backtop

Print 70 comment(s) - last by testerguy.. on Jul 29 at 7:56 PM

  (Source: valuewalk.com)
Apple has pulled the EPEAT Gold rating from 39 of its gadgets, including certified monitors, laptops, desktop computers and older versions of the MacBook Air and MacBook Pro

Apple asked that its Electronic Product Environmental Assessment Tool (EPEAT) Gold rating be pulled from some of its devices.

Apple has pulled the EPEAT Gold rating from 39 of its gadgets, including certified monitors, laptops, desktop computers and older versions of the MacBook Air and MacBook Pro. EPEAT evaluates the effect a product has on the environment.

Apple likely surrendered its EPEAT Gold rating on many of its devices because of the Retina MacBook Pro's inability to be repaired or recycled. The batteries are glued to the bottom and the glass is fused to the top of the case, making repairs and recycling impossible. Whether this is the only reason for the lack of certification or not remains unclear.

Apple may have made a hefty sacrifice, though. Many of Apple's largest customers require their products to be EPEAT certified, such as Ford and HSBC. Several government entities and universities require EPEAT certification as well.

Some were so upset with Apple over the decision that they decided to block Apple computer purchases. San Francisco said that Apple computers will no longer be funded by the city for municipal agency use. This includes all 50 of the city's agencies.

"We are disappointed that Apple chose to withdraw from EPEAT," said Melanie Nutter, director of San Francisco's Department of Environment. "We hope that the city saying it will not buy Apple products will make Apple reconsider its participation."

Apple responded to the EPEAT-related worries, saying that it is a "leader" of the industry when it comes to environmental impact.

"Apple takes a comprehensive approach to measuring our environmental impact and all of our products meet the strictest energy efficiency standards backed by the U.S. government, Energy Star 5.2," said Kristin Huguet, Apple spokeswoman. "We also lead the industry by reporting each product's greenhouse gas emissions on our website, and Apple products are superior in other important environmental areas not measured by EPEAT, such as removal of toxic materials."

EPEAT doesn't measure the environmental impact of smartphones or tablets, which is where Apple's main focus is these days.

Back in April, Independent environmental organization Greenpeace gave Apple poor renewable energy scores for its iCloud data center in a report called "How Clean is Your Cloud?" Apple had the highest percentage for coal dependency out of all the other tech giants at 55.1 percent, and a fairly low Clean Energy Index percentage of 15.3 percent compared to others on the list. As far as scores go, Apple received a "D" for energy transparency, an "F" for infrastructure siting, a "D" for energy efficiency and GHG mitigation, and a "D" for renewables and advocacy.

To be fair, Apple has taken certain steps to clean up its act. Earlier this year, Apple announced the opening of a 100-acre, 20-megawatt data center in Maiden, North Carolina. Later, Apple said it was planning to power that data center as well as two others in California and Oregon with renewable energy by February 2013.

Sources: 9 to 5 Mac, The Wall Street Journal


Comments     Threshold


This article is over a month old, voting and posting comments is disabled
Not Surprising
By distinctively on 7/12/2012 6:40:34 AM , Rating: 5
Apple is all about hosing the customer out of every dime possible. Their products can't be repaired easily, simply to screw their lemmings even more. My daughter once had an iPhone 3. Heavy use wore the battery out and after about a year the battery life sucked to bad that it made the phone barely usable. Won't get fooled again.

It's not surprising about the screen either. iPhone users are constantly carrying around their phones with cracked screen since those things are so frackin fragile. Now they're stuck with two years to go on their contract with a cracked screen and probably horrid battery life too. To top this all off, most of these people with still have some twisted idea that "it's the best".

Tony will be here soon with his daily Apple marketing, avoiding the truth of the topic while giving us something ridiculous like market share.




RE: Not Surprising
By testerguy on 7/12/12, Rating: -1
RE: Not Surprising
By FITCamaro on 7/12/2012 7:40:33 AM , Rating: 3
I've seen plenty of broken iPhone screens. But I've also seen plenty of Android phones with broken screens. It's because people are retarded and don't put a case on their phone.


RE: Not Surprising
By chµck on 7/12/2012 11:23:37 AM , Rating: 2
not all screens are made the same. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jf1fRu9YgfE


RE: Not Surprising
By jimbojimbo on 7/12/2012 11:33:28 PM , Rating: 4
I've seen plenty of cracked iPhone screens but not really Android phones. That's primarily because the iPhone 4 is horribly fragile whereas the most popular Android phones have a plastic casing and is incredibly durable and very light and often are protected by Gorilla Glass.

Also I blame the fact that iPhone users don't use cases so they can show the world their phone since they care more about image than anything.


RE: Not Surprising
By Digimonkey on 7/12/2012 8:17:48 AM , Rating: 5
quote:
3 - Track record of supporting legacy devices over 2 or 3 years in contrast to Android who fails badly in this area. Fact.


Since Apple doesn't actually have a bargain bin phone, their old phones end up in that place. Since the 3GS is still sold, yes they provide updates, though those updates lack a lot of features.

In other news, this is an example of how Apple treats it's customers:

http://arstechnica.com/apple/2012/07/confirmed-mou...


RE: Not Surprising
By Tony Swash on 7/12/12, Rating: -1
RE: Not Surprising
By Digimonkey on 7/12/2012 12:16:59 PM , Rating: 2
Of course they have a higher customer satisfaction rating. They only build a premium product line so compared to others they come out looking better, when in reality you're not comparing oranges to oranges.

Dell, HP, Acer all build a broad spectrum of consumer models, and they're all taken into account in the over all customer satisfaction rating.


RE: Not Surprising
By Tony Swash on 7/12/12, Rating: -1
RE: Not Surprising
By Digimonkey on 7/12/2012 12:58:22 PM , Rating: 2
Apple won't make cheaper laptops based on this. They know it'd hurt their image. However, the market has a demand for cheap laptops and PCs, someone therefore fills that request. To now say Apple builds a better premium laptop than another manufacturer because of the manufacturers consumer ratings based is therefore flawed.

Even while maintaining a premium product line that is severely limited in model scope, Apple has hardware issues. I think if they tried to play in the same ballpark with other manufacturers they'd actually do worse in consumer ratings, but of course this is only speculation and will never be proven.


RE: Not Surprising
By retrospooty on 7/12/2012 1:35:43 PM , Rating: 2
" Fiendishly Apple only make high quality products and thus unfairly garner praise from consumers. How cunning."

Come on Tony, your bright enough to realize that it wasnt a comment on Apple business model. It was a comment on how skewed your stats are.

NEXT!


RE: Not Surprising
By Tony Swash on 7/12/2012 1:48:10 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
It was a comment on how skewed your stats are.


That's where you leave reality behind.

The issue at hand - do Apple make products or conduct their business in such a way as to rip off or mistreat the customer?

All the evidence as compiled by many organisations asking many customers of many different companies shows the same thing. Apple customers are more happy than those of other companies.

Your response - please make it go away! That evidence doesn't count.

I assume you base your belief that Apple rips off customers of something other than evidence?

Perhaps you have been listening to this guy :)

http://youtu.be/-JItCuEhsCo


RE: Not Surprising
By retrospooty on 7/12/2012 1:54:45 PM , Rating: 3
I never said Apple rips off customers. That was not my post, nor my belief. I AM saying that your stats are skewed. I really dont care who is happy with what, Apple certainly makes some great products, but you are just WAY too biased to take seriously.

Apple makes great products, but certainly not the best. I am sitting here with my Galaxy S3 watching Netflix at 1280x720 on a 4.8 inch screen. Its simply breathtaking. Its fast, fluid, beautiful, light and thin, yet solid. All that and it has a removable battery, micro SD card and uses micro USB like all other phone made in the past 4 years (except of course Apple's phones) Apple really needs to catch up.


RE: Not Surprising
By Tony Swash on 7/12/2012 3:00:37 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Apple really needs to catch up.


Why? They make the top two best welling handsets and make more profits than all the other handset makers combined. They seem to be doing quite well :)

As far as I can see you seem to think that all stats must be skewed because they all show the same thing - Apple comes top in customer satisfaction.

All I am doing is responding to the juvenile posts from people bleating on about how Apple is screwing their customers. I merely point out that all the evidence points to the opposite conclusion. Which you seem to think is bias.


RE: Not Surprising
By retrospooty on 7/12/2012 3:05:18 PM , Rating: 2
"All I am doing is responding to the juvenile posts from people bleating on about how Apple is screwing their customers. I merely point out that all the evidence points to the opposite conclusion. Which you seem to think is bias."

All you do is what you do here every day. Ignore any negative points about Apple and exaggerate any positive points, while ignoring any positive points about Apple's competitors and exaggerate any negative points.

Like I said... You are just WAY too biased to even take seriously.


RE: Not Surprising
By testerguy on 7/13/2012 3:09:57 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Of course they have a higher customer satisfaction rating. They only build a premium product line so compared to others they come out looking better, when in reality you're not comparing oranges to oranges. Dell, HP, Acer all build a broad spectrum of consumer models, and they're all taken into account in the over all customer satisfaction rating.


Actually, this is not the case.

When a consumer purchases a product for a higher price it is in fact HARDER to meet their expectations and satisfy them:

a) They expect perfection because they paid a lot.
b) Any issues they do have, they will definitely act on (whereas a cheaper device they may throw away)
c) The type of person who has more money is more difficult to please.
d) Some consumers are already satisfied having paid less for something they perceive to be worth more, Apple doesn't have that.

There have been numerous surveys relating to 'reported faults per device' which have highlighted Apples premium only strategy as a disadvantage, since consumers report a higher percentage of faults and expect quicker and better resolutions.


RE: Not Surprising
By jbwhite99 on 7/12/12, Rating: 0
RE: Not Surprising
By Tony Swash on 7/12/2012 6:34:56 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
The cold hard fact is that Apple sells because they spend money on marketing.


Is that why Apple consistently comes top of all customer satisfaction surveys? Because of advertising? How does that work?


RE: Not Surprising
By CharonPDX on 7/12/2012 1:26:36 PM , Rating: 2
Oh, no! My obsolete computer can't run the next release!

In other news, ATI never provided Windows 7 video drivers for the X1600. Windows 8 has similar limitations, you can just choose to run Windows 8 without video acceleration if you so desire, the interface will just suck ass. Apple says "No, video acceleration is too key to the OS."


RE: Not Surprising
By jbwhite99 on 7/12/2012 2:01:12 PM , Rating: 2
Vista drivers should run just fine.


RE: Not Surprising
By Digimonkey on 7/12/2012 2:48:40 PM , Rating: 2
It's not really about the video drivers. It seems like it's mostly a deal with 32-bit EFIs that Apple could actually update but chooses not too.


RE: Not Surprising
By testerguy on 7/13/2012 3:05:45 AM , Rating: 2
If your 'obsolete computer' is a recently purchased Android on a 2 year contract, you need to take a step back and learn what obsolete really means.

Lets take a more accurate perspective: Which is better:

Scenario A:

Oh, no! My 'obsolete' computer can't run the next release.

Scenario B:

Oh, yes! My 'obsolete' computer CAN run the next release and I get the latest updates for years. Woohoo!

So, which one is better? Which do you think a logical consumer would select?


RE: Not Surprising
By FredEx on 7/12/2012 8:26:45 AM , Rating: 3
I don't put much value in many user ratings people want to show in these discussions. Although the iPhone is not only tied to AT&T anymore, everybody I know with one uses AT&T with their iPhone. Now, this is not Apple's fault, but iPhone users I know with AT&T service constantly complain about the service. Yet if they were interviewed about their cell service and the iPhone they'd give them glowing reviews, or in a discussion like this they will tell people how great their service is. I sometimes wonder why they stay with such a bad service. Since I know they do that with the service provider, it makes me not put any value on what they'd tell me about the phone itself.

Then again, all their problems maybe are not actually all the service. I can't count the number of times I'll hear a friend say, "Damn AT&T, I can't get a signal" or "Damn AT&T, I keep getting dropped." I'll get out my old LG Banter UX265 and have 3 to 5 bars and no problem making a call or texting...at the same time not having charged it in three days.

This is just me, even being a tech guy for decades, I don't get using a smart phone. I couldn't wait to get away from a 12" or 13" screen on a laptop or a desktop and people now buy stuff with small screens to get on-line. I can't stand trying to read something on a small screen when somebody passes their smart phone over to me and says, "Look at this!"


RE: Not Surprising
By HrilL on 7/12/2012 12:12:21 PM , Rating: 2
Have to completely agree there. I used to have an iPhone and thought I had network issues with At&t all the time. I'm a very technical person who works in networking. So I decided to also carry around an older feature phone that was also 3G. It consistently had better service than my iPhone. In areas where my iPhone had no service at all it would still get 1-2 bars and be able to make calls. I later got a GS2 and it has worked almost flawlessly since getting it. Though I did have some issues when I was running Ginger bread those have all gone away now that I have Ice cream sandwich. Now my friends with brand new iPhone 4s's complain At&t sucks I just pull out my phone and load a page or go on facebook and be like looks like its working fine...


RE: Not Surprising
By drycrust3 on 7/12/2012 4:04:24 PM , Rating: 2
Did you install Ice Cream Sandwich on the GS2 or is this a different phone?


RE: Not Surprising
By HrilL on 7/12/2012 7:30:35 PM , Rating: 2
I installed Ice Cream Sandwich on my GS2. Its a European model since I got it before any US carriers had them. Thus I got the official Samsung release for the UK. Not sure what carrier it was for at this point.


RE: Not Surprising
By Apone on 7/12/12, Rating: 0
RE: Not Surprising
By retrospooty on 7/12/2012 2:52:22 PM , Rating: 2
"Do you honestly think prospective Apple adopters are going to perform their due diligence"

They do do due diligence, it's just that it's closer to doo doo diligence.

:P


RE: Not Surprising
By testerguy on 7/13/2012 3:14:14 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
- Do you honestly think prospective Apple adopters are going to perform their due diligence (such as your laundry list of facts) or are they going to get an iPhone because everyone has one and you wouldn't be socially accepted among peers if you didn't have one?....(yeah I agree 9 times out of 10 it's usually the latter)...


I think you're right, for a lot of people their reasons for buying are not necessarily logical.

That doesn't mean that logical reasons don't exist, though.

quote:
- I also find it funny how Apple defenders always pitch Apple's quality, brand, quality, brand, and ignore specifications. Now that DT users such as distinctively are questioning Apple's quality, you're going to rationalize Apple's apparent superiority with hardware specs? (e.g. fastest GPU, etc.)? Now you're starting to sound like an Android fanboy....


I'm actually a neutral. When I buy it's using a combination of factors, like performance, battery life, apps, appearance to some extent (so long as it doesn't look bad), mobility (size, weight). I think the security of the quality track record of the brand is also a factor which I take into account.

All of that being said, I'm not necessarily saying my next phone will be an iPhone, just that there are legitimate and logical reasons to perceive an iPhone as 'the best'.


RE: Not Surprising
By Cheesew1z69 on 7/13/2012 12:43:34 PM , Rating: 2
You really should not talk about logic....seriously...you and logic = don't go together.....


RE: Not Surprising
By distinctively on 7/12/2012 8:15:48 PM , Rating: 1
Don't start pretending not to know why we didn't replace the battery. You know damn well that the battery for an iPhone is 3-4 times more expensive than other phones. Then there's the inconvenience of bringing the thing in and having to wait for it to be repaired. Besides, why on earth would we bother replacing that phone knowing that the battery would just die again in another year. Buying spare chargers for an iPhone is nothing short of anal rape as well. The phone isn't worth it. Why would we bother to go through that trouble when it keeps losing calls and the UI looks more like a cheesy cartoon than a sophisticated UI like their competition has.

Your selective small set of benchmarks isn't fooling anyone, including yourself. You know full well that Krait is a faster processor. I'm not even going to bother pointing you to links showing the inferior durability of an iPhone. I know you've seen those too and are just avoiding the facts again.

We've all come across far too many iPhone owners claiming it's "the best" without being able to explain why. I'd say that's at least 90%. These idiots would rate it high in surveys if they were holding a fresh steaming turd with the Apple logo on the back of it.

There's squat for difference in size between app stores. It doesn't matter if Apple has 1001 of the same app while Android only has 100 or even Blackberry only having 100. It's still basically the same app. Holy crap I can't believe I'm wasting my time explaining this to you since you probably know this already and are just burying your head in the sand.

Yes, I do know better. I've got seven kids and we've had plenty of smartphones. I do see the reviews. I do get plenty of hands on with these devices. Frankly, we like the Blackberries more than the iPhone. At least you can type on it unlike the Apple product and it's cheap miniature screen.


RE: Not Surprising
By testerguy on 7/13/2012 3:30:10 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
on't start pretending not to know why we didn't replace the battery. You know damn well that the battery for an iPhone is 3-4 times more expensive than other phones.


Actually, I genuinely don't. I've never had to replace one. I do know that getting a battery replaced is cheaper than getting a new phone though. That I am certain of. I also know that there is a 1 year warranty on your battery for free with every iPhone which gives you free replacements. Any replacement battery which failed within a year could also be replaced for free.

quote:
Then there's the inconvenience of bringing the thing in and having to wait for it to be repaired


So instead you prefer the inconvenience of purchasing a whole new phone and contract? You do have a point in that it would be slightly more convenient if you didn't have to go in to get your battery replaced, but it's a minor problem, not something that would force me to go out and buy another phone.

quote:
Buying spare chargers for an iPhone is nothing short of anal rape as well


Um, what?

http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/?ie=UTF8&keywords=iphone...

If £3.36 is 'anal rape' I worry about you buying anything.

quote:
Why would we bother to go through that trouble when it keeps losing calls and the UI looks more like a cheesy cartoon than a sophisticated UI like their competition has.


Clearly the millions and millions of users manage to use their iPhones without 'losing calls'. As for the UI, it's designed to be user friendly, much like the Google homepage. That's not a bad thing. If the 'cartoon' design is stopping you actually getting things done on your phone, you have broader issues.

quote:
Your selective small set of benchmarks isn't fooling anyone, including yourself. You know full well that Krait is a faster processor


I do know this. I also know that since the operating system on a mobile phone is graphics accelerated, and that most often when you run into performance issues it's graphics related rather than CPU limited, the much, much faster GPU in the iPhone means that overall it will feel faster and run games at a higher FPS. It's ironic that you accuse me of selecting a 'selective small set of benchmarks' and then simply say 'faster processor'. It should also be noted that the 'faster processor' has to be faster just to break even because of Androids greatest strength and greatest weakness - device support. Apple is able to heavily optimise its software with its hardware, for example allowing it to utilise less RAM without sacrificing speed - it's the advantage they get for a tightly integrated OS and hardware.

quote:
I'm not even going to bother pointing you to links showing the inferior durability of an iPhone. I know you've seen those too and are just avoiding the facts again.


Firstly I haven't made any claims about durability so how can I be avoiding any facts, secondly - durability isn't something you can objectively 'prove' - it's just your opinion - what 'facts' are you claiming exist? Should I cite the reliability ratings and argue that this reflects how 'durable' a device is? Thirdly, when I buy a phone I don't plan to throw it around anyway, and usually get a case, so for me personally durability isn't a high priority.

quote:
We've all come across far too many iPhone owners claiming it's "the best" without being able to explain why. I'd say that's at least 90%. These idiots would rate it high in surveys if they were holding a fresh steaming turd with the Apple logo on the back of it.


I don't really get why you're going round asking iPhone owners why they believe their phone is the best, and I can only assume that you're first asking them if they believe their phone is the best too. Honestly a conversation I've never had. That being said, even if there are those who can't explain why their phone is the best, it doesn't mean that it isn't.

quote:
There's squat for difference in size between app stores. It doesn't matter if Apple has 1001 of the same app while Android only has 100 or even Blackberry only having 100. It's still basically the same app. Holy crap I can't believe I'm wasting my time explaining this to you since you probably know this already and are just burying your head in the sand.


You're simply wrong. I'm a big football fan, as are many people, and by football I mean proper football - like Messi, Ronaldo, etc. The most watched sporting league in the world, anywhere, in any sport, is the English Premier League. When I bought a phone, I wanted to be able to watch those matches on it. The only app store with a Sky Sports add to facilitate this? Apple. And since this league is the most watched sport league in the world, I'm clearly not alone.

That is why idiotic sentiments like '1001 or 100' is the same, are simply illogical and ignorant.

The issue remains, too - you can watch Formula 1 in the UK on your iPhone, but not on an Android. And that's just the examples I personally ran into - there will be hundreds/thousands more.

As for whether you or your family like Blackberries, I couldn't care less - it doesn't do anything to change or disprove the points I made about iPhones.


RE: Not Surprising
By JackBurton on 7/12/2012 10:15:50 AM , Rating: 1
I guess if you keep lying to yourself, you finally start to believe your own BS.

"Tony will be here soon with his daily Apple marketing, avoiding the truth of the topic while giving us something ridiculous like market share."

lol, as opposed to your anti-Apple BS?


RE: Not Surprising
By Motoman on 7/12/2012 10:42:36 AM , Rating: 1
The problem is that to be "anti-Apple" is to be "pro-reality."

Apple is wrong. Non-Apple is right. They are not equivalent.

If you're an Apple consumer you've proven yourself to be incapable of rational thought, so it's not surprising in the least that you're unable to understand this basic fact.


RE: Not Surprising
By TakinYourPoints on 7/12/2012 3:24:42 PM , Rating: 2
Right, and Intel is evil, which is why you shovel your poor unfortunate clients into objectively inferior AMD products.

Way to live inside reality with your unbiased and completely rational thought process


RE: Not Surprising
By Samus on 7/12/2012 12:38:39 PM , Rating: 2
I hate repairing Macbooks, especially older 2008-2009 Macbook Pro's. The hard disk data cables literally disintegrate when replacing a crashed hard disk, something that happens all too often in those machines because the drive is sandwiched in the center of the machine where there is no ventilation. The best part is when trying to install a non-Apple SSD and having to hack the OS to get TRIM support.

This company operates like some rogue Soviet Russian government agency.


RE: Not Surprising
By Reclaimer77 on 7/12/2012 2:58:16 PM , Rating: 2
Kinda torn here. I don't particularly favor Apple, I avoid their products, and agree with what you're saying.

But on the other hand I believe in Capitalism, the free market, and think a lot of these "Green" certifications are an elaborate scam to make money. You basically pay some group of people to arbitrarily say you're "green". Woo hoooo, bfd.

I'm not bothered that Apple, or any company, would choose to opt out of some certification scheme if it's not in their best interests to be in it.


RE: Not Surprising
By TakinYourPoints on 7/12/2012 3:27:02 PM , Rating: 2
You know that you can just bring your iPhone in and they'll replace the battery for you. There are also numerous third party shops that will do the service, although it won't be free like what you get at an Apple store.


Spin and PR talk
By BZDTemp on 7/12/2012 7:00:06 AM , Rating: 2
Apple is in full damage control mode because they have realized first using being green as part of their marketing and then doing this backfires.

I hope the consumers can see through the BS and act accordingly.




RE: Spin and PR talk
By testerguy on 7/12/12, Rating: -1
RE: Spin and PR talk
By retrospooty on 7/12/2012 8:21:29 AM , Rating: 3
"Get some objectivity please :-)"

Yes get some objectivity please, like Testerguy who just posted a #'d 6 bullet point post above why Apple is the best, and dont bother to put in any of Apple drawbacks or competing platforms assets, because that would just be too much "objectivity"

:P


RE: Spin and PR talk
By testerguy on 7/13/2012 3:37:42 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
who just posted a #'d 6 bullet point post above why Apple is the best


When you have to exaggerate to make a point, you don't have a point..

What I actually did was offer 6 factual reasons why some people could logically believe their iPhone is the best.

I did not at any time say that 'Apple is the best'.

Similarly, since my goal was to offer the original poster some logical and factual reasons why the people he laughs at may actually know more than him, putting in 'Apple drawbacks' would have been completely irrelevant. Since I don't do irrelevance, I didn't do it.

For example, if I had stated 'a drawback is that iPhones don't have removable batteries' - it would have added precisely nothing to the point being made - which was that there are logical and true reasons for people perceiving the iPhone as the best phone.


RE: Spin and PR talk
By nafhan on 7/13/2012 10:48:49 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
I did not at any time say that 'Apple is the best'.
Uhm, you didn't use those exact words, but this is pretty close:
quote:
...what makes Apples (laptops specifically) in my opinion the highest quality on the market...
Plus, "Apple is the best!!1!" seems to be a pretty good summary of everything you say on here.

Also, facts... they're great for proving a point; any point! It's possible to make a big deal about some facts while ignoring others. Then when someone disagrees with the conclusion, convince them that they need to prove the facts wrong. Who cares that the conclusion is the real problem, right?


RE: Spin and PR talk
By testerguy on 7/15/2012 7:07:13 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Uhm, you didn't use those exact words, but this is pretty close: quote: ...what makes Apples (laptops specifically) in my opinion the highest quality on the market...


How is saying that Apple laptops specifically are, in my opinion, the highest quality in the market, in any way the equivalent of saying 'Apple is best'. It simply isn't, and you must have a complete absence of logic to perceive it in that way. Not only is my comment specific to one device category , it's specific to one metric within that device category, mentioning nothing of performance, value, etc. Also clearly prefaced with the fact it's my personal opinion and not an objective truth.

How to make yourself look a fool in one comment?

quote:
Also, facts... they're great for proving a point; any point! It's possible to make a big deal about some facts while ignoring others. Then when someone disagrees with the conclusion, convince them that they need to prove the facts wrong. Who cares that the conclusion is the real problem, right?


Probably the single most idiotic comment I've ever seen from you. As I already explained above , the point of my facts (which they are) was not to reach a conclusion, or even to provide every single fact in the world (clearly a ridiculous request which would necessarily have to be provided in your delusional little world). My point and aim was to provide legitimate metrics on which the iPhone leads, thereby proving that if said metrics are the priority for prospective purchasers, they have legitimate facts on which they can backup their opinion that their iPhone is the best.

What you, (ridiculously I might add) failed to grasp is that no amount of negative facts would change the point in any way, whatsoever.

It's that complete lack of intelligence which concerns me about your post.

Specifically:

quote:
Then when someone disagrees with the conclusion, convince them that they need to prove the facts wrong


Where exactly did you see a conclusion? To believe that I provided any conclusion and not to simply see what I provided, which are logical facts, is your own failing, not mine.


RE: Spin and PR talk
By nafhan on 7/12/2012 9:09:49 AM , Rating: 3
I'm not sure about OP, but on a personal level I think upsetting people who rabidly defend Apple and their products online is a great reason!


RE: Spin and PR talk
By testerguy on 7/13/2012 3:40:35 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
I'm not sure about OP, but on a personal level I think upsetting people who rabidly defend Apple and their products online is a great reason!


1 - Impressive. I think you should tell your 'friends' and prospective employers that you aim to 'upset' some people.

2 - Do you honestly think the comment upsets anyone? If anything, to make the comment in the first place indicates that you yourself are upset. Indeed, aiming to 'upset' Apple fans pretty much shows you're already upset.


RE: Spin and PR talk
By nafhan on 7/13/2012 10:20:42 AM , Rating: 2
1. I don't think anyone I know or work for/with would be bothered to know that I occasionally make statements that upset Apple fanatics on online message boards. I'm sorry if you know or work with people like that. That kind of sucks.
2. Reading comprehension, man. I was talking about someone else's comment. More importantly, calm down, take your vallium, and enjoy your weekend, it was a joke (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joke ). Geez...


RE: Spin and PR talk
By testerguy on 7/15/2012 7:13:46 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
1. I don't think anyone I know or work for/with would be bothered to know that I occasionally make statements that upset Apple fanatics on online message boards. I'm sorry if you know or work with people like that. That kind of sucks.


I guess that's the difference between me and you. See, everyone I know and work for actually respects me enough to expect more from me than trying to troll online.

I guess if people you know expect that from you, that says all we need to know.

quote:
2. Reading comprehension, man. I was talking about someone else's comment. More importantly, calm down, take your vallium, and enjoy your weekend, it was a joke (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joke ). Geez...


It doesn't matter at all which comment you were replying to. My comment doesn't even mention what you're replying to. Your comment stands alone. You said that
quote:
I think upsetting people who rabidly defend Apple and their products online is a great reason!
..

And I replied by stating that:

1 - How embarrassing for you

and

2 - It upset nobody, and that for upsetting people to be a good thing you would first have to be upset yourself.

The post you were replying to and such nonsense is of no relevance whatsoever to either of the above two points.

As for linking 'joke' on Wikipedia, I don't think I've ever seen such a woeful attempt to attach any credence to what is a ridiculously illogical and failed post. Ironically, 'joke' is quite an apt description for trolls such as yourself who actually admit to trying to upset people. Sadly all that aim proves is your own tears.


RE: Spin and PR talk
By Cheesew1z69 on 7/15/2012 11:32:18 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
See, everyone I know and work for actually respects me enough to expect more from me than trying to troll online.
Yet, here you are. Trolling for Apple. Simply shocking.

Two things you do that in every post, use the words relevant, relevance, and logic or logical.

Logic = you need to quit using that word, you are rabid about defending Apple, that in itself, is not logical. To the casual observer, logic is absolutely something you don't posses by your countless rants and book like posts about a COMPANY who gives 2 SHITS about you.

You claim you aren't defending Apple. LOL...I don't think you have a logical bone in your body. It's quite apparent to anyone here who isn't completely BIAS to see how you foam at the mouth any chance you get when it comes to Apple.

And as for relevance, sorry, but because you say it doesn't have relevance to YOU, it doesn't to everyone else. But then again, you are TROLLING here for Apple. To me and others who observe your idiotic rants defending Apple, your life has no relevance. To Apple, your life has no relevance. You are a NUMBER to them. See how this works?

Also, I would find it hard to believe your boss and coworkers, would actually respect you if they knew how you were on here. I, IMO, think they would actually consider you a little nuts in the head.


RE: Spin and PR talk
By nafhan on 7/17/2012 12:14:48 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
everyone I know and work for actually respects me enough to expect more from me than trying to troll online.
I'll assume you're not just making that up... this means you present yourself quite differently in real life than you do on this forum, because that's exactly how you come across here.

That's all. I think I've already responded to the rest of your talking points.


RE: Spin and PR talk
By testerguy on 7/29/2012 7:56:05 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I'll assume you're not just making that up... this means you present yourself quite differently in real life than you do on this forum, because that's exactly how you come across here.


The reason you confuse logic with 'appearing' like a troll is that the sentiment on this site is so distorted by Jason's nonsense.

Just like in real life, I present logical arguments and have no bias. Thus I would not regard 'annoying' Android users as a goal in my life ;-)


No iPhone for me
By mchentz on 7/12/2012 8:16:43 AM , Rating: 2
My son got an iPhone 4 and took it back withing a week battery life was a factor. He then got an Android phone and it worked so much better he has been satisfied with his phone since then. Based on his real world usage I won't be getting an iPhone

The battery is not removable so do you have to take the phone to an apple store to recycle the phone?




RE: No iPhone for me
By retrospooty on 7/12/2012 8:27:50 AM , Rating: 2
"My son got an iPhone 4 and took it back withing a week battery life was a factor."

Ya, i am not really getting why they wont make it a removable battery. It would held them save $ on repair costs for not just bad batteries, but for alot that are just 80% capacity. Working, but people want a new one... Also, they could make a killing selling extra batteries.

My SGS3 is uber-thin and has a removable battery, so its not like it cant be done.


RE: No iPhone for me
By jimbojimbo on 7/12/2012 11:38:10 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Ya, i am not really getting why they wont make it a removable battery.
Simple. Apple thinks their consumers are too stupid to open a back plate and swap out a battery. I'm sort of kind of joking here but really it's the actual damn truth.


RE: No iPhone for me
By JackBurton on 7/12/2012 10:11:14 AM , Rating: 1
Funny, my brother's only experience with a smart phone was his first Android phone. He had it for about a year and a half before finally trading it in out of frustration and got a new iPhone 4S. He says it is so much nicer than his Android phone and will never go back to Android.


RE: No iPhone for me
By nafhan on 7/12/2012 10:33:25 AM , Rating: 3
This reminds me of a friend who was raving about how his iMac was so much faster than the PC it replaced.
iMac: cost $2000, 5 days old, current OS
PC: cost $500, 6 years old, 2 OS versions behind

When I pointed out to him that the age and cost difference might be a factor in why the iMac was so much better, he looked a little sad and stopped talking about it.

Anyway, that's one thing about the iPhone, it's kind of like McDonald's, it might not be the best place to get a hamburger, but at least you know what you're going to get. Android, OtOH, is more like mom-and-pop restaurants, some are great, and some suck - bad. Also like restaurants, 5 or 10 minutes looking online before you buy will usually be enough to figure out the difference between the good and the bad.


RE: No iPhone for me
By nofear4COMment on 7/12/2012 11:13:02 AM , Rating: 2
He is an idiot! and he don't have any idea how much freedom of Android provides.


RE: No iPhone for me
By retrospooty on 7/12/2012 11:34:18 AM , Rating: 2
"Funny, my brother's only experience with a smart phone was his first Android phone. He had it for about a year and a half before finally trading it in out of frustration and got a new iPhone 4S."

This makes sense... Android 2 years ago sucked compared to IOS of 2 years ago. Android today is superior to IOS today.


RE: No iPhone for me
By Rukkian on 7/12/2012 12:31:17 PM , Rating: 2
I agree, however there are providers out there (US Cellular here in midwest) that are still agressively pushing old, outdated crappy android phones to people that do not have a clue. They are constantly running adds for the Galaxy S1 right now, which is old and underpowered.

My sister in law got one 8 months ago and is not happy with it, cause with 384mb ram and Froyo, it is really not a very good device. This causes some that do not know better to figure that it must be that all androids suck and want to switch.


RE: No iPhone for me
By retrospooty on 7/12/2012 1:38:03 PM , Rating: 2
"this causes some that do not know better to figure that it must be that all androids suck and want to switch."

True... but Apple just might be the best product for people that don't know any better.


RE: No iPhone for me
By jimbojimbo on 7/12/2012 11:40:03 PM , Rating: 2
If you replace any phone after 1.5 years with the latest top of the line model you'll immediately see a huge improvement. This is just stupid. You can't compare the two. And 1.5 years was it the top Android model?


Clarification
By TakinYourPoints on 7/12/2012 3:21:55 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
because of the Retina MacBook Pro's inability to be repaired or recycled.


This infers that it is impossible to recycle. The rMBP is difficult to recycle by most companies because it is hard to disassemble, but it isn't impossible and it is actually done. Apple runs its own recycling program where they'll either take the item or even pay you for it: http://www.apple.com/recycling/

As far as other environmental factors, they also use highly recyclable aluminum rather than plastic which is derived from oil, as well as making products free of toxic chemicals that are common in electronics. Macs also hold onto their resale value and remain in use for much longer than the norm (try and sell any other brand computer for 60% of its value after two years). Keeping products active for as long as possible is also important.

In any case, this will certainly affect Apple's ability to continue selling to big government, but its either that or continuing to make their products even thinner and more densely packed.




RE: Clarification
By jimbojimbo on 7/12/2012 11:45:58 PM , Rating: 2
Any company can "recycle" and take in their products when their definition is to dump them somewhere in India or China.

By the way you must've missed the article stating that the battery is glued to the case so if you tried to separate them the battery will actually rupture and leak its chemicals. Yes, very easy to disassemble.


RE: Clarification
By TakinYourPoints on 7/13/2012 3:16:18 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Any company can "recycle" and take in their products when their definition is to dump them somewhere in India or China.


Burden of proof is on you to show that Apple does this. Their recycle and refurbish business is pretty big.

quote:
By the way you must've missed the article stating that the battery is glued to the case so if you tried to separate them the battery will actually rupture and leak its chemicals. Yes, very easy to disassemble.


Sensationalism from iFixit, Apple can and will replace the rMBP battery inside their own retail stores for $200. The part that requires specialized disassembly is the top portion since the LCD and top chassis is one piece, which is done to make the rMBP thinner and to put the display right up front (looks amazing). Replacing a bad screen means replacing the entire top half, and again this is something that Apple recycles.

Consider the source. iFixit has an agenda given that they sell tools and parts to repair and replace Mac products. The smaller and more integrated laptops become, the more marginalized iFixit becomes. Like it or not, PC laptops will eventually become as difficult or impossible to service as a smartphone as they continue to get smaller and smaller. So long as companies like Apple, Dell, HP, etc, take care of discarded products then its fine, but its too bad for companies that make their money from servicing laptops.


Zzzzz
By zlandar on 7/12/2012 11:13:36 AM , Rating: 2
Hippies are going to be Hippies.

Most consumers don't give a crap.




RE: Zzzzz
By bupkus on 7/12/2012 11:15:50 PM , Rating: 2
And beatniks will be beatniks.


Not recyclability, just repairability.
By CharonPDX on 7/12/2012 1:21:01 PM , Rating: 2
The new MacBook Pro is still as recyclable as a computer gets - it's just the repairability that is essentially zero.




By TakinYourPoints on 7/13/2012 3:18:30 AM , Rating: 2
Exactly. They are totally recyclable, but repairability is zero. In a few months we'll see replacement SSDs come out from third parties, but in every other respect you're getting what you get. Its a good thing that the minimum configuration has 8GB of RAM instead of 4GB.


By CharonPDX on 7/12/2012 1:34:07 PM , Rating: 2
Also, San Francisco (and other municipalities) aren't "boycotting" Apple because they're "upset" over this decision. Many municipalities have a legal requirement to purchase only EPEAT-certified hardware.




By maugrimtr on 7/12/2012 8:46:06 AM , Rating: 1
The Apple response, unless there was more to it, completely ignored the repair and recycling issue that many suspect led to them leaving EPEAT. So basically, this was nothing but a misdirection to fool the weak minded.

End of the day: All these broken and junked machines can't be recycled or repaired so they'll be dumped, exported to Asia (dumping at home is bad for the environment afterall!), and it will be left to thousands of poor Asians living in shanty towns to put themselves at risk of toxic/carcinogenic exposure extracting all the precious saleable metals using a homegrown smelting unit (i.e. pot + fire).

Screw Apple for the mm they saved...




"You can bet that Sony built a long-term business plan about being successful in Japan and that business plan is crumbling." -- Peter Moore, 24 hours before his Microsoft resignation











botimage
Copyright 2013 DailyTech LLC. - RSS Feed | Advertise | About Us | Ethics | FAQ | Terms, Conditions & Privacy Information | Kristopher Kubicki