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Print 353 comment(s) - last by Pirks.. on Feb 20 at 11:22 PM


  (Source: Wired)
Apple and the EFF trade words over jailbreaking iPhones

In comments filed with the U.S. Copyright Office as part of the 2009 Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA) triennial rulemaking, jailbreaking the popular iPhone effectively is copyright infringement and a DMCA violation, Apple claims.

The Copyright Office comes together every three years to hear cases for exemption requests, and the Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) filed an exemption request seeking exemption for consumers looking to jailbreak the iPhone so it can use independent software not sold through the App Store.

Apple fired back with comments essentially saying jailbreaking "involves infringing uses of the bootloader and OS, the copyrighted works that are protected by the TPMs being circumvented."  The company also said "It will destroy the technological protection of Apple's key copyrighted computer programs in the iPhone device itself and of copyrighted content owned by Apple that plays on the iPhone."

Although many phone owners already jailbreak their iPhones, this marks the first time Apple publicly said jailbreaking is illegal.  The Cupertino-based company is working to try and stop the proliferation of jailbreaking, and isn't necessarily looking to outright ban jailbreaking -- something it knows it will not be able to realistically accomplish.

The EFF and Apple are now engaged in a back-and-forth war of words, with the EFF saying the following in a press release: 

If this sounds like FUD, that's because it is.  One need only transpose Apple's arguments to the world of automobiles to recognize their absurdity. Sure, GM might tell us that, for our own safety, all servicing should be done by an authorized GM dealer using only genuine GM parts. Toyota might say that swapping your engine could reduce the reliability of your car. And Mazda could say that those who throw a supercharger on their Miatas frequently exceed the legal speed limit.


The non-profit group then says, "We'd never accept this corporate paternalism as a justification for welding every car hood shut and imposing legal liability on car buffs tinkering in their garages."

Despite fighting the "good fight" many iPhone owners would likely support, don't be surprised to see if this particular exemption is denied by the Copyright Office in the near future.



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I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By DEredita on 2/13/2009 1:59:54 PM , Rating: 4
I absolutely hate what Apple has become. They are stamping out progress in technology, if it doesn't meet their strict specifications. They try to aggressive stamp out competition by using their legal team (Google's Android, Palm Pre, Psystar, etc..), they use inferior laptop hardware in their consumer desktop machines, they have propaganda smear campaign commercials, and they appear to be nothing more than a greedy, money-hungry, monopolistic company.
People are buying on to all their lies of offering superior cutting edge technology. Last time I checked, the Mac Mini offers 3 year old computer technology for $600+, the iMac uses inferior laptop hardware, and the Mac Pro costs upwards of $3000+ for a workstation system with outrageously obsolete video cards.




RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By DEredita on 2/13/2009 2:03:18 PM , Rating: 4
I pray that this recession bites them on the ass, and pushes them to encourage competition and innovation, at a fair price. Right now, all I see is nothing more than corporate bullying, since they have gone unchecked, and almost everyone today is scared to step up to them. They can get away with outrageous pricing on outdated junk in a fancy candy shell, and make it seem like it's a technological achievement.


RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By Pirks on 2/13/09, Rating: 0
RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By DEredita on 2/13/2009 2:33:47 PM , Rating: 2
I'm a Mac user, thank you very much. I have a 2.16 GHz C2D Macbook, but there is nothing below a Mac Pro, that can satisfy my desktop computing needs.


RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By Pirks on 2/13/09, Rating: 0
By Chocobollz on 2/13/2009 3:38:57 PM , Rating: 1
Apparently he isn't one of peoples I've said here: http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=14267... ;-)

Are you one of that peoples? :-)


By HighWing on 2/14/2009 6:33:10 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
but there is nothing below a Mac Pro,

That is because the only thing on the market with specs below that are netbooks. *laughs* So yeah you are right there is "nothing" below your Macbook.


By Chocobollz on 2/13/2009 3:35:01 PM , Rating: 5
quote:
yet again Apple posts another profitable quarter

Have you ever heard this quote, "God must love stupid people because he made so many." before? I think that explains it ;-)


RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By omnicronx on 2/13/2009 3:43:06 PM , Rating: 5
MS laid off its workers because their profits did not meet expectations, they are still making more money than Apple, and they are NOT dipping into their reserves.
quote:
Keep barking, market realities don't pay attention to you bashers :-P
Yes they do, thanks for pointing that out;

Apple Q4 profit: $1.61 billion

Microsoft Q4 profit: $4.17 billion

Thanks for playing !


RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By Pirks on 2/13/09, Rating: 0
RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By TomZ on 2/13/2009 4:10:31 PM , Rating: 5
That's silly - the amount of cash on hand is hardly a single-point indicator of the health or value of a company. As your linked article points out, Microsoft has been putting its cash to work, whereas Apple has been letting it accumulate. So big deal.


RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By Pirks on 2/13/09, Rating: 0
RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By TSS on 2/13/2009 8:02:02 PM , Rating: 1
in the past 3 months, Iphone revenue has risen about 30% from 3.5 billion to 4.6 billion total.

their revenue overall went up 558 million, their net income went up 26 million.

if people where buying as many iphones in december as they where in september, their net income would've been far, far lower.

it certainly isn't the mac that's saving them, it's the Iphone. and news like this news topic is exactly what's going to stop the rise in iphone sales.


RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By Pirks on 2/13/09, Rating: 0
By Hieyeck on 2/13/2009 11:48:07 PM , Rating: 4
Sure, jailbreaking is probably done by techies and techies alone... Cept my phone-nut friend makes an easy 2000 a month jailbreaking (and patching) phones on weekends for his friends and friend's friends and friend's friend's friends and... you get the point. The people have spoken, they want control over their iPhone.


RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By Elrondolio on 2/16/2009 12:51:56 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
Declaring jailbreaking illegal will only affect a few techies who are a minority. hence this won't affect iPhone sales in any noticeable way.


Hardly... it doesn't matter if only a small subset of iPhoners jailbreak their phone. Apples continuing anti-consumer moves are eroding the public's perception of the company. Once you're seen as a tyrant its an extremely slippery slope (the RIAA conglomerate can speak well to this).

This type of behavior and resulting bad mojo from consumers is *exactly* what Microsoft has been digging itself out of since the DOJ actions 10ish years ago... with some decent and surprising success. Most companies fail badly trying to reverse course once they've pissed off consumers because they don't recognize when its too late to do so (SCO, RAMBUS, etc).

Apple is still at the top of the design heap. But they're digging themselves into a collapse from the bottom of their success with continuing anti-consumer moves like this... many jailbreakers or no.


By robinthakur on 2/18/2009 8:17:24 AM , Rating: 2
Are you brain dead? As somebody who has owned 3 iPhones but only has a contract for my current 3G, Jailbreaking was useful for a while, but I was never under any illusions whatsoever that it wasn't an after market modification much akin to using the Twilight Hack on the Wii, and the steps you had to take to reflash the phone and then install the installer programs was for the purpose of circumventing the copy protection installed in the phone. I think that is actually a breach of the DMCA, regardless of how many people do it. Apple have not been nearly as ruthless as most of you seem to think they are, its incredibly difficult to brick an iPhone completely even when jailbreaking, and they are just protecting their customers from buying unlocked iPhones.

Articles like this will absolutely NOT damage iPhone sales because most users and potential users see the fact that the apps are vetted by apple in an appstore environment as a positive thing, and hence why so many vendors have copied them. The Installer on my jailbroken iphones was way ahead of its time and great, but the quality of Apps is way higher through the App store and the updates etc work way better.

You also have the problem where people resell these jailbroken phones to people who don't understand that you can't just plug them into iTunes and update them when a new firmware comes out. Who picks up the tab in that case? Apple? The end user?


RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By omnicronx on 2/13/2009 4:20:52 PM , Rating: 5
While I admit, I was wrong about the reserves (although Toms already pointed out why this does not matter, as does your linked article) you were still wrong about the point that matters(the main point of your post). You clearly stated Microsoft is losing money, when in reality their profits are still four times higher than Apples.


RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By Pirks on 2/13/09, Rating: -1
By mars777 on 2/13/2009 7:46:41 PM , Rating: 1
It was 16 years ago. Apple was never closer to going out of business. Microsoft did not give Apple $200,000,000 but bought that much worth of stock from Apple and believe me they made a lot of money out of it. It was not a gift but a good investment.


RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By KCjoker on 2/13/2009 6:50:00 PM , Rating: 1
People are bashing what they're doing which of course you didn't address in your post.


RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By CvP on 2/14/2009 3:10:56 AM , Rating: 4
Pirks has posted a total of 2086 comments at DailyTech, the average comment rating was 0.93.


RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By SavagePotato on 2/14/2009 5:11:20 PM , Rating: 3
That's cause he is the most asinine apple shill the internet has ever seen. Even the other apple fanboys that inhabit dailytech probably look at him and roll their eyes.

He is almost on par with the troll playstation three for useless post volume to me.


RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By Pirks on 2/13/09, Rating: -1
RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By omnicronx on 2/13/2009 3:45:43 PM , Rating: 5
Are you telling me nothing about this article phases you at all?

The problem is worse than I thought... now I can see why Apple gets away with it.


RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By TomZ on 2/13/2009 3:52:26 PM , Rating: 2
Yeah, last month built a quad-core i7 with 3X the RAM and 2X the HDD size for about $1000 lower than that price. :o)

But I'll admit the dual-socket option is a nice feature.


RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By Pirks on 2/13/09, Rating: -1
RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By TomZ on 2/13/2009 4:15:32 PM , Rating: 5
No, of course not. This machine is so ridiculously fast with 4 cores already. Plus it's Core i7, not Core 2 like the Mac. And it uses DDR3, not DDR2. Plus I've got 10K RPM VelociRaptor drives, not 7200RPM drives. Well...you get the idea.


RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By Pirks on 2/13/09, Rating: -1
RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By LRonaldHubbs on 2/13/2009 5:29:07 PM , Rating: 5
Your posts contain an alarming quantity of fail.


RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By Pirks on 2/13/09, Rating: -1
By EntreHoras on 2/14/2009 5:00:52 AM , Rating: 4
They are ignoring you.


RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By exanimas on 2/13/2009 6:13:34 PM , Rating: 2
Hahaha, why would he bother putting OSX on that machine? Waste.


RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By Pirks on 2/13/09, Rating: -1
By DEredita on 2/13/2009 6:49:10 PM , Rating: 2
My favorite flavor of Vista was the 64-bit Business edition. Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit is much nicer than Vista, runs quicker, and uses less RAM.


By wetwareinterface on 2/13/2009 6:41:55 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Try to assemble same high quality parts PC with Lian Li aluminum case, six quiet thermal controlled fans etc etc, with two socket server mobo on the same chipset as Mac Pro, and Mac OS X license and you'll see that the price will be the same $2300 or about that. Hence your "$1000 point" is moot.


would be a piece of cake to come in under the mac pro price with better hardware. for example dual socket motherboard is only $250 more than core 17 compatible board for high end workstation board. for the extra $750 i could add a whole lot to that machine. say crossfire 4870 x2 with an additional 4870 for tri crossfire. or how about just going with extra ram and a single 4870 x2. since we're talking core 2 quads you could get around 12-16 Gb more ram for that extra $350 with some sales pricing. etc...

and lian li is not the case i'd pick. they are okay but a bit cramped for all the extra hardware you could stuff into a case for $1000. the cooler master cosmos is a better choice probably.

and i would never run osx on a machine at this time. i tried it out for a bit with the osx-86 hacked installer stuff out there but the os was crap. it just didn't work for me. couldn't stand the network configuration utilities, the lack of any decent 3d games is obvious, photoshop ran slower on it than under xp or even vista, the music making apps i use were not compatible and logic is so convoluted to get anything basic setup that i'd never spend $500 for an app like it. the mac offered me nothing over windows technically and only offered me a bouncing icon vs. a color changing blink for an inactive window that needed attention as far as gui superiority over even win xp let alone vista.


By wetwareinterface on 2/13/2009 6:44:00 PM , Rating: 2
and yes i know we are talking core 2 quad with fb dimms as the core 2 quad is a xeon part. i only meant architecturally we are talking core 2 quad as in vs. i7.


RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By Pirks on 2/13/09, Rating: -1
By mars777 on 2/13/2009 8:10:14 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Hacked OS X which you tried to make into Windows? Hehe, that speaks volumes :) Nice try


I have it too, and it runs smoother than my fathers original. We have about the same configurations (mobo difference) (except for my GPU - 8800GT vs 7600GT - but that shouldn't influence)

Nevertheless by having triple boot, i spend most time under linux (ubuntu) - but that's because i like tinkering with the OS :P


By Dark Legion on 2/14/2009 3:56:34 AM , Rating: 1
I would pay to NOT put OSX on my computer, especially with specs like those, it would just be a waste.


RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By Pirks on 2/13/09, Rating: -1
By nidomus on 2/15/2009 1:42:03 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Because Apple barks instead of biting.


So... you're comparing Apple to a small yappy dog? Appropriate.


RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By DEredita on 2/13/2009 4:01:39 PM , Rating: 5
I can't justify the price of the Mac Pro - $2,149.00 for a 2.8 GHz quad-core Xeon system with 2GB FB-DIMM ram, and a 256MB ATI 2600XT video card. There is no way in hell I can justify spending that much money on that hardware.

Hand-built, for ~$2300, I can do (2) 2.5 GHz Xeon quad-core processors, dual-socket motherboard, 32GB FB-DIMM server ram, 9800GTX video card, server case, PSU, and (2) 640GB hard drives.


RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By Pirks on 2/13/09, Rating: -1
RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By TomZ on 2/13/2009 4:38:34 PM , Rating: 5
quote:
Do you also hand build your cars?
If I could shop for parts quickly on the Internet, have them shipped via UPS, then put them together in an hour or two, and get exactly what I wanted and save 20% or more (40% compared to Apple), I would do it.


By omnicronx on 2/13/2009 4:53:30 PM , Rating: 5
Exactly! Everyone likes getting a deal. This is the main reason why I don't buy Apple products, not because I dislike Apple as a brand.

I love shopping around and getting the best bang for my buck. If thats not your thing, then all the power to you... but that does not make me an 'Apple Hater', it just makes me a smart shopper. (Not that buying Apple makes you a bad shopper, I just feel unless they are the only ones with a product that suits your needs, you are probably not getting the best possible deal). Then again, what other people buy is none of my business, but if you are going to preach about it, prepare to hear my point of view on the matter.


RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By Pirks on 2/13/09, Rating: -1
RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By cherrycoke on 2/13/2009 7:28:22 PM , Rating: 2
something about "then put them together in an hour or two"
was left out of your rebuttal.. your point is moot.


RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By theapparition on 2/13/2009 10:23:10 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
Some people still build cars by hand, and they make them better and cheaper than factory made cars. Aren't you ashamed by this, Tom? ;-) You paid extra XYZ thousand bucks for an INFERIOR car! Oh da horror! :)))

Absolutely no one can build a superior car by hand for cheaper than a mass produced models. Can't be done.

Analogy FAIL.

There are some very nice hand made cars, even kits, but tend to be vastly more expensive than competitive models. And anything cheaper, is way inferior.

About the nicest kits that you can buy are the Factory Five's. Getting ready to place my GTM order. And believe me, it's not cheap.


RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By Pirks on 2/13/09, Rating: -1
RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By SlyNine on 2/14/2009 2:03:30 AM , Rating: 2
Wow, You missed the point all together, were not talking about brands. Do you read what you type?

He's not saying, No one can build a Chevy Impala, He's saying no one can build a CAR as good as the Chevy Impala by hand as cheap AND as good by hand/kit.

As far as laptops, Never priced a do it your self. But their are a lot better options from the competitors.


RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By Dark Legion on 2/14/2009 4:19:56 AM , Rating: 1
No, he will build his own brand of computer and make it FAR superior to any iMac or Macbook. We are PC, we can do that.


RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By 67STANG on 2/15/2009 2:19:35 AM , Rating: 1
Just wanted to issue a small correction:
Anyone can build a superior computer, for less money than Apple.

Other than that, spot on.


By kmmatney on 2/14/2009 12:30:58 AM , Rating: 2
Epic fail


RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By chick0n on 2/13/2009 4:21:28 PM , Rating: 5
Dont waste your time with Apple fanboi like Pirks

Apple can just shit in their boxes and people like Pirks will buy it. Cuz its Apple's shit. It must be some good shit.

I can Build any computer with the price of anything Apple has WHILE beating it in performance and price. Try me.


RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By Pirks on 2/13/09, Rating: -1
RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By TomZ on 2/13/2009 4:53:09 PM , Rating: 5
I'm guessing by your reaction that there must be some truth to the OP's statement that upset you. Maybe Jobs should start up his new product offering: iCrap. :o)


RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By Pirks on 2/13/09, Rating: -1
RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By DEredita on 2/13/2009 5:54:27 PM , Rating: 4
I apologize that you feel so offended by the topic. Hope your weekend is a bit better.


RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By Pirks on 2/13/09, Rating: -1
RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By DEredita on 2/13/2009 6:47:54 PM , Rating: 3
Ok, cool. I am just a multi-OS user. I run my Macbook for basic things, e-mail, web, and various OSX apps. But, it is not good at multi-virtual machine madness. That's where my Dell Workstation comes in handy.

On the Dell - with a 256MB video card, 2.4 GHz dual-core CPU, and 8GB ram, it's multi-monitor, multi-virtual machine madness. I have Windows 7 running as the main OS - so I can run it though it's paces for testing purposes, then have three virtual machines: Linux, Win XP, and Win Vista. I also run remote-desktop sessions. This machine usually does fine, but I utilize 5.25 GB to 7.2+ GB ram. I would like something with a bit horsepower and ram.

I am not exactly anti-Mac, as I love the OS X operating system. It's just their hardware is lacking for my needs, and the Mac Pro is far outside my price range. There is no middle ground, and that boils my blood. It also doesn't help that lately, it appears Apple is more concerned with crushing competition, than working on innovative computer technology and options.


RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By Pirks on 2/13/09, Rating: -1
RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By WTFiSJuiCE on 2/13/2009 7:51:18 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
Now that's pretty stupid. There are no cheap Ferraris or Bugattis, no cheap private airplanes, no cheap diamonds *fixed* etc. Does it boil your blood too? You're really strange.


Using Ferraris and Bugattis to make your point about there being no middle ground w/ Mac computers? Now that is pretty stupid.

The quality of hardware that you get in macs are not close to being in the super range, let alone justifying the price range they are in. Using examples of Exotic or Super cars to justify your point is pretty laughable.

For the record, Macs aren't bad but they are overpriced.

As for the article, yes Jobs' autocratic idiocy in the industry did make him sick. Let us hope his doctors find a cure for both.


By Springfield45 on 2/13/2009 10:54:47 PM , Rating: 5
Admins! Are you awake? Do we really have to put up with this stuff?


RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By SlyNine on 2/14/2009 2:09:42 AM , Rating: 2
Comparing Apple stuff to a Bugatti veyron, Is out of touch with reality. Apple often makes inferior products and sales them for much more. Where as the Bugatti is a vastly superior product, sold for more.

I could see you buying Steves' Icrap.


RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By pattycake0147 on 2/14/2009 6:42:07 PM , Rating: 3
Does Ferrari tells it buyers they can't modify their car because it's illegal. (note the topic of the article)

Does Bugatti sue other companies for making cheaper alternatives. (read Psystar)

Does Cessna sue Boeing for using common features that any aircraft manufacturer can implement. (multi-touch Palm)

You're not the only one with valid points and much of what you say just doesn't hold water when you expand you're narrow view of the world.


RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By Pirks on 2/14/09, Rating: -1
RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By Noliving on 2/14/2009 10:03:52 PM , Rating: 3
No but they have threatend legal action especially with google.


By wetwareinterface on 2/13/2009 6:50:45 PM , Rating: 2
the troll speaks of other types of trolls under his bridge? but doesn't know he's a troll?


RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By Pirks on 2/13/09, Rating: -1
RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By MamiyaOtaru on 2/13/2009 7:41:22 PM , Rating: 2
Who's the more troll? the troll or the troll who trolls him?


By WTFiSJuiCE on 2/13/2009 7:55:30 PM , Rating: 2
What is the calculated weight ratio of a swallow?


By Neutrion on 2/15/2009 2:50:16 AM , Rating: 1
You're enjoying it? Congrats flamer, you are the bait :(


By Springfield45 on 2/13/2009 10:52:02 PM , Rating: 5
Seriously! Admins! Start jumping all over this sort of thing. Please!


RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By SavagePotato on 2/14/2009 5:17:34 PM , Rating: 5
Pirks is really off his meds this week based on his epic number of -1 posts in one thread. Him and PLAYSTATIONTHREE could get together for valentines day and make beautiful music together.


By toolguy on 2/13/2009 8:23:03 PM , Rating: 2
Wow. Good one guy.


RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By Springfield45 on 2/13/2009 10:49:53 PM , Rating: 2
I think it is time for the admins to start banning folks for this sort of invective.


RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By Pirks on 2/14/09, Rating: -1
RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By SlyNine on 2/14/2009 2:11:57 AM , Rating: 2
It is a good thing, To bad they don't ban trolls like you though.


RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By chick0n on 2/15/2009 12:37:32 AM , Rating: 1
If Apple's price/performance ratio is as good as your mouth, then I'll shut up.

but Apple is not, not even close.

So how about this? Prove me wrong. Oh wait, you can't, and never will.

So next time if you want to say something, for the sake's of everyone on earth, please just shut up.


RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By Pirks on 2/15/09, Rating: -1
RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By chick0n on 2/15/09, Rating: 0
RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By Pirks on 2/15/09, Rating: -1
RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By chick0n on 2/17/09, Rating: -1
By Pirks on 2/17/2009 4:53:58 PM , Rating: 1
chick0n has posted a total of 240 comments at DailyTech, the average comment rating was -0.02

Well, that explains everything :) I admit I was wrong posting answers to your posts, I should have looked up your rating first.
quote:
I like that -1 on your comment. hahaha :)
[looking at your -1 rating above] hehe, what an irony! :))


RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By reader1 on 2/13/2009 6:07:06 PM , Rating: 2
So don't buy their products. Who's forcing you to buy an iPhone? Google Android phones will have a ton of crappy freeware, viruses and cracked apps. Knock yourself out.


RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By Pirks on 2/13/09, Rating: -1
RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By DEredita on 2/14/2009 1:33:58 AM , Rating: 3
Because it's perfectly fine as a laptop, price was fair (especially when I got it), and it does the job I need it to do, and meets my needs. It's small, was fairly powerful at the time of purchase, light, and easy to lug around. Survived nearly 2 years of carrying it back and forth to work everyday, 2 hours each way.

I'm bashing it, because they're not the same company they were in 2006-2007. What the hell happened to cutting edge? Why the hell is Apple spending more time focused on threatening possible competitors these days, and completely neglecting it's desktop users. Life cycles should be 6-months, and Apple is pushing things for well over a year (see the two year old Mac Mini and the 1+ year old Mac Pro, and the nearly 10 month old iMac).

If I am paying Apple prices, I should be getting the latest and greatest. My Macbook was at the time I purchased mine, but it seems like the days of cutting edge Apple computers are over, and that pisses me off as some who has used Apple products 80%+ of the time over the past 3+ years.



RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By Pirks on 2/14/09, Rating: -1
RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By DEredita on 2/14/2009 2:17:15 AM , Rating: 2
Laptop is mobile, desktop is something that I am going to set down on my desk, and not move for several years.

I'm proficient in Windows, Macs, and Linux. I switch between all three on a day to day basis. I generally do most of my basic task, web surfing, e-mailing, communication with the Mac. Windows is my Virtual machine madness machine, and Linux is a ton of fun for tooling around and experimenting with stuff.


RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By DEredita on 2/14/2009 2:21:03 AM , Rating: 2
I wish Apple had a Core i7 desktop offering, slotted under the Mac Pro, but above the iMac. Something that I can put in 12GB ram, run a few virtual machines across a few monitors. 4GB ram isn't going to cut it for me (iMac maximum addressable limitation) , and a Mac Pro is too expensive.


RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By DEredita on 2/14/2009 2:24:26 AM , Rating: 2
Think of it as if Dell only offered the Studio Hybrid, XPS One, and the Precision as their only desktop models. It's the same thing. And no, I don't think Apple needs a hundred desktop models like Dell and HP, but they should have one more desktop - a headless tower, that is slotted under their high end professional workstation, and above their all-in-one iMac.


RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By DEredita on 2/14/2009 2:29:53 AM , Rating: 2
My ideal workstation would be 24" middle monitor as the main monitor - running native OS X, the right 20" monitor running Vista in a virtual machine, and the left 20" monitor running Linux in another virtual machine.

That's what I'd be happy doing. Running all three platform simultaneously, with OS X being the driving force. I can't do that now, unless I want to bite a very expensive bullet.


RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By DEredita on 2/14/2009 2:38:30 AM , Rating: 2
There is no reason why Apple could not offer a Core i7 desktop system, with 3GB (3x1GB) DDR3 ram (6 available slots - maximum of 12GB DDR3), 640GB main hard drive, 512MB ATI 4850 base video card (with 1GB 4870, 2GB 4870x2, GTX295 video cards all optional) for a base price of $1800. They would definitely make a profit, as Dell currently wants ~ $1400 for the above system with 12GB of ram installed.

That would be a perfect inbetween system to the iMac an the Mac Pro, which should soon be getting Nehalm-based Xeon processors (8 cores with 16 processor threads).


RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By Pirks on 2/14/09, Rating: -1
RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By scrapsma54 on 2/14/2009 1:54:07 PM , Rating: 2
I would love to see apple stoop back down just to see pirks squirm and agonize over his beloved company.

You are full of fail in every article. Get off my internets and quit trolling.


RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By Dark Legion on 2/14/2009 8:11:51 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Threatening competitors? Neglecting desktop users?! What are you talking about??


Did you not read the article? The people that write the apps for the jailbreak are the guys that write better programs for the iPhone than apple (aka competitors)and they aren't stupid enough to let Apple steal their ideas.


RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By Pirks on 2/14/09, Rating: -1
RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By Noliving on 2/14/2009 10:11:47 PM , Rating: 2
I thought they already did with the xna program.


RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By Darkskypoet on 2/13/2009 10:55:17 PM , Rating: 5
I would, in a nanosecond trade my piece of shit iPhone in for a decent Android phone, or a Palm Pre. Oh please, oh please, oh please, oh please let me!!!

Apple not allowing Core to sell their Multi format media player for iPhone was the last bit of icing on the cake. My 3 year old Treo 650 could play DivX, and Xvid... and my iPhone can't cause Jobs is a Rat Fink Bastard.

Is that plain and simple enough for you?

No cut and paste, not a single decent productivity app, a shitty mail client, craptacular SMS that is slower for large convos then my Treo 650!!!! SLOWER.

No native MMS app, a camera that sucks, and no freedom to install a better browser...

I am sorry that I ever got my iPhone... I only bought it, cause I held some sliver of hope that Chairman Jobs might have let better apps then his own into circulation... My bad.

Again, in a nanosecond! Palm, if you are listening... I will personally drive to a Mac Store and throw my iPhone through their window, or peg a 'Genius' in the head with this crappy iPhone if you'll give me a Pre and a key chain. (Key chain totally optional)


By QueBert on 2/15/2009 5:44:00 PM , Rating: 2
Please tell me about this "better browser" that exists. Safari is about 415 times better than even Opera Mini, it's not even close. You picked probably the WORST thing in the world to pick on the iPhone about lol. Jailbreak it and you can install a program that gives you the BEST cut & paste functionality (hands down) mine even has a clipboard that stores the last 10 things I've cut for later use. The iPhone CAN play DiVX without anything, just not AVI DiVX, which is what I'm assuming you're talking about. Apparently you've never heard of MPEG-4, DiVX is a NOT a file format. So you're really mad your phone won't play AVI's, which is not a bad point actually. But I can encode a mpeg4 with the DiVX Codec and have a .mpeg file that's, get this... DIVX! I'm not an Apple fan boi, but if somebody tried to take my iPod Touch away I would kill them. While it has many quirks I don't like, it still can't be touched overall. I Jailbroke it (legal or not) and added functionality for EVERYTHING I needed. And it does all these things better than any WINMO or Palm device I've ever owned. Period. Yes I even like the virtual keyboard...


By Hieyeck on 2/13/2009 11:40:27 PM , Rating: 4
Here's where I'd like to point out to mac supporters, "I told you so". I like a lot of Apple products because, hey, they're actually comfortable to use and if not innovative, thoughtful - who would've thought, a MP3 player that could actually store all (or at least a majority) of the average person's music collection would sell - LAZINESS sells. But what I couldn't stand was the "new" Apple and the consumers they were targeting - preppy artsie snobs.

While they may not have started out that way, companies are shaped by their customers. When you can purchase a similar laptop/computer/whathaveyou for half the price, you're selling to people are saying "Look at me, I have money to burn. I don't care what you think anymore cause I run hell's furnace with my burning money."

Sound familiar?


RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By winterspan on 2/14/2009 2:45:43 AM , Rating: 2
Listen, I'm one of the first to criticize many of Apple's policies and in particular their restrictive iPhone software strategy, not to mention their hairbrained ideas like removing firewire from the Macbook, leaving DVI/VGA/HDMI off their new displays, and letting many of their Mac models languish with old parts and high prices.

That said, parts of your post are exaggeration and some of the claims are sort of ridiculous. It's unfortunate because it ruins what is otherwise a legitimate argument.

"They are stamping out progress in technology"
Considering they have been one of a handful of companies pushing technology forward over the last quarter-century, I have to disagree. Although I disagree with their policies, Apple revolutionized the smartphone market with the iPhone. The entire paradigm of a finger-driven capacitive touchscreen phone with an actual touch-friendly interface wouldn't exist without Apple. Look at the smartphone models that were on the market prior to the iPhone coming out --- it was pathetic.

"They try to aggressive stamp out competition by using their legal team (Google's Android, Palm Pre, Psystar, etc..)"

1) Pystar is hardly fair "competition". I am not going to say what they are doing is illegal, but it certainly isn't totally legit.

2) I don't recall them "Stamping out" Android, and in fact am surprised there is not more animosity between them considering Google's CEO is on Apple's board and they introduced a product that is clearly a major threat to the iPhone platform.

3) Nothing has happened with Palm yet, but If Apple has the patents for a multi-touch smartphone interface, then Palm has to pay up or they get sued.

"they use inferior laptop hardware in their consumer desktop machines"

I don't particularly like the fact that the iMac uses a laptop platform, but the hardware is hardly inferior. They use high-end 45nm Core 2 Duo processors, decent screens, relatively decent GPUs, etc. Now it certainly isn't a Core i7 tower, but it is not meant to be.

Their Macbook Pro and Mac Pro are great machines that use fairly cutting edge hardware.

"propaganda smear campaign commercials"
That's just over the top...

"greedy, money-hungry, monopolistic company."

Which companies exactly aren't "greedy"? Isn't that the point of their existence, and with 20 Billion in the bank and no debt, they've done fairly well. And your "monopoly" accusation is fairly laughable considering that Apple has an ~8% OS marketshare and about ~1% cellphone marketshare.

"Last time I checked, the Mac Mini offers 3 year old computer technology for $600+, the iMac uses inferior laptop hardware, and the Mac Pro costs upwards of $3000+ for a workstation system with outrageously obsolete video cards."

I agree that Apple's strategy of keeping the same components between major updates is a rip-off and doesn't compare well with the traditional PC market, but Apple's systems are priced surprisingly competitively when they are first introduced.
And the GPU issue is most likely more complex than it appears, considering the vast majority of Nvidia and ATIs time is spent on GPUs and drivers for Windows. That said, it is no excuse for the Mini to have GMA950 or the Mac Pro to have a Radeon 2600XT or 8800GT. The good news is that Apple appears to be taking the role of the GPU more seriously.


RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By DEredita on 2/14/2009 6:52:21 PM , Rating: 2
"The good news is that Apple appears to be taking the role of the GPU more seriously. "

This is true, and I am happy to see what they did with the Macbook line, including the white Macbook. I hope they follow though across the whole line with better graphics options.

"I agree that Apple's strategy of keeping the same components between major updates is a rip-off and doesn't compare well with the traditional PC market, but Apple's systems are priced surprisingly competitively when they are first introduced."

Again, I have to agree with you. When released, they are a good by, but by the time the end of their life cycle comes, it's as far from a bargain as you can get.

"removing firewire from the Macbook"

I fogot about that, I remember being pretty upset by this news, as I have a Firewire400 back-up drive for my current white Macbook.

"That said, parts of your post are exaggeration and some of the claims are sort of ridiculous. It's unfortunate because it ruins what is otherwise a legitimate argument."

I guess, but you have to understand, I am kind of bitter by their policies, and the fact that their product line-up doesn't meet my needs. I need a desktop, and not overly thrilled by having to build a Windows workstation.


RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By Pirks on 2/14/09, Rating: -1
RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By WTFiSJuiCE on 2/15/2009 1:38:53 AM , Rating: 1
What, so the almighty Apple is too perfect that it can't be shown its own flaws constructively by its own users?

I happen to think the iMac "looks" nice er...niche er....whatever, but if looks is all I'm going for then I can easily build a PC that looks just as beautiful with more power and equal or less money.

I've got nothing against Mac OS X either, you can see some of the similarities in Win7 and I am loving the beta for that so far.

But lets face it, without their golden marketing crew to push "niche" sales, Apple is merely second rate in the hardware department.
Graphics options are between 2 Radeon HD 2xxx series and an 8800gs? That's pretty "niche", wait no...that "sucks".

There's no reason why Apple couldn't offer a much more diverse line of hardware ranging from low-end to mid-range to high-end Macs as well as allowing more customization and still end up making even more sales.

I think the question is "why don't you stop bitching"?
Your satisfaction w/ Apple aren't = to his needs so please stop trying.


RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By Octoberblue on 2/14/2009 9:33:50 PM , Rating: 3
This is really nothing new from Apple. They've always been this kind of company. Mac loyalists generally stereotype MS as the greedy corporate empire while Mac is supposedly the hippy-friendly flower child company.

What baloney. From the very beginning Apple was a totally proprietary design intended to exclude any type of competition. This of course is why MS won the most important early battles, because they licensed their software to any hardware vendor. Suddenly Mac had hundreds of powerful competitors both in the US and overseas.

I'm not a big fan of MS tactics either, by the way, since their clever play was to gain such preeminence that they could effectively lock out most competition, and buy up the rest. But seriously folks, this is nothing new from Apple. Even today they are the most aggressively proprietary company in the game.

Apple's biggest marketing success has been to sell people a self-image of being creative and hip. If you want the authentic free loving hippy tech experience you have to go to ubuntu or some other linux model. But that does involve some effort and sacrifice, unfortunately. None of this is a criticism against Apples product lines though. They are for the most part, very good.


RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By reader1 on 2/14/2009 10:29:30 PM , Rating: 1
There's nothing wrong with companies having proprietary technology. It encourages competition and innovation. That's why we have patents.


RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By Octoberblue on 2/15/2009 7:34:46 AM , Rating: 2
Never said there was anything wrong with it. My comments were aimed at pointing out that most Apple fans will pay any price for the self-image they are selling. One of the elements of that self-image is that you are associating yourself with a wonderful Utopian type of company. My comments were intended in part to point out that they are no different than any other company, that the self-image you are buying is a hypocritical lie.

If you simply prefer their products, however, then fine. Good for you. Many of people I know love Macs, ipods, etc, because those products meet their needs perfectly and perform exceptionally within that realm. But there's no free love here. This article just illustrates that and exposes the hypocrisy of the image.


RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By Octoberblue on 2/15/2009 7:37:59 AM , Rating: 2
BTW: The thread is about what Apple "has become". I was also just trying to point out that they haven't "become" anything. They've always been a business first. The image was always false.


By reader1 on 2/15/2009 11:06:57 AM , Rating: 2
That's ridiculous. Apple products have always been marketed as exclusive and unique. Jail-breaking an iPhone takes away its uniqueness and makes it like any other smartphone. Trying to prevent jail-breaking is completely consistent with their image and not hypocritical at all.


RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By Reclaimer77 on 2/15/2009 4:52:52 PM , Rating: 1
+6

This is why I don't buy Apple products. It's bad enough you pay an insane premium for average hardware, but then they insist on telling you what to do with it and how you can use it. No thanks.

And Pirks, as usual, all you are doing on this subject is reinforcing everyones stereotypical view of Mac fans.


RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By Pirks on 2/15/09, Rating: -1
RE: I absolutely hate what Apple has become
By Nirach on 2/17/2009 10:38:40 AM , Rating: 1
Dude, you couldn't 'cure' anything.

There is no cure for a blow to the head, so there's no cure for you.

You say people should rethink their opinion based on your posts, but you seem to actively refuse to practice what you preach. I have yet to see your opinion change, anywhere, based on someone elses, or someone elses arguably better (Less sketchy) citations. I'm refering to your activity across the entirity of DT, not just this article.

Sorry, but from a long time Mac user, Apple are overly nannyist with their hardware and software.

Their laptops are not even that well put together - Their cooling setups within the MBP line leave a lot to be desired. There might not be much space, but by god, they could use the space they have go to better effect.

Their Operating System is incredibly zipped up. I don't mind regular security to prevent access to key system files, but when they prevent you from the very basic skin changing, customising login screens etc, that's where I start to take issue. Many people, yourself included, see Apple as the patron saint of personal computing, but in reality, they are doing more to force their standards on people than Microsoft are.

Yes Microsoft bundle media players and browsers, but Apple do this too (Although, Safari is arguably (And demonstratably) better than IE), so they don't get to skip out on that front (Although, they do seem to get away with it within the EU, where MS don't..).

For me, this is the last straw. I have a non-jailbroken iPhone (After the keyboard issue I had, I was reluctant to mess with the software (Please note, it had this issue out of the box)) and a jailbroken iPod Touch, first generation. I bought the latter before the former was even announced, incase you're wondering why I have two touch devices.

I get more use out of my iPod than the phone, because the whole experience is customisable depending on taste/mood, given the fact that it's Jailbroken. I will be getting rid of this iPhone in a similar manner that I did my MBP, when the contract is up, as I have had more than enough of Apples dictator-like stranglehold on everything it sells.

I don't give two shits about the specification of any of their hardware - I know I could build faster and better if I so desired, but frankly, I'm happy with my homebrew PC's and their, since you mentioned them specifically, Lian Li cases.

I hope you don't get ever banned, Pirks, because you bring a smile to my face with every post.


By A Stoner on 2/16/2009 10:56:46 AM , Rating: 3
Apple has not become anything new with this kind of crap. Looking back at their entire history will show that Apple has always (Ab)used the courts and worked diligently to twist the laws to protect their product from all outsiders. I actually had a friend that had an apple made computer (maybe amiga) back in the late 80's early 90's and it was an awesome machine, it had great graphics (I think the game he had on it was elvira), but after reading some of the books that came with his system, it just made me not want to buy one. I got 286 a few months later, then a 386 and then a 386x2. I was able to get software from anywhere for my computers, I was able to change the code of that software to work more in line with what I wanted from it. Notice I use alot of "I" here, when I buy something, I want it to work for me, not 90% of everyone else, just me. The games I play for the longest periods of time are games where I get to make decisions that make an impact, where I can change settings to suit my mood for the day, where I have choice. Games I do not play very long are games that lock down everything to a very strict set of settings, have linear gameplay and so forth. Apple is basicaly a linear game with no options, and now wants to throw you in jail for trying to add options.


Your Phones All Belong To Us
By TomZ on 2/13/2009 1:39:34 PM , Rating: 5
Sure, you can go to the store and spend your hard-earned money to buy an iPhone, but we (Apple) are still going to tell you what you can and cannot do with it. Sheesh.

I'm all for reasonable intellectual property protection, but it's pretty clear that IP protection is being abused here to allow Apple to build a vertical monopoly.




RE: Your Phones All Belong To Us
By Regs on 2/13/2009 1:43:57 PM , Rating: 2
Well, in all fairness to Apple, supercharged Miatas are a lot harder to replicate and redistribute than software on an Iphone.


RE: Your Phones All Belong To Us
By Moishe on 2/13/2009 2:10:18 PM , Rating: 2
So... ease of duplicating is what makes a hack legal or not?

No. something that is illegal is illegal whether it is easy or not.


RE: Your Phones All Belong To Us
By Chocobollz on 2/13/2009 3:23:25 PM , Rating: 3
And who decide whether it's illegal or not? You? Me? The goverment, or... Apple? ;-)


RE: Your Phones All Belong To Us
By Regs on 2/13/2009 6:30:46 PM , Rating: 2
Well yes. We make laws to protect property and to support free enterprise. If we did not enforce or make laws that protect property or the rights of patent holders to make money off their investments, then we would still be living in the stone age.

A holder of a Miata is not going to replicate his car 100x over and sell it on the free market at no price. If he did find a way then obviously Mazda would obviously go after him for patent infrindgement.

I'm not arguing for Apple's side here, but obviously the Miata comparison is a little flawed.


RE: Your Phones All Belong To Us
By Fritzr on 2/15/2009 8:57:19 PM , Rating: 2
Not completely flawed...in the realm of physical items its called counterfeiting. The Rolex watch sold at the Five and Dime is probably not something Rolex knows about :)

Better example is books and copying machines. Scan a popular book into a bookmaking machine, print out a few hundred copies and sell them at a discount ... big profit -- that is commercial piracy.

Apple is claiming that the tools that allow unauthorized apps to run on the iPhone also expose copyrighted software the user is not supposed to be able to tinker with. Since they used DRM to lock the iPhone then they can sue anyone in the US or who is a US citizen for jailbreaking in violation of the DMCA. Legally Apple is asking the courts to enforce the DMCA to protect their proprietary software. They are of course sorry that this prevents users from using the iPhone hardware without first getting an enduser license from Apple :P


RE: Your Phones All Belong To Us
By reader1 on 2/13/09, Rating: 0
RE: Your Phones All Belong To Us
By TomZ on 2/13/2009 3:38:38 PM , Rating: 2
The benefits to a vertical monopoly are all to the company holding the monopoly, Apple in this case. The benefits to customers and society as a whole are basically zero. In this specific case, it limits consumer choice and freedom since it allows Apple to control content offerings, decide policy for the entire market, and to set pricing.

Legal: yes. Nothing wrong: hardly.

But for Apple, this is business as usual. I predict more anti-trust trouble for them in the future as they continue to increase marketshare.


RE: Your Phones All Belong To Us
By reader1 on 2/13/2009 4:15:52 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
The benefits to a vertical monopoly are all to the company holding the monopoly, Apple in this case.


I would certainly hope so, they're paying for it, who else should the profits go to? Microsoft is opening stores now. According to you, this is bad.

quote:
The benefits to customers and society as a whole are basically zero.


Wrong. Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft all limit what can run on their consoles. This benefits them, gamers and developers. Meanwhile, because of Microsoft's OS monopoly, PC gaming declined %14 last year. This is a negative effect from an actual, "horizontal" monopoly.


RE: Your Phones All Belong To Us
By Pirks on 2/13/09, Rating: -1
RE: Your Phones All Belong To Us
By Sandok on 2/14/2009 11:09:33 AM , Rating: 2
A SmartPhone (if you can call the iPhone that) is not the same as an Xbox 360 or PS3... Far from it.

Pirks, just a little question, you DO realize that Apple doesn't pay you to "defend" their products?


RE: Your Phones All Belong To Us
By reader1 on 2/14/2009 12:35:07 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
A SmartPhone (if you can call the iPhone that) is not the same as an Xbox 360 or PS3... Far from it.


An iPhone is the same as an Xbox 360 or PS3. They all have controlled content. Apple doesn't have to allow any software to run on the iPhone just because other smartphone companies do. If you don't want a system with controlled content, don't buy one.


RE: Your Phones All Belong To Us
By Pirks on 2/14/09, Rating: 0
RE: Your Phones All Belong To Us
By jjmcubed on 2/14/2009 7:04:52 PM , Rating: 2
So your saying that you're trolling because they are?

/golfclap


RE: Your Phones All Belong To Us
By Pirks on 2/14/09, Rating: -1
RE: Your Phones All Belong To Us
By SavagePotato on 2/15/2009 12:04:09 PM , Rating: 1
This is awesome news, let me take the opportunity to then say FUCK OFF pirks...

Please renew your prescription meds on Monday.


RE: Your Phones All Belong To Us
By Pirks on 2/15/09, Rating: -1
RE: Your Phones All Belong To Us
By Iger on 2/16/2009 6:58:07 AM , Rating: 2
Ahh! There's a quick learner :P


RE: Your Phones All Belong To Us
By SavagePotato on 2/15/2009 12:00:22 PM , Rating: 2
Right that's why he has like thirty -1 posts to other people before I even noticed and had a great laugh at his maniacal rampage of stupidity... Because he is saving dailytech from me of course.

It's pirks the conquering hero oh awesome I just figured it out...

He is like Henry Rollins cop character in the chase. "To stop crime before it happens you almost have to be telepathic, so I think of myself as sort of a street prophet if you will, busting criminals before they do the crime"

He is out there telepathically stopping trolling through massive counter trolling, Isn't he a hero.


RE: Your Phones All Belong To Us
By Pirks on 2/15/2009 2:13:34 PM , Rating: 1
Could you stop licking Ballmer's buttocks while posting here? It seriously degrades quality of your posts.


RE: Your Phones All Belong To Us
By jjmcubed on 2/16/2009 4:57:13 PM , Rating: 2
Didn't mean that you were a troll, but that is what he was implying. Was trying to point out his impressive logic...


RE: Your Phones All Belong To Us
By mfed3 on 2/17/2009 5:09:35 PM , Rating: 2
get a life?


RE: Your Phones All Belong To Us
By Pirks on 2/13/09, Rating: -1
RE: Your Phones All Belong To Us
By omnicronx on 2/13/2009 4:30:27 PM , Rating: 5
Talk about pulling something out of left field. I can pull random sentences out of a comment too and make an entirely different meaning out of it..

quote:
WinPC user's
Are cool!


RE: Your Phones All Belong To Us
By TomZ on 2/13/2009 4:39:31 PM , Rating: 2
Pirks' ignoring my other points just tells me he agrees with them. :o)


RE: Your Phones All Belong To Us
By Pirks on 2/13/2009 4:52:28 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Pirks' ignoring my other points just tells me he agrees with them
TomZ's ignoring my post above ( http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=14267... ) tells me he agrees with it.


RE: Your Phones All Belong To Us
By TomZ on 2/13/2009 4:54:25 PM , Rating: 3
Oh, did I miss one? Sorry, I'll find that and respond right away.


RE: Your Phones All Belong To Us
By twjr on 2/14/2009 5:15:18 PM , Rating: 5
You only missed it because it hasn't turned red yet.


RE: Your Phones All Belong To Us
By TomZ on 2/13/2009 4:36:44 PM , Rating: 2
The only difference between crapware that used to ship with PCs and the crapware that ships with Macs is that in the case of Macs, it is Apple-branded crapware.

For example, if I bought an OEM PC and it included iTunes, QuickTime, etc., I would complain to the PC vendor that it has crapware on it. That is Apple junk that I don't want loaded.


RE: Your Phones All Belong To Us
By Pirks on 2/13/09, Rating: 0
RE: Your Phones All Belong To Us
By Darkskypoet on 2/14/2009 1:39:13 PM , Rating: 2
You do realize it was Intel that screwed most other OEMs over, by pressuring Microsoft right? The company that makes the more important parts of your Macs now, was the one that pushed MS to lower Vista standards , contrary to MS's deals with all other OEMS...

I mean if you want to pull shit out of your ass.. Please don't be so quick to swallow it in public. Its rather gross.


RE: Your Phones All Belong To Us
By Pirks on 2/14/2009 6:56:13 PM , Rating: 1
Was it Intel who forced OEMs to sell those Vista "capable" shitboxes with 512M RAM? Intel was personally pulling RAM out of those cheapo PC shitboxes and PC notebooks, right?

You can't even swallow it, can ya? Learn to make up BELIEVEABLE lies. This time - epic fail :)))


By Darkskypoet on 2/15/2009 7:38:28 AM , Rating: 2
Well, as to shipping 512mb of ram... there were a decent number of macs shipping with same... OSX on 512Mb of ram isn't all that fun, Intel and MS etc are still doing the court dance, (I think)...

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/microsoft/20...

"Between June 24, 2005, and Jan. 26, 2006, three PC manufacturers — Dell, Sony and Fujitsu — had asked Microsoft for waivers on the WDDM requirements.

Will Poole, who ran Microsoft's Windows Client business at the time, wouldn't budge on the date the marketing program would begin, the motion said.

But the matter caught the attention of Intel CEO Paul Otellini, who wanted to share "feedback" with Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer, according to an e-mail from an Intel executive.

Microsoft continued to deliberate internally and Poole told Intel on Jan. 30 that Microsoft was dropping the WDDM requirement from the Vista Capable program.

Inside Microsoft, the decision was greeted with scorn.

Jim Allchin, then co-president of the Windows division, was described as "apoplectic." When he was briefed on the possibility of dropping WDDM, his initial reaction was "this plan is terrible."

"I believe we are going to be misleading customers with the Capable program," he wrote."


RE: Your Phones All Belong To Us
By PhoenixKnight on 2/14/2009 1:43:37 PM , Rating: 2
Pirks is right on this one. Unlike a lot of the crapware shipped on most Windows PCs, the stuff on Mac doesn't sap away all your memory and processing power. It's also such a pain to remove all the PC crapware that's is generally much easier to simply do a fresh install of Windows.

Really, including iTunes and Quicktime on a Mac isn't really much different than having Windows Movie Maker, Windows Media Player, IE, and Windows Messenger including pre-installed on Windows. It took me months to figure out how to properly remove Windows Messenger. On Mac, you just drag the app from Applications to Trash and you're done.


RE: Your Phones All Belong To Us
By Darkskypoet on 2/14/2009 5:12:11 PM , Rating: 2
Except, that with a PC we can all go down to a plethora of stores, buy any parts we need, and build the system and be crapware free. Apple vs HP/Compaq, Dell, Acer, etc The crapware comments are fair. However PC vs Mac - the crapware comments are crap. Because regardless of the minimalized foot print of some of the mac 'crapware', its still greater then 0, when you just build your own PC.

However, my issue with most Mac hardware (non-system); no direct access natively built in. You must install iTunes for iPods to use the hardware as per Apple 'rules'. iTunes installs Quicktime, tries to pass Safari off as a browser, installs at least 2 or 3 windows services, etc. Whereas many other devices just give you USB Storage device access. Simple. the extra software is optional. Which IMO is the way it should be.


RE: Your Phones All Belong To Us
By Pirks on 2/14/2009 6:48:29 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
with a PC we can al
Who can? You "all" a few techies can? Good for you. I was talking not about you "all" a few techies, I meant general public, i.e. vast majority.

These people can't "go down and buy parts". So your arguments are moot because you talk about different NICHE market. Apple doesn't design its products for this market. End of story.


RE: Your Phones All Belong To Us
By jjmcubed on 2/14/2009 7:10:34 PM , Rating: 2
if your "general public, i.e. vast majority" would take three minutes to do research, they could replace 80% of the parts in a PC in 15 minutes.

Great... now I'm feeding...


RE: Your Phones All Belong To Us
By Pirks on 2/14/2009 7:29:53 PM , Rating: 2
Does this even remotely relate to the original question about general public being experts in ASSEMBLING/HAND BUILDING their own computers? You're not even trying to feed me, 'cause I can't answer to your post. It's totally unrelated to what we were discussing above. Try harder next time :)


RE: Your Phones All Belong To Us
By jjmcubed on 2/16/2009 5:01:27 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Try harder next time


This isn't personal, and i'm not trying to put you down. It is a discussion. Why do you insist on putting multiple people down?


RE: Your Phones All Belong To Us
By Pirks on 2/16/2009 5:04:36 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Why do you insist on putting multiple people down?
For the same reason they try to put me down.


By PhoenixKnight on 2/14/2009 11:14:54 PM , Rating: 2
True, but those parts that can be changed in 15 minutes with 3 minutes of research can also be replaced in a Mac. A friend of mine saved several hundreds of dollars when she purchased her Power Mac by buying it with only 2 gigs of RAM, then buying an additional 4GB of RAM and a 500GB hdd on newegg. Since Macs use virtually the same hardware as PC, it's much easier to change hardware inside Macs than it used to be.

And if you're interested in having the best of both worlds, you can just build a typical PC and install OS X onto it as a Hackintosh.


RE: Your Phones All Belong To Us
By Darkskypoet on 2/15/2009 7:51:40 AM , Rating: 2
LoL.. I am feeding too.. Cause really, Pirks if you can't? Then someone should have set you in front of the Lego bin at pre-school a little more often. Further, you can easily have a small firm assemble yours for around $50.

The major part of this, is that for love nor money; I am not allowed to build my own mac. So fine. I guess we'll just have to be in trouble for building our own macs.. Which are just PCs... So why buy a mac again?

***As to your niche market comment, contrary to popular belief, some mac uses can install expansion cards onto mother boards, and they don't all faint at the site of unsocketed processors. Really you shouldn't be so hard on your 'niche' market like that.

The real strength in the PC ecosystem; is that we've assimilated nearly everything, including your Mac! Sorry Pirks; All your Base Belong to Us.

Apple's just another PC manufacturer now, and one thats lost its instruction set protection. Too bad their Legal isn't nearly as good as our 'niche markets' team of tinkerers.


RE: Your Phones All Belong To Us
By Pirks on 2/15/2009 2:21:13 PM , Rating: 2
Well, I _CAN_ assemble my computer, but I realized a long time ago that I am a minority and most other people CAN NOT do that, they just need a reliable PC from a store, which is in most cases best served by buying a Mac.

The difference between me and you and other trolls like chicko and SavagePotato is that I understand that I am a techie and hence a minority, and you DO NOT understand this, you think that EVERYBODY is like you. Grow up then.


RE: Your Phones All Belong To Us
By twjr on 2/15/2009 7:30:17 AM , Rating: 2
While I exclusively disagree with the trash that comes off of Pirks' keyboard, there is often far to much crap bundled with new computers these days. To the point that I have never even booted up the install that came with any computer I have purchased from an OEM. It is just far easier to do a fresh install.

However, Apple is by no means innocent of bundling crap with their software. My dad for instance needed to run some Quicktime videos (who knows why)and so installed the player. But thanks to Apple they now guerilla iTunes and Safari as default to install alongside. I just told him to use vlc. Not only is it way more simple and versatile but you wont end up with the extra software installed.


RE: Your Phones All Belong To Us
By Pirks on 2/15/2009 2:35:44 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Apple is by no means innocent of bundling crap with their software
I was talking about crap bundled with HARDWARE, not SOFTWARE. FAIL! :P


By captainentropy on 2/15/2009 7:53:50 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
I predict more anti-trust trouble for them in the future as they continue to increase marketshare.

Agreed.

I have an iPhone 3G. I'm not a mac fan by any means, I think they are ridiculously overhyped. I have an Acer notebook and frankenbox desktop. But one reason I got the iphone was because of all the different apps (google maps rules!), the excellent email support, above-average mobile browser, and nice news feed apps. But then I find that apple kills a lot of apps that sound awesome for who knows why. No video recording on the iPhone? Are you fucking serious? It's a great video playing/photo taking device, why the cripple? That's reason #1 I jailbreaked mine (which was ridiculously easy, very little tech knowhow needed). The other reason was I thought I could get via jailbreak was what most every other smartphone in existence has by default: the ability to record phone conversations. I can't tell you how many times I've been on a tech support call or customer service call with a bank, car/health insurance, etc. only to be either inundated with stuff I need to know for later or to have a record of what dumbass rep said today that isn't correct when I call back later (I'm looking at you DirecTV and DMV).

Apple, open up what you allow on the iphone! Fart sounds and levels are fine but I'd gladly pay for a stable videorecorder app and record-a-call app. If it has to pass a stability test before you allow fine, but don't dismiss apps by fiat.


RE: Your Phones All Belong To Us
By omnicronx on 2/13/2009 3:53:54 PM , Rating: 5
quote:
Microsoft bans anyone using a cracked Xbox 360 on Live. According to you, they shouldn't.
Xbox live is a service, they have the legal right to limit who and what can use that service. MS never made the claim that modding your 360 is illegal, nor did they make the claim that using a modded 360 on xbox live is illegal. One of the rules of the agreement you had to accept when signing up for live disallows the use of modded consoles, never does it mention the legality of doing so.

I also agree with their stance on live, I remember playing Phantasy star online back in the day for Dreamcast, and people used to hack their systems to do a bunch of nasty stuff online that simply ruined the game for everyone. Disallowing modded consoles is the only way to keep the integrity of the system.

Meanwhile modding your iphone has absolutely no effect on others.


RE: Your Phones All Belong To Us
By reader1 on 2/13/2009 4:59:16 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Meanwhile modding your iphone has absolutely no effect on others.


It absolutely does. Microsoft isn't banning people from live because they might cheat, they're banning them for piracy. Piracy kills software sales and drives developers away. That's why Bungie, id, Valve, Epic, Crytek and other PC game developers are all now focused on consoles while the PC is getting console ports.


RE: Your Phones All Belong To Us
By Zapp Brannigan on 2/13/2009 6:25:02 PM , Rating: 2
That's a ridiculous statement. id, Valve and Crytek have never made games for a console first and ported the pc version from it. Hell, Crytek have never made a console game! Sure, they release games on consoles but never are the pc versions the ports. Bungie were bought by microsoft ages ago, so had to leave pc development to make xbox games, as microsoft told them to. Epic made Gears of Wars for the Xbox first, but the PC version had extra content to make it superior.

Still, the PC does get a load of crappy licensed console port games, but it always has, so nothing new there.


RE: Your Phones All Belong To Us
By Pirks on 2/13/2009 6:29:31 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Epic made Gears of Wars for the Xbox first, but the PC version had extra content to make it superior
Unfortunately this does not compensate the lack of GeoW 2 for PC.


RE: Your Phones All Belong To Us
By reader1 on 2/13/2009 6:37:38 PM , Rating: 2
And the Gears 1 port was so buggy, pirates didn't even want it.


RE: Your Phones All Belong To Us
By Pirks on 2/13/2009 6:45:06 PM , Rating: 2
Haven't seen a single bug on my gaming rig but heard from Epic that they are not happy with GeoW PC sales so looks like that one was the first and the last game from GeoW universe we'll ever see on PC. Which is pretty sad :~-(


RE: Your Phones All Belong To Us
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 2/16/2009 3:59:06 PM , Rating: 2
On the PC market, expectations as to what makes a good FPS is higher. Look no further than Halo. PC users were 2 generations beyond in gameplay and graphics, yet Console gamers wet themselves over it.


RE: Your Phones All Belong To Us
By Pirks on 2/16/2009 4:38:57 PM , Rating: 2
I agree with you on graphics, but not on gameplay. There's not a lot of PC shooters that are as much fun as Halo. ESPECIALLY on legendary. Vietcong is the only PC shooter I can directly compare against Halo on legendary, with regard to fun and difficulty and beyond-human reaction/precision required to survive.

And GeoW 1 on a hardest level? If you say console FPS are not fun - you never tried to beat RAAM on the hardest level, this is incredible!!!


Copyright violation?
By dwalton on 2/13/2009 1:57:12 PM , Rating: 5
Could a publisher sue me if say I bought the Lord of the Rings books and then used white-out to erase the parts of story I didn't like and used a pen to write in what I thought made the story better?

How can copyright laws be used in this fashion when it comes to software? People aren't redistributing their jailbroke Iphones for profit, so why does Apple's greedy need to control the Iphone software trumph my right to tweak my iphone as I wish.




RE: Copyright violation?
By Moishe on 2/13/2009 2:08:21 PM , Rating: 2
Yes, IF you republished your version.

but your analogy is wrong because jailbreakers (afaik) are not republishing Apple's code. They are merelypublishing their own code that happens to break into Apple's code.
If I am wrong about that, please correct me.

If jailbreaking involves redistributing a hacked version of Apple's bootloader then I can see how Apple will have a case against that method of jailbreaking.


RE: Copyright violation?
By amanojaku on 2/13/2009 2:13:27 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
A jailbreak is the act of breaking out of a chroot or jail in UNIX-like operating systems or bypassing digital rights management (DRM). It is a specific form of privilege escalation. In the context of the iPhone, it allows the user to run arbitrarily defined code or applications, bypassing Apple's code distribution mechanism (the iTunes App Store and the iTunes Application). The iPhone and iPod touch have repeatedly been subject to jailbreaks, allowing the execution of arbitrary code, but have had those jailbreaks disabled by vendor updates.[1] [2] The iPod Touch/iPhone hacking community however, responds to the newest vendor updates by creating new ways to enable third party apps almost immediately. The popularity of iPhone jailbreaking in turn popularized the term "jailbreak": for example, in early 2009, more Google-indexed Web pages mention the word in relation to the iPhone (3,140,000) than in any other context (e.g. prison escapes) (2,230,000). According to archive.org, the first DRM-related definition of the term jailbreak was added to the "Urban Dictionary" in December 2007 and referenced the recently released iPhone.[3]

Jailbreaking is distinct from "unlocking". Unlocking is the process by which a mobile device is made compatible with telephone networks it was not specifically licensed to be used with.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jailbreak_(iPhone)


RE: Copyright violation?
By dwalton on 2/13/2009 2:18:08 PM , Rating: 3
Apple claims that the act of jailbreaking is illegal.

That means if Lord of the Rings was printed with anti-white out ink and I went of the internet and I downloaded instructions for circumventing the PRM (printed rights management) of the ink then my act of putting in my own parts of the story would be illegal.

How about this...if I made a kit with white-out and a pen and called it the "Jail break your Books" kit, then could I be sued by every publisher in the world?


RE: Copyright violation?
By Chocobollz on 2/13/2009 3:28:50 PM , Rating: 2
Ok, here's another analogy. Let's say you're buying a motorbike. Then you you want to mod that motorbike because you think that some of its parts aren't suit your need (lets say you want it to be an off-road motorbike). So, you're open the engine (the Apple's code?), change some parts with another one and also change its tire with a tire specially made for off-road. Is that wrong? Or the analogy is incorrect?


RE: Copyright violation?
By Fritzr on 2/16/2009 8:08:22 PM , Rating: 2
The analogy is incorrect. If the bike's parts are sealed and there was a Federal law that made breaking those seals by anyone not holding a valid permit illegal, then the analogy would be correct.

Apple is saying that the iPhone has a DRM mechanism. Jailbreaking circumvents the iPhone DRM system allowing it to be used in violation of the Apple enduser license. The DMCA makes it a Federal crime to circumvent DRM without the permission of whoever owns the right to modify it.

By adding discussion of why the DRM is being circumvented they are obscuring the basic legal premise that Apple is using.

In tautology form
DRM is legally installed
bypassing DRM==illegal
jailbreak==bypassing DRM
gives
jailbreak==illegal


Jailbreaking may actually help profits
By HelToupee on 2/13/2009 3:10:54 PM , Rating: 5
I bought my iPod Touch for the purpose of running "unauthorized" code (before the app store). If App Store apps are not strong enough to stand on their own against freely-distributed apps that are available through Cydia and Installer, then I say, "let them die." I mean, come on, Apple, how many $0.99 iFart apps, or Bejeweled clones do you really need?

I paid good money for the hardware, I expect to be able to use it in any way I see fit. The position Apple's taking is akin to Microsoft trying to stop you from running Netscape on Windows. That didn't go so well for them, and that particular case set some very clear legal precedent in the matter.

Now, those of you ne'er-do-wells out there that are jailbreaking your iPhone/iPod Touch for the purpose of pirating App Store apps -- for shame. That is most definitely illegal.




By reader1 on 2/13/2009 6:13:25 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I paid good money for the hardware, I expect to be able to use it in any way I see fit.


They told you up front that you couldn't. If that isn't what you wanted, you shouldn't have bought it.


RE: Jailbreaking may actually help profits
By Regs on 2/13/2009 7:40:30 PM , Rating: 2
Everything you buy is on terms, conditions, and limitations. It's only when they effect you, or bight you in the butt, is when people cry bloody murder. The TV you bought at Best Buy likely has a few pages dedicated to liabilities and conditions in its manual, and the terms of sale on the Best Buy receipt covers the back with fine print.

No one cares to read them until it actually effects them.

Me and masher share the same opinion. Though by popular opinion a lot would disagree with us. And I bet that same majority never bother to read the fine print. This system was point in place a long time ago for both the payee and offeree benefit. No need to be resentful or angry at it because look how far it got us. Flat screen TVs, portable phones that can access the web, and video games that could entertain us for days-on-end. It's when people start abusing the system is when we no longer see the benefit of free and equal trade.


By Brainonska511 on 2/14/2009 12:14:49 AM , Rating: 3
Fine print isn't always legally binding.


Quite clear
By BigPeen on 2/13/2009 4:52:03 PM , Rating: 2
It's anti competetive, pure and simple. It's just a matter of time and size till behavior like this is deemed illegal (I'm guessing).




RE: Quite clear
By reader1 on 2/13/2009 5:36:16 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
It's anti competetive...


No, it's just the opposite. They're trying to prevent piracy, which harms competition.


RE: Quite clear
By HrilL on 2/13/2009 8:10:53 PM , Rating: 2
Where? I saw no such agreements until after it was bought. You agreed only if you activated it yourself on iTunes if not then you never in fact agreed to anything other than your AT&T contract that was signed but I don't remember that saying anything about not letting me run applications of my choosing.


tv commercial
By shin0bi272 on 2/13/2009 7:52:02 PM , Rating: 2
This sort of thing makes the Macolites sound like they are the ones who are the conformists like in their famous 1984 super bowl commercial huh? Obey Apple or they'll throw you in jail.




RE: tv commercial
By Pirks on 2/13/2009 8:33:56 PM , Rating: 1
Nobody ever thrown anyone in jail for cracking iPhone, so stop bitching


RE: tv commercial
By captainentropy on 2/15/2009 8:40:57 PM , Rating: 2
LOL. Very appropos.

"Think Different!" (so long as your thinking different doesn't infringe on our patents, copyrights, DRM, etc.)


First Sale
By Natfly on 2/13/2009 3:16:26 PM , Rating: 4
I would think that jail breaking an iPhone would be covered under First Sale Doctrine. It's a shame that the DMCA has crushed so many rights.




Pirks is comedy
By cogito on 2/15/2009 11:40:05 AM , Rating: 2
I like how Pirks has posted about 80 times in this thread in the last two days. I also find it funny that (what seems to be) at least half of his posts are rated down and that basically everyone is arguing against him. I certainly hope he's done so on the go from an Iphone or something. I just find it sad imagining him sitting on his computer arguing so long about such a pointless subject. Seriously dude, why do you care so much?




RE: Pirks is comedy
By Pirks on 2/15/2009 2:42:49 PM , Rating: 2
First, you should ask local chicko/potato trolls why do THEY care so much about me. They look like the flies and I'm the sugar? I'm puzzled. Why are they all onto me here? Got any idea? :)


On the forums...
By Neutrion on 2/15/2009 2:54:05 AM , Rating: 3
This is an interesting topic. The problem here is the individuals ruining it for everyone....your Pirks, beenthere, PLAYSTATIONTHREE types. Why ruin a good place for this sort of activity?




RE: On the forums...
By Pirks on 2/15/09, Rating: 0
It'll be easy to avoid
By corduroygt on 2/13/2009 2:04:20 PM , Rating: 2
Just don't buy that POS. I have a macbook, but I'd never buy the iphone since it's missing the features from my 2007 model phone such as bluetooth sync/modem, quality digital camera, voip support built into the OS, video capture.




By Chocobollz on 2/14/2009 2:02:41 PM , Rating: 2
By SiliconAddict on 2/15/2009 12:23:45 AM , Rating: 2
and shove it up your ***.

Sincerely,

Someone who will never touch your **** ever again.




By hameed on 2/15/2009 5:33:15 AM , Rating: 2
..And a court in France said phone locking is illegal.

Go figure!




trollest of trolls
By soundrave on 2/16/2009 3:18:52 AM , Rating: 2
i thought console gaming trolls were idiots.. but pirks manage to overthrow just about every other trolls out there...




2 cent
By Szeto on 2/16/2009 1:30:11 PM , Rating: 2
Jobs is just doing his job in my opinion ... perhaps he did it in the way that most people dislike but isn't that his job?

i suppose if we all try and see it from the other poster's point of view perhaps we won't have as much flaming going on.




The picture of Steve Jobs....
By LorKha on 2/13/2009 1:42:14 PM , Rating: 1
I see that picture and then I can picture him yelling...

YYYYYYOOOOOOOOOOOOUUUUUUUUUUU!

following with the Soulja Boy - Crank Dat dance.




Damn you Apple!
By icanhascpu on 2/13/09, Rating: 0
RE: Damn you Apple!
By joey2264 on 2/13/2009 1:57:41 PM , Rating: 1
Uhm, how does outlawing jailbreaking "protect their investment and partnership with AT&T"? It doesn't even seem like Apple is making that arguement. It might protect the investment of app store developers, who don't want see their work pirated.

Regardless, the benefits to jailbreaking (access to programs that were capriciously rejected by Apple for inclusion in the App Store), far outweigh those few consumers that grow through the trouble of pirating apps.


Of course
By Shark Tek on 2/13/2009 1:58:10 PM , Rating: 1
Of course is illegal because Apple, they want to protect their income on the apple store. And since jailbraking allows to install third party tools from many others sources they're very worried.




Another Apple Article
By chrish89 on 2/13/09, Rating: -1
RE: Another Apple Article
By TomZ on 2/13/2009 2:07:01 PM , Rating: 5
Don't you expect some "hate" when Apple does something so obviously "wrong"?


RE: Another Apple Article
By Pirks on 2/13/09, Rating: -1
RE: Another Apple Article
By TomZ on 2/13/2009 2:25:11 PM , Rating: 4
No I wouldn't. I'm not a control freak with an ego the size of California.

But at the same time I wouldn't be that successful either.


RE: Another Apple Article
By Pirks on 2/13/09, Rating: -1
RE: Another Apple Article
By omnicronx on 2/13/2009 3:59:16 PM , Rating: 3
Go read a history book and see how 'control' has worked out for others throughout the course of history.

Control leads to over expansion, over expansion leads to revolt, revolts leads to.. you get the picture.


RE: Another Apple Article
By Pirks on 2/13/09, Rating: -1
RE: Another Apple Article
By omnicronx on 2/13/2009 4:39:25 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
So little niche that Apple occupies
I wish, unfortunately this is no longer 1996
quote:
Nice job bending logic to fit your "arguments"
Comparing Apple to previous world empires is bending logic? I wasnt aware ;)


RE: Another Apple Article
By Pirks on 2/13/09, Rating: 0
RE: Another Apple Article
By clovell on 2/13/2009 4:08:32 PM , Rating: 2
Control means success? That makes about as much sense as saying Control means having a horomone imbalance.

In Soviet Russia, association implies YOU!


RE: Another Apple Article
By WTFiSJuiCE on 2/13/2009 8:12:51 PM , Rating: 2
Go tell that to the people of Cuba. Now that papa Fidel has finally stepped down and relinquished his "controlling" dominance, they have only begun to start having technology like cell phones flow into their country legally.

mmm smells like success.


RE: Another Apple Article
By Pirks on 2/13/2009 8:47:50 PM , Rating: 1
Good point about Cuba. Control is a double edged sword and should be used wisely, I agree with that. I meant the kind of control over the platform that Jobs employs shows its success. Now MS is trying to emulate Jobs's approach by Zune and now MS retail stores, and Xbox 360, but it has much less success because it does not know how to use control wisely. They have a looong road ahead to learn this.


RE: Another Apple Article
By quiksilvr on 2/13/2009 2:31:32 PM , Rating: 2
I would work more on hardware than software. Software just leads to more headaches. All software can be pirated but if someone takes your hardware for free, that's straight up theft. You can't justify stealing hardware in any way. You can, however, find loop holes around software.


RE: Another Apple Article
By Pirks on 2/13/2009 3:48:36 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I would work more on hardware than software
This is exactly what Apple is doing, and this is why they are so profitable compared to other PC makers. They just prop their profits with some snazzy exclusive software that adds some more magic (i.e. user friendliness) to their hardware turning it into a single cohesive digital platform. Something that MS has totally missed with its partner oriented business model.


RE: Another Apple Article
By omnicronx on 2/13/2009 4:06:25 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Something that MS has totally missed with its partner oriented business model.
Damn 90% marketshare in PC computing, MS really dropped the ball didnt they?..

And in terms of the cell phone market, it seems to be working out quick nicely for them. Q4 results show more Windows Mobile based phones sold as a whole than the iPhone. (MS 5.0 million, Apple 4.2 million) How about them apples?

http://www.intomobile.com/2009/01/22/windows-mobil...


RE: Another Apple Article
By Pirks on 2/13/2009 4:36:33 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
90% marketshare in PC computing
90% selling cheapo boxes brings in almost the same money as 10% selling much more expensive boxes, did you know that basic fact of economics?
quote:
How about them apples?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smartphone#Operating_... :P


RE: Another Apple Article
By TomZ on 2/13/2009 4:43:21 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
90% selling cheapo boxes brings in almost the same money as 10% selling much more expensive boxes
That's the most idiodic statement you've made today. Let's see, do you want to compare software revenue or hardware revenue...?

Software revenue: compare Windows sales dollars to OSX sales dollars. Feel free to add $200 for every Mac hardware sold. Let's see...is that even close? No. Order of magnitude difference.

Hardware revenue: compare PC sales dollars to Mac sales. Even close...? No, it's an order of magnitude or more different.

Nice try.


RE: Another Apple Article
By Pirks on 2/13/2009 5:41:16 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
do you want to compare software revenue or hardware revenue?
I want to compare profits from PC sales
quote:
compare PC sales dollars to Mac sales. Even close?
Compare _PROFITS_ from sale of a cheapo PC to _PROFITS_ from sale of an expensive Mac. Even close?

Nice try indeed :P


RE: Another Apple Article
By wildmannz on 2/15/2009 11:33:00 PM , Rating: 2
To start with - nobody needs to defend one company or get stupidly excited about it. Apple and Microsoft can get excited about themselves -and defend themselves.
Stupid arguments on a forum isn't going to change someones ideas about what kind of computer they like to use.

Secondly - There is seriously no point - and nothing gained by comparing Microsoft and Apple.
The most common thing they share is the pursuit of profit in the same space - but they are worlds apart when you consider the different ways they do that.
Trying to pretend they are the same is silly.
They DO have interesting comparisons on some level.

The most interesting thing I find is their Market share and their Market Cap.
Microsoft is HUGE on Market-share. Something like 91% depending on how recent the stat is - and who you listen to. (Of course - if you read any stats - be clear on whether it is based on the last quarters sales, or a different period).

Market cap = $169 billion.
Profit for the last year? $48 billion
Qtrly growth? -11%

Apple market Share is supposed to be 6% - 8% depending on who you listen to.

Market cap = $88 billion
Profit for the last year? $11 billion
Qtrly growth? 5.8%

Interesting stats.
But comparisions are just silly. Apple doesn't sell gaming consoles. Microsoft doesn't earn a huge percentage of their money from MP3 players...


RE: Another Apple Article
By omnicronx on 2/13/2009 4:43:45 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
90% selling cheapo boxes brings in almost the same money as 10% selling much more expensive boxes
And? 90% > 8%~ and 4 billion > 1 billion. Are you trying to imply Microsoft's business strategy is 'wrong'? If so, sign me up for being 'wrong'.


RE: Another Apple Article
By Pirks on 2/13/2009 5:33:49 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Are you trying to imply Microsoft's business strategy is 'wrong'?
No, how could it be wrong if MS is depleting its cash reserves and lying off people while its chief competitor keeps posting healthy profits in times of recession, increasing cash reserves and only hiring, not laying off anyone? Of course, of course MS is right and Apple is wrong, whatever makes you sleep better :)


RE: Another Apple Article
By radializer on 2/13/2009 8:34:52 PM , Rating: 4
quote:
90% selling cheapo boxes brings in almost the same money as 10% selling much more expensive boxes


quote:
Compare _PROFITS_ from sale of a cheapo PC to _PROFITS_ from sale of an expensive Mac


So, essentially, since you are talking in terms of pure profit ... for the top statement to be true, you are implying that - for each sale of Apple's "expensive" box, it sees 9X the profit margin as compared to each sale of a "cheapo" box.

One can take this 2 ways - (1) dear old Apple is gouging it's customers royally or (2) Apple markets heavily and successfully to customers who feel that they get "extra" features for the extra price

Either way, if Apple can get away with it, more power to them I say (after all, it's supposed to be a "free market").

I'm just curious that this seems to be something you seem quite thrilled about. The only way the above would make one happy is if one is a part of Apple's profit sharing plan or has invested significantly in AAPL ... ??


RE: Another Apple Article
By Pirks on 2/13/2009 9:04:09 PM , Rating: 1
So when you are thrilled about a company you MUST have their stock? Are you serious? Do YOU get thrills ONLY about companies you own a share in? You're kidding, right? :)))


RE: Another Apple Article
By wildmannz on 2/16/2009 12:04:59 AM , Rating: 2
You're assuming too much.

First - Microsoft doesn't sell Computers. MS Windows and MS Office are Software. The people who sell cheap low-margin computers are the likes of Dell and HP.
Microsoft sell Software, Keyboards, XBoxes etc.
I'd guess that their most profitable part of this is the Software.

So - both companies make good money.
You assume that Apple gouges for their PC sales - yet most of their profit comes from the iPhone and the iPod.

Perhaps you should re-think your assumptions?

Again - comparing Apple and Microsoft is a silly game.
They are both profitable companies - they both make good products that people buy - and like.

I'm OK with that.


RE: Another Apple Article
By Pirks on 2/16/2009 12:25:10 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
most of their profit comes from the iPhone and the iPod
Where did you get this from? Apple financial reports state pretty much the opposite.


RE: Another Apple Article
By MozeeToby on 2/13/2009 2:33:59 PM , Rating: 3
In Apple's defence (wow, never thought I would say that) they don't want jailbreaking declared illegal. They want it to be not declared legal.

At face value that might seem like the same thing but when you get down to it there are major differences. What it comes down to is Apple is trying to cover their asses if something happens later that they really don't like. It also gives Apple some protection from both users who brick their phone trying to jailbreak it as well as developers whose programs get pirated onto iPhones after they have been jailbreaked.


RE: Another Apple Article
By Shadowself on 2/13/2009 3:01:03 PM , Rating: 2
Exactly.

If Apple does not defend its copyrights at this point it would lead to all kinds of potential problems down the road.

How many jail breakers has Apple gone after? None.

Apple does not care in the least about individual jail breakers. It cares about the people who are distributing the ability to do so. Apple just wants to keep the distribution of such software from being legal. Very likely Apple has very little interest in going after those individuals now or in the near future.


RE: Another Apple Article
By omnicronx on 2/13/2009 4:08:39 PM , Rating: 2
If it is deemed 'not legal', there is nothing stopping apple from legally bricking iPhones that have been unlocked.


RE: Another Apple Article
By mydogfarted on 2/13/2009 4:46:31 PM , Rating: 2
This is not unlike when MS found out how to check for pirated copies of XP and wouldn't let people use Windows Update. Cheat the system, and eventually it's going to bite you in the ass.

I don't expect Apple to go chasing people who jailbreak their iPhone/Touch, but I expect that they will void people's warranties and possibly go after the people writing the code. Sony went after PS/PS2 mod-chip makers for a while. Someone made the performance upgrade comment before - you crack the engine open to modify it, you void the warranty and if it blows up, you're S.O.L.


RE: Another Apple Article
By totenkopf on 2/15/2009 4:14:00 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
If it is deemed 'not legal', there is nothing stopping apple from legally bricking iPhones that have been unlocked.


Not true. Notice MS not allowing updates for pirated copies is different than corrupting your HDD (destroying your illegal installation in some way). Not honoring a warranty or providing some service is different then destroying your property. If you allow Apple to brick, or otherwise disable your phone legally it a slippery slope to other shady practices. The distinction between legality and morality in regards to right and wrong never favor us consumers... we just don't have the lobbyists!


RE: Another Apple Article
By masher2 (blog) on 2/13/09, Rating: 0
RE: Another Apple Article
By TomZ on 2/13/2009 3:03:12 PM , Rating: 2
Yes, of course - and "wrong" is a value judgement, not an absolute fact.

While I do of course understand the rule of law and the role of intellectual property protection (my own business is IP-based), Apple is clearly hijacking DMCA here for purposes that it wasn't intended for. DMCA was absolutely not put in place to help companies lock out competitors so they could build vertical monopolies.


RE: Another Apple Article
By Pirks on 2/13/2009 5:13:33 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Apple is clearly hijacking DMCA here for purposes that it wasn't intended for
ORLY? Does it mean that DMCA can't be used by MS too when they decide to protect Xbox 360 from cracking? Or will you rotate 180 degrees, Tom? Will you start singing totally opposite song about how bad Xbox 360 crackers are and how MS has all the rights to use DMCA against them? Hehee Tom, you are so predictable :)))


RE: Another Apple Article
By masher2 (blog) on 2/13/09, Rating: -1
RE: Another Apple Article
By kerpwnt on 2/13/2009 6:56:36 PM , Rating: 2
Apple is not using the DMCA to lock out their competitors. They are using the patent office to do that.


RE: Another Apple Article
By kerpwnt on 2/13/2009 6:49:25 PM , Rating: 2
Its just a shame that the legal leeway for modding keeps shriveling up (not that there was much to begin with). Some of us like to add features to devices that we feel should have been included in the original design and are otherwise unavailable. Modders are not a large enough market to justify a more complicated device with a steeper learning curve. This is the same reason Linux has such a small market share. I work in I.T. (support) and see every day why Apple feels it is in their interests to keep such a closed platform.

When I jailbroke my iPod Touch, the thought that I was doing something 'wrong' never crossed my mind. I still don't feel like I did anything wrong. It should also be noted that, in my action, neither the author of the jailbreak nor I made any profit in spite of Apple.

The way I look at it:
Don't support me, drop the warranty for my device, but please don't be silly and run to mommy telling her that I 'broke' the toy you sold to me.


RE: Another Apple Article
By wetwareinterface on 2/13/2009 7:24:25 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Apple offers the hardware for sale under certain conditions. If you don't like the conditions -- don't buy the hardware.



conditions for buying the hardware are you have to sign up for a carrier agreement to get it at a discount. if you choose to pay full price you are not locked to at&t. those are the only conditions assosciated with the hardware which are linked to a purchase and what you can and cannot do with the hardware.

there is a lot of precedent tied up around ibm and microsoft about trying to lock out other software on your hardware that absolutely does not fly. if you sell hardware the buyer basically can run whatever will run on it as long as that software isn't illegal or performs an illegal act. that's why apple is trying to cover it's operating system portions of the iphone as "firmware" and encrypted to use the dmca to stop jailbreaking and to lock you into apple only software licenses. there is some actual firmware on the iphone, apple had nothing to do with it. it's all broadcom's firmware and apple can't control that license so this could be interesting if the eff uses the jailbreaking communities recent disclosures on how they did it in a court fight. apple only tied it's usage of the encryption to the protection of the bootloader and up the operating system chain and used the broadcom built in lockout mechanisms. the actual firmware is licensed from broadcom that the iphone software runs on.


RE: Another Apple Article
By aos007 on 2/16/2009 2:54:48 PM , Rating: 2
How's Apple doing anything "wrong"? Jailbreaking is clearly a violation of DMCA, hence illegal (it's a CRIMINAL offense, no less), hence "wrong". Apple is just using all the tools at their disposal, like all good capitalists would. In fact they are opening themselves to lawsuits by shareholders if they don't pursue each and every LEGAL avenue to increase profit. Whether you like it or not is irrelevant. You guys brought it upon yourselves by allowing in lawmakers to pass such laws and then by not voting in different ones that promised to take them out. You can't praise capitalism when it suits you and piss on it when it doesn't.


RE: Another Apple Article
By Moishe on 2/13/2009 2:11:30 PM , Rating: 2
yeah... because Apple can do no wrong... pardon us for pointing out the stupidity of your favorite religi... er. company.


RE: Another Apple Article
By Kefner on 2/13/2009 2:25:17 PM , Rating: 2
You better bow down to the All Knowing Jobs, and worship the All Mighty Apple logo, or straight to hell you go. (which I hear is somewhere in Seattle)


RE: Another Apple Article
By shiznit on 2/13/2009 6:06:50 PM , Rating: 2
redmond actually


RE: Another Apple Article
By shiznit on 2/13/2009 6:11:37 PM , Rating: 2
It's so bad there that you can actually install and use free software, the hardware is half the price, and mice have more than one button! Oh the horror...


RE: Another Apple Article
By Pirks on 2/13/2009 6:20:17 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
install and use free software
And if you want some OEM preinstalled trial/crapware, you don't even have to think or move, it COMES TO YOU by itself!PREINSTALLED! Horror indeed :)))


RE: Another Apple Article
By shiznit on 2/13/2009 6:25:20 PM , Rating: 2
My retail copy of Vista didn't come with any...


RE: Another Apple Article
By Pirks on 2/13/2009 6:38:02 PM , Rating: 1
Tiny minority who bought retail Vista doesn't count. Most people get new PC and all OEM crap that's preinstalled on it.


RE: Another Apple Article
By shiznit on 2/13/2009 9:46:58 PM , Rating: 2
that's part of the reason PCs are so much cheaper than Macs. I'll gladly take the time to uninstall the bloatware or even reformat if it means saving a couple hundred bucks on hardware.


RE: Another Apple Article
By Pirks on 2/13/2009 9:59:05 PM , Rating: 1
It's also a part of the reason Apple keeps chipping away at Windows market share.


RE: Another Apple Article
By shiznit on 2/13/2009 10:31:30 PM , Rating: 2
doesn't bother me, let the sheep buy whatever they want. I'm a gamer so OS X is out of the question.

It doesn't have anything to do with the topic at hand. If you get a Windows mobile phone, you can run whatever software you want, Blackberry as well. But Apple like to take advantage of their customers near religious devotion and prevent them from running free homebrew apps (not to mention force them into crazy contracts). There is no defense for that, whatever the argument about Mac vs PC may be.


RE: Another Apple Article
By Pirks on 2/13/2009 10:38:19 PM , Rating: 1
OS X is not targeted at hardcore gamers since hardcore PC gamers who play only the PC exclusive titles are a tiny minority in the market. Most people either play casual/simple/not graphically rich games (for which Macs are pefect) or use consoles.

MS also takes advantage of their Xbox 360 customers and prevents them from running free homebrew apps on Xbox 360.
Why are you not complaining about that too? Double standards again?


RE: Another Apple Article
By shiznit on 2/13/2009 10:46:48 PM , Rating: 2
First of all I am making a comparison between the iPhone and other smart phones, not a console. The other consoles do the same thing so MS isn't unfairly treating Xbox users. And if you are caught with a modded xbox, you are banned from an online service, your console isn't bricked. Windows Mobile and Blackberry don't try to rip off customers like Apple does.

If you think PC games are a minority, go check out Steam stats some time, but that's ot. And I couldn't care less at whom OS X is targeted, I have tried it and like Windows better (although multi-gesture Expose is really cool, but the other stupidities of OS X negate it's benefits I'm afraid).


RE: Another Apple Article
By Pirks on 2/13/2009 11:07:07 PM , Rating: 1
Apple also couldn't care less about you showing Steam around, 'cause they are interested in a global portable/personal computing market much more than in a few millions of PC gamers. Too small market for Apple to bother.

The other phone makers also sell their own phones through the same carriers with the same contracts, so what's the difference? Apple is no different than others.

What's up with bricked iPhones? You feel sorry for poor sobs who didn't know how to flash their iPhone and killed it? Wow, what a disaster :)) And of course it is APPLE who's guilty. The user who actually put some third party unapproved firmware and killed the device is of course NOT guilty. Suuure. Tell your fairy tale to some other losers who are dumb enough to believe you.

Rip off? You mean you don't like the fact that iPhones UI is superior to lousy UI of WinMobile? Or you envy Mobile Safari users 'cause their browser is much more convenient when browsing the web? I don't see any rip off when phone maker offers superior product for the same price as most its competitors or even less.


RE: Another Apple Article
By Chocobollz on 2/14/2009 3:30:27 PM , Rating: 2
I will suggest you to not playing game on your iPhone too much because you might forget to play with your wife! :D

Oh and, about
quote:
Or you envy Mobile Safari users 'cause their browser is much more convenient when browsing the web?

Mind you, I'm using Opera Mini here and no walking-in-the-jungle browser, err.. I mean Safari, could change that ;-P


RE: Another Apple Article
By Pirks on 2/14/2009 7:00:11 PM , Rating: 2
Your opinion is worth nothing to me. OTOH Engadget guys who did a few mobile browser comparisons - this is different.

No matter what opera shmopera you worship - I value those professional reviewers' opinion much higher than yours. Sorry about that.


RE: Another Apple Article
By Noliving on 2/14/2009 10:16:58 PM , Rating: 2
I would say the Steam community is just as large as Apple's mac community is.


RE: Another Apple Article
By Pirks on 2/15/2009 1:56:26 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
the Steam community is just as large as Apple's mac community is
Nope, it's at least twice smaller, if not three times: http://idaconcpts.com/2008/12/05/a-not-so-simple-q...

And if you consider the puny number of hardcore PC gamers compared to the huuuge number of console gamers... well, you got the idea. Nobody cares about Windows gaming anymore, EVEN MICROSOFT. They are obsessed with their Halo and GeoW and other exclusive Xbox stuff. Say your thanks to them, son.


RE: Another Apple Article
By captainentropy on 2/15/2009 9:52:27 PM , Rating: 2
Puny?! Ha! WTF are you talking about? THE single most important reason for the increasing of CPU speed, graphics card power, and memory capacity, etc. is due to PC gamers. Yes, sales of console games is about five times that of PC games (dollars not units), but if you think that is puny, you're retarded.

PC gamers have been integral to the increasing power and low cost of computers that we all enjoy.


RE: Another Apple Article
By Pirks on 2/15/2009 10:03:22 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
PC gamers have been integral to the increasing power and low cost of computers
Unfortunately this does not prevent gaming to move in console direction. Halo, GeoW, MGS, The Darkness, LBP and many other console exclusives, versus what? A few console ports plus a bunch of looking like clones fantasy elf/ork/etc MMORPGs trying to catch up to WoW? That's puny, no matter what you say.


RE: Another Apple Article
By jjmcubed on 2/14/2009 7:13:02 PM , Rating: 2
only if you want to use a service provided by them... Xbox Live. You can install whatever you want if you don't use their service.


RE: Another Apple Article
By Pirks on 2/14/2009 7:33:15 PM , Rating: 2
Same's true for iPhone. You can install whatever you want on it if you don't use AT&T specific services. So what's your point?


RE: Another Apple Article
By totenkopf on 2/15/2009 3:46:02 AM , Rating: 2
I'm not a contract lawyer and I don't know that much about the laws concerning EULA's, but this crap pisses me off.

I understand upholding copyright laws to stop illegal distribution of proprietary material, but stopping people from doing what they will with something they have bought and paid for? That's the problem with EULA's, they neuter my rights as a consumer. Back when Apple updates were bricking iPhones was a great example of Apple crapping on peoples rights. It wasn't for a good reason, it was because you doing what you pleased with YOUR property interfered with them making a buck. When you buy an iPhone, the implied warranty tells you it has to work as a phone, you payed for that. the fair use act says, afaik, that I can do whatever I please with my stuff (within reason. Owning a computer doesn't necessarily give me the right to download copyrighted music). Apple trying to kill 3rd party software is no different than Ford saying that you can't hang fuzzy dice from your rearview or we will break your car (or sue you or something), oh and you agreed to this because it's in a license agreement that violates your rights. Yeah, I can't build a hacked xbox and expect love from MS, but if I pay for an xbox I should be able to whatever the hell I want with it as long as it still functions as the xbox they sold me.

For people like Pirks to side with the corporations like Apple on issues like this is ridiculous. Pirks is advocating that we let corporations tell us what we can and can't do with OUR property. I suppose Pirks is also a fan of trusted computing? Get off the Apple teet, they are an evil corporation. And no, saying "yeah, well so is MS" does not refute that point, we all know already (and at least Gates pretends to be a caring philanthropist, Jobs is just a prick). Maybe Pirks would be a good business man... go help Titleist write a EULA forbidding players from using any golfballs except for Titleist balls with their clubs. DRM is crap and only adversely effects legitimate customers. I wish businesses would put some of that creativity to work finding a new way to reconcile media and software distribution in the age of the internet other than the drm we have now because I would prefer to use VLC, KMplayer, or anything other than iTunes.

Sorry if this is off topic... /flameoff

Also, stop calling people "son", Pirks; only a$$holes are purposefully condescending (or maybe you think you're Dave Chappelle cool?)


RE: Another Apple Article
By Pirks on 2/15/2009 3:57:25 AM , Rating: 1
No, totenkopf, when you buy software it is NOT YOUR PROPERTY, and you CAN'T JUST DO _ANYTHING_ YOU WANT with it. Learn some basic copyright law, will ya? Thanks.


RE: Another Apple Article
By totenkopf on 2/15/2009 4:24:01 AM , Rating: 2
An iPhone is not software. In regards to the xbox, losing the privilege to use a service is quite different than bricking MY property. Also, my point was that if my iPhone has 3rd party apps, who cares? It still functions as an iPhone insofar as Apple should be concerned, and should work accordingly as per the implied warranty inherent in buying a "phone" (unless I actually bought an iBrick and didn't know it). If Titleist wrote up a EULA similar to the one I proposed would you honor it, Pirks?


RE: Another Apple Article
By Pirks on 2/15/2009 3:02:12 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
An iPhone is not software
Yes, but it has software inside. Apple prohibits you to modify SOFTWARE inside the phone without their permission, not the HARDWARE. Got it?
quote:
losing the privilege to use a service is quite different than bricking MY property
It's not Apple bricking it, it's you who hacked some parts of system software. Don't blame Apple that YOUR _UNAPPROVED_ hack didn't work. Apple NEVER guaranteed it would work and NEVER assumed responsibility for those unapproved hacks.

Tell me this: if you hack your Xbox and ruin its internal software in the process, so that it stops booting - will you blame MS for bricking it? Or yourself?
quote:
if my iPhone has 3rd party apps, who cares?
Apple doesn't care, and all the users who successfully installed unapproved 3rd party apps are a living proof of that. I still don't understand what are you complaining about.

Apple trying to protect its lawful and legal copyright over its IP is nothing unusual. EVERY IT company does that, so why bother with Apple only? You should complain about copyright law, not about Apple.

Sorry, totenkopf, but I don't know who or what the Titleist is. So I can't answer this question. Please elaborate.


RE: Another Apple Article
By Pirks on 2/15/2009 4:02:16 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
if I pay for an xbox I should be able to whatever the hell I want with it as long as it still functions as the xbox they sold me
Same is true about iPhone. You can do whatever you want with it as long as it functions as a phone they sold you. So what are you complaining about then?


RE: Another Apple Article
By fsardis on 2/15/2009 12:08:16 PM , Rating: 2
Oi Pricks (couldn't resist)

http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/8260/macvspcho8...

The perfect analogy in every way.


RE: Another Apple Article
By Pirks on 2/15/2009 2:31:41 PM , Rating: 2
Oh fukasdris (couldn't resist) I know that most people prefer not to drive dangerous and hard to control sports motorbikes. Thanks for stating the obvious.


RE: Another Apple Article
By fsardis on 2/15/2009 5:24:00 PM , Rating: 2
ROFL. Even at trolling you are pathetic.
I know most people would take a bike over a cycle for kids.
I know most people would rather have the freedom of a bike than the limitations of a cycle.
I know that most people would pay a lot of money for a bike but not for a child's cycle.
What I do not know is what you tried to change my name to. It made no sense but then again nothing you say is even on the same postcode as sense.
You have been pwnd thoroughly. Go troll another place son.
Good luck.


RE: Another Apple Article
By Pirks on 2/15/2009 6:13:56 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
most people would take a bike over a cycle for kids
Mac Pro stuffed with eight 3.2 GHz Xeon cores, 32GB RAM, 6TB of RAID storage, nV Quadro FX 5600 etc etc is going to squash your puny self assembled toyPC like an ant.

You wanna go on your stupid motor bike against a heavy armored tank with V12 turbocharged diesel engine? :)))

I thouigh chickoboy was the most idiotic poster in this thread, now I think I should reconsider ;-)


RE: Another Apple Article
By fsardis on 2/15/2009 7:47:21 PM , Rating: 2
I had typed a long reply with some interesting facts about apple but this place is as queer as you are so forget about it.

I believe I can sum it up quickly with the following:

A tank is not faster than a bike. It also costs considerably more and you cannot win a pricing argument against computers so stuff it.
In addition, who in their right mind will build such a machine? Apple has almost non-existent market share in both server and workstation markets which is what such a machine would be for and again they will opt for a PC purely because you have an option to have 4 sockets if you want and quad cores with DDR3.
Not only that but Windows offers far greater application and hardware compatibility than Apple does. Furthermore, security is a big issue in Macs now too since they consistently get compromised first in security competitions and even Apple now recommends an antivirus.

If you cannot pull your head out of your rear and see some basic simple facts, then go forth and multiply if you find a woman crazy enough to do that with you. Good luck with
that son :-)


RE: Another Apple Article
By Pirks on 2/15/2009 8:17:48 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
A tank is not faster than a bike
So Macs are not toy child bikes anymore? Looks like you're ready to admit that Mac can be anything you want, almost as flexible as a PC. Way to go, zealot, way to go. What's the next confession you gonna make? :-)
quote:
It also costs considerably more and you cannot win a pricing argument against computers so stuff it
Yeah, tank costs more than a bike, but only a blind zealot like you will use this fact as a proof that tank is somehow "worse" than a bike. Your religion prevents you from thinking reasonably.
quote:
who in their right mind will build such a machine?
You think that computers are used only for Word and Outlook, and two cores is enough for everybody? If yes, than you are much more dumb than I thought.
quote:
they will opt for a PC purely because you have an option to have 4 sockets if you want and quad cores with DDR3
Nope, they won't, because Mac Pro would be CHEAPER than such a quad socket PC. Go check prices yourself, fanatic :P But be careful, this may ruin your religious beliefs! :)))
quote:
Windows offers far greater application and hardware compatibility than Apple does
Apple provided support for Windows on Macs, hence Macs also support all the Windows software. Eat this, fanatic :P
quote:
security is a big issue in Macs now too since they consistently get compromised first in security competitions
Macs are hacked in security competitions, while Windows is getting hacked by Downadup/Conficker in THE REAL WORLD. See any difference, fanatic? :))
quote:
Apple now recommends an antivirus
yet another fanatical lie
[yawn]
you start getting boring...
quote:
then go forth and multiply
You think licking Ballmer's buttocks is much better? Well, go ahead, continue then :) Right buttock for you and left for SavagePotato, how about that? :))


RE: Another Apple Article
By fsardis on 2/15/2009 9:00:17 PM , Rating: 2
Ahahaha, honestly, I gotta pee. You call me fanatic? I am clueless? I work in the industry you tool.
So how exactly did you deduct from what I said that Macs are not toys? I said a tank is no faster than a bike. The fact that a kid can get a big mountain bike rather than the more conservative trike is a whole different story. No matter the size, they will always be overpriced and useless toys. Toy tank. Fanatic.

I explained to you exactly how the market share goes so if you cannot swallow that it is your problem. You seem to be swallowing iCrap just fine though. Server and workstation market is where Apple has 0% market share. I do not think those are meant to do word and emails, are they, you fanatical tool?

You did not make a point on running Windows on a Mac really, did you? I gotta pee again, you should consider stand up comedy. It will be better than your trolling.

A lie about the antivirus? Perhaps you should visit Apple's site. It will be very enlightening, fanatic.

I am licking Ballmer's bum? There is no single PC user out there as obsessed and fanatical as Mactards like yourself. If anything MS gets most flak from PC users since you tools are too stupid to even know what does not work on a PC. You are too busy trying to figure out how to turn on the machine and which port is meant for mouse and keyboard.
So at least my lips are not stuck firmly around anyone's rear and certainly not stuck around Jobs' third leg like yours.


RE: Another Apple Article
By Pirks on 2/15/2009 9:38:33 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
how exactly did you deduct from what I said that Macs are not toys?
I said that fully equipped Mac Pro will squish your toy PC motorcycle just like that. You immediately started wiggling around and telling a hastily concocted story about how tank is still somehow worse than a motorbike, it's "too expensive" and stuff. Hence you admit that Mac can be a tank, not just a toy bike :P
quote:
kid can get a big mountain bike
Well, "mountain bike" in a form of a fully equipped Mac Pro still pisses and spits on your puny PC and you can't do anything about that. Well, unless you pay MORE than that Mac Pro's price :P
quote:
No matter the size, they will always be overpriced and useless toys
For you techies and WinPC fanatics - YES. For gazillions of other non-technical people - definitely NO.
quote:
Server and workstation market is where Apple has 0% market share
Unproven fanatical lie. Try harder next time, with a proof maybe? ;-)
quote:
Perhaps you should visit Apple's site
Perhaps YOU should visit it and break your dumb beliefs at last. Or better don't go there, your religion will be in danger! :)) Keep your WinPC faith strong, Almighty Jesus Ballmer will forgive your sins if you do :)))
quote:
you tools are too stupid to even know what does not work on a PC

I know what does not work on my home Vista gaming rig and on my work XP equipped Dell Precision, this, however, does not prevent me from making fun of the Ballmer buttock licking vitriol spitting WinPC zealots like you :))
quote:
not stuck around Jobs' third leg like yours
Sounds as dumb as usual, considering that I don't own any Apple products. Keep spitting your bull, this post was a bit funnier than a previous one. Entertain me some more please :)
quote:
I work in the industry you tool
Yeah, you work for Symantec or something God forbid even more crappy (if such thing even exists!)


RE: Another Apple Article
By totenkopf on 2/16/2009 3:15:26 AM , Rating: 2
Pirks, you do realize that most people here don't like you because of your smug arrogance. We no longer care that you don't know very much about computers.

I would also like you to know that a Mac Pro with the options you listed goes for upwards of $20k! It's hilarious. I think to upgrade to 32GB or ram Apple charges about 9,000 dollars! Pirks, PLEASE never try to argue that Apple computer hardware can compete... especially not on price.

from newegg...
TYAN S4980G2NR Quad socket.............$330
4 x Opteron 2380 2.5GHz ...............$2,480
16 x Kingston 4GB(64GB) DDR2 667.......$1,440
PNY Quadro fx5800......................$3,150
=$7,400
Applestore...
dual 3.2GHz Xeons.....................+$2,100
32GB DDR2 800.........................+$9,100
Quadro fx5600.........................+$2,850
Base MacPro price......................$2,799
=$16,849

That leaves me $9,449 dollars to finish building my machine before I match the Mac Pro price. The price disparity only gets worse if you include the 6TB storage you wanted, Pirks. With that $9k I could finish building this computer AND buy that Ninja motorcycle! Not to mention you get twice the ram, a better graphics card, and twice as many opteron quadcores which I guess are the best new server CPUs? This took me about ten minutes of looking for parts on newegg... the server part selection wasn't that great.

So you're right, Pirks... The Mac Pro really is an awesome deal :D I can't wait to see how you spin this to make Apple look good. Just admit that Mac Pro is crap.


RE: Another Apple Article
By Pirks on 2/16/2009 4:12:52 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Just admit that Mac Pro is crap
totenkopf, you're like the other PC zealots here think that I am too dumb to see through your cheap tricks. You think that if YOU can buy Newegg hardware like RAM sticks or HDDs or CPUs to stuff in your PC I can NOT do the same for Mac Pro, slashing its price twice or more?

Nice try, totenkopf, but when you PC zealots learn that I can buy Newegg hardware TOO, JUST LIKE YOU, and then stick it in a Mac Pro - then we'll talk seriously.

Speaking of arrogance - you should have read chicko's or SavagePotato's comments first. These two are seriously sick with arrogance, and they are usually the ones who start flames on this forum by calling me names and swearing in general. You're definitely targeting the wrong guy here.


RE: Another Apple Article
By totenkopf on 2/16/2009 5:21:25 AM , Rating: 2
So... did you just admit that you wouldn't buy hardware from the Applestore because it's a reeeaaalllly big ripoff? And how am I "tricking" you? I took those prices right from their site. If Apple only sells great stuff, why wouldn't you buy it from them? Even if you do get the price lower using Apple approved hardware bought cheaper from somewhere else, how do explain the fact the the machine I proposed is superior to the macpro? You can't tout Apple's absolute superiority and then turn around and it's "it's just because of newegg", while accusing me of tricking you. You can either admit you're wrong about this one or just go on looking like a moran[sic]. Besides, if you have to put your mac together yourself, doesn't that go against some tenet of the Apple credo? It obviously doesn't "just work"... I think that's called iGotGypped.


RE: Another Apple Article
By totenkopf on 2/16/2009 5:24:06 AM , Rating: 2
And if you can do it, Pirks, than prove it. Show what a great deal the mac pro can be. Go on newegg and price it out.


RE: Another Apple Article
By Pirks on 2/16/2009 12:17:44 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
you wouldn't buy hardware from the Applestore because it's a reeeaaalllly big ripoff?
How is it different from any other similar site like Dell for example?
quote:
If Apple only sells great stuff, why wouldn't you buy it from them?
If Dell sells great stuff, why wouldn't you buy RAM from them? Why do you go to Newegg instead?
quote:
how do explain the fact the the machine I proposed is superior to the macpro?
Faster is not necessarily superior. A solid fuel rocket is much faster than Lexus, but will you commute to your workplace sitting on top of such a rocket?
quote:
if you have to put your mac together yourself, doesn't that go against some tenet of the Apple credo?
No, it doesn't. If you want you can assemble your own Mac Pro starting with some basic Apple's components like case and mobo and stuff. Surprise surprise, totenkopf! You can hand build even your Mac if you want to. I bet you PC zealots never heard of it, eh? ;-)

If you want some VALID price comparisons - why don't you go to Dell and compare 8-core Precision there with similarly configured Mac Pro? Or are you afraid? You may discover something that goes against your religion, so be careful :)))


RE: Another Apple Article
By totenkopf on 2/16/2009 1:22:46 PM , Rating: 2
The fact that you answer all of my questions with questions leads me to believe that you either do not have an answer, or you are avoiding a direct answering because it will make you look bad. For example: Your answer to the applestore being a ripoff is that dell is also a ripoff (the fact that you compare the Applestore to Dell crap is telling). It's almost a red herring argument, except that you do not even try to refute my argument that the apple store is a ripoff... therefor I must conclude that you agree. Besides, did I say anything about Dell? How is that even relevant to this subject?

And to answer your question about Dell selling great stuff... well, IF they did sell great stuff than I would buy it from them. Offering great products/deals is sufficient cause for me to shop at a particular store (hence I shop at newegg). However, I never made any remarks about Dell products being great as you most certainly have said about the Applestore and the MacPro. So my question to you remains unanswered: why wouldn't you buy MacPro hardware from the Applestore? Is it a ripoff?

If using 3rd party stuff to improve you MacPro because you find it lacking is acceptable, than why is it not also acceptable to improve your iPhone with 3rd party stuff if you find it lacking? You reek of hypocrisy. Or does your need to justify your beliefs about Apple justify self contradiction? I think it is our prerogative to augment our own property so long as you aren't hurting someone else (we aren't talking about distribution of anything).

When you are comparing oranges to oranges (multi socket server machine things to other multi socket server machines), I believe that speed IS, in fact, a relevant criterion by which to judge superiority. Comparing a rocket to a Lexis is certainly a fallacy of weak analogy and fails to prove anything at all really, except that you may be a moran[sic]. Certainly, "speed" in the context of my comparison would be sufficient to declare one machine superior.

Oh... and my price comparison is valid. It is an objective value comparison of two similar machines from two different stores. I am arguing that the Applestore is overpriced. I'm not going to disagree that dell is crap... just that the Applestore is a ripoff. Why did you even bring dell into this?


RE: Another Apple Article
By fsardis on 2/16/2009 1:55:26 PM , Rating: 2
In the mean time, if you take a moment to reflect on the discussion, notice how he jumped the argument from consumer electronics to workstation/enterprise level hardware. You argue a point about the prices of mid-level systems and he takes you to the highest level of hardware. Then he tried to argue a pricing point there where Dell and HP dominate the world in those market sectors both in terms of pricing and services.
He cannot grasp the fact that people select Windows not because they are stupid but because it is the superior and cheaper system. He is under the illusion that everyone in the world is stupid and the 1% Mac users are the smart ones. Yet he fails to address the fact that Apple markets their junk by treating its users as moronic apes who cannot even connect a mouse.
There is absolutely no point arguing with Pricks (2-nil). I just wanted to have a laugh at his idiocy and blind obsession with Apple and I think most people here only expect entertainment from him. His posts did provide a good source for laughs at lunch break today, that's about the only value and weight they have.


RE: Another Apple Article
By Pirks on 2/16/2009 3:05:05 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Dell and HP dominate the world in those market sectors both in terms of pricing and services
You never tried to compare pricing of 8-core Dell Precision against similarly configured Mac Pro. It's obvious from your incorrect statements.
quote:
people select Windows not because they are stupid but because it is the superior and cheaper system
Yeah, sure. Chevy Cavalier is both SUPERIOR _and_ CHEAPER than Lexus. Can you stop taking hallucination inducing drugs?
quote:
He is under the illusion that everyone in the world is stupid and the 1% Mac users are the smart ones
Yet another fanatical lie.
quote:
Apple markets their junk by treating its users as moronic apes who cannot even connect a mouse
You have never worked with easily upgradable/moddable and techie-friendly Mac Pro, you illiterate WinPC zealot from "the ripoff industry" (C) totenkopf :))

There is absolutely no point arguing with fuksadris (nil-2). I just wanted to have a laugh at his idiocy and blind obsession with WinPC and I think most people here only expect entertainment from him. His posts did provide a good source for laughs at lunch break today, that's about the only value and weight they have.


RE: Another Apple Article
By Pirks on 2/16/2009 2:56:07 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
did I say anything about Dell? How is that even relevant to this subject?
If you agree that Dell and others are also ripping people off, then you should blame THE INDUSTRY, and not JUST the Apple Inc. Clear?
quote:
why wouldn't you buy MacPro hardware from the Applestore? Is it a ripoff?
Isn't the _WHOLE INDUSTRY_ A RIPOFF THEN???
quote:
why is it not also acceptable to improve your iPhone with 3rd party stuff if you find it lacking?
You never heard of iPhone AppStore WHICH DOES _EXACTLY_ THAT? You never knew AppStore SELLS THIRD PARTY APPS TO IMPROVE IPHONE?? What planet are you from?
quote:
I think it is our prerogative to augment our own property so long as you aren't hurting someone else
Then why don't you use iPhone's AppStore to augment your iPhone property? Is it against your religion or something? :))
quote:
speed IS, in fact, a relevant criterion by which to judge superiority
A relevant criterion, but NOT THE ONLY criterion.
quote:
Certainly, "speed" in the context of my comparison would be sufficient to declare one machine superior
You never heard of people who buy cars NOT _ONLY_ LOOKING AT THE ENGINE'S POWER? You think that ONLY the engine power matters, right? You sad little nerd :))) I know how you buy cars then - you look up the number of cylinders in them and the car with bigger number of cylinders in engine gets your money :))) *ROFL* :))))
quote:
my price comparison is valid. It is an objective value comparison of two similar machines from two different stores
Nope, comparing self assembled PC with a manufactured workstation is invalid. You conveniently forgot the price of designing, testing, assembling and servicing/supporting the thing. You can't wiggle your butt outta this, totenkopf. Your incorrect comparisons won't work, because I know basic economy and you don't :P


RE: Another Apple Article
By fsardis on 2/16/2009 3:59:19 PM , Rating: 2
Hahaha, this is pure gold. Thanks so much for the laughs.
I had not seen for a long time the good old primary school arguing method of repeating what the other said.
That is the average intelligence of a Mac user.

Now on to a few points:

Perhaps you should go check the pricing because I am seeing a cheaper Dell in every aspect for the same hardware.

The problem with AppStore is that they restrict the apps to whatever they like with no clear criteria. It is full of apps that do the same thing and yet lacks apps that have been developped to do new things but were rejected by Apple. So no, it does not improve the phone the way people want. Clear?

You are the one who made it a speed argument by loading a mac pro with ridiculous hardware that a home user will never need and an enterprise user will never buy because he can get it cheaper from Dell. Even on the performance front, I do not recall Apple winning any benchmarks, and honestly how can they when they sell 1 year old hardware at best.

Now you claim you know basic economy. In what universe your basic economy justifies the prices of Apple hardware? Honestly, how do you justify selling old hardware more expensive than new hardware? How do you justify having more security holes than Windows and yet patch them slower?
How do you justify selling a closed platform with strict control over the content and then claiming it gives freedom to users? How many apps are exclusive to Windows and how many are exclusive to Macs?

You cannot win this son. Better luck next time.


RE: Another Apple Article
By Pirks on 2/16/2009 4:30:04 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
you should go check the pricing because I am seeing a cheaper Dell in every aspect for the same hardware
You're right here, now Dell Precisions are about the same price as Mac Pros, although a year ago Mac Pros were about a grand cheaper for the same 8-core configuration.
quote:
it does not improve the phone the way people want
There are other phone makers that allow people to improve the phone the way people want, but they keep losing market share to iPhone, so looks like you misunderstand those people you pretend to care about.
quote:
enterprise user will never buy because he can get it cheaper from Dell
What's the point of getting a machine from Dell if your enterprise Mac-only software won't run on it?
quote:
In what universe your basic economy justifies the prices of Apple hardware?
Basic economy says that market pays the price for the goods that it sees as a reasonable price, i.e. market pays the price it THINKS product is worth. So it's the market that justifies the price of Apple products, not me. I guess you have to ask market why it agrees to pay a premium.
quote:
How do you justify having more security holes than Windows and yet patch them slower?
Why patch holes if there's no malware exploiting them?
quote:
How do you justify selling a closed platform with strict control over the content and then claiming it gives freedom to users?
Because it does give users a freedom. What you talking about is not a freedom, it's an ABSOLUTE freedom AKA anarchy.
quote:
How many apps are exclusive to Windows and how many are exclusive to Macs?
Since you can easily run 99% of all the Windows apps on a Mac using multiple various ways like API emulators, dualboot or VM, your point is moot. You can run absolutely everything from Windows world on a Mac, but try to run something like FCP on Windows you loser :P


RE: Another Apple Article
By Pirks on 2/16/2009 4:54:02 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Since you can easily run 99% of all the Windows apps on a Mac
Oops, I should have put 100% here, not 99%.


RE: Another Apple Article
By fsardis on 2/16/2009 3:47:09 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Faster is not necessarily superior. A solid fuel rocket is much faster than Lexus, but will you commute to your workplace sitting on top of such a rocket?


LAWL. You just shot yourself in the foot. We were talking about iMac and Macbook and you jumped to the Mac Pro. See the irony?


RE: Another Apple Article
By Pirks on 2/16/2009 3:57:44 PM , Rating: 2
totenkopf, we were talking about notebooks and desktops, and you jumped to the 4-socket multiterabyte Newegg hardware. See the irony?


RE: Another Apple Article
By fsardis on 2/16/2009 4:00:47 PM , Rating: 2
you are the one who mentioned the Mac Pro first you tool.


RE: Another Apple Article
By Pirks on 2/16/2009 4:06:51 PM , Rating: 2
You tried to compare big tower PC to notebook or something, so I had to correct you.


RE: Another Apple Article
By fsardis on 2/16/2009 5:13:44 PM , Rating: 2
i compared a standard pc to an iMac. It is not my fault that standard PCs now come in towers while the iMac comes completely enclosed and you can only upgrade the RAM.
It is not my fault you cannot change the battery on Macbooks.
I still compared two equivalents while you jumped to workstation level hardware.
You failed in this argument just as badly as you fail in life.
And for an icing on the cake, why don't you tell us the reason you do not own a Mac?


RE: Another Apple Article
By Pirks on 2/16/2009 5:32:59 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
iMac comes completely enclosed and you can only upgrade the RAM
With TimeCapsule or any other wireless or even wired external solution you can add HDD space here as well.
quote:
you cannot change the battery on Macbooks
Yet another fanatical lie, actually your dumbest and most blatant lie in this thread. You just can't accept truth about Apple products because you're a zealot.
quote:
I still compared two equivalents
Monoblock and tower PC are not equivalent.
quote:
you fail in life
Is this the reason you lie about Apple products so much? To hide your inferiority to others? ;-)
quote:
why don't you tell us the reason you do not own a Mac?
Why don't you tell us the reason I should own a Mac?


RE: Another Apple Article
By fsardis on 2/16/2009 5:54:02 PM , Rating: 2
with time capsule? you mean the backup hardware? how does that solve the internal hard disk problem? and how will that perform any faster than an internal hard disk?

check out your facts about batteries dude. there is only a select few laptops from Apple that let users replace the battery. it is not my fault that this is the sad truth.

Monoblock and tower are equivalents based on how Apple has set the standards for their company. If i want a desktop PC from apple but I do not require a workstation then I only got monoblock as an option. In addition the mini is waste of time for anyone who wants to do any decent work.

i do not need to lie about anything and how far superior or inferior i am is to be determined by others far more important than you.

The reason you should own a Mac is because you defend them so blindly and there is not a single fact you have caught right about them. If you like them so much why don't you buy one and see how you like them apples? At least I have tried them and I know why I hate them.


RE: Another Apple Article
By Pirks on 2/16/2009 6:28:04 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
how does that solve the internal hard disk problem?
What problem? Is one terabyte of local disk space plus unlimited NAS capacity over 802.11n wireless or a gigabit cable not enough for the average home user?
quote:
there is only a select few laptops from Apple that let users replace the battery. it is not my fault that this is the sad truth
There are only two laptops from Apple that make it harder (but not impossible) for the user to replace the battery (you have to unscrew and take off the lid first), and this is moot point because you can use external battery if you want extended capacity. It's exactly the same as lugging spare WinPC notebook battery around. Everything else from Apple has user replaceable-on-the-fly battery.
quote:
it is not my fault that this is the sad truth
Yeah yeah, your lies are sad indeed, that one I can agree upon ;-) You tried to wiggle around and make just two Apple notebook models into EVERY Apple notebook? Aren't you a little sad nerdy WinPC fanatic? :)))
quote:
If i want a desktop PC from apple but I do not require a workstation then I only got monoblock as an option
I think it's more correct to say that Apple doesn't sell an average cheapo home PC as a tower, they sell somewhat different home PC in a different form factor, and it's different enough to be classified in its own category. You're welcome to compare Dell XPS One with iMac for example - these are both monoblocks and hence are eligible for direct comparison.
quote:
i do not need to lie about anything
Then why did you just lie about MacBooks having irreplaceable batteries?
quote:
The reason you should own a Mac is because you defend them so blindly and there is not a single fact you have caught right about them
Let me correct you here :-) I don't own any Apple products precisely because I know what they are and who's their target market. If you were less busy spreading lies about Apple here you'd notice that a long time ago.

And one last thing - if you hate MACHINES, you have some problem with your head and need to see a doctor. It's normal to hate people or at least animals or something living, but hate COMPUTERS??? You need help, my friend.


RE: Another Apple Article
By fsardis on 2/16/2009 9:55:04 PM , Rating: 2
Yes, I am the one who needs help but for now, why don't you go help those poor Mac users.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/02/16/apple_upda...

Awww look at those poor guys. They did the update only to fall back to 2006 code. Isn't Apple the best thing since sliced bread? I am going to buy one tomorrow.


RE: Another Apple Article
By Pirks on 2/16/2009 10:21:56 PM , Rating: 2
http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?com...

Awww look at those poor guys. They did the update only to fall back to endlessly rebooting machine. Isn't Microsoft the best thing since sliced bread? I am going to buy one tomorrow.


RE: Another Apple Article
By soundrave on 2/16/2009 11:42:55 PM , Rating: 2
dear pirks...

you are the trollest / fanboyest / hardcorest apple user i have ever known...

defending your beloved brand as if there's nothing better than apple... it's kinda funny, ridiculous & idiotic... i'm sure anyone who read your statements will agree...

thank you. :D


RE: Another Apple Article
By Pirks on 2/17/2009 1:13:12 AM , Rating: 2
dear soundrave...

you are the stupidest / dumbest / zealotest MS user i have ever known...

defending your beloved brand as if there's nothing better than MS... it's kinda funny, ridiculous & idiotic... i'm sure anyone who read your statements will agree...

thank you. :D


RE: Another Apple Article
By soundrave on 2/17/2009 2:37:02 AM , Rating: 2
you are stupidly wrong...

i'am a windows, ubuntu, red hat AND mac OS x user...now then...

you are the stupidest / dumbest / zealotest APPLE user i have ever known...

defending your beloved brand as if there's nothing better than Apple... it's kinda funny, ridiculous & ULTIMATELY VERY idiotic... NOW I'M REALLY SURE anyone who read your statements will BE EVEN MORE agree...

thank you, VERY VERY VERY MUCH.


RE: Another Apple Article
By Pirks on 2/17/2009 3:37:43 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
i'am a windows, ubuntu, red hat AND mac OS x user
replace ubuntu with os/2 and you got my level of os experience. not that would help you :)


RE: Another Apple Article
By totenkopf on 2/17/2009 1:37:01 AM , Rating: 2
+Rep to fsardis

Pirks, you if you cannot construct legitimate arguments then just stop posting here. All you do is call us MS zealots and hurl ridiculous, uncogent arguments at us.

You justify Apples Bogus crap by comparing it to the equally crappy Dell and saying it's an industry wide problem... good job, Apple is just as bad as Dell? Well played, Sir. That must be a satisfying victory for the Apple team!

What the hell do you know about the car's I buy? The old abusive ad hominem argument... of course, I think speed is an important attribute for my computer, therefor I must decide which car to buy by counting the cylinders. Touche, Pirks... you really got me there. Sigh* Do you even read what you write? It is, as sfardis said, like arguing with a ten-year-old (which begs the question).

When I talk about 3rd party software for the iPhone I'm not talking about stuff from the Appstore. First off, I don't think anything bought from Apple can be considered third party. Second, your point is moot to begin with. If the Appstore were a sufficient source for all the software people wanted, people wouldn't be "jailbreaking" their phones, would they? Oh right... maybe they're MS zealots.

It's sad that I'm even trying to lecture you. Someday you will realize that you are wrong about a lot of things; it will be a painful day indeed. But, on that day, you will finally become a man :D Hooray! Fsardis is right, this is fun... in some strange, sadistic way.

Is that circus music I hear? Pirks must be getting ready to unleash another brilliant post!!!!


RE: Another Apple Article
By soundrave on 2/17/2009 2:42:30 AM , Rating: 2
are you sure it's circus music??

it sounds more like someone is digging a pile of thrash... :D

better get some popcorns totenkopf... i'm looking forward to read what pirks is going to reply next...


RE: Another Apple Article
By Pirks on 2/17/2009 3:57:36 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Apple is just as bad as Dell? Well played, Sir
Hey, you have just admitted this obvious fact about Apple and the industry! You're a quick learner! Good job.

Now the next step: you have to explain why are you picking just on Apple, if this is the problem of the WHOLE INDUSTRY.

Let's see how you wiggle yourself out of this ;-)
quote:
I think speed is an important attribute for my computer
Your arguments about always picking the cheapest computer with the maximum speed for the price clearly show that you only pick computers by speed and price. Hence you must pick your cars the same way. Sounds logical, isn't it? You just measure the engine power in a car, just like you measure what clock frequency and architecture and number of cores the computer's CPU has. It's all the same to you.
quote:
I don't think anything bought from Apple can be considered third party
Oh yeah, so when you buy your Sony TV from Best Buy it's not a Sony TV anymore? It's a Best Buy TV then? :))))) *ROFL*
quote:
If the Appstore were a sufficient source for all the software people wanted, people wouldn't be "jailbreaking" their phones, would they?
If retail stores were a sufficient source for all the Xbox software people wanted, people wouldn't be hacking/cracking their Xboxes, would they?


RE: Another Apple Article
By soundrave on 2/17/2009 5:20:36 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
if retail stores were a sufficient source for all the Xbox software people wanted, people wouldn't be hacking/cracking their Xboxes, would they?


What?

all xbox software are sufficient. people buy xbox to play games, not to browse the internet, not to do spreadsheets or whatever pc can do. people hack the xbox (if you meant the original, not 360) because they know Xbox is capable of more than just a game machine, even though the xbox was DESIGNED AS A GAME MACHINE FIRST!

people hack the iphone because they want a feature that is not available on the iphone, & yet available on other mobile phones out there, even though the iPhone was DESIGN AS A MOBILE PHONE FIRST!

quote:
Your arguments about always picking the cheapest computer with the maximum speed for the price clearly show that you only pick computers by speed and price. Hence you must pick your cars the same way. Sounds logical, isn't it?


picking cars is not the same as picking a computer... it's different.

pirks.. you have a habit of picking invalid comparisons...


RE: Another Apple Article
By Pirks on 2/17/2009 1:25:54 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
people hack the xbox because they know Xbox is capable of more than just a game machine
People hack Xbox 360 (I meant it, not the original one) because they want free games. MS is right when they say hacking Xbox 360 is illegal. Same's true for Apple. Noone is allowed to ruin company's business model just because they like their free apps or games. If you bought iPhone and don't like it - sell it, don't steal others' property and break the copyright law. Nobody forced you to buy that phone, and when you bought it - you agreed to Apple's license terms. Not an excuse to hack and steal.
quote:
people hack the iphone because they want a feature that is not available on the iphone, & yet available on other mobile phones out there
So they should buy those "other mobile phones" instead. If you desperately want Ferrari but can only afford Ford - this is NOT a justification to steal Ferrari. Who cares about what you WANT?? Law says: buy Ford, don't steal. Obey the law. Isn't that simple?
quote:
picking cars is not the same as picking a computer
For you techies it's not the same, but for vast majority of general tech-illiterate public it's the same thing. Hence my comparisons are valid in general, although they may be hard to understand for techies like you.


RE: Another Apple Article
By totenkopf on 2/17/2009 3:26:25 PM , Rating: 2
Fine, Pirks.

Dell precision workstation

2x3.4GHz Xeon CPUs
32GB DDR2 800 RAM
quadro FX4800
4x1TB RAID w/controller
4 24" monitors
$16,319

MacPro

2x3.2GHz Xeon CPUs
32GB DDR2 800 RAM
Quadro FX5600
4x1TB RAID w/controller
2 20" monitors
$19,997

Dell wasn't offering the FX5600 so I threw in a couple extra monitors and the faster Xeons. Dell and Apple are both a ripoff. Apple is a bigger ripoff. Period.

Btw, do you seriously believe jailbreaking an iPhone is like stealing a Ferrari?


RE: Another Apple Article
By Pirks on 2/17/2009 4:02:58 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
you seriously believe jailbreaking an iPhone is like stealing a Ferrari?
People stealing intellectual property get thrown in the jail together with people stealing Ferraris. From the point of view of the law there's no principal difference betwen them. Theft is theft no matter what pretty name you Apple bashers are using.
quote:
Dell and Apple are both a ripoff
Why don't you bash the whole industry then? Why are you bashing only Apple?


RE: Another Apple Article
By fsardis on 2/17/2009 10:00:30 PM , Rating: 2
Because a 15 inch Macbook costs £1370 here and an identical Acer costs £700.
Now STFU.


RE: Another Apple Article
By Pirks on 2/17/2009 10:14:47 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Because a 15 inch Macbook costs £1370 here and an identical Acer costs £700
It's identical for you, but not for me.

And not for any other user who chooses computer like a car, i.e. looking at all characteristics instead of JUST the number of cylinders in the engine.

Now STFU.


RE: Another Apple Article
By fsardis on 2/17/2009 10:33:57 PM , Rating: 2
so what exactly is not identical then? The only difference is that one can run OSX which in itself is a major drawback for anyone who wants to get any serious work done. Forget the argument about using emulators and virtual machines because if you understood the implications of that you would not even be arguing.

So just for OSX it costs double the price? What a deal! Sign me up for 2 please and pack one for the road too.

Interesting case from a recent experience with a client's Mac who wanted to get the latest iMac:
First of all it is not even height adjustable. That makes it almost illegal to use in offices around here because it must provide users with certain comfort adjustments, height being one of them. You can increase the height by sticking something under it but how do you decrease it? Nice one Apple.
So i plug in the printer and i look at the screen. I wait for 2 mins and still no pop up, no sound, no message to tell me that the printer is plugged in. I started looking for some kind of printer configuration menu like windows has. No luck finding that and i thought this is so easy to use. So i just tried to print something and what do you know the printer is there. So it does work like vista in the sense that it has lots of drivers for common devices but a damn notice would have been fine. Whatever happened to giving users feedback for the things that are happening? What a perfect machine. Clearly the Lexus of computing.
Imagine a lexus where you put the key in and nothing happens at all. You gotta step on the gas to find out if the engine is on. Bloody brilliant!


RE: Another Apple Article
By Pirks on 2/17/2009 11:11:23 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
so what exactly is not identical then?
Size, weight, thickness, case material, aesthetics/looks, screen quality/viewing angles/color gamut/response time/etc, type of backligting (LED/CCFL), external ports (no MagSafe on your Acer), touchpad (no multitouch and no large-sized glass touch surface on your Acer), the time interval the notebooks can stay on battery unconnected which depends on OS efficiency and here Vista machines suck like a BIG pump, just read recent notebook reviews on Anandtech, like this: http://www.anandtech.com/mobile/showdoc.aspx?i=343...

See this graph? -> http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/centrino2laptop... <- this is from the notebook review above.

If after looking at this graph and reading all of the above you still can't understand the difference between your cheapo Acer and a MacBook - then you are one of the rare guys who don't see any difference between Chevy Cavalier and Lexus. This, my friend, is not curable. Even I can't cure you, no matter how hard I try.
quote:
So just for OSX it costs double the price?
No, not just OS X, there are many additional things to consider, see above.
quote:
You can increase the height by sticking something under it but how do you decrease it?
Well, I guess if your client is one of those rare jumpy guys who constantly jump up/down at workplace and hence need computer to be constantly height-adjusted... well, then iMac is not for him, I definitely agree.
quote:
Whatever happened to giving users feedback for the things that are happening?
When I press down accelerator on my car I don't expect it to give me a long detailed report on how fuel injection system is being activated and stuff like that. I just want my car to drive forward, THAT IS ALL. Same about computer. I bought a printer, I plugged it in, I print on it, THAT'S ALL USER WANTS FROM THE MACHINE. Just WORK please. No need to give me a Boeing cockpit-full of indicators when I want to print a goddamn sheet of paper. This is how all user friendly machines are supposed to work. Don't bother user with all the little details UNTIL IT'S REALLY NECESSARY.

What's REALLY ironic here is that MS is quickly learninig from Apple's wise UI policies and hastily fixes Vista AKA Win 7 according to them. For example, did you hear that Win 7 default setting for notification panel in the taskbar will be "Do not notify and do not show tray icon"? Guess where did this decision to hide your beloved notifications came from? There you go, some food for thought for your little Windows loving and Apple hating brain :P
quote:
Imagine a lexus where you put the key in and nothing happens at all
Ever heard of a Prius driver who puts in an ignition "key" first time (there's no ignition in electric Prius but whatever) and then asks "what the?... where's my motor? I can't hear sh1t!"

Only later he learns that Prius doesn't show any signs of life when you "turn it on", so to say. It only starts engine when you press a pedal, because it's electric, you know... ah, whatever, I guess you're too dumb to understand such obvious tings... I doubt you even know what Prius is :))


RE: Another Apple Article
By fsardis on 2/17/2009 11:26:20 PM , Rating: 2
yet again you fail to see the point. lets start again:

Case material and other novelties do not interest me. I want to get work done. The things you listed justify double the price? By the way, yes, there is multitouch for anyone with a synaptics pad. It is a simple driver update to enable it provided their laptop is new enough and the pad supports it.
I get 3 hours and 40 mins on vista running on batteries on my acer and I got the small battery in it.

2nd point: I said that by health and safety law the monitor has to be fully adjustable. iMac does not do that. It has nothing to do with the user moving around or jumping. If you cannot grasp such a simple concept you got the IQ of an ape.

3rd point: I merely asked for some sort of feedback that my damn printer is indeed connected. I have spent years studying interfaces and human computer interaction and by all accounts, the system failed to give the user any feedback of its status. That is a fail. Just because others make the same mistake does not make Apple right.

4th, you jumped from a Lexus to a Prius? And you expect to be taken seriously? Do you really think a Lexus would have the same interface as the Prius? Or do you expect anyone to believe that in an electric car you get no console at all showing you at least the battery level when you put the key in? At least that is an indication of status which Apple failed to deliver with the printer.


RE: Another Apple Article
By Pirks on 2/18/2009 4:15:55 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Case material and other novelties do not interest me
You're not the only one buying notebooks.
quote:
The things you listed justify double the price?
Market says yes.
quote:
there is multitouch for anyone with a synaptics pad. It is a simple driver update to enable it provided their laptop is new enough and the pad supports it.
You think only the driver and hardware is enough to have properly working multitouch with multifinger gesture support? Haha. How about OS and applications?

And I don't trust you on that mythical "new driver" with "multitouch support". You lied so much before... got any links to prove your claim?
quote:
I get 3 hours and 40 mins on vista running on batteries on my acer and I got the small battery in it
That's a joke, MacBook gets 5 hours easily, read reviews and see my battery efficiency graph from Anandtech that I posted earlier.
quote:
I said that by health and safety law the monitor has to be fully adjustable
My Acer 20" LCD monitor has no adjustments at all, even tilt is close to nonexistent. Poor me. How could I live with it for past two years? Oh the horror :))) hehe :)
quote:
system failed to give the user any feedback of its status
Feedback just came out of your printer in the form of freshly printed sheet of paper. You just failed to notice it.
quote:
that is an indication of status which Apple failed to deliver with the printer
Like I said your printed sheet of paper is an indication :) If you got everything printed - are you sure you need a special big poster on screen which plays happy music and says "CONGRATULATIONS, YOU JUST PRINTED A SHEET OF PAPER"?


RE: Another Apple Article
By fsardis on 2/17/2009 10:07:53 PM , Rating: 2
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/02/18/macbook_up...

awww look at those poor guys, they cannot even change their batteries on their £1370 notebooks. ROFL!

Oh by the way, I believe anybody would agree that a service pack is a far more elaborate update than a simple security patch. You can expect a service pack to break things but not security patches like Apple has managed. But hey, it came out of Jobs' rear so it must taste great.
Also, call me when Apple stops applying service packs to their OS and selling them as completely new versions. And what fun it is when they do it. I hear Leopard has even worse reputation among iTards than Vista has with PC users and Leopard did not even receive half the flak from the press. Damn it has to suck big time. Good luck with that son. Oh I forgot, EVEN YOU DON' USE MACS!


RE: Another Apple Article
By Pirks on 2/17/2009 10:39:35 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
they cannot even change their batteries on their £1370 notebooks
Why change batteries if you can use external battery? ROFL!
quote:
anybody would agree that a service pack is a far more elaborate update than a simple security patch
Anybody would agree that 1) you can't read and 2) the link I posted was _not_ about Vista SP1 breaking PCs, it was about some minor update that was released BEFORE SP1. Got it, dumbo? :)))
quote:
it came out of Jobs' rear so it must taste great
And your stupid lie about Vista SP1 breaking PCs came out of your rear? :)))
quote:
call me when Apple stops applying service packs to their OS and selling them as completely new versions
Call me when Microsoft stops doing the same.
quote:
I hear Leopard has even worse reputation among iTards than Vista has with PC users and Leopard did not even receive half the flak from the press
Minor events like Leopard's initial problems do not receive much attention in the press. It's only large disasters like Vista that do. It's how media works, nothing to do with MS or Apple.
quote:
EVEN YOU DON'T USE MACS
Yeah, even such hardcore Crysis/Clear Sky gamer as myself does not use Macs! Jobs gonna shoot himself now! :))))) *ROFL*

You know, you don't have to be a particular brand's lover to beat up some dumb trolls who spread lies about that brand. You can catch them when they try to lie. Just like you and "MacBooks can't have their batteries replaced, OMG!", remember? It's so easy to catch ya guys :)


RE: Another Apple Article
By fsardis on 2/17/2009 10:53:11 PM , Rating: 2
1st point: Apple is all about design. I do not thing it looks very elegant to have a wire to an external battery. I would rather just carry an extra battery that I can swap at any point and leave the other one charging at my hotel room if I am out. How can I do that with a Mac?

2nd: They were SP1 prerequisits. I think that qualifies them as a major update and not a security patch. If they must be installed first for the SP1 then they are bound to make some big changes to the system. I see you carefully avoided to address the important issue of the matter though. The so called "update" from Apple installed 2006 version of software! What exactly is up to date with that?

3rd Service packs from Microsoft are free. Leopard is not.

4th, Nothing minor with the disaster Leopard is. The only problem is that nobody cares since the market share is around 1% Around 10% if you measure only home users and small businesses but that is not the entire market.

5th, You CANNOT change the battery on Macbook whether you like it or not it is the truth. You have to give it to apple for a replacement and pay extra for the service. You have admitted a few posts above that you are not up to date with Apple products by saying that a year ago Apple was cheaper (a big lie but not the point). Perhaps you should really go and do some reading.

6th: I wanted to address something you said previously about the iPhone's increasing market share and Apple's for that matter. Perhaps you have not realised (probably too young to know) but Apple had been dead for more than 10 years. Now they are back and they are viciously marketing their stuff. They were at 0 so obviously they can only go up. I have never seen negative numbers in market shares. Have you, oh great economist?


RE: Another Apple Article
By Pirks on 2/17/2009 11:52:25 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Apple is all about design. I do not thing it looks very elegant to have a wire to an external battery
Battery is slapped underneath the notebook like a big thin rectangular pancake and the external cable is so short that it's virtually invisible.
quote:
I would rather just carry an extra battery that I can swap at any point and leave the other one charging at my hotel room if I am out.
Instead of swappable battery Apple offers extra long lasting battery, that's a fair trade to me.
quote:
I think that qualifies them as a major update
Nah, not more major than a security patch. It's still not a large service pack anyway, so you can compare it with a small patch like a security one. Especially since security patches can be pretty large sometimes, a few megs on Vista is often the case.
quote:
The so called "update" from Apple installed 2006 version of software! What exactly is up to date with that?
If the newer version of the software had some security hole - they did the right thing by bringing the old more secure version in, until this hole is fixed at least.
quote:
Service packs from Microsoft are free
Service pack called Windows XP was not free, service pack called Windows 7 is not going to be free either. Check your facts please :)
quote:
Nothing minor with the disaster Leopard is
Nothing major either. Never heard any mass complaints or mass blogger bashings aimed at it, unlike Vista. Hence the relative lack of media attention. If Leopard were the same major disaster as Vista - you Apple bashers would be all over it a loooong time ago. But looks you never had your chance, alas.
quote:
You CANNOT change the battery on Macbook
Why then every review of a MacBook describes how you can change the battery there? Who's lying, you or them? Read this: http://www.macintouch.com/reviews/alumabook/

Gonna lie again about non-replaceable battery after reading this review? Let's see how thick your skull is :)))
quote:
They were at 0 so obviously they can only go up
So why then they went from 0 to SECOND PLACE in smartphone OS market share SO _FAST_? Got any idea about this speed? No, really, why SO FAST?? Why MS was focking around this market for like 10 years and Apple just smashed it in TWO YEARS? Tell me, tell me, I wanna see how you gonna wiggle out of this ;-)


RE: Another Apple Article
By fsardis on 2/18/2009 9:17:47 PM , Rating: 2
Yay! More idiocy. Let's entertain.

I will not argue subjectively about the design. Still the fact you have to carry an extra large battery around rather than 2 small ones sounds to me very inconvenient. At the same time, when the battery needs replacement after 2 years, you gotta pay Apple to do it for you. Nice one but I would rather do it for free like with any other laptop.

Now on to the updates. Yes they were far more major than a security patch. They prepared the system for a major update. It really does not take a genius to realise it but since you seem to have a low IQ, why don't you go to an Apple Store and ask someone at the genius bar to explain it to you?
Again the so called update that falls back to 2006 is absolutely ridiculous by any industry standard and yet you defend it. You have really made a point there...

Service packs are not free? Orly? Care to explain please how exactly W7 and XP are service packs and service packs of what? Do you even know what you are talking about here? I do not think you got any relation to the I.T industry.

As for the disaster Leopard is, I do not have to say much about it. All you gotta do is check the popular Mac forums and see the general sentiment of Mactards for it. Some choice topics were related to eternal log in screens, eternal file transfers, loads of bugs and many more surprise topics that I will let you discover on your own.

On the battery front, I did not say none of their models allow users to replace the battery. Check the link I provided in another post that explains what the case is. If you are too thick to get it, it is not my fault.


RE: Another Apple Article
By Pirks on 2/19/2009 2:19:45 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Still the fact you have to carry an extra large battery around rather than 2 small ones sounds to me very inconvenient
It's the same, one large or two small. No difference.
quote:
At the same time, when the battery needs replacement after 2 years, you gotta pay Apple to do it for you.
Where did you get this "2 years" from? From your rear I guess? Here's what Engadget guys wrote:

***quote***
The new battery in these things doesn't deteriorate like the one in the current MacBook Pro, another huge plus. The battery was made to be not replaceable so, in turn, we get 40% more battery life.

It's the same thing as with the iPhone. The non-replaceable battery is a huge problem in lots of people's minds who don't actually have one. It's a complete non-issue for all real world actual iPhone users. I am the only person I know who ever even bought a replacement battery for my Nokia.
***quote***

Sounds like more than 2 years. Closer to 4 I'd say. The only people screaming murder about it are a few zealots like you.

Noone among real MBP users ever bothered with this. Pay 180 bucks in 4 years to replace your battery? That's 45 bucks a year, sure it's a huge amount... for a zealot like you :)))
quote:
Nice one but I would rather do it for free like with any other laptop.
Oh yeah, you just get FREE replacement batteries every 2 years or so. They just give them to you, eh? 'Cause you got nice blue sexy eyes, or something else? Tell me the secret, how are you gonna get those FREE replacement batteries for your notebook every couple of years? I want those too! :)))
quote:
Yes they were far more major than a security patch. They prepared the system for a major update
But they were not the major update themselves. Your theory that these updates are somehow MUCH more important and heavyweight than your typical large monthly security rollup for Vista is straight out of your rear. It should have stayed there :) You can't even prove it, why bother? :)) Say what you want, it's just your beliefs. Keep your faith, I won't intervene.
quote:
the so called update that falls back to 2006 is absolutely ridiculous by any industry standard
The update that temporarily replaces new insecure code with an old version (without a security hole) is ridiculous only for a zealot like you. It's perfectly normal because plugging the hole as soon as possible is a top priority, even if you do it by rolling your code back for a while. Guess I'm wasting my time preaching obvious things to a noob who has no idea about maintaining secure codebase... whatever
quote:
Care to explain please how exactly W7 and XP are service packs and service packs of what?
Care to explain please how exactly Leopard and Tiger are service packs and service packs of what?
quote:
check the popular Mac forums and see the general sentiment of Mactards for it
Why don't you check the popular Windows forums and see the general sentiment of PC users for Vista?

Do you even consider OS normal when it doesn't allow you to share your media library to your home private networks if you have at least one public network on the same computer?

Do you consider it normal when _by design_ OS throttles network traffic when audio stream is played back?

Man, such f#cked up design decisions make ANY OS X version to look like a product of a genius compared to Vista, seriously. You're just a blind zealot who has no idea about TOTALLY f#cked up Vista DESIGN. It's not just bugs, my friend, a DESIGN is f#cked up! This is serious stuff no matter what zealots cry about their idol OSes.

I wish these problems were just temporary bugs like in Leopard after release. I really wish, 'cause I've been using Vista since early 2007 and I went through all this. Sing your songs and lick your beloved Ballmer's buttocks, whatever. I've got my precious REAL LIFE EXPERIENCE maintaining my home Vista systems, and you can do NOTHING about it, fanatic :P
quote:
I did not say none of their models allow users to replace the battery
You implied it when you mentioned "MacBook" in general. You didn't mention specific model, you said "MacBook", which in English implies "all MacBooks in general". Got it?


RE: Another Apple Article
By soundrave on 2/17/2009 11:29:01 PM , Rating: 2
daaammmnnn pirks...

you always find ways to defend your beloved apple.. like any fanboys do! ;p and no, i'm not a fanboy of any product..

is it worth to pay premiums to own an apple product when a comparable product with similar specs is cheaper? tell me, are the tech-illiterate users looking at the specs or prices? or value for money?

and please pirks.. stop comparing computers with cars... how the VAST MAJORITY approach in making decisions on purchasing a car is vastly different than purchasing a computer...

by the way pirks.. how old are you?


RE: Another Apple Article
By Pirks on 2/18/2009 4:28:25 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
is it worth to pay premiums to own an apple product when a comparable product with similar specs is cheaper?
Is it worth to pay premium for Honda over Chevrolet? Market says yes. And market is WAY bigger than you alone.
quote:
are the tech-illiterate users looking at the specs or prices?
They look NOT ONLY at specs and prices, unlike you techies.
quote:
VAST MAJORITY approach in making decisions on purchasing a car is vastly different than purchasing a computer
How so? I'm not buying such a nonsense without a proof

by the way soundrave.. how old are you?


RE: Another Apple Article
By fsardis on 2/18/2009 3:29:07 PM , Rating: 2
I am sorry when did market say yes on paying premium? What is the market share of Apple on computer products exactly? Or have you missed the part where 90% of their revenue is from gadgets and not computers? So the market is basically saying no except for a tiny part. You have failed the argument completely on this one.

I am sorry again but your average tech-illiterate will not know the difference between OLED and LCD and they will not give a damn about the other trinkets that come with iCrap. On top of that, they will opt for a PC anyway because the chances are their tech-literate mates are using PC and they can help them sort it out. With Apple they will be completely lost and believe me it is not as idiot proof as Jobs claims.

Finally, when you purchase a car there are several factors that you have to consider but the simple fact here is that more people are aware and know what those factors are for cars than they know about the factors in computer hardware and software. With that out of the way, the analogy is very flawed purely due to the mentality of a person when buying a car versus buying a computer. A computer you will keep for only a fraction of the time you intend to keep a car and in addition it is a fraction of the cost of the car. Not only that but it is very affordable to buy a high spec PC as opposed to a high spec car. The dilemma for your average computer buyer is what price I am going to pay and which one looks better on paper in terms of CPU clock, RAM and HDD. Anything beyond that is totally irrelevant except maybe the size of the monitor. This is exactly where Apple loses because for the same price the user will see lower specs and on top of that they see a fixed screen size that you cannot upgrade 2 years down the line and of course. A little more digging and it gets worse because they cannot really upgrade the hard disk even on a desktop. The only accessible part is RAM. A bit more digging and you find that their desktops actually use mobile parts which also means slower than a PC. See where I am going with this?

So to sum it up, the market says It is not justified to pay the premium and hence the small market share Apple holds and the market is WAY bigger than you alone. Yes, the average user does look at specs, just go and ask anyone and see the first things they will mention. I will bet a PC they will say CPU, RAM and HDD and maybe screen size. And finally, your analogy sucks because they are two completely different types of goods at completely different price points with completely different life span.

By the way, how old are you?


RE: Another Apple Article
By Pirks on 2/18/2009 4:29:05 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
when did market say yes on paying premium?
When Mac sales and market share started to grow year over year, since early 2000s till today.
quote:
90% of their revenue is from gadgets and not computers?
No proof - hence it's just another lie of yours.
quote:
So the market is basically saying no except for a tiny part. You have failed the argument completely on this one.
The market is basically saying yes because that tiny part is constantly expanding. You have failed to notice it, 'cause it contradicts your religion.
quote:
tech-illiterate will not know the difference between OLED and LCD and they will not give a damn about the other trinkets
If this were true people would stop buying hi-tech comfy Lexuses 'cause they wouldn't know all the hi-tech nav systems and memory seats and other trinkets. They would just buy cheapo basic Chevy because their tech-literate car mechanic owns one. Your logic contradicts real world consumer behavior.
quote:
With Apple they will be completely lost and believe me it is not as idiot proof as Jobs claims
I believe that XP gives everyone an admin account from which it's a couple of clicks to ruin the system, while OS X gives everyone a limited account from which it's considerably harder to ruin anything in the system core as easy as in XP.
quote:
more people are aware and know what those factors are for cars than they know about the factors in computer hardware and software
Nope, they all are the same for the average Joe. Car has capacity, speed, steering, power, size, looks, etc. Computer has memory, CPU, screen, disk capacity, size, looks, etc. More or less the same. Joe knows neither about what fuel injection chip controls his engine's car, nor what revision of Penryn is in his notebook.

Approximately a dozen parameters more or less define both a computer and a car. It doesn't matter what parameter it is exactly, there is no principal difference between "car handling" and "screen quality" for example, they both just vary from "good" to "bad" for our average Joe. Got the idea?
quote:
A computer you will keep for only a fraction of the time you intend to keep a car
Totally not true.
quote:
The dilemma for your average computer buyer is what price I am going to pay and which one looks better on paper in terms of CPU clock, RAM and HDD. Anything beyond that is totally irrelevant except maybe the size of the monitor
It's the same as saying "car buyers don't pay attention to quality of car's interior materials, be it fine leather or a washed out old dirty cloth, they look _only_ at engine horsepower and price, and NOTHING ELSE". Do you realize that this is pure nonsense?
quote:
A little more digging and it gets worse because they cannot really upgrade the hard disk even on a desktop.
People don't upgrade cars, they change them. Same is true for computers. Why upgrade? Use your iMac for 5 years, then sell it and buy a new one. What's the problem with that?
quote:
their desktops actually use mobile parts which also means slower than a PC
Another funny lie :))) Where did you get this from? At least this one is not as boring as your other lies, it's kind of funny actually :)) Care to show me your sources? Tough question, eh? ;-)
quote:
the small market share Apple holds
If market says no, why Apple's market share is constantly expanding then? Another tough question for ya :))

By the way, how old are you?


RE: Another Apple Article
By fsardis on 2/18/2009 9:00:02 PM , Rating: 1
Oh my goodness you are a f-ing idiot. You iShit chucking ape, you have got to be the most fanatical iCrap idiot I have ever spoken to. Lets pwn you again shall we? I think the LULz value is priceless for people following this.

Mac sales went up I agree. I made a point further up though that you conveniently failed to address. Apple had been dead for more than 10 years. THEY WERE AT 0 YOU IDIOT. THEY CAN ONLY GO UP. So what you said proves nothing except how dumb you are which is fine because every Mac supporter is dumber than a box of bricks, you Pricks.

Now on to the second point:
http://www.geek.com/articles/mobile/apple-revenue-...

Read this and cry. Mac growth 4% and iPods growth 61%. So where is the revenue coming from again, you iFucktard? Another fanatical lie eh? From Jobs himself?

So the market is saying yes because the tiny part is expanding eh? Hmmm,
http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/opinion/058/10...

Have a look at that one. I will not analyse further because you are just too dumb to understand it and if you do not have the basic intelligence to see this for yourself then you will never understand it even if Jobs makes it super idiot proof for someone like you.

Now, lets examine how my logic contradicts real consumer behaviour. Buying a Lexus is a status symbol for many and a comfort and luxury symbol for many more. Buying a Mac is what of the above exactly? And who buys a Mac because they see it as a status symbol? Even for that kind of people, Sony holds the top with their VAIO line. That is another very expensive line just as bad as Apple but hey at least they do not claim to be the best thing since sliced bread and they do not make their success by putting down others in the industry (cough adverts cough). I think most people would agree though that it takes a very sad person to view a computer as a status symbol. Guess how sad that makes you.

I will not address the rest of your car analogy arguments because you are too stupid to understand, yet again you have proven it by saying that consumers buy computers with intent to keep it for as long as their car. What next? They give it the same value as a car? Perhaps Apple should start charging around 20k for their products. Oh hang on, Mac Pro... "facepalm"

So lets entertain now the mobile parts theorem shall we?
http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies-archi...
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=47838...
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=29681...
http://www.mac-forums.com/forums/apple-desktops/54...

I don't know, is this enough for you? There is loads more where these came from if your tiny brain cannot digest this info. Notice how the last 3 actually come from Apple endorsed sites and those talking are the same fanatical apes as you.

And again for the last time. Apple had been dead for more than 10 years and they were revived with the iPod and products descending from that gadget including the halo effect for computers. Their market share is only going up because IT WAS 0! You cannot go below 0 you can only go up, so to anyone with the basic intelligence of a chicken this is clear. Again, it is Apple's own admission that it is their gadgets that make their revenue and not computers so the market has spoken and it is still speaking and it is still saying that only a minority like Macs. Infact it is such a small minority that statistically it can be considered an anomaly and really it would take someone anomalous like you to like Macs. Now considering that unlike Lexus they are far more affordable for an average consumer, how do you explain that the market still rejects them? I mean not everyone has 60k or more for a Lexus but most can spend around 1400 on a Mac and yet they choose to spend the same or less on a PC. Hmmm, food for thought...

So how about this: you tell us your age and exactly what qualifications you have on I.T. because you are clearly clueless and you prove it in every post.
You also tell us when was the last time you checked prices because you were caught with your pants down a few posts above saying Mac is cheaper or that it used to be years ago.

And finally for a change WHY DON'T YOU REPLY TO ENTIRE SENTENCES AND NOT SINGLED OUT PARTS OF THEM THAT YOU CUT TO YOUR NEEDS?


RE: Another Apple Article
By Pirks on 2/19/2009 3:15:35 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
THEY CAN ONLY GO UP
Does it mean Windows share can only go down now? :))) Are you really predicting Windows share shrinking to nothing in future, just because "THEY CAN ONLY GO UP"??? Haha, what a clown you are :))) *ROFL*
quote:
Mac growth 4% and iPods growth 61%
How much more does Mac cost compared to iPod? If you compare average selling price of iPod (say a hundred bucks) and an average selling price of a Mac (say a thousand bucks) then you'll find out that MONEY-WISE the growth IS THE SAME! Your fanaticism will prevent you from understanding such an obvious fact of economics, but maybe other people who follow this will understand. Just read robinthakur's posts here, the guy is MUCH smarter than you. I'm sure he would get it immediately.
quote:
http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/opinion/058/10...
Business as usual. Fanatics envy, cry and hiss about Apple "inevitably going down, you just wait!", they cry and hiss for how many years already? Like 10 years or so? Keep hissing, idiots, I'll enjoy watching Apple financials grow more and more healthy while MS keeps shrinking. The recent Apple earnings call only proves my point. Every single WinPC fanatic like you was predicting Apple's fail, and what did we see instead? Apple posted another quarter of growth while MS STARTED TO LAY PEOPLE OFF! Aren't you enjoying this, clowns? You like it when Apple grows and hires, while MS loses market share and fires its employees? Are you getting too excited and cranky watching this, my dear PC zealots? :))) Time to go to bed and get some sleep, tomorrow you'll be less agitated, and maybe you'll think up some more funny BS to entertain me ;-)
quote:
Buying a Lexus is a status symbol for many and a comfort and luxury symbol for many more
Nah, it's just a nice car. Symbol and status is more like Ferrari or Maybach or some Italian exotics. In PC world status symbol is more like Alienware, Voodoo, FNW, Asus Ferrari and Asus Lamborghini. Macs are not about this, they are more about comfort, so they are closer to comfy cars like Lexus or Camry XLE, something like that. Take MBP 17" for example. There's no flashy Ferrari lights, no leather, no stickers everywhere, nothing. It's just an aluminum brick, no flashy things at all. It's utilitarian and grey and comfy. It just works, like Camry or something. You can't impress by grey and utilitarian, you know. You need kind of flashy Asus Ferrari for that.
quote:
it takes a very sad person to view a computer as a status symbol
I agree here. That's why Mac users usually don't treat their Macs as a status symbol. That'd be as dumb as treating your refrigerator as a status symbol :)))
quote:
consumers buy computers with intent to keep it for as long as their car
Why not? You keep your car 5-6 years, and you keep your Mac 5-6 years too. See any problem with that?
quote:
lets entertain now the mobile parts theorem shall we?
Does it change the fact that 3.06GHz iMac is still much faster than vast majority of Windows PCs out there? I'm afraid it doesn't :P
quote:
http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies-archi...
Do you read your own links, idiot? Here's a quote from that link of yours above:

"As for using laptop parts, yes and no, as for does it matter? certainly not, these imacs have the power of any other desktop machine out there."

Got it, you pathetic loser unable to read your own links? :-))) Like I said already - LEARN TO READ, DUMBO
quote:
it is Apple's own admission that it is their gadgets that make their revenue
That's a fanatical lie again. Apple never said that.
quote:
it is still saying that only a minority like Macs
Yeah, and only a minority drive comfy luxury cars, most people drive junk Ladas and bicycles. Sad, sad world, isn't it? ;-)
quote:
unlike Lexus they are far more affordable for an average consumer, how do you explain that the market still rejects them?
For the same reason market rejects luxury cars. Isn't it obvious?
quote:
most can spend around 1400 on a Mac and yet they choose to spend the same or less on a PC
Who spends $1400 on a PC? Are you TOTALLY nuts?? :))) Jeez, anything above $700 is _really_ weird spending behavior for an average illiterate PC user on a budget, which is 90% of a computer buying public these days.
quote:
you tell us your age and exactly what qualifications you have on I.T.
Why don't we begin with you, eh? ;-) You first :P
quote:
tell us when was the last time you checked prices
Prices on what exactly? There are gazillions of prices out there, which ones precisely are you interested in?
quote:
WHY DON'T YOU REPLY TO ENTIRE SENTENCES
WHY _SHOULD_ I REPLY TO ENTIRE SENTENCES?


RE: Another Apple Article
By fsardis on 2/19/2009 7:28:25 AM , Rating: 2
More fun provided by the idiot. This is getting old now. Lets examine your idiocy yet again.

It seems you are unable to grasp the simple concept that when someone is at 0 they can only go up and when they are at 80% the chances are they will go down. It is a fixed size pie you idiot, what one is eating comes out from the other. Yes windows market share could shrink or apple could start shrinking again. your point is?

The growth argument is totally flawed. It is two completely different segments of the market and you cannot compare the growths similarly just by saying one is more expensive than the other. With that aside, there are plenty of links that prove how the main income for apple is the ipod and iphone. I am sure you can dig a bit on your own. Or is that against your religion?

The car argument you made again is just as retarded as everything else you say. Up to now you have been comparing them to Lexus. Now they are not Lexus? Go ask anyone out there if a Lexus is a status symbol or not. Purely based on the price point it is a status symbol whether you like it or not.

Mac users don't treat their mac as a status symbol? Are you kidding me? Ever heard of iSmug? Ever been to an apple store? All the monkeys act like they are superior than everyone else and yet they go and ask the genius why their safari cannot display a site and in the process they have to pull every karate move imaginable because they are unable to explain in words what they want.

Now, how about you prove to me that they are faster than a PC running windows? In case you have no clue, mobile parts are usually a tiny bit slower than full desktop parts but the major point here is that they are not upgradeable. I do not argue against their benefits for the size of the machines but the philosophy is just backwards right from the start because instead of starting with something usable and powerful they go for design and everything else comes second. Do i read my own links? Yes I do. Does that guy know what he is talking about? Don't think so. See my link further down for the great benefits of mobile parts on the desktop.

Back to the car argument. People keep their cars for about 10 years or more and their computers for 3 or 4 years. You can google it yourself, I will not feed your again.
Oh by the way, you are running in circles with the Lexus argument. Can you please decide whether or not the market accepts them or rejects them? Can you also please make up your mind about the price points? You seem to have confused computer prices for car prices. It does not look like market acceptance for sales to go up just 6% on their computers. In contrast have a look at this for Microsoft
http://www.microsoft.com/msft/earnings/FY08/earn_r...
And we are talking just software here and a few hardware pieces. You can also ponder on this: If you combine the growth of all PC manufacturers will it be more than 6%? Just remember that Apple is 1 against many and just because one PC company has not grown more than 6% does not mean that all of them together did not.

Anything above 700$ is weird eh? Has it ever occurred to you, you stupid redneck that the whole world is not America and that in Europe the cheapest is around £450 which is about 700$?

You want my qualifications eh? 1st class honours IT BSc, Currently finishing MSc in computer networks and on track for another 1st class honours and in Janury 2010 I am starting PhD in WiCom. Only a handful of universities do WiCom so I will let you guess where I am. Let me guess about you, borderline pass in kebab wrapping at a local shop with MSc in burger flipping?

quote:
Prices on what exactly? There are gazillions of prices out there, which ones precisely are you interested in?


Kebab prices. Can you tell me the difference in price between salad and without salad?

quote:
WHY _SHOULD_ I REPLY TO ENTIRE SENTENCES?


If you wanna troll then keep it subtle with a hints of intelligence and some decent arguments. This is too obvious son.


RE: Another Apple Article
By totenkopf on 2/18/2009 7:08:59 PM , Rating: 2
How can YOU demand proof, Pirks? All you ever do here is make gross generalizations about us and how the public buys computers and cars and what not. The burden of proof is on you. I have priced out a couple different machines to prove my point, you just choose to ignore it or whine about Dell and the evil industry. You use ridiculous analogies that don't prove anything, and have this habit of answering peoples questions with the same question directed back at them; have you even hit adolescence yet? Arguing with you is pointless (actually it's barely arguing, almost nothing Pirks says is legitimate).


RE: Another Apple Article
By Pirks on 2/18/2009 7:25:23 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I have priced out a couple different machines to prove my point
What point? The point that you can assemble PC that's cheaper than a manufactured one? I never argued with that. First you think up something stupid, next you somehow assume it was me who said it, and here we go - you start arguing with yourself. Good job. Sheesh
quote:
whine about Dell and the evil industry
It was you who whined about "industry ripoff", not me. Good luck arguing with yourself :))
quote:
almost nothing Pirks says is legitimate
I can't believe it! totenkopf just said that ALMOST nothing I say is true, hence there's a crack in his shiny WinPC armor. Where's that crack, totenkopf? Show me. What exactly did I say that you somehow considered NOT being wrong? I wanna know this mystery :)


RE: Another Apple Article
By fsardis on 2/18/2009 9:26:06 PM , Rating: 2
No, the point that you can spec two identical machines from Dell and Apple and still save loads on the Dell. Of course one who is not as narrow minded as you are can see that the PC market is not just Dell and you got alternatives like Acer and HP etc. ALL CHEAPER THAN APPLE! And for the techies like me we got an option to actually build a PC ourselves and save even more. Have you seen Apple sell parts lately so their techy users can build their own and save money? Didn't think so...

Sorry Pricks, you are the one who threw the argument that the entire industry is just as evil and that we should complain again Dell and others. An argument which is pathetically wrong as others have shown you how Dell is cheaper and provides better service. Case in point: Apple does not send techs home to repair a machine, you gotta take it to the store. Dell gives next day tech in your house service. See why the industry prefers PCs yet? It is called CUSTOMER CARE and SERVICES. Obviously something not in Jobs' vocabulary.

I am sorry but the dude is right. Nothing you say is legitimate. Nothing has even a remote connection to reality. You seem to be stuck about 5 years ago when Apple introduced the first iPod and you seem to have created a world in your mind where Apple has a higher popularity than what it currently posses and deserves. I have started providing links for you. Hopefully if you are not a chicken brain you will wake up. My money is on the chicken brain.


RE: Another Apple Article
By Pirks on 2/19/2009 3:37:07 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
you can spec two identical machines from Dell and Apple and still save loads on the Dell
They are not identical, case/frame, OS, software and terms of service are different.
quote:
ALL CHEAPER THAN APPLE
And all Chevys are cheaper than Lexuses, so what? Price alone means sh1t.
quote:
for the techies like me we got an option to actually build a PC ourselves and save even more
For the techie like me I got an option to actually build a Mac Pro myself and save even more :P
quote:
Have you seen Apple sell parts lately so their techy users can build their own and save money?
I've seen gazillions of used Macs/PowerMacs/Mac Pros/parts/etc on eBay plus all the new Mac Pros and parts from any store I could find online, MacMall shmacmall and so on and so forth. So there's plenty of cheapo hardware for the techie to build his own Mac. Or not so cheapo hardware :-) All in all it's like the Big PC World, just smaller and cuter. A niche submarket actually.
quote:
others have shown you how Dell is cheaper and provides better service
I don't know about "others" but totenkopf here mentioned a few times that Dell and other PC makers are ripoffs. So you have to address your questions to him.
quote:
It is called CUSTOMER CARE and SERVICES
Yeah, yeah, and the real explanation is pretty far from your fantasies. Macs just get less problems than PCs, hence the need for a heavyweight dedicated service is much less than for a PC that works in some important industry and needs a Dell technician right there right now when manufacturing line computer craps out due to another Conficker or something. For a Mac an Apple store guy is more than enough in most cases.
quote:
I have started providing links for you
Which you don't read yourself. Case in point: your link about "iMac is SLOOOWER THAN DESKTOP PC OMG" above, which I already discussed in my previous post :))))


RE: Another Apple Article
By fsardis on 2/19/2009 7:44:42 AM , Rating: 2
Oh yes I love the TOS part. With apple you even licence the hardware and you are only allowed to do what they say with it. Case in point, iPhone. Pure brilliance. Again you failed to explain what is superior in having everything enclosed in a monitor with no user upgradeable parts apart from RAM. You failed to explain how I upgrade the monitor on an iMac and how I am supposed to get 5.1 sound out of them. I bough the 24" one just last week for a client and it only has a stereo jack output, 2 USB ports, and one external monitor port. Such a superior piece of kit... Again, if the whole kit maintained the price point but went for a tower form with more USB ports and more upgrade options do you think it would not sell better? I for one would buy it.

Price alone does not mean much but price/performance does and Apple fails. Value for money is terrible and that is why you see more driving Lexus than working on Macs. Even on that argument you fail miserably.

I refuse to argue with you about Mac Pro because you keep arguing in circles. First you talk about the average stupid user who needs a desktop and then you go to workstations. Well guess what, in the PC market we do not need to splash the cash for a workstation to get hardware upgrade ability or build our own from scratch.

Macs get less problems that PCs? Are you for real? Go have a look at the waiting time for the genius bar. And why do sites like MacFixIt exist you idiot? I do not understand how you came to that brilliant conclusion.

Here is a brilliant link here that describes you and all iTards like you along with Apple. I particularly like the unspoken message part. Honestly, I could not describe Apple any better than a gay version of PC.

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=ma...


RE: Another Apple Article
By soundrave on 2/18/2009 8:19:51 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Is it worth to pay premium for Honda over Chevrolet? Market says yes. And market is WAY bigger than you alone.


if you have 6 (parents+4 kids) people to carry, while the honda only allows you to carry 4, any other brands that allow you to carry your 6 family members at LOWER PRICE in relatively comfortable environment is worth it. and by the way, honda still doesn't have a mass market people carrier in their vehicle line up pirks.. (ODYSSEY & STREAM does not count as an affordable MPV)

quote:
They look NOT ONLY at specs and prices, unlike you techies.


and YET THEY DO! if your customer just want to do some document works, check emails, social networking or non of the heavy stuffs (gaming for example) they will ALWAYS see a MAC as an expensive alternative. and that what always turn them off. it's the same with the higher market. let your business/enterprise customers decide, and they always choose a pc over a MAC.

quote:
How so? I'm not buying such a nonsense without a proof

add this to what i stated above: a guy needs a powerful computer at an acceptable price so he can work on his engineering/product/graphic/photography designs at home. he could bought a very expensive PC OR EVEN A MAC to cater to his high spec work requirements. for him, THE SPECS MATTERS.

and then at the same time, he needs to buy a car to transport his ever growing family. does he really look at the car's specs (POWER, TORQUE,ACCELERATION TIMES etc) or is he looking something comfortable and affordable with space? this is where SPECS DOES NOT MATTERS. you surely dont want a car that can accelerate 0-60 in sub 4 or 5 seconds when you have 6 people to carry. the momentum would be too huge.

can't you see how different the computer & car market is?

have you ever bought a car? do you ever have kids? how old are you?

yes pirks. the market is way bigger than me. i realize that a long time ago. unlike you.


RE: Another Apple Article
By fsardis on 2/18/2009 9:04:40 PM , Rating: 2
let him boil in his own juice. Watch my post above. I cannot expect his reply to that one. I even made the points bold for him hoping his ADD will not give him trouble again focusing on the main points and hopefully for once he will reply to the point of entire sentences and not to parts that he singles out.


RE: Another Apple Article
By Pirks on 2/19/2009 3:48:31 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
ODYSSEY & STREAM does not count as an affordable MPV
I wasn't talking about _affordable_ MPVs, I meant MPVs in general. Or cars in general, if you want.
quote:
they will ALWAYS see a MAC as an expensive alternative. and that what always turn them off
Nah, not always, especially when they realize what are they paying extra money for.
quote:
let your business/enterprise customers decide, and they always choose a pc over a MAC
Well, busnesses always prefer to go for cheaper junk to save money, this is normal. Who cares about average Joe's workplace? Some junk box will do, especially when there are jobless everywhere and business owner knows Joe won't really complain ;-)
quote:
for him, THE SPECS MATTERS
I never said specs don't matter, I only argued against focusing solely on specs and on specs alone. This is plain wrong.
quote:
this is where SPECS DOES NOT MATTER
Still, for most people basic car specs matter too, so I disagree the guy just looks at the car and asks no questions about what's inside. That's unrealistic situation. You don't wanna buy an electric car when you have no plugs in your garage, or you don't wanna buy a diesel when you don't have diesel fuel stations nearby. Stuff like that. I'm looking into buying a small car for my wife right now so I know what I'm talking about.


RE: Another Apple Article
By soundrave on 2/19/2009 5:26:26 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Nah, not always, especially when they realize what are they paying extra money for.


no pirks.. what they realize is more like "i'm gonna be cool cause i'm going to buy an apple!"..

quote:
Well, busnesses always prefer to go for cheaper junk to save money, this is normal.


no pirks... PCs are not junks.. when you consider the number of units HP/IBM/DELL shipped to these large business users, certainly you can't call them junks right? if they are really junks, why do large corporations want to waste their money investing on these PCs?

quote:
Still, for most people basic car specs matter too, so I disagree the guy just looks at the car and asks no questions about what's inside.


not most people pirks. although everybody looks at the specs and questions what's inside a car, in the end PRICE and RETURN OF VALUE are factors people looking into when they buy a car... thats why car manufacturers produce entry level model of a car (let's just say a 1800cc honda civic) in higher quantities than the premium model (a 2000cc honda civic with all the bells and whistles). now then, does engine capacity matters in this? do cruise control or leather seats or xenon headlamps can influence people to buy the more expensive model? MOST of them don't... they will go for the cheaper model.

quote:
you don't wanna buy a diesel when you don't have diesel fuel stations nearby


why you want to? car manufacturers will not sell diesel cars if there are no diesel stations in the market they want to sell. ;p


RE: Another Apple Article
By fsardis on 2/19/2009 7:51:39 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Well, busnesses always prefer to go for cheaper junk to save money, this is normal. Who cares about average Joe's workplace? Some junk box will do, especially when there are jobless everywhere and business owner knows Joe won't really complain ;-)


Typical uneducated techie perception of computers. You do not need to provide your education to us. The above clearly demonstrates how much you know. So let me enlighten you on the matter. First of all you do not buy any kind of just that will break after 6 months. You also got to make sure you are compatible with the rest of the industry. At the same time you have to analyse the performance and see which one meets your requirements. Reliability is of course the most important factor and that hardly exists in pieces of junk. You think companies just go out and buy the cheapest they find to save money but unfortunately for you what really happens is month of research and studies before a decision is made, especially on very large companies that are the bread and butter of the likes of HP and Dell.

I am beginning to get really disappointed that I am even arguing with someone like you.


RE: Another Apple Article
By Pirks on 2/20/2009 11:22:52 PM , Rating: 2
To soundrave:
quote:
what they realize is more like "i'm gonna be cool cause i'm going to buy an apple!"
That's a lie. Only a tiny minority of Apple users buy Macs just because they want to look cool.
quote:
if they are really junks, why do large corporations want to waste their money investing on these PCs?
'Cause they are so cheap. Why bother with expensive stuff if you can buy a cheap stuff and happily report to your boss that IT spending is down to zero? Boss will give you a promotion or something. Will anybody notice users suffering from Windows problems and virii? Not likely, they just hire a few more admins later... but who cares if you just reported your IT costs going down to zero. You got your promotion so screw those dumb users who can't freakin' learn some easy (for you techies) PowerShell scripting skills to maintain their boxes properly. After all we hired people to maintain our Windows boxes, aren't we?
quote:
do cruise control or leather seats or xenon headlamps can influence people to buy the more expensive model? MOST of them don't
I agree with you that statistically people tend to buy cheaper worse quality products most of the time, but my point was that if you call people buying expensive high quality things idiots - you must be a very dumb idiot yourself.
quote:
car manufacturers will not sell diesel cars if there are no diesel stations in the market they want to sell
Okay, another example - what if the diesel fuel prices went too hight lately? The buyer then should know internals of his car, now shouldn't he? To avoid buying a car that consumes double of the projected monthly car maintenance budget.

To fsardis:
quote:
First of all you do not buy any kind of just that will break after 6 months.
Reliability is high on the list, but price is even higher. You can't measure reliability immediately, but lower price is extremely tempting for a corporate IT. Hence the tendency to buy junk in quantities. Because it's so cheap that buying higher quality stuff looks really scary for an IT manager. What will he tell his boss? That he THOUGHT the more expensive computers must be more reliable? Well, the boss will tell him that he (boss) also THOUGHT that another manager will be also more reliable and cheaper for the company, so here's your pink slip and good luck.

On the other hand Apple does not have special cheapo brands for enterprises, so... there's no choice for you guys, only the PC. You could potentially buy some Mac hardware and save some money in the long run because of the less virii and problems, but your boss will fire you immediately because of "overspending", you know ;-) And then there's a lot of enterprise software that's Windows only, hence buying Macs for this stuff looks even less attractive, 'cause you won't get all the benefits of the Apple ecosystem in this case.
quote:
what is superior in having everything enclosed in a monitor with no user upgradeable parts
Much fewer cables, compact size, silence, top notch screen in 24" model, good looks, speedy hardware that's much faster than vast marority of PCs out there. All in one slick package, no fuss no trouble no virii, fire and forget. What doctor ordered for an average home user.
quote:
how I upgrade the monitor on an iMac
Why do you want to upgrade your monitor in first place? High quality 24" will serve you for many many years as your primary computer monitor. Considering that it's way better quality wise compared to majority of cheapo PC monitors out there - there will be no need to upgrade it for at least 5 years if not more.
quote:
how I am supposed to get 5.1 sound out of them
Use optical Toslink cable, dumbo :)) Here, for people like you who can't use Google: http://forums.macnn.com/58/imac-emac-and-mac-mini/...
quote:
it only has a stereo jack output
That's because you're a dumbo PC zealot who never heard of optical audio outputs :)))
quote:
2 USB ports
"Total of five USB 2.0 ports: three ports on computer, two ports on keyboard" <- did you read these iMac tech specs, you braindead PC fanatic? There are FIVE USB ports total, NOT TWO!!!
quote:
if the whole kit maintained the price point but went for a tower form with more USB ports and more upgrade options do you think it would not sell better?
But would it be as profitable as iMac? Nope. That's why Apple sells high-margin machines and leaves cheapo machines to others like Dell.
quote:
Price alone does not mean much but price/performance does and Apple fails
Price/performance is not the only metric buyers look at, this is why Apple still growing its market share and MS is shrinking. Machines with worse price/performance ratio (Macs) sell better and better compared to faster and cheaper machines (PCs), isn't that contradicting your point that ONLY price/performance matters when buying a computer?
quote:
in the PC market we do not need to splash the cash for a workstation to get hardware upgrade ability or build our own from scratch
Only techies need an ability to do upgrades every month or assemble from scratch. Hence it's a niche market and Apple is not worried about it since there's no profit in there.
quote:
And why do sites like MacFixIt exist you idiot?
Because even though Macs get less problems than PCs, they still get some problems, like any other mass produced complex machines.
quote:
http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=ma...
This one is about Mac fanatics, but not about normal Mac users, who are a vast majority. I know Mac fanatics are a vocal bunch but there are not as many of them as you think.


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