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The new Mac Pro is all business

The Xserve in rack formation
New Mac Pro, Xserve employ eight cores to beef up performance

Choosing not to wait until its own Macworld event next week, Apple today introduced during the middle of CES the new Mac Pro with two of Intel’s new 45 nanometer quad-core Xeon processors and a new system architecture that the company boasts is twice the performance of its predecessor.

“The new Mac Pro is the fastest Mac we’ve ever made,” said Philip Schiller, Apple’s senior vice president of Worldwide Product Marketing. “With 3.2 GHz 8-core Xeon processing, a 1600 MHz front side bus and 800 MHz memory, the new Mac Pro uses the fastest Intel Xeon architecture on the market.”

On the graphics side, the new Mac Pro comes equipped standard with the ATI Radeon HD 2600 XT with 256MB of video memory. Those opting for other graphic options can upgrade using the Mac Pro’s standard PCI Express 2.0 graphics slot. Apple said that it would offer NVIDIA video cards as options in the near future.

With a starting price at a suggested retail price of $2,799, the Mac Pro isn’t just for any casual yuppie. Apple calls the new Mac Pro its “most expandable Mac ever” with four internal hard drive bays with direct-attach, cable-free installation of four 1TB Serial ATA hard drives and support for two SuperDrives – making it ideal for film and video editing applications.

For $2,799, the user will get two 2.8 GHz Quad-Core Intel Xeon processors, 2GB RAM, 320GB HDD and a SuperDrive. The price quickly increases with upgrades to 3.0 or 3.2 GHz processors, more RAM, additional hard drives, RAID cards, SuperDrives and NVIDIA graphics.

Along with the new Mac Pro, Apple also announced the new Xserve, a similarly equipped 1U rack-optimized server also with two quad-core Intel Xeon processors. The 3.0 GHz model is priced at $2,999.

“With the latest Intel processors and no client access licenses, Xserve offers unbeatable server performance and value for under $3,000,” said Schiller. “Xserve’s power, storage and Leopard Server make it ideal for supporting Mac clients and mixed platform workgroups.”

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By phisrow on 1/9/2008 2:55:19 PM , Rating: 3
For a machine of its class, 2 quad cores, a slab of RAM, up to 4 PCIe cards, and general good fit and finish, the price certainly isn't bargain basement; but it really isn't that bad. You wouldn't save all that much by getting, say, a Dell Precision of equivalent power and the internals on the Precisions are kinda gross(My work PC is one, I've been there).

That said, the Pro is way too crazy expensive to allow us to close our eyes and pretend that it is the decently upgradeable mini/midi tower that all the geeks really wish Apple would make. I think that this is why the price bothers people as much as it does. 2,800 dollars for a workstation is fine. 2,800 dollars for the cheapest computer that accepts internal expansion cards(not counting ExpressCard 34) really rubs my "but-my-cheap-and-awful-but-still-dual-core-300-dol lar-dell-had-four-expansion-slots-god-damn-it" PC land mind the wrong way.




By kkwst2 on 1/9/2008 3:05:14 PM , Rating: 2
I don't think you can even configure a comparable Precision workstation for this price. Maybe on some kind of special, but Dell workstations have never been well-priced.

If you need a workstation class computer and are interested in running Mac software and/or dual-booting, there's nothing to complain about here.

I understand what you're saying. There is a gap in their lineup between the Mac Pro and the iMac. It's a little hard to understand. Perhaps it would cannibalize on Mac Pro sales. I'm sure they know what they're doing. If there's one thing that Apple seems to do well (at least in the last decade) it's market.


By Umbongo on 1/9/2008 3:18:54 PM , Rating: 2
You are right, Dell (and HP etc) don't compare on price. A Dell T5400 with Dual 2.83Ghz processors, 2GB of 667MHz FB-DIMMs, 256MB NVS290 graphics card, 320GB hard drive and windows XP is $4223, though 3 years of onsite support is also included.

For what you get harware wise the Mac Pro is going to offer one of the best deals through it's lifetime, just as the last one did. Only bettered if you buy the components yourself or from a smaller vendor latter on in it's life.

Apple of course are targeting the home user and amateurs as well as professionals with the Mac Pro, so can't be selling a base system for prices like Dell do for the specs, and need to keep any new base system ahead of what came before.


By oab on 1/9/2008 8:48:45 PM , Rating: 2
Apple is targeting the semi-pro and real-pro people with that beauty, not the "home user", that's the iMac's domain.

It's called the "pro" for a reason (specifically, Intel wants all people using Xenon processors to market the boxes they inhabit as workstations or servers, NOT as a PC for the home user).


remember...
By wwwebsurfer on 1/9/2008 1:32:53 PM , Rating: 2
This is a mac PRO. It's professional grade. Don't get me wrong, I hate apple up one street and down another, and will NEVER EVER buy an apple product under any circumstances.

However, when hooked up to video editing or photo applications it can't be beat. Pro grade means price is no object. You want the fastest money can buy so you can get back to making money.

Since price is an object to me, I'll stick to my 2 or 4 core with 8GB of RAM for the moment.




RE: remember...
By FITCamaro on 1/9/2008 2:24:07 PM , Rating: 1
Pretty much all the applications you can get for the Mac are available on the PC now. Only one that comes to mind and isn't is Shake.

And due to now using Intel processors, Mac's have lost their advantage with multimedia tasks. They used to be so good at it because the PowerPC chip had 32 MMX registers which made them much faster at multimedia tasks since Intel processors only had 8. Now both types of computers have identical hardware. The only difference is the OS.


RE: remember...
By Yawgm0th on 1/10/2008 10:56:30 AM , Rating: 3
So they make FinalCut Pro for PC now?


RE: remember...
By LaughinAtYa on 1/12/2008 4:36:11 PM , Rating: 2
quote:

Pretty much all the applications you can get for the Mac are available on the PC now. Only one that comes to mind and isn't is Shake.


LOL ... Apple's 'Logic' - a pro audio recording industry standard - hasn't been supported on PC for years.


(donning asbestos underwear)
By zaxxon on 1/9/2008 10:58:26 AM , Rating: 3
honestly : which it's easily worth!!!!!!!!




RE: (donning asbestos underwear)
By Flunk on 1/9/2008 11:27:19 AM , Rating: 2
Still doesn't come close to the G5 dual core systems, those things could burn down a house.


RE: (donning asbestos underwear)
By ajfink on 1/9/2008 12:20:07 PM , Rating: 2
I think he meant the asbestos for the ensuing flame war, not the heat they put out.


pricing
By sph on 1/10/2008 11:06:20 AM , Rating: 2
i just priced 2 machines from apple's and dell's websites
apple macpro vs dell precision t7400
2xquad core xeon 3.2ghz
4x1 gb ecc ram (667Mhz for the dell, 800Mhz according to apple for the macpro)
nvidia fx 5600
apple 30" cinema display vs dell 30" 3007WFPHC
4xsas 300gb 15k hdd
apple macpro raid card vs dell perc6/i raid
apple 16x superdrive vs dell 16x dvd rw
apple wireless keyboard and mouse vs dell bluetooth keyboard and mouse
mac os 10.5 vs vista ultimate

and nothing else

apple: $13747
dell: $12377

before taxes shipping etc




RE: pricing
By sph on 1/10/2008 11:10:29 AM , Rating: 2
sorry, i need to add that both machines have 3 year warranties, ie i added the 3 year applecare protection for the mac


RE: pricing
By sph on 1/10/2008 11:32:37 AM , Rating: 2
hewlett-packard xw8600
same config as the other 2, with these diffs:
wired usb keyboard and mouse
ram config is 2x2gb 667Mhz eec
vista business - hp does not preinstall ultimate on this model
total: $13496
also i have to subtract $50 from the apple price, as i inadvertently included the external modem.

there are ofcourse differences in number of ports, slots and bays between the 3 machines.


It's cheap...for a workstation
By motoxpress on 1/9/2008 2:15:44 PM , Rating: 2
If you compare Apple's offering to an equal Dell or HP workstation you will see how reasonable it really is. Also, what other workstation can legally run as many OS' as the MacPro?




RE: It's cheap...for a workstation
By kkwst2 on 1/9/2008 3:13:12 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Also, what other workstation can legally run as many OS' as the MacPro?


You don't really want to get into that argument, do you? Violating the EULA and being illegal are two different things, but that should probably be taken to Slashdot where people are more interested in arguing such silliness.

Agreed about the pricing.


Well
By pauldovi on 1/9/08, Rating: 0
RE: Well
By themadmilkman on 1/9/2008 9:06:02 PM , Rating: 2
If that's the case with the Mac Pro, then Dell and HP are paying WAY too much for their parts.

Build this same machine from either vendor. Then come back and tell me which company gave you the best deal. You may find out that, in terms of workstations, you're the sheep stuck following the tired, worn-out mantra that Macs are always more expensive.


Gotta love Marketing
By bhieb on 1/9/2008 4:14:47 PM , Rating: 2
“The new Mac Pro is the fastest Mac we’ve ever made,”

Really you don't introduce new products that are the slower than the previous model. God I hate PR people.




Heh
By FITCamaro on 1/9/08, Rating: -1
RE: Heh
By FITCamaro on 1/9/2008 10:57:49 AM , Rating: 2
Sorry. That was for the 2.8GHz model.

And case price I stated to be $200 because its similar to the Lian Li cases of the same price range.

Oh and I forgot the video card. $75-100 for that. So if you consider that Apple probably only pays $50 (max) for each of the cases, it's still about what I said.


RE: Heh
By GaryJohnson on 1/9/2008 12:21:13 PM , Rating: 3
Don't get me wrong, I love Lian-Li cases and they're the only case I'll have any of my PCs in; but those Mac-Pro cases are suprisingly sexy in person, inside and out.

http://www.architosh.com/features/2006/reviews/mac...

Plus, they have nifty magnetic latches. Do to the thickness of the aluminum they use, they're probably more similar to one of the thick skinned silverstone cases.


RE: Heh
By Vanilla Thunder on 1/9/2008 1:00:20 PM , Rating: 1
Agreed. The case is a work of art in itself. And contrary to a lot of Apple machines, access for upgrades looks to be rather hassle-free. SEXY.

Vanilla


RE: Heh
By Ryanman on 1/9/08, Rating: -1
RE: Heh
By FITCamaro on 1/9/2008 2:19:23 PM , Rating: 2
They are nice cases. But they have very few hard drive slots given the size. In college my boss had a dual G5 Mac Pro (did lots of video editing) and the thing only had two internal 3.5" slots.

Most Lian Li cases have 5-6 internal hard drive slots.

Looks like Apple has gotten better, but even this one only has 4 it says. More than enough for the average person I suppose, but for such an expensive PC and a large case, I'd expect 6-8.

My video server at home has 5 drives in it(Lian Li V1000B) and will be getting 2 more that I'll have to mount in empty 5.25" bays.


RE: Heh
By GaryJohnson on 1/9/2008 3:32:02 PM , Rating: 2
There's a method for swapping out 1 optical drive for 2 HDDs (or 2 for 4 HDDs.) And then there's external drives via USB, FireWire, NAS, eSATA.


RE: Heh
By Trisagion on 1/9/2008 11:02:46 AM , Rating: 3
Well, you're forgetting R&D, marketing and whole potpourri of other stuff that goes into the product, so your $400 assumption for the OS is probably more than a bit off.


RE: Heh
By kkwst2 on 1/9/2008 1:05:22 PM , Rating: 2
What R&D? For the case? He allowed a generous $200 for the case. Otherwise, it's basically canned hardware. There's not much R&D except for the software, which is what he's talking about.

Don't get me wrong. I don't begrudge Apple charging what they want and of all their stuff I actually think the Mac Pro's are probably the best deal. Try getting an HP or Dell workstation for that price. I suspect Intel is cutting them a huge break on the Xeon processors. Where they'll really get you is in the upgrades. Their memory prices and add-ons are crazy, but that's true of Dell and others too.

Overall, a very nice machine at a pretty fair price. I love the pop-in hard drive bays. If only I liked the Mac OS. I've been very tempted to get one of these and dual/triple boot...


RE: Heh
By Zandros on 1/9/2008 11:05:52 AM , Rating: 2
Say, some 200 dollars more for the 1000W PSU? It seems idiotic to use Apple's wholesale price, unless you're going to compare to wholesale too.


RE: Heh
By Challeman on 1/9/2008 12:23:56 PM , Rating: 3
This is FB-DIMM memory so we're talking more about $200-300...


RE: Heh
By kkwst2 on 1/9/2008 1:17:43 PM , Rating: 2
Uh, no. Try again. Maybe from the Apple store (in fact wow it looks like they're charging you $250 a pop for 1GB dimms), but you can get them for about $130, and you can bet they cost Apple much less - no more than $100 cost for them.

http://www.compuvest.us/ProductDetails.aspx?Produc...

They're new so there's not a ton of stock. There's definitely a premium for FB-DIMMS, but it's not 300%!!


RE: Heh
By dcalfine on 1/9/2008 1:57:40 PM , Rating: 2
You're paying for this on the motherboard whether you want it or not, but for professionals 1.2TB at 10,000RPM can be more valuable than 4TB at 7,200RPM


RE: Heh
By Hare on 1/9/2008 2:16:35 PM , Rating: 2
So what? Compare to a similar Dell, HP, Fujitsu Siemens etc and look at their price. No one cares how much a similar machine would cost if you would hunt each component from the cheapest retailer.

Look at the big picture. You are getting a machine and an OS with support from a single company. You don't get that when you are buying n+1 components from 3 different retailers. It costs more than your DIY Newegg rig but at least you get something in return.


“And I don't know why [Apple is] acting like it’s superior. I don't even get it. What are they trying to say?” -- Bill Gates on the Mac ads











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