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Apple found that 3 of its 102 parts and manufacturing partners used child labor to help build the company's best-selling iPods, iPhones, and Macs.  (Source: Apple)

The report's brutal honesty is sure to draw criticism of Apple, but it's important to remember that Apple is demanding its suppliers make changes and is one of the few in the industry not to cast a blind eye to human rights violations.  (Source: China Smack)
Company is seeking to correct abusive suppliers

Apple last week aired its annual evaluation of its supplier's compliance with its supplier standards program.  The program is designed to discourage practices like child labor and substandard living and working conditions among the company's suppliers worldwide.  The company employs independent investigative firms like Verité, to investigate it suppliers.

The new report found major violations at many suppliers, including the use of child labor.

The report describes, "Apple discovered three facilities that had previously hired 15-year-old workers in countries where the minimum age for employment is 16.  Across the three facilities, our auditors found records of 11 workers who had been hired prior to reaching the legal age, although the workers were no longer underage or no longer in active employment at the time of our audit.  One facility attempted to conceal evidence of historical cases of underage labor.  Two other facilities presented falsified records that concealed evidence of violations of Apple's Code regarding working hours and days of rest."

Many suspect that at least one of the plants belonged to Foxconn, one of Apple's biggest suppliers, who already is in a lot of trouble for the suspicious death of an employee who lost and iPhone prototype and for beating a foreign correspondent who was trying to do a news story on Apple. 

Many will be quick to attack Apple for its admission that child labor was found to be used to build the company's iPods, iPhones, and Macs at three of its 102 plants worldwide.  It's important to bear in mind, though, that most companies who contract suppliers in China or other developing nations merely turn a blind eye to rights violations.  Apple is one of the few who actually looks into its working conditions and as a result of its openness is perhaps unduly receiving negative public perception.

Aside from child labor, there were a wealth of other violations.  Apple says it "found records that indicated workers had exceeded weekly work-hour limits more than 50 percent of the time. Similarly, at 65 facilities, more than half of the records we reviewed indicated that workers had worked more than six consecutive days at least once per month."

At least one of the suppliers involved had been found guilty of violations in 2008 as well.  Apple reports that it has severed its relationship with the firm.  Writes Apple, "When Apple investigated further, we uncovered additional records and conducted worker interviews that revealed excessive working hours and seven days of continuous work. When confronted with this information, the facility provided Apple with accurate timecards. Based on the repeat core violation and inadequate actions, Apple is terminating all business with this facility."

Another common violation was underpaying workers.  Apple reports, "At 48 of the facilities audited, we found that overtime wages had been calculated improperly, resulting in underpayment of overtime wages.  At 24 facilities, our auditors found that workers had been paid less than minimum wage for regular working hours."

The audited plants were in China, Taiwan, Thailand, Malaysia, Singapore, South Korea, the Czech Republic, Philippines and the U.S., though Apple did not reveal exact locations or the name of the suppliers. 

The full report, Supplier Responsibility, is available here (PDF).

One can only hope that people view Apple's honest evaluation of its own supply chain's shortcomings in a positive light -- otherwise other firms will have little incentive to similarly monitor their own supply chains for abuse.


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I'm not defending Apple but...
By Shig on 3/3/2010 9:03:01 AM , Rating: 5
honestly who is nieve enough to think child labor still isn't being used excessively by countless mega corporations.




RE: I'm not defending Apple but...
By Shark Tek on 3/3/2010 9:04:32 AM , Rating: 2
Agree, this is nothing new.


RE: I'm not defending Apple but...
By IdBuRnS on 3/3/2010 9:17:00 AM , Rating: 5
No, but what is new is a company actually fessing up to it and (at least appearing) to do something about it.


RE: I'm not defending Apple but...
By HotFoot on 3/3/2010 9:24:24 AM , Rating: 5
Once in a while a company comes out and fesses up to the practice. I'm not inclined to think anything is going to change. Wasn't it back in the 1996, 14 years ago, that the whole child labor scandal happened surrounding Kathie Lee Gifford's brand?

The current system rewards companies that abuse children. Revelations and corrections from time to time aren't going to change that.


RE: I'm not defending Apple but...
By Shig on 3/3/2010 9:30:39 AM , Rating: 5
Rofl, the only reason they fess up to it is because THEY GOT CAUGHT IN THE ACT.

How nieve are you people.


RE: I'm not defending Apple but...
By Shig on 3/3/10, Rating: 0
RE: I'm not defending Apple but...
By Pirks on 3/3/10, Rating: -1
RE: I'm not defending Apple but...
By Kurz on 3/3/10, Rating: -1
RE: I'm not defending Apple but...
By Pirks on 3/3/10, Rating: -1
RE: I'm not defending Apple but...
By tastyratz on 3/3/10, Rating: 0
RE: I'm not defending Apple but...
By Pirks on 3/3/10, Rating: -1
RE: I'm not defending Apple but...
By Samus on 3/3/2010 12:53:02 PM , Rating: 1
Here in the US we use cheap child labor all the time. Often they are abused and loopholes in the law allow them to be payed below minimum wage, and in some cases, nothing at all.

They're called internships.


By Devil07 on 3/3/2010 1:48:46 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
They're called internships

Not exactly. There are laws that vary from state to state that are specifically setup for who can be in an internship and how long it can last. Sadly, most of these laws are hardly ever enforced and rarely followed. I worked at a fairly large recording facility in the Nashville area and due to our stature in the industry, we had to look-up and adhere to the laws governing internships, or we could have faced serious fines, lawsuits or any other list of bad things that could have happened. Meanwhile, all the little studios in town are running their interns unpaid for a year or more. Sad.


By afkrotch on 3/3/2010 10:24:56 PM , Rating: 3
In pretty much every single country, we use free child labor. It's called, having kids and making them work. How many parents in the world have told their kids to go mow the lawn and not pay them a single cent? Then they give the whole speech about "I provided you with a roof over your head and food."


By magneticfield on 3/4/2010 4:43:23 AM , Rating: 2
or this:

New York airport jets 'directed by child'

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8547875.stm


By FITCamaro on 3/4/2010 6:28:17 AM , Rating: 3
Most internships are for college students. And maybe you shouldn't go into a career field that has unpaid internships. I had three internships in college. All were paid.


RE: I'm not defending Apple but...
By Kurz on 3/3/10, Rating: -1
RE: I'm not defending Apple but...
By Pirks on 3/3/2010 11:04:06 PM , Rating: 1
haha kurzy boy don't like taste of your own PC medicine huh? eat it boy :P eat it all! :))


By whiskerwill on 3/4/2010 8:37:27 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
People who down rated me please look at the context.
I was responding to Pirk's Earlier comment.
Replying to Pirks is like the scene in the movie where the guy tells the hostages, "if you try to escape, we're going to shoot you AND the man next to you". You're gonna suffer just because you're near him...


By lecanard on 3/3/2010 12:46:09 PM , Rating: 3
I'm not one to go around correcting spelling, but since you are the second person to do it on this thread, it looks like the mistake is spreading, so I would just like remind everyone that the word is "naïve", or at least "naive" if your keyboard doesn't do accents.


By Virtual Conan on 3/3/2010 1:06:53 PM , Rating: 3
Exactly. Easier to ask for forgiveness than to ask for permission.


RE: I'm not defending Apple but...
By sigilscience on 3/3/2010 4:42:56 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Rofl, the only reason they fess up to it is because THEY GOT CAUGHT IN THE ACT.
Are you stupid? Apple published this report as a result of their own internal audit. The only ones who "caught them in the act" is Apple themselves.


By afkrotch on 3/3/2010 10:29:07 PM , Rating: 3
Apple only does this internal audit, because they were caught doing it previously. They had to make it look like they were attempting to stop the act.

This of course bit them in the ass, as it's still going on and this time. Their own audit proves it.


RE: I'm not defending Apple but...
By whiskerwill on 3/3/2010 10:19:28 AM , Rating: 3
What do you want them to "do about it"? The sad fact is that these 15 year olds would either be working 8 hours a day in a Foxconn factory, or working 12 hours a day in the rice fields, under much more brutal conditions.

The problem here isn't "American megacorporations", its the poor standard of living in many parts of Asia.


RE: I'm not defending Apple but...
By Aloonatic on 3/3/2010 10:34:57 AM , Rating: 4
Almost every industrailised country goes through this period at some stage. I'm pretty sure it will have happened in the USA. Sure did in Britain tho.

I'm not saying that it's right or anyhting of course, I'd love to live in a world where their generation went straiught from the fields to the laboratory. However, whilst their economy is growing, the cheap labour that these kids are capable of providing (whilst being in much safer conditions thatn our great great grand parents where when they worked in cotton mills or wherever) is laying the foundations for an ecconomy that will be able to provide education upto 16/18 for all, further education and so on.

It's pretty much impossible for an ecconomy to go from agricultural to tehcnological without as mass production/labour filled period inbetween to underpin the transition, especially in these globalised times, as these kids and their cheap labour gives their country a competative edge. Else we might as well make the stuff here and they wouldn't have a job at all, and would stay in the 1800s forever.

It doesn't make it right for them to be grossly exploited or abused of course, if that is going on, then that is very wrong.


RE: I'm not defending Apple but...
By whiskerwill on 3/3/2010 10:55:06 AM , Rating: 4
But of course the emotional appeal to "save the children!" will always win out against common sense.

I honestly think human IQs are dropping over time.


RE: I'm not defending Apple but...
By therealnickdanger on 3/3/2010 11:31:24 AM , Rating: 3
I think IQs are just as low as ever, but pandering emotional manipulation is at an all-time high. We're bombarded with emotional blitzes every day by politicians, sports figures, celebrity gossip, religions, advertisements, (news covers all these) etc. In reality, they are ALL distractions designed (intentionally designed) to destroy intelligent discourse, to divide, conquer, and sell you things and ideas... most of it you don't even know you're "buying".

I'm not one for conspiracy theories and such, but I found the overall message of the documentary "Fall Of The Republic" to be very enlightened.


By afkrotch on 3/3/2010 10:32:06 PM , Rating: 2
Hold on. I need to find out what Beyonce thinks of this post. BRB.


By FITCamaro on 3/4/2010 6:31:51 AM , Rating: 2
I don't think IQs are low. IQ is just a measure of potential. Kids today just aren't applying themselves.


By computergeek485 on 3/3/2010 8:45:56 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I honestly think human IQs are dropping over time.


I feel like its also true and the movie idiocracy does a great job illustrating that in the beginning


By afkrotch on 3/3/2010 10:31:00 PM , Rating: 2
It has happened in the US. Hence why they invented unions.


By drycrust3 on 3/3/2010 11:00:53 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
had previously hired 15-year-old workers in countries where the minimum age for employment is 16


I agree. As I read the article, those suppliers had done things that were illegal, not that they were doing things that were illegal. Isn't this like getting excited because a Ford bolt maker or a Starbucks coffee farm once broke the law?
In addition, we don't know if they were employed on an adult's wage or at a child's wage, what the hours of work were, how physically demanding the work was, and nor do we know what age they claimed to be when they were employed.
I realise this isn't a popular concept, but employing a 15 year old on an adult's wage to do a job that isn't excessively demanding isn't in itself wrong. Sure, it isn't desirable, nor was it legal in those countries, but that totally ignores social conditions. There are places in the world where there isn't any welfare.
I think it is great that Apple insists on employment standards from their suppliers, too many companies from "the West" go into third world countries and behave just as badly as the local companies do, I think Apple should be applauded for their stand, not berated.


RE: I'm not defending Apple but...
By MPE on 3/3/2010 9:31:51 AM , Rating: 2
Common practice does not make it legal or moral.


RE: I'm not defending Apple but...
By whiskerwill on 3/3/2010 11:01:47 AM , Rating: 3
Your emotionally slanted world view doesn't might it immoral either.

I began helping my father in his business at age 15. I don't seem to be too exploited or emotionally scarred because of it.

Today there are plenty of 14-15 year olds spending 40+ hours a week hard at work bent over their Xbox controllers. If some of them instead spent just a few of those hours in honest work, they'd be a lot better off, and I don't think the world would come to and end either.


RE: I'm not defending Apple but...
By smackababy on 3/3/2010 11:51:16 AM , Rating: 1
The problem with your analogy is you're comparing AMERICAN working conditions with those in a country known for violating human rights. You think forcing children (because you know they didn't apply for this job...) to work in horrible conditions making $0.20 a day is good for them?


RE: I'm not defending Apple but...
By callmeroy on 3/3/2010 12:12:00 PM , Rating: 1
Exactly.

The poster above is making an apples to oranges comparison. Saying 'well my friends and I worked for our parents at 14 what's the big deal'.....well first so have I...i started worked at 14, have been working one job or another ever since (I'm in my mid 30's today). There's a SIGNIFICANT difference however to working conditions in this country versus other countries.

If you honestly think the 30 hours you worked per week (or however many you claim....I tend to call BS btw at the notion of working 40 hours a week as a teenager in this country....its RARE very RARE you'll find a young teen working 40 hours a week in the USA - heck most of them barely hold jobs that are 20 hours a week) as a young teen in this country is the same level of harshness as in some of these Asian and 3rd world nations....then WOW you are pretty naive...


RE: I'm not defending Apple but...
By whiskerwill on 3/3/2010 12:43:35 PM , Rating: 5
The point you're missing is that there is a significant difference in LIVING conditions between the two countries.

Try being 15 in rural China, living in a hand-built hut with no running water, an outside toilet, 3 old t-shirts and one pair of patched pants for clothes, one 1979 model TV shared by everyone in your entire village, both your parents working 75 hours a week in the rice paddies, and the same future staring you in the face.

Then a job in a nice clean factory starts to look pretty good. When you find out you're out of the hot sun, don't have to do any backbreaking labor like mom and dad, AND you get paid four times as much, it starts to look great.


By porkpie on 3/3/2010 12:57:44 PM , Rating: 5
Having lived in Asia, I always laugh at these starry-eyed idealists who believe they're somehow releasing these kids from bondage. They seem to think that once these kids lose their assembly line jobs, they'll spend their time frolicking through fields or sitting in a classroom with clean clothes and fresh-scrubbed faces.

The sad fact is that nearly all these affected teens are going to wind up either homeless, or doing something much more dangerous and illegal working on the streets in Shanghai.


By porkpie on 3/3/2010 1:03:26 PM , Rating: 2
What's even more amusing is the photo used for the article...showing a child doing hard manual labor in the rice fields.

In other words, exactly what they'd be doing if it wasn't for their much easier and better paid job assembling iPhones.


RE: I'm not defending Apple but...
By whiskerwill on 3/3/2010 12:19:59 PM , Rating: 2
Talk about proving my point about emotional responses.

First of all, these kids weren't forced to work by this company. Even insinuating that is just stupid. In some cases, their parents might (and I emphasize "might" here) have forced their kids to work, but most of them probably just wanted a job. Try being 15 in China with your parents living in a hut, no money to buy you decent clothes and send you to school, much less a car, a computer, or a cell phone.. A job at Foxconn looks pretty damn good under those conditions.

Secondly, they weren't making "20 cents a day". They were making the standard wage, which is a hell of a lot better than they'd make working in some rice paddy somewhere (which is what they'd be doing otherwise).

Thirdly, the "horrible conditions" is another piece of stupidity. They were working on an electronics assembly line, in clean sanitary well-lit conditions, doing nothing strenous at all. Conditions probably ten times better than what they have at home.

You want to speak out against child labor fine. But try to be honest about it.


RE: I'm not defending Apple but...
By ClownPuncher on 3/3/2010 12:51:30 PM , Rating: 2
At age 15, I don't see the big deal. Now, if some of the kids were younger, I could definitely see the problem with that. Though if these kids were being paid less than the minimum wage for their area, it does seem like exploitation. If the kids were under the legal working age, there should be fines, but I have no moral outrage concerning 15 year olds having jobs.

I started work here in the USA at 14, now admittedly my working conditions were likely better than you find in many parts of China. I wasn't ever forced to work, it wasn't to supplement my families income either.


By porkpie on 3/3/2010 1:22:46 PM , Rating: 3
Our most famous President, Abraham Lincoln, began hard labor helping to clear fields starting at age 7. By age 10, he was spending most of every day doing it. He only managed 18 months of formal schooling his entire life.

Admittedly that was the 19th century. But most of China is still in 19th century living conditions...and jobs like Foxconn is offering are the only way they'll ever get out of it.


RE: I'm not defending Apple but...
By rdhood on 3/3/2010 2:38:03 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Secondly, they weren't making "20 cents a day". They were making the standard wage, which is a hell of a lot better than they'd make working in some rice paddy somewhere (which is what they'd be doing otherwise).


Exactly. We live in an imperfect world. If the choice is making iPods, starving, or child prostitution, I'd think making iPods would be preferable. To the billions of people in poverty, these are (iPod) jobs sent from heaven.

I am not justifying it... I am simply looking at the realities of 7 billion people on the planet. We can't know where and how every part of every product that we purchase is made. We can't purchase a car, a toy, an electronics item, or even dog food and know that no child labor or sweat shops were involved.

This is what we CAN know: If the entire world stopped buying all products made with child labor, many of those children would starve to death or would otherwise be much worse off.


By afkrotch on 3/3/2010 10:43:16 PM , Rating: 2
Maybe Apple and some other companies need to setup shop in the Phillipines. Where a large number of your 15 year old girls decide to take up prostitution to make money.


By forgotmypassword on 3/3/2010 1:12:07 PM , Rating: 3
I'm pretty sure they did apply for the job and as others said already working at Foxconn is much better than rice fields. Please don't mix African 12 year old soldiers and Chinese electronics factories.


By afkrotch on 3/3/2010 10:38:52 PM , Rating: 2
Tell me after you've run around a field with a 5 gallon tank of propane on your back, a flame thrower on the hose, and it's 90 degrees outside and you're burning weeds. All for $0.00 cents a day.

Sorry, but a lot of kids in the states work on their parent's farms in bad conditions. Sometimes probably worse than these kids in other countries, most times not though.

My dad's from Laos and he raised me like he was there. Child abuse laws be damned. And you know what? I personally think I'm a better person for it.

I always laugh when ppl go crazy over something like that American who got caned for graffiti in Indonesia or wherever it was. I've had worse.


By forgotmypassword on 3/3/2010 1:12:38 PM , Rating: 2
It's illegal but not immoral.


RE: I'm not defending Apple but...
By 2bdetermine on 3/3/2010 1:19:12 PM , Rating: 3
Overprice products and billions cash stockpile. Get the picture!


By Aloonatic on 3/4/2010 4:56:54 AM , Rating: 2
Over priced? Then don't buy them and they will go out of business. It's not rocket science.

If they set a price and people buy at said price still, so that Apple have "billions [in] cash stockpile[d]" then guess what, they are priced pretty damn well. Get the picture!?


RE: I'm not defending Apple but...
By FaceMaster on 3/3/2010 6:26:50 PM , Rating: 2
You may not want to admit to defending Apple, but I will. Apple did the right thing to admit this and I don't see how this can be twisted in negative light. Sure, what they're doing isn't right (or is it? DISCUSS!) but they've come out in the open.

I don't like using a Mac. I find them overpriced and annoying. But when I see people attacking anything with out good reason I can't help but defend it. So here it goes-

Well done, Apple.


By porkpie on 3/3/2010 6:35:28 PM , Rating: 2
"I don't see how this can be twisted in negative light."

Facemaster, meet Jason.


RE: I'm not defending Apple but...
By vignyan on 3/4/2010 1:27:16 AM , Rating: 2
If someone pleads guilty, it doesn't make them innocent!


By Aloonatic on 3/4/2010 5:07:18 AM , Rating: 2
No, it doesn't, but I think we all suspect that there isn't a large company that isn't affected by this either. You can bet that the suppliers in question don't just make products for Apple. So Apple looking into it themselves and coming clean, is something that should be recognised as a good thing, surely?

AT any rate, innocent/guilty? That's not really what we are talking about too after all. Why do people hurry to such black and white judgements?


And they still cost so much???
By fstarnella on 3/3/2010 10:07:09 AM , Rating: 2
I thought using child labor was supposed to keep the cost of items down yet Apple junk still costs an arm and a leg.




RE: And they still cost so much???
By piroroadkill on 3/3/2010 10:08:17 AM , Rating: 2
That's the most amusing part: There's absolutely nothing premium about apple products from start to finish, yet you pay a massive premium for them


RE: And they still cost so much???
By porkpie on 3/3/2010 1:07:43 PM , Rating: 2
"There's absolutely nothing premium about apple products from start to finish"

Come on now. I like to punch Apple as much as the next guy, but lets be honest here. Their internals are no better (and very often inferior), but their externals are top notch. Fit and finish, the appearance and quality of plastics and other materials used for cases are among the best in the industry.

Those of us with a little more intelligence don't want to pay $1500 for a $400 computer with a pretty case, but lets at least debate the case on its merits.


RE: And they still cost so much???
RE: And they still cost so much???
By afkrotch on 3/3/2010 10:46:20 PM , Rating: 2
Didn't their old Macbooks or something have peeling paint or would turn yellow too from the oils on your hands?


RE: And they still cost so much???
By Pirks on 3/4/2010 10:33:40 AM , Rating: 2
is this related?


By crystal clear on 3/3/2010 10:43:58 AM , Rating: 2
Wrong ! rather to increase the profits of the contract supplier & NOT of Apple.

The Apple junk like junk food sells very well...


Yellow screen
By Desslok on 3/3/2010 9:25:24 AM , Rating: 5
Maybe the yellow screens were the kids cry for help.:)




RE: Yellow screen
By Aloonatic on 3/3/2010 10:15:44 AM , Rating: 2
At least they wont be able to access any adult material when testing them.


RE: Yellow screen
By Mitch101 on 3/3/2010 11:58:14 AM , Rating: 4
Its probably because they dont allow bathroom breaks.


Likely scenario
By camylarde on 3/3/2010 9:59:05 AM , Rating: 2
The company that was ceased to contract with, will either - shred some jobs or get contract elsewhere. In no case will the conditions change for the workers there.

Of course, Aplle has no leverage against these practices and it is only commendable to change supplier, but what difference in the world is this gonna make?

poor will remain poor.




RE: Likely scenario
By HotFoot on 3/3/2010 10:12:32 AM , Rating: 2
The working-their-ass-off-poor will remain poor, and that's the sad part. Working well north of 40 hours per week ought to get you somewhere.


RE: Likely scenario
By Hieyeck on 3/3/2010 10:56:32 AM , Rating: 2
What they really need are Canadian union leaders. That'll get their hours down to sitting on their thumbs for 20 hours a week working a replaceable, roboticizable (is that a word?) job while getting paid $100,000!

http://www.citytv.com/toronto/citynews/news/local/...
http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/toronto/a...
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/toronto/story/2010/01/22/...


RE: Likely scenario
By Yawgm0th on 3/3/2010 12:25:07 PM , Rating: 2
Something tells me attempting to form a labor union for this type of work in mainland China isn't going to go over well with the National People's Congress.

If manufacturing jobs were unionized and wages saw large, rapid increases, China's economy could tank overnight. There's a reason they intentionally devalue their own currency. It's not just the PRC. Malaysia, Thailand, even Singapore... The vast majority of the worlds CE manufacturing is done in this region for a reason.


RE: Likely scenario
By Hieyeck on 3/5/2010 12:10:23 PM , Rating: 1
You mean even COMMUNIST countries think UNIONS are a plague upon society?! *SHOCK*

I'm all for people earning a fair wage, the key being EARNING. If the company provides terrible compensation (wages, benefits, resume reputation, etc.), then FIND ANOTHER JOB.


15 yo is illegal?
By tlbj6142 on 3/3/2010 9:29:32 AM , Rating: 2
In the US you can start working at 14 yo. Maybe it is the type of work that requires 16 yo?




RE: 15 yo is illegal?
By Yawgm0th on 3/3/2010 10:02:28 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
In the US you can start working at 14 yo.
Not 40 - 70 hours a week on an assembly line. There are heavy restrictions on adolescents under 16 and strong ones on adolescents under 18. I'm under the impression that the jobs in question couldn't be done by a 17-year-old.


RE: 15 yo is illegal?
By nafhan on 3/3/2010 10:07:48 AM , Rating: 2
From: http://www.stopchildlabor.org/USchildlabor/fact1.h... (Below is for the US):
quote:
The minimum age for particularly hazardous work in agriculture is age 16, whereas the particularly hazardous work in all other sectors of the economy is age 18.
For agriculture, the minimum age for non-hazardous work is 14. Everything else is 16, with exceptions for retail, etc. as long as hours worked are outside of normal school hours. I worked as a lifeguard when I was 15...


RE: 15 yo is illegal?
By MadMan007 on 3/3/2010 8:55:22 PM , Rating: 2
Werd to your minor.


Child Labour
By iday on 3/3/2010 9:31:55 AM , Rating: 2
Child labour? here in australia the leagal working age is 14 and a half and I have friends who regularly work 7 days in a row.




RE: Child Labour
By danobrega on 3/3/10, Rating: 0
RE: Child Labour
By Kurz on 3/3/2010 10:31:00 AM , Rating: 3
Sometimes your family needs money.
Its for survivial.

Though at least people who work at a young age appreciate what work is and for most part can give direction to people along the career path they want.


RE: Child Labour
By nafhan on 3/3/2010 10:48:37 AM , Rating: 2
I'll chalk it up to a failings of the educational and social systems and/or his parents. The 14 year old mentioned by the parent post has decided to leave the educational system, I doubt it was because he was looking forward to working long hours and seven day weeks for the rest of his life. Really, he might be in worse shape if he wasn't allowed to work.


RE: Child Labour
By FaceMaster on 3/3/2010 6:21:53 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
Child labour? here in australia the leagal working age is 14 and a half and I have friends who regularly work 7 days in a row.


When I was a lad, we lived for three months in a brown paper bag in a septic tank. We used to have to get up at six o'clock in the morning, clean the bag, eat a crust of stale bread, go to work down mill for fourteen hours a day week in-week out. When we got home, out Dad would thrash us to sleep with his belt!


By Virtual Conan on 3/3/2010 11:27:45 AM , Rating: 5
But that would reduce their ridiculous profit margins and we can't have that. Back to work, kiddo!

You notice, Apple is asking for forgiveness, it's easier than asking permission.




Quit making excuses
By nct on 3/3/2010 2:14:53 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
It's important to bear in mind, though, that most companies who contract suppliers in China or other developing nations merely turn a blind eye to rights violations.


I stopped expecting objective articles about tech-related subjects a long time ago at this site; but seriously, do you have evidence for anything in this paragraph? It reads like it came straight from Apple's PR department.

My company owns and operates a facility in China that provides excellent working conditions for the employees, and we regularly audit the plant to ensure it stays that way. We also audit supplier plants and hold them to the same standards. There is still a huge advantage in labor costs versus the US. Any responsibly-run company will recognize that the marginal reduction in costs by condoning questionable labor practices is not worth the risk to the company's image.

Defending Apple by saying everyone else is doing it is a ridiculous cop out, and has no place in an article not posted in the blog section.




RE: Quit making excuses
By The0ne on 3/8/2010 10:06:12 AM , Rating: 2
As he always does, Jason inserts his moronic opinions into what he calls news reporting. It's the lack of experience and the belief in what he can find on the internet that most likely urges him to say such things.

And yes, it sounds exactly like an excuse to defend Apple lmao. He's trying hard to be like Fox and Friends, or whatever the hell it's called.


15 is child labor?
By masamasa on 3/3/2010 12:57:30 PM , Rating: 2
Jeez...I had a paper route when I was 11 and a job when I was 14. I feel so abused!!




RE: 15 is child labor?
By The0ne on 3/8/2010 10:13:19 AM , Rating: 2
You seem to be 11 still for sheer lack of understanding the concept of child labor in such countries as China. Please educated yourself and stop being a fool around here. Thank you.

But since I know you're lazy, I'll give you an prime example so your brain can start turning its wheels.

Imagine you are 11 doing a paper route. Imagine, you can't take any breaks. Imagine you're not getting pay what you are suppose to. Imagine you NEED the money to feed yourself and/or your family. Imagine being harassed for not peddling your bike faster :) Imagine your rich parents being poor as fck and needing those pennies you earn.

Now, keep that thought and now imagine doing it for over 40 hours a week. Too pretty for you? Imagine peddling your God-forsaken bicycle for 80 hours. Get the picture yet?


Cool your jets guys
By postalbob on 3/3/2010 4:33:28 PM , Rating: 1
Correct me if I'm wrong:

This article stated that Apple has a system in which they check in on their manufacturers to ensure there is no child labor.

Apple's own system found that there was child labor. They weren't busted. You can't bust yourself.

My father's engineering company as an example, (as most engineering product companies do), uses manufacturers from other countries. It has nothing to do with selecting "child labor". Those manufacturing companies are seldom or rather never required to report their employee age/race/ethnicity.

Apple is not the enemy in this, in fact they performed admirably by having a system in place to check into it. This shows action, not lack thereof, in comparison to most companies which show none. I'm all for mocking the big bad corporations as much as the next guy, but at least have merit when you do rather than mouth off like a drone. Most of the time corporations help people.

Also: In most these countries allowing the kid to make money benefits them. This isn't slave labor.

It boggles my mind that no matter what the post on DT a horde of people mouth off about the woes of mankind and life. Half of you making comments about child labor in this case, if you were working a family farm before industrialization would have filed for abuse, and it's rather pathetic. Those types get "paid" nothing. Just food in their belly and a roof over their head. *rolls eyes* I guess we better get a time machine and tell them they were being "abused".

Had to comment on this one...




RE: Cool your jets guys
By RyanHirst on 3/4/2010 1:54:54 PM , Rating: 2
I agree, overall. I'll go a step farther, at the risk of going on at length. It doesn't bother me that people are upset, heated about the woes of mankind. What I find unconscionable are the fallacious and, ultimately, useless arguments.
Statements like, "I can't believe you're so naive as to think big companies don't do this all the time", and cynical prophesies have, literally, nothing to do with big companies, or the person accused of naivete. Belief in justice is not naive; it is a way in which we address the state of injustice. Believing that injustice can be fought requires identifying it, fighting against it, a knowledge of the systems for redress, and fighting for that redress. A cynical aside about naivete requires none of these things. If the first poster really believes that child labor is wrong, and that big corporations violate human rights all the time, and that it's so difficult to fight that, without informing ourselves of the means, we don't see how it's possible... then the only moral choice is to inform him/herself of the means and advocate them. Calling others naive and walking away is the naive position. And saying it can't be fought is a false generalization. He's saying HE won't fight it. That's a choice. That choice does not generalize to others. Child labor has been fought in the past, WITHOUT the example of its absence. It can be fought now.

Apple has made a crucial choice. I believe that if the cynical posters knew anything about doing business in China, they would read Apple's actions as an extremely well-informed and workable strategy against illegal business practice, tailored to the exact quandry that China presents to the foreign employer. Let me explain.

Let's say you're an American company and you've already built a factory in China. China prints a staggering percent of books for US sale, so let's say you own a small factory with a modern printing press.
The appeal of China is this: what you want done, gets done. Let's say your first print run finishes, and you realize at the last minute some pages are out of order. If you ask the manager if there's any way to reprint the whole run with the new chapter you just sent via .pdf, all within the planned budget, and within 48 hours, do you know what the manager will say?

Yes.

This is the beauty of doing business in China. Everything is possible. You need only ask.

Now, if you're paying 50% higher wages than the prevailing wage in your market sector, guaranteeing overtime, guaranteeing payment of wages (as opposed to wages-as-housing and other semi-legitimate "payment" schemes), and you have a long list of company policies governing acceptable practices for scheduling, payment, work conditions, acquisition of materials, cost of goods, etc.... if you do these things, and you are not VERY careful, you will BELIEVE that these policies are being followed.
If you ask, the answer will be yes. Contractors will go out of their way to let you believe that you are running the perfect business. You make a request, and it's done. The technical expertise materializes on the spot, dedicated professionals bend to the task, work long hours and get paid for them... participate in the financial payoff. Exactly how you feel about your coding nerd friends talking about putting 60-80 hour weeks in before a product launch they were excited about... that's the environment you can believe your American Dollars are buying in China.

And, hey, maybe they are. The crux is, if you ask, the answer is yes. Was the last-minute ink supplier legit? yes. Did the workers get paid overtime? yes. Were the schedules acceptable? yes. we are still on budget? yes.

wow.

And here is, again, the devastating beauty of business in China. A moral person MUST be devastated. The chances that it is all true are slim. If you ask, someone has to lie to you, so best not to ask. You won't know either way how the project got done, so the least you can do is not make the contractor fabricate records. Right?

Wrong.

Finding a way out isn't easy. And this is why what Apple is doing is exceptional. It's not that they're instituting oversight, it's the manner. The structure of their oversight, and its use in the press, is tailored to this dilemma. It reflects a desire not only to protect themselves, but to determine the REAL cost of legitimate operation in China, and to advertise their contracting dollars to those willing to meet it.

What does this mean if you're a contractor in China? Apple has just terminated some contracts. Those contracts are now open. They were terminated, not because COST was too high, not because e.g. overtime hours were used (and therefore either costing Apple more money, or embarassing them when a third party found out)... but because they weren't PAID. Whatever their oversight procedure, it's good enough that current employees will tell the truth (this is huge). In the event of a disagreement or scandal, rather than leverage the contractor, Apple will voluntarily disparage their own name, and protect the contractor (this is also huge).
Conclusion: Apple is making a legitimate bid for legitimate labor and materials, and wants to know the actual cost.

Oh, yeah, and they're an international icon sitting on $40 billion in cash.

If you're a contractor in China and you haven't figured out that to bid for an Apple you HAVE to buy everything legitimately, pay everyone their hours, and that Apple is prepared to PAY the higher cost of the bid to guarantee those things, you're an idiot. And, in case we forgot since last paragraph, Apple is sitting on $40 billion in cash. You want that contract.

I'm sorry to poke at the cynical bubble, but it is moves like this that can directly impact labor and business practices. Even if you don't believe it will affect anyone but Apple and its contractors, if you responded dismissively to this headline, I beg you to think carefully about what, exactly, you want done about shifty corporate ethics and world labor practices. I would certainly be embarrassed if I was too busy sneering at someone to see that they were angry about the same things, and doing something about it.

My thanks to anyone crazy enough to read all of that. Rant over.


Choosing between two evils
By crystal clear on 3/3/2010 11:11:26 AM , Rating: 2
On one side child labour is rather unfortunate but on the other side its preferred than having children turning to crime,prostitution,drug addiction etc which ruins their life even before they start living it.

Yes I prefer to see them in schools & having a normal childhood, but in countries spread across the globe where poverty is rampant,the preferred solution is to make them economically productive rather than they turn to begging,stealing,drug trafficing,child prostitution etc.

Choosing between two evils....




Child Labor "Credits?"
By DaveLessnau on 3/3/2010 11:22:14 AM , Rating: 2
Well, Al Gore is on the Apple Board of Directors:

http://www.apple.com/pr/bios/bod.html

Maybe he invented some Child Labor credits for them?




Family Guy
By SlyNine on 3/3/2010 12:49:42 PM , Rating: 2
I can't wait for the Family Guy Cutback scenes.

Oh and of course, Will somebody think of the children.




Zune manuafactoring
By hiscross on 3/3/2010 3:22:12 PM , Rating: 2
I quess those kids have to look to build Zunes. I can't imagin there's many job openings.




Child Labor Air Traffic Control
By hiscross on 3/3/2010 4:16:43 PM , Rating: 2
Ridiculous
By SmCaudata on 3/3/2010 10:31:26 PM , Rating: 2
For the amount that Apple overcharges for their products they should be using above average wages for American workers. Apple is by far the most despicible company out there IMO.




Connection
By darkfoon on 3/3/2010 11:03:41 PM , Rating: 2
C'mon now, Apple is just allowing teenagers all over the world to connect in new ways.

"Timmy, your iPhone was made by a little boy or girl your age far, far away!"
>"Wow, Dad! I wanna build iPhones too!"
"Not until you're older"
Both: "Hahaha!"




Jobless
By really on 3/5/2010 1:12:14 PM , Rating: 2
I'll be the devil's advocate here.
So what happens to all of these people not that Apple is not using the firm anymore? Is the plant where the work is done still open but new management. It sounds like alot of people potentially out of jobs. Where else are they going to find work. It sounds great in practice but it seems that Apple stopping work with the firm will end in more misery for all these people who are/were employed.

???




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