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Print 44 comment(s) - last by TomZ.. on Feb 6 at 11:41 AM
Upgrading to Microsoft's latest OS may cause issues for Apple iTunes users

Apple is recommending that iTunes users wait before upgrading their PCs to Windows Vista, the latest operating system from Microsoft.  While iTunes can work on Vista computers, Apple knows of some compatibility issues that need to be resolved, and will release an updated version of iTunes "in the next few weeks."      

Known issues include iTunes Music Store-purchased songs and videos not playing and contacts and calendar entries not syncing properly to iPods.  The most troublesome issue is that iPod users may corrupt their iPod when ejecting it from a desktop port by using the "Safely Remove Hardware" feature on the Windows tray. 

Microsoft spokesman, however, said that possible iTunes compatibility issues should not stop consumers from switching over to Vista.  Microsoft reportedly has a team working with Apple solely to get iTunes working properly on Vista.

Microsoft and Apple are partners working together -- for example, Windows version of iTunes and Microsoft Office available for Macs -- but the two companies are also heated rivals.  In fact, they have been nipping at one another the past several days, after Bill Gates criticized Mac ads that have been showing on TV.

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Beta Period?
By TomZ on 2/4/2007 10:35:05 PM , Rating: 5
Apparently Apple was asleep during the 2-3 year beta period for Vista. Maybe they also missed the fact that Vista was released (RTM) and available since November of last year. Pretty lame if you ask me.




RE: Beta Period?
By kelmon on 2/5/07, Rating: 0
RE: Beta Period?
By TomZ on 2/5/2007 7:07:28 AM , Rating: 5
quote:
stupid OS has only been officially available for a couple of weeks

Yes, but as I said, it has been available to software developers (and the general public) in beta form for years, and in final form for over two months. Any company with a widely-used commercial app like iTunes had plenty of opportunity to update their software to be compatible with Vista, if they had wanted to.
quote:
Apple has got better things to do for the moment than change their development schedule for Microsoft's

They're not doing anything for Microsoft - it's only about their iTunes customers. Obviously you're willing to cut them some slack since you are probabaly not running Vista, but what about customers that are running Vista? Don't they have a reasonable expectation of being able to access their iTunes content? Apple hasn't even provided a date AFAIK when they will release a compatible update.


RE: Beta Period?
By Hare on 2/5/07, Rating: 0
RE: Beta Period?
By Hare on 2/5/2007 8:09:18 AM , Rating: 3
I'll just add couple of examples.

Ati: TV-out doesn't work properly. OpenGL is horrible.
nVidia: Facing possible lawsuit over Vista drivers (see tgdaily.com)
Ms Zune: Didn't work a few weeks ago, now? Don't know.
Ms Visual studio: Old ones broken, support unknown
and the list goes on and on...

This is headlines just because Apple is a direct competitor to MS.


RE: Beta Period?
By kelmon on 2/5/2007 8:49:58 AM , Rating: 2
The one I looked for specifically because I had issues with it when Apple released 10.4 was Cisco's VPN Client which I depend on. Shockingly Vista is not listed as a supported OS for the Windows client at this time and I'm not in the slightest bit surprised. I don't want to make excuses for Apple on this one but just focusing on them is taking the piss a bit.

Basically, this is a major OS update and this happens every time. Not exactly anything new and I seriously doubt that this will be the last time that this happens.


RE: Beta Period?
By rykerabel on 2/5/2007 11:32:41 AM , Rating: 2
it doesn't work with my winXP64 either. thats cisco for you though.


RE: Beta Period?
By novacthall on 2/5/2007 11:37:17 AM , Rating: 2
The key difference being that none of those companies are threatening people to keep them from migrating to Vista.

Apple had the time, they should have identified the problem and solved it. All petty squabbles with Microsoft aside, they needed to do that for their customers. To that end, they have failed.


RE: Beta Period?
By Hare on 2/5/2007 12:30:45 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
The key difference being that none of those companies are threatening people to keep them from migrating to Vista.
And Apple does this? That's absolutely ridiculous...

It didn't take long before these conspiracy theories sneaked in the discussion. I quessed this the minute I saw the first couple of posts...


RE: Beta Period?
By TomZ on 2/5/2007 1:01:21 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
And Apple does this? That's absolutely ridiculous...

Yes, that is exactly what Apple is doing. Here's a quote from the linked InformationWeek article:

Apple, in a statement posted Thursday on its Web support forum, says upgrading from Windows 2000 or Windows XP to Vista may result in the inability to play songs purchased and downloaded to the desktop iTunes player from its online iTunes store.
http://www.informationweek.com/news/showArticle.jh...

To paraphrase, if you are running iTunes and you upgrade to Vista, bad things will happen to your content and/or iPod. Sounds like a stern warning to me.


RE: Beta Period?
By Hare on 2/5/2007 1:24:29 PM , Rating: 1
Ok. If Apple is doing this we might as well include, Microsoft itself, Creative, Ati, nVidia and n+1 others...


RE: Beta Period?
By TomZ on 2/5/2007 1:33:25 PM , Rating: 3
I don't recall any of these customers recommending to their customers that they don't upgrade to Vista.


RE: Beta Period?
By TomZ on 2/5/2007 1:36:03 PM , Rating: 1
Sorry, I meant, "I don't recall any of these companies recommending to their customers that they don't upgrade to Vista."


RE: Beta Period?
By Hare on 2/6/2007 6:16:15 AM , Rating: 3
Are you serious? That was a " threat "! A horse's head in a bed is nothing compared to this! </sarcasm>

Apple is being "honest" and vocal. iTunes doesn't work and you may have problems. Wait a few weeks and these will be sorted out.

And this makes people angry? Would it be better if Apple behaved like Ms itself, nVidia, Creative or m-audio? Keep smiling and tell that things are just peachy when the actual situation is dramatically different?


RE: Beta Period?
By TomZ on 2/6/2007 9:20:00 AM , Rating: 2
You're right, I wouldn't call it a threat; it's more like FUD. I don't know if anybody's "angry" about it. The point is that Apple's statement is obviously very self-serving. That's why it was a news item on DT in the first place.

If Apple released a new OS version that had issues with iTunes, you can be sure they would never recommend that customers don't upgrade their OS - they would promptly fix the problem. This is what Apple should do in the case of Vista - fix their software - and avoid indulging in the FUD.

I'm going to anticipate your next post - you're going to challenge why I call Apple's statement FUD. It's because effectively Apple is saying that if you upgrade to Vista, you may not be able to access your iTunes account, listen to the content you paid for, and your iPod may become corrupted. The implication is of course that the reason for this is because you upgraded to Vista, i.e., if you don't upgrade to Vista you won't experience these problems. The reality is probably that it will work just fine after the upgrade.


RE: Beta Period?
By Hare on 2/6/2007 11:05:41 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
The point is that Apple's statement is obviously very self-serving.
What exactly would Apple benefit from this? Get angry customers, increased support calls, bad publicity? I don't think anyone is naive enough to even hint that Apple might use this as a way to prevent people from using Vista (for two weeks)?
quote:
This is what Apple should do in the case of Vista - fix their software - and avoid indulging in the FUD.

I agree 100%, they should indeed fix their software and that's exactly what they are doing. Calling this FUD is just stupid. These problems are facts and Apple is telling people that they might have problems with Vista (unlike nVidia which is being sued for false promises). Do you realise that this "statement" was given by someone at Apple's support forum ? This is not a public statement right at Apple's homepage or anything even remotely like that.

"Apple, in a statement posted Thursday on its Web support forum, says upgrading from Windows 2000 or Windows XP to Vista may result in the inability to play songs purchased and downloaded to the desktop iTunes player from its online iTunes store. [...]"

Yeah. That's a threat or at least FUD. Wake up and smell the coffee or at least take of those MS glasses. They defintely distort reality.

Do you think that Apple is the only company saying that people might have problems with Vista? Honestly? So why exactly is Apple different than Ati, nVidia, Creative, M-audio? Must be your glasses...


RE: Beta Period?
By TomZ on 2/6/2007 11:41:05 AM , Rating: 2
Asked and answered already. See my post a few up. I don't see the point of debating the same thing over and over.


RE: Beta Period?
By Samus on 2/6/2007 4:58:17 AM , Rating: 2
My TV Tuner blue-screens Vista. Even with the Vista driver.

All my games run like crap. Except BF2142 ;)


RE: Beta Period?
By TomZ on 2/5/2007 8:19:31 AM , Rating: 3
You're reading a lot more into my comments than I actually said. All I said is that the opportunity was there for them to fix issues prior to customers experiencing the problems they did, and that it would probably frustrate some users to encounter such problems.

But now that you mention it, Apple did actually recommend that their customers don't upgrade to Vista if they are using iTunes. That's kind of a funny statement, isn't it? :o)


RE: Beta Period?
By slacker57 on 2/5/2007 12:13:46 PM , Rating: 4
"Evil plot"? "Conspiracy"?

Man, I just love when words magically appear out of nowhere. I didn't see these words anywhere in the original story or any of the posts you're responding to. Do I need to get my glasses checked or do you?

Just to note, I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with any of the content of the discussion, I just find it infinitely amusing how these blown-out-of-proportion words sneak into so many forum discussions. Could be quite a pyschological experiment to see what phrases trigger people's conspiracy theory-dar.

Oh, and btw, Kennedy is still alive and Bigfoot lives in my basement.


RE: Beta Period?
By LtFarva on 2/5/2007 7:19:03 AM , Rating: 2
I'm not saying Vista is the grestest, I've never used it. But from my experience, iTunes on XP has always been lacking in the quality department. Nothing serious, but every update I've done has always done something wacky to my library or my ipod, from erasing my ipod when I updated so it took 45 minutes to put all the music back, switching all the cover art on the songs on my ipod, or having my ipod skip a random number of songs on shuffle. Weirdness.


RE: Beta Period?
By h0kiez on 2/5/2007 8:19:36 AM , Rating: 2
Ignorantly calling something "Apple-Bashing" (or Sony bashing for that matter) is just as dumb as actually bashing them. People bash certain companies and not others for a reason, and your lame argument that The stupid OS has only been officially available for a couple of weeks seems to imply that Apple couldn't have possibly gotten their hands on a copy of it before January 30th. I'm gonna guess that's incorrect.


RE: Beta Period?
By Perium on 2/5/2007 9:16:26 AM , Rating: 2
I don't understand why you got rated down so quickly. I fully agree with your post.


RE: Beta Period?
By Hare on 2/5/2007 10:28:28 AM , Rating: 2
I do... It's because here at Dailytech Apple and Sony are constantly bashed in the comments section. Just learn to live with it...

Soon my message above will also be rated down. I don't even think there are any real reasons why. People just casually check out a few comments and vote down pro-Apple or pro-Sony comments.


RE: Beta Period?
By Scrogneugneu on 2/5/2007 8:22:19 PM , Rating: 2
Wrong.

Here, posts that show people defending a cause with little to no argument, while bashing out the other cause, without ever acknowledging that they might be wrong in any kind of way (or that anyone saying something against them or their cause might be right) get voted down.

Usually, other posts by the same poster end up with the same judgment (this process is called recognition of a previously identified nuisance).


RE: Beta Period?
By Ardan on 2/5/2007 10:35:15 AM , Rating: 2
I agree with you completely. I voted it up a notch before I replied, too :).


RE: Beta Period?
By politicalslug on 2/6/2007 4:06:45 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Vista will be a minority OS for some time and Apple has got better things to do for the moment than change their development schedule for Microsoft's.


You're and idiot. I just had to get that out.

In one years time Vista will be 5-10x more prevalent than OSX's entire user base. That means that Apple had better move quickly to pick up the slack and develop a decent version of this OS.

Remember, earlier adopters of technology always spend the most $ on technology. A poor Vista version of iTunes could easily translate into weaker than expected sales of Apple's mp3 players.


RE: Beta Period?
By politicalslug on 2/6/2007 4:08:00 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Vista will be a minority OS for some time and Apple has got better things to do for the moment than change their development schedule for Microsoft's.


You're and idiot. I just had to get that out.

In one years time Vista will be 5-10x more prevalent than OSX's entire user base. That means that Apple had better move quickly to pick up the slack and develop a decent version of iTunes for this OS.

Remember, earlier adopters of technology always spend the most $ on technology. A poor Vista version of iTunes could easily translate into weaker than expected sales of Apple's mp3 players.


RE: Beta Period?
By FITCamaro on 2/5/07, Rating: 0
RE: Beta Period?
By crystal clear on 2/5/2007 7:35:03 AM , Rating: 2
Just a point to note-Nvidia has recently released this & its still beta.


Windows Vista 32-bit


ForceWare Release 100
Version: 100.59
Release Date: January 31, 2007
Beta Driver


------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------
Please make sure to read the Driver Installation Hints Document before you install this driver.
------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------

English
File Size: 33.4 MB

Downloads
» Primary Download Site

http://www.nvidia.com/object/winvista_x86_100.59.h...

They also add this-

Quote-
Release Highlights:

Beta driver for NVIDIA SLI™ support for GeForce 8800 GTX/GTS GPUs
This driver supports the following features:
Single GPU support
DirectX 9 support for GeForce 6/7/8 series GPUs
DirectX 10 support for GeForce 8800 GPUs
OpenGL support for GeForce 6/7/8 series GPUs
NVIDIA SLI support
DirectX 9 support for GeForce 8800 GPUs
OpenGL support for GeForce 8800 GPUs
DirectX 9 and OpenGL NVIDIA SLI support for GeForce 6 and 7 series GPUs and DirectX 10 NVIDIA SLI support for GeForce 8800 GPUs will be available in a future driver
If you would like to be notified of upcoming drivers for Windows Vista, please subscribe to the newsletter
Please read the release notes for more information on product support, feature limitations, and known compatibility issues
Release Notes - 100.59
Control Panel User's Guide

These NVIDA Windows Vista drivers are under development. This version is not fully optimized for full 3D performance and may not include all available features available on different operating systems. NVIDIA, along with the industry, is continuing to update its Windows Vista drivers to ensure maximum performance on 3D applications and add support for features. These drivers are provided "AS IS." NVIDIA MAKES NO ...................

Unquote
So in all fairness you should give all companies (not only Apple) some time to come up with their drivers or fixes.


RE: Beta Period?
By TomZ on 2/5/2007 8:10:12 AM , Rating: 2
ATI released their final Vista driver before Vista rolled out last week, and they had their release candidate available a month or two before that, with beta releases all through last year. nVIDIA are being quite slow about getting their drivers finalized, and they are taking a lot of bad PR over that.

I don't understand why it is unreasonable to expect software vendors to use the beta period for an OS to fix their compatibility problems, not to mention the two-month period after RTM but before retail availability. After all, that's one of the more important reasons for making these pre-releases available early in the first place.

In the end, Microsoft gave everyone the opportunity, but not everyone will take advantage of it.


RE: Beta Period?
By dajeepster on 2/5/2007 8:36:26 AM , Rating: 2
And I still can't play my cards in crossfire mode.. even though they said this release fixed that issue :(


RE: Beta Period?
By Perium on 2/5/2007 9:20:54 AM , Rating: 1
lol


RE: Beta Period?
By crystal clear on 2/5/2007 9:00:39 AM , Rating: 2
You have a valid point-but most OEMs & ODMs & the rest expected a slow transition from XP to Vista.So you see the delay.
Anyway you are right on this.

This could help you,read on-

PCmover is the only migration utility that moves programs, files, and settings from your old PC to your new PC. Simply install PCmover on both your old and new computers and go! PCmover will determine which programs, files, and settings need to be moved, and when the transfer is complete, your new computer will have the personality and functionality of your old PC plus all of its own pre-installed software. Works with almost any Windows operating system, from Windows 95 to Vista.

http://www.laplink.com/pcmover/

Note to other readers-I am not promoting this product-just information.



In the mean time-this
By crystal clear on 2/5/2007 5:31:31 AM , Rating: 4
"Apple will release an updated version of iTunes "in the next few weeks."

Unquote-

But in the mean time they have this-


iTunes Repair Tool for Vista 1.0

About iTunes Repair Tool for Vista 1.0
The iTunes Repair Tool for Vista 1.0 will repair permissions for important files required by iTunes to play your iTunes Store purchases.

For more information about iTunes and Windows Vista, please visit this website: http://www.info.apple.com/kbnum/n305042

Download Details
Version:
Post Date: February 1, 2007
License: Update
File Size: 88KB

This download supports:
English
System Requirements
Windows Vista


Download ID: sd12872 88KB




True this is common for everyone not just apple
By AKAK on 2/5/2007 11:22:30 AM , Rating: 2
It is a whole new OC insane amounts of manpower put into it to get it running right. If it was easy it would have ben released a long time ago. Some people are expecting outside company with very limited information do what Microsoft cant- make a bug free Microsoft product or for that matter no one can make a bug free OS first try that is why there are SP1s. Something this big and this different is going to have bugs that cant be worked out until it is in the wild and normal users with the vast array of components start using them.

You might look at the figures on how many ID departments are going for an immediate adoption of Vista for the same reasons- no reason to single out one company it takes time. Betas and release candidates only go so far.





By TomZ on 2/5/2007 11:53:40 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Some people are expecting outside company with very limited information...

There's no reason that Apple would have "limited information." Let's check my HDD... OK, I have an MSDN Subscription, the free Platform SDK for Vista, and the free Device Driver Kit for Vista. Maybe I should post some links for Apple developers to get all the information?
quote:
You might look at the figures on how many ID departments are going for an immediate adoption of Vista for the same reasons- no reason to single out one company it takes time.

IT Department, or general consumer, adoption rates will be slow. But Vista and Vista-loaded PCs are available now, and this release and this date wasn't a surprise to anyone. I don't think Apple's incompetent, so I would instead have to conclude they dragged their feet for some other reason.
quote:
Betas and release candidates only go so far.

That depends on your view. A pro-active approach would be to test out your software app against betas during the beta phase of Vista - after all that is the entire point of the beta. A passive approach would be to wait for Vista to RTM (which happened mid-to-late November), and then start. Even in that case, why isn't Apple done yet, 2-1/2 months later?


Get a clue!
By mydogfarted on 2/5/2007 4:51:10 PM , Rating: 2
ZOMG!!!111oneoneonez Apple iz teh suXX0rz!
I'm so tired of reading the Apple/Sony bashing from you idiots.

How many of you internet tough-guys actually write code for a living? Of those who do: how many write multi-platform code? Sucks, doesn't it? We've got MAKE files here that are bigger than the modules they compile! MS doesn't make it any easier by not conforming to ANSI standards with their langauges and compilers.

The iPod corruption issue is actually one that can happen to any Mass Storage Device connected to a Windows, Mac or Linux machine if the device's file system isn't un-mounted correctly.

I remember when XP came out and there were plenty of drivers and programs that didn't work. XP64 has been out HOW LONG NOW, and I still have devices that don't work on it.




RE: Get a clue!
By TomZ on 2/5/2007 5:59:53 PM , Rating: 2
ZOMG!!!111oneoneonez Microsoft iz teh suXX0rz!
I'm so tired of reading the Microsoft bashing from you idiots.

Just kidding. I just had to point out that in your first paragraph you bash bashing, and in the second, you bash Microsoft. But maybe your bashing about bashing is not about bashing per se, you just don't like bashers bashing Apple?

Anyway, more seriously, sounds like you're doing C/C++ development? What are your complaints about Visual C++ conformance relative to the language standards, specifically? I'm curious.


I hate Apple
By anonymo on 2/5/2007 7:44:29 AM , Rating: 3
To me, this sounds like Apple has been procrastinating for the last year and a half all the while thinking they could blame MS for their complete lack of support for their customers.

Consider this, you've just bought a new Dell notebook (not that I would, but the general consumer might) and of course you can only get Vista with it. So you don't have iPod support? Is Apple on drugs?

I would not be surprised at all if MS sues Apple for saying to wait to upgrade to vista. I mean come on! Apple telling consumers to wait to upgrade to their direct competitor's new software because they haven't bothered to take the last year and a half to make sure their product works properly?

At least MS should come out and tell people to not buy an iPod until Apple fixes all the its little problems...but they would have to have started years ago and say it every week with no end in sight.




.
By semo on 2/5/2007 5:32:55 AM , Rating: 2
the 'usb mass storage device' has now been safely corrupted.

common, if anything should have worked by now is being able to eject your hardware if you find the software still has some issues.

i'm hoping that the ipod is corrupted before it is 'safely removed', otherwise this raises some serious questions about the purpose (quality?) of this feature.




By crystal clear on 2/5/2007 8:06:43 AM , Rating: 2
"Upgrading to Microsoft's latest OS may cause issues for Apple iTunes users"

Unquote-

*Why only Apple(I am no Apple fan) but to a lot many
gadgets, components,devices etc from all sorts of manufacturers/companies.The list is long to write.

*This article explains it all-

Stay on Top of Vista Updates
Posted By: Steve Kleynhans, Research VP
If you've been running Windows Vista before launch, you've no doubt struggled with the sometimes patchy quality of early device drivers. During the past few weeks, I've found myself frequently checking key vendors' Web sites looking for new updated drivers...but few have been coming. The vendors say that final, certified public drivers will be up on their Web sites on 30 January. This begs the question of what drivers are on all those brand-new Vista PCs that are on store shelves. After all, those machines were likely assembled and loaded up several weeks ago. Will a buyer of a new machine be forced to immediately connect to Windows Update or scour all the component suppliers' Web sites to download the "real" drivers for their brand-new system?

Although this is standard practice for many enthusiasts, most consumers would find this unacceptable. The good news is that it shouldn't be necessary. In most cases, PC manufacturers get drivers that are different from the public ones posted online at a component supplier's site. Typically, these drivers are jointly developed and are pared down for specific requirements. They also don't need as much regression testing, because they are going into a well-known, tightly controlled package. The PC on the shelf should be a fully certified and functioning Vista machine out of the box. However, there are a couple of caveats.

Once you get a new machine, you should connect to Windows Update to get security updates, even if no driver updates are required. You should also familiarize yourself with whatever facility the PC manufacturer provides for driver updates and see if they have any updates.

At least initially, using drivers directly from a component supplier's Web site might actually downgrade capabilities from the pre-installed drivers. You should stick to the PC manufacturer's Web site for the first few months for any driver updates.

The bottom line is that, with Vista, as with any new platform, early buyers of new Vista machines should expect that there will be a few rough spots to be worked through during the next few weeks, and they will need to stay connected to both Microsoft and their PC maker.

http://vista.blog.gartner.com/blog/index.php?catid...





Hp is no better than others
By crystal clear on 2/6/2007 1:43:13 AM , Rating: 2
HP has nothing to offer-YES promises-Wait till July
2007.

Quote-

HP LaserJet and Color LaserJet Products - Products Supported Soon in Microsoft Windows Vista


HP is committed to providing the best experience for HP products in the Windows Vista operating environment.
Today, a solution for your product is not available in Microsoft’s Windows Vista. Some drivers will be available as early as January 2007. HP expects to complete the certification process for applicable drivers by July 2007. Drivers will be posted as they are completed.
HP aspires to provide the most up-to-date information on HP drivers and software. Please check back soon for updates.

http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/genericDocument...

Unquote-

*How can MS push up its sales of Vista-when MOST major
OEMs have no drivers ready or Beta versions to offer.

*Early buyers of Vista will have frustrating experiences-
who in turn will spread the word about their experiences

*The ordinary user-who form the majority of the buyers,will certainly pick up these stories (experience)sooner or later.
Horror stories spread fast.
(IT professionals are a tiny minority in the buyers group.)

*The ordinary buyer dont believe Adverts/commercials or salesmen.
They go the tried proven way by asking around-Other peoples personal opinions count in their decision making process-TO
BUY NOW or WAIT NOT NOW.

*Opinions/experiences about the Vista on the WEB are not believed ,due to existance of PAID BLOGGERS-who flood all the sites with their blah blah.
Everybody is aware of their existance-its no secret.


*If DRIVERS are not available FAST-Vista & Vista loaded computers will sit on the shelves/warehouses gathering dust for a long time.

*I would call it "the DRIVER DISASTER...................




Of course!
By AlmostExAMD on 2/5/07, Rating: 0
"You can bet that Sony built a long-term business plan about being successful in Japan and that business plan is crumbling." -- Peter Moore, 24 hours before his Microsoft resignation











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