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Apple's Technician's Repair guide for applying thermal grease
"So, mark Saturday May 20th on your calendar - it's the day the whining ends!"

As issues continue to be discovered about Apple's MacBook Pros, more and more owners are becoming increasingly upset at Apple's lack of response. Some issues such as heat, are now being found to be caused by a simple lack of assembly care during manufacturing. Owners who have opened up their MacBook Pros have discovered that so much thick thermal grease is applied to the CPU, GPU and northbridge that heat is not effectively removed at all. In fact, after cleaning off the mess, users have reported that their MacBook Pros operate up to 18C cooler.

What upsets users and owners the most however, is Apple's lack of response. The company has in some cases, told customers that their issues are within operating specifications and are "normal." Despite being a laptop, Apple's own usage warnings indicate that placing a MacBook Pro on bare skin could cause burns after extended use.

The MacBook Pro community has now declared that enough is enough. OSx86 Project, a large Mac community, is now organizing a formal protest to Apple. Scheduled for May 20th of 2006, the protest calls for all MacBook Pro owners to call into Apple's support center and report their problems all at the same time. The planned call center flooding is aimed to get Apple to respond to the ongoing issues that are plaguing MacBook Pros. Users are upset that even after so many weeks of manufacturing and problem reporting on its official forums, that the company has yet to fix the issues. The request for protest claims:

This is the best way we can hold Apple accountable. It's our duty to make sure they know we won't tolerate hacks and unsupported fixes to fix an issue that shouldn't be there. This is nothing malicious and we do it with the most admirable of reasons – telling Apple we love their characteristically high quality and won't settle for less. Since we pay for the ability to call technical support when have an issue, we should use it.




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People still buy Macs...
By jskirwin on 5/3/2006 1:25:07 PM , Rating: 5
In spite of the fact that Apple has shown complete lack of interest in their customers?

I've never understood the fanatical zeal of Mac-People, considering all the nasty things that firm has done to them. What, was it the Powerbook 5300 that had the cracked mobo where the power plugged in? Had that go bad on the Wife's machine while abroad, POJ... Then Apple killed the clones in '97-98 - the year I bought my last Mac product. Plus 20+ years of gouging their customers by selling overpriced, underpowered products.

Now people are upset enough to flood their call center over lack of support - like its something new or that Apple is going to change. Why - when Dell is practically giving away laptops (not that Dell is any better service wise, but at least they are much cheaper).




RE: People still buy Macs...
By segagenesis on 5/3/2006 1:39:00 PM , Rating: 2
I dont get this part... they continue buying products from the company that burns them (no pun intended). Maybe a longtime Mac user can tell us otherwise whats the deal here but I dont see why I would even put up with this. This is like those who would complain until they were blue in the face over iPod battery "issues" and yet would continue buying new iPods.

The best way to stick it to a company you dont like is by not buying the damn things they make and also not giving them any undue attention. Flooding thier call center will inconvenience them all for about a few hours. Do they expect that doing this will make Apple pull "free laptop replacement" cupons out of thier butts?


RE: People still buy Macs...
By Shadowself on 5/3/2006 2:45:23 PM , Rating: 2
While the MacBook Pro seems to have a wide array of issues the Apple faithful are not only fanatical about purchasing Apple products. They are fanatical about complaining if their prized possession does not work as they expect.

Apple shipped a product a couple years ago which had less than 0.01% failure rate. The Apple customers thought this was way too high and constituted Apple purposely foisting an intentionally inferior product on them. They pursued a class action suit against Apple because of it.

Another example was the Mac Cube (or whatever it was officially called). The plastic housing had very fine seams where the plastic was molded together. While a very, very few of these systems cracked along those seams, many more users THOUGHT there were cracks and demanded Apple replace them. From the furor created by the Mac fanatics displeasure over this "design flaw" (if a mold seam can be called a design flaw) I would have thought the things were exploding and killing people.

Yet another example is from a friend of mine that runs a gaming website. He recently expanded the site's target audience to include Mac gamers. He said he's gotten many, many more comments from Mac users (by percent of types of users visiting the site) than he ever got from Wintel users -- and the comments have run the full range of possible comments from vicious attacks for his site being mostly Wintel centric to helpful suggestions about how to make the site better (some as picky as pointing out that some graphic was a single pixel out of alignment).

In general Apple products are reasonably high quality, but Apple does have its bad products -- the PowerBook 5300 comes to mind. However, the core Apple customer base (no pun intended) is fanatical in many, many ways... not just in their support of Apple.


RE: People still buy Macs...
By BladeVenom on 5/3/2006 2:53:29 PM , Rating: 2
My favorite is all the Mac fanatics telling me how much better their iBooks are than my Dells, yet they've had two or three logic board failures, and all of my Dell laptops are still working. It's like they all took the blue pill.


RE: People still buy Macs...
By TheBaker on 5/3/2006 4:29:42 PM , Rating: 3
And don't forget that the call centers won't be overstaffed that day. Instead of "flooding the call center" to the point where Apple takes notice, all they're going to do is increase hold times. They're the ones who are going to be inconvenienced, not Apple.


RE: People still buy Macs...
By nwyman on 5/4/2006 8:08:32 AM , Rating: 2
I've had nothing but positive experiences so far with the Dell support (knock on wood).
My only gripe was the time it took to receive my Dimension 9150, but that was due to a shortage of RAM chips or so i'm told.


RE: People still buy Macs...
By stmok on 5/4/2006 9:28:38 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
by jskirwin on May 3, 2006 at 1:25 PM
In spite of the fact that Apple has shown complete lack of interest in their customers?


Because they actually believe in Apple's nonsense.

Last time I checked, (and I doubt it has changed in the last 10yrs), Apple has promoted its products as some "for the superior people".

They play the ego and the "looks" card to get people to throw money to them. You don't want to be an average PC user, you want to be a superior Mac user! (what's the "superior" part? You haven't gained any knowledge on how to secure yourselves if the crapper hits the fan, have you? Do you know how to compile a kernel when you need to? Nope. Do you know how to build you own firewall that rivals in features of expensive solutions? Nope. Do you know how to be self-sufficient in solving your computer related problems? Hardly...You just threw money away! And Apple succeeded in making you feel good about it!)

So Apple can kick them in the nuts, sleep with their spouses in some wild orgy, borrow their car and return it completely trashed, and those fanatics will still kiss Apple's butt on the next version of Mac!


If you really want Apple to take notice, get 1 million Apple users who aren't satisfied to hand write and send letters directly through snail mail to Steve Jobs. Not Apple Support (or whatever they call it), just directly to the CEO.


After sales support isn't the only problem. Their response time to security issues is also lacking. (Take too long!)

For someone who's main selling point is quality and superiority over other products, their "after sales" service is pretty shocking.

That's the thing I like about PCs...Flexibility. Don't like this bit or this bit died? Rip it out and replace it! Don't like pre-built boxes? Build your own! Don't like this operating system? Install this completely different one. Need a file/print/mail/scan server? What about a firewall? Its all there.


RE: People still buy Macs...
By sxr7171 on 5/4/2006 11:27:22 PM , Rating: 2
People who can still return them should. These guys just keep buying that trash because it has an Apple on it.


maxplanar, have you looked at the new inspirons?
By joey2264 on 5/3/2006 5:42:12 PM , Rating: 2
The new inspirons are a league ahead of Apple's designs, in pretty much every way other than weight. Get a clue.




By maxplanar on 5/3/2006 6:17:09 PM , Rating: 2
One of the benefits of Appple moving to Intel is that you can now specify all the same parts and specs and really compare apples to oranges. I went to Dell's site and configured the top-of-the-line Inspiron 9400 to be astoundingly close to the 17" MBP. The configuration offers the same CPU's and same basic Intel motherboard architecture. Fully spec'd out with matching options, and compared to the top-of-the-line MacBook Pro, it lacks the following:-

a built-in video camera
the X1600 GPU
dual link DVI support
optical audio in/out
a six-port 1394a connector
a 1394b connector

It's also:-

60% thicker
11% heavier
10% deeper
Preinstalled with Windows.

It is, however, about $300 cheaper.

Just an FYI.


By maxplanar on 5/3/2006 6:22:30 PM , Rating: 1
Oh, also:

made of plastic.


By wuZheng on 5/3/2006 7:15:07 PM , Rating: 2
Hmmmm, I have no idea what you're point is here...
a built-in video camera
the X1600 GPU
dual link DVI support
optical audio in/out
a six-port 1394a connector
a 1394b connector

You have listed 5 peripherals and one essential component... Okay so you're nagging about the ports, so what? Firewire(IEEE1394) cards cost about 10-20 bucks, so do 30fps 640x480 webcams, also, how many people actually have SPDIF capable speakers and how many of those people with SPDIF speakers actually use it with a notebook? All of the above can be added to a Dell XPS M1710 for about 100-200. However, you claim the MBP's superiority with the X1600 GPU, which is btw factory underclocked to save on power consumption. The Dell XPS notebook has a GeForce 7900GTX Go inside it, its pretty much a nobrainer as to which one is superior.
Let me tell you the starting prices for both machines:
Apple MBP 17" = 3299.00 Canadian Dollars
Dell XPS M1710 = 3349.00 Canadian Dollars

Alright so its about 50 dollars more expensive, but seeing as the GPU totally owns it up, that difference becomes negligible. Your argument for the Mac, if you're talking on a accessory and performance base was long lost to the competing Dell.

HOWEVER, you did bring up a point about the difference in dimensions and mass...

quote:
60% thicker 11% heavier 10% deeper


60% thicker, congratulations you've just repeated the original PowerBook's tagline *claps* its old, we know the Book is thinner.

11% heavier, negligible.

10% deeper, again negligible.

So Apple wins slightly on the dimensions and mass side. Again, so what? The preinstalled platform is incompatible with 90% of the software available on the market today, gl hf with your underperforming, accessory packed, sleekly designed, expensive piece of junk you call a notebook.


By maxplanar on 5/3/2006 7:23:33 PM , Rating: 1
You're missing the single most important item:

quote:
Preinstalled with Windows.


I rest my case. Goodnight all!


By wuZheng on 5/3/2006 8:05:13 PM , Rating: 2
You have also missed an important item on your list:

Preinstalled with Mac OS X (Tiger or otherwise).

And I rest MY case.


By jtesoro on 5/4/2006 9:21:37 AM , Rating: 2
So Apple wins? :)


By Ralph The Magician on 5/3/2006 7:39:48 PM , Rating: 1
Holy crap. I have never , ever seen or heard of a Dell fanboy. You Sir, are a first. Dell's consumer line of products are pure shit.

The Latitude line of notebooks are "decent" and good as a business notebook...so I could understand someone maybe recommending one...but the Inspirons? WTF?


By ksherman on 5/3/2006 10:26:34 PM , Rating: 2
I do agree that it is a bit much for the poster to say

quote:
The new inspirons are a league ahead of Apple's designs, in pretty much every way other than weight. Get a clue.


It is MORE than jus weight. Batter life, size are two HUGE components... true, the 7900GTX owns the X1600.... by a LOT. but the XPS (which I dont think is really considered under the Inspiron line ;-)) ITs batter life stinks especially, not to mention it weighs near 10lbs and is nearly twice as thick... But the XPS is a gaming machine... There is not a single Mac that is designed to be a gaming machine. Macs are really not for games. Its everything else that matters a lot (well, to some people). I my self you LOVE to get a MacBook, but they have many probelems (not going to spend over 2G for something with that many issues... not a very smart purchase) and they ARE super epensive. Maybe the MacBooks (the supposed name for the upcomming iBooks) will be worth it. Who knows, time will tell.

I almost jumped on the Dell deal a few days ago with the Dell E1505 lappy going for approx. $700 (1200 for a well equiped version) but then I remembered the plastic... *shudders* come one, I dont want to spend a crap load of money on something that is just ugly (yes I have seen them in person) and the plastic squaeks too...

All in all, Laptops are great. I prefer the MacBook because of its design and relatively impressive features/hardware (not to mention Apple software)... but it is expensive and WAY WAY too buggy. Most everyone elses leave me wanting more,some little thing is always missing. Laptops are the future of computing, but they still have a ways to go IMO...

Oh, and I do hope that Steve Jorbs fixes the mess that has become the MacBook Pros... IT really is sad that they dont seem to care enough.


By WileCoyote on 5/3/2006 10:38:57 PM , Rating: 2
I completely agree with Ralph The Magician - although even the Latitudes are becoming increasingly unreliable. The Inspirons are a joke. Still, I have to thank Dell for making Inspirons - I make a six figure salary fixing them.


By vortmax on 5/5/2006 10:33:40 AM , Rating: 2
Do you need to hire more people?? I'd love to fix laptop/desktops for a living...a high 5-digit salary is fine for me :)


Audio of whining.
By macademianut on 5/3/2006 1:33:03 PM , Rating: 3
Can someone post an audio clip of the whining sound that the Mac produces? I understand that heat might also be an issue. I am curious to know how loud the sound is. My macbook pro serial number starts with W8612..




RE: Audio of whining.
By ShapeGSX on 5/3/2006 1:39:01 PM , Rating: 5
I heard the whining once. It went, "Waaaaah! It's burning my leg!"

I couldn't get my Zen Micro out fast enough to record the sound, though. Sorry.


RE: Audio of whining.
By macademianut on 5/3/2006 2:55:58 PM , Rating: 2
nice humor.


Try again...
By Trisped on 5/3/2006 4:39:36 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
telling Apple we love their characteristically high quality and won't settle for less.

I don't get it, Apple doesn't have high quality products anymore then anyone else. It is just the fans perception. I feal sorry for these people. It is like you join a religon only to die and find that your whole life you were in the wrong one and now things are over heating.




RE: Try again...
By maxplanar on 5/3/06, Rating: 0
RE: Try again...
By maxplanar on 5/3/2006 5:05:43 PM , Rating: 2
Oh actually, I'm not being fair - Acer and Gateway make really top notch laptops too. They're really beautiful and not bulky at all.

Yeah, Apple really sucks.


RE: Try again...
By mpeny on 5/3/2006 5:27:40 PM , Rating: 2
Your reply is an exellent example of overreacting.

Stockholm Syndrome.


RE: Try again...
By maxplanar on 5/3/2006 5:37:46 PM , Rating: 2
Overreacting?

Really, I have nothing to do today, and I'm just bored and trying to spark a flame war for the fun of it. I could give a crap. I own loads of Windows boxes as well as Macs, just prefer the latter.

Do you want to join in the flames? It'll be fun.


RE: Try again...
By wuZheng on 5/3/2006 6:00:28 PM , Rating: 2
Lets have a flame war then... Apples BAD, and by using the fallacy of deductive logic YOU are bad for liking it. Cmon whats the use of a Mac outside a college graphic design program anyways? Now that they use Intels aren't they just waiting to become Windows boxes??? *flame flame flame* BAD APPLE BAD APPLE BAD.... don't say you didn't ask for that.


OH for heaven's sake be realistic
By maxplanar on 5/3/2006 1:57:15 PM , Rating: 1
The whine (caused, it seems by CPU throttling) is certainly no worse than on the previous AI Powerbook, and is a sound that is no more intrusive than the soft whine from the drive. It's a problem that's been completely overhyped. You can't hear the sound in most environments - in a totally silent room, yes, otherwise no.

As to Airport connection issues, yes, they exist. Currently many users have to manually select the WiFi network when awaking from sleep, which was not neccessary on the previous generation Powerbooks. I have this problem on my MBP. However, anyone who believes this is anything other than a software rev. away from being fixed is a conspiracy theorist - this problem is certain to be rev'd out of existence within the next month or two. And it's not like it's, uh, a major hindrance to my workflow.

Heat? I find my DualCore 2.16GHz MacBook Pro to be no hotter on my lap than my 2003 1.25Ghz G4 Powerbook. They both get hot. Whatever. If it's a problem, it's certainly not a problem specific to this new architecture, and any thin, high performance laptop will suffer from the same problem until power management on laptops is improved. I used a friend's Vaio the other day for a while and it got pretty damn hot on my lap after an hour too. This issue is FUD.

People need to maintain some perspective, really. And this isn't Fanboy talk - take me to the store and point out any brand or model laptop that has absolutely zero issues and I'll show you my giant many-headed Polar Bear.




RE: OH for heaven's sake be realistic
By The Cheeba on 5/4/2006 11:12:43 AM , Rating: 2
"The whine (caused, it seems by Apple users ) is certainly no worse..."

Fixed that typo for you.


By maxplanar on 5/4/2006 11:41:26 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Fixed that typo for you.


Ahhahah. Nice one, I'm glad someone's prepared to have some fun. A good riposte, no doubt.


By Oscarine on 6/29/2006 2:00:22 PM , Rating: 2
Heat certainly isn't specific to macbooks I tend to find them to be reasonably cool. The only laptop I've succesfully used on my lap for long periods of time recently is my Vaio S360... it doesn't even get warm, the Whine of the fan however is sure to make those who think the MBP is loud scream in absolute terror :)


Funny
By Griswold on 5/3/06, Rating: 0
RE: Funny
By notposting on 5/3/2006 2:30:08 PM , Rating: 2
There was no error on the XBOX 360, that piece is supposed to be there--the followup article quickly disappeared.

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=1206


RE: Funny
By MercenaryForHire on 5/3/2006 2:34:36 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
Why oh why does that remind me of the Xbox360 where there was a thin piece of plastic between the GPU and the heatsink - obvious assembly error.

All together now, let's point and laugh at the misinformed no0blet.

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=1206

- M4H


RE: Funny
By Phynaz on 5/3/2006 4:21:31 PM , Rating: 1
Griswold isn't a noob.

He's been an idiot for a very long time.


RE: Funny
By Griswold on 5/3/06, Rating: -1
RE: Funny
By Griswold on 5/3/2006 5:08:54 PM , Rating: 2
Oh I guess I need to spend even more time reasind DT then.
Then again, the MS bashers still came crawling out of their holes, so stick it where the sun dont shine.


Ewww its a Saturday Too...
By rushfan2006 on 5/3/2006 1:52:15 PM , Rating: 2
This is all kinds of stupidity if you ask me. Mac people are cult-like in their dedication, the difference is they are blinded by it and think that's a GOOD THING...but us folks standing on the outside just think its pathetic and sad....all the crap Apple has done over the years and the drones still line up at the altar of Apple.

Not to mention...DUDE the 20th is a Saturday...yeah I'd waste my little free time I get each week on being angry on a tech support call over my computer....some folks need to get a life.





RE: Ewww its a Saturday Too...
By mxzrider2 on 5/4/2006 1:46:36 AM , Rating: 2
exactly thats why i was mac faithfull ( i had pcs too) untill they made spend 1400 on a lcd panel that they broke on a laptop when it was in for hard drive warentee, down with apple man


Uhhh..
By Araemo on 5/3/2006 4:03:07 PM , Rating: 2
"Owners who have opened up their MacBook Pros have discovered that so much thick thermal grease is applied to the CPU, GPU and northbridge that heat is not effectively removed at all."

Uhh, wait a sec.. so the thermal grease is efficiently transfering the heat from the CPU, GPU, and northbridge to the outside of the case. They remove the grease and the outside doesn't get as hot. At least two of the three components mentioned have internal temperature sensors, and the ability to downclock based on heat... Are they sure the system is still running at full speed AND not overheating?




RE: Uhhh..
By TheBaker on 5/3/2006 4:28:00 PM , Rating: 2
The heat is supposed to be transferred to the heatpipes and then blown out of the case by the fans. Everyone expects fan exhaust to be hot. The problem is that the heat is not being drawn away by the heatpipes. The fan exhaust is relatively cool and the heat is building up and transferring to the case instead. Heat is going to be generated any way you slice it. The problem is what is done with that heat once it is generated.


By Master Kenobi (blog) on 5/3/2006 1:38:09 PM , Rating: 2
Agreed. I doubt this will do much, other than give the people working the tech lines those days, a very busy, and most likely very bad day at work.

Think of the call center people... How would you like to get swamped with calls from hundreds of ticked off MAC users? I mean, they are very dedicated to using MAC, and are quite zealous when it comes to them... I couldn't expect them to be any less Zealous when they call in and chew someone over these problems.....

I feel an illness outbreak at the MAC call center coming on......




.
By hans007 on 5/3/2006 3:08:01 PM , Rating: 2
apple has been known over the years to make shoddy hardware, and have relaly bad service, and repair / turnaround times.

but these people just keep coming back. they are like crack addicts. i mean now that they are intel based computers the only real reason to get apple is if you are a microft hater. might as well just run linux.




Hmmmm
By Phynaz on 5/3/2006 4:19:55 PM , Rating: 1
The whining ends....because on Saturday we're going to whine more!




"What would I do? I'd shut it down and give the money back to the shareholders." -- Michael Dell, after being asked what to do with Apple Computer in 1997











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