In house software is the big issue, MS could care less about home consumer software that people refuse to upgrade. This will be a major reason for businesses to make the jump to 7, how you can not realize this is beyond me.. In fact this is the sole reason that my Office is still running XP.


RE: Windows 7
By Pirks on 4/27/2009 3:22:30 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
available to anyone with Windows 7 professional, ultimate or enterprise, so its not enterprise versions only
But those three versions above are "the enterprise versions" so to say. How is MS going to deal with old code removal if XPM is not available on all versions? Say XPM took care of old code removal on enterprice versions, and old code was removed on those. What about consumer versions? XPM is not available for those, then how can MS do old code removal for them then? I don't get the logic here. I thought that if you want to do OS cleanup you include emulation/VM layer in ALL versions and THEN do a cleanup. How can you do cleanup just for selected few versions of an OS?? Please explain.


RE: Windows 7
By omnicronx on 4/27/2009 3:38:41 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
But those three versions above are "the enterprise versions" so to say.
First of all Ultimate and Business is not an enterprise version, enterprise is the only enterprise version.(thus the name). Professional will be marketed towards small and medium sized businesses (i.e not enterprise) and Ultimate is the high end consumer version. So as I already mentioned, they have the business market cornered (not just limited to top 100 esque companies).
quote:
How is MS going to deal with old code removal if XPM is not available on all versions? Say XPM took care of old code removal on enterprice versions, and old code was removed on those. What about consumer versions? XPM is not available for those, then how can MS do old code removal for them then? I don't get the logic here.
Its called making priorities, all MS has to do is release a version with basic compatibility features to get legacy software up and running. If MS decided to right off the bat give this to everyone, the average consumer will be demanding this support for everything, from the basic program to a full fledged 3d game. The technology just is not here right now, so it looks as though they are starting with a base, and working themselves up from there, keeping their focus on the people who need it most, and the market that happens to account for 80+% of their sales.
quote:
I thought that if you want to do OS cleanup you include emulation/VM layer in ALL versions and THEN do a cleanup. How can you do cleanup just for selected few versions of an OS?? Please explain.
The OP is wrong in saying this is merely for a cleanup, and totally wrong in saying this will be implemented in 7(cleanup of code that is), I already mentioned in my previous post that this will not be possible for the reasons you have already mentioned (it won't be available in lower versions of windows). Microsoft's intention here is to make the shift from Xp to 7 as easy as possible for the business market. The consumer market will surely have these features next time around, or if all goes well, in a future service pack.

Ms is just all the more padding their lead over Apple in the business market. While Snow Leopard works hard in removing legacy code, Microsoft and Windows 7 are working hard on making their OS far more compatible with previous versions, without taking the performance hit. Now from a business perspective, which OS gives you more assurance for future releases? Especially if you deal with lots of in house software?


RE: Windows 7
By Pirks on 4/27/2009 3:47:22 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
80+% of their sales
Where did you get this number from? Or is just a guess?
quote:
from a business perspective, which OS gives you more assurance for future releases? Especially if you deal with lots of in house software?
What's the problem in staying with previous version of the OS if necessary? Business users stayed with XP for almost a decade and were happy, OS X is no different. Apple can remove all the legacy code or whatnot and business users will just stay with previous version of OS X. The moment there's serious demand for legacy layer in OS X - the VMs for that will pop up like mushrooms after rain, including MS ones, you can bet on that. I mean, there's absolutely no need for Apple to bother with VM stuff since there is someting called ISVs, you know ;) MS doesn't like that because they want everything, but I don't see the problem with highly focused attitude of Apple who clearly doesn't want everything. I don't think this attitude is anyhow worse or less beneficial that MS's one.


RE: Windows 7
By TomZ on 4/27/2009 4:04:34 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Business users stayed with XP for almost a decade
XP hasn't even been out for a decade, and many businesses have only just recently switched from Win2K to XP over the past couple of years.

OSX has zero use in business, so they don't have to worry about legacy compatibility much. Consumers don't consider backwards compatibility much in their purchase decisions.


RE: Windows 7
By Pirks on 4/27/2009 5:34:02 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
many businesses have only just recently switched from Win2K to XP over the past couple of years
So they stayed with Win2K for almost a decade, which only proves my point.


RE: Windows 7
By TomZ on 4/27/2009 9:06:51 PM , Rating: 2
No, most companies didn't upgrade to Windows 2K until a few years after it came out.

Are you really that obtuse?


RE: Windows 7
By Pirks on 4/27/2009 9:26:07 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
most companies didn't upgrade to Windows 2K until a few years after it came out
Anyway, I see no reason why the situation with OS X would be any different in case if businesses decide to adopt it. Businesses can stay with older versions of OS X for howevere long they want, just like they stay with ancient versions of Windows today. Got it now?


RE: Windows 7
By omnicronx on 4/27/2009 4:31:07 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
What's the problem in staying with previous version of the OS if necessary? Business users stayed with XP for almost a decade and were happy, OS X is no different.
Its called support. XP has already ended, and security support will end very soon.
quote:
Apple can remove all the legacy code or whatnot and business users will just stay with previous version of OS X.
And that's obviously what you are not understanding here. In the business world, this is completely unacceptable, it is one thing for some software not being able to work because of the additions/removals of certain API's etc, it is entirely another to completely remove support for all legacy programs.

quote:
The moment there's serious demand for legacy layer in OS X - the VMs for that will pop up like mushrooms after rain, including MS ones, you can bet on that.
Keep on dreaming, the day Apple decides to backwards engineer windows API's and keep them up to date is the day cats and dogs fly at the same time..(yes it would be that unbelievable). I also disagree with you here, obviously there is not that much demand, or Apple would not have removed it in the first place. In fact if they are so confident as to totally remove it from this release, what incentive will they have to do so in the future?
quote:
MS doesn't like that because they want everything, but I don't see the problem with highly focused attitude of Apple who clearly doesn't want everything.
Ms does not want everything, they have just realized that VM's are the future, especially in the business world. From software testing to multiple purpose servers running multiple OS's concurrently, VM certainly has a big future when it comes to business.

Furthermore Apple has clearly found themselves a target market, and it is not the business sector. The problem with this is, as long as Windows is the OS of choice in the business environment, everyone is going to have to know Windows, regardless of whether you own a Mac or not.


RE: Windows 7
By Pirks on 4/27/2009 5:29:34 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
Its called support. XP has already ended, and security support will end very soon
Man, you're smoking good stuff, now read this:

http://community.winsupersite.com/blogs/paul/archi...

FIVE YEARS from now is "very soon" only for you alone, I'm sure ;-)
quote:
it is one thing for some software not being able to work because of the additions/removals of certain API's etc, it is entirely another to completely remove support for all legacy programs
No big deal for business users, they will stay with older version of the OS. Support for XP until 2014 doesn't sound too bad for a typical business these days, does it? Apple can do just the same if there's enough demand. I see absolutely no problem with that.
quote:
Apple decides to backwards engineer windows API
I meant the OS X legacy code, not the Windows legacy code. Hence if the need arises then either ISVs or Apple itself can provide necessary XPM-like VM infrastructure for business OS X users.
quote:
Apple has clearly found themselves a target market, and it is not the business sector
Ongoing integration between Apple iPhone/Leopard server software and MS Exchange proves the opposite. Apple wouldn't have bothered themselves with any Exchange integration had they decided to ignore business segment of the market as you imply.


RE: Windows 7
By TomZ on 4/27/2009 3:40:39 PM , Rating: 2
Ultimate is not an enterprise edition - it is a consumer/retail edition.

The point is that XP compatibility is a high concern for businesses, and so XPM offers a solution for that. It is less of a concern for consumers, but for those where it is a concern, they can purchase the Ultimate edition.

AFAIK, there is nothing in Windows 7 that removes XP compatibility relative to Vista. I think the point is that this new feature would allow future Windows versions, e.g., Windows 8, to not worry about such compatibility, assuming this feature is well accepted.


RE: Windows 7
By TomZ on 4/27/2009 2:36:41 PM , Rating: 1
- reader1 - idiot


RE: Windows 7
By Diesel Donkey on 4/27/2009 3:26:50 PM , Rating: 1
Funny...jump lists are one of the major reasons I plan to upgrade to Windows 7. I've been using the beta since it became available, and I think the jump lists are tremendously useful.

I also find the calendar and weather gadgets to be quite helpful, though most of the rest leave something to be desired (I'm tempted to learn how to make gadgets so I could have a decent RSS feed on my desktop).

Perhaps DirectX 12 or 13 may be obsoleted by a newer GPU architecture like Larrabee, but I think you're jumping the gun a bit to say that DirectX 11 won't be important.


RE: Windows 7
By Diesel Donkey on 4/27/2009 3:29:32 PM , Rating: 2
Oops, according to my automatic down rating, apparently replying to a post rated at -1 constitutes feeding the trolls. I'll try to remember that next time!


RE: Windows 7
By themaster08 on 4/27/2009 3:35:30 PM , Rating: 1
Please keep your asinine opinions to yourself. Nobody is impressed.


"Can anyone tell me what MobileMe is supposed to do?... So why the f*** doesn't it do that?" -- Steve Jobs














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