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New code added to iTunes database file prevents iPods from being used with any program other than iTunes.

Less than two weeks ago Apple revamped its entire iPod lineup along with introducing a new iPod model, the iPod touch. The product line update consisted of new features and designs for Apple’s iPod brand. The update, though, shouldn’t be taken entirely at face value; Apple also managed to sneak in some code that locks the new iPods to only work with iTunes.

Apple has locked out other digital content management software by adding “SHA1 hashes” to the beginning of the iTunesDB file, the database file which keeps track of digital content stored on the iPods. The enhanced code locks the iTunes database to one specific iPod and also prevents any modifications to it. If an attempt is made to either change the database file to a different iPod or to modify the file, the iPod reports “0 songs” are stored on the device. What this means is that essentially only iTunes can add or delete content from the iPod.  

The most plausible reason for locking then new iPods to iTunes is that Apple is becoming conscious of the growing threat that other music services are offering. Since many music labels are dumping DRM, it is now easier than ever for music services like Rhapsody to load non-DRM music directly to iPods through its own player; meaning iTunes is taken out of the picture as the digital content handler for iPods.

Locking iPods to iTunes effectively inhibits other media players from handling content for iPods. This move also prevents other music services from truly competing with the iTunes store and maintains Apple’s dominance.  

Apple has been very aggressive in the past to ensure that nothing changes the relationship between iPods and iTunes. Three years ago RealNetworks attempted to create an alliance between Apple and RealNetwork that would allow Real to license Apple’s Fairplay DRM technology so that it could sell files compatible with iPods.

Real’s ambitions turned out to be a failure when its talks with Apple failed, and so the company decided to simply reverse engineer Apple's FairPlay to create Harmony technology, which allowed music sold via RealNetworks to work on Apple’s iPods along with a plethora of other portable devices.

Apple nearly immediately issued a scathing response, and stated that Real’s move violated the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA). Apple also issued a firmware update to its iPods which blocked iPod access to Harmony files. At the time Apple said it was “stunned” by RealNetwork’s moves and accused it of using "tactics and ethics of a hacker."

Do you have an iPod but run Linux?  Tough luck says Apple.  Windows users who prefer to use other management tools, such as Winamp, will also need to use iTunes exclusively for now as well.

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ah well...
By Gul Westfale on 9/16/2007 6:02:30 PM , Rating: 5
... yet another reason not to buy an ipod.

i recently replaced my already broken (and yet just 1 year old) nano with the much bigger (in terms of storage), better featured, and yet cheaper creative zen, and now i'm kicking myself for having been a fashion victim and having wasted money on an apple product. never again...

RE: ah well...
By Dactyl on 9/16/2007 7:39:36 PM , Rating: 5
If Apple doesn't want my business, that's fine by me.

I want a player that shows up as an external hard drive when I plug it in to the USB port. I don't want to use a perverse proprietary connector and be forced to run anybody's software.

I put music onto my MP3 player with Winamp, or with the program I wrote for that purpose, or by dragging the files into the folder.

I doubt Apple will release a product in my lifetime that I feel I will "need" to have (and therefore, I will never buy an Apple product). If I can pass up on Bioshock because of the DRM, giving up Apple hardware is easy.

RE: ah well...
By Gul Westfale on 9/16/2007 7:50:44 PM , Rating: 5
there should be a 12-step program to help long-time apple customers get away from them.

RE: ah well...
By imperator3733 on 9/16/2007 8:55:17 PM , Rating: 2

RE: ah well...
By retrospooty on 9/16/2007 9:12:30 PM , Rating: 2
"there should be a 12-step program to help long-time apple customers get away from them."

That is a great idea... Of course the thing with a 12 step is admitting there is a problem is the key, and most Apple fans would never see that Apple is not the end all be all of the electronics industry.

RE: ah well...
By Gul Westfale on 9/16/2007 10:09:06 PM , Rating: 1


RE: ah well...
By Omega215D on 9/16/2007 10:12:11 PM , Rating: 1
As much as I dislike the iPod it is simple to use and it just works which is why people don't want to let it go. The sad thing is that "it just works" might not apply to the new gen of iPods due to their constant UI lag.

My Clix2 seems to be drawing a bit of attention to it.

RE: ah well...
By redbone75 on 9/16/2007 10:44:33 PM , Rating: 5
As much as I dislike the iPod it is simple to use and it just works which is why people don't want to let it go.

What could be simpler than just dragging and dropping files from your computer to your player? By no means do I mean to or intend to offend, but I've heard that little shtick used in Apple's defense before and frankly I'm sick and tired of it. I buy Product A, take Product A home, plug Product A into my computer with standard mini USB cable, and copy songs to Product A without having to first download any cumbersome programs. My Zen Vision: M sounds just like Product A. Oh, and it works for many video files as well, considering my ZVM supports so many more codecs out the box. This is just another way of Apple sticking it to their own customers. If I buy music from wherever, I want to be able to listen to it on MY DIGITAL MUSIC PLAYER that I bought for the purpose of LISTENING TO MUSIC ON THE GO.

RE: ah well...
By pheffern on 9/17/2007 9:15:37 AM , Rating: 4
I used to think this too, and had avoided buying an iPod for years because of it - that and the price. After a couple years with a drag and drop Creative player I finally caved and bought a thirty gig iPod this spring. You know what's simpler than drag and drop? Plugging the thing in and having iTunes automatically add any new music you have to it. I have yet to hit 30 GB.

Frankly I have no problem with using iTunes as my main music program - I buy the occasional CD or song from the iTunes store, but mostly I buy CDs and rip them. It's simple and convenient.

Judging by the ratings patterns in this thread, I'm sure I'll bottom out just for saying that I'm happy with my iPod, but that doesn't make it any less true.

RE: ah well...
By omnicronx on 9/17/2007 10:52:10 AM , Rating: 2
You know what's simpler than drag and drop? Plugging the thing in and having iTunes automatically add any new music you have to it. I have yet to hit 30 GB.
In 1998, yes.. in this day and age, most people store most of their music on their pc, even the CD's they own. I for one have almost 200G of music, and although i am tech savy, most of my friends that are not, have 20-60 gigs of music on their computers, plus the videos that could be used on the ipod too.

I am not saying 30 gigs is not enough, but when you have 6 times that, adding all new music in automatically means nothing to me, and thats if you only add music and no video. I have always found drag and drop the easiest way, especially if you have your music organized. The only cool thing i find about itunes is the picking of random music, but i am sure many other programs offer that feature also.

RE: ah well...
By kmmatney on 9/20/2007 2:46:29 PM , Rating: 2
I agree with you. Although I use my Ipod for lots of backups, by dragging and dropping files from windows explorer, I would hate to transfer music that way. Much easier to transfer my music and playlists through Itunes.

I now use Itunes as my main music program, and it does the job quite nicely. The only problem I have with Itunes, is having to install Quicktime - however its easy to get around by uncompressing the Itunes setup file and only installing Itunes and not quicktime. Then you can install QtLite to replace quicktime.

RE: ah well...
By audiomaniaca on 9/20/2007 11:38:14 PM , Rating: 2
I bought a ipod "video" for my wife one year ago. Back then, I thought, wow, it will be cool to watch videos on it. Ok...

Just a while after, we both realized how COMPLEX was to understand how itunes works. Sometimes, you don't even know where the files are in your computer.

Synching it with the device is being sure that all files has been transfered is also a mistery.

One year after, her ipod "video" has never played any video so far. That's because putting mp3 in it is SO complex and hard that I don't even dare to try to make a video in the required apple format and find out how to transfer it using crytunes. To hell with it.

RE: ah well...
By DragonMaster0 on 9/23/2007 10:17:16 AM , Rating: 2
What about using folder syncing? Does the same thing without that resource hog called iTunes.

A computer with QuickTIme quick launch enabled and iTunes installed runs way slower. No wonder Jobs claims that Windows is hell, especially if he installs his slow ported software on it before doing anything else.

RE: ah well...
By Omega215D on 9/17/2007 2:17:33 PM , Rating: 2
I'm not defending Apple for those idiots out there. When people asked to use my mp3 players they keep telling me it's too complicated or requires too many buttons to be pushed and they preferred the iPod's scroll wheel and "clean" UI.

Before I got my Clix2 and Cowon D2 I was starting to think maybe my iRiver H320 was harder to use than the iPod.

RE: ah well...
By ElFenix on 9/20/2007 1:17:39 PM , Rating: 1
If I buy music from wherever, I want to be able to listen to it on MY DIGITAL MUSIC PLAYER that I bought for the purpose of LISTENING TO MUSIC ON THE GO.

then buy a CD player and CDs.

and as for drag and drop, that is far too complicated for many people. a lot of people have no idea about file management, directories, etc. heck, one secretary here, when she wants to copy a file from one place to another, does so through the "Open" dialog in word perfect.

RE: ah well...
By nayy on 9/16/2007 11:53:43 PM , Rating: 5
I totally agree, I will shamefully admit that i was considering buying a nano, but this is a total deal-breaker, so I'll wait for the sansa view
having said that let me break it up for you
Apple couldn't care less about what you and I think, we are not their target market, simply because we have a mind of our own and we don't need them to tell us what is best for us.

For apple this is probably a good business call, most of their users will put up with whatever crap they throw at them.

Finally we all know that this protection will be hacked soon enough, but frankly why bother with their products.

RE: ah well...
By kmmatney on 9/20/2007 2:39:22 PM , Rating: 1
I'm really not an Apple lover, but...

* When I plug my nano into my USB port, it shows up as an external hard drive. You don't need any special software. period. I back up a lot of stuff on my Ipod.

* With my Ipod, I keep a copy of the Yamipod freeare program on it - this program allows me to download or upload music from my Ipod on any computer. You can run Yamipod directly from the Ipod.

* Honestly, ITunes is a pretty sweet program. I hated it at first, but its actually a great program, especially once you trun off the Apple store crap.

I can't comment on DRM stuff, as I've never had an DRM protected music on m Ipod...

RE: ah well...
By audiomaniaca on 9/20/2007 11:26:05 PM , Rating: 2

Someone that thinks just like me! Last time I expressed such opinion in a post here, people went down on me telling that I wasn't smart enough to use such crappy software like the itunes.

itunes sucks very hard. There's nothing compared than a simple windows media device which you can plug using usb or bluetooth and actually SEE the files in the HD or memory.

Instead of that, with the mp3 player from apple, you have to install a PERVERSE software with one of the WORST interfaces and usability ever done,

Itunes is one of the WORST SOFTWARES to use in the world. And who's telling this is someone that uses programs for 3D modeling, protools, flash programming, etc.

Nothing compares to a simple OPEN FOLDER/ DRAG & DROP/ CLOSE FOLDER & play.

RE: ah well...
By abhaxus on 9/16/2007 8:43:17 PM , Rating: 1
Have fun finding a car head unit with integrated (or even available as a separate add on) zen controls... or controls for anything besides the ipod. this reason, above perhaps any other, is why the ipod is the choice of so many people. it has attained critical mass and is so popular that now nothing supports anything else. of course, new model kenwood, jvc, and pioneer head units with USB ports can control flash drives or even portable hard drives. but this is a long way from the fluidity of controls for an ipod on most of the head units with such controls. my panasonic is excellent.

i'm sure there are just as high a percentage of people out there that have had problems with a zen or samsung player dying prematurely.

note: i'm not an apple fanboy by any means... I just laugh when people automatically badmouth apple because they got a broken ipod. of the millions that have been sold, i hear of so few that are broken. I manage a retail store for a local CE chain, and 90% of the ones that people bring back "broken" are actually customer errors. They are the only product that we don't allow returns until we test them out in front of the customer to make sure they really aren't working.

RE: ah well...
By hughlle on 9/16/2007 9:09:31 PM , Rating: 2
Have fun finding a car head unit with integrated (or even available as a separate add on) zen controls... or controls for anything besides the ipod. this reason, above perhaps any other, is why the ipod is the choice of so many people.

near every steroe on the market supports a 3.5mm jack, people don't buy ipods for their incar compatability, as they have nothing for or against the competition. people byu them because they think they look cool, end of

RE: ah well...
By abhaxus on 9/17/2007 3:50:09 PM , Rating: 2
The 3.5mm doesn't bypass the iPod's (or any mp3 player) crappy internal DAC. The difference in sound quality between hooking my nano up to my panasonic through aux and through the ipod connector is incredible.

And a 3.5 mm jack requires that you have the mp3 player where you can reach it, and thus can be seen from outside the car. I keep my nano in the glovebox so I don't have to worry about someone seeing it and breaking into my car.

3.5mm != ipod controls

Although I must say I'm somewhat excited to see what the new samsung bluetooth enabled players can do with bluetooth head units.

RE: ah well...
By FS on 9/16/2007 9:56:32 PM , Rating: 2
I think the add ons, you are mentioning, were the result of ipods' popularity and not the reason . If zen(or sansa or any other) mp3 player was the number one selling device, it would've had the same(or probably a little more or little less) amount of add ons.

RE: ah well...
By stevenplatt on 9/17/2007 8:14:12 AM , Rating: 3
For shame Apple...FOR SHAME!!! Actually I just baught the new 80GB iPod Classic. It works fine, but like with EVERY Apple product, it is oversimplified. I dont want to have to go 4 menus back just to turn on shuffle feature. Apple products are easy to use only for the users that have not used anything else or are beginners. I wanted to purchase a iMac, but I didnt because they cant be upgraded or changed from what Apple decides users need. I want media card readers. I want HD DVD/Blu-Ray playback. I want a TV tuner! Before i bought the iPod i had a samsung flash player which died after 1 week. But just as with iPods, this was isolated incident. I really dont like that Apple is trying yet again to make descicions for you. But also the new ipods do allow Mass Storage use. But not drag and drop. I am very frustrated with apple.

RE: ah well...
By chrish89 on 9/17/2007 6:34:57 PM , Rating: 1
yeah right, creative is synonymous with quality. I've owned several creative players and both broke within mouthes. I've owned 1st gen nano since release with no problems...

RE: ah well...
By Parhel on 9/17/2007 8:19:44 PM , Rating: 3
Dude, you should never put your mp3 player in your mouth.

By daftrok on 9/16/2007 7:21:06 PM , Rating: 2
Creative and Archos all the way!

RE: Grrr
By Lonyo on 9/16/2007 8:16:09 PM , Rating: 1
iAudio all the way :P
flac, ogg, wma, wav, mp3, USB mass storage ftw.
(And folder based navigation)

RE: Grrr
By hobbes7869 on 9/16/2007 8:26:54 PM , Rating: 5
This is why I use the old stand by of my Sony Walkman, Cassette player. No DRM there. Sure, I dont look trendy, but damn, I am already married

RE: Grrr
By Pandamonium on 9/17/2007 2:37:36 AM , Rating: 2
That gave me a good chuckle. +1 for you.

RE: Grrr
By Smurfer2 on 9/16/2007 9:03:38 PM , Rating: 3
Hey, don't forget the Sandisk Sansa! Love that thing!

RE: Grrr
By Laitainion on 9/17/2007 6:28:50 AM , Rating: 2
I've got one of those, very impressed with it. Can be set to appear as an external hard drive, or to hook up to WMP (and presumably other programs) for syncing and stuff. Very nice.

RE: Grrr
By acer905 on 9/17/2007 12:11:37 PM , Rating: 2
And have you seen the new sansa? 16GB for the same price as the new 8GB iPod nano, with longer battery life than the ipod, plus everything else the sansa already had. I gotta get me one of em

RE: Grrr
By bolders on 9/17/2007 3:38:36 PM , Rating: 2
I read about this new product recently. When I read that it could take the new high capacity SD cards (think that storage can be raised to 24GB at present) it was a done deal.

RE: Grrr
By CvP on 9/19/2007 9:19:48 AM , Rating: 2
EDIT: iAudio, Creative, Archos all the way!
and obviously, iPod s*** as ever.

sadly, not many people know about iAudios :(

By HrilL on 9/16/2007 6:01:33 PM , Rating: 2
Damn so now I have to actually use Itunes. I have always tried to avoid it at all cost. I guess I'll have to install it in a VM on my Linux box =(. At least until they find a way to hack it =). Hate how apple always tries to control their users!

RE: awww
By FITCamaro on 9/16/2007 6:27:31 PM , Rating: 2
But don't you use Linux because Windows tries to?

RE: awww
By Smurfer2 on 9/16/2007 6:49:25 PM , Rating: 2
Hate how apple always tries to control their users!

That is why I hate Apple. I can't build a computer and put OSX on it without hacking, I can only buy apple approved hardware, now Ipods will only work with Itunes.... Sums it up....

RE: awww
By Polynikes on 9/16/2007 8:08:30 PM , Rating: 2
I feared this would happen. Apple has tried to control their users through firmware and iTunes updates before, and I was afraid they'd eventually make it so you were forced to use iTunes. I'm really glad I've never bought an Apple product.

RE: awww
By AraH on 9/17/2007 10:19:58 AM , Rating: 2
i absolutely hate iTunes, i don't understand how anyone can use such a slow interface with so much unnecessary crap. If i want a feature, i'll get a plugin for it, which (at the last version of itunes i used (several years back) didn't support plugins...) winamp has the best plugins i've ever seen and is lightning fast (and their jump-to solution is so much better then iTunes' stupid search box, in which i can type faster then the text appears...)

i'll leave iMacs for another day...

RE: awww
By zzebi on 9/16/2007 10:40:19 PM , Rating: 1
For me iTunes is the perfect solution to organize my music collection. I started using it even without having an iPod. Once I got to know the software better I wanted a music player that is well integrated with it so I decided to buy an iPod later. In the same time I've never purchased anything from iTunes music store but I usually buy CDs and grab them.

I have a lot of experience with other solutions too but iTunes proved to be the most convenient so far. Although I can understand if someone doesn't like it as much as I do, I just don't get the hatred some people express against it.

Come on, it is just one of the solutions on the market. If you don't like it, use another one. Don't like the iPod and the attached infrastructure? Do you know any better? Go ahead and buy something else.

RE: awww
By Hydrofirex on 9/16/2007 11:07:46 PM , Rating: 1
That definitely wants to make me check out Itunes because managing an expansive music collection can be cumbersome. Though, I have to say Windows Explorer pretty much gives me all the control I need.

As for you're curiosity as to why people seem to hate Itunes so much. I can't speak for everyone and every situation, but I believe, and especially in this case, it's the fact that you are being told you HAVE to use it. Again, people want a true plug and play PMP experience. Also, people want devices that support a broad array of codecs and media types. Electronics should not force one to use a proprietary file format, program, or company. They should work with everything they can with in reason to "enhance the product experience," or some marketing bullshit like that.

Archos products seem to do this more and more.


To iPod or Not to iPod...
By cubdukat on 9/16/2007 6:49:34 PM , Rating: 1
Well, this does complicate things somewhat...

I was going to pick up an 80GB iPod now that the prices were lowered, but I might stick with a PlaysForSure-based player.

Naah, it doesn't. I have had very few issues with iTunes and getting music from it, whereas it's more of a hassle with a PlaysForSure store. I think the biggest offender of them all is Napster. Instead of being able to reauthorize tracks that I've moved to another PC, I am forced to download them all over again. This happened when I was forced to reinstall XP Home after a motherboard/CPU replacement brought on by a system failure. Unfortunately, on the computer in question, I only had dialup access.

About the only thing I don't like about iTunes is the playlist-making process.

At any rate, I think I could live with those limitations if for no other reason than to be free of Windows and its anal-retentive DRM fetish.

RE: To iPod or Not to iPod...
By hrah20 on 9/16/2007 8:07:28 PM , Rating: 2
me too , I was going to buy one of those new ipods but I HATE BEING FORCED to use only their software just because apple feels they don't get enough money, bye,bye apple,you're not going to get my money !!!.

RE: To iPod or Not to iPod...
By tdawg on 9/16/2007 11:04:15 PM , Rating: 3
iTunes is free and you don't have to buy tracks from the iTunes music store to enjoy an iPod. There are many other ways to get music into non-DRM .mp3 for use on any portable music player.

For the vast majority of users, especially those that own iPods, they have no interest in 3rd party software solutions for the iPod. iPod and iTunes play very nicely together; I can't see a reason to use anything else.

RE: To iPod or Not to iPod...
By ghost101 on 9/17/2007 3:55:34 AM , Rating: 2
Its not free. Apple still have to develop the product and the money for that does not come from trees. The cost of itunes is almost definitely subsidised by sales of OS X and the Ipod. Similar to the fact that the cost of windows media player is embedded into each of Microsft's OSs.

RE: To iPod or Not to iPod...
By viperpa on 9/19/2007 8:25:25 PM , Rating: 2
If Apple made it to where you could only use there music format on the IPod, then I would have a issue with it since I already own a IPod. As long as the IPod can play mp3's, then I have no problem with what Apple is doing.

People have a choice whether they want to buy an IPod or not. If you don't like what Apple is doing, buy another make music player. The only way Apple is going to change is when people stop buying there products.

RE: To iPod or Not to iPod...
By hrah20 on 9/20/2007 5:40:09 AM , Rating: 2
(The only way Apple is going to change is when people stop buying there products.)

Very true !!!.

Maybe now some people will wake up.
By Domicinator on 9/16/2007 9:18:34 PM , Rating: 3
I've always wondered what it would take to finally make people realize that Apple products are not all they're cracked up to be. Maybe this will finally be what does it.

Apple tries and tries to force its users to get all their music from iTunes. Just wait--the next thing they will get rid of is the ability to rip your store bought CDs to iTunes and put them on your iPod.

What's interesting to me though is that people actually think there is no other alternative to the iPod. They don't realize that there are other players out there, hell, a lot of people don't even really know what an MP3 actually is. All they know is that they download a song from iTunes and then it appears on their iPod.

The reality is that there are much better players out there than the iPod. They just aren't as trendy looking and don't have the little shiny logo on the back.

RE: Maybe now some people will wake up.
RE: Maybe now some people will wake up.
By theapparition on 9/17/2007 8:58:06 AM , Rating: 2
And if everyone else jumped off a cliff.........

By Pythias on 9/19/2007 8:01:15 AM , Rating: 2
And if everyone else jumped off a cliff...

...They'd probably be Apple consumers.

RE: Maybe now some people will wake up.
By AlphaVirus on 9/17/2007 9:57:11 AM , Rating: 2
I am sure Apple is paying a bill to Amazon to have their items listed before anyone else. It is popular but also Apple has plenty of cash to do such things.

By chrish89 on 9/17/2007 6:39:53 PM , Rating: 1
What sort of argument is products are lousy because their in high demand. If so, follow the minority and buy a zune or sansa...

By shabby on 9/16/2007 5:55:06 PM , Rating: 5
And tomorrow a 12 year old will come out with an unlock fix...

RE: ...
By Randy Marsh on 9/16/2007 9:29:56 PM , Rating: 2
Exactly. Plus you could always just use modified firmware, which should take all of a day to be written (rockbox anyone?)

RE: ...
By probedb on 9/17/2007 5:35:09 AM , Rating: 2
Unfortunately from looking at rockbox there appears to be no interest in developing for the new ipods. There is no rockbox for the 2nd gen nano let alone the 3rd. I still have my first gen but someone has broken the rockbox code so there are odd issues with some nanos (including mine) meaning there are playback glitches. Means I can't use it now :(

How doe sthis differ from MS Antitrust
By TheOtherBubka on 9/16/2007 9:46:00 PM , Rating: 2
Maybe someone could do a quick explanation but this seems awfully similar to the situation with Microsoft effectively 'forcing' Firefox/Mozilla from working well with Windows.

In both situations, Apple with iTunes and MS with IE, the corporation is leveraging their dominant market position to prevent similar technology from working with theirs. Furthermore, in Apple's case, they are also preventing their technology from working with other applications.

If Apple is claiming the iPod and iTunes is a 'closed' system similar to Xbox/PS3/etc., then the application (iTunes) should only be available when an iPod is purchased and iTunes should not be 'cross platform' as there can only be 1 platform.

FWIW, don't own an iPod, Zune, Zen, or whatever. I guess it is not that important to me to be able to listen to 'my music' while grocery shopping (as I have seen)...

By twdm on 9/17/2007 3:35:53 AM , Rating: 2
Exactly what I was thinking. The ipod plays mainstream music formats and not their own specific ".ipod" format music files so I don't see how it is a closed system like the xbox/ps where you can't simply put the game from one system into another.

Someone with legal knowledge should definitely look into this.

RE: How doe sthis differ from MS Antitrust
By ghost101 on 9/17/2007 3:39:50 AM , Rating: 2
It doesnt. Apple will almost definitely be considered a monopoly in the mp3 player market since they are above the legal requirement in terms of market share.

This is clearly bundling of products and should be and most probably will be investigated.

In the EU at least there are such moves

The Microsoft case will be a landmark case which will set precedent for all such future cases.

By ghost101 on 9/17/2007 3:46:06 AM , Rating: 2
Should clarify that the article actually refers to apple's monopoly in music downloads and the tying of that to the ipod rather than the other way round.

By DOCDAT1 on 9/17/2007 10:55:03 AM , Rating: 2
Norway, Denmark and Sweden has already stated that the Itunes-ipod locking is a violation of their consumer rights laws and are considering which measures to take. Germany and France are close behind. If Apple doesn't change this, they'll probably either have to pay a large fine and/or stop selling to these markets.

new iPod Classics working on Winamp
By BCanR2D2 on 9/20/2007 4:27:57 AM , Rating: 2
It's already been broken, so you ain't stuck to using iTunes with the new iPod Classics.

It will always be broken, just takes a small amt of time to fix

RE: new iPod Classics working on Winamp
By ghost101 on 9/22/2007 3:55:27 PM , Rating: 2
But it hsa to be illegally broken.

You can say that about anything. Oh this product is crap...but you can fix it by doing this and that.

By DragonMaster0 on 9/23/2007 10:19:01 AM , Rating: 2
by doing this and that.

It just works! Right...

Already hacked
By smitty3268 on 9/16/2007 7:16:04 PM , Rating: 4
Although Apple could keep trying to lock others out with future updates.

Why not just rip a CD
By enlil242 on 9/16/2007 11:34:24 PM , Rating: 3
Not sure what all the hub bub is about. Am I the only person who still buys CDs and rips them to my hard drive??? I'd never pay 99 cents for someone else to do that for me. And if I really have to, there are Anti-DRM programs out there...

Please explain to me where I am off base here. As to iPod, I like my Alpine dock connector in my car. I do not know any other player that has such an accessory at the moment, and that is the primary place I listen to my iPod, er, iPhone now!

No iPod for me
By Exodus220 on 9/16/2007 6:02:04 PM , Rating: 2
I have never been a fan of iPods and their fanbase of people that swear it is the greatest invention since sliced bread. I admit the iPod can be neat and 80GB for $250 is a deal, but this new bit of news again confirms for me that I will never purchase an iPod. I do not want to be limited to iTunes, I don't feel it is fair to require people to be stuck with just one service. Apple may have a great business idea, but it just rubs me the wrong way and I refuse to give my money to Apple...and I will not allow my wife to fall into the mass of Apple zombies, regardless of how many people profess their allegiance to Apple and their iPods.

All companies are the same really.
By Meaker10 on 9/16/2007 7:10:12 PM , Rating: 2
Just shows apples "hip and trendy" does not play well with others, maybe turns into an angry drunk at parties?

It's typical Apple ....
By frestkd on 9/16/2007 7:35:33 PM , Rating: 2
It's funny some things never change at all ... Apple and Microsoft up to their old ways as always. I'll never buy an ipod, or a zune, because they're proprietary devices.

Knee Jerk Reaction?
By Mitch101 on 9/16/2007 9:36:10 PM , Rating: 2
I think this is a knee jerk reaction to NBC for moving to Amazon. Maybe apple trying to say ok you move to Amazon but were not going to allow our customer base to buy any of your downloads. Apple is kind of the kid that if he inst winning or getting his way he takes his marbles and goes home.

If I owned an iPod I would see this as Apple abusing its customer base and trying to be the judge on where people get thier downloadable content for their devices. If someone pays for an Ipod they should be free to do whatever the hell they want with it.

Steve Jobs and apple should not be making that decision. What they are doing is actually anti-competitive practices.

never getting an ipod again
By xxsk8er101xx on 9/16/2007 11:25:36 PM , Rating: 2
I was going to buy the new ipod for my dad for Christmas. No way I'm getting it now. I'm sure there is something better without the proprietary software. I always avoid anything that has proprietary hardware or software. Nothing against Apple just like my options and freedom more than being told i must use their stuff.

I guess i have to stop buying music off itunes also. No skin off my teeth. Music isn't really all that important that i have to suffer through the greediness of Apple and the music industry. I'll live.

*psst was that a hint of a boycott?* hmmm .... anyway

Itunes Bloatware!
By Hacp on 9/17/2007 12:32:26 AM , Rating: 2
Itunes is serious bloatware. When I'm playing a song, including things like Ipodservice and that junk, I'm using 40mb of memory. That is unacceptable! The only reason I use Itunes is because of its easy podcast feature from the Itunes Music Store(Why can't you access it from a web browser again?), great file organizing, and nice search feature.

By scrapsma54 on 9/17/2007 8:48:27 AM , Rating: 2
DRM is stupid and iTunes is even worse. Like I said Before, INSIGNIA.

By Jammrock on 9/17/2007 9:50:15 AM , Rating: 2
The iPod is no longer a music player, it's an iTunes player. I'll pass, thank you.

Apple, you lost a sale
By razor2025 on 9/17/2007 10:11:55 AM , Rating: 2
Here I was, this close from buying the new nano for my sister's birthday and they've managed to lose that sale for this shoddy decision. I will not buy any hardware that forces a software tie-in. At least the Sansa view looks pretty good and actually have MORE for LESS MONEY.

By VooDooAddict on 9/17/2007 11:29:40 AM , Rating: 2
Thanks for saving me a couple hundred $$.

I was finally going to cave and buy the new iPod Touch. But I think I'll stick with my 4gig Samsung 'Nano clone'.

Sure, I would have mainly used iTunes to transfer songs but what if an iTunes release was buggy ... I'd now be SOL.

bend over...
By FangedRabbit on 9/17/2007 11:54:26 AM , Rating: 2
I think apple should change its logo from an apple, to an erect penis, and the "think different" slogan to "bend over".

big deal
By headbox on 9/16/07, Rating: -1
RE: big deal
By chrish89 on 9/17/07, Rating: -1
RE: big deal
By iFX on 9/17/2007 8:24:13 AM , Rating: 2
The iPod is a nice product but iTunes is a fairly shitty application on all counts. There are better applications out there.

"What would I do? I'd shut it down and give the money back to the shareholders." -- Michael Dell, after being asked what to do with Apple Computer in 1997
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