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Flash on the iPhone? Don't bet on it. Apple CEO Steve Jobs says its evil in almost every way imaginable.  (Source: Apple)
Jobs adds that Apple got people to ditch floppy disks and CD, will get people to ditch Flash

In the wake of the iPad launch, Apple CEO Steven P. Jobs launched into a cross-country media tour.  Even as his much ballyhooed tablet was being picked apart by critics who questioned its ability to serve as a competent eBook reader, Mr. Jobs visited The Wall Street Journal and other major news industry players in an effort to boost the device's public perception.

However, Mr. Jobs found the folks at the 
WSJ were asking him the same question, a question that had infuriated him time after time -- "Why doesn't the i<device> have Flash?"

Jobs' mobile devices boycott of Flash, one of the most widely used internet formats, is close to extraordinary.  Even Microsoft, who has its own competitive format (Silverlight) has cooperated with Adobe in ensuring Flash runs smoothly on Windows PCs and is ported to Windows smartphones.  Apple, meanwhile, has been almost the only major player to play the role of Flash obstructionist.

Apple has its reasons.  Flash on a base level provides a very real threat to Apple's lucrative App Store, one of the key things that it uses to differentiate the iPod Touch/iPhone/iPad from its competitors.  If Apple adopted Flash, many of its developers could move to Flash which would free them of the restrictions of Apple's App Store approval process.  And that would ultimately ruin the exclusivity of Apple's app catalog and make Apple vulnerable to handsets with superior hardware.  Also, with Flash customers could simply view TV episodes from Hulu for free, rather than buy them from Apple's iTunes store.

To try to obscure this fact, Mr. Jobs has stepped up his attacks on the format.  At the 
WSJ meeting, he reportedly called Flash a "CPU hog" and a source of "security holes."  And he smartly jabbed, "We don't spend a lot of energy on old technology."

He then claimed that Apple was responsible for getting people to abandon a host of technologies including floppy drives (by lack of inclusion in the iMac), old data ports (including its own), CCFL-backlit LCD screens (Apple now uses LED backlighting), and, most questionably, CDs (he says CDs are dying due to Apple's iPod, iTunes Store, CD-ripping software and the "Rip, Mix, Burn" campaign).  The reality distortion field seems particularly in full blast with the last claim, as there were 300 million CDs sold last year (that's 80 percent of all album sales industry-wide).

He followed those dubious claims with another.  Apple will get people to abandon Flash.

Flash, he argues is simply no good.  It crashes Macs (granted, Macs have had plenty of problems recently with nary a Flash app in sight) and runs too slow for his tastes.  He also claims that Flash would reduce the iPad's battery life from 10 hours to 1.5 hours.

He says it would be "trivial" for online content providers to bow to Apple's will and replace Flash content with H.264 video codecs.  To an extent he may be right on this point -- the H.264+HTML5 movement is gaining momentum.  However, even here Apple is trying to control what is and isn't allowed.  HTML 5 can also be made to support the free Ogg Theora codecs, but Apple has tried to block that, in favor of the expensive, proprietary H.264 format, a source of a growing squabble.  Ultimately, regardless of which format is embraced HTML5, though, seems unlikely to be able to offer as deep user input and particularly the graphics-generation libraries as Flash.



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lolJobs
By gibb3h on 2/19/2010 11:19:16 AM , Rating: 5
why does anyone buy crap from this tool?




RE: lolJobs
By amanojaku on 2/19/2010 11:31:38 AM , Rating: 5
Jobs is not the tool, he is the master manipulator. It's his worshipers that are tools, and they make up the majority of Apple customers.


RE: lolJobs
By Motoman on 2/19/2010 11:42:51 AM , Rating: 5
It's his worshipers that are tools, and they are Apple customers.

...fixed it for you.


RE: lolJobs
By reader1 on 2/19/10, Rating: -1
RE: lolJobs
By rmlarsen on 2/19/2010 3:22:47 PM , Rating: 5
Yeah, we heard you the first time, Steve. Repeating this BS just makes me want to flush my iPhone down the toilet.


RE: lolJobs
By reader1 on 2/19/10, Rating: -1
RE: lolJobs
By Kurz on 2/19/2010 3:57:26 PM , Rating: 5
What is HTML 5 then?


RE: lolJobs
By reader1 on 2/19/10, Rating: -1
RE: lolJobs
By inighthawki on 2/19/2010 4:55:39 PM , Rating: 5
Trolling doesn't work nearly as well when you say that something completely unrelated to the first thing does a superior job at doing its job...


RE: lolJobs
By althaz on 2/20/2010 1:50:46 AM , Rating: 3
To be fair I'm not sure such ridiculous comments actually should count as trolling. Hell, they are insane enough to be slightly humorous :).


RE: lolJobs
By atlmann10 on 2/20/2010 2:11:29 AM , Rating: 3
reader1 do you smoke drano or something, I find your comments to be utter comedy like everyone else does. Wow though you just say the absolute stupidest things. Maybe I should not poke fun you could be slow or mentally handicapped or something.


RE: lolJobs
By SiN on 2/20/2010 10:24:11 AM , Rating: 2
Why does he get rated down. We should embrace his negative input. Give him his own blog!


RE: lolJobs
By Kurz on 2/20/2010 12:07:41 PM , Rating: 1
PSssh I don't want to entitle this fool.
Let him get his own blog.


RE: lolJobs
By Omega215D on 2/20/2010 12:17:10 PM , Rating: 3
He posts this kind of stuff on other tech sites as well. I've seen the name reader1 pop up on Apple or MS related news.


RE: lolJobs
By DaveSylvia on 2/20/2010 1:59:58 PM , Rating: 1
Dude, your iPhone uses its connection to the INTERNET to access the App Store. Competitor? No. Just Stop.

Gah it BAFFLES the mind!! AREN'T YOU USING THE INTERNET, considered "first generation junk", to post on DT!?


RE: lolJobs
By reader1 on 2/20/10, Rating: -1
RE: lolJobs
By inighthawki on 2/20/2010 5:12:01 PM , Rating: 5
Last I checked, replacing a word with a synonym doesn't change the meaning of a sentence...


RE: lolJobs
By reader1 on 2/20/10, Rating: -1
RE: lolJobs
By inighthawki on 2/20/2010 6:25:55 PM , Rating: 5
They are in the context that you used them.


RE: lolJobs
By Pirks on 2/21/2010 8:44:07 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
"Web" and "Internet" aren't synonyms
I still don't understand how does apple app store replace web? Web is used for googling and retreiveing information in general, all kinds of information, and also buying selling all kinds of stuff, doing all sorts of business etc, while app store is used to sell iPhone apps, some music and a bit of videos. Do you see that app store is just a tiny subset of the web in general? I don't understand how can you equate an entity with its tiny subset. Please elaborate.


RE: lolJobs
By jbizzler on 2/21/2010 2:35:12 PM , Rating: 2
The Web and the Internet aren't synonyms. The Web is the whole of all websites accessible through the Internet.

If I'm playing a game over the Internet that doesn't have anything to do with a website, then it's the Internet and not the Web.

That being said, how the heck does the App Store replace the Web? The only overlap is they're both software distribution mediums, but the Web is also for information exchange.


RE: lolJobs
By Gio6518 on 2/22/2010 1:54:33 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
I still don't understand how does apple app store replace web?


simply put if steve jobs doesnt have a web wrapper on itunes reader1 believes people wont want to go there or feel a need to go there.....


RE: lolJobs
By Akrovah on 2/22/2010 2:15:27 PM , Rating: 3
I understand that there is kind of an automatic "downrate Pirks" thing around here, I've done it a couple of times myself, but in this instance he is actually making a very good point, so why the downrate?


RE: lolJobs
By inighthawki on 2/22/2010 6:32:31 PM , Rating: 2
Maybe I missed the low of that specific post, but if it is the 1 you are referring to, it is likely caused by replying to a -1 post, which immediately rates yours a 1.


RE: lolJobs
By Gio6518 on 2/22/2010 1:51:49 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Dude, your iPhone uses its connection to the INTERNET to access the App Store.


your not grasping his idea

you need to think like an apple nut job

you gotta remember apple has 120,000 apps and around 100,000 are web wrappers you have to pay anywhere from a couple bucks to a monthly subscription to view, and those are set up to be able to view without flash.

dont misunderstand not backing him just explaining his stupid viewpoint


RE: lolJobs
By LobsterDK on 2/20/2010 5:30:23 PM , Rating: 5
Meaningless, like watermelons. Helicopters are the first true competitor to watermelons and will be more successful due to their more effective flight characteristics. Watermelons are first generation junk.


RE: lolJobs
By CvP on 2/21/2010 12:34:37 PM , Rating: 2
Sir, you've made my day. thank you :)


RE: lolJobs
By Ristogod on 2/22/2010 9:30:01 AM , Rating: 4
That was pretty funny.

Honestly though, I like that guys like reader1 are on the Apple team. With idiots like that, its a guarantee that they'll always be a trendy little fad instead of a worthwhile competitor.


RE: lolJobs
By damianrobertjones on 2/22/10, Rating: 0
RE: lolJobs
By Motoman on 2/19/2010 4:01:26 PM , Rating: 5
It's amazing that someone as moronic as you are can manage to continue to exist.


RE: lolJobs
By twjr on 2/19/2010 4:48:29 PM , Rating: 5
That's only because Steve hasn't told him to stop breathing yet.


RE: lolJobs
By twhittet on 2/19/2010 6:28:02 PM , Rating: 5
Is there an app for that? I want it.


RE: lolJobs
By christojojo on 2/22/2010 4:44:50 PM , Rating: 3
its called the iBreath. It comes with a battery and a free 5 minutes of air. Just enough to click on the hourly payment plan.


RE: lolJobs
By ebakke on 2/22/10, Rating: 0
RE: lolJobs
By n0ebert on 2/24/2010 10:26:52 AM , Rating: 2
"The economy never would have collapsed if more American companies were as innovative and hard working as Apple. They're thriving in one of the worst economic periods in history without relying on a monopoly, like Microsoft and Google do."

It's funny you say that since apple uses their own monopoly practices to strongarm anyone who disagrees with them. The only reason they're not called on it is because of their market share.


RE: lolJobs
By hughlle on 2/19/2010 3:46:11 PM , Rating: 1
hahahaha, you're funny. can you be my friend. among other things, if windows is a thing of the past, then what is apple, they enver even got around to having games coded for them they were such a pathetic market share :)


RE: lolJobs
By reader1 on 2/19/10, Rating: -1
RE: lolJobs
By Kurz on 2/19/2010 4:33:40 PM , Rating: 3
What Monopoly?
It just more supported by Third party developers.

There are similar programs for both MAC and Linux.
The only thing Microsoft has a monopoly on is the DirectX.

IPAD isn't even a full fledged computer
Its not the same market.


RE: lolJobs
By reader1 on 2/19/10, Rating: -1
RE: lolJobs
By bodar on 2/19/2010 4:58:36 PM , Rating: 1
More consumers might buy Apple if they could afford it, but they can't, and Apple is perfectly fine with that. Many people also don't want to buy into the App Store business model where I might be able to find a free app that does what I want. Finally, many consumers use computers for gaming, which is a joke on Macs. That's why Apple will always be a highly profitable, but niche market.


RE: lolJobs
By bodar on 2/19/2010 5:15:47 PM , Rating: 2
That's not even counting the businesses who depend on custom apps built off of Windows platforms, or who are already invested in things like Exchange.


RE: lolJobs
By PrezWeezy on 2/19/2010 6:49:25 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
The Windows monopoly prevents MacOS X and Linux from gaining significant market share.


Having more customers does not make you a monopoly. It means people like you more. If Apple had a product which competed in all of the areas important to it's market it would have a larger market share.


RE: lolJobs
By jbizzler on 2/21/2010 2:50:39 PM , Rating: 3
It's not necessarily about being liked more. One example: Microsoft products like Windows and Office are used almost exclusively in public schools. We're teaching a generation how to use proprietary products so as consumers they buy what they were taught to use.

At the same time, computers in schools aren't taken proper care of and become slow and buggy. When a students sees a brand-new, responsive Mac, they fall in love and Macbooks are used by huge numbers of college students. But they still use Microsoft Office, so it's not a big problem for Microsoft.


RE: lolJobs
By Targon on 2/22/2010 9:28:38 AM , Rating: 4
You have missed a bit of the puzzle when it comes to why Apple has been doing very well.

Students may gravitate towards the faster machines, but how do schools choose what computers to put out there? Think about that for a moment.

Is it based on what computers are the most widely used in the business/corporate world? If that was the case, then you would almost never see Apple computers used anywhere except in trade schools where the focus is on art or desktop publishing. The vast majority of businesses out there use Windows based machines for workstations.

Is it based on the hardware? If you look at Apple today, the machines are all Intel based, and not even the fastest products available. The only real area where Apple has an advantage is the very high quality displays(which have had quality problems in the past few months). So, except for the displays, Apple computers have zero advantages when it comes to the hardware, and for most schools, getting the very best for the students is almost never the reason for doing anything.

No, the basic way things work is what price the schools end up paying for machines, and what kickbacks are paid to school and district officials to select one computer over another. And, with the way the PC market has many different vendors, what ONE company is out there that has the money to give amazing discounts to schools?

Dell isn't run by technical people, or people with a real grasp of how the computer industry really works. Michael Dell, for his flaws, had a grasp of how things worked, but he isn't running the company anymore. HP doesn't think about pushing into the schools for brand name recognition. The list goes on, but Apple is the only big name computer company that has been pushing their products in the schools, and this has lead to their growth over the past five years.

Apple is in a weird place, because if MacOS were opened to non-Apple computer hardware, there would be a huge surge in use of MacOS, but the hardware division of Apple would crash as people discover that Apple computers are not any better when it comes to hardware. So, the ONLY tool that Apple has is to let schools get Apple computers for a VERY cheap price, and that pushes students who are now more familiar with them to ask their parents for an Apple.


RE: lolJobs
By atlmann10 on 2/20/2010 2:14:19 AM , Rating: 1
reader1 do you smoke drano or something, I find your comments to be utter comedy like everyone else does. Wow though you just say the absolute stupidest things. Maybe I should not poke fun you could be slow or mentally handicapped!


RE: lolJobs
By Akrovah on 2/22/2010 2:26:44 PM , Rating: 3
In Mac's case though, they did it to themselves. Your oh so precious closed system that you vaunt and hold up as what everyone should do is exactly what caused the Mac to have such a small market share. MS didn't always have an OS monopoly, it was built over several years. Apple retained control, not allowing anyone else to build a compatible system, for fear of competition. MS and IBM licensed their platform out, causing hundreds of IBM clones to be created. Sheer market saturation because of IBM's open platform is what gave MS the OS monopoly it has today, and the reason Mac was never able to catch up was because they charged more, and because they woudln;t let anyone else make one. They shot themselves in the foot. So blame Apple and thier greed rather than MS for taking advantage of it.

And Linux never caught on I suspect mostly due to the lack of info and support when all this was going on. Now it may be easy to find answers if you can;t get it to work, but back before the Internet I imagine it was probably pretty difficult to make use of unless you were an uber-geek.


RE: lolJobs
By djc208 on 2/19/2010 4:58:36 PM , Rating: 2
I think you just proved his point.


RE: lolJobs
By themaster08 on 2/19/2010 5:27:36 PM , Rating: 2
I'm sorry, Reader1, but you're under the sad misapprehension that if a closed platform solely existed, we would all just bend over and take it.

A mass-scale closed platform would be impossible to establish. There would be far too many people rebelling. And the rebels would win.

Apple are already having a hard time stopping a 20 year old from allowing for jailbreaking their iPhones.

With that said though, it's not a stretch to imagine Apple attempting to snuff rebels out. After all, that's the type of company they are, isn't it?


RE: lolJobs
By reader1 on 2/19/10, Rating: -1
RE: lolJobs
By themaster08 on 2/19/2010 6:52:35 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
There won't be just one closed platform, there will be many.

Regardless. The more closed platforms exist, the more there will be rebelling against it.

quote:
People use the open PC and Internet to hack closed-platform devices. Closing the PC and Internet would stop that.

Yeah, it might stop a teenager in his basement from creating hacking software, but it won't stop developers.

quote:
The cancellation of Alan Wake on the PC is further evidence that open platforms are unsustainable.

I guess that's why as of January 2010 there are more than 25 million active Steam accounts.


RE: lolJobs
By Kurz on 2/20/2010 9:31:43 AM , Rating: 1
Wow... where are you pulling your facts from?
Windows is great since it is open.
Linux will always be open.

What stops someone from developing hacks on an older non open platform? Sorry people for the most part want an open system.

The reason why closed platforms for gaming is that its easily accessable. You turn it on and play.
While a computer game is more complicated you have to have
1. Latest drivers (Easy to install)
2. Enough space on harddrive for install.
3. Past 6 years you probably can't run the latest greatest games. Though compared to consoles they are pretty simular about 6-7 before new hardware comes out.

You need good enough hardware to run X.
The hardware for PC is usually of better quality and is less likely to overheat (Unless you game on a laptop).
Though most minimum requirements are usually 6 Gen behind current generation of hardware (Still run a x1950XT ATI card and yes at Med Qauilty and decent resolutions I can Play Crysis).


RE: lolJobs
By Reclaimer77 on 2/20/2010 10:26:30 AM , Rating: 5
quote:
Wow... where are you pulling your facts from?


It's reader1, he doesn't use facts.


RE: lolJobs
By Pirks on 2/21/10, Rating: -1
RE: lolJobs
By Alexstarfire on 2/21/2010 2:26:20 PM , Rating: 3
I suppose we should try out a totalitarian dictatorship then? I mean, I've never actually experienced one, but I should try it out shouldn't I? There are some things you don't need to experience first hand to know they are bad..... like falling into an active volcano. I don't like the way Apple operates, much like the way EA and Ubisoft are operating now, and henceforth they will not get my business. I don't give companies money if I don't like the way they operate. They say the best way to speak is with your wallet, and I agree.


RE: lolJobs
By Kurz on 2/21/2010 9:32:19 PM , Rating: 2
OMG Moron!
Its the same thing for both MACS and PC's.
You need to download drivers!

You cant just turn on and play on a MAC.
You need to install it have the appropriate drivers.
And you need the space, and have the appropriate specs.
Its the same ordeal as a PC.


RE: lolJobs
By Gio6518 on 2/22/2010 2:08:25 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
That's exactly the reason why Apple products are so popular


apple products have never been popular until the ipod and the only reason that caught the publics eye, is not for great interfaces or building materials, (couldn't tell you how many times that piece of crap froze up and you have to hold the center button and menu button to reset) the reason it caught on is simple the MP3 players out on the market were a pathetic 128 to 512 mb, then apple released 30 to 60 gb, and made it possible for people to hold their entire music collection, and some video, and admittly it was a brilliant idea.........iPhone again wasnt innovative it was all done before the iPod even came out again it was storage space and peoples comfortability with their iPods.....

iPhones still havent surpassed blackberry sales or even come close, and i can almost guarantee that android OS sales have already surpassed iPhone sales.....you have to take into account how many android handsets there are and in reality theyre just competing with themselves...the droid alone comes pretty close not counting droid eris, hero, moment, etc. etc. etc. if you were to add them all up their total sales might even have passed up blackberry


RE: lolJobs
By Akrovah on 2/22/2010 2:39:57 PM , Rating: 2
I do, in fact, have an open mind. Hence I prefer open systems, where I get to choose what software I install, what components I use, what I do with said hardware and software combinations. Apple denies some and/or all of these freedoms (depending on which device you are talking about) as is thier right as the menufatucrer of the product, but I will never use a closed platform that forces me to bend to the will of some corporate overloard telling me what I should want. I can make up my own mind about that, thanks.


RE: lolJobs
By jbizzler on 2/21/2010 2:58:38 PM , Rating: 2
How do you propose the Internet get "closed"? There would have to be MASSIVE changes in the political world first, ones that I can only imagine coming about from a world war or alien invasion.

And there are several free/open hardware movements in their infancy. If platforms start getting too closed/proprietary, open ones would rise. They'd be slow, but the freedom fighters would feel it worthwhile.


RE: lolJobs
By JonB on 2/19/2010 7:53:14 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
reader1 has posted a total of 578 comments at DailyTech, the average comment rating was -0.10.


That's a lot of posts for such a low rating. Your self esteem may be as inflated as Mr. Jobs.


RE: lolJobs
By atlmann10 on 2/20/10, Rating: -1
RE: lolJobs
By christojojo on 2/22/2010 4:42:29 PM , Rating: 1
Read you are the reason I shudder every time I see a Mac or other Apple product. I think you guys would buy an inflatable Steve jobs for matrimonial pleasure if he told you spouses were out of date and crashed the system.


RE: lolJobs
By The0ne on 2/19/2010 1:13:40 PM , Rating: 5
As an Engineer, I can only say WTF!!! and then stare in shock and awe at the millions buying into this pile of sht.

I can see this behavior clearly, with my coworkers and Anand's undying devotion to use adjectives like Job does to describe the products. I just can't understand how "smart" people would buy into this sht.

My coworkers are nice and bright but when it comes to Apple and Beck they will defend it on their life, it seems. All you can do is really just be shocked and then quietly walk away until they calm down.


RE: lolJobs
By dgingeri on 2/19/2010 2:48:56 PM , Rating: 3
As a support tech, I can only say "WTF?!?!" as I think about the $5000 PowerMac they took over a year to fix, the 3 of 5 iMacs we got for the help desk that came DOA and having to haul them to a Mac store to get them replaced, and the 3 hour phone call to convince them to replace my 3 month old iPod Nano and the 3 weeks it took to get the replacement.

Apple's hardware reliability sucks. Their service sucks. Their OS sucks. Their CEO sucks.

The fact of the matter is that most people are stupid. They go where they're lead, not to where they should go. They want what they're told to want, not what they really want or need.


RE: lolJobs
By reader1 on 2/19/10, Rating: -1
RE: lolJobs
By steven975 on 2/19/2010 5:07:47 PM , Rating: 3
sorry, but even WMP is better than iTunes. Buy it on Amazon, sync it to the Droid. It just works...


RE: lolJobs
By reader1 on 2/19/10, Rating: -1
RE: lolJobs
By themaster08 on 2/19/2010 6:19:06 PM , Rating: 5
quote:
That's too complicated for most people.

Ah, the joys of having a brain. It gives you the ability to learn.


RE: lolJobs
By reader1 on 2/19/10, Rating: -1
RE: lolJobs
By themaster08 on 2/20/2010 5:08:58 AM , Rating: 2
I'm sorry, but some of the most computer illiterate people I know, know how to download a song and sync it to a device using WMP, or even copy and paste it to mass storage.

Funnily enough, most people I know download their music for their iPod's from places other than iTunes.

It's not work, it's common sense. You underestimate peoples' ability to think for themselves. It's far more rewarding than having someone else do something for you, and can even save you a pretty penny. Perhaps you should try it some time.


RE: lolJobs
By mojo1973 on 2/20/2010 6:30:34 PM , Rating: 2
I am an engineer as well. While I don't support reader1 in most of his comments. I do however take offense to the statement that all users of mac are stupid. Let us talk reasonably, shall we?
1. Have you ever written a shell script? Do you understand what this line does "find . -name '*.xhtml' | xargs egrep '\bfindByName\b'?
2. How do you read a pdf file in windows? Do you have to install Acrobat Reader? In os x you don't. It is built into the OS. You can see the contents of a pdf document without even opening the file.
3. Have you ever tried all the functionality of the macbook trackpad?
4. Or for that matter have you ever really tried to use an apple computer? I have used a pc for the most of my career, and I still use it where I *have* to.
5. Do you know that proportionally more engineers at google use mac than a pc?


RE: lolJobs
By Etern205 on 2/20/10, Rating: 0
RE: lolJobs
By themaster08 on 2/21/2010 1:59:14 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Or for that matter have you ever really tried to use an apple computer?

I think most of us here have tried OSX. I can see the appeal, it's simplicity and aesthetically pleasing UI would be a benefit to those who are computer illiterate.

However, I find it somewhat condescending. It feels like I'm using a VTech product rather than a real computer. Everytime I use it, I just wish I was using Windows instead.

Everytime I go back to using Windows it just feels like a breath of fresh air.

quote:
Do you know that proportionally more engineers at google use mac than a pc?

What's your point?


RE: lolJobs
By truss64130 on 2/22/2010 11:58:30 AM , Rating: 2
sure, you can use preview to see a PDF, but a lot of functionality is missing. Try filling out a PDF form and e-mailing it back. you can't unless you use acrobat reader.


RE: lolJobs
By jbizzler on 2/21/2010 2:43:08 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Jobs is not the tool, he is the master manipulator. It's his worshipers that are tools, and they make up the majority of Apple customers.

I wouldn't go as far as assuming they're the majority, but they very well might be. They are certainly the loudest. I agree; it is a problem that people "worship" companies instead of judging them based on merit.

He's an impressive businessman but far from worth worshiping.

All computer platforms have their pros and cons and it's up to the customer to weigh them and decide what's right for them. Worship gets in the way of that.

Not supporting Flash could easily be a pro or a con depending on how much you know or care.


RE: lolJobs
By koenshaku on 2/19/2010 11:32:43 AM , Rating: 2
All I have is the phone, it has revolutionized smart phones in the U.S as far as they go. Now there is plenty of competition I'll move over as soon as the apps become more 3rd party, because the windows mobile 7 does look good actually.


RE: lolJobs
By zmatt on 2/19/2010 11:57:37 AM , Rating: 1
Why do people keep saying that? The iPhone didn't do anything that couldn't be done before. The only difference was Apple made it and the masses of Zombies went screaming for it. HTC had touch screen phones of similar caliber before the iPhone was released. And even then, the iPhone lacks a great deal of functionality that we take for granted on just about every other modern phone.

If anything the iFail has ruined touch screens for me, as its screen is insensitive and imprecise, at least for my fingers, and its interface frequently locks up and freezes while running apps or on You Tube. That is unacceptable. If you are going to give support for this, then you had better make sure the cpu is fast enough and there is ample ram. I have things to do and I can't wait for my phone to catch up, while it thinks about it.

Funny, that is the same problem I have had with most Apple products.


RE: lolJobs
By MrBlastman on 2/19/2010 12:16:09 PM , Rating: 5
quote:
and its interface frequently locks up and freezes while running apps or on You Tube.


An i-Fan:

"Apple products never crash, never lock up, never catch viruses and never freeze, unlike Windows."

Yeah, right. My wife's Macbook is a royal PITA to use and I loathe every minute of it. I sigh with relief every time I get to put it down and go back to my Windows PC.

Jobs is just using Flash crashing as an excuse, as the article alludes to, to cordon off his devices to only be able to download applications exclusively through the Apple store. To not support Flash (despite its potential security concerns) is to cut off a huge chunk of the internet and your freedom. At least on our macbook I was able to hack in pseudo-flash support but on these other portable devices, what a joke.

I will not buy any more Apple products because Jobs is simply an imbecile who, if allowed to, wants to turn the world upside down into his own monopoly of drones that do his bidding (well, perhaps not do his bidding but moreso send their money to him).

What a joke.


RE: lolJobs
By Flunk on 2/19/2010 12:29:45 PM , Rating: 5
You can upgrade your wife's computer to Windows 7 and be clear of all that hassle fairly easily.


RE: lolJobs
By themaster08 on 2/19/2010 4:43:54 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Jobs is just using Flash crashing as an excuse, as the article alludes to, to cordon off his devices to only be able to download applications exclusively through the Apple store.

In other words, Jobs is using his power he has with Apple to stifle Adobe. Admittedly they're intentionally trying to drive Flash out of business entirely.

Isn't this illegal? Adobe should file a lawsuit.

Apple are nothing but a vile, anti-competitve, communist company that want the world to live by their rules, and will go to any lengths to keep it that way.

I will never buy an Apple product and line the pockets of such horrid people.


RE: lolJobs
By highlandsun on 2/19/2010 4:54:12 PM , Rating: 5
Dunno if Apple is being evil, but Adobe / Flash certainly are. And the Flash code *is* slow / buggy and insecure, that's a well documented fact. Look at how many security vulnerabilities keep getting reported against Adobe's code. Look at how much CPU Flash eats when it runs on any given machine.

I don't buy Apple products, because I think they're overpriced. But I also avoid Adobe stuff, simply because it all sucks. I'd be perfectly happy to see Apple succeed here and kill off Flash forever.


RE: lolJobs
By themaster08 on 2/19/2010 5:09:46 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
Adobe / Flash certainly are. And the Flash code *is* slow / buggy and insecure, that's a well documented fact.

That's besides the point. No matter how crappy their product is, stifling competition is downright anti-competitive.

Where do we go for multimedia content if Apple succeed? It's just more of an excuse for people to buy into the App store. You're encouraging closed platform computing.

As crappy as Flash is, it represents an open standard, which Apple is trying to drive out for it's own benefit. We, the consumer, will be the ones left in the dust.


RE: lolJobs
By Pirks on 2/19/10, Rating: -1
RE: lolJobs
By themaster08 on 2/19/2010 5:38:46 PM , Rating: 2
Soory but that is a poor example.

OpenGL still exists. If Apple get their way, Flash won't.


RE: lolJobs
By Pirks on 2/19/10, Rating: -1
RE: lolJobs
By themaster08 on 2/20/2010 5:17:56 AM , Rating: 2
Great way to misinterpret what I'm saying.

Apple want Flash to disappear entirely. If Apple succeed, Flash will no longer be developed by Adobe and flash-based applications will cease to exist. Have fun using flash then.

Fanatical BS is Steve Jobs arrogantly thinking that he got people to ditch floppy disks and CD's.


RE: lolJobs
By Pirks on 2/21/2010 8:13:46 AM , Rating: 1
BS since Jobs wants Flash outta his machines, he doesn't give a damn about it on PCs.


RE: lolJobs
By twjr on 2/19/2010 4:56:59 PM , Rating: 3
They are hardly communist. In fact they are one of the most capitalist companies around. What other company would dare charge a significant premium just to have a logo? They might be somewhat autocratic but they are in no way communist.


RE: lolJobs
By themaster08 on 2/19/10, Rating: 0
RE: lolJobs
By foolsgambit11 on 2/20/2010 6:25:00 PM , Rating: 3
Communist isn't the right word. Just because so many governments calling themselves communist (a description of their economic system) have been fascist (a description of their governmental system) doesn't mean they can be used interchangeably. In regards to Apple, fascist is the word you want.


RE: lolJobs
By themaster08 on 2/21/2010 2:28:52 AM , Rating: 2
You're right, however their business shares many characteristics of a communist government.

Firstly, their "elite leader" being the Steve Jobs. The dictator to whom Apple fans bend over for.

In regards to their consumers, everyone would be equal on the grounds of them using the exact same products as eachother. Working class all the way up to upper class. The whole point of a communist government.

Apple wants complete control of it's products. Hardware and software. Just as a communist government wants absolute control.

Control of what is and what isn't allowed in their App store. Similar to that of government controlled labour.

A heavy price premium set for their products. Similar to heavy income tax.

Closed platform. Similar to property confiscation.


RE: lolJobs
By Gio6518 on 2/22/2010 2:13:15 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Jobs is just using Flash crashing as an excuse


i dont believe so

what i dont understand is my PC runs flash great.......

and macs are all PC parts with MAC OS...........

so essentially he's admitting that the MAC OS is poorly written, and cant handle a simple program like flash


RE: lolJobs
By Akrovah on 2/22/2010 2:51:03 PM , Rating: 2
Well to be fair that could simply be poor coding of the Mac verion on Adobe's part, rahter than something inherant to the OS.


RE: lolJobs
By invidious on 2/19/10, Rating: 0
RE: lolJobs
By HotFoot on 2/19/2010 12:52:03 PM , Rating: 5
Honestly, I think with the iPhone Apple made a great product for the masses. I think, though, that the average poster here at DT isn't one of the masses. They're usually more advanced/informed users who don't like artificial restrictions.


RE: lolJobs
By Targon on 2/19/2010 12:59:18 PM , Rating: 1
As a PHONE, the iPhone isn't all that good. Take away all those apps, and you have an INFERIOR phone with a touch screen.

On the flip side, you have dozens of other devices with touch screens that beat the iPhone in many areas. The big thing is that Apple really is very good at marketing a product, but on the pure hardware standpoint, Apple isn't great at this point, except the quality of displays on the high end iMacs.


RE: lolJobs
By peterstorm on 2/19/10, Rating: 0
RE: lolJobs
By MadMan007 on 2/19/2010 5:47:32 PM , Rating: 5
The only 'app' that's really needed is a web browser with full web capabilities.


RE: lolJobs
By lecanard on 2/19/10, Rating: -1
RE: lolJobs
By rmlarsen on 2/19/10, Rating: -1
RE: lolJobs
By Tony Swash on 2/19/10, Rating: -1
RE: lolJobs
By walk2k on 2/19/2010 12:56:05 PM , Rating: 3
5% marketshare is "hugely successful" wow the RDF really works.


RE: lolJobs
By sapiens74 on 2/19/2010 1:06:44 PM , Rating: 2
GM has marketshare.....


RE: lolJobs
By Pirks on 2/19/10, Rating: -1
RE: lolJobs
By retrospooty on 2/19/2010 1:18:33 PM , Rating: 3
LOL... You are too much. Anything and everything to paint Apple in a good light.

You dont want to talk about thier 5% marketshare so you play up the fact that thier revenue is great, which is certainly true, they sell thier products at a high price and make money at that.

But lets not ignore the fact that MS is the richest company in the history of the world... If Apple had to support 10's of thousands of differnt pieces hardware from 1000's of different vendors all while supporting the 1/2 of the market that is business/enterprise software and networking they would fall on thier smug face.


RE: lolJobs
By Pirks on 2/19/10, Rating: -1
RE: lolJobs
By retrospooty on 2/19/2010 1:30:19 PM , Rating: 3
LOL you are like Jobs perfect little reality distortion field signal booster.

Tell me, which is it - Do you really believe the crap you spout? Or are you pushing a specific agenda?


RE: lolJobs
By Pirks on 2/19/10, Rating: -1
RE: lolJobs
By retrospooty on 2/19/2010 2:58:29 PM , Rating: 4
Out of arguments? No, you wore me out the other day... I am just done with it for now. The fact that you even think that Apple is in the same ball park as MS in terms of revenue shows that your either insane or blind. Its not even close, not by a long shot. Apple isnt even in the top 10, or 20 much less anywhere close to MS in terms of money earned.

One cannot "argue" with you because you ignore anything negative about Apple and exaggerate anything negative about MS. At the same time you ignore anything positive about MS and exaggerate anything positive about Apple.

Based on that fact, either you are an extremely ignorant fanboy, or you are pushing some agenda trying to paint Apple in a positive lght for some unknown reason that I cannot understand. - either way your a waste.


RE: lolJobs
By Pirks on 2/19/10, Rating: -1
RE: lolJobs
By retrospooty on 2/19/2010 3:18:17 PM , Rating: 2
Yes, I am scared. You nailed it. LOL too funny.

Still not getting it. Why is it so important to you to defend Apple att all costs and ignore anythng negative they do, like Jobs is your little brother? What is in it for you? they are a very profitable company and have some good products no doubt, but what is your angle?


RE: lolJobs
By hyvonen on 2/19/10, Rating: -1
RE: lolJobs
By retrospooty on 2/19/2010 4:32:16 PM , Rating: 2
Oy, another one of you nutjobs that cant comprehend simple english when its about Apple you get all defensive.

I admit I am bashing Pirks because he is a well known resident nutjob here at AT/DT LOL... But where did I bash Apple? I even said "they are a very profitable company and have some good products" - the iphone was a tremendous home run... it made the whole smartphone world up their game. the ipod as well. It was so well received most newcomers assume that Apple invented the MP3 player. I dont personally care for the MAc platform. I used OS10.5 for a month and I was not at all impressed, but I do see why other people like it.


RE: lolJobs
By Pirks on 2/19/10, Rating: -1
RE: lolJobs
By retrospooty on 2/19/2010 4:36:38 PM , Rating: 2
"I might as well try to keep some healthy balance here"

Sorry to spoil your mental picnic, but what you do here is NOT provide a healthy balance... I repeat, you ignore anything negative about Apple and exaggerate anything negative about MS. At the same time you ignore anything positive about MS and exaggerate anything positive about Apple.

How is that healthy for you, me or anyone else reading it, whether they are well versed in tech news or not?


RE: lolJobs
By Pirks on 2/19/10, Rating: -1
RE: lolJobs
By retrospooty on 2/19/2010 6:38:49 PM , Rating: 5
You can do it, its a free internet. Its not any better when they do it. So because some people are idiots, you feel you should be one too. I get it now. Thanks for at least clarifying.


RE: lolJobs
By inighthawki on 2/19/2010 8:16:01 PM , Rating: 1
pff, PCs all-godly perfectness and awesomeness can not even begin to be matched by Apple's all around failure in every respect, duh...


RE: lolJobs
By TSS on 2/20/2010 5:54:38 AM , Rating: 2
By beeing not interesting yourself? I haven't seen a single non -1 post from you.

Here's one for the both of you:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhWtJ2OwZ4A


RE: lolJobs
By Oregonian2 on 2/19/2010 1:57:40 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
don't pretend being an idiot, it's OEM's who support all this hardware zoo by writing things called DRIVERS and you know it :P


Yeah right. A Windows PC crashes and people say "boy that stupid OEM, what a pile of crappy drivers they wrote". Not in a million years -- Microsoft gets the verbal axe.


RE: lolJobs
By Pirks on 2/19/10, Rating: -1
RE: lolJobs
By retrospooty on 2/19/2010 3:28:22 PM , Rating: 2
" OEM's are still supporting the hardware zoo with drivers, that's the main point "

No, it isnt the main point. The main point is that MS supports the OS that supports the drivers. Apple doesnt/cant/wont support an open platform. They release a product and pick ONE lan card, one USB controller, ONE wireless controller, etc etc...

One, vs thousands. See the difference? Windows is an open platform , the Mac is proprietary.


RE: lolJobs
By Pirks on 2/19/10, Rating: -1
RE: lolJobs
By mydogfarted on 2/19/2010 4:16:30 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
the Mac is proprietary.


Really? It uses standard parts that PCs also use. Their OS may be proprietary, but their hardware is far from it. You don't have to run OS X on it, you can run any x86 based OS on it as long as you can get the right drivers. Being that they use parts from Intel, nVidia, ATi, etc, how hard can that be? Heck, they even make it easy for you to install one of those OSes with Boot Camp.

Apple is a hardware vendor that makes an OS for their computers and interface software for their other hardware. MS is a software vendor that makes software to use with other people's hardware. Huge difference.


RE: lolJobs
By Pirks on 2/19/10, Rating: -1
RE: lolJobs
By retrospooty on 2/19/2010 4:43:44 PM , Rating: 3
uhh... yes, I am aware they use the same hardware, I have been on Earth for a while now.

OK, you go to newegg.com or wherever you like to buy stuff and pick a random network card- put it in your MAc and see if it works. Proprietary...


RE: lolJobs
By Pirks on 2/19/10, Rating: -1
RE: lolJobs
By inighthawki on 2/19/2010 8:19:21 PM , Rating: 2
Proprietary means to hold rights to something, I think what you are trying to say is that the OS is a proprietary design, which happens to not be very nicely compatible with things they don't approve.


RE: lolJobs
By Pirks on 2/21/10, Rating: -1
RE: lolJobs
By Alexstarfire on 2/21/2010 2:30:43 PM , Rating: 2
OS not proprietary? Why can't we install it on PCs again? Ohh right, cause Steve Jobs said we couldn't. So much for OSX being open.


RE: lolJobs
By jbizzler on 2/21/2010 3:18:08 PM , Rating: 2
Well, that depends on where you draw the line between OS and included software. To some, Mac OS X isn't an OS at all. It's Darwin with a lot of bundled proprietary software. Darwin is a free software project with code drawn from all over the place, mostly GNU and BSD. But to the end-user, Darwin alone is more like a Linux distribution.

So the core of Mac OS X is free. It's all the user-visible applications that are proprietary.

I don't think disallowing Mac OS X on non-Apple computers is inherently evil. It may force people who like Mac OS X to buy Macs, but it's also good for image control. If Windows malfunctions because of a hardware problem, Microsoft is blamed more often than the hardware manufacturer. Apple doesn't have this problem. AND Apple doesn't have to spend as many resources on customer support.

Every retail copy of Mac OS X is theoretically an upgrade copy since all Macs come with some version of Mac OS. If they released Mac OS X for non-Macs, then it'd have to be more expensive and unsupported. The unsupported part would cause an image problem.


RE: lolJobs
By zsdersw on 2/19/2010 2:13:22 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
besides why should a company support huge market if it can support much smaller market while making kind of same huge amount of money? being focused instead of trying to go everywhere at the same time makes a good business sense now doesn't it?


Actually, both are valid business strategies.


RE: lolJobs
By Pirks on 2/19/10, Rating: -1
RE: lolJobs
By zsdersw on 2/19/2010 2:40:11 PM , Rating: 4
Your blanket assessment of the situation bears no association to reality.


RE: lolJobs
By fr0meta on 2/20/2010 4:57:28 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
let's not ignore the fact that Apple's cash reserve is equal to MS's one


That's to defend them from the waves of lawsuits coming to them in the future for releasing poor quality products.


RE: lolJobs
By Suntan on 2/19/2010 1:59:19 PM , Rating: 4
Why even bother arguing with a guy that admits he is proud that Apple overcharges him for the products he buys?

What usefullness can come from even discussing the subject with a person like this?

-Suntan


RE: lolJobs
By Pirks on 2/19/10, Rating: -1
RE: lolJobs
By hyvonen on 2/19/10, Rating: 0
RE: lolJobs
By Pirks on 2/19/10, Rating: -1
RE: lolJobs
By themaster08 on 2/19/2010 5:14:39 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Not enough exercise for me ya know ;)

Try the local gym instead.


RE: lolJobs
By Pirks on 2/19/10, Rating: -1
RE: lolJobs
By JJ7575 on 2/19/2010 10:19:29 PM , Rating: 1
To be honest im not a fan of either company but you are comparing apples to oranges with revenue.

Apple sells the hardware and software lets no one else manufacture thier own with apples software.

Microsoft is mainly software only.

To honestly compare revenues of them you need to take out microsofts search and xbox revenues.

Then you need to add the harware revenues of all the oem's(dell, hp,lenvo etc..), phone companys, tablet makers, every device that ships with windows on it( subtract the cost the company paid for the windows on the device). then add all those numbers together with the cut out MS number, and you get the revenue of the windows devices.


RE: lolJobs
By Gio6518 on 2/22/2010 2:16:52 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
Afraid to talk about revenue share instead of market share, PC fanatic? ;)


wow are you sure your not reader1 you sound just like him


RE: lolJobs
By mechwarrior1989 on 2/24/2010 2:42:17 AM , Rating: 2
pirks has always been like that. I think I saw pirks commenting before reader1 but I'm not really sure.


RE: lolJobs
By jRaskell on 2/19/2010 1:15:13 PM , Rating: 5
quote:
Apple products are crap

I wouldn't call Apple products crap, but they are substantially overpriced and so utterly locked to Apple that you can barely sneeze without owning the appropriate Apple approved application to allow it. Their unrelenting grip on all their products borders on a form of technological fascism.
quote:
Job's is a fool

Jobs is by no means a fool. It's clear he's actually a very intelligent person. I have no personal involvement with the man to make any claims on his sanity, but the way he runs Apple it is very clear he's far more concerned with maintaining control of everything Apple makes than with what his customer base wants. With Apple, they don't ask the customers what they want, they TELL the customers what they want.
quote:
Apple customers are idiots

To be perfectly honest, I think most people in this world are idiots. Apple is nothing special in that regard.
quote:
I hope Apple can help kill flash.

Ya, because killing off one of the most popular internet media formats in the entire world is far better than pressuring the owner to improve it. From a company point of view, that's absolutely the case. From a customer point of view, I guess if Apple tells you it's in your best interest as well, then it must be. Please. It is NEVER in a customers best interest to eliminate options, only in Apple's.

There is one thing that is so perfectly clear to me regarding Apple that I will state it here as a fact, and not just my opinion. The computing industry today would be far worse off if Apple and Microsoft had flipped positions. There is no doubt in my mind whatsoever that if Apple was the monopolistic computer player today instead of MS, they would be throttling every single hardware manufacturing and software developer by the neck, threatening them to conform to Apple's will or be mercilessly killed (possibly even literally). Their actions would make Microsofts look downright pascifist by comparison.


RE: lolJobs
By Obujuwami on 2/19/2010 1:35:46 PM , Rating: 3
So that 1984 commercial apple did was prophetic....who knew?


RE: lolJobs
By Obujuwami on 2/19/2010 1:36:14 PM , Rating: 2
WAIT, I mean couter-prophetic...sorry


RE: lolJobs
By hyvonen on 2/19/2010 3:34:13 PM , Rating: 1
You know, pretty much everything he said is true. No reason to downgrade the guy.


RE: lolJobs
By Pirks on 2/19/10, Rating: -1
RE: lolJobs
By marvdmartian on 2/19/2010 2:15:13 PM , Rating: 2
The Jobs giveth, and the Jobs taketh away; He telleth you what you need, and ignoreth what you want. Do not question the wisdom that is Jobs, for his is infinite and absolute!

....at least, if you're a fanboy tool.


RE: lolJobs
By rudy on 2/20/2010 1:19:00 AM , Rating: 2
Yes they do buy it, the apple people absolutely do.


RE: lolJobs
By masamasa on 2/22/2010 8:07:16 PM , Rating: 2
by gibb3h on February 19, 2010 at 11:19 AM

why does anyone buy crap from this tool?

----------------

That cracked me up. I totally agree.


RE: lolJobs
By popopo on 2/23/2010 9:54:30 AM , Rating: 2
Thanksgiving gifts... and Christmas gifts..

http://goph3r.com/su


Flash sucks.
By mxnerd on 2/19/2010 11:35:33 AM , Rating: 3
I don't buy Apple products, so I don't care whether Flash is ported to iPad/iPod/iPhone.

However, the fact is, Flash is buggy and does eats tons of CPU.

Every time I go to a Flash based website, Firefox/IE/Chrome can easily use more than 50% of CPU resources.

It's really that Adobe never fix Flash problems.




RE: Flash sucks.
By stmok on 2/19/2010 11:54:34 AM , Rating: 3
Its also seriously insecure; regardless of platform or OS.

Talk to the guy who analyzed it in order to create the open source implementation called Gnash , and he'll tell you what a joke Flash really is.

When you talk to Adobe Flash developers (Linux version at least) to try to get them to improve the situation; all you will get is excuses why Flash is such a CPU hog.

The world is better off when Flash dies.

For now, we tolerate this nonsense. (eg: Firefox with NoScript extension.)


RE: Flash sucks.
By xxsk8er101xx on 2/20/2010 12:38:28 PM , Rating: 2
maybe this will change your mind about flash.

http://www.nvidia.com/object/io_1243934217700.html

Adobe and NVIDIA Announce GPU Acceleration for Flash Player.

This would offload flash from the cpu to your graphics card.

http://www.filehippo.com/download_flashplayer_ie/6...

it's currently in beta 2


RE: Flash sucks.
By Booty on 2/19/2010 12:13:33 PM , Rating: 3
Agreed. I'm pretty anti-Apple, but in this case I actually support their stance. If this somehow leads to either a new standard or improvements in Flash, then I'll be happy to give Jobs credit.

That said, as others have pointed out, claiming responsibility for making some of these other technologies obsolete? Please. Generally speaking, Apple has been a much greater roadblock to standardization than an aid to it.


RE: Flash sucks.
By MonkeyPaw on 2/19/2010 2:14:55 PM , Rating: 2
Yeah, that's the thing, flash isn't always bad. Places like YouTube use it well, but ads are a whole nother story. With a good adblock program, flash is not that intrusive. Heck, there has to be a reason that flash blocking is an option. It just might be because people find it to be a pain and would like better control over its use.

Honestly, on an itouch or iPhone, flash isn't that necessary, especially since the devices have some pretty small screens, and flash applets has been known to consume vast portions of browsers. It's not so much that flas itself sucks, it's that too many web designers don't use it right or use it too much.


RE: Flash sucks.
By rs1 on 2/19/2010 12:51:46 PM , Rating: 4
Flash has issues, but that's kind of besides the point in this case, where Jobs is claiming that "Flash crashes Macs". If that is truly the case, then it's not Flash's fault that the macs are crashing. Mac OS is derived from a Linux/UNIX variant, and Adobe has a Linux/UNIX Flash Player out that does not crash the system. Granted, it has all the standard Flash Player issues, but total system crash is not one of them. So if Adobe's existing Flash Player is causing Macs to crash, then the problem is somewhere in the Mac OS code. They changed something that causes the OS to crash when used with Flash Player. That's not Adobe's fault, it's Apple's.

The fact that Flash Player sucks does not mean that Mac OS doesn't suck at least equally much for not even being able to run it stably. Any good OS should be able to run bad programs without crashing. Whether or not you'd actually *want* to run the program in question is besides the point.


RE: Flash sucks.
By walk2k on 2/19/2010 1:05:35 PM , Rating: 2
Flash doesn't crash my PC, maybe it's the Mac that just sucks?

Flash works great even on my old 7-year old P4 systems, no problems at all.

The only place Flash is a "little bit slow" is on my PS3...

LOL sad, $3000 Mac beat by a $300 game console.


RE: Flash sucks.
By lightfoot on 2/19/2010 4:01:55 PM , Rating: 2
The thing that bugs me the most is that Apple has come out and targeted a single application from a single company and said "You're not allowed."

It doesn't matter if Apple has deemed the software to be complete crap or not. If I want to run it on MY computer, I should be able to do so. No matter how crappy a piece of software is, it should NEVER crash the OS (hardware drivers being a major exception of course.)

And lastly - I'm a PC and I reboot my computer four times per year.


RE: Flash sucks.
By Reclaimer77 on 2/19/2010 3:02:49 PM , Rating: 1
If you don't know what you are talking about, don't speak.

Flash uses "tons" of CPU because it doesn't use the video card to process video. It's all done on the CPU, even HD flash video. You think it's just magically going to not use CPU or something ??

They are soon going to release a completely new Flash that uses the video card for decoding and will no longer load the CPU. So I think your claim of saying they "never" work on Flash is unfounded as well.


RE: Flash sucks.
By mxnerd on 2/19/2010 8:43:31 PM , Rating: 1
Of course I know Flash uses CPU, not video card.

I do LAN, servers, desktops & some programming and have over 20+ years experience on PCs.

Adobe not only have Flash plug-in problems, it also has Acrobat plug-in problems that will hang your browsers. Don't believe me? Just Google.

I guess you are the one don't know what you are talking about.


RE: Flash sucks.
By Reclaimer77 on 2/19/10, Rating: 0
RE: Flash sucks.
By inighthawki on 2/19/2010 11:13:29 PM , Rating: 2
You make it sound as if the amount of cpu that flash uses is normal, though. As it currently stands, flash/actionscript is INCREDIBLY buggy and slow, not to mention has tons of memory leaks. Adobe is fairly well known for building fairly slow applications with issues...


RE: Flash sucks.
By Reclaimer77 on 2/20/2010 8:17:35 AM , Rating: 1
It is "normal". In the context that when Flash was first developed nobody, and I mean NOBODY, could predict that we would be streaming 1080p quality videos over a broadband connection just a few years later.

Now a legitimate beef would be to say why has it taken this long to start working on the new GPU bound flash. But to simply say Flash is a poor product because of high CPU usage, well, that's ignorant.


RE: Flash sucks.
By inighthawki on 2/20/2010 12:10:47 PM , Rating: 2
You clearly don't have much experience with flash. I have only been using flash/actionscript for a few months now and it is completely apparent how poorly optimized it is. Of course it is going to have high demands when playing 1080p video, I'm not talking about that though. Just average flash games and smaller things take up ridiculous amounts of cpu and memory. There are many vulnerabilities and sections that are poorly optimized in actionscript. A nice clear example of how incredibly efficient their code is is the hitTestObject function in a simple displayobject. You would think something as easy as checking some axis aligned bounding boxes in 2D would be easy, but according to flash it takes a lot of cpu... I have seen software renderers for games that are far more powerful than anything in flash, so lets not try to defend it saying that it's some special piece of work. The fact is that flash was adopted because a lot of people found it convenient, and began using it, not because it's good.


RE: Flash sucks.
By Reclaimer77 on 2/20/2010 1:36:44 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
You clearly don't have much experience with flash.


Right I only watch HD Youtubes and Hulu's EVERY DAY and play Flash games on Facebook and other sites. Please tell me how much experience I need ?


RE: Flash sucks.
By inighthawki on 2/20/2010 1:57:18 PM , Rating: 2
Perhaps some development experience? Watching youtube and playing small flash games on various websites hardly constitutes experience with flash.


RE: Flash sucks.
By Reclaimer77 on 2/20/2010 4:53:29 PM , Rating: 1
No. I know how anal you programmers are. What you are doing is projecting some little pet peeve onto the world. I know I know, if only everyone saw things your way, zero's and one's would live in perfect harmony. We get it.

This argument has never been about coding Flash. It's always been about the end user experience. Your "development" experience means nothing here.


RE: Flash sucks.
By inighthawki on 2/20/2010 5:10:02 PM , Rating: 3
I'm not talking about the experience of development, I'm talking about understanding flash at a lower level. Looking pretty and doing what the end user wants really means almost nothing when the end result is a completely unoptimized solution which uses twice as many clock cycles as it needs. If it's beta software or still in development, that's completely acceptable, but flash has been around for a LONG time now, with complaints similar to mine all around, and yet nothing has been done really until recently to solve this problem, and even now now it's simply being offloaded to the gpu instead. Don't get me wrong, i welcome the gpu-based flash, but it's more of a bandaid than fixing the real problem.


RE: Flash sucks.
By mxnerd on 2/20/2010 5:28:50 PM , Rating: 2
Nowadays gamers think they know everything.

All they do is playing games.


RE: Flash sucks.
By mxnerd on 2/20/2010 12:59:22 AM , Rating: 2
Yeah.

Since you are an end user, you don't experience much trouble with different kinds of configurations with all sorts of machines.

And I handle them days in and days out. I know what program works and what doesn't.

Your machine does not have problem with Flash does not mean other people's machines don't have problems. If there are no problems, why would a lot of people make a fuss about it?

When a flawed product gets deployed in a large scale, any small defect becomes a big deal.


RE: Flash sucks.
By Reclaimer77 on 2/20/2010 8:21:53 AM , Rating: 2
You know what, let's cut the crap and talk turkey.

Flash is enjoyed by billions of people on a daily basis around the world.

If it was such a poor product, YouTube and Hulu and similar sites would NEVER has seen the market saturation that they do.

Is it perfect ? No. Hell show me one piece of software that is.

quote:
And I handle them days in and days out. I know what program works and what doesn't.


And Flash doesn't "work" ?


RE: Flash sucks.
By mxnerd on 2/20/2010 12:35:19 PM , Rating: 2
Whatever.

You should read what inighthawki says. Flash not only sucks with video, it sucks even with a small animated ads on a web page. It just takes enormous & ridiculous amount of CPU, even if user has a fast processor.

I'll end here.


RE: Flash sucks.
By xxsk8er101xx on 2/20/2010 12:51:18 PM , Rating: 2
the reason why flash "sucks" is because it's a graphic intensive application. Imagine playing your game without a GPU. You're game would run slow right? I mean most games today require a decent video card. Why? Those games require graphic acceleration which offloads it from the CPU to the GPU which is significantly faster than any CPU when handling graphics.

Adobe is at fault for not doing this sooner but it's on the way now. It's in beta 2 right now.

Adobe and NVIDIA Announce GPU Acceleration for Flash Player
http://www.nvidia.com/object/io_1243934217700.html

http://www.filehippo.com/download_flashplayer_ie/6...


RE: Flash sucks.
By Reclaimer77 on 2/20/2010 1:10:54 PM , Rating: 2
Sometimes I wonder how ancient these ppl's computers are who whine about flash. Yes it's CPU intensive, but good lord, it doesn't drag your entire system down. I have an old Core2 and I can still watch flash while playing WoW on my other monitor and have several other programs open at the same time.


RE: Flash sucks.
By jmurbank on 2/22/2010 3:22:54 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Sometimes I wonder how ancient these ppl's computers are who whine about flash. Yes it's CPU intensive, but good lord, it doesn't drag your entire system down. I have an old Core2 and I can still watch flash while playing WoW on my other monitor and have several other programs open at the same time.

You are using Windows which Adobe supports better than another operating system. Adobe Flash runs completely different on a MAC and Linux. If you use either MAC or Linux for a long period of time, Flash will be very, very sluggish. Also using Flash in these operating systems will eventually crash the web browser. I use Linux on a daily basis and Flash makes it crawl even though I have a Core 2 setup too. In any of my Linux setups, I include Flashblock to minimize or control the use of Flash on sites. One problem, my computer can not handle Flash and do something else like games because hulu for example take up about 100% for both processors and this is not hulu's fault. Sites do not need to use Flash because it is not required although graphic designers see using Flash as an easier way than DHTML, XML, and other forms of methods of script web language.


RE: Flash sucks.
By Pirks on 2/21/10, Rating: -1
RE: Flash sucks.
By themaster08 on 2/22/2010 4:58:21 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
You PC fanatics suddenly forget about that "every polished product may have some manufacturing defects early on" thing of reason when you see an Apple logo :))

It's always a big deal when that company self-proclaim superiority, whilst at the same time mocking it's competition.

When something goes wrong with an Apple product, their abnormally sized heads are brought back down to earth, where they deserve every ounce of criticism they receive.


Turning point in Apple history
By Dorkyman on 2/19/2010 11:56:06 AM , Rating: 2
It could be that the disastrous iPad introduction and Jobs rants about Flash could represent the point where Apple's fortunes suddenly turn sour. Up until now, Steve has been golden. Now it appears he is just as human as everyone else.

I would NOT want to be holding a lot of Apple stock right now.




RE: Turning point in Apple history
By sapiens74 on 2/19/10, Rating: -1
RE: Turning point in Apple history
By aharris on 2/19/2010 12:12:20 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
When the Ipad sells like hotcakes


We own two iPods, an iPhone, a MacBook Pro, a PowerBook, a custom-built Win7 PC Desktop, and a Win7 PC Laptop.

That said, quit being such a fanboi; this iteration of the iPad is seriously lacking in quite a few ways, and this claim of yours won't come to fruition until at least the second generation iPad comes out (if it even does).


RE: Turning point in Apple history
By Pirks on 2/19/10, Rating: -1
RE: Turning point in Apple history
By zsdersw on 2/19/2010 1:21:04 PM , Rating: 4
quote:
Just like the first iPhone did :P


.. and every other one after that.


RE: Turning point in Apple history
By Pirks on 2/19/10, Rating: -1
RE: Turning point in Apple history
By zsdersw on 2/19/2010 2:09:09 PM , Rating: 5
.. because the people who buy them are both idiots and sheep.


RE: Turning point in Apple history
By jbizzler on 2/21/2010 3:05:01 PM , Rating: 2
Lots of Apple customers are sheep-like, but not all of them. Apple products, like all products, have their pros and cons. The pros and cons weigh differently for everyone, and buying a product from Apple can be an intelligent decision if it suits your particular needs.

It's when a customer stops weighing the pros and cons and makes a buying decision based on feeling and worship that he becomes a sheep.

Unless it's a Bible or something; then it's okay to buy something based on worship =)


RE: Turning point in Apple history
By zsdersw on 2/19/2010 2:30:39 PM , Rating: 2
What's good isn't always popular; what's popular isn't always good.


RE: Turning point in Apple history
By Pirks on 2/19/10, Rating: -1
RE: Turning point in Apple history
By zsdersw on 2/19/2010 3:19:24 PM , Rating: 2
.. and the iPhone.


Lets be honest
By alanore on 2/19/2010 11:53:51 AM , Rating: 5
The only reason flash isn't on the ipad iphones is because it would allow apps on the devices that bypass the app store, and apples pockets.

If flash was really the devil then why is it on their computers?

Granted HTML5 will replace flash for video, that one is a given but HTML5 is not going to replace it for everything.




RE: Lets be honest
By walk2k on 2/19/2010 12:58:10 PM , Rating: 2
If HTML5 threatens the store they will block that too.


RE: Lets be honest
By rs1 on 2/19/2010 2:33:06 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
Granted HTML5 will replace flash for video, that one is a given but HTML5 is not going to replace it for everything.


Thank you. I wish more tech pundits would start getting that point. HTML5 adds solid support for streaming media content, and is a valid competitor to Flash in that regard. However, streaming media is not the only thing that Flash is used for, it's also used for games, apps, "rich" website UI's, and so on. And for many of those use-cases, HTML5 doesn't do enough/anything to really allow it to compete with Flash.

As such, HTML5 is never going to completely replace Flash. It may reduce Flash's market share by pushing it out of the streaming multimedia segment, but it's extremely unlikely that it will compete with it anywhere else. Flash may not always be as ubiquitous as it currently is, but it's going to maintain some kind of niche at least through the lifetime of HTML5.


RE: Lets be honest
By The0ne on 2/19/2010 4:42:11 PM , Rating: 2
Omicronx has repeated it over and over but people just don't either read or listen. They still think and pray that HTML5 is going to completely replace flash, and it's not. Period.


RE: Lets be honest
By highlandsun on 2/19/2010 5:02:39 PM , Rating: 1
HTML5 doesn't have to replace everything else, because all of that is already supported by Javascript. People who think writing web UIs in Flash is a good idea are morons.

The fact is, today javascript and Actionscript are basically the same thing, the main difference is that Actionscript comes buried inside a proprietary container and requires its own VM separate from the script engine that's already built in to most modern web browsers. So tell me why being forced to run a second bloated piece of crap VM inside your browser is a good idea?

And for the iphone/ipad users who care about Flash video access - RTMPdump will get those videos for you too and it's completely free under GPLv2. All you need is a jailbroken device, or for some other enterprising software developer to wrap this up in a shiny iPhone UI and that problem is solved. Then there's zero reason to bring the monstrosity of Flash over to the platform.


RE: Lets be honest
By Penti on 2/22/2010 4:42:02 AM , Rating: 2
There's no embedded or mobile device who has Flash 10.1 yet. So it's a total impossibility for Apple to ship something which doesn't even exist for any other platform.


I always found this interesting
By rudy on 2/19/2010 11:38:23 AM , Rating: 5
Do not bite the hand that feeds you? I always felt that if it were not for adobe apple would have filed for bankruptcy a long time ago. And I certainly understand their standing now because they want to force apps out of the compatible market and into their incompatible app store. But if I was adobe right now I might start to ignore bugs showing up in photoshop CSX and basically turn all my coding power to windows applications.




RE: I always found this interesting
By Boze on 2/19/2010 1:39:00 PM , Rating: 4
You beat me to it Rudy.

In response to this comment by Jobs, I'd love to see Adobe release a statement that starting with versions CS5, all Adobe products will be Windows and Linux only. Wonder how fast Jobs would shut that yapper when he realizes universities and art schools won't be buying any more of his hardware.

Even better, I wonder how fast he'll shut that yapper when those deluded students realize Windows 7 is far better OS than Snow Leopard. Wouldn't be able to hook 'em while they're young Steve-o...


By themaster08 on 2/20/2010 5:50:06 AM , Rating: 2
Couldn't agree more.

Sometimes I think that Jobs has become trapped in his own reality distortion field. Does he realise that a healthy percentile buy Macs solely for Adobe's software?

Like you, I would love to see Adobe have the balls to cut support for all of their software on Macs, and focus their efforts on the Windows and Linux platforms.

I doubt Adobe's profits would suffer, because everyone that uses Adobe's products exclusively on Macs would just switch over to Windows.

Jobs is cutting off his own nose to spite his face, and the arrogant fool doesn't even realise. It's only a matter of time before he starts to draw major developers away with his arrogance and discouragement.

I, for one, wouldn't like to spend my time and money developing software to line to pockets, and to be made a mockery of by such a vile company.


By zero2dash on 2/22/2010 2:31:39 PM , Rating: 2
+1 for truth; I've posted the same thing before and commented on it again waaaaaaaaaaay down below (after more of the usual fanboy slinging).

All those years Apple had nothing but Adobe, yet I suppose it was Claris Works that kept Apple in business, wasn't it?

I'd love to see Adobe abandon the platform and see where Apple computers go from there. Sure, people will still buy Macs for FCP, but I'd like to think that more people buy Mac h/w for Creative Suite than those who use Premiere/FCP.


Ditching Floppies and CDs
By HotFoot on 2/19/2010 11:28:25 AM , Rating: 5
I had no idea it was Apple that got me to do this. I thought I ditched floppies when USB-flash drives came out. I still haven't ditched CDs for music (maybe I'm the oddball there), but for storage CDs/DVD backup went out the door when external HDDs got really cheap and convenient.




RE: Ditching Floppies and CDs
By MadMan007 on 2/19/2010 11:47:12 AM , Rating: 4
It's amazing that one can say CDs have been 'ditched' with examples like this CD-ripping software and the "Rip, Mix, Burn" campaign which specifically require a physical CD as a prerequisite.


RE: Ditching Floppies and CDs
By ChristopherO on 2/19/2010 2:59:30 PM , Rating: 3
And you're forgetting the "burn" part which sort of requires a second CD.

That Jobs guy is just wild. I mean, he would be highly amusing if his followers didn't scare me. I've been in companies where Mac guys threatened to quit if we didn't get them a Mac. "Sorry, this firm deploys PCs, you knew that taking the job, if we need to find your replacement we can do that."

What moron would stake his employment on a computer platform? It's a freaking tool, basically an expensive swiss army knife, get over it.

Politics and religion are the same way. You hear stupid one-sided arguments from both camps. The fact that some Mac fans think Jobs is God is amusing. Makes me wonder what will happen when they meet the real one. At least I can stand the right-wingers, because eternity seems like a more important thing to argue about than a $2500 piece of plastic. If however the Mormons came to my house, tried to get me to convert, *and* sell me a Mac... That would be just really fricked up. :)


Dear Jason Mick
By ashtonmartin on 2/19/10, Rating: 0
RE: Dear Jason Mick
By gibb3h on 2/19/2010 11:56:30 AM , Rating: 2
Dear Mr. ashtonmartin,
I'm a consumer, and I agree with the journalist.


RE: Dear Jason Mick
By weskurtz0081 on 2/19/2010 12:14:09 PM , Rating: 2
So, "reality distortion field" is childish, but telling someone what they are saying is "spewing" isn't...... Check!


RE: Dear Jason Mick
By HotFoot on 2/19/2010 1:38:15 PM , Rating: 2
Phrases like 'reality distortion field' will remain firmly in-place until people quit 'spewing' misinformation such as Apple having invented mp3 players, smart phones, notebook computers, etc. etc.


RE: Dear Jason Mick
By Asura on 2/19/2010 5:01:03 PM , Rating: 2
I don't see how the article in any way comes off as demeaning to any consumer of Apple products. The quote "reality distortion field" that you're referring to was used in a context to question a statement made by Jobs, not Apple itself, its products or their customers.

Given how absurd his statement was I don't really see how you can even hope to defend it either. If you want to direct any anger or criticize anyone about making fun of Apple I'd rather read through the above posts.

I would however agree with you, and some others, on the part that all/most Apple products aren't pure crap. Along with that the reason for some of their huge popularity isn't unfounded. Nevertheless, like some posters have vigorously pointed out, they're far from perfect.

Though flash might not be perfect and in the long run HTML-5 might be better for streaming. As a consumer I don't really feel like waiting around for that to happen when I want to stream media right now. I'd rather just consider my options before buying an iPad or iPhone.

Like many others I don't either buy that the main reason Apple as a company (or just Jobs?) decided to go with not implementing flash on their device. As is pointed out in the article there is a strong financial drive to avoid integrating flash while Apple.


RE: Dear Jason Mick
By kmmatney on 2/21/2010 12:45:20 AM , Rating: 1
To me, the article sounds more like an editorial, rather than a news snippet. The entire first half of the article sounded like opinion to me. I don't own a mac, bought now want to buy one just to piss all of you iHaters off.

I do love my iPhone (its provided by work so it free!!! Woohoo!). I have to admit I was a bit of an Apple hater until I got the phone. I had a choice of any ATT phone, and after trying them all out, the iPhone was just the easiest one to use. I gacve the other phones a chance - they failed.

I think the bottom line with flash is that most people don't need or want it on the iPhone. I can see it being more useful for the ipad, though, as that will be used more like a standard computer. It might bite them in the ass to not inlcude it on the iPad.


RE: Dear Jason Mick
By kilkennycat on 2/21/2010 5:27:21 PM , Rating: 2
The iPad and iPhone hardware cannot hack the hardware-accelerated version of Flash10.x, so, for example, forget realtime decoding of HDFlash on the current already-antique iPad hardware without frame-drop or other artifacts. The poor old iPhone and iPad are about to be taken behind the wood-shed and beaten by smart-phones, tablets and notebooks based on the nVidia Tegra2 or similar low-power-consumption core hardware dreamed up by ATi. Jobs insistence on the design of the core hardware of the iPhone/iPad being totally in-house will prove to be his undoing. His anti-Flash promulgations are born of the desperation of politically propping-up new products based on obsolete hardware. To add to his discomfort, a bunch of his key hardware designers have recently left the Apple fortress for the liberty of an independent startup.


iPad doesn't need Flash
By Fretboard on 2/19/2010 11:34:15 AM , Rating: 1
It will be interesting to see how much HTML5 can handle what Flash can handle in terms of video.

iPad News and updates:

http://iPadLot.com




RE: iPad doesn't need Flash
By frobizzle on 2/19/2010 11:55:10 AM , Rating: 3
By Thats Mr Gopher to you on 2/19/2010 12:07:12 PM , Rating: 2
RE: iPad doesn't need Flash
By Fretboard on 2/19/2010 1:01:14 PM , Rating: 2
Haha, hilarious.


RE: iPad doesn't need Flash
By nafhan on 2/19/2010 1:29:52 PM , Rating: 2
So... iPad will be good product once HTML5 is ubiquitous? Could be a while. Until then I'll stick with products that can handle streaming video in all it's different incarnations.
HTML5 does a great job at handling video BTW. Do a quick search and you can easily find some demos if you're running a proper browser. It's just not available widely outside of technology demos (with the exception being a limited selection of youtube videos).


uff...
By batman4u on 2/19/2010 11:14:53 AM , Rating: 5
one word... Arrogance

amazed so many times from his stupidity that doesnt get me fired up any more...




RE: uff...
By Reclaimer77 on 2/19/2010 11:15:51 AM , Rating: 4
lol yes because it's a "feature" when we "ditch" industry standards that benefit the end user...


So it must be crAppley products
By XZerg on 2/19/2010 12:43:46 PM , Rating: 2
Apple tries to piss all over M$ and the PC world saying that they are inferior. The funny thing is M$ and the PC world supports about 99% of the software and hardware out there and Apple supports a handful only.




RE: So it must be crAppley products
By harmaton on 2/19/10, Rating: -1
RE: So it must be crAppley products
By XZerg on 2/19/2010 1:07:57 PM , Rating: 2
"We don't know how to build a $500 crappy computer."

Yet here they are creating a "computer" that is so great that it cannot support a software that is so widely used throughout the world.

Yup - crAppley!


RE: So it must be crAppley products
By harmaton on 2/19/10, Rating: -1
RE: So it must be crAppley products
By walk2k on 2/19/2010 4:50:02 PM , Rating: 3
First of all Flash IS a standard. Like it or not, everyone uses it, it's become the standard. It just is.

Secondly Steve-O doesn't want a standard, he wants a standard THAT HE OWNS and HE ALONE CONTROLS.

Wake up, this is all just a coverup for the fact that Apple wants to control every App on the iXYZ and not give away that control to anyone who can write a Flash app (hint: everyone).


RE: So it must be crAppley products
By bodar on 2/19/2010 5:28:49 PM , Rating: 2
Maybe if Apple decided to support Flash on their mobile devices, Adobe would bother to fix the bugs? Flash works just fine on other platforms.


By themaster08 on 2/20/2010 6:00:15 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Actually make people use a standard, which is better in the end.

Flash IS a standard.

There is no real alternative to Flash. Apple want to wipe flash out because it will benefit their App store.

quote:
Flash is not that good btw, and I can't understand why people would say otherwise.

Whilst I agree somewhat, there is nothing else out there that has the multimedia and application capabilities as Flash does.

Using their power to intentionally wipe Flash out entirely is anti-competitive. Create a better alternative and let people decide for themselves. That's how competition works.