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Devs urged to use variables for screen size

The rumors of the Apple tablet just won't die. Each time an event is close or someone hints at a new product from Apple, speculation and rumors start anew. An analyst this week released a new research note that claims the Apple table its only months away.

The analyst was Yair Reiner from Oppenheimer. Reiner wrote in a research note that information gleaned for the Apple supple chain indicated that manufacturing partners are ramping up for the Apple tablet. The scuttlebutt is that the tablet could hit in March or April.

Other analysts say that they believe Apple is working on a tablet, but when it will be released is anyone's guess. Steve Jobs is known to be a perfectionist and demanding of his team. Walter Luh from Ansca Mobile said, "Until the project sees the light of day, it's never a foregone conclusion. Steve Jobs demands perfection and if he's not happy with it, it's not going to ship."

Luh goes on to say that with the tablet predicted to be coming that developers need to be looking at writing their apps with an eye towards larger screens. Luh told InformationWeek, "How I expect it to work is that as a developer we'll get the option to either keep our iPhone-sized window or to dynamically scale to take up the extra room. Some apps, such as a news reader or a Web browser, will probably be able to scale easily, while other apps, notably like ours that make very careful artwork and UI decisions based on the exact dimensions of the iPhone screen, cannot simply stretch to fit."

Some app developers believe that the guidance from Apple at the Dev convention to represent screen dimensions as variables rather than specific numbers is an indication of things to come. Apple will want games and other apps to take full advantage of any larger screen device.

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By Motoman on 12/11/2009 6:18:09 PM , Rating: 3
...anyone care to explain why Apple will succeed with a tablet where everyone else has failed?

...maybe they can sell one to every Apple consumer in the world on the back of marketing prowess...but will people actually *use* them?

RE: Hmmm...
By Solandri on 12/11/2009 7:19:23 PM , Rating: 2
I'm not a fan of Apple, but am a fan of their UI. Apple does a pretty good job of making their UI clean and simple, and usable with just a mouse and one button. In Windows, you typically have a lot of two-button and keyboard operations mixed in, which is clumsy on a tablet.

Also, some of the hallmarks of the early Macbooks were thinness, light weight, and a good screen. Apple seems to care more about those things than most PC manufacturers (these features only really started showing up in PC notebooks after Macbook sales took off). Those are also qualities which would make for a killer tablet.

If they can make it thin, light, with a good screen, good battery life, and easy usability at a low price (sub-$500), I can see it taking off. Based on the different businesses I've visited while computer consulting, there were a lot of businesses which could use a computerized clipboard. But I'm doubtful they'll pull it off. Their greed won't allow them to hit the required price point while also hitting the other specs.

RE: Hmmm...
By Alexstarfire on 12/12/2009 2:56:29 AM , Rating: 3
You basically want your cake and to eat it too, which won't happen. All the things you are looking for are completely out of reach when put together.

RE: Hmmm...
By retrospooty on 12/12/2009 4:40:03 PM , Rating: 2
Exactly... No-one could do all that and have it be sub-$500. the thought that Apple (known for a LITTLE bit overpriced products) can do it is laughable. They can put all those features together, sure - if they do it will be $1000

RE: Hmmm...
By Solandri on 12/13/2009 4:20:57 AM , Rating: 2
The question was why tablets have failed in the market. Not whether Apple could make one for less than $500.

RE: Hmmm...
By lco45 on 12/13/2009 6:06:11 PM , Rating: 2
And the answer is that tablets haven't succeeded because they are $1000.
Tablets just aren't that much more useful that a $400 netbook, so unless the price is similar most people will just go with a netbook.


RE: Hmmm...
By Solandri on 12/13/2009 4:19:53 AM , Rating: 3
Nonsense. Netbook tablets hit all those specifications (including price) except thinness because they're designed as laptops first, tablets second. If someone were to design a tablet-only system with a decent UI (Windows tends to be rather bloated for the CPU of these units), it would hit all the specs I outlined.

RE: Hmmm...
By truk007 on 12/12/2009 3:18:48 AM , Rating: 2
I thought Apple was popular mainly due to its brilliant simplicity expounded in their ingenious ads. To boot, everyone will be talking about it as though the wheel has been invented once again. It will succeed because of all the exposure it most likely will have.

In the end every Apple fan will probably be carrying one around, as well as non-Apple fans.

If it's not just a giant iPod touch in functionality, I bet people will use them in lieu of a slightly bulkier netbook despite the anticipated loftier cost.

RE: Hmmm...
By QueBert on 12/13/2009 2:52:39 AM , Rating: 3
I <3 my iPod Touch, if this table comes out and really is just a Touch on Steroids damn right I'll be buying it the day it comes out. I don't care what the price is. My Touch is easily my favorite electronic device ever. A king sized version?? Shit I must have it!

I'm not an Apple fan boy, but it is what it is. And the Touch has hands down the best UI I've ever used on a portable device. I suspect this tablet will be expensive so I better start saving today :(

RE: Hmmm...
By kenji4life on 12/12/2009 7:46:06 AM , Rating: 2
Actually I think if any tablet will catch on it will be from Apple. There are tablet users out there and there are decent tablets out there, but if Apple makes a decent tablet and markets the crap out of it (which is a given), then it could become a new standard from which we compare other tablets to.

I am not a fan of Apple, but anyone can see that they really know how to design & market for the masses (the ones who aren't super frugal anyhow).

By damianrobertjones on 12/11/2009 6:45:15 PM , Rating: 3
I'll say it again, "If people buy this product I'll eat my sock"

I have a HP TC1100 10" tablet and I love it to bits. I also have an Asus R2h which is perfect for internet downloads etc. I've also owned an M750 and 2 M400's, along with a Samsung Q1 ultra.

I really like the UMPC format (Now called mid for some odd reason?) and tablet format BUT, even though people take an interest and make positive comments, NONE of them would think of buying such a product.

That means that apart from myself, I know no other person who owns a mid/tablet. None. Not one. Out of the many, many devices available, plenty at cheap prices... NONE

If this sells I'll scream and shout 'SHEEP'.

RE: No?
By sprockkets on 12/11/2009 9:37:40 PM , Rating: 2
MID is usually ARM powered.

UMPCs were tiny pcs in form factors that totally were out of place for desktop OSes, and thus failed. A $1000 or so price tag didn't help either.

The ARchos 5 Internet tablet MID is much more suited to its form factor.

RE: No?
By Devo2007 on 12/12/2009 11:38:13 PM , Rating: 2
I own an HP Elitebook 2730p 12" tablet, and it's probably my favorite laptop I've ever owned. Of course normally it wouldn't be in the price range of the average consumer, but I managed to snag mine for a great price.

I've always liked the idea of a tablet since it's easy to take notes with, and is very convenient for watching videos (where a keyboard isn't necessary). The fact that programs like Microsoft OneNote are available makes the tablet experience that much better (thanks to a member of another forum, I checked out this app and am using it a fair bit now).

By Etern205 on 12/11/2009 3:29:12 PM , Rating: 2
I've read somewhere saying it will cost $1k.

RE: $
By Etern205 on 12/11/2009 3:33:43 PM , Rating: 2
Found it (pdf)

Scroll down to Money Section, under Briefs

RE: $
By Shig on 12/11/09, Rating: 0
RE: $
By Alexstarfire on 12/12/09, Rating: 0
By lightfoot on 12/11/2009 4:29:13 PM , Rating: 4
Is it possible that apple is just planning a higher resolution iPhone? No that's insane, it must be a tablet!

Nobody will ever need more than 480x320 pixels on a cell phone!

By eddieroolz on 12/12/2009 1:47:13 AM , Rating: 4
Seriously, I don't give a slightest piece of crap about an Apple tablet. It's getting annoying and media should stop reporting it, because all they're doing is being played by Apple.

Different screen sizes == fragmentation?!?!
By tlbj6142 on 12/11/2009 3:42:52 PM , Rating: 2
So, is everyone going to jump on Apple for causing "fragmentation" like they do with Android is its several screen sizes?!?!

By sprockkets on 12/11/2009 8:48:26 PM , Rating: 2
They are currently up to 3 sizes already that can accept apps.


You also have ipod cpus vs. itouch cpus vs. iphone cpus, where the itouch is clocked higher than the iphone.

You also have touch wheels vs. complete touch screen.

At least the iphone 3.0 OS still works on the first gen iphone and gives it new features like cut and paste and bt stereo profile. The Android G1 may not even be upgradeable to 2.0.

By GeorgeBeans on 12/12/2009 10:11:11 AM , Rating: 3
Holy ^@%# Apple MIGHT release something!!!!1 Quick, everyone in the entire universe stop what you are doing and speculate!!! They have a successful music platform and a 4% market share in computing, so naturally a tech site -- ALL TECH SITES -- should cover them, day and night, no matter what, no matter how trivial!!!!!


<end sarcasm>

Seriously, this is a lame device that has been not been released, will cost too much at release, and does not need 24 hour 7 day a week coverage like this and many other tech sites give it. Actually, its pretty sickening.

By dagamer34 on 12/11/2009 4:22:17 PM , Rating: 2
Because of the increased resolution available to a tablet (likely 1280x720), simply "uprezzing" apps doesn't make much sense because what would have made sense at 480*320 becomes stupid to do at 1280*720 on a 8-12+ inch screen.

It'll probably use the same development environment (XCode) and similar APIs (Cocoa), but simple porting from one device to another just doesn't make any sense. Heck, it's like saying the iPhone UI would still be the best if you blew it up by 6x.

By Wodinn on 12/14/2009 8:30:31 AM , Rating: 2
I hope we can glean more from Apple's 'supple chain.'

By aqaq55 on 12/15/2009 7:49:45 AM , Rating: 1

fr ee sh i pp ing

(jordan shoes) $32

(air max) $34



uptopian society is what they are
By SunAngel on 12/11/09, Rating: -1
RE: uptopian society is what they are
By amanojaku on 12/11/2009 3:38:11 PM , Rating: 5
1) an ideal place or state
2) any visionary system of political or social perfection


1) App Store bans
2) Faulty hardware
3) Security risks
4) Data loss and/or corruption
5) Upgrade issues
6) Loss of application compatibility after upgrade
7) Variable pricing, based on consumer outrage
8) Limited functionality devices
9) Expensive hardware
10) The need of a Mac in order to run Mac OS

Yes, all of the above makes for a wonderful utopia. Funny thing is when any other vendor does this it's called a douche.

RE: uptopian society is what they are
By hiscross on 12/11/09, Rating: -1
RE: uptopian society is what they are
By amanojaku on 12/11/2009 3:53:01 PM , Rating: 5
Ignore the serious concerns, like security, data integrity, and failure rate and raise the point that I must be poor if I criticize Apple for things that affect the consumer negatively. I would say "you must own a Mac", but I didn't behave like an ass when I owned my $2,000 PowerBook G4.

Then again, a $2,000 Mac IS cheap. i can has change? *shakes a cup*

RE: uptopian society is what they are
By Smilin on 12/11/2009 4:25:07 PM , Rating: 2
We use PCs to do actual work so yes we have plenty of money. In fact I just used some of it to pickup a copy of Windows 7 for my Dad's MBP. I guess he's not happy in Utopia and wants to come back to the real world.

RE: uptopian society is what they are
By Iaiken on 12/11/2009 4:41:19 PM , Rating: 5
Let me see...

Core i7 920@4GHz - $300
GB-EX58UD5 - $290
Sapphire 5870 - $390
6GB 1.6GHz@7-7-7-20 - $170
Tasteful case - $190
24" Monitor - $300
Razer KB/Mouse - $140
2x1TB HDD - $300
900W PSU - $160
Total - $2240

That's well over the cost of most Macs and I still think they are way overpriced because:

1 - you can't get a mac like this
2 - if you could, it would cost you $4000+

I use this box to develop in over 14 languages, while running various test databases, while video conferencing before I settle down to play any games I want, watch movies, or even go out *gasp* to enjoy the company of other fleshy bags of mostly water...

In conclusion. :P

RE: uptopian society is what they are
By sprockkets on 12/11/2009 8:14:34 PM , Rating: 2
Intel sells a 4ghz processors? The OS was free as well?

A mac with a built in 27" screen and 2.66 Core i5 plus 8GB of RAM and 4850 Radeon graphics and one 2TB drive is $2440. Takes up much less space than you computer as well.

Btw, how much do you charge for repairs? $140 an hour? Geek sqaud wants $300 now for in house repairs. You do tech support as well? How much for that?

I'm not saying your system sucks, but you obviously are missing a critical part of the price of your computer for someone else. I doubt you do support for free on the weekends.

RE: uptopian society is what they are
By HighWing on 12/12/2009 12:41:13 AM , Rating: 3
Btw, how much do you charge for repairs? $140 an hour? Geek sqaud wants $300 now for in house repairs. You do tech support as well? How much for that?

Well since you brought it up, how much does Apple charge for in-house repairs? Oh wait, they don't even offer it! And it's not like Geek Squad is your "only" choice either. In most towns you can find several small PC shops that would repair, as well as some local geek willing to do house calls for real cheap.

Now how many locations do you have to repair an Apple product outside of an Apple store? And how many options do you have that _do_not_ involve sending your apple product to them?

RE: uptopian society is what they are
By sprockkets on 12/13/2009 10:41:10 PM , Rating: 1
Well since you brought it up, how much does Apple charge for in-house repairs? Oh wait, they don't even offer it! And it's not like Geek Squad is your "only" choice either. In most towns you can find several small PC shops that would repair, as well as some local geek willing to do house calls for real cheap. Now how many locations do you have to repair an Apple product outside of an Apple store? And how many options do you have that _do_not_ involve sending your apple product to them?

Buddy, there is this thing called a warranty, where Apple does repairs for free in the first year or extended to 3. Plus with desktop computers they will send authorized techs to come and fix it it.

Since you obviously missed the point, if you sell a computer and only factor in what you paid for it and sold it and it breaks, you already lost money on your sale. Even selling it for $150 profit barely covers the time you spent putting it together or installing the OS. But the first poster didn't factor in any of those costs, whereas Apple and other OEMS have to in order to make any profit.

RE: uptopian society is what they are
By HighWing on 12/14/2009 5:18:50 AM , Rating: 2
Since you obviously missed the point

Nah I think you really missed mine on the point I was trying to make, based on what "you" said. Your original post talked about "aftermarket" repair via Geek Squad. So my comment was on that.

Your response to my comment "failed" to even touch on the points I brought up! IE:
1) How much does apple charge for out of warranty repairs vs PC's
2) How many locations can you repair an apple that are NOT apple stores vs a PC?
3) How many "options" you have for apple repairs vs PC?

Come back with a counter on that and we'll have a real discussion instead of a loosing debate tactic of change the focus/topic from aftermarket repair shops to oem/extended warranties.

Obviously like you chose to do, you can "focus" on one vendor and one repair shop. I get that line of thinking since with apple you really only have "one" choice. But when you back things up a bit and look at the "whole" picture, you find you have "more" choices with a PC.

That in mind, you can't just pick "one" vendor to argue about for PC's as there are thousands. You have to consider them all, or at least a lump of the major ones, otherwise you just look stupid yourself for not seeing the bigger picture. Oh wait I'm sorry, if you have a mac your not used to thinking you have a choice since mac's don't.

Oh and furthermore "buddy"; Your original post didn't mention OEM/extended warranties. That is a completely different topic that Geek Squad has "nothing" to do with. (how you make that connection fails all logic) But you really can't begin to compare warranties here as it varies significantly depending on where your computer came from. Which again you have "more" choices with a PC.

However, since you want to suddenly change the topic from aftermarket repair shops to OEM/extended Warranties, lets really compare that by looking at the "whole" picture and not just "one" PC vendor. With the money you "saved" by buying a PC over a mac, you can pick up an extended warranty that does cover "in home" repairs from most major PC vendors. Pick one of them as NewEgg is "not" one, and we can have a real discussion about that. The difference with a PC is I don't have to pay for it if I don't want it. Plus with a PC we can find situations where if the final cost (w/ in home coverage) does come out to be more then the Mac, you've probably got better/faster hardware then the comparable mac model for that price point.

If you want to start doing some comparing here then you need to compare similar things. And not pick things you know fit your argument that can't even compare right.

Right off the bat I can goto and customize a system with a 3gz dual core processor 4gb ram, 1tb hd, w/ blue ray, 21.5 wide monitor and in home warranty(3 years) for around $1300. Or for the same price I can get a cool touch screen from HP that has a bit more ram, and less HD but still (3yr) in home repair. The Similar mac models start around $1500 and don't even have the blue-ray options... but oh wait, that only covers in-home service for 1 year, it's another $150+ to extend it to 3 years, bring the total price well over $1600

So Mr "I missed your point" here's 2 better PC options that are already a few hundred cheaper then the mac WITH in-home repair. The money saved could still go towards more in-home service and I've "still" spent less then you have on a mac!!! And we haven't even gotten into software!!

By sprockkets on 12/14/2009 1:56:04 PM , Rating: 2
At my shop we've repaired many G4 mac books and can repair any new mac book. They don't have to be repaired by Apple.

And yes, they are expensive, won't deny that. But so is everyone else. That's why most throw away 2 year old Dells and most repair their macs, due to of course their cost.

As long as you understand that when the first poster said his computer was $2240 w/o considering any support/warranty costs and a mac around $2440 with somewhat comparable features which incorporates those costs, and wasn't anywhere near the extortion that he thinks it is, fine.

Oh and considering the length of your reply, you are trying to make this too complicated. It really isn't.

RE: uptopian society is what they are
By Penti on 12/14/2009 8:57:53 PM , Rating: 2
To be fair, iMac is an All-in-one computer, another form factor then the Dell you mentioned and the cheapest model is actually just $1199 USD.

Theirs no comparison for the 27" iMac either, the LGA1156-version uses desktop processors, and pretty good graphics (HD4850), where most other AIO desktops uses GMA4500HD or 9600M, or GT230M and uses a TN screen instead of a IPS-panel.

A 23" All-in-one HP with C2D T9800 2.93GHz, 4GB DDR3, 750GB 7200 rpm drive, GT230M and a 1 year basic warranty costs $1799 with the rebate, A 27" IPS-panel iMac with C2D 3.06GHz, 4GB DDR3, 1TB drive, HD4670 and a 1 year basic warranty costs $1699.
- Which would you rather have? The iMac is cheaper, faster, has a faster graphics card, uses a good IPS-panel, can be bought with HD4850 for $150 more, Apple care is $169 while 3 years on the HP 600xt is $202.99. You can also buy the Core i5/i7 model with HD4850 for from $1999. $2168 with apple care. I don't think some touch function and custom HP software makes up for it... Add a retail copy of Windows 7 HP $180 and a external BD-rom drive for $90 and you got your blu-ray. Sure not free, but only 60 dollars more then the HP 600xt with a BD-rom. It's not like they are that bad. If you like a cheap home or corporate desktop it's not your choice and then just don't choice it.

By sprockkets on 12/13/2009 10:44:25 PM , Rating: 2
Oh, and btw, Apple repairs Macs out of warranty too, in house and so do third party people.

You could always read on what happened with Anand on his own article about his wife's imac, or how he bought a motherboard for when he messed up his new Mac workstation.

RE: uptopian society is what they are
By KeypoX on 12/12/2009 2:45:16 AM , Rating: 2
So you get a laptop cpu, and a generation or two older graphics card.

Along with a system that is not upgradable. And a 1 year warranty with astronomical repair costs after 1 year. Thats assuming apple doesnt drop support of your hardware after 3 years... again.

By KoolAidMan1 on 12/13/2009 3:18:02 AM , Rating: 2
The i5 and i7 iMacs don't use laptop CPUs, the larger enclosure finally enabled desktop CPUs into an all-in-one. Nobody else, not HP, Dell, or Lenovo has that.

The GPU is what it is, you're gonna gonna get performance like my GTX 285 or the newer Radeons, but it's more than what other all-in-ones offer, almost all Intel integrated. Either way, its enough to easily drive that 27" display and a second high res display for HD video editing or image editing, and its actually more than enough to play games like Bioshock, COD4, or Source games (in Windows, obviously) very well at native res if you wanted, easily over 60fps. Drop down to 1920 and it'll obviously be even better.

RE: uptopian society is what they are
By Penti on 12/12/2009 4:39:46 AM , Rating: 2
Well his option is great to run warez on. It's there it bites. Running retail software (as MS tells you you aren't allowed to run OEM) on it isn't cheap, especially if he's gonna run virtualization.

Buying a PC-windows based workstation is by no means cheaper. Just look at a dual processor HP Z800. That's a starting price of $5295. And goes for $5935 for two Xeon X5570, 6GB DDR3 ECC, 320GB and zero graphic card! So it would cost pretty much exactly the same as a nearly identical Mac Pro with a workstation card (FX4800). If thats not what you need don't buy! And don't complain.

RE: uptopian society is what they are
By Alexstarfire on 12/12/2009 9:35:35 AM , Rating: 1
How did you get from a home user desktop computer to a workstation computer?

RE: uptopian society is what they are
By Penti on 12/12/2009 5:28:21 PM , Rating: 1
Mac Pro is a workstation. Home built computer running warez for doing work and run games shouldn't be compared with it. He said he did fucking work on it ok? Then it's not really a home user desktop. Not really a corporate desktop either when it's a four GHz Nehalem. Both HP Z800 and HP Z600 costs about 6000 dollars with two X5570 without a graphics card at all. Theres no reason for buying a Mac Pro just to get a quadcore home user PC. iMacs not perfect but it's pretty damn good for what you get, especially in that form-factor. When doing work they can fit pretty good too, there running warez doesn't fit so good.

By KoolAidMan1 on 12/13/2009 2:48:53 AM , Rating: 2
Because that's what Mac Pros are. Price a Dell Precision T5500 series workstations against a Mac Pro, the Mac Pro actually comes out cheaper with identical specs. i7 Nehalem Xeons are NOT cheap, and HP is worst of all, way more expensive than what Dell or Apple have to offer.

RE: uptopian society is what they are
By chick0n on 12/13/09, Rating: -1
By KoolAidMan1 on 12/13/2009 2:45:33 AM , Rating: 2
Sure, let's see a Mac with a comparable consumer CPU.

27" iMac with 2560 by 1440 LED backlit IPS display, i7 860 CPU that will outrun an i7 920 unless you're overclocking it (you are), 4GB RAM, Radeon 4850, 1TB HD, Bluetooth keyboard and mouse, silent all-in-one enclosure, total cost, $2200.

I own one, sitting right next to my i7 860 based PC with GTX 285 video card (from a prior PC) and feeding into a $1200 NEC 2490WUXi LCD, same panel as the prior 24" iMac and still the best 24" H-IPS display out there. The NEC is also the secondary display for my iMac, and its the first time I've seen it bested by another display. The 27" display in the iMac is just amazing. If I had to pick between your configuration and an iMac, I'd go with the iMac, mainly because that 24" monitor you are using is a horrible TN at that price.

You talk about value. Right now I see incredible value in Apple's current iMac lineup due to the display. Dell has a 30" LCD right now with similar panel specs, $1700 by itself. This would fairly price the 27" panel in the iMac at $1500 range if Dell sold it individually. That Apple sells that panel with a fast computer built in starting at $1700 is amazing. They must have absolutely squeezed LG on volume pricing or something.

Bump up your display to something competitive in image quality, even something like Dell's upcoming 24" IPS displays in the $600 range (finally), then we can talk. If you get cheap parts then of course you're going to end up with a cheaper computer. I dunno, I don't count skimping on the display to be saving anything, but then again my PC costs have never been low either. My current build cost almost as much as my iMac, without the NEC display I got tow years ago, thanks to my 256GB SSD and my Corsair 800D case. The one time I bought a TN panel it went back the same day, can't stand the damn things.

RE: uptopian society is what they are
By damianrobertjones on 12/11/2009 6:49:48 PM , Rating: 1
Many, many people can afford a mac and your comment is exactly what the apple adverts are trying to do, maipulate weak minded poeple into thiking that they're special if they buy a mac. There's nothing special about a mac. I downgraded my car to an MR2 Mk3 roadster but that didn't bother me, as my ePeen's a great size so I don't need toys to make up for it.

Also, does this make sense to anyone?

Mac mini: £556.81
Core 2 2.26Ghz
2Gb Ram (4Gb max)
9400M Nvidia

Aspire X3812: £429.95
Core 2 Quad 2.5Ghz
4Gb Ram (8Gb max)
1Tb hard drive
Intel GMA X4500
9 usb ports
5.1 Card Reader
(Win 7 HP x64)
With the remaining cash place a PCI-E x16 card that will leave the mini's 9400m for dust.

One looks MUCH better than the other though. Hmmm?

By KoolAidMan1 on 12/13/2009 3:00:58 AM , Rating: 2
Mac Minis are horrible values, expensive only because they needlessly cram expensive components into tiny cases. Mac notebooks carry premiums but the keyboards, multitouch trackpads, motion sensor, light sensor, 8 hour battery life, total OS/hardware integration, make the premium worth it to some people. And they're honestly not priced that far off from a Dell XPS or a midrange Lenovo.

iMacs and Mac Pros are actually very well priced desktops, probably the best values Apple offers. The 2560 by 1440 LCD backlit IPS display in the 27" iMac would cost $1500 by itself from Dell (their 30" with similar specs is $1700), and with a fast computer built in the iMacs start at $1700. Throw an i5 and a faster GPU in there and its only another $300. If you built a separate DIY tower yourself from Newegg and paired it with a comparable LCD you'd be in the same ballpark range, and this is against an all-in-one which is more expensive to manufacture. Same with the 21.5" iMacs and their 1920x1200 H-IPS panels. Not as amazing a value as the 27" but still well priced. The Mac Pros actually price cheaper than a Dell or HP workstation with the same specs. The real hole in Apple's lineup is a lack of desktops with PCI-E expansion and consumer level CPUs, something that isn't a $1000+ Xeon. That said, the iMacs, while not ideal for everyone, are excellent values given the quality of the components they are currently using.

But yeah, the Mini is crap. :)

By sprockkets on 12/11/2009 9:04:23 PM , Rating: 2
I don't think Apple is a utopia either, but about 8/10 things you posted are exaggerations.

RE: uptopian society is what they are
By Fenixgoon on 12/11/2009 4:35:21 PM , Rating: 1
so where do i go to have fun and play games?

RE: uptopian society is what they are
By SunAngel on 12/11/2009 5:46:49 PM , Rating: 2
May I suggest the PlayStation Network.

RE: uptopian society is what they are
By themaster08 on 12/12/2009 5:52:36 AM , Rating: 2
Yup, after feeling smug spending $2500 on that shiny new Mac of yours, sure, go ahead and spend another $300 to play all of those PlayStation games you don't own.

You'd be better off just buying the PS3 and using it's built-in browser, because for the life of me, I can't imagine what else you would be doing with your Mac.

I have nothing against people that purchase a Mac, but for me, I'd prefer own my computer rather than it owning me.

RE: uptopian society is what they are
By TypeB on 12/12/2009 10:35:48 PM , Rating: 2
What he said.

In addition, I'm not a mac fan nor do I have anything against Apple. I refuse to upgrade my 1st generation iphone which is unlocked, works on any carrier using a sim card, and is hack out the ass for my needs-I mean I can power on my system at home remotely, log into my destop do or transfer what I need shutdown and keep going within minutes and also already in the base price 8GB of space off the bat. And I add, screw who ever doesn't support manipulation of your purchased property. Again not an apple fan but, if it works I'll give jack his jacket, and the bloody iphone works all the way up to the 3GS.
Now other than the cost of their machines which we can all agree are over priced e.g. the first gen iphone unarguably was and the mac book's still are considering for the same price you get more from other oem's (if you ignore weight and battery life)... Paying a premium for less doesn't sit well for most of us who are technically inclined e.g. 2GB instead of 4GB of memory, a 150GB harddrive instead of 500-1TB harddrive, on average a lower clocked processor instead of a higher clocked one,(that's considering the price your paying by the way; as far as Laptops go, okay they may be trying to make the best of power consumption which they are good due to said choice.) lack of things such as combo optical drives/burners at the base price or these days blueray, and for the limited upgrade parts which are overpriced e.g. graphic cards and memory anyone could see why some of us feel the way we do about Apple.
I'll go one further, I upgraded my machine just within the past month: i7 920 from microcenter for $200(that's not a rebate, its how they sell the beauty) 6GB HyperX 2000mhz memory for $178 and a EVGA X58 SLI for $220. Now my i7 is now overclocked to 4+GHZ and and OS X installed smoothly-and yes I know it takes some knowledge to pull of both those things. But, my point is you can't get a mac this powerful for $1000. Minus the overclock you can get a desktop from most OEM's with slightly similar specs for that price and if you throw the OEM install of windows out the window with your warranty I think, and opt for a clean install you will have an excellent machine above the specs and below the price of a mac. Again, we just dislike the price. I'll ignore the Linux lovers against X because its the same bed different sheets on the surface and the surface is what matters in the end. Jack has his jacket but, he just paid too damn much for it. If the Tablet mac is as functionally and innovative as the iphone which I'm sure it will be, for under 700 I'll get it and have fun tearing it apart for years to come. If it cost more and is less powerful than a laptop forget it. I think most will agree to that.

RE: uptopian society is what they are
By TypeB on 12/12/2009 10:37:35 PM , Rating: 2
And I don't use X by the way I did it just because. Windows more than does what I need it to do.

"So if you want to save the planet, feel free to drive your Hummer. Just avoid the drive thru line at McDonalds." -- Michael Asher
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