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Steve Jobs and Apple may have some legal maneuvering to get through with this latest lawsuit.  (Source: Reuters)

It looks like Apple's MacBooks are a few crayons short of a box of Crayolas, as they say. Their suposedly "millions of colors"-sporting display can only display 262,144 thanks to cost cutting.  (Source: Apple Inc.)
New suit goes to show be careful what you promise

Be careful your product lives up to what you advertise it to be and be careful it does what you say it will do; that's the lesson that many tech companies are learning the hard way.  Microsoft recently found that out as its facing an uphill battle to fight against a class lawsuit alleging it intentionally deceived using "Vista Capable" stickers to sell chipsets.

Now Apple is mired in a similar mess, based on some of its a bit exaggerated claims.  Apple's bold advertising claim that its MacBooks support "millions of colors." The only problem -- MacBook LCD are only 6-bit TN models, only allowing for only 262,144 colors.  A true 8-bit display would indeed support "millions of colors", 16,777,216 colors in fact.  However, Apple opted to ditch the eight bit display in favor of a cheaper 6 bit one, despite the high cost of Macs.

Apple had already been sued once over the issue.  A pair of MacBook owners, Fred Greaves and Dave Gately, filed a class action suit against Apple last May for the claim.  Most lawyers at the time dismissed the case as frivolous.  The case's own lawyers realized that they would not be able to obtain class action due to difficulty finding enough plaintiffs who bought the Macs singly on the "millions of colors" advertising, and thus pursued alternative legal action, adding to many observers cyncism on the seriousness of the suit.  The suit became even more of a joke in the legal community when it buttressed its claims with discussion board threads from apple.com support and other online fora showing customers angry about the poor LCD quality. 

The pair's representation cited numerous comments such as, "I’m so tired of dealing with Apple at this point, that I don’t have the energy or time to continue even though they’ve done everything they possibly could," one of the anonymous comments posted on Apple.com's customer support.

Despite being blown off as a frivolous suit, Greaves and Gately scored an unlikely victory against Apple.  Apple settled with the pair out of court last month, bringing the case to a close.  Part of Apple's settlement agreement was that the pair could not discuss the precise settlement terms with the press.  Thus it is uncertain exactly how much Apple paid the pair for to drop the suit and for their silence.

Apple isn't the first manufacturer to make the 6-bit versus 8-bit claim. Then AnandTech editor and present DailyTech editor Kristopher Kubicki blasted Dell, Viewsonic, Samsung and other display manufacturers for similar practices in 2004.  Most of these companies were also successfully sued for misleading consumers about the color depth of their monitors.

In 2004, AU Optoelectronics -- the largest manufacturer of 6-bit LCD panels at the time -- attempted to deflect the 6-bit claim by advertising its panels use interpolation techniques to create millions of colors.  The argument then shifted to whether or not "millions of colors" means "millions of colors at the same time."  However, interpolation techniques use more RGB cells to generate colors, and cannot really be compared to 8-bit panels.

However, the legal woes for Apple about "millions of colors" is hardly over.  Hot on the heels of the settlement, Los Angeles legal firm powerhouse, Kabateck Brown Kellner, smelled blood and filed a class action against Apple for false advertising.  The firm is well known for its pending class action suit against Network Solutions over domain name tasting and its click-fraud suit against Google, among many high profile legal actions.

Managing partner Brian Kabatech states, "Apple is duping its customers into thinking they’re buying 'new and improved' when in fact they’re getting stuck with 'new and inferior'."

Apple, no stranger to class action suits, refused to comment on the pending suit, but given their previous settlement and Kabateck Brown Kellner's shining class action track record, they surely are a bit worried.  Kabateck Brown Kellner meanwhile insists that its not just out to loot Apple; rather it states its trying to bring the consumer justice after being harmed by Apple.  The firm says it wants "to help those customers who were deceived and make sure Apple tells the truth in the future."


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My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By Snuffalufagus on 4/2/2008 1:46:37 PM , Rating: 5
Say it isn't so!




RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By Pirks on 4/2/08, Rating: -1
RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By VashHT on 4/2/2008 2:26:56 PM , Rating: 2
Get off it man, your argument is pathetic at best. Next you're going to be saying the Intel processors for Macs are special and magically better than their PC counterparts.


RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By Pirks on 4/2/08, Rating: -1
RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By steve1014 on 4/2/2008 2:49:09 PM , Rating: 3
Just man up and admit that Apple has been caught lying. You were awfully critcal of Microsoft because "Vista Capable" machines didn't do EVERYTHING in Vista. But at least they would run Vista on a basic level.

Apple didn't even get close. And for what so they could save a few dollars on a machine that costs $2K-$3K. They should be ashamed and if they know whats good for them, they'll settle.

Who cares if there are other good parts in there? The part you told me was going to be in there is not.


RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By Pirks on 4/2/08, Rating: -1
RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By JoshuaBuss on 4/2/2008 7:44:00 PM , Rating: 2
i wonder what pirks thinks of the 17" HP laptops with superior graphics cards, cpus, and hard drives in them compared to the MBP, with even more 'luxory' features like the media center remote and what not..

oh, and of course the fact that it's all available for as much as $1,000 less...


RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By Pirks on 4/2/08, Rating: -1
RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By Runiteshark on 4/2/2008 8:38:35 PM , Rating: 2
So you pay twice as much, get a slightly faster gpu, a higher res screen with better lighting and a non lit up keyboard?

Sounds like a kickin' deal to me.

And by kickin' I mean stupid. Because you can have that minus the stupid buttons for another $200, lol.


RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By Pirks on 4/2/08, Rating: -1
RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By Runiteshark on 4/3/2008 1:57:54 AM , Rating: 1
What? How is the leather that Lexus uses any better then Chevys?

How is the C2D in the Macs any better whats in the PCs?

I think you getting a little to jumpy with the car references here. If you want to compare a Lexus to a Chevy, Compare the Lexus to the Cadillacs. Oh suddenly its not so easy is it? They are about the same price, but both are decent vehicles. Any further and its a personal preference, and I don't care either way you go.

Speaking of, my friends just bought a GX470, wonderful car it is, but it cost them around $50k or so, they chose it because they liked the reliability of Lexus (Toyota). Its all a personal perference.


RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By Pirks on 4/3/08, Rating: 0
RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By gescom on 4/3/2008 5:52:18 AM , Rating: 2
please explain why is apple MBP LED so much better
Apple - LED backlit 1920x1200 17"
HP - TFT WUXGA+ WVA 1920x1200 17"

btw,
http://arstechnica.com/journals/apple.ars/2007/06/...
view angles? same gamut? cheap LED inside? how come?

thank you


RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By Runiteshark on 4/3/2008 9:48:42 AM , Rating: 2
No its the cheap 6 bit panels Apple uses inside :)


RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By Pirks on 4/3/2008 12:44:08 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
it's the cheap 6 bit panels Apple uses inside
Where's the proof with the pictures of the disassembled MacBook Pro, with clearly visible LCD panel model/number and a link to the panel manufacturer's site?


RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By Pirks on 4/3/08, Rating: -1
RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By gescom on 4/3/2008 2:19:48 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
Yeah, please someone explain this poor soul why LED backlight is better than CCFL one, starting with color gamut and power consumption.

quote:
"cheap LED-powered displays can have a worse-than-usual gamut", which is obviously NOT the case with MBP LED, you could see that yourself being not the illiterate idiot you are, excuse me for some straight talk here), so learn to read and stop posting obvious bullshit here, thank you.


http://www.samsung.com/global/business/lcdpanel/pr...
http://www.samsung.com/global/business/lcdpanel/pr...
http://www.lgdisplay.com/homeContain/jsp/eng/prd/p... (LP154WP2)
The second one has LED backlight, Color Saturation 45% (the same as others), 500:1 contrast (others 500, 600), brightness 300 (others 330, 500), 262k colors (all of them),..
Well respect for being technically knowledgeable, please enlighten me, where's the difference.
Sure LED backlight is better (in theory) than CCFL one, but that was not the case with 15.4" MBP LED display, specially not with the first MBP LED series. Apple users are rather TIRED of shipping and waiting for the replacement. It seems like you have to be really lucky to pick one without any problems. We are talking about 2.000++ Euros apple superior notebooks here.
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=31323...
http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=...
(among many others)

Best,
g.


RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By Pirks on 4/3/2008 6:28:33 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
LP154WP2
How do you know this one is for LED MBP, not for CCFL one?
quote:
http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=...
Yeah, a bunch of users report some factory calibration issues easily fixable by applying a tuned color profile. Some other people got defective notebooks which happens with every manufacturer, Apple is no exception, just read this from your thread: "no problems whatsoever on this monitor. It looks phenomenal. Even the stock color profile is pretty good. _This thing is very comparable to my 23" ACD in color rendition_" - looks like those stupid photographers just got burnt with a defective MacBook or something.

Looks like nothing interesting here.

Is it all you got?


RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By maven81 on 4/3/2008 6:29:56 PM , Rating: 2
Now where's your proof? We're waiting!


RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By Pirks on 4/3/2008 7:24:09 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
where's your proof?
I have only PowerMac G5 here, which doesn't help much. And no Apple displays either, just a couple of cheapo office Dell shit, 19" or something, 'cause I'm not doing colorimetry or retouching jobs on that Mac ;-)

Besides, it's you guys who started saying Apple is lying and stuff. When I asked you where exactly are they lying and what concrete data you have on that (explicit marketing claims from apple.com, links to hardware and stuff like that) you guys immediately jumped back and tried to dodge my questions, asking ME to prove that Apple was not lying.

But I don't know that! I have never seen any trouble with MacBooks I used earlier (before my current PowerMac) and I have never seen any Apple marketing claims you guys are talking about, something about "professional graphics work". I dunno about you but I always knew that Apple has a line of Cinema monitors for professional graphics work, and this knowledge makes me wander what the heck all this fuss is about?

Nobody is giving me precise answers, and instead you ask me to prove something? Doh... I just don't care what you believe in, guys, to each his faith. Your faith is not my consern, but if you have solid concrete arguments - then we can talk.

I don't wanna talk about your BELIEFS and your FAITH, guys

Is that clear?


RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By JoshuaBuss on 4/2/2008 10:58:46 PM , Rating: 2
ok, you got me with the GPU.. i thought HP was using the new ones already. no worries.. I still have a point to make..

how about an alienware with dual 8700 GTs?
http://www.alienware.com/product_detail_pages/area...

how about a velocity micro with dual 8800M GTX's? note the option to add 3 solid state hard drives in Raid 0 too...
http://www.velocitymicro.com/wizard.php?iid=147

how about a sleek sony AR series for well under 2 grand?
http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet...

i could keep going for a while... and this is just for 17" notebooks!

several of these even have blu-ray burners included..
http://www.falcon-nw.com/
http://www.dell.com/content/products/productdetail...
http://www.powernotebooks.com/category.php?catId=2...

sure, each will have some strengths and weaknesses compared to your precious MBP, but the point I'm trying to make is unless for some reason you're convinced that a backlit keyboard is something you absolutely can't live without there are INFINITELY MORE CHOICES when it comes to PCs... from cheap and practical to way more luxurious than anything apple makes (show me the macbook pro with 2 8800m GTXs, 3 solid state hard drives in raid0, and a blu-ray burner..)

your tired argument of comparing apple to lexus is getting very old. at best they are they nike of the computing world.. expensive with only marginally good reasons.

these references to 'lexus' in apple-related articles here on dailytech and the fact that your average post rating is now below 0.75 are all indicative of the fact that your views are a complete joke and are purely comedic for the majority of us who read this site.

please find some new way to support your fanboism or, more preferably, kindly do us all a favor and give it up completely and admit apple really needs to stop with its bullsh*t 'image over functionality' approach to marketing and release more industry-changing technologies/devices like the iphone.


RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By Pirks on 4/3/08, Rating: -1
RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By JoshuaBuss on 4/3/2008 11:04:46 AM , Rating: 2
first of all, i have an amd workstation which runs linux, so you can't call me a 'wintel' zealot.

second, your not getting fanatical, braindead responses, you're the one who isn't listening. just because you can find an expensive notebook on newegg doesn't mean that GENERALLY speaking apple hardware isn't more expensive than similarly equipped pc notebooks. a notebook similar in power to the macbook can be had for $400 after some good rebates, and a notebook similar in power to the macbook pro can be had for around $1500. now, you're going to say "but they don't offer COMFORT FEATUREZ" and sure, you're right. there's a premium for apple hardware, and that's what teldar was trying to say. you even admit to it to, so I don't understand why you didn't understand that.

it's obvious to you that you value things other than price/performance, which makes your decision to <3 the 17" macbook pro make sense, but if you would LISTEN, you'd understand that YOU are the one who prefers an extremely niche product. a laptop that doesn't offer the same performance but costs a lot more for 'comfort' is NOT what most people are looking for, it's what YOU'RE looking for.

2 more things-

i pointed out the better gpus because you used that as a reason to diss the HP. is it important or isn't it? at least you have some real options with pcs...

oh, and most of those 17" laptops had led backlit 1900x1200 displays.. if not standard as options. that's pretty much the norm with 17" 'wintel' laptops.


RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By Pirks on 4/3/08, Rating: 0
RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By JoshuaBuss on 4/3/2008 2:22:41 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
Wintel zealot can run anything, it does not matter what hardware you run, it's your attitude that matters. The moment you post obvious bullshit about Apple and Wintel PCs (AMD == Intel in this context) you're a Wintel zealot to me. It's just the convenient term that characterizes all of the guys like you and it has nothing to do with hardware. Windows is also a generalization in this context. Again, Wintel zealotry is all about your attitude, not your hardware.


The only "attitude" I have is that you're a persistent, annoying, fanboi. I have no inherent bias toward or against windows, intels, pcs, or anything apple. I like macbook pros. I think they get a lot of things right. But comparing them to lexus and trying to convince everyone of that is a lost cause. They are NOT the 'luxury' laptop you seem to think they are.. they just have a few special features you really care about. Great for you! We get it! You can go on with your life now. It's a good thing when a manufacturer makes a product that fits your needs well. You should've realized the humor in the original post and left it at that. It's long been known that apple skimps in a lot of areas.. they often use budget ram, budget paint, and budget other things too.. but it's not like no one else is doing this.. you're right about that.

The deal here is, Apple f'd up with a bigger issue than normal. When building a machine that's advertised as being able to handle professional graphics work, they shouldn't skimp out in an area that really matters like the screen. That's ALL that's being said here.. and even you should agree. The 17" mbp uses a better panel.. an 8bit one. You should realize how wrong it is for them to use 6bit ones in the 15" models and misleadingly advertise otherwise..

quote:
There's a difference between niche product who appeals to a niche market and a niche product that appeals to the mass market. In the latter case the product is niche because it's out of reach for most people, but most people still desire it. Compare it to the case where only a few gaming freaks desire huge and heavy 17" monsters from Alienware. See the difference?


If the macbook pro appealed to the mass market, it would be popular. It's not. Most people don't have expensive 15" and 17" laptops, they have cheap 14 and 15" laptops. The mbp is a niche product AND is aimed at a niche market. Remember, price is a huge part of a market. You would argue that yourself.. since lexus isn't targeted at the "economy" market.

Oh, and actually, the alienware I linked is only half an inch thicker than mbps... 1.5" vs. 1.0". it's one of the other thinnest 17" laptops around.. and that's WITH the 3 hard drives and dual GPUs.. that sure sounds more luxurious to me! but to each his own...


RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By Pirks on 4/3/2008 6:42:13 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
they just have a few special features you really care about
I can say the same about your alienware notebooks - only a few extreme gamers and YOU care about them, good for you! Mass market isn't bothered with extreme gaming machines like alienware.
quote:
machine that's advertised as being able to handle professional graphics work
Where did you read that part about "PROFESSIONAL GRAPHICS WORK"? Care to provide a link?
quote:
You should realize how wrong it is for them to use 6bit ones in the 15" models and misleadingly advertise otherwise
I don't see where they explicitly lied about their 15" panels being "8-bit". I also don't see where they lied about millions of colors, since you can get those millions even on a 6-bit panel with dithering. So where did they explicitly lie, actually?
quote:
If the macbook pro appealed to the mass market, it would be popular. It's not
When I said appealing - I meant that most mass market consumers WANT it, the issue of affordability is totally another thing.

iPod was not popular in the beginning, but got popular later starting from the premium segment and going down.

Same may be happening with Macs in future. Important point here is that all the Apple products have mass appeal, in that masses WANT them, and sometimes Apple LETS MASSES have them, like they did with iPod. Sometimes Apple decides to stay in upper market segment for some reason and make high profits only there, making other Wintel clonemakers green with envy. Which does NOT change my point about MASS APPEAL. It means mass consumer always wants Apple product, but Apple not always lets the average Joe to have it.


RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By steve1014 on 4/4/2008 12:28:55 PM , Rating: 1
You should really grow up and just accept that you are making a fool of yourself. And not because we are all "wintel zealots" but because you have this blind affinity for holding Apple to be a god amongst corporations.
DailyTech is not marking down your comments because they hate Apple they are marking you down because every time you post, it is full of rhetoric and nonsensical arguments that clearly show your unbelievable bias towards Apple. Maybe if you used a little more sense and opened your mind on the comment boards you would do a lot better around here.

The allegations in this story are undisputed by Apple yet you choose to fight them tooth and nail. GROW UP! Apple lied and will now pay their way out of it. I'm sorry your corporate God has let you down but it is what it is.

(This post is so worth a 5)


RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By Pirks on 4/4/2008 3:24:18 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
they are marking you down because every time you post, it is full of rhetoric and nonsensical arguments that clearly show your unbelievable bias towards Apple
No, you got it wrong. DT readers have the only principle they follow when they mark posts up or down - the guy who first says "Apple makes hardware that's twice more expensive as the same PC harwdare" is AUTOMATICALLY getting rating of 5, and the guy who presents several FACTS that denounce this lie imemdiately gets rating of -1.

You wanna check this out yourself? No problem - look at this post for example: http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=11305...

See how this stupid zealot manipulates FACTS? He just gets Dell hardware with FOUR CPU cores and compares it with Mac Pro with EIGHT CPU cores, and tells me they cost the same and hence... Dell wins! This guy gets all the high ratings, and my FACTUAL posts that disprove these zealots always get -1.

It's very simple, man - it's DT, the place where high rating is earned by lying and spewing BS.

Just check the facts, and check my posts and posts of zealots like teldar and jlips6 and Quescent (the stupid girl with Eee PC) and other zealots. You'll see very clear what are they getting their high rating for.


By elpresidente2075 on 4/2/2008 10:54:40 PM , Rating: 2
YOU LEAVE MAN-BEAR-PIG OUT OF THIS!!


RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By otispunkmeyer on 4/2/2008 8:47:11 PM , Rating: 2
im pretty sure 6bit panels are present in the Air and the 15.4inch MB - Pro and i'd hazard a guess that the only model that gets an 8bit screen is the 17inch model

these arent the cheap ones. these are the expensive pro models, the ones that get used for stuff like graphics and photos and videos...ie where a good screen is neccessary


RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By Pirks on 4/2/08, Rating: -1
RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By JoshuaBuss on 4/2/2008 11:09:18 PM , Rating: 2
1 - Want hard proof? How about CNET? http://www.news.com/8301-13579_3-9903602-37.html?t...
quote:
There's an option in the Displays screen, under System Preferences in Mac OS X, in which you can set the Colors option to "millions." The thing is, the MacBook Pro uses a 6-bit display , and Apple can get to that "millions" number only by using a technique called dithering, which basically blends pixels together to create a shading effect.


2 - No, it isn't that simple. Apple is TELLING people their computers are capable of millions of colors. That is a 100% lie. The computers can only MIMIC millions of colors, and this can cause problems for graphics people, who sadly, contain large numbers of people who think they need macs to do their work. It'd be like LEXUS saying their new SUV has 800 hp when it only has 400 and some kind of fake acceleration effect.


RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By Pirks on 4/3/08, Rating: -1
RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By JoshuaBuss on 4/3/2008 11:08:47 AM , Rating: 1
unlike Apple, CNET has a reputation of only publishing facts to keep up. I doubt they'd write that if it wasn't true.


RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By Pirks on 4/3/2008 1:15:31 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
CNET has a reputation of only publishing facts to keep up
I haven't argued that CNET published facts about someone SAYING that MBP has 6-bit LCD panel. I only wanted to see a PROOF of that, and CNET has no proof (pictures of disassembled MBP and such). Does anyone else has a proof?

Again, not a proof of someone SAYING that MBP has 6-bit panel, I'm NOT talking about THAT kind of proof.

Did I make myself clear this time?


RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By JoshuaBuss on 4/3/2008 2:01:34 PM , Rating: 2
good lord you're annoying.

let's see.. macbook pro panel picture:
http://www.thebookyard.com/images/mbplcdgloss.jpg

lg panel.. let's see what LG makes:
http://www.lgdisplay.com/homeContain/jsp/eng/prd/p...

hmm.. interesting.. none of their 15" panels offer 8bit color.. wow!

samsung makes a panel for the MBP too...
http://www.samsung.com/global/business/lcdpanel/pr...

darn, still not 8bit. convinced yet? somehow i still doubt it.


RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By Pirks on 4/3/2008 6:48:11 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
good lord you're annoying
1) This pic may be for CCFL panel, not the LED one, how do I know it's a _LED_ backlit one?

I heard that the problem with those photographers popped up soon after the LED backlit Apple notebooks appeared, is that correct?

2) Let's assume that you found me a hard proof that LED backlit widescreen 15" MacBook Pro panel is indeed 6-bit.

My next question will be this: where exactly did Apple LIE to customers about millions of colors, if you can INDEED get those millions of colors with dithering?


RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By VashHT on 4/2/2008 11:14:39 PM , Rating: 2
So now you're arguing a technical point on Macs. A technical point that Apple settled on in court. Well I guess you know Macs better than Apple Pirks, forget the guys who ake it you know better than them. Just because you can't find it it must not exist huh? Seriously you're not the end all god on Mac facts get off it.


RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By Pirks on 4/3/08, Rating: 0
RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By spluurfg on 4/3/2008 7:49:40 AM , Rating: 2
This has to be the most amazing thing I've ever read.

So let me get this straight. Suppose I'm the plaintiff, and you're Apple.

I go to you claiming that your marketing representations are false. You prove me wrong, then somehow get me to agree to tell nobody about it (evidently you didn't pay me to do so), leaving the door wide open for other people to waste your time and money with further lawsuits about the same thing.

Yes Pirks, that sounds entirely plausible.


RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By Pirks on 4/3/2008 1:33:25 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
I go to you claiming that your marketing representations are false. You prove me wrong, then somehow get me to agree to tell nobody about it (evidently you didn't pay me to do so), leaving the door wide open for other people to waste your time and money with further lawsuits about the same thing.
I prove you wrong but I'm not sure my marketing claims are for absolutely all the people. I know my claims are true for about 99% of the people, i.e. for all of those who are not elite professional photographers. So I decide to settle out of court because I don't want to change my marketing campaign because of two photographers. It's easier for me to explain them all their mistakes in private, and don't bother with my marketing campaign at all. Since my settlement out of court worked pretty nice, why should I bother with that anymore? If some other photographer comes to me again, I'll politely explain to him/her that my LCD panels targeted at professional photographers are sold as a separate product called "Apple Cinema display", and there are no professional photographers at all who use 15" notebooks that are sold on the market right now.

Given these solid arguments (which you can't just dismiss unless you are another stupid fanatic) all these potential future plaintiffs are guaranteed to get pissed off (read: settled out of court privately and walking away understanding how dumb they are for trying to use non-professional-photograph targeted products for their work) so why bother with my marketing and such? It's way easier for me to pay some wad of cash to a couple of lawyers and settle all this stupid crap privately. I make billions so this is less than a peanut for me.

Now let's see how fanatical you are, and whether you're going to just dismiss my scenario w/o arguments like any fanatic will... or if you are not fanatic - in this case you at least are going to try and give me some solid counter arguments. I'm waiting :)


RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By spluurfg on 4/3/2008 4:14:37 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Now let's see how fanatical you are, and whether you're going to just dismiss my scenario w/o arguments like any fanatic will... or if you are not fanatic - in this case you at least are going to try and give me some solid counter arguments. I'm waiting :)


I'm afraid I will have to dismiss your argument because it doesn't make sense. You still haven't explained why they would have gotten the plaintiffs to agree to complete confidentiality if there were nothing wrong with their marketing -- it's essentially inviting more lawsuits, which evidently is the case:

quote:
Hot on the heels of the settlement, Los Angeles legal firm powerhouse, Kabateck Brown Kellner, smelled blood and filed a class action against Apple for false advertising.


But... it suddenly dawns upon me that nobody is truly this dense, and the only possibility is that you are joking around with the entire dailytech forum base with these outrageous pro-mac arguments without anybody noticing your dry humor... Either that or you must be too young to have any understanding of civil law suits.


RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By Pirks on 4/3/2008 8:45:15 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
You still haven't explained why they would have gotten the plaintiffs to agree to complete confidentiality if there were nothing wrong with their marketing
I wish I knew their reasons for that, but I don't know. I just speculate and propose my own rumor versus your rumor. How is your rumor is any better than mine? You belive in your rumor, I believe in mine. Piece and friendship, freedom of beliefs! Let everyone believe in their own version of universe, okay? ;-)


RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By maven81 on 4/3/2008 9:53:27 AM , Rating: 2
Get off it. I have a macbook pro, do you? Not only does it have a 6 bit panel but it's coating makes it look grainy and shimmery. You need only ask actual macbook pro owners about this, rather then pulling stuff out of your ass again.


RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By Pirks on 4/3/2008 1:58:23 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
Not only does it have a 6 bit panel
How do you know its panel is 6-bit? Have you disassembled it?


RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By maven81 on 4/3/2008 2:21:17 PM , Rating: 2
I don't have to disassemble it. I merely have to look at it next to an 8 bit panel. The difference is very obvious. But then not only has it been proven that no one makes an 8 bit panel with the exact same specs... (where does apple get them, aliens?) some people have even tracked down the exact samsung panel... http://media.arstechnica.com/journals/apple.media/...

But keep arguing that the sky is green...


RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By Pirks on 4/3/2008 7:03:01 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
keep arguing that the sky is green
Keep arguing that Apple was the culprit of those photographers' problems. These guys just couldn't realize that it's a good idea to TEST YOUR PROFSSIONAL INSTRUMENT RIGHT AWAY, and IMMEDIATELY return it to the store if you don't like it.

In fact it's also true for the Vista Capable fraud case.

It's not clear to me that MS is culprit there as well, maybe it's those stupid customers who should have returned those bad notebooks RIGHT AWAY if they didn't like them?


RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By VashHT on 4/3/2008 11:13:27 AM , Rating: 2
Well Pirks, it seems you're willing to assume anything as long as it supports Apple. I mean come on, does the situation you just described even make any sense at all. After months of dealing with customer support these guys take Apple to court only to find out that they were wrong the whole time, and instead of just winning the case Apple settles with them for some reason and asks them to keep the fact that Apple was indeed right a secret from the rest of the world. Yes I could assume this, but unfortunately it makes no sense so I wouldn't believe it.

Oh yeah this might blow your mind but I use other products besides Windows and Intel, such as AMD and I have Ubuntu installed on my secondary HDD.

Would it be too much to ask you to admit that Apple might actually be wrong for once, because you just can't seem to accept it.


RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By Pirks on 4/3/2008 1:50:07 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
instead of just winning the case Apple settles with them for some reason and asks them to keep the fact that Apple was indeed right a secret from the rest of the world
Perfectly normal situation - Apple might want to leave its marketing campaign intact, and avoid changing everything just because of 2 photographers. That's why they settled with them in private. They don't want to add SPECIFIC disclaimer in their marketing that those 15" MacBooks might not be appropriate for some elite professional photographers. And they don't want to do it because their products like MacBook Pro are targeted at mass market these days, not at the market of a few select professional elite picture takers.

Why should they allow two weird customers to screw up their multimillion marketing stuff? Of course it's much more cheap and effective to settle in private, than to proceed with long and noisy and unpleasant legal proces that's gonna cost MUCH more. It's always easier to explain stuff to yor customers politely with tests, comparisons with other modern Wintel notebooks and such. And then keep it private because they don't want to change anything in their OS or anywhere else.

Because changing is would be MUCH more expensive than settling with a couple of weirdos privately out of court. And they will do it the same way with all the other disgruntled photographers, so far their legal record only proves my words.
quote:
Would it be too much to ask you to admit that Apple might actually be wrong for once, because you just can't seem to accept it.
Would it be too much to ask you to prove that Apple actually installs 6-bit LCD panels in their MacBook Pro models these days, because you just can't seem to be able to prove it.

Again, prove not the fact that somebody SAID it is so, I know this already.


RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By spluurfg on 4/3/2008 6:00:40 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Would it be too much to ask you to prove that Apple actually installs 6-bit LCD panels in their MacBook Pro models these days, because you just can't seem to be able to prove it.


The fact that Apple settled with the plaintiffs supports this. It sure is a lot more proof than you have provided to the contrary. You're simply covering your ears crying 'prove it! prove it! prove that the Earth orbits the Sun because I sure can't see from there!'.

Please. It's becoming apparent that to you this is a game of how many people you can irritate.


RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By maven81 on 4/3/2008 6:16:49 PM , Rating: 2
I think that pretty much sums it up when it comes to Pirks.
It occured to me that this is exactly the kind of tactic BS artists have been using for millennia to give rational people a hard time.

So in their twisted world it's NASA's job to prove that they landed on the moon. It's the Air-force's job to prove that Roswell wasn't a cover up, the scientists job to prove that the earth goes around the sun (as in your example), Iraq's job to prove it didn't have weapons of mass destruction, and it just goes on... and on... and on...
Well I've got news for you BS artists, the burden of proof is on you...
Notice how quickly their arguments fall to pieces when you ask THEM to prove something.


RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By Pirks on 4/3/2008 8:36:10 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Notice how quickly their arguments fall to pieces when you ask THEM to prove something
What do you want me to prove? The fact that Apple not lied? I can't prove this and I'm not interested in proving it, 'cause your religious problems don't bother me, believe in anything that makes you sleep better.

If you can't prove me your point about Apple lying or something - very well, then we'll just end our discussion right here.


RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By Pirks on 4/3/2008 8:53:04 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
The fact that Apple settled with the plaintiffs supports this
Well, I don't know the settlement details and you don't know it either. You can speculate all you want, but until I see Apple in court arguing and presenting their proof and then LOSING their case and paying those gazillions to the poor deceived photographers of the world - until then I'm going to treat it as a pure specualtion, same as the Vista Capable case.

It's all just rumors, after all. You trust that rumor, I trust another rumor... let's end our discussion here, okay? There's nothing more to talk about.


RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By JoshuaBuss on 4/4/2008 1:37:32 PM , Rating: 2
a settlement from a lawsuit is not a rumor. it happened. accept it. move on. grow up.


RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By Pirks on 4/4/2008 3:35:25 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
a settlement from a lawsuit is not a rumor. it happened. accept it. move on. grow up.
A settlement that you have no knowledge about (no details on how they settled, who paid whom, etc) indeed happened, so you can continue spreading RUMORS, I don't care. I know that I don't know the settlement terms, and you don't know, and nobody else here on DT knows this, so keep chattering and babbling pretending that you KNOW something.

And by the way you should tell your other Windows loving buddies like jlips6 to stop lying and trying to compare 4 core Dell with 8 core Mac Pro, like in this post: http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=11305...

So it's them dumb liars who should grow up, not me. Eat this, fanboy :P


RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By VashHT on 4/2/2008 4:03:19 PM , Rating: 3
You realize I was just using the CPU as an example, but I really really doubt they have magic ram or hard drives either that can not possibly be had on the PC market. You really are stretching to bash PCs. I don't care if people use macs, they are great for people who's needs they fit, but I absolutely hate people like you who bash PCs to try to make Macs look better.


RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By Pirks on 4/2/08, Rating: -1
RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By jtemplin on 4/2/2008 5:07:10 PM , Rating: 3
A reasonable person would assume as per the article that the chevy vs lexus analogy relates to 6-bit vs 8-bit. Nobody said anything about mac vs pc, just the haters jumping to conclusions IMO.


RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By Pirks on 4/2/08, Rating: -1
RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By Oregonian2 on 4/2/2008 5:54:34 PM , Rating: 2
Yes, LCD displays for PC's can be 6-bit too. Things I've read suggest that being 6-bit makes them faster, so units with very fast mS ratings are most suspect in being 6-bit ones.


RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By jlips6 on 4/2/2008 8:11:23 PM , Rating: 2
totally unrelated in almost every way, but your comment about backlit keyboards made me think of this. Check it out and tell me that this is not awesome.
http://www.alienware.com/product_detail_pages/area...

it has customizable lights all over and a smart bay. Hella cool.


RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By Pirks on 4/2/08, Rating: -1
RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By StevoLincolnite on 4/2/2008 9:58:16 PM , Rating: 2
I've actually never seen a Macbook in real life, Plenty of Acer Notebooks though, they are gaining ground here in Australia, But never a Macbook, funny how you can keep saying "Everyone and Macbook" in the same line.

They are to Expensive, even for an "Entry Level" system, where an Acer Notebook would be significantly less (800 dollars, verses $1600)


RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By Pirks on 4/3/08, Rating: 0
RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By Darker Child on 4/3/2008 5:31:00 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
I've actually never seen a Macbook in real life, Plenty of Acer Notebooks though


You just dont read what he's saying do you? He doesnt need to see a macbook to say he's never seen one. I personally dont know anyone who owns a macbook. So i agree with him, your argument about the macbook being for the average consumer doesnt work. The average consumer want a Windows laptop, not because they're any better, but in my experience because most people just want as cheap a laptop as they can buy.


RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By Pirks on 4/3/08, Rating: -1
RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By Darker Child on 4/3/2008 5:53:02 AM , Rating: 2
True, I agree that window laptops certainly dont neccesarily win because their better (in fact if u buy a cheap vista laptop it will be slower than hell), but it's what most consumers know or have heard of. When I sold computers, a lot of people buying them were 30+ and had never used a pc or mac, so windows was their OS of choice. maybe ten, twenty years down the line when the next generation of kids are buying their computers and they know what they're doing, they'll choose macs. I am told by the people i know who own macs (not macbooks the big old fashioned ones :) ) that for graphical or sound work they are superior to windows.
But who knows, maybe in twenty years time we'll have a version of linux thats easy to use.


RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By Pirks on 4/3/2008 2:14:47 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
window laptops certainly don't neccesarily win because they're better, but it's what most consumers know or have heard of
Exactly, but times are changing fast, Apple opens its stores everywhere, its revenue grows very fast, stock price even faster, they capture US premium/upscale consumer electronics market faster than a fire in a stormy weather.

Today they have 21% of the US consumer market (http://apple20.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2008/04/01/an... ) tomorrow you'll see MS crying and asking for protection 'cause they just can't compete with Apple. Things change quick these days, man ;-)


RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By JoshuaBuss on 4/3/2008 11:14:36 AM , Rating: 2
your such a joke pirks. as if the HP business line and the IBM thinkpad line aren't "quality" computers. Ha.

i'd like YOU to spend a year actually using a nicely-configured thinkpad and come back here and tell us how 'poor quality' it is..

at least they have 8bit screens ;)


RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By Pirks on 4/3/2008 2:09:03 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
as if the HP business line and the IBM thinkpad line aren't "quality" computers.
Hey, but they are TWICE as expensive as Apple MacBooks!! Look ma, Wintel PC stuff IS MORE EXPENSIVE THAN APPLE'S! How can you live with that, Wintel lovers?

You were constantly bashing Apple because it's too expensive... and now you're making 180 degrees roundabout and start babbling about WAY EXPENSIVE $2000+ Thinkpads and premium stuff like that?

Hey, you are rotating faster than my CPU fan! Hehe, what a bunch of clowns :))))
quote:
at least they have 8bit screens
Care to prove that modern 15" widescreen Thinkpads have 8-bit LCD panels? You guys like to babble and chatter, but I've yet to see something substantial from you ;-)


RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By JoshuaBuss on 4/4/2008 2:02:05 PM , Rating: 2
what?

the R61 series starts right around $1,000..
http://www.costcentral.com/proddetail/Lenovo_Think...

and there are HP business notebooks with more power/features than a macbook available for $900..
http://www.costcentral.com/proddetail/HP_Compaq_Bu...

who's talking about $2000 machines?

i'm merely trying to show you some of the higher quality PC laptops. that's all. you seem to think all pc laptops are junk and that's simply not the case..


RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By Pirks on 4/4/2008 3:43:15 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
you seem to think all pc laptops are junk and that's simply not the case
And you zealots seem to think that Apple hardware is twice more expensive compared to same PC hardware and that's simply not the case.


RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By overzealot on 4/3/2008 6:20:58 AM , Rating: 2
I've played around with Macbooks. Used them quite a bit. I think he's still quite correct with his price comparisons though, considering entry level Macbooks are about twice as expensive as entry level consumer Acers in Australia. For around that price, you could buy an Acer commercial laptop (which all boast 8-bit screens).
OSX is nice. Quite a few people like it. It behaves well, requires less setup than Windows and the programs for OSX integrate much more nicely than most Windows apps. There's less of them, though. And less hardware flexibility than PC laptops (can be a bonus, but I prefer more options).
Still, you can't argue that Macbooks are niche market compared to entry level wintels.