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Print 87 comment(s) - last by robinthakur.. on Jul 27 at 10:38 AM

Apparently the end is not nigh for Apple

Market research firm IDC was ready to sound Apple's downward spiral, claiming the company's shipments of Mac computers had dropped 12.4 percent for calendar Q2 2009 (which is Apple's fiscal Q3 2009).  However, when all was said and done, Apple came out on top and had the last laugh over analysts that have perpetually doubted it.

Despite attacks from its competitors about its offerings being overpriced, small price cuts help propel Apple's Mac sales to 2.6 million units, a growth of over 4 percent year to year.  This beat Gartner's forecast of 2.5 percent growth, and handily beat the IDC's gloomy forecast. 

Predictably, Apple also shipped a lot of iPhones -- 5.2 million to be precise.  That represents an incredible 626 percent growth over last year, though missing the mark of 6.9 million that the 3G set during its first quarter of availability.  The iPhone news was so good it overshadowed the decline in iPod sales by 7 percent to 10.2 million units.  Perhaps some iPod users turned to the iPhone.

Steve Jobs, Apple’s CEO, back from his medical leaved cheered, "We’re making our most innovative products ever and our customers are responding.  We’re thrilled to have sold over 5.2 million iPhones during the quarter and users have downloaded more than 1.5 billion applications from our App Store in its first year."

Apple's quarterly income soared from $7.46B USD last year to $8.34B USD this year.  Its profits likewise rose from $1.07B USD to $1.23B USD, a 15 percent increase.  Including accounting of iPhone and Apple TV based subscription services, which are accounted for over their lifetime the GAAP-adjusted revenue and profit were $9.74B USD and $1.94B USD, respectively.

Peter Oppenheimer, Apple’s CFO predicted the Apple train would keep rolling stating, "We’re extremely pleased to report record non-holiday quarter revenue and earnings and quarterly cash flow from operations of $2.3 billion.  Looking ahead to the fourth fiscal quarter of 2009, we expect revenue in the range of about $8.7 billion to $8.9 billion and we expect diluted earnings per share in the range of about $1.18 to $1.23."

Apple will release its latest version of OS X, Snow Leopard, in September.  New iPods are also expected for the fall.



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Great Results; Poor Reporting?
By TomZ on 7/22/2009 10:18:17 AM , Rating: 5
These are obviously great results for Apple. But I wonder about your reporting, Jason. Just a few days ago, you posted an article talking about Q2 results and now Q3 results are out. That's confusing to say the least.

Also in the prior article you were talking a lot of gloom-and-doom for Apple, which was clearly far off the mark. What's going on over there?




RE: Great Results; Poor Reporting?
By JasonMick (blog) on 7/22/2009 10:48:20 AM , Rating: 2
These are results are for Apple's fiscal quarter 3, which is calendar quarter 2 . This is the second quarter of the year. I use calendar quarters of the year in my financial stories, as I consider them less confusing to readers than fiscal quarters (some companies are already in fiscal 2010). I added a note to further clarify this for anyone, like yourself, who is confused.

As to the previous Apple article, I offered two divergent analyst views of Apple's results -- one slightly negative, another very negative. The predictions of major analyst firms -- Gartner, IDC, etc. -- about the activity of tech industry giants are significant, but you'd be silly to think they're gospel -- they're just educated guesses. And this time it appears both guessed wrong and Apple beat predictions. I think on the contrary it shows good character that I'm equally willing to report on claims that Apple is slipping and news that Apple is gaining.

Sorry you didn't like the story!


By omnicronx on 7/22/2009 10:58:07 AM , Rating: 2
I liked your article Jason, although I didn't think anyone used the word 'nign' anymore ;)


RE: Great Results; Poor Reporting?
By psonice on 7/22/2009 11:00:22 AM , Rating: 3
I fully agree with TomZ, this was very poor reporting. In the last article your headline was:
quote:
Apple Computer Sales Slow, May Have Dropped to Fifth Place


And the strap line:
quote:
No matter how you cut it, Q2 2009 wasn't great for Apple's sales


I realise you were reporting on analysts predictions, but it's not exactly clear there is it? If you re-read the last article, you'll see how it comes across: apple's results are terrible, and analysts are backing that up.

Perhaps a headline more like "Analysts predict..." followed by a piece about what the analysts are saying would have worked better than declaring that sales have slowed and they're going down fast?

If you want daily tech to have a reputation for good journalism, report the facts, not an interpretation based on those facts. And ignore what all the fanboys are saying, whichever side of the fence they are, they're a vocal (and idiotic) minority.


RE: Great Results; Poor Reporting?
By omnicronx on 7/22/2009 11:16:10 AM , Rating: 5
While I was not the biggest fan of his last article (as the comments show), I don't see how you can fault Jason for reporting what all other analysts seemed to agree with, and that was that at the very best Apples numbers would be sub par compared to their usual.
quote:
If you want daily tech to have a reputation for good journalism, report the facts, not an interpretation based on those facts.
And that's why he was called out on his last article, that being said this article seems to report the facts, and unlike the previous article, it leaves it up to the reader to decide. That being said ALL NEWS is an interpretation of the facts, regardless of bias. Heck, everything you read is based on someones interpretation of the facts, whether it be an encyclopedia, magazine, newspaper or online news article.


RE: Great Results; Poor Reporting?
By psonice on 7/22/2009 11:35:57 AM , Rating: 2
Yeah, I agree with most of that. What I take issue with is the way analyst forecasts were presented more or less as fact in the last article (or at least that's how it came across). What we're left with is pretty much "Apple sales are terrible" followed by "Apple sales are great" just a few days later. Just a few more words would have clarified it, and made it "Apple's predicted sales are terrible" at least.

I know that there's always some interpretation/bias/etc, and that's often a good thing actually. The thing that makes it good though is actually being right, or at least making some good points. Putting an opinion down as fact, then having it proven thoroughly wrong, just isn't a good thing. And a reminder of what I'm talking about: "No matter how you cut it, Q2 2009 wasn't great for Apple's sales". The first line of the article, unqualified, no mention of predicted sales, just a stated fact.

I don't know what's happened to Jason here, he used to write a lot of apple related articles and get accused of being a fanboy in the comments. Now it seems we get articles like the one above, which is pretty good, but then we get articles that are really critical of apple (sometimes unfairly I feel). Maybe he just needs to get back to what he's good at and stop reading the comments :)


RE: Great Results; Poor Reporting?
By stonemetal on 7/22/2009 1:38:26 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Now the major firms are announcing their sales predictions for Apple's Q2 2009, and no matter how you cut it, sales are starting to cool for the company.


You mean here were he says major firms announce predictions of apple sales, not actual sales or info from apple?


RE: Great Results; Poor Reporting?
By psonice on 7/22/2009 5:12:11 PM , Rating: 2
You mean where he says that firms are announcing predictions, then says "no matter how you cut it, sales are starting to cool for the company"? Yeah, there. :) That's what I'm unhappy about, he starts off right by discussing predictions, but then takes a wrong turn with 'no matter how you cut it' (it ended up cut a whole different way) and heads back home with 'sales are starting to cool for the company' (analysts predicted it, but it didn't really happen).

Anyway, enough semantics. Jason, if you're reading, please go and write some more articles, but keep them a bit more on the level. Sorry if I'm a bit harsh with my criticism :)


RE: Great Results; Poor Reporting?
By omnicronx on 7/22/2009 10:49:46 AM , Rating: 2
To be fair those were not Apples Q2 results, those were American share results for all companies put together by independent sources.

Can't disagree with you though, I said a few days ago not to trust those Q2 results which was the quarter before the iPhone and Mac hardware refreshes.

I really thought Apple would lose considerable share this year, but once again Apple has surprised us all.. Does not say a lot about how the public spends their money during a downturn. Looks like many people did not learn their lesson on overspending over the past year.


By robinthakur on 7/27/2009 8:30:54 AM , Rating: 2
Apple owns the high-end around 91% (by price I stress!) The high end has typically not been hit by the slowdown quite as much, therefore their spending power is not going to be as badly hit (they don't need to buy everything on credit) That and Apple's brand loyalty is unsurpassed by, well, anyone elses' so I think that explains a lot. Mind you, as long as you have kept your job in the current turmoil and your wage has remained unchanged (i.e. no pay rise), then besides the lack of credit, what's changed? Bottom line is that nobody *needs* to buy a new Mac or iPhone 3GS, they choose to because they want to.


By encryptkeeper on 7/23/2009 5:02:39 PM , Rating: 2
Any ideas on if Apple will announce new iPod models for September, like they've been doing the last few years? My Classic is starting to go screwy.


Yes
By damianrobertjones on 7/22/2009 10:54:57 AM , Rating: 2
Did we do something wrong?

The other day my lady friend went along to iTunes and purchased a backing track for a few pennies etc. She then asked me to put that track into Cool edit so she could sing along etc.

Opps. DRM. We then purchased the same damn song from amazon and we then completed the task. She can now play that song, as I can I, on my laptop, desktop, mobile phone and car with a standard sd card.

I'll admit that the iTunes interface/app isn't that bad, but if I'm going to pay, I want to PLAY the damn song on whatever I like.

Oh well. (She's not planning on buying any songs from iTunes now)




RE: Yes
By Narbo on 7/22/2009 11:21:39 AM , Rating: 1
The vast majority of stuff on iTunes is DRM free these days. Further to that the interface TELLS you if the song has DRM or not. (iTunes+ == No DRM)

Please troll elsewhere.


RE: Yes
By damianrobertjones on 7/22/2009 11:51:52 AM , Rating: 4
"troll is someone who posts controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community"

The main point of my post is that she won't be spending any money on iTunes anymore.. the article refers to apples profits.

Hardly being a troll.


RE: Yes
By Narbo on 7/22/2009 12:12:08 PM , Rating: 2
You said that your girlfriend bought a song from the iTunes store, it had DRM and you are going to never buy anything from the iTunes store because of it.

While it is certainly your prerogative to take your money elsewhere you should not be blaming Apple for your (or your girlfriends) inability to read what you were buying especially since the interface tells you if the file is DRM "protected" or not.

Your post essentially implies that ALL music on iTunes is DRM ridden and people should not use the store because of this which is a massive over generalization since in reality the opposite is the case.

Don't get me wrong, I'm no fan of the iTunes store either (overpriced) but I see your post as inflammatory (e.g: a troll) since it's based on a huge factual error.


RE: Yes
By JasonMick (blog) on 7/22/2009 12:36:21 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
You said that your girlfriend bought a song from the iTunes store

He said his "lady friend", not his girl friend, that could be a big difference -- just ask SNL's Lady's Man.


RE: Yes
By foolsgambit11 on 7/24/2009 2:05:23 PM , Rating: 2
Or The Dude.

"And stay away from my special.. from my f***ing lady friend, man!"


RE: Yes
By damianrobertjones on 7/22/2009 1:57:35 PM , Rating: 2
I can see where you're coming from.

I apologise.

(Yeah, I know that only a percentage are drm'd)


RE: Yes
By Narbo on 7/22/2009 3:05:05 PM , Rating: 2
It's all good. :)

I know I come off as a dick sometimes. Damned anonymous internet syndrome...


RE: Yes
By PhoenixKnight on 7/22/2009 9:48:22 PM , Rating: 1
She's not his special lady. She's his fucking lady friend.


RE: Yes
By Shadowself on 7/22/2009 1:31:38 PM , Rating: 2
It is extremely unlikely the song included DRM.

The more likely scenario is that the song was in the AAC format and your friend's system can't read AAC audio tracks. I don't know the particulars of the "Cool edit" system so I can't say for sure, but I'd start looking there rather than say it's DRM.

Another place to look is at bit rates. A lot of MP3s out there are 128 versus the current standard for Apple's AAC files which is 256.

Apple believes that AAC gives better quality at the same bit rate as MP3. I believe most people can't tell the difference so for most people the AAC over MP3 concept that Apple pushes makes no sense.


RE: Yes
By damianrobertjones on 7/22/2009 1:42:18 PM , Rating: 2
Good points. She 'exported' or so I assume, the song 'to mp3 from within iTunes and passed it over on an sd card. Drag, drop.. static.

Either way, I should pay more attention to whats she's doing to help out. I don't seem to have these problems but I usually but the original cds.


Partnership of the Decade?
By BSMonitor on 7/22/2009 2:35:49 PM , Rating: 2
Partnership of the Decade?

Call that 2.6 Million Intel processors sold as well.
Put this article side by side with the failing AMD and prospering Intel articles... You want to talk about missed oppurtunity.

So, about 8-9 million Intel processors per year. Welcome back Dell!? Intel and Apple are definately the match made in hell. Intel wants an Intel exclusive OEM. Apple wants to offer a very standardized platform... Its like they were destined to be.

Mixed feelings about it though. OS X with the support of Intel and Apple could be a serious competitor to Microsoft and Windows... I mean what happened to all those flavors of Linux we heard so much about at the end of the 90s?!? Not saying they are not out there, but OS X has to be the highest grossing Linux based OS now, right? 2.6 million units per quarter?




RE: Partnership of the Decade?
By Pirks on 7/22/2009 2:38:20 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
OS X has to be the highest grossing Linux based OS now
LOL :)))) And they call it a "tech" site! :))


By tayhimself on 7/22/2009 4:03:13 PM , Rating: 2
Haha DT is a tech site, just a right-wing (i can use a screwdriver) type tech site. Anandtech is totally different, I have tremendous respecto for Anand and Johan.


RE: Partnership of the Decade?
By captainBOB on 7/22/2009 4:56:37 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
OS X has to be the highest grossing Linux based OS now, right?


No its not. Because its not even Linux based.


RE: Partnership of the Decade?
By omnicronx on 7/22/2009 6:42:19 PM , Rating: 2
Perhaps they think if they say it enough it will come true, as this somehow comes up in just about every Apple article.

I don't know how many times it has to be said, Mac is based off of BSD, not Linux

Ok.. I think I need a coffee..


Always amazing..
By PascalT on 7/22/2009 1:22:29 PM , Rating: 2
...to see millions of people buying overly expensive computers like Macs. It just goes to show the power of catchy (and false) marketing and pretty shiny plastic.




RE: Always amazing..
By robinthakur on 7/27/2009 10:38:47 AM , Rating: 2
The last time I checked, Dell sell those Studio pc's complete with Shiny plastic and large marketing spend. They're even very cheap. So what's the issue with Apple?

I like the part where you assume the people that buy Apple are ignorant. In my experience any time you have to part with money you earned, you do your research, as I will generously assume these people did. Its just that their word-of-mouth research probably revealed a load of stupid people telling them "Vista Sucks"...Maybe. For most people, A mac is fine, it does what you expect it to, and it looks pretty. Do you have a problem with that?


Once again proved wrong ....
By crystal clear on 7/23/2009 2:08:00 AM , Rating: 2
Market research firm IDC & Gartner publish a lot of thrash that should not be believed or trusted.

All their reports/statistics are plain guess work & are repeatedly proved wrong in their predictions.

Apple is the most recent example to prove my point.

I repeatedly have given my opinions in the past on analyst/market research firms,the last being this -

Reports meant for the thrash can
By crystal clear on 7/18/09, Rating: 2
By crystal clear on 7/18/2009 7:05:17 AM , Rating: 2

http://www.dailytech.com/Apple+Computer+Sales+Slow...

No reputed blogger or journalist should quote their figures/reports,becuase if they do so they only make a fool of themselves.




Crazy Apple!!!
By amyli on 7/23/2009 4:26:45 AM , Rating: 2
iPhone 626% increase, iPod Touch 130% increase - crazy statistics!
I consider Apple benefit from iPhone's growth, and iPhone benefit from App Store which bunch all apple product except lower iPod devices, I expect Apple's future is better because App store's attraction and iPod touch's wifi phone.
BTW, I recommend favorite Mac video & DVD tool - iFunia(http://www.ifunia.com)




Begging for mercy
By tayhimself on 7/22/09, Rating: -1
RE: Begging for mercy
By invidious on 7/22/2009 10:40:53 AM , Rating: 1
The smallest and cheapest LCD monitor on Apple's site is a 24" for $900, the most most popular highest rated 24" on newegg is $300 and it has a perfect 5/5 consumer reviews.

If you think higher price does means higher quality I've got a $5000 paper clip for you. It is 100% virus proof and never crashes.


RE: Begging for mercy
By omnicronx on 7/22/2009 10:59:28 AM , Rating: 2
Stop feeding the trolls..


RE: Begging for mercy
By Icehearted on 7/22/2009 11:59:58 AM , Rating: 1
You just watch. The iClip will be HUGE!


RE: Begging for mercy
By crleap on 7/22/2009 12:15:23 PM , Rating: 1
Keep in mind the average newegg "reviewer" is an idiot.


RE: Begging for mercy
By Icehearted on 7/22/2009 12:42:16 PM , Rating: 2
That's not far from true. I've seen quite a few positive reviews by people that don't even have the item they're reviewing "but can't wait to try it out".

That's not exactly bright.


RE: Begging for mercy
By theapparition on 7/22/2009 1:05:47 PM , Rating: 2
And there's plenty of negative reviews from others who don't have the products or don't know how to use them.

For example, some people buying SDHC cards and then complaining that they don't work in thier SD devices.

So take any user reviews with a grain of salt.


RE: Begging for mercy
By TomZ on 7/22/2009 3:23:35 PM , Rating: 2
Maybe so, maybe not. But I've found a lot of useful and informative reviews on Newegg. You can find out information about a product that the manufacturer is not telling you (limitations, etc.).

Also, if a product has a lot of ratings, you can generally determine whether the product is decent or not just by looking at the overall ratings profile - the percentage of each rating that is 5-star, 4-star, etc.


RE: Begging for mercy
By PhoenixKnight on 7/22/2009 1:00:23 PM , Rating: 4
Don't the Apple Cinema monitors use IPS panels? The most popular monitor on newegg uses a TN panel. Huge difference in price and quality between IPS and TN panels. Granted, the Apple displays are still at least $100 more than comparable IPS displays from other vendors, but at least you can use comparable technologies to make your point.


RE: Begging for mercy
By erple2 on 7/22/2009 1:34:56 PM , Rating: 2
It's very hard to find an LED backlit 24" LCD screen that's also not a TN panel for less than $900 anywhere. The Mac one is actually not that bad of a deal. HP's version costs 1200 or so. Though I'm not sure if the Mac panel is IPS or PVA type.

You can't directly compare the screen size with other ones. It the same argument as wondering why a BMW 7 series costs so much more than a Chevy Aveo. Sure they both can comfortably seat 4 adults. They both have wheels, and engine and have windows that go up and down. They both have airbags. They both have Antilock brakes. So why pay so much more for the BMW?


RE: Begging for mercy
By Pirks on 7/22/2009 1:40:30 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
why a BMW 7 series costs so much more than a Chevy Aveo
*DING DING DING*

downraters, here we come! :)))


RE: Begging for mercy
By noirsoft on 7/22/2009 3:45:31 PM , Rating: 2
Wrong analogy.

yes, Apple uses higher-priced components. That doesn't mean higher-quality components. If it brings no benefit to the user, then the item is overpriced.

It's not Apple as BMW versus Windows's Chevy. It's Apple as Monster Cable versus Windows as the bargain brand that does exactly the same thing.


RE: Begging for mercy
By TomZ on 7/22/2009 5:52:45 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
yes, Apple uses higher-priced components
You sure about that? Last I checked, Apple (a) was using the same commodity components as everyone else, and (b) had similarly-high margins (if not higher) than everyone else.

I think the idea that Apple uses higher-quality components is mostly inferreed from their marketing and is not based on reality. I mean, have you ever seen a tear-down analysis that showed an Apple product using a unique or particularly high-quality component? I never have.


RE: Begging for mercy
By noirsoft on 7/22/2009 6:16:54 PM , Rating: 2
Well, in the discussion of flat-panels above, there was talk that the tech Apple used was higher-priced. Also, the aluminum bodies, etc. cost more than the typical plastic bodies of bargain PCs.


RE: Begging for mercy
By Pirks on 7/22/2009 6:28:10 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
have you ever seen a tear-down analysis that showed an Apple product using a unique or particularly high-quality component? I never have.
That's because you never read Anand's reviews :P Example one: special small form factor packaging for MacBook Air's CPU. Example two: special lidless Nehalem Xeons in 2009 MacPros.

Learn basics, boy, if you want your barking at me look any serious ;-)


RE: Begging for mercy
By kmmatney on 7/22/2009 6:42:07 PM , Rating: 2
You would have to put the Li-ion polymer battery (which gives the MacBook Pro 8 hours of battery life) in that category as well.


RE: Begging for mercy
By Pirks on 7/22/2009 6:58:27 PM , Rating: 2
No, your argument about battery probably won't work because there are non-replaceable (possibly li-poly even?) battery designs in PC notebook world as well, Dell Adamo for example.


RE: Begging for mercy
By Pirks on 7/22/2009 7:06:58 PM , Rating: 2
Yeah, that's right, just checked the specs - Dell Adamo stole non-removable li-poly battery idea from Apple too, so this is not unique anymore. Alas :) Too bad Dell was unable to steal performance and light weight of Apple's gear but who cares really...


RE: Begging for mercy
By KoolAidMan1 on 7/22/2009 8:17:17 PM , Rating: 3
You forgot about price and performance; the Adamo is also significantly slower at a higher price than the Macbook Air.

Its interesting that whenever a PC manufacturer tries to make something to compete with Apple in terms of build quality, size, weight, keyboard, trackpad, battery life, and horsepower (meaning cramming a lot of horsepower into such a thin and light enclosure, not a 8-12lb plastic behemoth), it comes out to more expensive than and sometimes slower than what Apple's notebooks cost. On top of this, nobody comes close to Apple's trackpad. Fortunately Lenovo notebooks also have nice keyboards, otherwise Macbooks would be unique there as well.

Fortunately this is why there's choice. If these things aren't important to you or you're on a budget, there are other notebooks out there, and if you value a good physical interface and intelligently made accessories then there are Macs and high-end Lenovos. Enough people seem to value these things based on Apple's balance sheet. It goes against years of typical messageboard wisdom that a cheaply made but inexpensive Dell or HP notebook should be moneymakers while premium products should be floundering.


RE: Begging for mercy
By Pirks on 7/22/2009 8:23:03 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
You forgot about price and performance
Repeating second time just for you: "Too bad Dell was unable to steal performance and light weight of Apple's gear but who cares really"

Read my post above for the first instance of the same phrase :)


RE: Begging for mercy
By KoolAidMan1 on 7/22/2009 10:19:46 PM , Rating: 2
Whoops.

Ok, you forgot about price, there, how's that? :)


RE: Begging for mercy
By Pirks on 7/22/2009 10:51:52 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
you forgot about price
I was gentle with local "PCs are always cheaper and faster than Macs!" kind of Apple bashing morons :) Didn't want to scare them too much, hehe :))


RE: Begging for mercy
By KoolAidMan1 on 7/22/2009 6:51:14 PM , Rating: 2
Their displays are more expensive than what most other manufacturers will use. The 24" iMac uses an H-IPS panel while the Dell XPS One uses a cheaper MVA panel. Note that both computers cost the same at $1500 while the iMac uses a significantly better display, has a faster CPU, a faster GPU, and double the HD storage. Again, all for the same price.

Where Apple's higher margins really come into play is that the majority of their systems use higher margin mobile and high-end workstation parts. The bulk of their machines, the Mac Mini, the Macbook, the Macbook Pro, the iMac, all use mobile Intel Core 2 CPUs. They buy these already high-margin parts in massive bulk, driving profit margins even higher. On the other end of the spectrum you have the Mac Pro which uses Core i7 Xeons, also with higher profit margins.

The fact that Apple's product line is missing (and I hate this) desktops that use standard desktop CPUs is a contributing factor to how Apple manages its profit margins. Consumer level desktop CPU have much lower margins than mobile and workstation CPUs, and I'm betting that its one reason why Apple doesn't offer a "Cube" style Mac with a consumer-level desktop CPU and PCI expansion (I would buy one in a heartbeat). Its a good thing that the iMac is a great computer, because otherwise I'd only be interested in their laptops. The Mac Mini is trash and the Mac Pro is way too much computer for my needs (I don't expect I'll ever need a Xeon in my PCs or my Macs).


RE: Begging for mercy
By Pirks on 7/22/2009 6:12:03 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
Apple uses higher-priced components. That doesn't mean higher-quality components
If you knew some very basic facts about CPUs you'd know what is the quality difference between $183 Core 2 Duo E8400 and $530 Core 2 Duo T9900 CPUs.

Of course tech illiterate people like you don't understand how come two CPUs with exactly the same speed/cache rating have drastically different prices.


RE: Begging for mercy
By noirsoft on 7/23/2009 2:52:23 AM , Rating: 2
Pirks calling me tech illiterate. That made my day. Of course, Pirks is just plain illiterate. Or, maybe that should be iLliterate (c) Apple.

Okay, Pirks. Here's the part where I wave around my techno-penis. I have (admittedly, only as a class project) actually implemented a simple MIPS CPU in an FPGA. Also, I scored top marks in my graduate-level advanced computer architecture class (we began with superscalar architectures and went on through design of caches, out-of-order executrion and bus design)

I understand very much the difference between the CPUs, and I stand by my statement that there is no practical difference in performance for the average consumer, or even the average power user. Only those who want to brag about owning the "top of the line" or have their egos attached to their choice of computer think it's worth the price.

Now please respond with a typical Pirks punchline so we can all have a good laugh before bed.


RE: Begging for mercy
By Pirks on 7/23/2009 3:34:32 AM , Rating: 2
What punchline? If you don't understand why T9900 is better than E8400 and hence priced much higher, that's your own problem, I'm not lecturing you about CPU basics.

I've seen another penis waver here before, named fsardis, who was too stupid to right-click on OS X Dock but claimed he was PhD or something. You look all the same, penis wavers :-)


RE: Begging for mercy
By themaster08 on 7/23/2009 7:20:31 AM , Rating: 2
The only real difference is the former is a mobile processor whilst the latter is a desktop. So power consumption/heat is the only major factor here.

Although the downside is that the T9900 has a lower FSB than the E8400, at 1066MHz as opposed to the 1333MHz on the E8400. Thus memory bandwidth takes a slight performance hit on the mobile processor. So the cheaper E8400 would be a better processor depending upon circumstances.


RE: Begging for mercy
By Pirks on 7/23/2009 7:51:20 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
the former is a mobile processor whilst the latter is a desktop
Thanks captain Obvious :)
quote:
T9900 has a lower FSB than the E8400
But higher clock which makes them equal performance-wise.
quote:
depending upon circumstances
Yep, depending on $$$ available in your account :)))


RE: Begging for mercy
By themaster08 on 7/23/2009 5:11:31 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
But higher clock which makes them equal performance-wise.

The higher FSB in the E8400 would be more beneficial to overall performance than an ever so slightly higher clock speed.

quote:
Yep, depending on $$$ available in your account :)))

Not really what I had in mind. Perhaps more to do with the compatability, case design and energy efficient systems, but there you have it.


RE: Begging for mercy
By Pirks on 7/23/2009 7:48:18 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
The higher FSB in the E8400 would be more beneficial to overall performance
I don't believe it till I see benchmarks.


RE: Begging for mercy
By KoolAidMan1 on 7/22/2009 6:39:31 PM , Rating: 3
You can't compare an LCD display with a TN panel against one with an H-IPS panel. One is of considerably higher quality than the other and is priced accordingly.

The 24" ACD is actually priced very well for a display of that kind. NEC's 2490WUXi which uses the same panel is roughly $1200, difference is that the ACD comes with integrated webcam, speakers, and is LED backlit. The only real downside to the ACD is that it uses a mini-displayport connector, so you'll need a DVI adapter if you want to use it with something other than a Mac made in the last year, and you can just go to monoprice for something like that. Otherwise it is very well priced for what you are getting.

That said, if you want an inferior TN or MVA display, you're more than welcome to buy that as well, that's why there are different choices at different prices. All my monitors are IPS and I'm fine with paying the premium for them, but that's just me, I understand if they are either out of someone's budget or they don't care about good image quality.


RE: Begging for mercy
By Narbo on 7/23/2009 11:17:15 AM , Rating: 2
Actually Monoprice does sell mini-display port to DVI/VGA/HDMI adapters (~$10) because I have a DVI one from them. Works flawlessly too. :)

No dual link DVI though, if you want/need > 1920 resolution you still need to bend over and buy the (finnicky) Apple one for $99.


Really...
By amanojaku on 7/22/09, Rating: -1
RE: Really...
By omnicronx on 7/22/2009 10:44:30 AM , Rating: 4
1) Right from his article "The iPhone news was so good it overshadowed the decline in iPod sales by 7 percent to 10.2 million units. Perhaps some iPod users turned to the iPhone."

2)Mac sales did not decline, which makes me wonder if you even read your own source. "Now, laptop sales were up 12.9% to 1.75 million units". Not to mention the article does not even mention Mac desktops although according to other sources, the numbers were also up slightly.


RE: Really...
By omnicronx on 7/22/2009 10:45:18 AM , Rating: 2
Guess it does mention desktop sales, although your source does not seem to align with others.


RE: Really...
By 67STANG on 7/22/09, Rating: 0
RE: Really...
By Pirks on 7/22/2009 1:19:06 PM , Rating: 5
quote:
Why would anyone spend $1,000 on a 13" MacBook Pro, it's pretty much just a netbook
Learn the basics about differences between Core 2 Duo and Atom CPUs before posting such a drivel.


RE: Really...
By captainBOB on 7/22/2009 4:53:19 PM , Rating: 5
For once I actually agree.

Please if you're going to diss Macs for being overpriced pcs then do it properly. :)


RE: Really...
By TomZ on 7/22/09, Rating: 0
RE: Really...
By Pirks on 7/22/09, Rating: 0
RE: Really...
By 67STANG on 7/22/2009 7:37:34 PM , Rating: 2
It wouldn't matter if Apple was going to die anyhow, Microsoft would just save them again like they did when they gave them $200,000,000.00 in 1997.

Ah, just think. If it weren't for PC's, Apple would have been gone a decade ago. That's right, iBankrupt.


RE: Really...
By Pirks on 7/22/09, Rating: 0
RE: Really...
By sebmel on 7/23/2009 7:49:45 PM , Rating: 2
A quick search shows that in on the 6th of August, 1997, Microsoft invested $150m in Apple as a gesture and received non-voting shares which they sold shortly afterwards. At the time Apple didn't need the investment, they had over $4 billion in the cash in the bank.

Microsoft ought to have held on to them because Apple has done much better than Microsoft since Steve Jobs returned to the company. Microsoft's share price hasn't grown at all in the last 10 years... in fact, that's rather charitable.

Share prices to the nearest dollar:
Apple 10 years ago: $14
Apple today: $158

Microsoft 10 years ago: $45
Microsoft today: $26

In other news today, Microsoft announced that the slump continues. The Redmond, Seattle, company announced that sales are down this quarter 17%, while after tax profits are down 29%. Microsoft's shares tumbled 7% in after hours trading.

Thus, 2009 sees Microsoft complete its worst fiscal year ever... and Apple's completes its best.


RE: Really...
By 67STANG on 7/22/09, Rating: 0
RE: Really...
By Pirks on 7/22/2009 7:35:22 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
I can buy a 13.3" C2D notebook for $800.00
Yeah, I can buy a bicycle for $50 too, but we were discussing cars, not bicycles.


RE: Really...
By 67STANG on 7/22/09, Rating: 0
RE: Really...
By Pirks on 7/22/2009 7:45:58 PM , Rating: 2
The fact that you tried to hide crappy specs of your $800 wonder suggests that there's much more to it than just extra 0.3" :P


RE: Really...
By 67STANG on 7/22/2009 10:26:22 PM , Rating: 3
Nothing to hide:

C2D @ 2.0Ghz
3GB RAM
250GB HDD
13.3" display

$780

Btw, it's a Samsung. If those specs are crappy, then the MB Pro is just as crappy-- and more expensive.


RE: Really...
By Pirks on 7/22/2009 10:34:26 PM , Rating: 3
You "forgot" about display/backlight, size, thickness, weight, battery life, keyboard/backlight and touchpad specs, no wonder why :))) I can see through you!

Can you give me the precise model/number of that $780 Samsung? A link to where you found it online maybe?

Or are you going to hide it so that people may think it's "the same" as 13" MBP? ;)


RE: Really...
By 67STANG on 7/23/2009 5:21:09 PM , Rating: 2
Lmao. You just don't give up.

Ok, here you go: Samsung Q310 34G. See right through that.

I'm sure you'll call me on the fact that it doesn't have a pretty aluminum body, so I guess I lose?


RE: Really...
By Pirks on 7/23/2009 9:53:16 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I'm sure you'll call me on the fact that it doesn't have a pretty aluminum body, so I guess I lose?
Haha, you wish it were just about aluminum. Check out backlit keyboard and LED screen backlight first, then thickness, then battery life, then faster CPU on MBP... the list goes on and on. No wonder Samsung is so cheap. There's even no need to lie to me about its price (you swapped 7 and 8 in your number "by accident", hehehe :)))


RE: Really...
By 67STANG on 7/24/2009 1:59:57 AM , Rating: 2
Or how it has more RAM? No, I didn't swap the 8 and the 7. It's $780.


RE: Really...
By Pirks on 7/24/2009 4:23:52 PM , Rating: 1
It's $870

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001I45TAI

You posted no link to your price, so see ya next thread losa :)

P.S. additional gig of RAM is a few bucks, so hardly an argument here :P


RE: Really...
By kmmatney on 7/22/2009 6:29:38 PM , Rating: 2
Well, I've been an Apple hater for almost 20 years, but I recently lost my work cell phone (a cheapo crap 4-year free model) and they asked me to get a smartphone. After spending some time in the store testing them out, the iPhone really blew away everything else. It's a frickin awesome business phone - it synched (though the internet) all of my Outlook email, contacts and calendar automatically, and also easily handles 2 personal email accounts. I hardly use my computer now to check email. There are some great apps out there for it as well, and it has an amazing user interface. I decided to pay for it with my own money so I can keep it, and not have to give it back (3GS 16 GB model). The nice thing is that my company pays for the service. It has also replaced my iPod for the most part. My only regret is perhaps not purchasing the 32GB model. This phone really deserves all the praise it has gotten - it's like a men among boys in the cell phone arena.


RE: Really...
By crystal clear on 7/23/2009 2:19:06 AM , Rating: 2
Apple said it sold 2.6 million Macs, up 4 percent from a year ago, and 5.2 million iPhones in the June quarter.

Although Mac units rose, revenue in the segment fell 8 percent from a year ago as average selling prices came down, a trend seen throughout the PC industry.

Cash and marketable securities totaled more than $31 billion, one of the biggest cash hoards in all of technology.

http://www.reuters.com/article/ousivMolt/idUSTRE56...


RE: Really...
By psonice on 7/22/2009 11:56:16 AM , Rating: 2
You think the figures presented in an article on a news site (one owned by microsoft too, for irony bonus) are more reliable than the figures apple are reporting? Just a reminder: apple's figures are the ones they're reporting to the stock market, they're legally bound to report truthfully, and the figures are audited by an external company.

I know that sometimes companies do lie about these things (hello enron), but I'd say you're being a bit paranoid there :)


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