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Print 87 comment(s) - last by fteoath64.. on Oct 26 at 1:48 AM

Don't hate the playa, hate the game

Reaction to the introduction of the iPad mini yesterday was decidedly mixed. On the one hand, many Apple faithful praised the launch of the new tablet, which is half the weight of the third and fourth generation iPads, and can be palmed with one hand. On the other hand, many complained that it was simply a shrunken down iPad 2 with the same lackluster screen resolution. It also didn't help that many people felt that the 16GB iPad mini was overpriced at $329.
 
For example, Amazon's 7" Kindle Fire HD is priced at "only" $199, while a 32GB Google Nexus 7 will cost you $249. Even Barnes and Noble is hanging around in the budget realm with the 7" Nook HD, which is priced at $229. All of the aforementioned tablets have a higher screen resolution than the iPad mini.
 
With all the criticism of the iPad mini's pricing and specs, Apple' Phil Schiller has come to the rescue to defend Apple's newest tablet entry.

 
"The iPad is far and away the most successful product in its category. The most affordable product we've made so far was $399 and people were choosing that over those devices," said Schiller in an interview with Reuters.
 
"And now you can get a device that's even more affordable at $329 in this great new form, and I think a lot of customers are going to be very excited about that.”
 
Schiller believes that the $130 price premium over some competing tablets is worth it, and that the iPad mini will sell on its merits alone, not needing to compete on price. Apple points to the fact that the iPad mini is lighter, thinner, and has better built quality than the plastic-clad competition. And of course, Apple also points to 275,000 tablet-specific apps for the iPad platform versus a plethora of "stretched phone apps" for Android devices.
 
So, will customers buy into Apple's strategy?

Source: Reuters



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No reasonable justification
By Shadowself on 10/24/2012 3:03:16 PM , Rating: 2
Bezos has already said Amazon does not make a dime off its tablets and the no ad one is $15 more than listed in this article. B&N very likely is not making any money either. Thus the only 7" tablet of note for price comparison is the Nexus 7.

Still I believe it is foolish to have priced the iPad mini at $329 instead of $299.

The only explanation I can think of is that which was posted here: with supply constraints Apple is getting as much as they think they can from each one. When supply catches up with demand 100% (or there becomes a mild oversupply) Apple may lower the price to a more reasonable number.




RE: No reasonable justification
By Insurgence on 10/24/2012 3:53:57 PM , Rating: 5
The companies releasing the tablets for different marketing reasons. Amazon does it exlusively to sell their content. Same thing with B&N. Microsoft does it to make money off of their OS. Google does it for data collection, that and provide a benchmark for the Android Platform. Apple sells things to milk customers of as much money as they can for everything they sell.

so the best comparison would be comparable tablets from a company like Motorola or Samsung who are not trying to make a profit off of something else, but rather make a profit off of the product as it is sold.


RE: No reasonable justification
By augiem on 10/24/2012 4:15:45 PM , Rating: 2
Spot on. But nobody seems to / wants to see it like this. They think $199-$250 is the new standard price for entry level tablets and that no tablet with similar specs should be priced any higher or its a rip off. Ultimately, to the consumer that may be the case, but the reality is that this loss leader scheme of selling tablets is still an experiment only being done by 2 companies out of dozens.


RE: No reasonable justification
By MadMan007 on 10/24/2012 4:48:19 PM , Rating: 5
The point is not invalid, but it also requires details that ultimately don't matter to the consumer. You can get a 7" tablet for ~$200. Full stop. 'Why' doesn't matter, but speaking of it, Apple could in theory do this as well, after all Apple devices are quite locked down and locked into iTunes. It would just kill their margins.


RE: No reasonable justification
By Mint on 10/25/2012 7:02:45 AM , Rating: 2
Well said.

However, you can't dupe customers forever. Apple's margins will fall now that there are better products at lower prices and things like OS and ecosystem have approached parity. They earned hundreds of billions with their first mover advantage on a few killer products, but now it's time for price reductions for the consumer.


RE: No reasonable justification
By augiem on 10/24/2012 4:17:17 PM , Rating: 3
It's akin to everyone looking at all the free "fremium" games out there and thinking that $0 is the new price for video games and that anyone charging more is ripping people off, even when those other games aren't built around the in-app-purchase scheme. Shallow thinking.


RE: No reasonable justification
By Bubbacub on 10/24/2012 6:13:39 PM , Rating: 2
but freemium games are crap compared to proper ones

however, the nexus 7 is better than 90% of the competition that is also higher priced.

it doesnt matter why - if you going to make a tablet then you have to compete against the nexus 7 price tag.

if a company cant compete and make money then they should get out of the tablet business


RE: No reasonable justification
By GulWestfale on 10/24/2012 10:10:14 PM , Rating: 2
so this thing essentially packs the same specs as a $150 playbook, but with a slightly larger screen? how dumb does apple think we are?


RE: No reasonable justification
By ritualm on 10/25/2012 3:50:51 AM , Rating: 3
Apple is betting on you buying it, all the while complaining how worthless it is versus the competition. In other words, dumber than you think you can possibly be.


RE: No reasonable justification
By augiem on 10/25/2012 3:36:22 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
it doesnt matter why - if you going to make a tablet then you have to compete against the nexus 7 price tag.


It's just not the case. Apple has never competed with the low-ball price tags of desktops, laptops, phones, or tablets. They just don't have to. Not everyone buys the cheapest thing out there, it's just that simple. Losing money on the initial sale only to make it up later in secondary purchases has been tried countless times before in many industries and rarely does it stick because the companies taking the losses can't do so forever.

Apple's sales certainly aren't being crushed by Amazon/Google. Apple doesn't have to cut its price until that happens, if ever. That's the free market. An item is worth as much as people are willing to pay for it, and at this time, that price is of Apple's choosing.


RE: No reasonable justification
By augiem on 10/25/2012 4:23:58 AM , Rating: 2
The most obvious successful story of this model (besides the razor blades) would be the game consoles. But consoles were dealing with licensing fees and royalties on ~$60 games. At an average of $1 for an app, making significant revenue with this scheme is going to be a lot harder. So far Amazon's doing okay. I haven't heard any reports on the Nexus 7's sell through rate on media though.


RE: No reasonable justification
By Freakie on 10/25/2012 12:47:36 AM , Rating: 2
Ermm... No. Apple makes a device and it makes all the services around it. From iTunes, to iCloud, to iBooks and the AppStore, everything about an iDevice is about Apple selling their services on top of their hardware. Apple could lower their profit margin a LOT on their devices and still profit off of every device because just like the Kindle, every iDevice is built around you buying more Apple products and products that Apple gets a cut of.


RE: No reasonable justification
By augiem on 10/25/2012 3:31:15 AM , Rating: 2
Take a look at Apple's annual report. Last I looked, they made about $1.4 billion in revenue from iTunes and all app sales. Their hardware sales made up almost the entire revenue and profit for the company. Apple is not going to cut their bread and butter just to fight Kindle and Nexus 7 when they're not doing much damage to its sales.


RE: No reasonable justification
By Insurgence on 10/25/2012 12:54:56 PM , Rating: 2
Actually Freakie, yes, Apple could do that, but they choose not to. So because of the way they choose to market their product, it is better compared to companies such as Motorola and Samsung. That does not mean that your opinion of the iPad Mini has to change. Personally I hate the specs for the premium price they are charging, but I still compare it to Motorola and Samsungs products, not Googles or Amazons.

But Like Augiem said, Apples Revenue is hardware based. Their hardware Q2 of 2012, Apple Generated $1.9 Billion in revenue from Itunes while total Q2 Revenue was $35 Billion. If I had a big gap like that between to products, I would aim to make money off of the more profitable one, not sell it at cost.

So with Apples primary products being hardware, it is still a better comparison to compare it to Samsung or Motorola, because once again, they are trying to make a profit off of the hardware they produce, not another product whose use is encouraged by the hardware. Google is making money off of their Data Collection, largely through the linked google services that are default to the devices, or through the selling or digital products through the play platform. Amazon and B&N are selling their products to sell their digital distribution platforms, although B&N has to sell more cost effective hardware or Amazon will smite them.


RE: No reasonable justification
By augiem on 10/25/2012 1:18:26 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Their hardware Q2 of 2012, Apple Generated $1.9 Billion in revenue from Itunes


Wow, it has gone up a lot if that's just Q2. But I'm sure their hardware revenue has gone up a lot too.

I think in the long, long term hardware will become irrelevant as the cloud takes over more and more. At the point you can access your online world from anything like a tablet, kiosk, mirror, car dash, etc. hardware will start losing its value, especially as more and more things do actual processing on the server side as bandwidth increases. Hardware will become a dumb terminal for the cloud. That's Google's long-term plan -- to get you locked into their online eco system for entertainment, business, banking, communication, etc. But that future is still at least 10 years off.


RE: No reasonable justification
By Insurgence on 10/25/2012 1:38:44 PM , Rating: 2
Just to be clear since I screwed up that sentence. They generated 1.9 Billion in Q2 of 2012 from iTunes, while it was 35 Billion Net Revenue for the same quarter. I really should have reread what I typed.

But yeah, that is still a hefty chunk of change and a pretty decent growth.


RE: No reasonable justification
By Nortel on 10/24/2012 4:30:07 PM , Rating: 2
You seem to forget Google makes no money on the Nexus 7 "Just as everyone suspected, Google is not making any money on the Nexus 7. Google Senior VP of Mobile Andy Rubin confirmed after the keynote that "When [the Nexus 7] gets sold though the Play store, there's no margin, it just basically gets sold through." Google is looking to generate profit from the Nexus 7 by advertising and Google Play content sales."

So... how can anyone POSSIBLY say Apple has overpriced a product when the competition is all making NO money.


RE: No reasonable justification
By amanojaku on 10/24/2012 4:44:19 PM , Rating: 3
Supposedly, the Nexus 7 has twice the number of cores as the iPad Mini, twice the RAM, greater resolution, and equivalent storage at a lower cost.

The iPad Mini is just a few grams lighter and has a larger screen. Even if Google raised the cost to make a profit, the Nexus 7 is still the better deal.


RE: No reasonable justification
By Nortel on 10/24/2012 4:53:56 PM , Rating: 2
iPad Mini has 0.9" larger screen, much thinner (0.28 vs 0.41), lighter (10.9oz vs 12oz, actually has rear facing camera and 5mp at that. Plus the whole plastic vs milled aluminum debate.

There are arguments on both fronts but I don't think too many people are looking at spec sheets when buying a tablet.

1024x768 vs 1280x800 isn't much of an advantage for the Nexus but it is there.


RE: No reasonable justification
By fteoath64 on 10/26/2012 1:48:57 AM , Rating: 2
One more point in the comparison. The fact that the back camera on the Mini is way better than the competition will make the sale for a segment of customers out there. eg Instagram users like kids would prefer a better camera at the expense of lesser screen resolution. This fact while not a criterion for US based users, maybe key selling points in other countries. One can safely say that below 18 year old kids would prefer this tablet compared to an Android one. It will end up being the majority of mini users over time.

Note on the $329 pricing. Users are saying just one out of 6 models priced at $299 or a bit less is going to make a huge difference and hardly make a dent in the overall profit since margins for the other 5 models are way big anyway. LTE models bundled with carriers make obscene levels of margins over the life of the contract!.


RE: No reasonable justification
By augiem on 10/25/12, Rating: 0
RE: No reasonable justification
By augiem on 10/25/2012 4:07:39 AM , Rating: 2
My link was not accurate. When using that link, it compares the TOP benchmarks, not average, so any overclockers may be throwing off the results.

These are the results using averaged data:
http://www.glbenchmark.com/phonedetails.jsp?D=Appl...
http://www.glbenchmark.com/phonedetails.jsp?D=Goog...

Results gleaned from these: (iPad2 framerate / Nexus 7 framerate)
GLBenchmark 2.5 Egypt HD C24Z16 - Offscreen (1080p): 13.3 fps / 9.1 fps
GLBenchmark 2.5 Egypt HD C24Z16 - Onscreen: 21.5 fps / 13.5 fps
GLBenchmark 2.5 Egypt HD Fixed Timestep - Oncreen: 18.6 fps / 11.2
GLBenchmark 2.5 Egypt HD Fixed Timestep - Offscreen (1080p): 11.0 fps / 7.9 fps
GLBenchmark 2.1 Egypt Classic - Onscreen: 58.8 fps / 53.9 fps
GLBenchmark 2.1 Egypt Classic - Offscreen: 48.5 fps / 30.9 fps


RE: No reasonable justification
By augiem on 10/25/2012 1:21:22 PM , Rating: 2
Wow, you guys downrate a truthful statement WITH proof of how going by cores can be misleading? Man, you people shock me. You call yourself hardware geeks? Give me a break.

Just because the cards don't fall the way you want them to at the moment is no reason to hide the truth. I'm no ideologue. If something's faster, I want to know its faster regardless of who is making it.


RE: No reasonable justification
By bsd228 on 10/25/2012 2:05:03 PM , Rating: 2
> Sadly, Tegra 3 is core crazy but that doesn't translate into stellar performance. The Tegra 3 GPU is 12 core and can't beat a 2 core PowerVR SGX543MP2:

Twice the cores referred to cpu, not gpu. And in that regard, tegra3 is indeed faster. Browser display and the like. But on the gpu front, you're correct - the PowerVR tends to win out (though I don't know how this one compares). So for gaming oriented stuff, there probably is an advantage. I personally don't game with my tablets in a substantial way, so it's a secondary consideration.


RE: No reasonable justification
By augiem on 10/25/2012 5:38:57 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Twice the cores referred to cpu, not gpu. And in that regard, tegra3 is indeed faster. Browser display and the like.


I'm not totally sure which CPU is faster to be honest, but from what I see in Anand's review, he ONLY tested browser benchmarks and GPU. Browser benchmarks aren't really a good CPU comparison because they're using different browsers. In other words, you're testing software as much as hardware.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/6073/the-google-nexu...

http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2012/07/divine-inte...

This review shows Linpack scores. In single threaded mode, iPad 2 beats Nexus 7 by 87.5%, and in multi-threaded mode, iPad beats Nexus 7 by a marginal 0.04%. Geekbench is the only benchmark where the Nexus 7 wins.

So, per my original point, you can't just say because something has more cores its more powerful. (2 vs 4 here). I wish there were better and more definitive benchmarks to compare these guys, but from what I've seen, I don't see the Tegra 3 being faster in CPU or GPU in most benchmarks that don't also have a built-in problem like relying on what browser you're using.


RE: No reasonable justification
By augiem on 10/25/2012 6:23:53 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
iPad beats Nexus 7 by a marginal 0.04%.


iPad beats Nexus 7 by a marginal 4.0%.


RE: No reasonable justification
By Jeffk464 on 10/24/2012 8:33:14 PM , Rating: 2
Makes sense to me. Apple fan's think they are getting a premium product so charge them a premium price. Apple isn't going to compete on a price per feature basis.


Apple fans
By KC7SWH on 10/24/2012 2:11:56 PM , Rating: 4
If apple builds it the fans will buy it regardless of how overpriced it is.




RE: Apple fans
By Nortel on 10/24/12, Rating: -1
RE: Apple fans
By NellyFromMA on 10/24/2012 2:45:42 PM , Rating: 1
Ch-yup


RE: Apple fans
By augiem on 10/24/2012 2:54:11 PM , Rating: 2
It's always been like this. (I know. My Uncle and his son have been devout Apple followers all the way back into the 80's.) They were likely the ones who kept the boat afloat through their dark age. But the major difference between then and now is just the sheer number of dedicated Apple fans.


RE: Apple fans
By amanojaku on 10/24/2012 4:09:26 PM , Rating: 5
When you pay too much for the iPad, you get ripped off.

When you get ripped off, you start going into denial.

When you start going into denial, you see the reality distortion field.

When you see the reality distortion field, your common sense vanishes.

When your common sense vanishes, you start speaking gibberish.

When you start speaking gibberish, you major in marketing.

And when you major in marketing, you end up as a guy named Phil Schiller.

Don't end up as a guy named Phil Schiller.


RE: Apple fans
By zero2dash on 10/24/2012 5:45:15 PM , Rating: 3
You sir win 1 internets.


RE: Apple fans
By Tony Swash on 10/24/12, Rating: -1
RE: Apple fans
By Cheesew1z69 on 10/24/2012 6:53:44 PM , Rating: 2
Fun huh, I bet it is when you live in your own little fantasy land like you do.


RE: Apple fans
By Tony Swash on 10/25/12, Rating: -1
RE: Apple fans
By Cheesew1z69 on 10/25/2012 10:52:04 AM , Rating: 1
When I look in the toilet after taking a shit, I think of you.

Life, you really should get one!

You are a loser and it's quite obvious at this point.

Fuckin Troll....


RE: Apple fans
By amanojaku on 10/25/2012 10:59:57 AM , Rating: 2
I forgot that you live in the UK, so my parody went over your head.

Here's the inspiration.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pb8z5tQK9lU


RE: Apple fans
By glenco on 10/24/2012 10:15:57 PM , Rating: 1
yawn


Yes they will.
By cochy on 10/24/2012 2:10:28 PM , Rating: 2
Why? Cause Apple has always been premium priced. Is this news? People complaining about the price have not been around Apple very long I guess.




RE: Yes they will.
By augiem on 10/24/2012 2:41:08 PM , Rating: 2
It's not Apple buyers complaining.


RE: Yes they will.
By Spuke on 10/24/2012 3:15:11 PM , Rating: 2
Honestly, I don't have a problem with the price. It's not ridiculous (like the Mac Books, iMac, and other stuff) and the extra loot could be attributed to better features (than Nexus 7). I don't like the screen res at all and I despise iTunes so no go for me. I wasn't going to get a N7 either because of the lack of HDMI but the upcoming 32GB is compelling.


RE: Yes they will.
By kmmatney on 10/24/2012 4:06:12 PM , Rating: 2
iTunes shouldn't matter. You just connect once to activate it, and then you can delete iTunes and never use it again. Edit: I'm pretty sure you don't even need iTunes at all now - just activate through WiFi. I don't even use iTunes to transfer over pictures and movies to my computer, I just use iFile (and I even like iTunes - I use it for managing my 20 GB music collection).


RE: Yes they will.
By Spuke on 10/24/2012 5:51:42 PM , Rating: 2
LOL! Some of you guys are amazing! Ok, maybe not. Here's what I'm GOING to do. I'm not buying the Mini because I don't like the screen res and I don't want to install iTunes. Don't have to install iTunes you say? I still don't like the screen res (and I sure as hell don't want a 4:3 screen...yuck). The N7's res is bare minimum IMO.


RE: Yes they will.
By EnzoFX on 10/24/2012 7:20:28 PM , Rating: 1
What's amazing is these so called apple haters, come on here WANTING to like their products. They must want to of course. How else can you explain disappointment from their expectations. For you to say even compare them to your almighty N7, means you were within the realm of consideration. If it's not for you, move on. You're just another one of those who put too much weight on specs. I'm not saying specs don't matter, they absolutely do to a huge extent, but it is not the only thing on the table to consider in a product that needs to be well rounded by many regards. No one is trying to sell you an apple product, so why come on here and baiting for someone to convince you of it. You can see it as feeding trolls or you can see it as just pointless...


RE: Yes they will.
By Spuke on 10/24/2012 7:30:10 PM , Rating: 2
Specs DO matter!! I look at specs when I buy electronics. I want certain features. If the device has them and the price is good, I'm all in. I'm not buying a house where emotions play a heavy role, I'm buying electronics. LOL! The device MUST meet my specifications or I'm NOT interested. Simple stuff dude! How did I bait? I said specifically why I'm NOT interested. No baiting needed. Also, I'm a hater because I decide I don't like something because it doesn't meet my expectations? I suppose using your logic, you're a hater too because you don't like the N7, Nook or anything else not Apple. And calling me a troll? As much as I post here now I'm a troll. Maybe I should change my name to HaterTroll.


RE: Yes they will.
By EnzoFX on 10/24/2012 9:28:35 PM , Rating: 2
You're all over the place. I said specs matter, what I said was that there are other sides to a device that is meant to cover a lot of bases. I can easily see this selling on the merit of the app store alone. I don't hate the N7, I'm actually looking to pick one up. You're sensationalizing your decision which I don't think anyone here cares about. Like I said, if it's not for you move on, it's one thing to simply comment stating that, but another to get into a useless argument about.


RE: Yes they will.
By EnzoFX on 10/24/2012 9:34:23 PM , Rating: 2
Maybe it's entirely not helped by the judgmental attitude, the !!! after every other sentence, or the retarded use of caps. I mean really?


Apple users spend more anyways they are used to it
By bebimbap on 10/24/2012 2:15:42 PM , Rating: 2
http://news.cnet.com/8301-1023_3-57460254-93/mac-u...

apple users are willing to spend $20-30 more per night in hotels for the same room than pc users




By Shadowself on 10/24/2012 2:58:41 PM , Rating: 2
An old article. Also your interpretation of what is said in that article (and Orbitz' internal tracking) is wrong.

Besides it does not say (nor does Orbitz say) that Mac users are willing to pay more for the *same* room. They are willing to pay more thus they are willing to pay the extra for different hotels or different class rooms or higher level services associated with the same room in the same hotel. Nowhere does it say Mac users are paying more for the same room and the same services.


RE: Apple users spend more anyways they are used to it
By RufusM on 10/24/2012 3:12:22 PM , Rating: 2
Orbiz found that, over time, iPhone and iPad users spend $20-$30 more on a hotel room. They don't have to compare the same rooms. The point of Orbitz was making is they tend to just spend more money, not about the value they receive from the money spent.

The insinuation is that Apple users spend more money in general and, therefore, are willing to spend more money on a tablet; in this case the iPad mini.


RE: Apple users spend more anyways they are used to it
By EnzoFX on 10/24/2012 4:43:28 PM , Rating: 2
Except you and it are making the implication that to them, it's worth it. Stop the presses, there's an premium for Apple products, yet people still buy them? All while thinking it's worth it. That's a great testament to the product.


By Solandri on 10/24/2012 5:22:24 PM , Rating: 2
It's either a great testament to the product, or it a poor testament of Apple buyers. That they're willing to pay $20-$30 more for the same hotel room means it's more likely the latter.

That's not necessarily as bad as that sounds. It could just be that Apple buyers are on average wealthier, so aren't as discriminating about price. The people who buy first class airline tickets aren't stupid with their money. It's just that they're so wealthy that the additional cost of the first class ticket is pocket change to them.

That aligns pretty closely with my recommendation for Macbooks. If the person is basically computer illiterate and pulls a decent salary, I ask them to take a look at a Mac to see if they like it. A lot of artist types with decent jobs fall into this category. If they're low-income, I usually suggest going the PC route as better value for their money. And if they're technically competent or like to control exactly what goes on with their computer, I usually discourage the Macs due to their lack of user control and upgradability.


By EnzoFX on 10/24/2012 7:15:29 PM , Rating: 2
I didn't read it, but I thought these two just said that it was indeed not the same room. Whatever. It still comes down to the ecosystem, and the user experience. For better or worse, people are drawn to iOS. You can't discount this just on specs as some people here do.

And there's something to be said for value too. It isn't so clear cut for someone seeking value, as opposed to the cheapest possible solution. All the mac's I've used have lasted many years longer, than the pc's I've gone through. People use them longer, I think it's a combination of build quality and user experience. So I often recommend a mac if it's not too much more, knowing it'll last them 2+ years longer.


By tim851 on 10/25/2012 8:06:04 AM , Rating: 2
It's not the same room.

The original Wall Street Journal article explains that on average, Mac users rent more expensive rooms. Seeing as Macs are priced as premium products, you'd expect their customers to be higher income on average.

I'm pretty sure Merc owners on average pay more for a hotel room than Toyota owners.


It's overpriced
By zlandar on 10/24/2012 2:21:45 PM , Rating: 2
I have an iPad 3, iPhone 4, and 5.

The mini is overpriced for the features.

Apple is selling a refurb iPad 3 for $379. Why in the world would you get this for less power/resolution unless you just had to get a smaller tablet?

It'll be interesting to see how this sells. No way I'm buying this unless it goes below $249.




RE: It's overpriced
By augiem on 10/24/2012 2:42:41 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Apple is selling a refurb iPad 3 for $379. Why in the world would you get this for less power/resolution unless you just had to get a smaller tablet?


You'll be able to get a refurb mini for less than $329 at some point. That's not a good comparison.


RE: It's overpriced
By kmmatney on 10/24/2012 4:13:40 PM , Rating: 2
OK, but you can get a brand new iPad 2 for $399. The problem is that they want to keep the pricing on the iPod touch at $299, so this needed to be higher (even though it has less storage). I'm a fan of the iPad, but wouldn't buy this at that price. I never found the original iPad to be too big.


RE: It's overpriced
By augiem on 10/25/2012 3:53:57 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
OK, but you can get a brand new iPad 2 for $399


Yes, so for $70 less you can lose 1.8" of screen space and nothing else. Not a bad savings. That should appeal to those who think 10" is too big or want something to carry around in their purse/backpack.

I would rather have a 7" tablet than the 10" Touchpad, but I've found tablets to be little use in general and probably won't be buying another any time in the near future.


RE: It's overpriced
By FITCamaro on 10/24/2012 6:24:51 PM , Rating: 1
While the hell would you buy it at all if you already have an iPad and two iPhones?


It'll go down to $299 after the holidays
By corduroygt on 10/24/2012 2:09:56 PM , Rating: 2
They probably don't have enough production capacity at the moment so they'll sell every one they make anyways, hence the high price. It'll go below the $300 barrier when the next iteration with the A6 chip launches in 6 months.




By CharonPDX on 10/24/2012 2:27:11 PM , Rating: 2
Yup. They know people will buy it, they know their supply can't keep up with all the demand at THIS price, so why lose out on profit?

(Or would people rather see it constantly sold out for three months at $299, where the only ones you can find are $400 on Craigslist/eBay?)


By ritualm on 10/25/2012 4:00:30 AM , Rating: 2
It'll go down to $299 temporarily for the holidays, and return to $329 after.

Fail.


ipad 4
By luv2liv on 10/24/2012 2:19:17 PM , Rating: 3
im amazed no major news network (CNN, ABC) are talking about ipad 4 yet.

it is as if Apple paid them not to talk about ipad 4




RE: ipad 4
By Steve Blowz Jobz on 10/25/12, Rating: -1
RE: ipad 4
By ritualm on 10/25/2012 3:58:44 AM , Rating: 1
There is nothing new about the iPad 3.5 - the only thing new here is a straight die-shrunk A5X chip and possibly the connector switch from 30-pin Dock to 8-pin Lightning. Meanwhile the iPad mini shrinks the iPad 2, has most of the internals of the iPhone 4S, 8-pin Lightning, and can be stuffed with an LTE radio.

Now which one is newer and more marketable?


RE: ipad 4
By testerguy on 10/25/2012 7:33:22 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
There is nothing new about the iPad 3.5 - the only thing new here is a straight die-shrunk A5X chip and possibly the connector switch from 30-pin Dock to 8-pin Lightning. Meanwhile the iPad mini shrinks the iPad 2, has most of the internals of the iPhone 4S, 8-pin Lightning, and can be stuffed with an LTE radio.


The iPad 3 was already twice as fast as any Android tablet available right now.

The new processor in the iPad 4 is the A6X, not the A5X. It offers twice the performance of the A5X for no extra cost to the customer. That translates to 4x faster than any Android tablet right now. That's massively significant.

The iPad Mini uses internal components of the iPad 2 (reduced in size), not the iPhone 4S, which is why its performance is bettered in the whole tablet market only by the iPad 3 and 4.


But I've already paid my cover charge...
By bupkus on 10/24/2012 4:50:05 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
And of course, Apple also points to 275,000 tablet-specific apps for the iPad platform versus a plethora of "stretched phone apps" for Android devices.


Now that customers have invested in Apple apps clearly they will save money by not repurchasing apps from Google Play.

IOW, they can now pay twice for the same app hidden in the purchase price.




By Spuke on 10/24/2012 5:55:33 PM , Rating: 3
Except that most Android apps are FREE not paid like Apple apps. I probably have two paid Android apps on my phone and both have free versions.


chink in the armor
By MadMan007 on 10/24/2012 4:52:59 PM , Rating: 2
First real chink in Apple's armor that goes to the heart of their business as a business I've seen in a while. (problems like maps are in a different class of software/hardware problems.) For Apple to have to defend the pricing of one of their products is a huge shift from how they operated over the last 5 years.




By jeromekwok on 10/25/2012 7:32:16 AM , Rating: 1
iPad mini has many advantages over competition. We always welcome a cheaper iPad, but the price justifies.
- Larger screen at nice aspect ratio
- Longer battery life
- Lighter and smaller
- Guaranteed timely OS updates
- Availability of various accessories
- Lots of quality apps
- No apps compatibility issues
- Malware free
- Higher resell value
- Simple and consistent interface
- Plays songs from your old iPod collection
- It looks cool




By testerguy on 10/25/2012 7:37:32 AM , Rating: 1
Airplay
Faster performance
Higher quality materials and production
5 mega-pixel rear facing camera (not included on Nexus 7)


Specs
By Dug on 10/24/12, Rating: -1
RE: Specs
By augiem on 10/24/2012 2:45:32 PM , Rating: 2
I'm really disappointed the MS Surface RT uses almost exactly the same SoC as the Nexus 7 for $599. (1.4GHz Tegra 4 vs 1.2GHz). Android makers and now Windows are just handing over the market over to Apple again and again. The only segment where Android looks really a lot more attractive is the ultra-budget section.


RE: Specs
By augiem on 10/24/2012 2:48:21 PM , Rating: 2
Oops, $499. ($599 comes with KB)


RE: Specs
By augiem on 10/24/2012 2:50:38 PM , Rating: 2
Sigh... Tegra 3


RE: Specs
By Dug on 10/24/2012 2:47:20 PM , Rating: 2
Forgot to mention better wifi, record 1080 video, and airplay.


RE: Specs
By Bubbacub on 10/24/2012 4:03:48 PM , Rating: 4
how do you make your nexus lag?

i use it all the time for decoding hd video, running a psx emulator, i often bit torrent (legal) content directly to my tablet.

i cant honestly say i get any lag.


RE: Specs
By Tanclearas on 10/24/2012 4:18:15 PM , Rating: 5
Wow. I have the exact opposite experience. My iPad 3 has been collecting dust since I received the Nexus 7. As for the Mini, I have no desire to pay the Apple Tax to get something bigger (the whole point to getting the Nexus 7 was to get something SMALLER), with noticeably worse specs. Better camera? Is that a joke? Who is going to whip out an iPad for some quality photos? More efficient? What the hell does that mean? Longer battery life? I use the 7 a fair bit every day, and have to charge it every 3 or 4 days. I guess some day when I'm stranded on an island with no power, I will agree with you. Until then, the point is moot.

As for the whole "apps work better/we've got more apps" crap, there are only a handful of apps that anybody is really going to want, and the quality, non-free apps that people actually want for either platform amounts to a whole lot less than 275,000. For me, I have had no problem finding good quality apps for my needs on EITHER platform.

If you believe the iPad has no lag, you're really fooling yourself.


RE: Specs
By testerguy on 10/25/12, Rating: 0
RE: Specs
By testerguy on 10/25/2012 7:38:53 AM , Rating: 1
Also, the Nexus 7 has no rear facing camera.


RE: Specs
By Tanclearas on 10/25/2012 12:26:43 PM , Rating: 3
Drop the distortion field.

The whole reason I use the Nexus 7 so much is because it's smaller than the iPad 3 while still having a large enough screen to comfortably view documents, web pages, etc. The iPad mini having a larger screen is NOT "superior".

The weight difference is negligible, but I will at least give you that.

Thinner is not always better, especially for a tablet. I actually prefer the size of the iPad and iPad 3 (I have both) over the iPad 2 (I have several at work). I do not find it comfortable holding the iPad 2.

quote:
it has basically no useful tablet optimised apps

You CLEARLY have no clue WTF you're talking about.

I did take another look at the Anandtech Nexus 7 review. I see that the iPad 2 performed well in a single GPU benchmark, mostly in off-screen rendered tests. Perhaps you are ignoring the page about SoC performance that shows the Nexus 7 outperforming the iPad 2?

The QC issues with the Nexus 7 were unfortunate, but were easily addressed by most people on their own with no need for RMA. It doesn't change the fact that the Nexus 7 is a far better choice than the iPad mini.


RE: Specs
By Cheesew1z69 on 10/25/2012 12:37:03 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
Drop the distortion field.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAH, that's his LIFE dude. Defending Apple. He will NEVER drop it. He is just as much a loser as Tony and a few others here.


RE: Specs
By augiem on 10/25/2012 1:44:43 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I did take another look at the Anandtech Nexus 7 review. I see that the iPad 2 performed well in a single GPU benchmark, mostly in off-screen rendered tests.


Actually, Anand's GPU tests only used GLBench 2.1, and the on-screen tests are frame-rate limited to 60fps, so they are not a good comparison of speed.

Here are links to GLBench showing averaged user benchmarks for iPad 2 and Nexus 7. These results are averaged, because if you use the Max results, overclockers skew the results (and of course there are more Android overclockers than iPad overclockers).

http://www.glbenchmark.com/phonedetails.jsp?D=Appl...
http://www.glbenchmark.com/phonedetails.jsp?D=Goog...

Going over those results, the iPad averages 42.55% faster than Nexus 7 at graphics. That's not insignificant.

GLBenchmark 2.5 Egypt HD C24Z16 - Offscreen (1080p): iPad2 46% faster
GLBenchmark 2.5 Egypt HD C24Z16 - Onscreen: iPad2 59% faster GLBenchmark 2.5 Egypt HD Fixed Timestep - Oncreen: iPad2 66% faster
GLBenchmark 2.5 Egypt HD Fixed Timestep - Offscreen (1080p): iPad2 39% faster
GLBenchmark 2.1 Egypt Classic - Onscreen: iPad2 9% faster
GLBenchmark 2.1 Egypt Classic - Offscreen: iPad2 %36.3 faster

I am no Apple fan, I don't own any of their products (nor will I ever because of their patent practices.) I am however interested in computer hardware, therefore I am interested in knowing what is the fastest out there regardless of who makes it.

Intel will be including the PowerVR SGX on their upcoming Clover Field Atom SoC's, but sadly they're going with a single core as opposed to Apple's dual (iPad2/mini) and quad (iPad3). So in terms of GPU power, there are no tablets on the market that can equal Apple's at the moment.

Adreno 320 disappoints, but Tegra 4, and the new Mali, are due soon, but so is PowerVR SGX 6 series... The drama continues.


RE: Specs
By augiem on 10/25/2012 1:48:37 PM , Rating: 2
I failed to note up there that the on-screen tests aren't perfectly equal with the iPad2 pushing 786,432 pixels/frame where the Nexus 7 pushes 1,024,000 pixels/frame, which does reduce the lead the iPad2 by some in the on-screen tests.


RE: Specs
By augiem on 10/25/2012 1:50:14 PM , Rating: 2
My iPad2 link above is broken. Trying again:
http://www.glbenchmark.com/phonedetails.jsp?D=Appl...


RE: Specs
By augiem on 10/25/2012 1:51:29 PM , Rating: 2
God... The Nexus 7 link is broken too. Trying again:

http://www.glbenchmark.com/phonedetails.jsp?D=Goog...


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