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Print 353 comment(s) - last by Pirks.. on Feb 20 at 11:22 PM


  (Source: Wired)
Apple and the EFF trade words over jailbreaking iPhones

In comments filed with the U.S. Copyright Office as part of the 2009 Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA) triennial rulemaking, jailbreaking the popular iPhone effectively is copyright infringement and a DMCA violation, Apple claims.

The Copyright Office comes together every three years to hear cases for exemption requests, and the Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) filed an exemption request seeking exemption for consumers looking to jailbreak the iPhone so it can use independent software not sold through the App Store.

Apple fired back with comments essentially saying jailbreaking "involves infringing uses of the bootloader and OS, the copyrighted works that are protected by the TPMs being circumvented."  The company also said "It will destroy the technological protection of Apple's key copyrighted computer programs in the iPhone device itself and of copyrighted content owned by Apple that plays on the iPhone."

Although many phone owners already jailbreak their iPhones, this marks the first time Apple publicly said jailbreaking is illegal.  The Cupertino-based company is working to try and stop the proliferation of jailbreaking, and isn't necessarily looking to outright ban jailbreaking -- something it knows it will not be able to realistically accomplish.

The EFF and Apple are now engaged in a back-and-forth war of words, with the EFF saying the following in a press release: 

If this sounds like FUD, that's because it is.  One need only transpose Apple's arguments to the world of automobiles to recognize their absurdity. Sure, GM might tell us that, for our own safety, all servicing should be done by an authorized GM dealer using only genuine GM parts. Toyota might say that swapping your engine could reduce the reliability of your car. And Mazda could say that those who throw a supercharger on their Miatas frequently exceed the legal speed limit.


The non-profit group then says, "We'd never accept this corporate paternalism as a justification for welding every car hood shut and imposing legal liability on car buffs tinkering in their garages."

Despite fighting the "good fight" many iPhone owners would likely support, don't be surprised to see if this particular exemption is denied by the Copyright Office in the near future.



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I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By DEredita on 2/13/2009 1:59:54 PM , Rating: 4
I absolutely hate what Apple has become. They are stamping out progress in technology, if it doesn't meet their strict specifications. They try to aggressive stamp out competition by using their legal team (Google's Android, Palm Pre, Psystar, etc..), they use inferior laptop hardware in their consumer desktop machines, they have propaganda smear campaign commercials, and they appear to be nothing more than a greedy, money-hungry, monopolistic company.
People are buying on to all their lies of offering superior cutting edge technology. Last time I checked, the Mac Mini offers 3 year old computer technology for $600+, the iMac uses inferior laptop hardware, and the Mac Pro costs upwards of $3000+ for a workstation system with outrageously obsolete video cards.




RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By DEredita on 2/13/2009 2:03:18 PM , Rating: 4
I pray that this recession bites them on the ass, and pushes them to encourage competition and innovation, at a fair price. Right now, all I see is nothing more than corporate bullying, since they have gone unchecked, and almost everyone today is scared to step up to them. They can get away with outrageous pricing on outdated junk in a fancy candy shell, and make it seem like it's a technological achievement.


RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By Pirks on 2/13/09, Rating: 0
RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By DEredita on 2/13/2009 2:33:47 PM , Rating: 2
I'm a Mac user, thank you very much. I have a 2.16 GHz C2D Macbook, but there is nothing below a Mac Pro, that can satisfy my desktop computing needs.


RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By Pirks on 2/13/09, Rating: 0
By Chocobollz on 2/13/2009 3:38:57 PM , Rating: 1
Apparently he isn't one of peoples I've said here: http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=14267... ;-)

Are you one of that peoples? :-)


By HighWing on 2/14/2009 6:33:10 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
but there is nothing below a Mac Pro,

That is because the only thing on the market with specs below that are netbooks. *laughs* So yeah you are right there is "nothing" below your Macbook.


By Chocobollz on 2/13/2009 3:35:01 PM , Rating: 5
quote:
yet again Apple posts another profitable quarter

Have you ever heard this quote, "God must love stupid people because he made so many." before? I think that explains it ;-)


RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By omnicronx on 2/13/2009 3:43:06 PM , Rating: 5
MS laid off its workers because their profits did not meet expectations, they are still making more money than Apple, and they are NOT dipping into their reserves.
quote:
Keep barking, market realities don't pay attention to you bashers :-P
Yes they do, thanks for pointing that out;

Apple Q4 profit: $1.61 billion

Microsoft Q4 profit: $4.17 billion

Thanks for playing !


RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By Pirks on 2/13/09, Rating: 0
RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By TomZ on 2/13/2009 4:10:31 PM , Rating: 5
That's silly - the amount of cash on hand is hardly a single-point indicator of the health or value of a company. As your linked article points out, Microsoft has been putting its cash to work, whereas Apple has been letting it accumulate. So big deal.


RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By Pirks on 2/13/09, Rating: 0
RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By TSS on 2/13/2009 8:02:02 PM , Rating: 1
in the past 3 months, Iphone revenue has risen about 30% from 3.5 billion to 4.6 billion total.

their revenue overall went up 558 million, their net income went up 26 million.

if people where buying as many iphones in december as they where in september, their net income would've been far, far lower.

it certainly isn't the mac that's saving them, it's the Iphone. and news like this news topic is exactly what's going to stop the rise in iphone sales.


RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By Pirks on 2/13/09, Rating: 0
By Hieyeck on 2/13/2009 11:48:07 PM , Rating: 4
Sure, jailbreaking is probably done by techies and techies alone... Cept my phone-nut friend makes an easy 2000 a month jailbreaking (and patching) phones on weekends for his friends and friend's friends and friend's friend's friends and... you get the point. The people have spoken, they want control over their iPhone.


RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By Elrondolio on 2/16/2009 12:51:56 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
Declaring jailbreaking illegal will only affect a few techies who are a minority. hence this won't affect iPhone sales in any noticeable way.


Hardly... it doesn't matter if only a small subset of iPhoners jailbreak their phone. Apples continuing anti-consumer moves are eroding the public's perception of the company. Once you're seen as a tyrant its an extremely slippery slope (the RIAA conglomerate can speak well to this).

This type of behavior and resulting bad mojo from consumers is *exactly* what Microsoft has been digging itself out of since the DOJ actions 10ish years ago... with some decent and surprising success. Most companies fail badly trying to reverse course once they've pissed off consumers because they don't recognize when its too late to do so (SCO, RAMBUS, etc).

Apple is still at the top of the design heap. But they're digging themselves into a collapse from the bottom of their success with continuing anti-consumer moves like this... many jailbreakers or no.


By robinthakur on 2/18/2009 8:17:24 AM , Rating: 2
Are you brain dead? As somebody who has owned 3 iPhones but only has a contract for my current 3G, Jailbreaking was useful for a while, but I was never under any illusions whatsoever that it wasn't an after market modification much akin to using the Twilight Hack on the Wii, and the steps you had to take to reflash the phone and then install the installer programs was for the purpose of circumventing the copy protection installed in the phone. I think that is actually a breach of the DMCA, regardless of how many people do it. Apple have not been nearly as ruthless as most of you seem to think they are, its incredibly difficult to brick an iPhone completely even when jailbreaking, and they are just protecting their customers from buying unlocked iPhones.

Articles like this will absolutely NOT damage iPhone sales because most users and potential users see the fact that the apps are vetted by apple in an appstore environment as a positive thing, and hence why so many vendors have copied them. The Installer on my jailbroken iphones was way ahead of its time and great, but the quality of Apps is way higher through the App store and the updates etc work way better.

You also have the problem where people resell these jailbroken phones to people who don't understand that you can't just plug them into iTunes and update them when a new firmware comes out. Who picks up the tab in that case? Apple? The end user?


RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By omnicronx on 2/13/2009 4:20:52 PM , Rating: 5
While I admit, I was wrong about the reserves (although Toms already pointed out why this does not matter, as does your linked article) you were still wrong about the point that matters(the main point of your post). You clearly stated Microsoft is losing money, when in reality their profits are still four times higher than Apples.


RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By Pirks on 2/13/09, Rating: -1
By mars777 on 2/13/2009 7:46:41 PM , Rating: 1
It was 16 years ago. Apple was never closer to going out of business. Microsoft did not give Apple $200,000,000 but bought that much worth of stock from Apple and believe me they made a lot of money out of it. It was not a gift but a good investment.


RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By KCjoker on 2/13/2009 6:50:00 PM , Rating: 1
People are bashing what they're doing which of course you didn't address in your post.


RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By CvP on 2/14/2009 3:10:56 AM , Rating: 4
Pirks has posted a total of 2086 comments at DailyTech, the average comment rating was 0.93.


RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By SavagePotato on 2/14/2009 5:11:20 PM , Rating: 3
That's cause he is the most asinine apple shill the internet has ever seen. Even the other apple fanboys that inhabit dailytech probably look at him and roll their eyes.

He is almost on par with the troll playstation three for useless post volume to me.


RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By Pirks on 2/13/09, Rating: -1
RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By omnicronx on 2/13/2009 3:45:43 PM , Rating: 5
Are you telling me nothing about this article phases you at all?

The problem is worse than I thought... now I can see why Apple gets away with it.


RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By TomZ on 2/13/2009 3:52:26 PM , Rating: 2
Yeah, last month built a quad-core i7 with 3X the RAM and 2X the HDD size for about $1000 lower than that price. :o)

But I'll admit the dual-socket option is a nice feature.


RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By Pirks on 2/13/09, Rating: -1
RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By TomZ on 2/13/2009 4:15:32 PM , Rating: 5
No, of course not. This machine is so ridiculously fast with 4 cores already. Plus it's Core i7, not Core 2 like the Mac. And it uses DDR3, not DDR2. Plus I've got 10K RPM VelociRaptor drives, not 7200RPM drives. Well...you get the idea.


RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By Pirks on 2/13/09, Rating: -1
RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By LRonaldHubbs on 2/13/2009 5:29:07 PM , Rating: 5
Your posts contain an alarming quantity of fail.


RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By Pirks on 2/13/09, Rating: -1
By EntreHoras on 2/14/2009 5:00:52 AM , Rating: 4
They are ignoring you.


RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By exanimas on 2/13/2009 6:13:34 PM , Rating: 2
Hahaha, why would he bother putting OSX on that machine? Waste.


RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By Pirks on 2/13/09, Rating: -1
By DEredita on 2/13/2009 6:49:10 PM , Rating: 2
My favorite flavor of Vista was the 64-bit Business edition. Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit is much nicer than Vista, runs quicker, and uses less RAM.


By wetwareinterface on 2/13/2009 6:41:55 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Try to assemble same high quality parts PC with Lian Li aluminum case, six quiet thermal controlled fans etc etc, with two socket server mobo on the same chipset as Mac Pro, and Mac OS X license and you'll see that the price will be the same $2300 or about that. Hence your "$1000 point" is moot.


would be a piece of cake to come in under the mac pro price with better hardware. for example dual socket motherboard is only $250 more than core 17 compatible board for high end workstation board. for the extra $750 i could add a whole lot to that machine. say crossfire 4870 x2 with an additional 4870 for tri crossfire. or how about just going with extra ram and a single 4870 x2. since we're talking core 2 quads you could get around 12-16 Gb more ram for that extra $350 with some sales pricing. etc...

and lian li is not the case i'd pick. they are okay but a bit cramped for all the extra hardware you could stuff into a case for $1000. the cooler master cosmos is a better choice probably.

and i would never run osx on a machine at this time. i tried it out for a bit with the osx-86 hacked installer stuff out there but the os was crap. it just didn't work for me. couldn't stand the network configuration utilities, the lack of any decent 3d games is obvious, photoshop ran slower on it than under xp or even vista, the music making apps i use were not compatible and logic is so convoluted to get anything basic setup that i'd never spend $500 for an app like it. the mac offered me nothing over windows technically and only offered me a bouncing icon vs. a color changing blink for an inactive window that needed attention as far as gui superiority over even win xp let alone vista.


By wetwareinterface on 2/13/2009 6:44:00 PM , Rating: 2
and yes i know we are talking core 2 quad with fb dimms as the core 2 quad is a xeon part. i only meant architecturally we are talking core 2 quad as in vs. i7.


RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By Pirks on 2/13/09, Rating: -1
By mars777 on 2/13/2009 8:10:14 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Hacked OS X which you tried to make into Windows? Hehe, that speaks volumes :) Nice try


I have it too, and it runs smoother than my fathers original. We have about the same configurations (mobo difference) (except for my GPU - 8800GT vs 7600GT - but that shouldn't influence)

Nevertheless by having triple boot, i spend most time under linux (ubuntu) - but that's because i like tinkering with the OS :P


By Dark Legion on 2/14/2009 3:56:34 AM , Rating: 1
I would pay to NOT put OSX on my computer, especially with specs like those, it would just be a waste.


RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By Pirks on 2/13/09, Rating: -1
By nidomus on 2/15/2009 1:42:03 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Because Apple barks instead of biting.


So... you're comparing Apple to a small yappy dog? Appropriate.


RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By DEredita on 2/13/2009 4:01:39 PM , Rating: 5
I can't justify the price of the Mac Pro - $2,149.00 for a 2.8 GHz quad-core Xeon system with 2GB FB-DIMM ram, and a 256MB ATI 2600XT video card. There is no way in hell I can justify spending that much money on that hardware.

Hand-built, for ~$2300, I can do (2) 2.5 GHz Xeon quad-core processors, dual-socket motherboard, 32GB FB-DIMM server ram, 9800GTX video card, server case, PSU, and (2) 640GB hard drives.


RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By Pirks on 2/13/09, Rating: -1
RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By TomZ on 2/13/2009 4:38:34 PM , Rating: 5
quote:
Do you also hand build your cars?
If I could shop for parts quickly on the Internet, have them shipped via UPS, then put them together in an hour or two, and get exactly what I wanted and save 20% or more (40% compared to Apple), I would do it.


By omnicronx on 2/13/2009 4:53:30 PM , Rating: 5
Exactly! Everyone likes getting a deal. This is the main reason why I don't buy Apple products, not because I dislike Apple as a brand.

I love shopping around and getting the best bang for my buck. If thats not your thing, then all the power to you... but that does not make me an 'Apple Hater', it just makes me a smart shopper. (Not that buying Apple makes you a bad shopper, I just feel unless they are the only ones with a product that suits your needs, you are probably not getting the best possible deal). Then again, what other people buy is none of my business, but if you are going to preach about it, prepare to hear my point of view on the matter.


RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By Pirks on 2/13/09, Rating: -1
RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By cherrycoke on 2/13/2009 7:28:22 PM , Rating: 2
something about "then put them together in an hour or two"
was left out of your rebuttal.. your point is moot.


RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By theapparition on 2/13/2009 10:23:10 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
Some people still build cars by hand, and they make them better and cheaper than factory made cars. Aren't you ashamed by this, Tom? ;-) You paid extra XYZ thousand bucks for an INFERIOR car! Oh da horror! :)))

Absolutely no one can build a superior car by hand for cheaper than a mass produced models. Can't be done.

Analogy FAIL.

There are some very nice hand made cars, even kits, but tend to be vastly more expensive than competitive models. And anything cheaper, is way inferior.

About the nicest kits that you can buy are the Factory Five's. Getting ready to place my GTM order. And believe me, it's not cheap.


RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By Pirks on 2/13/09, Rating: -1
RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By SlyNine on 2/14/2009 2:03:30 AM , Rating: 2
Wow, You missed the point all together, were not talking about brands. Do you read what you type?

He's not saying, No one can build a Chevy Impala, He's saying no one can build a CAR as good as the Chevy Impala by hand as cheap AND as good by hand/kit.

As far as laptops, Never priced a do it your self. But their are a lot better options from the competitors.


RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By Dark Legion on 2/14/2009 4:19:56 AM , Rating: 1
No, he will build his own brand of computer and make it FAR superior to any iMac or Macbook. We are PC, we can do that.


RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By 67STANG on 2/15/2009 2:19:35 AM , Rating: 1
Just wanted to issue a small correction:
Anyone can build a superior computer, for less money than Apple.

Other than that, spot on.


By kmmatney on 2/14/2009 12:30:58 AM , Rating: 2
Epic fail


RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By chick0n on 2/13/2009 4:21:28 PM , Rating: 5
Dont waste your time with Apple fanboi like Pirks

Apple can just shit in their boxes and people like Pirks will buy it. Cuz its Apple's shit. It must be some good shit.

I can Build any computer with the price of anything Apple has WHILE beating it in performance and price. Try me.


RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By Pirks on 2/13/09, Rating: -1
RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By TomZ on 2/13/2009 4:53:09 PM , Rating: 5
I'm guessing by your reaction that there must be some truth to the OP's statement that upset you. Maybe Jobs should start up his new product offering: iCrap. :o)


RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By Pirks on 2/13/09, Rating: -1
RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By DEredita on 2/13/2009 5:54:27 PM , Rating: 4
I apologize that you feel so offended by the topic. Hope your weekend is a bit better.


RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By Pirks on 2/13/09, Rating: -1
RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By DEredita on 2/13/2009 6:47:54 PM , Rating: 3
Ok, cool. I am just a multi-OS user. I run my Macbook for basic things, e-mail, web, and various OSX apps. But, it is not good at multi-virtual machine madness. That's where my Dell Workstation comes in handy.

On the Dell - with a 256MB video card, 2.4 GHz dual-core CPU, and 8GB ram, it's multi-monitor, multi-virtual machine madness. I have Windows 7 running as the main OS - so I can run it though it's paces for testing purposes, then have three virtual machines: Linux, Win XP, and Win Vista. I also run remote-desktop sessions. This machine usually does fine, but I utilize 5.25 GB to 7.2+ GB ram. I would like something with a bit horsepower and ram.

I am not exactly anti-Mac, as I love the OS X operating system. It's just their hardware is lacking for my needs, and the Mac Pro is far outside my price range. There is no middle ground, and that boils my blood. It also doesn't help that lately, it appears Apple is more concerned with crushing competition, than working on innovative computer technology and options.


RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By Pirks on 2/13/09, Rating: -1
RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By WTFiSJuiCE on 2/13/2009 7:51:18 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
Now that's pretty stupid. There are no cheap Ferraris or Bugattis, no cheap private airplanes, no cheap diamonds *fixed* etc. Does it boil your blood too? You're really strange.


Using Ferraris and Bugattis to make your point about there being no middle ground w/ Mac computers? Now that is pretty stupid.

The quality of hardware that you get in macs are not close to being in the super range, let alone justifying the price range they are in. Using examples of Exotic or Super cars to justify your point is pretty laughable.

For the record, Macs aren't bad but they are overpriced.

As for the article, yes Jobs' autocratic idiocy in the industry did make him sick. Let us hope his doctors find a cure for both.


By Springfield45 on 2/13/2009 10:54:47 PM , Rating: 5
Admins! Are you awake? Do we really have to put up with this stuff?


RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By SlyNine on 2/14/2009 2:09:42 AM , Rating: 2
Comparing Apple stuff to a Bugatti veyron, Is out of touch with reality. Apple often makes inferior products and sales them for much more. Where as the Bugatti is a vastly superior product, sold for more.

I could see you buying Steves' Icrap.


RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By pattycake0147 on 2/14/2009 6:42:07 PM , Rating: 3
Does Ferrari tells it buyers they can't modify their car because it's illegal. (note the topic of the article)

Does Bugatti sue other companies for making cheaper alternatives. (read Psystar)

Does Cessna sue Boeing for using common features that any aircraft manufacturer can implement. (multi-touch Palm)

You're not the only one with valid points and much of what you say just doesn't hold water when you expand you're narrow view of the world.


RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By Pirks on 2/14/09, Rating: -1
RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By Noliving on 2/14/2009 10:03:52 PM , Rating: 3
No but they have threatend legal action especially with google.


By wetwareinterface on 2/13/2009 6:50:45 PM , Rating: 2
the troll speaks of other types of trolls under his bridge? but doesn't know he's a troll?


RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By Pirks on 2/13/09, Rating: -1
RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By MamiyaOtaru on 2/13/2009 7:41:22 PM , Rating: 2
Who's the more troll? the troll or the troll who trolls him?


By WTFiSJuiCE on 2/13/2009 7:55:30 PM , Rating: 2
What is the calculated weight ratio of a swallow?


By Neutrion on 2/15/2009 2:50:16 AM , Rating: 1
You're enjoying it? Congrats flamer, you are the bait :(


By Springfield45 on 2/13/2009 10:52:02 PM , Rating: 5
Seriously! Admins! Start jumping all over this sort of thing. Please!


RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By SavagePotato on 2/14/2009 5:17:34 PM , Rating: 5
Pirks is really off his meds this week based on his epic number of -1 posts in one thread. Him and PLAYSTATIONTHREE could get together for valentines day and make beautiful music together.


By toolguy on 2/13/2009 8:23:03 PM , Rating: 2
Wow. Good one guy.


RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By Springfield45 on 2/13/2009 10:49:53 PM , Rating: 2
I think it is time for the admins to start banning folks for this sort of invective.


RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By Pirks on 2/14/09, Rating: -1
RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By SlyNine on 2/14/2009 2:11:57 AM , Rating: 2
It is a good thing, To bad they don't ban trolls like you though.


RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By chick0n on 2/15/2009 12:37:32 AM , Rating: 1
If Apple's price/performance ratio is as good as your mouth, then I'll shut up.

but Apple is not, not even close.

So how about this? Prove me wrong. Oh wait, you can't, and never will.

So next time if you want to say something, for the sake's of everyone on earth, please just shut up.


RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By Pirks on 2/15/09, Rating: -1
RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By chick0n on 2/15/09, Rating: 0
RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By Pirks on 2/15/09, Rating: -1
RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By chick0n on 2/17/09, Rating: -1
By Pirks on 2/17/2009 4:53:58 PM , Rating: 1
chick0n has posted a total of 240 comments at DailyTech, the average comment rating was -0.02

Well, that explains everything :) I admit I was wrong posting answers to your posts, I should have looked up your rating first.
quote:
I like that -1 on your comment. hahaha :)
[looking at your -1 rating above] hehe, what an irony! :))


RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By reader1 on 2/13/2009 6:07:06 PM , Rating: 2
So don't buy their products. Who's forcing you to buy an iPhone? Google Android phones will have a ton of crappy freeware, viruses and cracked apps. Knock yourself out.


RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By Pirks on 2/13/09, Rating: -1
RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By DEredita on 2/14/2009 1:33:58 AM , Rating: 3
Because it's perfectly fine as a laptop, price was fair (especially when I got it), and it does the job I need it to do, and meets my needs. It's small, was fairly powerful at the time of purchase, light, and easy to lug around. Survived nearly 2 years of carrying it back and forth to work everyday, 2 hours each way.

I'm bashing it, because they're not the same company they were in 2006-2007. What the hell happened to cutting edge? Why the hell is Apple spending more time focused on threatening possible competitors these days, and completely neglecting it's desktop users. Life cycles should be 6-months, and Apple is pushing things for well over a year (see the two year old Mac Mini and the 1+ year old Mac Pro, and the nearly 10 month old iMac).

If I am paying Apple prices, I should be getting the latest and greatest. My Macbook was at the time I purchased mine, but it seems like the days of cutting edge Apple computers are over, and that pisses me off as some who has used Apple products 80%+ of the time over the past 3+ years.



RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By Pirks on 2/14/09, Rating: -1
RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By DEredita on 2/14/2009 2:17:15 AM , Rating: 2
Laptop is mobile, desktop is something that I am going to set down on my desk, and not move for several years.

I'm proficient in Windows, Macs, and Linux. I switch between all three on a day to day basis. I generally do most of my basic task, web surfing, e-mailing, communication with the Mac. Windows is my Virtual machine madness machine, and Linux is a ton of fun for tooling around and experimenting with stuff.


RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By DEredita on 2/14/2009 2:21:03 AM , Rating: 2
I wish Apple had a Core i7 desktop offering, slotted under the Mac Pro, but above the iMac. Something that I can put in 12GB ram, run a few virtual machines across a few monitors. 4GB ram isn't going to cut it for me (iMac maximum addressable limitation) , and a Mac Pro is too expensive.


RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By DEredita on 2/14/2009 2:24:26 AM , Rating: 2
Think of it as if Dell only offered the Studio Hybrid, XPS One, and the Precision as their only desktop models. It's the same thing. And no, I don't think Apple needs a hundred desktop models like Dell and HP, but they should have one more desktop - a headless tower, that is slotted under their high end professional workstation, and above their all-in-one iMac.


RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By DEredita on 2/14/2009 2:29:53 AM , Rating: 2
My ideal workstation would be 24" middle monitor as the main monitor - running native OS X, the right 20" monitor running Vista in a virtual machine, and the left 20" monitor running Linux in another virtual machine.

That's what I'd be happy doing. Running all three platform simultaneously, with OS X being the driving force. I can't do that now, unless I want to bite a very expensive bullet.


RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By DEredita on 2/14/2009 2:38:30 AM , Rating: 2
There is no reason why Apple could not offer a Core i7 desktop system, with 3GB (3x1GB) DDR3 ram (6 available slots - maximum of 12GB DDR3), 640GB main hard drive, 512MB ATI 4850 base video card (with 1GB 4870, 2GB 4870x2, GTX295 video cards all optional) for a base price of $1800. They would definitely make a profit, as Dell currently wants ~ $1400 for the above system with 12GB of ram installed.

That would be a perfect inbetween system to the iMac an the Mac Pro, which should soon be getting Nehalm-based Xeon processors (8 cores with 16 processor threads).


RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By Pirks on 2/14/09, Rating: -1
RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By scrapsma54 on 2/14/2009 1:54:07 PM , Rating: 2
I would love to see apple stoop back down just to see pirks squirm and agonize over his beloved company.

You are full of fail in every article. Get off my internets and quit trolling.


RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By Dark Legion on 2/14/2009 8:11:51 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Threatening competitors? Neglecting desktop users?! What are you talking about??


Did you not read the article? The people that write the apps for the jailbreak are the guys that write better programs for the iPhone than apple (aka competitors)and they aren't stupid enough to let Apple steal their ideas.


RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By Pirks on 2/14/09, Rating: -1
RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By Noliving on 2/14/2009 10:11:47 PM , Rating: 2
I thought they already did with the xna program.


RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By Darkskypoet on 2/13/2009 10:55:17 PM , Rating: 5
I would, in a nanosecond trade my piece of shit iPhone in for a decent Android phone, or a Palm Pre. Oh please, oh please, oh please, oh please let me!!!

Apple not allowing Core to sell their Multi format media player for iPhone was the last bit of icing on the cake. My 3 year old Treo 650 could play DivX, and Xvid... and my iPhone can't cause Jobs is a Rat Fink Bastard.

Is that plain and simple enough for you?

No cut and paste, not a single decent productivity app, a shitty mail client, craptacular SMS that is slower for large convos then my Treo 650!!!! SLOWER.

No native MMS app, a camera that sucks, and no freedom to install a better browser...

I am sorry that I ever got my iPhone... I only bought it, cause I held some sliver of hope that Chairman Jobs might have let better apps then his own into circulation... My bad.

Again, in a nanosecond! Palm, if you are listening... I will personally drive to a Mac Store and throw my iPhone through their window, or peg a 'Genius' in the head with this crappy iPhone if you'll give me a Pre and a key chain. (Key chain totally optional)


By QueBert on 2/15/2009 5:44:00 PM , Rating: 2
Please tell me about this "better browser" that exists. Safari is about 415 times better than even Opera Mini, it's not even close. You picked probably the WORST thing in the world to pick on the iPhone about lol. Jailbreak it and you can install a program that gives you the BEST cut & paste functionality (hands down) mine even has a clipboard that stores the last 10 things I've cut for later use. The iPhone CAN play DiVX without anything, just not AVI DiVX, which is what I'm assuming you're talking about. Apparently you've never heard of MPEG-4, DiVX is a NOT a file format. So you're really mad your phone won't play AVI's, which is not a bad point actually. But I can encode a mpeg4 with the DiVX Codec and have a .mpeg file that's, get this... DIVX! I'm not an Apple fan boi, but if somebody tried to take my iPod Touch away I would kill them. While it has many quirks I don't like, it still can't be touched overall. I Jailbroke it (legal or not) and added functionality for EVERYTHING I needed. And it does all these things better than any WINMO or Palm device I've ever owned. Period. Yes I even like the virtual keyboard...


By Hieyeck on 2/13/2009 11:40:27 PM , Rating: 4
Here's where I'd like to point out to mac supporters, "I told you so". I like a lot of Apple products because, hey, they're actually comfortable to use and if not innovative, thoughtful - who would've thought, a MP3 player that could actually store all (or at least a majority) of the average person's music collection would sell - LAZINESS sells. But what I couldn't stand was the "new" Apple and the consumers they were targeting - preppy artsie snobs.

While they may not have started out that way, companies are shaped by their customers. When you can purchase a similar laptop/computer/whathaveyou for half the price, you're selling to people are saying "Look at me, I have money to burn. I don't care what you think anymore cause I run hell's furnace with my burning money."

Sound familiar?


RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By winterspan on 2/14/2009 2:45:43 AM , Rating: 2
Listen, I'm one of the first to criticize many of Apple's policies and in particular their restrictive iPhone software strategy, not to mention their hairbrained ideas like removing firewire from the Macbook, leaving DVI/VGA/HDMI off their new displays, and letting many of their Mac models languish with old parts and high prices.

That said, parts of your post are exaggeration and some of the claims are sort of ridiculous. It's unfortunate because it ruins what is otherwise a legitimate argument.

"They are stamping out progress in technology"
Considering they have been one of a handful of companies pushing technology forward over the last quarter-century, I have to disagree. Although I disagree with their policies, Apple revolutionized the smartphone market with the iPhone. The entire paradigm of a finger-driven capacitive touchscreen phone with an actual touch-friendly interface wouldn't exist without Apple. Look at the smartphone models that were on the market prior to the iPhone coming out --- it was pathetic.

"They try to aggressive stamp out competition by using their legal team (Google's Android, Palm Pre, Psystar, etc..)"

1) Pystar is hardly fair "competition". I am not going to say what they are doing is illegal, but it certainly isn't totally legit.

2) I don't recall them "Stamping out" Android, and in fact am surprised there is not more animosity between them considering Google's CEO is on Apple's board and they introduced a product that is clearly a major threat to the iPhone platform.

3) Nothing has happened with Palm yet, but If Apple has the patents for a multi-touch smartphone interface, then Palm has to pay up or they get sued.

"they use inferior laptop hardware in their consumer desktop machines"

I don't particularly like the fact that the iMac uses a laptop platform, but the hardware is hardly inferior. They use high-end 45nm Core 2 Duo processors, decent screens, relatively decent GPUs, etc. Now it certainly isn't a Core i7 tower, but it is not meant to be.

Their Macbook Pro and Mac Pro are great machines that use fairly cutting edge hardware.

"propaganda smear campaign commercials"
That's just over the top...

"greedy, money-hungry, monopolistic company."

Which companies exactly aren't "greedy"? Isn't that the point of their existence, and with 20 Billion in the bank and no debt, they've done fairly well. And your "monopoly" accusation is fairly laughable considering that Apple has an ~8% OS marketshare and about ~1% cellphone marketshare.

"Last time I checked, the Mac Mini offers 3 year old computer technology for $600+, the iMac uses inferior laptop hardware, and the Mac Pro costs upwards of $3000+ for a workstation system with outrageously obsolete video cards."

I agree that Apple's strategy of keeping the same components between major updates is a rip-off and doesn't compare well with the traditional PC market, but Apple's systems are priced surprisingly competitively when they are first introduced.
And the GPU issue is most likely more complex than it appears, considering the vast majority of Nvidia and ATIs time is spent on GPUs and drivers for Windows. That said, it is no excuse for the Mini to have GMA950 or the Mac Pro to have a Radeon 2600XT or 8800GT. The good news is that Apple appears to be taking the role of the GPU more seriously.


RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By DEredita on 2/14/2009 6:52:21 PM , Rating: 2
"The good news is that Apple appears to be taking the role of the GPU more seriously. "

This is true, and I am happy to see what they did with the Macbook line, including the white Macbook. I hope they follow though across the whole line with better graphics options.

"I agree that Apple's strategy of keeping the same components between major updates is a rip-off and doesn't compare well with the traditional PC market, but Apple's systems are priced surprisingly competitively when they are first introduced."

Again, I have to agree with you. When released, they are a good by, but by the time the end of their life cycle comes, it's as far from a bargain as you can get.

"removing firewire from the Macbook"

I fogot about that, I remember being pretty upset by this news, as I have a Firewire400 back-up drive for my current white Macbook.

"That said, parts of your post are exaggeration and some of the claims are sort of ridiculous. It's unfortunate because it ruins what is otherwise a legitimate argument."

I guess, but you have to understand, I am kind of bitter by their policies, and the fact that their product line-up doesn't meet my needs. I need a desktop, and not overly thrilled by having to build a Windows workstation.


RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By Pirks on 2/14/09, Rating: -1
RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By WTFiSJuiCE on 2/15/2009 1:38:53 AM , Rating: 1
What, so the almighty Apple is too perfect that it can't be shown its own flaws constructively by its own users?

I happen to think the iMac "looks" nice er...niche er....whatever, but if looks is all I'm going for then I can easily build a PC that looks just as beautiful with more power and equal or less money.

I've got nothing against Mac OS X either, you can see some of the similarities in Win7 and I am loving the beta for that so far.

But lets face it, without their golden marketing crew to push "niche" sales, Apple is merely second rate in the hardware department.
Graphics options are between 2 Radeon HD 2xxx series and an 8800gs? That's pretty "niche", wait no...that "sucks".

There's no reason why Apple couldn't offer a much more diverse line of hardware ranging from low-end to mid-range to high-end Macs as well as allowing more customization and still end up making even more sales.

I think the question is "why don't you stop bitching"?
Your satisfaction w/ Apple aren't = to his needs so please stop trying.


RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By Octoberblue on 2/14/2009 9:33:50 PM , Rating: 3
This is really nothing new from Apple. They've always been this kind of company. Mac loyalists generally stereotype MS as the greedy corporate empire while Mac is supposedly the hippy-friendly flower child company.

What baloney. From the very beginning Apple was a totally proprietary design intended to exclude any type of competition. This of course is why MS won the most important early battles, because they licensed their software to any hardware vendor. Suddenly Mac had hundreds of powerful competitors both in the US and overseas.

I'm not a big fan of MS tactics either, by the way, since their clever play was to gain such preeminence that they could effectively lock out most competition, and buy up the rest. But seriously folks, this is nothing new from Apple. Even today they are the most aggressively proprietary company in the game.

Apple's biggest marketing success has been to sell people a self-image of being creative and hip. If you want the authentic free loving hippy tech experience you have to go to ubuntu or some other linux model. But that does involve some effort and sacrifice, unfortunately. None of this is a criticism against Apples product lines though. They are for the most part, very good.


RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By reader1 on 2/14/2009 10:29:30 PM , Rating: 1
There's nothing wrong with companies having proprietary technology. It encourages competition and innovation. That's why we have patents.


RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By Octoberblue on 2/15/2009 7:34:46 AM , Rating: 2
Never said there was anything wrong with it. My comments were aimed at pointing out that most Apple fans will pay any price for the self-image they are selling. One of the elements of that self-image is that you are associating yourself with a wonderful Utopian type of company. My comments were intended in part to point out that they are no different than any other company, that the self-image you are buying is a hypocritical lie.

If you simply prefer their products, however, then fine. Good for you. Many of people I know love Macs, ipods, etc, because those products meet their needs perfectly and perform exceptionally within that realm. But there's no free love here. This article just illustrates that and exposes the hypocrisy of the image.


RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By Octoberblue on 2/15/2009 7:37:59 AM , Rating: 2
BTW: The thread is about what Apple "has become". I was also just trying to point out that they haven't "become" anything. They've always been a business first. The image was always false.


By reader1 on 2/15/2009 11:06:57 AM , Rating: 2
That's ridiculous. Apple products have always been marketed as exclusive and unique. Jail-breaking an iPhone takes away its uniqueness and makes it like any other smartphone. Trying to prevent jail-breaking is completely consistent with their image and not hypocritical at all.


RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By Reclaimer77 on 2/15/2009 4:52:52 PM , Rating: 1
+6

This is why I don't buy Apple products. It's bad enough you pay an insane premium for average hardware, but then they insist on telling you what to do with it and how you can use it. No thanks.

And Pirks, as usual, all you are doing on this subject is reinforcing everyones stereotypical view of Mac fans.


RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By Pirks on 2/15/09, Rating: -1
RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By Nirach on 2/17/2009 10:38:40 AM , Rating: 1
Dude, you couldn't 'cure' anything.

There is no cure for a blow to the head, so there's no cure for you.

You say people should rethink their opinion based on your posts, but you seem to actively refuse to practice what you preach. I have yet to see your opinion change, anywhere, based on someone elses, or someone elses arguably better (Less sketchy) citations. I'm refering to your activity across the entirity of DT, not just this article.

Sorry, but from a long time Mac user, Apple are overly nannyist with their hardware and software.

Their laptops are not even that well put together - Their cooling setups within the MBP line leave a lot to be desired. There might not be much space, but by god, they could use the space they have go to better effect.

Their Operating System is incredibly zipped up. I don't mind regular security to prevent access to key system files, but when they prevent you from the very basic skin changing, customising login screens etc, that's where I start to take issue. Many people, yourself included, see Apple as the patron saint of personal computing, but in reality, they are doing more to force their standards on people than Microsoft are.

Yes Microsoft bundle media players and browsers, but Apple do this too (Although, Safari is arguably (And demonstratably) better than IE), so they don't get to skip out on that front (Although, they do seem to get away with it within the EU, where MS don't..).

For me, this is the last straw. I have a non-jailbroken iPhone (After the keyboard issue I had, I was reluctant to mess with the software (Please note, it had this issue out of the box)) and a jailbroken iPod Touch, first generation. I bought the latter before the former was even announced, incase you're wondering why I have two touch devices.

I get more use out of my iPod than the phone, because the whole experience is customisable depending on taste/mood, given the fact that it's Jailbroken. I will be getting rid of this iPhone in a similar manner that I did my MBP, when the contract is up, as I have had more than enough of Apples dictator-like stranglehold on everything it sells.

I don't give two shits about the specification of any of their hardware - I know I could build faster and better if I so desired, but frankly, I'm happy with my homebrew PC's and their, since you mentioned them specifically, Lian Li cases.

I hope you don't get ever banned, Pirks, because you bring a smile to my face with every post.


By A Stoner on 2/16/2009 10:56:46 AM , Rating: 3
Apple has not become anything new with this kind of crap. Looking back at their entire history will show that Apple has always (Ab)used the courts and worked diligently to twist the laws to protect their product from all outsiders. I actually had a friend that had an apple made computer (maybe amiga) back in the late 80's early 90's and it was an awesome machine, it had great graphics (I think the game he had on it was elvira), but after reading some of the books that came with his system, it just made me not want to buy one. I got 286 a few months later, then a 386 and then a 386x2. I was able to get software from anywhere for my computers, I was able to change the code of that software to work more in line with what I wanted from it. Notice I use alot of "I" here, when I buy something, I want it to work for me, not 90% of everyone else, just me. The games I play for the longest periods of time are games where I get to make decisions that make an impact, where I can change settings to suit my mood for the day, where I have choice. Games I do not play very long are games that lock down everything to a very strict set of settings, have linear gameplay and so forth. Apple is basicaly a linear game with no options, and now wants to throw you in jail for trying to add options.


Your Phones All Belong To Us
By TomZ on 2/13/2009 1:39:34 PM , Rating: 5
Sure, you can go to the store and spend your hard-earned money to buy an iPhone, but we (Apple) are still going to tell you what you can and cannot do with it. Sheesh.

I'm all for reasonable intellectual property protection, but it's pretty clear that IP protection is being abused here to allow Apple to build a vertical monopoly.




RE: Your Phones All Belong To Us
By Regs on 2/13/2009 1:43:57 PM , Rating: 2
Well, in all fairness to Apple, supercharged Miatas are a lot harder to replicate and redistribute than software on an Iphone.


RE: Your Phones All Belong To Us
By Moishe on 2/13/2009 2:10:18 PM , Rating: 2
So... ease of duplicating is what makes a hack legal or not?

No. something that is illegal is illegal whether it is easy or not.


RE: Your Phones All Belong To Us
By Chocobollz on 2/13/2009 3:23:25 PM , Rating: 3
And who decide whether it's illegal or not? You? Me? The goverment, or... Apple? ;-)


RE: Your Phones All Belong To Us
By Regs on 2/13/2009 6:30:46 PM , Rating: 2
Well yes. We make laws to protect property and to support free enterprise. If we did not enforce or make laws that protect property or the rights of patent holders to make money off their investments, then we would still be living in the stone age.

A holder of a Miata is not going to replicate his car 100x over and sell it on the free market at no price. If he did find a way then obviously Mazda would obviously go after him for patent infrindgement.

I'm not arguing for Apple's side here, but obviously the Miata comparison is a little flawed.


RE: Your Phones All Belong To Us
By Fritzr on 2/15/2009 8:57:19 PM , Rating: 2
Not completely flawed...in the realm of physical items its called counterfeiting. The Rolex watch sold at the Five and Dime is probably not something Rolex knows about :)

Better example is books and copying machines. Scan a popular book into a bookmaking machine, print out a few hundred copies and sell them at a discount ... big profit -- that is commercial piracy.

Apple is claiming that the tools that allow unauthorized apps to run on the iPhone also expose copyrighted software the user is not supposed to be able to tinker with. Since they used DRM to lock the iPhone then they can sue anyone in the US or who is a US citizen for jailbreaking in violation of the DMCA. Legally Apple is asking the courts to enforce the DMCA to protect their proprietary software. They are of course sorry that this prevents users from using the iPhone hardware without first getting an enduser license from Apple :P


RE: Your Phones All Belong To Us
By reader1 on 2/13/09, Rating: 0
RE: Your Phones All Belong To Us
By TomZ on 2/13/2009 3:38:38 PM , Rating: 2
The benefits to a vertical monopoly are all to the company holding the monopoly, Apple in this case. The benefits to customers and society as a whole are basically zero. In this specific case, it limits consumer choice and freedom since it allows Apple to control content offerings, decide policy for the entire market, and to set pricing.

Legal: yes. Nothing wrong: hardly.

But for Apple, this is business as usual. I predict more anti-trust trouble for them in the future as they continue to increase marketshare.


RE: Your Phones All Belong To Us
By reader1 on 2/13/2009 4:15:52 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
The benefits to a vertical monopoly are all to the company holding the monopoly, Apple in this case.


I would certainly hope so, they're paying for it, who else should the profits go to? Microsoft is opening stores now. According to you, this is bad.

quote:
The benefits to customers and society as a whole are basically zero.


Wrong. Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft all limit what can run on their consoles. This benefits them, gamers and developers. Meanwhile, because of Microsoft's OS monopoly, PC gaming declined %14 last year. This is a negative effect from an actual, "horizontal" monopoly.


RE: Your Phones All Belong To Us
By Pirks on 2/13/09, Rating: -1
RE: Your Phones All Belong To Us
By Sandok on 2/14/2009 11:09:33 AM , Rating: 2
A SmartPhone (if you can call the iPhone that) is not the same as an Xbox 360 or PS3... Far from it.

Pirks, just a little question, you DO realize that Apple doesn't pay you to "defend" their products?


RE: Your Phones All Belong To Us
By reader1 on 2/14/2009 12:35:07 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
A SmartPhone (if you can call the iPhone that) is not the same as an Xbox 360 or PS3... Far from it.


An iPhone is the same as an Xbox 360 or PS3. They all have controlled content. Apple doesn't have to allow any software to run on the iPhone just because other smartphone companies do. If you don't want a system with controlled content, don't buy one.


RE: Your Phones All Belong To Us
By Pirks on 2/14/09, Rating: 0
RE: Your Phones All Belong To Us
By jjmcubed on 2/14/2009 7:04:52 PM , Rating: 2
So your saying that you're trolling because they are?

/golfclap


RE: Your Phones All Belong To Us
By Pirks on 2/14/09, Rating: -1
RE: Your Phones All Belong To Us
By SavagePotato on 2/15/2009 12:04:09 PM , Rating: 1
This is awesome news, let me take the opportunity to then say FUCK OFF pirks...

Please renew your prescription meds on Monday.


RE: Your Phones All Belong To Us
By Pirks on 2/15/09, Rating: -1
RE: Your Phones All Belong To Us
By Iger on 2/16/2009 6:58:07 AM , Rating: 2
Ahh! There's a quick learner :P


RE: Your Phones All Belong To Us
By SavagePotato on 2/15/2009 12:00:22 PM , Rating: 2
Right that's why he has like thirty -1 posts to other people before I even noticed and had a great laugh at his maniacal rampage of stupidity... Because he is saving dailytech from me of course.

It's pirks the conquering hero oh awesome I just figured it out...

He is like Henry Rollins cop character in the chase. "To stop crime before it happens you almost have to be telepathic, so I think of myself as sort of a street prophet if you will, busting criminals before they do the crime"

He is out there telepathically stopping trolling through massive counter trolling, Isn't he a hero.


RE: Your Phones All Belong To Us
By Pirks on 2/15/2009 2:13:34 PM , Rating: 1
Could you stop licking Ballmer's buttocks while posting here? It seriously degrades quality of your posts.


RE: Your Phones All Belong To Us
By jjmcubed on 2/16/2009 4:57:13 PM , Rating: 2
Didn't mean that you were a troll, but that is what he was implying. Was trying to point out his impressive logic...


RE: Your Phones All Belong To Us
By mfed3 on 2/17/2009 5:09:35 PM , Rating: 2
get a life?


RE: Your Phones All Belong To Us
By Pirks on 2/13/09, Rating: -1
RE: Your Phones All Belong To Us
By omnicronx on 2/13/2009 4:30:27 PM , Rating: 5
Talk about pulling something out of left field. I can pull random sentences out of a comment too and make an entirely different meaning out of it..

quote:
WinPC user's
Are cool!


RE: Your Phones All Belong To Us
By TomZ on 2/13/2009 4:39:31 PM , Rating: 2
Pirks' ignoring my other points just tells me he agrees with them. :o)


RE: Your Phones All Belong To Us
By Pirks on 2/13/2009 4:52:28 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Pirks' ignoring my other points just tells me he agrees with them
TomZ's ignoring my post above ( http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=14267... ) tells me he agrees with it.


RE: Your Phones All Belong To Us
By TomZ on 2/13/2009 4:54:25 PM , Rating: 3
Oh, did I miss one? Sorry, I'll find that and respond right away.


RE: Your Phones All Belong To Us
By twjr on 2/14/2009 5:15:18 PM , Rating: 5
You only missed it because it hasn't turned red yet.


RE: Your Phones All Belong To Us
By TomZ on 2/13/2009 4:36:44 PM , Rating: 2
The only difference between crapware that used to ship with PCs and the crapware that ships with Macs is that in the case of Macs, it is Apple-branded crapware.

For example, if I bought an OEM PC and it included iTunes, QuickTime, etc., I would complain to the PC vendor that it has crapware on it. That is Apple junk that I don't want loaded.


RE: Your Phones All Belong To Us
By Pirks on 2/13/09, Rating: 0
RE: Your Phones All Belong To Us
By Darkskypoet on 2/14/2009 1:39:13 PM , Rating: 2
You do realize it was Intel that screwed most other OEMs over, by pressuring Microsoft right? The company that makes the more important parts of your Macs now, was the one that pushed MS to lower Vista standards , contrary to MS's deals with all other OEMS...

I mean if you want to pull shit out of your ass.. Please don't be so quick to swallow it in public. Its rather gross.


RE: Your Phones All Belong To Us
By Pirks on 2/14/2009 6:56:13 PM , Rating: 1
Was it Intel who forced OEMs to sell those Vista "capable" shitboxes with 512M RAM? Intel was personally pulling RAM out of those cheapo PC shitboxes and PC notebooks, right?

You can't even swallow it, can ya? Learn to make up BELIEVEABLE lies. This time - epic fail :)))


By Darkskypoet on 2/15/2009 7:38:28 AM , Rating: 2
Well, as to shipping 512mb of ram... there were a decent number of macs shipping with same... OSX on 512Mb of ram isn't all that fun, Intel and MS etc are still doing the court dance, (I think)...

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/microsoft/20...

"Between June 24, 2005, and Jan. 26, 2006, three PC manufacturers — Dell, Sony and Fujitsu — had asked Microsoft for waivers on the WDDM requirements.

Will Poole, who ran Microsoft's Windows Client business at the time, wouldn't budge on the date the marketing program would begin, the motion said.

But the matter caught the attention of Intel CEO Paul Otellini, who wanted to share "feedback" with Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer, according to an e-mail from an Intel executive.

Microsoft continued to deliberate internally and Poole told Intel on Jan. 30 that Microsoft was dropping the WDDM requirement from the Vista Capable program.

Inside Microsoft, the decision was greeted with scorn.

Jim Allchin, then co-president of the Windows division, was described as "apoplectic." When he was briefed on the possibility of dropping WDDM, his initial reaction was "this plan is terrible."

"I believe we are going to be misleading customers with the Capable program," he wrote."


RE: Your Phones All Belong To Us
By PhoenixKnight on 2/14/2009 1:43:37 PM , Rating: 2
Pirks is right on this one. Unlike a lot of the crapware shipped on most Windows PCs, the stuff on Mac doesn't sap away all your memory and processing power. It's also such a pain to remove all the PC crapware that's is generally much easier to simply do a fresh install of Windows.

Really, including iTunes and Quicktime on a Mac isn't really much different than having Windows Movie Maker, Windows Media Player, IE, and Windows Messenger including pre-installed on Windows. It took me months to figure out how to properly remove Windows Messenger. On Mac, you just drag the app from Applications to Trash and you're done.


RE: Your Phones All Belong To Us
By Darkskypoet on 2/14/2009 5:12:11 PM , Rating: 2
Except, that with a PC we can all go down to a plethora of stores, buy any parts we need, and build the system and be crapware free. Apple vs HP/Compaq, Dell, Acer, etc The crapware comments are fair. However PC vs Mac - the crapware comments are crap. Because regardless of the minimalized foot print of some of the mac 'crapware', its still greater then 0, when you just build your own PC.

However, my issue with most Mac hardware (non-system); no direct access natively built in. You must install iTunes for iPods to use the hardware as per Apple 'rules'. iTunes installs Quicktime, tries to pass Safari off as a browser, installs at least 2 or 3 windows services, etc. Whereas many other devices just give you USB Storage device access. Simple. the extra software is optional. Which IMO is the way it should be.


RE: Your Phones All Belong To Us
By Pirks on 2/14/2009 6:48:29 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
with a PC we can al
Who can? You "all" a few techies can? Good for you. I was talking not about you "all" a few techies, I meant general public, i.e. vast majority.

These people can't "go down and buy parts". So your arguments are moot because you talk about different NICHE market. Apple doesn't design its products for this market. End of story.


RE: Your Phones All Belong To Us
By jjmcubed on 2/14/2009 7:10:34 PM , Rating: 2
if your "general public, i.e. vast majority" would take three minutes to do research, they could replace 80% of the parts in a PC in 15 minutes.

Great... now I'm feeding...


RE: Your Phones All Belong To Us
By Pirks on 2/14/2009 7:29:53 PM , Rating: 2
Does this even remotely relate to the original question about general public being experts in ASSEMBLING/HAND BUILDING their own computers? You're not even trying to feed me, 'cause I can't answer to your post. It's totally unrelated to what we were discussing above. Try harder next time :)


RE: Your Phones All Belong To Us
By jjmcubed on 2/16/2009 5:01:27 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Try harder next time


This isn't personal, and i'm not trying to put you down. It is a discussion. Why do you insist on putting multiple people down?


RE: Your Phones All Belong To Us
By Pirks on 2/16/2009 5:04:36 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Why do you insist on putting multiple people down?
For the same reason they try to put me down.


By PhoenixKnight on 2/14/2009 11:14:54 PM , Rating: 2
True, but those parts that can be changed in 15 minutes with 3 minutes of research can also be replaced in a Mac. A friend of mine saved several hundreds of dollars when she purchased her Power Mac by buying it with only 2 gigs of RAM, then buying an additional 4GB of RAM and a 500GB hdd on newegg. Since Macs use virtually the same hardware as PC, it's much easier to change hardware inside Macs than it used to be.

And if you're interested in having the best of both worlds, you can just build a typical PC and install OS X onto it as a Hackintosh.


RE: Your Phones All Belong To Us
By Darkskypoet on 2/15/2009 7:51:40 AM , Rating: 2
LoL.. I am feeding too.. Cause really, Pirks if you can't? Then someone should have set you in front of the Lego bin at pre-school a little more often. Further, you can easily have a small firm assemble yours for around $50.

The major part of this, is that for love nor money; I am not allowed to build my own mac. So fine. I guess we'll just have to be in trouble for building our own macs.. Which are just PCs... So why buy a mac again?

***As to your niche market comment, contrary to popular belief, some mac uses can install expansion cards onto mother boards, and they don't all faint at the site of unsocketed processors. Really you shouldn't be so hard on your 'niche' market like that.

The real strength in the PC ecosystem; is that we've assimilated nearly everything, including your Mac! Sorry Pirks; All your Base Belong to Us.

Apple's just another PC manufacturer now, and one thats lost its instruction set protection. Too bad their Legal isn't nearly as good as our 'niche markets' team of tinkerers.


RE: Your Phones All Belong To Us
By Pirks on 2/15/2009 2:21:13 PM , Rating: 2
Well, I _CAN_ assemble my computer, but I realized a long time ago that I am a minority and most other people CAN NOT do that, they just need a reliable PC from a store, which is in most cases best served by buying a Mac.

The difference between me and you and other trolls like chicko and SavagePotato is that I understand that I am a techie and hence a minority, and you DO NOT understand this, you think that EVERYBODY is like you. Grow up then.


RE: Your Phones All Belong To Us
By twjr on 2/15/2009 7:30:17 AM , Rating: 2
While I exclusively disagree with the trash that comes off of Pirks' keyboard, there is often far to much crap bundled with new computers these days. To the point that I have never even booted up the install that came with any computer I have purchased from an OEM. It is just far easier to do a fresh install.

However, Apple is by no means innocent of bundling crap with their software. My dad for instance needed to run some Quicktime videos (who knows why)and so installed the player. But thanks to Apple they now guerilla iTunes and Safari as default to install alongside. I just told him to use vlc. Not only is it way more simple and versatile but you wont end up with the extra software installed.


RE: Your Phones All Belong To Us
By Pirks on 2/15/2009 2:35:44 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Apple is by no means innocent of bundling crap with their software
I was talking about crap bundled with HARDWARE, not SOFTWARE. FAIL! :P


By captainentropy on 2/15/2009 7:53:50 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
I predict more anti-trust trouble for them in the future as they continue to increase marketshare.

Agreed.

I have an iPhone 3G. I'm not a mac fan by any means, I think they are ridiculously overhyped. I have an Acer notebook and frankenbox desktop. But one reason I got the iphone was because of all the different apps (google maps rules!), the excellent email support, above-average mobile browser, and nice news feed apps. But then I find that apple kills a lot of apps that sound awesome for who knows why. No video recording on the iPhone? Are you fucking serious? It's a great video playing/photo taking device, why the cripple? That's reason #1 I jailbreaked mine (which was ridiculously easy, very little tech knowhow needed). The other reason was I thought I could get via jailbreak was what most every other smartphone in existence has by default: the ability to record phone conversations. I can't tell you how many times I've been on a tech support call or customer service call with a bank, car/health insurance, etc. only to be either inundated with stuff I need to know for later or to have a record of what dumbass rep said today that isn't correct when I call back later (I'm looking at you DirecTV and DMV).

Apple, open up what you allow on the iphone! Fart sounds and levels are fine but I'd gladly pay for a stable videorecorder app and record-a-call app. If it has to pass a stability test before you allow fine, but don't dismiss apps by fiat.


RE: Your Phones All Belong To Us
By omnicronx on 2/13/2009 3:53:54 PM , Rating: 5
quote:
Microsoft bans anyone using a cracked Xbox 360 on Live. According to you, they shouldn't.
Xbox live is a service, they have the legal right to limit who and what can use that service. MS never made the claim that modding your 360 is illegal, nor did they make the claim that using a modded 360 on xbox live is illegal. One of the rules of the agreement you had to accept when signing up for live disallows the use of modded consoles, never does it mention the legality of doing so.

I also agree with their stance on live, I remember playing Phantasy star online back in the day for Dreamcast, and people used to hack their systems to do a bunch of nasty stuff online that simply ruined the game for everyone. Disallowing modded consoles is the only way to keep the integrity of the system.

Meanwhile modding your iphone has absolutely no effect on others.


RE: Your Phones All Belong To Us
By reader1 on 2/13/2009 4:59:16 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Meanwhile modding your iphone has absolutely no effect on others.


It absolutely does. Microsoft isn't banning people from live because they might cheat, they're banning them for piracy. Piracy kills software sales and drives developers away. That's why Bungie, id, Valve, Epic, Crytek and other PC game developers are all now focused on consoles while the PC is getting console ports.


RE: Your Phones All Belong To Us
By Zapp Brannigan on 2/13/2009 6:25:02 PM , Rating: 2
That's a ridiculous statement. id, Valve and Crytek have never made games for a console first and ported the pc version from it. Hell, Crytek have never made a console game! Sure, they release games on consoles but never are the pc versions the ports. Bungie were bought by microsoft ages ago, so had to leave pc development to make xbox games, as microsoft told them to. Epic made Gears of Wars for the Xbox first, but the PC version had extra content to make it superior.

Still, the PC does get a load of crappy licensed console port games, but it always has, so nothing new there.


RE: Your Phones All Belong To Us
By Pirks on 2/13/2009 6:29:31 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Epic made Gears of Wars for the Xbox first, but the PC version had extra content to make it superior
Unfortunately this does not compensate the lack of GeoW 2 for PC.


RE: Your Phones All Belong To Us
By reader1 on 2/13/2009 6:37:38 PM , Rating: 2
And the Gears 1 port was so buggy, pirates didn't even want it.


RE: Your Phones All Belong To Us
By Pirks on 2/13/2009 6:45:06 PM , Rating: 2
Haven't seen a single bug on my gaming rig but heard from Epic that they are not happy with GeoW PC sales so looks like that one was the first and the last game from GeoW universe we'll ever see on PC. Which is pretty sad :~-(


RE: Your Phones All Belong To Us
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 2/16/2009 3:59:06 PM , Rating: 2
On the PC market, expectations as to what makes a good FPS is higher. Look no further than Halo. PC users were 2 generations beyond in gameplay and graphics, yet Console gamers wet themselves over it.


RE: Your Phones All Belong To Us
By Pirks on 2/16/2009 4:38:57 PM , Rating: 2
I agree with you on graphics, but not on gameplay. There's not a lot of PC shooters that are as much fun as Halo. ESPECIALLY on legendary. Vietcong is the only PC shooter I can directly compare against Halo on legendary, with regard to fun and difficulty and beyond-human reaction/precision required to survive.

And GeoW 1 on a hardest level? If you say console FPS are not fun - you never tried to beat RAAM on the hardest level, this is incredible!!!


Copyright violation?
By dwalton on 2/13/2009 1:57:12 PM , Rating: 5
Could a publisher sue me if say I bought the Lord of the Rings books and then used white-out to erase the parts of story I didn't like and used a pen to write in what I thought made the story better?

How can copyright laws be used in this fashion when it comes to software? People aren't redistributing their jailbroke Iphones for profit, so why does Apple's greedy need to control the Iphone software trumph my right to tweak my iphone as I wish.




RE: Copyright violation?
By Moishe on 2/13/2009 2:08:21 PM , Rating: 2
Yes, IF you republished your version.

but your analogy is wrong because jailbreakers (afaik) are not republishing Apple's code. They are merelypublishing their own code that happens to break into Apple's code.
If I am wrong about that, please correct me.

If jailbreaking involves redistributing a hacked version of Apple's bootloader then I can see how Apple will have a case against that method of jailbreaking.


RE: Copyright violation?
By amanojaku on 2/13/2009 2:13:27 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
A jailbreak is the act of breaking out of a chroot or jail in UNIX-like operating systems or bypassing digital rights management (DRM). It is a specific form of privilege escalation. In the context of the iPhone, it allows the user to run arbitrarily defined code or applications, bypassing Apple's code distribution mechanism (the iTunes App Store and the iTunes Application). The iPhone and iPod touch have repeatedly been subject to jailbreaks, allowing the execution of arbitrary code, but have had those jailbreaks disabled by vendor updates.[1] [2] The iPod Touch/iPhone hacking community however, responds to the newest vendor updates by creating new ways to enable third party apps almost immediately. The popularity of iPhone jailbreaking in turn popularized the term "jailbreak": for example, in early 2009, more Google-indexed Web pages mention the word in relation to the iPhone (3,140,000) than in any other context (e.g. prison escapes) (2,230,000). According to archive.org, the first DRM-related definition of the term jailbreak was added to the "Urban Dictionary" in December 2007 and referenced the recently released iPhone.[3]

Jailbreaking is distinct from "unlocking". Unlocking is the process by which a mobile device is made compatible with telephone networks it was not specifically licensed to be used with.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jailbreak_(iPhone)


RE: Copyright violation?
By dwalton on 2/13/2009 2:18:08 PM , Rating: 3
Apple claims that the act of jailbreaking is illegal.

That means if Lord of the Rings was printed with anti-white out ink and I went of the internet and I downloaded instructions for circumventing the PRM (printed rights management) of the ink then my act of putting in my own parts of the story would be illegal.

How about this...if I made a kit with white-out and a pen and called it the "Jail break your Books" kit, then could I be sued by every publisher in the world?


RE: Copyright violation?
By Chocobollz on 2/13/2009 3:28:50 PM , Rating: 2
Ok, here's another analogy. Let's say you're buying a motorbike. Then you you want to mod that motorbike because you think that some of its parts aren't suit your need (lets say you want it to be an off-road motorbike). So, you're open the engine (the Apple's code?), change some parts with another one and also change its tire with a tire specially made for off-road. Is that wrong? Or the analogy is incorrect?


RE: Copyright violation?
By Fritzr on 2/16/2009 8:08:22 PM , Rating: 2
The analogy is incorrect. If the bike's parts are sealed and there was a Federal law that made breaking those seals by anyone not holding a valid permit illegal, then the analogy would be correct.

Apple is saying that the iPhone has a DRM mechanism. Jailbreaking circumvents the iPhone DRM system allowing it to be used in violation of the Apple enduser license. The DMCA makes it a Federal crime to circumvent DRM without the permission of whoever owns the right to modify it.

By adding discussion of why the DRM is being circumvented they are obscuring the basic legal premise that Apple is using.

In tautology form
DRM is legally installed
bypassing DRM==illegal
jailbreak==bypassing DRM
gives
jailbreak==illegal


Jailbreaking may actually help profits
By HelToupee on 2/13/2009 3:10:54 PM , Rating: 5
I bought my iPod Touch for the purpose of running "unauthorized" code (before the app store). If App Store apps are not strong enough to stand on their own against freely-distributed apps that are available through Cydia and Installer, then I say, "let them die." I mean, come on, Apple, how many $0.99 iFart apps, or Bejeweled clones do you really need?

I paid good money for the hardware, I expect to be able to use it in any way I see fit. The position Apple's taking is akin to Microsoft trying to stop you from running Netscape on Windows. That didn't go so well for them, and that particular case set some very clear legal precedent in the matter.

Now, those of you ne'er-do-wells out there that are jailbreaking your iPhone/iPod Touch for the purpose of pirating App Store apps -- for shame. That is most definitely illegal.




By reader1 on 2/13/2009 6:13:25 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I paid good money for the hardware, I expect to be able to use it in any way I see fit.


They told you up front that you couldn't. If that isn't what you wanted, you shouldn't have bought it.


RE: Jailbreaking may actually help profits
By Regs on 2/13/2009 7:40:30 PM , Rating: 2
Everything you buy is on terms, conditions, and limitations. It's only when they effect you, or bight you in the butt, is when people cry bloody murder. The TV you bought at Best Buy likely has a few pages dedicated to liabilities and conditions in its manual, and the terms of sale on the Best Buy receipt covers the back with fine print.

No one cares to read them until it actually effects them.

Me and masher share the same opinion. Though by popular opinion a lot would disagree with us. And I bet that same majority never bother to read the fine print. This system was point in place a long time ago for both the payee and offeree benefit. No need to be resentful or angry at it because look how far it got us. Flat screen TVs, portable phones that can access the web, and video games that could entertain us for days-on-end. It's when people start abusing the system is when we no longer see the benefit of free and equal trade.


By Brainonska511 on 2/14/2009 12:14:49 AM , Rating: 3
Fine print isn't always legally binding.


Quite clear
By BigPeen on 2/13/2009 4:52:03 PM , Rating: 2
It's anti competetive, pure and simple. It's just a matter of time and size till behavior like this is deemed illegal (I'm guessing).




RE: Quite clear
By reader1 on 2/13/2009 5:36:16 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
It's anti competetive...


No, it's just the opposite. They're trying to prevent piracy, which harms competition.


RE: Quite clear
By HrilL on 2/13/2009 8:10:53 PM , Rating: 2
Where? I saw no such agreements until after it was bought. You agreed only if you activated it yourself on iTunes if not then you never in fact agreed to anything other than your AT&T contract that was signed but I don't remember that saying anything about not letting me run applications of my choosing.


tv commercial
By shin0bi272 on 2/13/2009 7:52:02 PM , Rating: 2
This sort of thing makes the Macolites sound like they are the ones who are the conformists like in their famous 1984 super bowl commercial huh? Obey Apple or they'll throw you in jail.




RE: tv commercial
By Pirks on 2/13/2009 8:33:56 PM , Rating: 1
Nobody ever thrown anyone in jail for cracking iPhone, so stop bitching


RE: tv commercial
By captainentropy on 2/15/2009 8:40:57 PM , Rating: 2
LOL. Very appropos.

"Think Different!" (so long as your thinking different doesn't infringe on our patents, copyrights, DRM, etc.)


First Sale
By Natfly on 2/13/2009 3:16:26 PM , Rating: 4
I would think that jail breaking an iPhone would be covered under First Sale Doctrine. It's a shame that the DMCA has crushed so many rights.




Pirks is comedy
By cogito on 2/15/2009 11:40:05 AM , Rating: 2
I like how Pirks has posted about 80 times in this thread in the last two days. I also find it funny that (what seems to be) at least half of his posts are rated down and that basically everyone is arguing against him. I certainly hope he's done so on the go from an Iphone or something. I just find it sad imagining him sitting on his computer arguing so long about such a pointless subject. Seriously dude, why do you care so much?




RE: Pirks is comedy
By Pirks on 2/15/2009 2:42:49 PM , Rating: 2
First, you should ask local chicko/potato trolls why do THEY care so much about me. They look like the flies and I'm the sugar? I'm puzzled. Why are they all onto me here? Got any idea? :)


On the forums...
By Neutrion on 2/15/2009 2:54:05 AM , Rating: 3
This is an interesting topic. The problem here is the individuals ruining it for everyone....your Pirks, beenthere, PLAYSTATIONTHREE types. Why ruin a good place for this sort of activity?




RE: On the forums...
By Pirks on 2/15/09, Rating: 0
It'll be easy to avoid
By corduroygt on 2/13/2009 2:04:20 PM , Rating: 2
Just don't buy that POS. I have a macbook, but I'd never buy the iphone since it's missing the features from my 2007 model phone such as bluetooth sync/modem, quality digital camera, voip support built into the OS, video capture.




By Chocobollz on 2/14/2009 2:02:41 PM , Rating: 2
By SiliconAddict on 2/15/2009 12:23:45 AM , Rating: 2
and shove it up your ***.

Sincerely,

Someone who will never touch your **** ever again.




By hameed on 2/15/2009 5:33:15 AM , Rating: 2
..And a court in France said phone locking is illegal.

Go figure!




trollest of trolls
By soundrave on 2/16/2009 3:18:52 AM , Rating: 2
i thought console gaming trolls were idiots.. but pirks manage to overthrow just about every other trolls out there...




2 cent
By Szeto on 2/16/2009 1:30:11 PM , Rating: 2
Jobs is just doing his job in my opinion ... perhaps he did it in the way that most people dislike but isn't that his job?

i suppose if we all try and see it from the other poster's point of view perhaps we won't have as much flaming going on.




The picture of Steve Jobs....
By LorKha on 2/13/2009 1:42:14 PM , Rating: 1
I see that picture and then I can picture him yelling...

YYYYYYOOOOOOOOOOOOUUUUUUUUUUU!

following with the Soulja Boy - Crank Dat dance.




Damn you Apple!
By icanhascpu on 2/13/09, Rating: 0
RE: Damn you Apple!
By joey2264 on 2/13/2009 1:57:41 PM , Rating: 1
Uhm, how does outlawing jailbreaking "protect their investment and partnership with AT&T"? It doesn't even seem like Apple is making that arguement. It might protect the investment of app store developers, who don't want see their work pirated.

Regardless, the benefits to jailbreaking (access to programs that were capriciously rejected by Apple for inclusion in the App Store), far outweigh those few consumers that grow through the trouble of pirating apps.


Of course
By Shark Tek on 2/13/2009 1:58:10 PM , Rating: 1
Of course is illegal because Apple, they want to protect their income on the apple store. And since jailbraking allows to install third party tools from many others sources they're very worried.




Another Apple Article
By chrish89 on 2/13/09, Rating: -1
RE: Another Apple Article
By TomZ on 2/13/2009 2:07:01 PM , Rating: 5
Don't you expect some "hate" when Apple does something so obviously "wrong"?


RE: Another Apple Article
By Pirks on 2/13/09, Rating: -1
RE: Another Apple Article
By TomZ on 2/13/2009 2:25:11 PM , Rating: 4
No I wouldn't. I'm not a control freak with an ego the size of California.

But at the same time I wouldn't be that successful either.


RE: Another Apple Article
By Pirks on 2/13/09, Rating: -1
RE: Another Apple Article
By omnicronx on 2/13/2009 3:59:16 PM , Rating: 3
Go read a history book and see how 'control' has worked out for others throughout the course of history.

Control leads to over expansion, over expansion leads to revolt, revolts leads to.. you get the picture.


RE: Another Apple Article
By Pirks on 2/13/09, Rating: -1