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Survey among professionals, students puts Apple brand as most impactful on their lives, Microsoft wins most in need of revamp

There has been a resurgence in the influence that brands, particularly those of tech companies, hold over people of late.  First, a major study revealed that Mac use caused what researchers labeled as a "snob effect".  Further research indicated exposure to the Apple logo could subliminally increase creativity and otherwise influence the viewer's thorough process.

Now new research by the online magazine Brandchannel reveals intriguing insight into how the consumer elite worldwide -- professionals and students -- view various companies.  Over 2,000 people were surveyed and among the companies Apple did the best, placing first in all six categories of appeal, including the most inspiring company and the company users can't live without. 

Microsoft was voted as the company people most wanted to argue with.  Furthermore, it was also voted the company most in need of a revamp.  Interestingly the USA national brand came in second in voting of a brand which most needed a revamp.

Brandchannel editor Jim Thompson states, "Apple has clearly captured the hearts and minds by leading across most categories. Others, such as the USA nation brand, which ranks highly as most in need of a rebrand, requires help according to our readers."

The study declined to examine brand value, often labeled a pseudo-science, which revolves around a theoretical determination of how much a brand is worth.  In brand value studies, Coca-Cola's Coke typically comes in first.

Most respondents in the survey did not think there was such a thing as a "green brand".  The survey indicates that many of the large company's efforts to establish an environmentally friendly image have largely resulted in failure. 

Among the praise lavished on Apple, one anonymous participant stated that there was "never a dull moment" from the company and that they keep "reinventing itself all along and providing, over and over again, a new perspective on what we thought was carved in stone."

Another unnamed participant stated that Microsoft had "gone from innovative and bold to stodgy and follower."

Following close behind Apple were Starbucks, Google, Nike, and Coca-Cola.  Most of these same brands, along with Apple at top, were selected as the brand responders would most "like to sit next to at a dinner party", though Starbucks received the boot in this category.

The responders came from over 107 countries and the survey occurred between February 24 and March 9.

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Gotta love statistics...
RE: Gotta love statistics...
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 3/31/2008 8:29:13 PM , Rating: 3
True. Regular end users tend to like the fancy Apple OSX, no doubt there. However when it comes right down to it, the bottom line is that Windows is a far more conductive and productive business platform. We've got about 20 Mac's at work right now for a few graphics design guys in our PR department that were raised on Mac. Even though Windows can do everything Mac can, it's a psychological safety blanket to be on a "Mac" for them. No big deal, but as these people are being fired or retire, their replacements seem to be more receptive to Windows. ;)


RE: Gotta love statistics...
By therealnickdanger on 3/31/2008 10:50:15 PM , Rating: 5
A good friend of mine owned Windows PCs her whole life, then she got a job at Target corporate. She started dressing "urban chic", got an iPod, then later got a MacBook. She can barely use the thing, but she's happy. All her coworkers have MacBooks and iPods too... coincidence?

To me, based upon the people I know that own Macs, it's more about keeping up appearances than functionality.


RE: Gotta love statistics...
By headbox on 4/1/2008 1:03:40 AM , Rating: 1
Sure, wannabe yuppy Mac users can be annoying. But is being a Microsoft fanboi any better?


RE: Gotta love statistics...
By StevoLincolnite on 4/1/2008 1:38:42 AM , Rating: 2
Yes because Windows has more usability than a Mac.
(Gaming is a big plus, Hardware compatibility is another, Emulation of other systems)


RE: Gotta love statistics...
By Pirks on 4/1/08, Rating: -1
RE: Gotta love statistics...
By ImSpartacus on 4/1/2008 6:30:15 AM , Rating: 2
Do you want me to price out a <$900 PC with 4GB of RAM, a Penryn, and an 8800GT? Throw in an OS and you're barely over one grand.

Then you can do so much more with that PC than you ever could with a game console. You can upgrade the PC, and then the infinite amount of other things you can do on there.


RE: Gotta love statistics...
By Pirks on 4/1/08, Rating: -1
RE: Gotta love statistics...
By borismkv on 4/1/2008 11:52:25 AM , Rating: 2
Look ma! A fanboy! For what you're going to pay for your Mac (with it's horribly underpowered/overpriced hardware and shiny factor) plus the XBox 360/PS3/Wii, and a TV/sound system to improve the experience, I can build a PC where I can do *everything* including watching TV. And for the most part, all the Console games on the market are FPSes, which I can't stand to play on a console because the controls are always much much slower than a Mouse and a Keyboard.

And Windows on a Mac. BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA! Oh that always makes me laugh. Windows on a Mac is about as stable as a table built with legs of Jello. And you have to literally spend 3000 dollars on a Mac to get anywhere close to the hardware I can toss into a $1000 PC. Get over yourself. The only thing your Mac is good for is giving you the illusion of self-superiority because your entire self worth is build around feeling like you're better than everyone else. Funny thing is, you're not.


RE: Gotta love statistics...
By Pirks on 4/1/08, Rating: -1
RE: Gotta love statistics...
By StevoLincolnite on 4/1/2008 4:11:10 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Yeah, PC is universal but it's too complex for most people. Macs are simple, less universal devices, but they win users precisely because of this simplicity. Not many average people liking PC mouse/keyboard games, but a lot of them loving to sit on a couch with a gamepad and enjoying some 3D beauty of Uncharted on PS3 or something, which you PC guys will never get. Crysis is being ported to consoles, so console/Mac crowd will play it, but you PC people can forget about Uncharted and The Darkness, this great stuff in not made for you, unfortunately.


Yes the PC is universal, and no it isn't to complex for most people, I got my granny up and running on a Pentium 3 with Windows XP playing Puzzle games (Popcap and Gamehouse)

And Crysis is not being ported to consoles, the "Engine" is being ported to consoles, not the actual game, most people fail to realize this point, and Crytek have said the same thing that Crysis will never been on consoles.
So it seems Crysis isn't made for you, nor is 30 odd years of PC gaming.

quote:
What a dumb fanatic you are :))) You seriously think you can assemble your own $1000 PC that can be as good as $3000 Mac Pro??? BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA!


The great thing about the PC is user customization of the hardware, If you shop smart enough, or buy the parts second hand from a flea market, you could build a $1000 dollar PC that will out-perform the Mac Pro, thats one of the PC's highlights.

And did I forget PC's have more upgrade options than a Mac?
And they are cheaper as well?

quote:
Tell that fanatical crap to a guy who haven't just spent several hour fighting braindead moronic Vista UAC and Windows Defender. I've got enough of your cheapo PC/Vista experience, thank you, so I'm gonna pass on your stupid zealot lies.


Those features can be disabled, thus if you are having issues with it, it's your own fault, there are other choices in the PC market other than Windows Vista, like:

- Linux.
- Windows XP
- Windows 98 Modded with XP like compatability.
- Windows Vista
- Windows 2000
- The list goes on...

Hows about, you don't like any of the above alternatives, you could always make your own based on the Linux operating system, Try doing that to a Mac OS.


RE: Gotta love statistics...
By Pirks on 4/1/08, Rating: -1
RE: Gotta love statistics...
By borismkv on 4/1/2008 6:26:48 PM , Rating: 3
"
quote:
Since when inferior hardware was more expensive? Of course PCs are cheaper when their hardware is worse.


Prove it. I can prove the opposite. It fact, many of the components used in Apple's computers are from budget manufacturers. The motherboard are Intel. The exact same as you can buy for a PC. The memory is Low-mid quality. The Hard-drives have historically come from budget companies like Maxtor and Quantum. Apple was recently sued for the quality of their displays, which were incapable of actually displaying the number of colors they advertised. I've heard many Apple people admit that the quality of Apple's monitors are equivalent to Dell's high-end monitors. Dell's High-end is basically the middle of the road when it comes to quality.

quote:
Why would anyone want to do that with a consumer oriented OS? Consumer OS like Mac OS was not designed for the end users to tinker with. It's there to just work out of the box with as small maintenance as possible.


And you can only do so much with it right out of the box without having to do a butt load of research. You cannot easily run a business with a Mac, since all major Accounting software is designed for PCs, and the Mac versions of these software suites are horribly crippled to comply with Apple's third party software requirements. The Mac is designed for the *less* than average consumer who uses their computer to surf the web, maybe listen to music, and *maybe* do some word processing. The average consumer uses their computer for much more than that. Home Accounting, Photo management, simple gaming (name one person that has never wasted time with Solitaire on their computer), and many other things. The "average consumer" as you put it cannot possibly switch to an Apple because, quite simply, they won't know how to get it to do what they want. The average consumer does not have the time or interest to learn a new operating system. The average consumer does not have the money to find someone to figure out how to get their highly important files from their current PC to their new Mac. So the *average* consumer will probably never accept the Mac until it becomes even *more* like Windows. As I mentioned earlier, the vast majority of new Mac buyers actually bought it because they liked the way they looked, and then decided to install Windows on them. Every Mac with Windows on it is a HUGE point in my fanatical side of the scoreboard.

Oh...and RO*T*FLMAO?!?!?! Noob.


RE: Gotta love statistics...
By Pirks on 4/1/08, Rating: 0
RE: Gotta love statistics...
By borismkv on 4/1/2008 11:16:31 PM , Rating: 2
Dude...you're getting hysterical. Calm down. You're only proving yourself more stupid. Go get yourself a triple mocha latte or whatever the hell you spend 50 dollars on every morning, take a few prozac, snuggle up in your 500 dollar turtle neck sweater and stop trying to convince actual hardware people that your "My first computer" garbage is worth anything. And Apple's getting market share! OMG! They have a whole 14% of the US market! Wow. That's amazing. And that's just laptops. Desktops they're at...what...7%? 8? Pah. It'll take Apple about 20 years to start making even a remote dent in the PC market. Grow up.


RE: Gotta love statistics...
By Pirks on 4/2/08, Rating: 0
RE: Gotta love statistics...
By StevoLincolnite on 4/2/2008 1:05:32 AM , Rating: 2
Why on earth would you pay that much for a CPU, and only have barely an acceptable gaming card for that price? I don't get it, get something like the 8800GT or a 3870 and whack in a Q6600 and you are all set, much better price and much better performance for things that a mac cannot do - Play Crysis.


RE: Gotta love statistics...
By Pirks on 4/2/08, Rating: 0
RE: Gotta love statistics...
By Pirks on 4/1/08, Rating: 0
RE: Gotta love statistics...
By borismkv on 4/1/2008 11:04:13 PM , Rating: 2
Aaaaand you just proved you can't read. I quoted your statement that a 1000 dollar PC would have parts there were inferior to a comparable Mac. To which I responded stating manufacturers of Apple hardware. None of which are considered high end in any way, thus shooting down your "Macs have higher quality parts" BS. Congratulations. You're continuing to prove your complete stupidity.

And I can most certainly build a PC for 1000 dollars that beats the living bloody hell out of the slowest Mac pro on the market (The one with only one quad core Xeon...the one that costs me about 300 dollars to get). And I can even configure that computer, whose base price is about 2500 dollars, to cost 3000 dollars by doubling the RAM...for 500 bucks. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! What a freakin rip off.

Go back to school, quit living off mom and dad's money, get a real job, and quit trying to prove that you're better than everyone else, cause frankly, you're just proving you're a moron at this point.


RE: Gotta love statistics...
By Pirks on 4/2/2008 2:13:59 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
thus shooting down your "Macs have higher quality parts"
That's impossible to shut down, just look at Mac hardware - ethernet is the best, always 1 gigabit, there's always latest bluetooth 2.0 in there, the wireless is always the best, it's 802.11n, the CPUs are the top of the crop from intel 45nm C2D line, up to 3.2 GHz quad-core Xeons, HDDs are top of the crop 15000 RPM ones, memory is top of the line 800 MHz DDR2 ECC, video cards are up to NVIDIA Quadro FX 5600 1.5GB Stereo 3D, and all the rest is top of the crop - fiberoptics backlit keyboards, LED backlit LCDs and so on. You can't even DREAM about this kind of stuff jerking off your cheapo $1000 dustbox, haha. Just get over it man, there are people that can afford quality stuff, and you just can't. So what? Just admit it and keep going, why are you so reserved and nervous about it? ;-)
quote:
I can most certainly build a PC for 1000 dollars that beats the living bloody hell out of the slowest Mac pro on the market
Oh yeah? Oh really??!! And you can easily stick a couple of 3.2 GHz 45nm quad cores in there to make it EIGHT PROCESSOR machine like you can do with Mac Pro? And you can stick 32 GB of DDR2-800 ECC RAM in there just like you can do with Mac Pro? Come ooon! Cut this crap already!! Please stop it, I'm dying from laugh here :))))

The little $1000 POS box that "could"... ahahahaahhaaahahaaa... :))) Great, thanks, it was a good one

What's up next in your performance, my lovely Wintel clown? ;-) I like your jokes, keep it going!


RE: Gotta love statistics...
By StevoLincolnite on 4/1/08, Rating: 0
RE: Gotta love statistics...
By Pirks on 4/2/08, Rating: 0
RE: Gotta love statistics...
By jlips6 on 4/2/2008 7:56:44 PM , Rating: 2
if we wanted the parts you talk about any pc user could order them without the apple mark-up. That's the argument you're ineffectively trying to combat. So the high end and elite parts of your mac are also PC parts, that we can get without the apple mark-up. And while it is an indicator, price alone does not determine the actual effectiveness of a part, or the computer as a whole.

I recall you using ineffective car analogy's before, do you?
Don't use them again. They don't work well for you.


RE: Gotta love statistics...
By Pirks on 4/2/2008 11:34:37 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
any pc user could order them without the apple mark-up
What "apple mark-up"? There is no such thing as Apple mark-up. Try to assemble an exact clone of the Mac Pro, add retail Mac OS X to it and you get the same price as Apple's.


RE: Gotta love statistics...
By jlips6 on 4/3/2008 11:36:58 AM , Rating: 2
I don't need the apple OS. I can save $150 just by not buying a operating system I don't want or need and getting ubuntu for free. And if you look at many of the specs on macintosh products, you will find signifigant differences between the price of the computer, and the price of similarly configured alternative brands. Want some figures? Or will you go on a rant on how that's legitimized by apple's "superior products?"


RE: Gotta love statistics...
By Pirks on 4/3/2008 5:06:01 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Want some figures?
How about comparing octo-core Dell Precision versus similarly configured Mac Pro? Octo-core means eight processor cores. Two quad-core Xeons, to be precise.


RE: Gotta love statistics...
By jlips6 on 4/3/2008 10:19:05 PM , Rating: 2
How about I don't compare what you want me to compare it to so you can win this stupid argument, or how about I compare it to the best option, and give an actual answer instead of your in-my-head fantasy?

These are the computers at their starting prices.

Mac pro.
2 4core 2.8GHz intel xeon processors. 12 mb cache
2GB RAM at 800 MHz bus speed with 4-dimms
1 320 GB 7200 rpms hard drive with 3GB ATA
Dual link ATI radeon HD 2600 256mb. (512mb total)
No Screen
No Wireless card
Apple mighty mouse
Apple keyboard
No software
No protection plan
total price: $2799.00

Now for the dell

XPS 720 H2C
2 intel quad cores, 3.67GHz each. 8mb cache
2GB RAM at 1066 MHz bus speed with 2-dimms
Dual nVidia Geforce 8800 512 MB. (1 GB total.)
500 GB 7200 RPM's hard drive 3GB/sec Sata 16mb cache
No screen
unknown wireless card (most likely not included.)
Dell keyboard
Dell optical mouse
15 months trend micro security
microsoft works 9
1 year in home warranty. Parts + labor. 24/7 call number. ( I probably shouldn't mention the phone number though. It admittedly sucks.)
3GB online backup for 1 year
total price: $2949.00

Price difference is exactly $150
What do you get for the extra $150?
better processors. Better ram. Better graphics cards. Better hard drive. Better warranty. (It has a warranty.) More included software (microsoft works.) 3GB of online backup storage for a year.

If I actually needed all this power I would take the dell.


RE: Gotta love statistics...
By Pirks on 4/4/2008 2:56:47 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
XPS 720 H2C 2 intel quad cores, 3.67GHz each. 8mb cache
TWO intel quad cores??? There's just ONE quad core CPU in that machine!

I caught ya lying again fanboy, now whatcha gonna do next, huh? ;-)

They try to compare 4 core dell crap with 8 core mac pro... jeez you zealots are so stupid... if you stopped lying all the time in your posts it'd be so much more interesting to talk to ya guys


RE: Gotta love statistics...
By jlips6 on 4/4/2008 5:02:40 PM , Rating: 2
lying fanboy eh?

wrong on two parts.

1. My techie friend who has a machine with two quad cores can confirm what you are calling fiction, as fact. You know didly squat.

2. Want to know all the OS's that run in my houshold?
Windows vista
Windows 2000
Ubuntu
Osx lepord.
Osx tiger
2 versions of mac OS 9.4
I use all of these OS's, although not all with the same frequency.
Please pirks, why don't you just shut up.


RE: Gotta love statistics...
By Pirks on 4/4/2008 6:18:07 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
My techie friend who has a machine with two quad cores can confirm what you are calling fiction, as fact. You know didly squat
Alright, let's exchange solid arguments then. Here's a creenshot that proves your Dell XPS 720 H2C has only ONE quad-core CPU: http://download.yousendit.com/638025B14671577B the file is called dell_xps.png on that page, its size is 170 kilobytes, everyone can download it and see that I'm telling the truth, and you're lying.

This is the screenshot that I just made fron the dell.com site, and it clearly shows that this Dell XPS 720 H2C machine has only ONE quad-core CPU factory overclocked to 3.67 GHz.

Now do YOU have ANYTHING to prove the opposite? I have at least this MATERIAL proof, care to give me yours?

I'm sorry, but I considered you a liar because of the stuff that dell.com tells me. Dell tells me this machine has just one CPU, how can you prove that Dell is LYING and you are telling the truth?

I'm waiting for a decent proof, anything besides just your bare words.

I proved my argument, now it's your turn.


RE: Gotta love statistics...
By jlips6 on 4/4/2008 6:53:25 PM , Rating: 2
I don't know why you had to send a screenshot.
http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx...
here's a link if you don't want to download a photoshop file. Why photoshop? I don't know.

All that aside, It appears you were right. After a confirmation with my friend, it would seem that he has done some modifications to his computer. I probably should have asked him beforehand. My bad. :p He has a HP mt9000t.

who would've thought that you would be right for once? I guess that makes us 1 and 3 on this forum.


RE: Gotta love statistics...
By Pirks on 4/4/2008 9:28:27 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
who would've thought that you would be right for once?
Hehe :) I just know the stuff I'm talking about since I'm doing work on both Windows and Mac OS X platforms, and I have a bunch of people owning a lot of Apple hardware around me (although I own only Dell stuff, hehe :)

Why people wanna lie so much when they start bashing Apple? I dunno, I guess they just want Apple stuff so much subconsciously that they just can't stop swearing and spewing lies around. Oh well.

I don't even have to lie like many stupid Windows zealots here if I wanna bash Apple, it's actually really easy to bash them without even a hint of lies and fanboyism, but most Wintel morons here are too dumb to realize that ;-)


RE: Gotta love statistics...
By jlips6 on 4/4/2008 10:48:00 PM , Rating: 2
there is a difference between lies and misinformation.
My conversation with my buddy took place over AIM. It went somewhat like this:
"Hey qq. (not real name but close enough)So your new computer has a quad core? What are you going to use 4 core's for?"
"8 cores. My core 2 quad is actually 2 quad core processors."
"For real? That's new to me."
"Me too. how's your sister?"

So, in order to rectify my mistake, (it was my fault for not researching my info enough.) I have put together a list of parts for a PC that will run xbuntu with the same (apr.) specs.

2 xeon processors 3.2 GHz,$1056 http://www.nextag.com/HP-Server-Accessori-Intel-52...

Corsair dominator ram. 2GB at 1066. $89.00 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N8...

MSI NX8800GT 512Mb Geforce graphics card. $209.99
http://www.nextag.com/Msi-NX8800GT512MOC-GeForce-8...

Creative Sound Blaster SB0570. $29.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N8...

700 watt GamexStream power supply. $109.99
http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/productdetail.a...

X2 Seagate Barracuda hard drive. 250GB at 72,000 rpms each. $129.98
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N8...

APEVIA X-JUPITER-JR S-Type X-JPJST-BK Black SECC Steel Chassis ATX Mid Tower Computer Case. $74.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N8...

Liteon 20x optical drive. $23.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N8...

Microsoft mouse + keyboard $21.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N8...

motherboard S5000PAL server board. $628.49
http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B000H5J47I?...

operating system: xbuntu $0.00 (best version of linux for a compy this powerful.)

Total price: $2374.41

total specs:
2 xeon 3.2GHz processors with 12mb cache
2GB ram at 1066 mhz
512mb Graphics card
500GB of storage at 7,200 rpms.
No screen
No additional software
keyboard
mouse
warranty's on some individual parts, not entire system.

I have included links for every individual site I got these parts from. Incidentally, if you ever need parts in the future, nextag is much cheaper than newegg, but not as easy to browse. I use a combination of the two.

It's much cheaper, and the processors actually run at 3.2GHz instead of 2.8 GHz per core, as opposed to the mac pro.
:)


RE: Gotta love statistics...
By Pirks on 4/5/08, Rating: 0
RE: Gotta love statistics...
By StevoLincolnite on 4/5/2008 5:10:48 PM , Rating: 2
Dude, give it a rest, no one cares about you're love affair with apple's over priced products, and lack of choices in hardware configurations, or even the decent choices of high-end 3D accelerators. (What was that? Several thousand dollar computer with ONLY a Radeon 2600XT or Geforce 8800GT? Where is SLI, and Crossfire, Or the 9800GX2 or even the 3870X2?) Get over it, we don't care.


RE: Gotta love statistics...
By Pirks on 4/5/2008 7:06:54 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
no one cares about your love affair with apple's over priced products
No one cares about stupid liars like jlips6 above who TWICE tried to sell me his absolutely stinky fanatical crap about Mac Pro being "overpriced" because jlips6 has absolutely NO IDEA about computer hardware - first he tries to sell me his bullcrap about Dell XPS 720 H2C which has TWICE LESS processor cores compared to Mac Pro for the same price, second attempt was trying to tell me THAT OLD MUSEUM CRAP Pentium 4 Netburst based Xeon from 2004 has ANYTHING to do with modern Xeons in Mac Pro.

I'm just teaching you some lessons, lamers. You scream in pain and try to wiggle around and escape my HARD FACTS, and I am methodically squash your lies because, unlike you, I know hardware specs and prices.
quote:
Get over it, we don't care.
Doh. You're saying this as if someone cares about dying PC gaming industry with studios moving to consoles in droves these days. Masturbate on your overpriced 3D SLI GTX XXX accelerators, while I will enjoy actual GAMES on Xbox 360 and Wii. To each his own. You losers want the latest fad in 3D hardware that nVidia marketing department is zombifying you with, and I don't give a damn about overpriced pieces of green logo'd plastic and silicon, I want my freakin GAMES, and all these great titles like The Darkness, Star Wars: The Force Unleashed, Uncharted, and many many others are coming ON CONSOLES, not on PC :P

Good luck with masturbating over your overpriced nVidia hardware, I'm way past this age, my dear fanatic teenagers :P


RE: Gotta love statistics...
By StevoLincolnite on 4/5/2008 7:55:56 PM , Rating: 2
Dude, Get over it, I don't care and start acting more mature and grown.

And just for you're information the Xeon (The ones based on the P6 Architecture, thus the Core 2 series) Does actually share some common ground with the Pentium 4 Processors.

They are:
1) The Front side bus technology.
2) The Advanced Tree Prediction.
3) 64 bit extensions.
4) Hyper Threading on some processors.
5) The implementation of SSE, SSE2, MMX etc.

All in all it's still the P6 architecture made almost 15 years ago.

So obviously you have no idea, really I don't care about the Mac's or you're delusional ideas that the PC is a dead platform and all that other jizz jazz you proclaim about, that everyone has been proclaiming about for the last 15 or so years with each new generation of Mac and consoles.

SO GET OVER IT!

Also some rules to replying to this message that will hopefully not make you look like an moron:

1) Quote paragraphs, not one liners where you can turn my story around, without actually displaying anything factual.

2) Car terminology's.

3) You're incompetents.

4) Discrimination.

5) Laughing like a School girl in a doll house.


RE: Gotta love statistics...
By Pirks on 4/5/2008 9:05:11 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
I don't care and start acting more mature
I'm more interested in a third attempt of jlips6 to lie to me about overpriced Apple hardware, than in your attempts to tell me something incomprehensible about P6 or whatever. So I'm waiting to see how jlips6 is going to continue to wiggle and jiggle around trying to find yet another excuse for his fanatical buddies to call Apple hardware "overpriced". I put carefully prepared trap here, and jlips6 has fallen into it twice already, so please Stevo, don't make noises around here, you can frighten him away now :-) I just wanna see how he's gonna fall into my trap one more time, it'll be so much fun watching that :))) I told him once to act HONESTLY and compare ANALOGOUS things, i.e. Mac Pro vs Dell Precision in our case, but he definitely knows the prices pretty well and so he's very afraid to reveal the truth here :)

With regards to your games stuff - I know there are much more interesting games on consoles these days so I don't really see any point in investing any money in 3D accelerators instead of console. Hence Mac wins because coupled with console it gives you much better experience (although for a slightly higher price if you compare it with absolutely crapocheapo low end PC)


By StevoLincolnite on 4/6/2008 6:06:00 PM , Rating: 2
There are no games on console that "Attracts me" the games I am waiting for are StarCraft and Spore, although Spore will be released on all platforms, it will have the graphical superiority on the PC.


RE: Gotta love statistics...
By jlips6 on 4/6/2008 10:59:13 PM , Rating: 2
here's a 3rd attempt. see if you can spot the lie. Take out the as you say, museum processors, add these.
http://www.nextag.com/Intel-QUAD-CORE-XEON-5727120...

price: $3128.29
mac equivelant: $3599.00

...
If you buy a computer from a company then it will be more expenxive than if you build it on your own. Dell, Mac, HP, there are no exceptions, unless you talk about laptops, which are more difficult to find parts for (Chassis, screen). Finding the right xeon processor was a bitch.


RE: Gotta love statistics...
By Pirks on 4/7/08, Rating: 0
RE: Gotta love statistics...
By jlips6 on 4/11/2008 10:28:19 PM , Rating: 1
well well well. I come back from a 4-day vacation in canada and what do I find when I come back? Bullshit, lies, and misdirection. Gonna take awhile to straighten all your shit out pirks.

And on a side note, why aren't you telling me to grow up stevo? It's only fair.

and FYI pirks, I am not trying to replicate a mac pro, I am trying to create a machine with equal or greater operational power for less than a comparable mac pro. (or about equal if the components are superior enough. give or take $100)

#1. about the hard drives. You are fantastic at skipping over details that don't suit you. If you actually bothered to look at the link, you would see the hard drive is half the price I put there. You would also notice that the specifications for the end were different from the individual hard drive. I wonder why this is... oh right, because there are 2 hard drives. Duh. that's 500GB at 7200 RPM's. That makes it better than your 320 GB. I wonder why you didn't mention that? </sarcasm>

#2 the ram. Pirks, you make me sad with your inadequate knowleadge. Why must I use your inferior, more expensive ram again? If you think that "fully buffered" actually means anything when you are inserting less than 8 sticks then think again. Fully buffered ram allows for more ram to be inserted at the cost of CAS latency. In other words, if you use it in small amounts, it will be inefficient and expensive. My ram has a better FSB, cost, and will work fine if I insert it at these specifications every other row. at high specs (using all 16 slots) I can get 32GB of FB-DIMM RAM for half the price they charge you.
http://www.provantage.com/kingston-kta-mp800k2-8g~... all in all, what are you thinking?

3: The chassis. Why should I use your chassis? Answer: I shouldn't. Apart from airflow and space, the only thing the chassis does is support your parts. Hell, If I took a couple of lucky charms boxes, some duct tape, an exacto knife, and ordered a couple of $20 fans, I could build a chassis to hold the parts. It wouldn't look good, but it wouldn't hinder my computer at all. I would also get some lucky charms. Does your chassis include lucky charms? No? Thought so.

4. Operating system. Pirks, have you ever used linux? It's an great operating system. Why do I have to use vista ultimate? Because you think that's the only comparable market equivelant to OSx 5.0? Bullshit.

5. power supply.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N8...
Oh. Look at that. a better power supply for $90 less. Huh. I wonder why you didn't go for the best deal? I had already included a power supply that was equivelant. Why do you have to throw it out and replace it with a more expensive one? Imagine my suprise.

6. Processors: Hey look pirks! the power magically dropped from 3GHz to 2.8GHz! Not that it matters. I can get a better deal from the 3GHz ones because the 2.8GHz processors are not as easily found. Not that it makes that much of a difference. Look at the results without the Pirks bullshit.

RESULTS:
(note, all superior parts are in bold.)
X2 2.8GHZ intel xeon quad core processors. $1440

2GB corsair dominator ram at 1066GHz. $89

MSI NX8800GT 512Mb Geforce graphics card. $209.99

Creative Sound Blaster SB0570. $29.99

Hiper 730 watt power supply $100

X2 Seagate Barracuda hard drive. 250GB at 72,000 rpms each. $129.98

Apevia Jupiter chassis. $75

Lite-on x20 optical drive $24

microsoft mouse + keyboard. $22

motherboard $628.49

Bluetooth + firewire $60

Total price: $2808.45
none of the pc parts are below the specs of the mac parts.

look, it's $9 more than the mac pro and all you get is a better hard drive, ram, and power supply. Oh wait! you said your version of the configured mac pro was $3000...

You know what pirks? if your still not satisfied, I can go back, get a fan or two (they cost a couple of bucks.) and then call my chassis superior because of enhanced airflow. You're just lucky I didn't bring out the lucky charms chassis argument for real. (not really.)


RE: Gotta love statistics...
By jlips6 on 4/12/2008 1:15:55 AM , Rating: 2
http://www.thenerds.net/KINGSTON_MEMORY.Kingston_V...
if you really want FB-DIMM RAM, have this X2
$122

FB-DIMM uses less pins on the motherboard because it uses serial instead of parralel connection. This supposedly increases speed and FSB because it can utilize multiple modules to increase it's FSB. So if I were to substitute the sticks in the Mac pro with this...
http://www.nextag.com/Kingston-ValueRAM-Memory-1-5...
X2 = $143
then the fsb would quadruple, making it far superior to the RAM that comes with the mac, not because of part specs, but because of multiple modules.
so if I am correct, and i substitute this for my corsair ram
that brings the price to $2862.45 on my Mac Pro equivelant, which is actually superior as opposed to your mac pro which you said was $3000.
If that $3000 was an error, you should fix it soon otherwise, enlighten me to how you got that figure.

However, it doesn't really matter at that point, because the FSB of the processor is only 1300, so that negates any higher FSB than 1300. Hence, the FSB doubling is essentially useless. So I can substitute in the cheaper FB-DIMM ram at $2841.45.

my sources
http://www.pcstats.com/articleview.cfm?articleID=1...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fully_Buffered_DIMM
http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/266


RE: Gotta love statistics...
By Pirks on 4/5/2008 9:18:11 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
And just for you're information the Xeon does actually share some common ground with the Pentium 4 Processors.
And just for your information, Stevo - jlips6 just tried to make equal two different processors - one with ONE core and the other with FOUR cores.

Are you even smart enough to undertsand that old single core Xeon is VERY different from the modern QUAD CORE Xeon?

Do you know numbers ONE and FOUR? DO YOU EVEN KNOW THESE NUMBERS ARE DIFFERENT?

I'm looking at you guys and more I talk to you the more I know you're just imbeciles or something.

'Cause if you are NOT imbecile you are NOT GOING TO TRY TO MAKE FOUR CORE XEON EQUAL TO ONE CORE XEON FORM THREE YEARS AGO!!!

Did you get that simple thing? Do you want me to explain in details WHY FOUR-CORE PROCESSOR IS VERY DIFFERENT FROM SINGLE-CORE ONE?


By StevoLincolnite on 4/6/2008 6:07:16 PM , Rating: 2
I don't care what someone tried to do to you, it's not my problem.

And you're missing my point on the whole thing, so there is no point in carrying it on, if you are to thick to realize.


RE: Gotta love statistics...
By jlips6 on 4/11/2008 10:30:22 PM , Rating: 2
dude, I think you are misunderstanding what we are trying to do here. We aren't trying to prove any points or anything. (or at least, I'm not.) We're just arguing for fun at this point. Don't mess it up for us.


RE: Gotta love statistics...
By jlips6 on 4/4/2008 5:09:13 PM , Rating: 2
and since the processors are made by the same company, and you are calling one crap I guess that means you think your xeon processors are crap too. Oh wait! the only different things about them is that the cache on the xeon is higher, and the speed on the quad is higher, as well as it's bus. Where does the difference that makes a quad core crap occur?


RE: Gotta love statistics...
By Pirks on 4/4/2008 6:32:17 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Where does the difference that makes a quad core crap occur?
The difference occurs when you try to compare 4 core Dell with 8 core Mac Pro. See my screenshot proof above.


RE: Gotta love statistics...
By jlips6 on 4/4/2008 6:55:40 PM , Rating: 2
the processors are the same. there is no 8-core processor, there are 2 4-core's.


RE: Gotta love statistics...
By nikon133 on 4/1/2008 4:37:12 PM , Rating: 1
Well, you can't play Crysis on consoles at all.

I did play it on AMD 64 X2 4200 with 8800GT and, while I had to settle for 1280*1200 (which is, coincidently, native resolution of my 19" screen) and DX9 high settings, it gave me great pleasure.

Which I would completely miss if relying exclusively on consoles for playing.

So your point is..?


RE: Gotta love statistics...
By therealnickdanger on 4/1/2008 8:30:01 AM , Rating: 1
Vista is a mess? Weird, I've been using it for over a year and haven't noticed...

quote:
Why would I need a cheap and fast PC if I have no comfort? What's the use for the hardware if the software is braindead dumb? Just look at goddamn stupid Vista, who wrote Vista's Windows Defender implementation? Who wrote UAC crap? These Microsoft idiots should be executed without a trial, or maybe thrown out on the street if I'm in a good mood...

Those are some comforting comments right there. You should definitely buy a Mac, then buy a Jetta and use it to drive to a psychiatrist (or a priest) and sort out your anger.


RE: Gotta love statistics...
By Pirks on 4/1/08, Rating: -1
RE: Gotta love statistics...
By jlips6 on 4/1/2008 11:27:40 AM , Rating: 2
I use vista, and it never asks me that crap. Maybe if you are as knowleadgable about vista as you sound, you could just turn that function off. It takes like 30 seconds. Come on, get a real argument.


RE: Gotta love statistics...
By Pirks on 4/1/08, Rating: -1
RE: Gotta love statistics...
By borismkv on 4/1/2008 12:22:50 PM , Rating: 2
"why the heck Microsoft puts some junk functionality in Vista that users should bother to turn off to get work done?"

And Apple doesn't do this? Come on, you have to put in your password every time you install anything. The reason Microsoft put it in there was to increase security. Computer security is, quite simply, a matter of managing accessibility, the more secure a computer is, the less accessible it is. The only reason Apples are secure is because you can't dig into the OS to do anything. People turn off UAC because Microsoft made a mistake and made it far too Zealous. But they also put in an option to turn off that level of security. Something Apple would never do in a million years, because Apple doesn't want you to realize just how unstable their OS is. Because if you could do everything I do on my PC with your Mac, it would crash about two or three times a day. As for my PC, it hasn't crashed in about...Hell. I haven't had a crash in about a month or so. And I use my computer about 10 hours a day.


RE: Gotta love statistics...
By Pirks on 4/1/08, Rating: -1
RE: Gotta love statistics...
By therealnickdanger on 4/1/2008 4:01:01 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
an app like RivaTuner that requires admin rights,

LOL

You're a funny guy. I've been using Vista since the 2006 Beta WITH RivaTuner for strapping drivers, over-clocking, and system monitoring. I haven't disabled UAC and it never popped up for me. You must have done something wrong. It's OK to admit you're wrong, you know. You'll actually get MORE respect around here.

If, for some reason, I used an application daily that prompted the UAC for every operation (like one you claim exists), then I would just turn UAC off and life would move forward as normal as if I were using XP. However, I haven't had any reason to turn it off in any of the audio/video/photo editing suites I use; P2P apps, hacked drivers, games, drafting, modeling, etc. I'll help you configure your Vista install if you want, it's clear you don't know how to do it.


RE: Gotta love statistics...
By Pirks on 4/1/2008 8:02:40 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
You're a funny guy
Not only me! Read this and educate yourself please: http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=251877

I wish I could admit I'm wrong, but so far I could not find any way to prove me wrong, and I tried hard. You just try to install latest RivaTuner in Vista, and put it in autostart - and you get these annoying Windows Defender popups every time you boot Vista and log into your account there.

The fact that you disabled Windows Defender does not change anything, 'cause I don't want to disable it, I want only to configure it. I want it to work but not in a such annoying and obtrusive way it works now. But it's impossible to do it! Here's a proof: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Defender

"Windows Defender in Windows Vista automatically blocks all startup items that require administrator privileges to run. There is no known easy way to automatically unblock these items. This automatic blocking is related to the UAC, and requires the user to manually run each of these startup items each time they log in."
quote:
I'll help you configure your Vista install if you want, it's clear you don't know how to do it
Nobody can help it. I've been asking this question about stupid non-configurable Windows Defender and nobody answered. They only say "disable it". But I do not want to disable it, I want it to keep working, I just want to configure it, to force it to ignore just this one single app I put in autostart.

Every Windows fanatic immediately shut up after getting this question from me, and you will follow the rest.

You're just like all of them, nothing interesting. No arguments and no substantial answers. Just babbling.


RE: Gotta love statistics...
By borismkv on 4/1/2008 4:25:16 PM , Rating: 2
I think it's hilarious that you're calling us Windows guys zealots when you're the one going absolute ape-snot over this. I *have* had to work with Vista. A lot. I'm a computer technician. I get paid to fix problems with Vista, XP, and even *gasp* OS X. I've worked in the IT Industry for 12 years. I've worked with a lot of computer techs. And you know what, the ones that knew the absolute least about computers were the ones that grew up on Macs. You're a very obvious example of this.

Here's what really makes me laugh about you. You keep calling us Wintel fanboys. You do realize that half of that is "Intel" which is now the hardware that runs Apples, right? The only reason Apples are getting popular is that they run on PC hardware. There is no hardware difference between your computer and mine. The only difference is the OS. And let's face it. The droves of people switching to Macs are also using them to run Windows.

As for innovation. Apple hasn't change the design of their laptops in about 6 years. They've only made modifications to their all-in-one desktop system for the past 10 years. The case for the Mac Pro has been the *exact same* since the G5. That's 5 years with the exact same design. And OS X has been around for longer than Windows XP. The only "Innovations" they've made have been small upgrades that mimic functions that have been around in XP for years. And let's not forget about OS X server. I've had to work with this OS for quite a while. It is *TERRIBLE*. I've never seen so many debilitating software bugs in my entire life. The last company I worked for is probably going to get sued into destruction because of the OS X server they installed for one company.

The only thing you're proving with your ranting and raving about Wintel Fanatics is that you're a delusional, self-important windbag who knows absolutely nothing about computers. You're not making anyone think that you're position is accurate. You've not given any more than anecdotal evidence to support your views. And what's worse, you've committed the cardinal sin of debate. You lost your temper and started calling people names. Good job.


RE: Gotta love statistics...
By Pirks on 4/1/2008 8:38:35 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
You do realize that half of that is "Intel" which is now the hardware that runs Apples, right?
Learn to understand the difference between Intel and Wintel.
quote:
The droves of people switching to Macs are also using them to run Windows
And the web usage/marketshare graphs tell the opposite: the Mac market share slowly grows -> http://marketshare.hitslink.com/report.aspx?qprid=... - congrats Mr. Microsloth Fanboy, your attempt at pushing lies easily stopped in its tracks by market share reports. Spread your lies to other gullible fanatics like you who are not smart enough to look at web usage/marketshare graphs.
quote:
Apple hasn't change the design of their laptops in about 6 years
Why would they change it if they are the best in laptop design? There were no really successful attempts to dethrone their flagship notebook for example - MacBook Pro 17", it still remains the thinnest lightest most ergonomical 17" notebook in history, why should Apple bother with redesign of their classic when nobody can even touch it? I think they do the right thing. Do not touch the king of the notebooks since it's perfect as it is. It's only dells of the world who have to constantly change their designs in futile attempts to make them to look and feel as gorgeous and FUNCTIONAL AND ERGONOMIC as MacBook Pro line.

Same is true for iMacs, why changing classic if nobody still can't touch it. Again, don't touch the king. Same is true for Mac Mini and Mac Pro as well, in fact for everything Mac that Apple does. Why change design if it is the best already? Just keep it best as it is now and introduce slow evolutional changes. They are 100% right following that route.

BTW your stupid lies about Apple notebooks not changing and such are really funny if you consider MacBook Air. You can't even imagine how idiotic your lies look in this context :))))) Hahahaaaa
quote:
they've made have been small upgrades that mimic functions that have been around in XP for years
Have you seen this interesting piece -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TaIUkwPybtM <- this will teach you a lesson, fanboy.
quote:
is probably going to get sued into destruction
That'll be peanuts compared to what MS will pay to defrauded consumers in the infamous "Vista Capable" conumer fraud case.
quote:
The only thing you're proving with your ranting and raving
Blah blah... I'm just making fun of you :P Don't you understand? I'm asking you tricky questions about Windows Defender or about $1000 PC stuff, and you idiots always fall into my trap, because you have no brains. You cannot compare newegg prices with Apple prices. You cannot realize simple things about Windows Defender, the simple things that are described not only in Wikipedia, but EVEN IN THE VISTA SYSTEM HELP REFERENCE ITSELF! If you were not so idiotic with your pathetic whininig and babbling, coupled with inability to answer my tricky test questions - I wouldn't spend so much time here, but you fanatics are soo funny :)) Thanks for a nice entertainment today!


RE: Gotta love statistics...
By borismkv on 4/2/2008 1:16:18 AM , Rating: 2
pppppfffpfppfpttt! BAAHAHAHAHAHA! 1% market share in a year. That's awesome. I was wrong. It'll take 43 years for Apple to break even. Yep. Sure is a good computer. Gimme a break, jackass. We PC guys won a huge victory when Apple switched to Intel and all of a sudden their computers were advertised as being 4 times faster. We won another victory when "our" OS started popping up on Macs all over the place. And your market share research garbage doesn't really show how many Macs have Windows installed on them. Of the hundred or so Macs I've worked on since Apple switched to Intel, about 90% of them had Windows on them.

Just for info, "Wintel" is the term most used by fanatical, uninformed, propaganda filled, backwards Apple fanboys to attempt to denigrate PC users. Much like people in gradeschool do when someone does something they don't like. It was a combination of Windows and Intel. Because the computers that Apple lovers hated was built on those two things. Well, now you've got all that PC hardware in your computers and it's all good. Because now they're actually comparable to PCs in performance. I bet the majority of technically minded Apple users who peruse this board are rolling their eyes out of their sockets every time you use that term. The fact that you're stupid enough to use it after the Apple/Intel deal just proves your own inability to "Get a clue."

But hey, we all know the truth about you. You're nothing more than an idiotic troll. Hell. I just have to look at your rating history to see that. So, I'm not gonna feed you anymore. Have a nice day.


RE: Gotta love statistics...
By Pirks on 4/2/2008 3:11:03 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
1% market share in a year
You zealots never learn that 1% in PREMIUM ELITE HIGH-PROFIT HARDWARE market is worth in money terms about 10% in your cheapo crapo budget-Dell-like-PC market.
quote:
And your market share research garbage doesn't really show
It shows how Mac OS X market share grows and this is more than enough to make fun of you :P I don't care much about Mac hardware, the OS is what matters the most. It's kicking fat ugly Windows ass and we consumers and PC guys indeed are going to benefit from that A LOT! This is the part where I completely agree with you.

And yeah, I already know what Wintel is, thank you. You just wasted your time typing that part :-)


RE: Gotta love statistics...
By jlips6 on 4/1/2008 4:56:08 PM , Rating: 1
if you hate it SO MUCH, go in to control panel, click user accounts, and there is a button that actually says: turn user account control on or off. Click on that. If you can't figure out what next to do, you need some real help.

Quote:
Because you never install the apps that require admin rights to launch and also put themselves in autostart in order to launch every time vista boots.

0_o
... What the hell are you talking about? You have no idea what I do or don't do on my computer (unless you are a lot more creepy than you appear.)and you should not assume that other people are plagued by problems you have caused by your own inadequate knowledge. I do install those applications, and they work fine, with no pop-ups.


RE: Gotta love statistics...
By Pirks on 4/1/2008 8:53:00 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
turn user account control on or off. Click on that
I do not want to turn UAC off completely. I just want to configure it to make it less annoying.
quote:
you should not assume that other people are plagued by problems you have caused by your own inadequate knowledge
I already posted a couple of links here, one from wikipedia, and the other from rivatuner forum, proving that the problem I encountered is a common one, not just mine. So I proved that your babbling is worthless, you have no arguments to support it, hence you are a fanatic and nothing more.

When you have serious arguments/links proving your experience - come back and we'll talk again.


RE: Gotta love statistics...
By jlips6 on 4/2/2008 7:26:58 PM , Rating: 2
lol, im a fanatic? :)
you also posted forums to rivatuner after i told you wikipedia could be edited. Fancy that. Oh, and by the way, if you have a 3rd party piece of software that is giving you problems, it's not the OS's fault.

So you want to configure UAC? Why didn't you say so earlier? Oh, and FYI, UAC stands for user account control, your problem is with windows defender, which is switched off when UAC is. So you don't want to edit UAC, you want to edit defender, which can probably be done with the windows defender button in the control panel. Never needed to do that myself frankly. I just say: if it's a hassle, don't use it. I know if something has the potential to be hazardous. Don't answer with some nonsense about wanting to NOT HAVE IT FREAKIN GIVE ME POPUPS EVERY TIME I OPEN RIVATUNER!! :( ROTFLMAO, MORE EXCESSIVE AND INCORRECT USES OF AIMTALK ALL IN CAPITALS WITH SMILY FACES THAT HAVE TOO MANY MOUTHS!!!!!

I don't need links to "prove my experience." I prove my knowledge with logical arguments that don't make people feel like they're drowning in a sea of capital letters and punctuation. And they use facts that aren't twisted, unaccurate, completely biased, or later changed to say "That's not what I was saying!"

Carefully read this over and think of a logical, uncapitalized response that will give you some sort of credibility and or an actual argument. When you do that, we may not give you so much flak. You had a good post at the very bottom of the forum. I know you can do it again. Please?


RE: Gotta love statistics...
By Pirks on 4/2/2008 9:18:09 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
which can probably be done with the windows defender button in the control panel. Never needed to do that myself frankly
I tried it and I know it's impossible to configure Windows Defender the way I want, so that it ignores just this one particular application in autostart.

The stupidity of MS UI designers who decided that it's okay for the user to press annoying "accept" button every time Vista boots is the reason I wanted to execute these bastards.

Stupid MS UI designers must be severely punished because they made a very annoying user interface which is impossible to configure. Read it again and try to understand: the user interface is very annoying and there is nothing the user can do about it, because stupid MS UI designers made Windows Defender inflexible and not configurable with regard to applications in autostart folder.

Did I make myself clear?

Do you have any additional questions about this problem?


RE: Gotta love statistics...
By jlips6 on 4/3/2008 11:42:38 AM , Rating: 2
Yeah, I got one. Why are You blaming microsoft software designers because of a problem with 3rd party software?


RE: Gotta love statistics...
By Pirks on 4/3/08, Rating: 0
RE: Gotta love statistics...
By jlips6 on 4/3/2008 10:26:12 PM , Rating: 2
wow. a 1st generation software program doesn't have every feature you want? Shocking.

And none of us will have to go through any of "that crap" to alter windows defender. We don't need it. We just click the off button. You didn't want to do that. Your call.


RE: Gotta love statistics...
By borismkv on 4/1/2008 12:16:41 PM , Rating: 5
"Wintel Fanatic"
Well, hey...better that then an Appltel fanatic. And the only reason you have problems with Vista is because you've been playing with Apple's "My First Operating System." I mean OSX. All you have to do is turn off UAC and that pop up will never bother you again. Maybe you should get a clue.


RE: Gotta love statistics...
By Pirks on 4/1/08, Rating: 0
RE: Gotta love statistics...
By therealnickdanger on 4/1/2008 4:12:33 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
introduce flexible and configurable security features

The very definition of "configurable" means that you can deactivate or activate features - which is exactly how Microsoft has built Vista's security (activate/deactivate UAC).
quote:
Just look at how Mac OS unobtrusive and friendly user interface is done.

Would it make you feel better if Microsoft worked a smiley face into the Windows logo?


RE: Gotta love statistics...
By borismkv on 4/1/2008 4:43:26 PM , Rating: 2
Maybe they should turn the BSoD into a big frowny face.


RE: Gotta love statistics...
By Pirks on 4/1/2008 9:33:48 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
Maybe they should turn the BSoD into a big frowny face
Or maybe they should check if you have been brainwashed too much. You may still have some grey matter left in your head, not all hope is lost yet ;)


RE: Gotta love statistics...
By Pirks on 4/1/2008 9:23:30 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
The very definition of "configurable" means that you can deactivate or activate features
Jesus. Can't you understand that "configurable" means that you can actually CONFIGURE features, not JUST DISABLE them?

Are there any people with brains here at all?

Sigh.
quote:
Would it make you feel better if Microsoft worked a smiley face into the Windows logo?
Anything, any logo/face/whatever you can imagine - JUST GIMME PEOPLE WITH BRAINS HERE!! I wanna talk to intelligent person, not to another solder of a Windows zealot army.


RE: Gotta love statistics...
By StevoLincolnite on 4/2/2008 1:01:33 AM , Rating: 2
Since when have we "Talked" - As far as I know this is all text based.

You call us mindless? SO far you have been a one man army, and this -IS- a Tech website, thus don't you think most people here would know what they are talking about? Which so far shows you're Macs are indeed inferior?

Seriously, We aren't the ones "yelling" (Which is based on the use of caps) Which generally shows you're not all that intelligent after all, because since when has yelling and screaming ever solved anything?

Honestly, I don't care about you're silly Macs, or iPods, I like Windows and Creative Zen, and to me there is no other product better, you may like the designs but to me they have a cheap plastic feel, and it has also been proven those who are Mac fanatics tend to be snobby and know it all's which you have proven rather well.


RE: Gotta love statistics...
By Pirks on 4/2/2008 3:37:14 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
don't you think most people here would know what they are talking about?
Have you noticed ANYONE really answering my questions about configuring UAC and Windows Defender to make them less annoying? No? Then where did all these so called "tech people" go, huh?

[yelling loudly]

Hellooo!! Tech people, where are thou? Why my simple technical questions about UAC and Windows Defender are so hard for you, tech people? Huh? Can't hear ya, speak louder!

[listening carefully]

See? Silence is the answer. Hence the truth is this: there are NO technical people here. Just a few stupid zealots and that's it.

Care to prove the opposite? ;-) Okay, gimme at least ONE of those tech people you're talking about, and I gonna ask him or her my technical question about UAC and Windows Defender. Deal?
quote:
Which so far shows your Macs are indeed inferior?
What shows? The silence part? Or the part with mindless babbling of a couple of zealots? Man, I need some serious arguments to show me ANYTHING. I just don't believe it when I hear silence or a few zealots spitting and hissing. If you wanna show me - do it not with silence, and not with zealotry, 'cause this stuff is worth NOTHING in a technical discussion.
quote:
I don't care about Macs or iPods
In the context of this particular discussion I also don't care much about Macs, 'cause Macs don't touch me a lot yet. I care about braindead moronic implementation of security framework in Vista, specifically in UAC and Windows Defender.
quote:
they have a cheap plastic feel
Who has cheap plastic feel? Aluminum iMacs? Aluminum MacBook Pros? Aluminum Mac Pros? Aluminum iPod Nanos? Quit smoking that shit, your delusions look worrisome.


RE: Gotta love statistics...
By jlips6 on 4/2/2008 7:34:38 PM , Rating: 2
I don't know, it might be all the plastic casing on e-macs, i-macs, macbooks, etc.

Silence? What did you expect? You are talking to yourself, and then giving yourself the illusion the response you get is real to try and back up your gabbling. We have been answering your questions, you refuse to accept their validity. You're starting to go crazy. Literally.


RE: Gotta love statistics...
By Pirks on 4/2/2008 9:25:31 PM , Rating: 2
What do you expect from me if I'm asking a clear question: "How to configure Windows Defender and UAC the way I want" and I only get "just disable it all!" replies.

I'm tired to tell you all that I don't want to disable it, I want to configure it to make it less annoying.

How many times you want me to repeat this simple message?


RE: Gotta love statistics...
By jlips6 on 4/3/2008 11:50:26 AM , Rating: 2
why do you want defender activated again? :/

Windows defender is made to tell you if your software has the chance of infecting your computer with viruses. It's the 1st version of the program, and so it does it's job simply, and doesn't have every feature everyone will want, just the features most people will want. You are complaining about a 1st generation program not having all the features you want. Fair enough. Just don't go so far as to say the people who programmed it should have thought of every concievable situation involving programs not programmed by microsoft.

I don't get why you want it configured so badly. You keep saying you want it this way as your reason, do you actually have a reason to want it that way? There's usually more than one way to solve a problem.


RE: Gotta love statistics...
By Pirks on 4/3/2008 5:49:15 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
why do you want defender activated again?
Why should I want to disable it, to begin with? Isn't Windows Defender a piece of system software that is supposed to run in background and quietly monitor your PC for signs of malware? Why should I want to DISABLE such a useful utility that protects me, huh?
quote:
doesn't have every feature everyone will want, just the features most people will want
So you're telling me that most people would NOT want an option to turn off annoying security messages for some specific applications every time Vista boots? Somehow I'm not buying that. What kind of "people" would _WANT_ TO BE ANNOYED ALL THE TIME? I'm talking about _normal_ people, not MS loving fanatics.
quote:
You keep saying you want it this way as your reason, do you actually have a reason to want it that way?
Of course I have. My background WiFi AP/router application requires admin privileges to run (because it's a piece of networking software that changes kernel routing tables, obviously) so I get annoying Windows Defender popups every time Vista boots, because that application is in my autostart folder. How do I configure Windows Defender and force it to put this application in an exclusion list of the "safe to run" applications? THERE IS NO WAY TO DO THAT BECAUSE WINDOWS DEFENDER IS NON-CONFIGURABLE! Got it?
quote:
There's usually more than one way to solve a problem
Yeah, I wish I heard at least ONE way to solve this problem here.

Everybody tells me to stop bothering and disable those Vista security mechanisms (UAC and Windows Defender), and all my answers that I don't want to disable them, I just want to configure them fall on deaf ears. You started asking me why would I need that, and your next message, if you even bother posting here anymore, would be something like "uh oh, nobody needs it, nobody runs anything like your app in autostart, so why bother with you, the ONLY person who needs that" and then I gonna post here one more time a link to other people like me, like disgruntled rivatuner users who have the same problem, and yada yada and blah blah and so on so forth forever... you'll either disappear and stop posting or keep dodging my questions as long as you can.

Look, I've been through this routine so many times in other forums you won't believe me. It's all ending in the same way - silence.


RE: Gotta love statistics...
By jlips6 on 4/3/2008 10:37:20 PM , Rating: 2
may I point out that the purpose of defender is not to sit back and quietly moniter your computer with malware? It has no effect at all on malicious code. It's supposed to leap out and tell you that you could be infecting your computer. It does that way too well, and therefore, isn't worth it I believe. Maybe you don't know what could infect your computer. Whatever. If you spent enough time learning the ways a virus could get on to your computer instead of trying to configure software to do it for you, you could probably save some time and energy.
And I am asking for your motive so I can find a way around your problem. If you want to keep on account control for your children (though I have no idea how you would be able to score with your fantastic personality.)Then you can disable UAC and get some 3rd party software to moniter them. Just an example. You want to learn what will and won't be able to threaten your computer?

:|
Anything you connect to, install or download to your computer can mess you up. Guess I just solved your problem unless you got another one. Or if you still need defender for some reason. *sigh*


RE: Gotta love statistics...
By robinthakur on 4/1/2008 7:27:02 AM , Rating: 1
I assume you dress in Sackcloth then? Don't be such a hypocrite. Virtually everybody has owned iPods that's no big deal. The obvious next step is to get a Mac. The only limiting factor is your income and your requirements from the machine. Clearly the purchase of a mac reflects her newly increased income and your professional jealousy :) If nobody kept up their appearances, we'd all look like extras from Mad Max 2, at least Mac owners are trying to keep the status quo avante guarde lol


RE: Gotta love statistics...
By Durrr on 4/1/2008 8:07:44 AM , Rating: 2
I own a Toshiba with a custom firmware build :)


By therealnickdanger on 4/1/2008 8:41:41 AM , Rating: 3
Hmm, I've never owned an iPod or any MP3 player for that matter (I suppose my cell phone can play MP3s). I don't see the point.

If I may be so bold, I'm pretty confident that my sackcloth sleeveless turtlenecks surpass anything in even Mr. Jobs' wardrobe. Your comments about The Road Warrior I find most disturbing. While my squeaky leg brace and leather-bound hockey mask often bring me trouble at the airport, I find them extremely comfortable. It may seem funny to you, but you won't be laughing after the coming apocalypse breaks your leg and mutates your face and you're the only one without a brace or a mask. Put that in your iPipe and smoke it!


RE: Gotta love statistics...
By 777 on 4/1/08, Rating: -1
RE: Gotta love statistics...
By robinthakur on 4/1/2008 7:18:27 AM , Rating: 2
You make it sound like Apple Mac sales are shrinking or something...! In truth they are growing, and the reason that 99% of graphic designers and web designers (etc.) use mac's is because you have everything on that platform geared towards design, both historically and at the current time.

For example, Lightroom, Photoshop, Aperture, Motion, Quark are long established to name but a few. That and the colour calibration for print and screen and font handling is heavily emphasized which is obviously a must. Personally I think there's an obvious dicotomy between designing beautiful things and having an ugly box on your desk. Nobody could argue that Apple's designs aren't beautful. Can you get 75% of the same stuff on PC? Yes you can. Does it work better on a Mac with better thought out shortcuts etc? Yes absolutely it does. The problem is that everybody has to use the same compatible software and people are incredibly picky about what they produce. At the end of the day, you are from a completely different technical market to the one which Apple aims for. I wasn't raised on a Mac, but I bought some (Macbook pro and Mac pro) for design work at home and anywhere where my laptop is seen by clients and they are frankly better than my self built (and rather powerful) pc for some types of work, but not all. My main development work I do on SharePoint and dot net, so obviously one needs a microsoft platform of some flavour, but I generally prefer the MAC, all things considered.

Given that the industry is very colloquial and tends to pass its knowledge down from person to person rather than publish it, are you surprised that Mac's still rule the design world?

As a post below notes, alot of people have, this generation, moved to consoles for gaming, which if you take business out of the equation, makes Mac's far more viable for the average person along with the Halo effect of iPod/iPhone impacting sales and changing people's perceptions of Apple as a brand. The fact that they can also boot Vista is only a bonus to most people. The iphone will start to break into business use (it has already started, but I mean more seriously with the active sync tie up, we've already got high-end users demanding iPhones at my financial house) and lets face it, Macbook pro's always get coos of delight wherever they go. One can only covet for so long before one acquires ;)


By Master Kenobi (blog) on 4/1/2008 10:56:12 AM , Rating: 3
People that switch to Mac in many cases switch back within a few years after suffering just as many frustrations on Mac as they did with a PC. On the flip side of the coin, they can't track down their office tech support for a question about a Mac, most of them either won't or can't answer their Mac question.

I think you forget that Mac was the dominant school/home platform until businesses really took off using PC's. People tended to want the same thing at home that they had a work, this resulted in people buying PC's at home.

I've got a number of people here at work that asked for iPhones and that have asked for Mac's. For the iPhone people they are going to live with Blackberries (iPhone doesn't work with our Lotus mail servers). For the people that want Mac, we simply told them if they could do without 90% of their software then sure we would buy some. They decided not to persue it any further.


RE: Gotta love statistics...
By maven81 on 4/1/2008 11:21:35 AM , Rating: 4
quote:
the reason that 99% of graphic designers and web designers (etc.) use mac's is because you have everything on that platform geared towards design, both historically and at the current time.


As someone who actually works as a designer for a living I call that totally bogus. The older generation (30s-40s) grew up in an era (late 80s early 90s) when the mac was definitely the platform geared for graphics. Although the world has moved on their mindset hasn't, and they see no reason to switch, particularly since Apple constantly re-enforces their belief that we're still in the 90s.
With design software now being cross platform, and macs basically using PC hardware, when you're working inside an application there's no difference at all in the user experience. I have Adobe CS3 running on OSX and Vista, there's no difference. In fact some adobe apps (Aftereffects) run better on a PC in my experience.
Aperture is merely Apple's version of lightroom, and an attempt to showcase tools that even photoshop already possessed as something revolutionary. Motion is not any better then Aftereffects, and Quark has lost much of it's user base to Indesign.
If you're not a poser, you don't care what your computer is because you're staring at a screen all day, not your computer.
And the current apple consumer software is targeted at exactly that, posers... for instance sure something like Imovie can make a pretty DVD menu, as long as you like one of it's templates... But all you have done is use pre-existing designs to make you feel like you've done something creative. This is nonsense, you had very little control. Kinda like you can have any color you want as long as it's black.

quote:
The problem is that everybody has to use the same compatible software and people are incredibly picky about what they produce.


People in an actual production environment care about speed, because time is money, hence they will pick the tool that helps them do the job faster, which may or may not be a mac.


RE: Gotta love statistics...
By maven81 on 4/1/2008 11:24:00 AM , Rating: 2
I meant IDVD not Imovie, sorry.


RE: Gotta love statistics...
By AlphaVirus on 4/1/2008 4:44:36 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
As someone who actually works as a designer for a living I call that totally bogus.....macs basically using PC hardware....People in an actual production environment care about speed....

Perfect summary maven81.

I work right next to a team of engineers and they use, majority of the time, AutoCAD to design multi-million dollar projects. Contrary to most anti-PC fanatics belief, they use PC's. Both Dual and Quad core with 2-4GB of ram, but none would ever bother with a Mac.

I get tired of hearing the stereotype "Musicians, producers, artists, etc all use Macs because Macs are designed for them", get a clue and move on.


RE: Gotta love statistics...
By jlips6 on 4/1/2008 5:01:19 PM , Rating: 2
I have noticed that all computers that run auto-CAD at the local school are PC's. In fact, it seems all buisness software either runs on PC's, or is designed by Microsoft with the exception of garage band. Sigh... please apple, you lies hurt my head.


RE: Gotta love statistics...
By 777 on 4/2/08, Rating: 0
RE: Gotta love statistics...
By maven81 on 4/2/2008 4:19:27 PM , Rating: 2
So I guess cubase and sonar doesn't count just because you haven't used it eh? even logic used to be pc based until apple bought it out. Or are you one of those people that think only pro tools and reason are used to do anything?


RE: Gotta love statistics...
By 777 on 4/2/2008 9:07:03 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
So I guess cubase and sonar doesn't count just because you haven't used it eh?


Did I say they don't count? And how would you know I haven't used them? I used Cubase years ago and didn't like it, back then it wasn't very good, again personal choice. I love how some of you guys like to label/suggest are you 'one of those people'.

I have used Waveframe, SoundTools, Fairlight, SSL Screen Sound, Sonic Solutions, Pro Tools and a few others. In Film sound work most sound work is done on a Mac, that is all I was pointing out. My reason was so many on this site seem to love to trash Apple computers, trash the people that use them and tout the PC as the perfect everything computer. Which it's not.


Impressive
By Hydrofirex on 3/31/2008 7:52:47 PM , Rating: 2
Ipod + Iphone + Mac Book Air

Apple is a consumer electronics company. They do seem to be having a good time with this positively impacting their OS business as well - as is to be expected. Still, people aren't leaving by droves and Windows isn't going to not be the dominant OS anytime soon. The people at Apple do a top job of taking consumer electronics to the next level. Meanwhile, they're pushing everyone else in related industries to think a little harder. Microsoft especially needs a little kick in the pants from time to time.

All in all, even though I am an avid Apple hater due to the price/value proposition they fail to offer on any product (Ipods are much more expensive and have less features than a myriad of competing players, not to mention their *Cough* PC's) I have to again and again thank them for stepping up and bringing great ideas to the table.

HfX




RE: Impressive
By BucDan on 3/31/2008 9:00:44 PM , Rating: 2
I really believe that Apple is surviving off their Ipods and the Macs that are being purchased by schools world wide due to their ease of use and easy to fix situations.

But either than that, they are a company that appeal to those who dont understand price/performance, mainly price/looks and that is fine. I mean i bet over 92% of the people in the U.S or even the whole world live off big name brands(Except me, simple plain shirt and a decent named brand pair of jeans, and adidas). The name brand attracts people, and the world wide exposure to schools, who are the big supporters of mac.

The Mac vs Pc thing is stupid and out of the topic, it is meant for those who are COMPUTER illiterate, those that dont understand the whole story. No matter what, I think Windows is the top brand, they stay on top of things, and they get hammered becuase they cant fully support 1 3rd party app or device out of 1000... I mean seriously, I see mac with the closed market that forces you to use their products, apparently recently, they eased on that with the mouses and keyboards,try using a logitech webcam.

Also, as a system builder myself(done as a hobby,overclocker also) the ability of not easily being able to swap out parts take macs off my list. If i were to buy a mac, i would buy one for the mom,since she isnt very computer literate and will need the extra ease of use.


RE: Impressive
By Pirks on 4/1/08, Rating: -1
RE: Impressive
By just4U on 4/1/2008 7:34:27 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Maybe this is a surprise for you, but vast majority of people worry more about comfort than about price/performance, this is why Mac is slowly taking over the market - it's more average user friendly, while Windows is more tech junkie/overclocker friendly.


Oh come on...

A mac is more user friendly because it does not "currently" have to support the hardware and software that windows based systems do right now. If the situation were to reverse or mac's were able to gain a true foothold in the market they would be "FORCED" into supporting hardware/software that windows does. That supposed ease of use would go up in smoke virtually overnight.


RE: Impressive
By MonkeyPaw on 4/1/2008 7:59:47 AM , Rating: 1
Macs ARE more user friendly. For example, there's no confusion on which mouse button to click. Just think, if there were 2, you'd have a 50/50 chance of clicking the wrong one every time. And to think that some windows' mice have many more buttons than that--your odds just keep getting lower. If you're very uncoordinated, multiple mouse buttons are just a disaster waiting to happen.


RE: Impressive
By Pirks on 4/1/08, Rating: -1
RE: Impressive
By just4U on 4/1/2008 12:31:38 PM , Rating: 2
You missed my whole point Pirks. In a world where Macs were dominant they might as well be windows based machines as they would come with all the same hassles and headaches just veiled under a different name.

It would be a step backwards since they dont have the support structure that windows based computers have.


RE: Impressive
By Pirks on 4/2/2008 3:57:25 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
they would come with all the same hassles and headaches just veiled under a different name
Nope, they wouldn't. Closed vertical system like Apple's can't suffer the same problems as the open system a-la Microsoft. When single manufacturer controls BOTH hardware and software/firmware of its computers - what kind of PC-like incompatibility issues may arise? Right, NONE.
quote:
they dont have the support structure that windows based computers have
Closed systems don't need this kind of support structure anyway. This is not "step backwards" as you call it. It's an inherent feature of the closed vertical Apple-style systems. Guess what - some even treat this as an ADVANTAGE :P


RE: Impressive
By maven81 on 4/1/2008 11:53:18 AM , Rating: 2
It's only more user friendly if your idea of user friendly is fisher price. That's what OSX is, "my first OS".
Example. I'm typing this from a mac right now, listening to some music. I'm thinking I'd like to play with the sound quality a bit, maybe change something really basic, like you know, EQ. I go into system prefs > sound. But no... god forbid I want to actually do something so profound, I can just change the volume and pan.
The windows driver for the same exact hardware actually installs a sound control panel which can do all sorts of "amazing" things like set EQ. (Yes, I know I can change EQ in Itunes, but hopefully you see the point).

Now say I wanted to do something really crazy, like uninstall a program. On the mac even if you're lucky enough to have an uninstaller for it I'd have to find it and run it. In windows I have a handy little uninstaller control panel, letting me do such outrageous power user things...
God forbid I need to do a real "power user" thing like change the appearance of the OS, or play with the gamma setting of my monitor, yeah that OSX sure makes it so easy!


RE: Impressive
By Pirks on 4/1/2008 12:46:09 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I can change EQ in Itunes
Exactly! This is why Mac is so simple and friendly - 'cause you don't have to wander through driver control panels and other convoluted places. EQ is WHERE IT IS SUPPOSED TO BE, it's in its LOGICAL/NATURAL place. Hence the average user is going to find it easily, unlike Windows where you're often lost because of it's insane UI.
quote:
uninstall a program
Oh, so you don't know you can just move application to a trash icon. Well, looks like you've been brainwashed by Windows with its stupid installers too much if you can't act naturally anymore :))

Gamma settings of a monitor? It's all in my monitor menu, why do I need another control panel?

Change appearance of the Mac OS? You never heard of Shapeshifter? You're just another boring Windows zealot then.

Learn a little bit about wealth of software available for Mac before babbling out your silliness here. Shapeshifter is just the beginning of your learning curve. Good luck with that!


RE: Impressive
By maven81 on 4/1/2008 1:44:14 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
EQ is WHERE IT IS SUPPOSED TO BE, it's in its LOGICAL/NATURAL place.


Hahahaha... yes, the fact that the sound control panel on a mac does pretty much didly squat isn't a problem, it's a feature! The fact that you can do things in an application is irrelevant when it comes to the OS... Winamp has it's own controls too. I also took it easy on you and used the most basic example. In reality the driver control panel can do a lot more, like set up speakers, add environmental effects like reverb etc.

quote:
Hence the average user is going to find it easily, unlike Windows where you're often lost because of it's insane UI.


I said you go into the control panel on a mac and it doesn't do anything useful... you go to a control panel in windows and it actually allows you to change stuff... what a concept... wow.

quote:
Oh, so you don't know you can just move application to a trash icon.


You just showed that you don't even have a clue when it comes to macs let alone windows. Hate to break it to you, but many mac applications install things all over the place, not just the applications folder... they put things in the system library, your library, sometimes they add fonts, they add settings files, etc. In fact Adobe apps in particular put in so much stuff that if they didn't come with an uninstaller it would be an incredible pain to clean everything out manually. Deleting just the files in the applications folder would still leave all of that stuff.

quote:
Gamma settings of a monitor? It's all in my monitor menu, why do I need another control panel?


Except the apple cinema display has none... Oh I forgot... I don't need to ever change anything... Thanks Steve!

quote:
Change appearance of the Mac OS? You never heard of Shapeshifter? You're just another boring Windows zealot then.


Yes, I'm aware that there are 3rd party utilities, but that's exactly the point, are you saying that the fact that I have to download another program just to change the appearance of the OS is a GOOD thing? When I can do it right in the appearance control panel in windows? Lay off the coolaid already.


RE: Impressive
By Pirks on 4/1/08, Rating: 0
RE: Impressive
By jlips6 on 4/1/2008 5:18:46 PM , Rating: 2
0_0

wow. Impressive rant with no facts. You are not endearing yourself to anyone, while at the same time alienating the people with legitimate arguments against vista because they are associated with you and your bs. You need a little perspective.


RE: Impressive
By Pirks on 4/1/2008 5:50:07 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
Impressive rant with no facts
There is a fact I mentioned above: Windows Defender pops up every time an application launches in autostart that requires admin privileges to run.

Here's a wikipedia article that talks exactly about this stuff:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Defender

Read the following sentence CAREFULLY please, and sit and THINK about it for a minute, this is from that wikipedia article above:

"Windows Defender in Windows Vista automatically blocks all startup items that require administrator privileges to run (this is considered a bad behavior for a startup item). There is no known easy way to automatically unblock these items, the only suggestion given is to "contact the software vendor for an updated version" which is Vista compatible (does not require administrator privileges to run). This automatic blocking is related to the UAC (User Account Control) functionality in Windows Vista, and requires the user to manually run each of these startup items each time they log in."

See this stupidity? THERE IS NO WAY TO CONFIGURE WINDOWS DEFENDER TO STOP ANNOYING USERS when they have admin-rights-requesting apps in their autostart folders in Vista?

You know why I call you all fanatics? Because NO ONE OF YOU, NEVER EVER, presented me with a real counter argument or an app that configures Windows Defender properly.

All I hear is this: just turn this MS crap off, why you are bothering with that?

I ask you: why MS even cared to include the stuff like Windows Defender that USERS HAVE TO TURN OFF?

THINK ABOUT IT, PLEASE THINK CAREFULLY, IT'S VERY IMPORTANT QUESTION!!! ==>> WHY MICROSOFT COULD NOT DO SUCH A SIMPLE THING AS TO ALLOW THE USERS TO PUT THESE SPECIAL APPS IN AN EXCEPTION LIST IN WINDOWS DEFENDER?

WHY I CAN'T INSTEAD OF TURNING WINDOWS DEFENDER OFF COMPLETELY JUST TELL IT: PLEASE IGONRE ONLY _THIS_ PARTICULAR APPLICATION IN AUTOSTART, THIS ONE IS SPECIAL AND I DON'T WANT YOU TO POP UP WITH CONFIRMATION DIALOG EVERY TIME I BOOT VISTA?

Are these questions simple enough for you? I tried REALLY TO DUMB THEM DOWN, I'm sorry, I can't put it any simpler.

Other fanatics start babbling rubbish instead of giving an answer, how about you? Are you going to babble like others or will you be an exception?


RE: Impressive
By jlips6 on 4/1/2008 5:55:18 PM , Rating: 2
the 3 button method will work unless you are not an admin and you should just ask your mom or dad to do that. And wikipedia should not be quoted. I could go in and make that article say the exact opposite in 3 minutes. Why should I assume you haven't done the same thing?


RE: Impressive
By jlips6 on 4/1/2008 5:57:39 PM , Rating: 2
and as I said before, they make this OS for more than you. Please shut up and give me a response that doesn't make me repeat myself. I feel like a parrot here.


RE: Impressive
By Pirks on 4/1/2008 6:03:44 PM , Rating: 1
3 button method? How does it work? Can your "3 button method" make Windows Defender stop popping up when admin-rights-requiring application runs from autostart at boot time?


RE: Impressive
By jlips6 on 4/1/2008 6:07:50 PM , Rating: 2
it turns off account control. I have explained this 4 times now. You make it seem as though you are not an admin. Is this assumption correct? If it isn't you are so stupid you really don't deserve a computer. If it is, then get your administrator to turn off account control. If you are a 5 year old who learns way too many swearwords in school (which I wouldn't doubt.) then you should not be talking about software specifications you know nothing about.


RE: Impressive
By Pirks on 4/1/08, Rating: 0
RE: Impressive
By jlips6 on 4/3/2008 11:54:53 AM , Rating: 2
defender doesn't actually provide security, it tells you if something is a security risk. :-|


RE: Impressive
By Pirks on 4/3/08, Rating: 0
RE: Impressive
By jlips6 on 4/3/2008 10:38:34 PM , Rating: 2
for what? I thought you didn't like pop-up windows. THAT'S ALL IT DOES.


RE: Impressive
By maven81 on 4/1/2008 5:59:46 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
iTunes is a part of an OS, hence your point is moot


Say what?! So if you install itunes on a PC you're actually installing part of OSX?! Oh that's right, you don't know what you're talking about again.

quote:
I need a setting which tells UAC to shut fuck up when I want to run this particular application as an admin


It's right in the control panel despite your stupid lies. Here I'll even link you to some screenshots. http://www.howtogeek.com/howto/windows-vista/disab...

It took all of 5 seconds to find that link on google by the way. Your laziness is amazing.

quote:
What's the problem here? You can't go to "Applications" folder on a Mac and click on that application's uninstaller icon or what? I don't get it.


Not every application has an uninstaller. Surely a mac "guru" such as yourself would know that by now... Not to mention the whole point about having to look for it, or having one convenient place for all of them. Perhaps the apple designers couldn't come up with a cute icon for it?

quote:
Hahaha, if you're stupid enough to buy Apple LCD displays - you deserve that.


Oddly enough they aren't actually crappy, though they are definitely overpriced. At least they use S-IPS panels (last I checked). But I don't understand, wasn't a lack of control supposed to be a good thing according to you?

quote:
just show me the 3rd party application for Windows that forces Windows Defender to shut fuck up about THIS ONE PARTICULAR APPLICATION that I want to exclude from Defender's autostart folder's checks.


Then tell defender to ignore it! No 3rd party apps necessary.

quote:
Some stuff you have to do on Mac with 3rd party app, versus some stuff YOU FUCKING CANNOT TO DO ON WINDOWS AT ALL!!


This is total BS. In fact when it comes to UAC there are no less then 4 different ways to turn it off! Hell you could even deactivate defender, no one is forcing you to use it you know. But you simply have nothing to say, you're just repeating the same crap over and over... UAC, UAC, UAC...


RE: Impressive
By Pirks on 4/1/2008 6:30:31 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
if you install itunes on a PC you're actually installing part of OSX
What's wrong with that?
quote:
It's right in the control panel despite your stupid lies
It's not my lies, it's your unwillingness to understand what I was talking about. I was talking about DISABLING UAC POPUPS FOR ONE SPECIAL APPLICATION, AND WHEN IT'S RUNNING FROM AUTOSTART.

Do you understand this? I WANT TO DISABLE UAC AND WINDOWS DEFENDER CHECKS JUST FOR ONE APPLICATION.

I DO NOT WANT TO DISABLE WINDOWS DEFENDER AND UAC IN GENERAL!!!

How hard is that to understand???????

I DO NOT WANT TO DISABLE WINDOWS PROTECTION MECHANISMS.

I ONLY WANT TO CONFIGURE THEM TO MY NEEDS, THAT'S ALL!!!

I DO NOT WANT TO DISABLE WINDOWS PROTECTION MECHANISMS.

I ONLY WANT TO CONFIGURE THEM TO MY NEEDS, THAT'S ALL!!!

How many times I have to repeat it here????!!!
I can do it 1000 more times, I'll just write a simple Perl script and post its output here until you start UNDERSTANDING!!!!
quote:
Not every application has an uninstaller
I haven't seen an application you can't uninstall on a Mac. Care to give me a couple of examples? I'm curious.
quote:
having one convenient place for all of them
Why is the Mac OS "Applications" folder not a convenient place for you?

How is it worse compared to Vista's "Programs and features" folder?

Please explain.
quote:
though they are definitely overpriced
Yeah, that's what I meant, they are overpriced. Hence they are crappy :)

Lack of control? Right, if you can't find display control software in Mac OS (built-in or 3rd patry) you have to look into control menus on your display, don't you? If there's no software - just don't buy Apple monitor without control menus. Isn't that simple?
quote:
Then tell defender to ignore it
Shit, I can't fucking stand this crap, you're killing me, man!!!

I TOLD YOU ALL FUCKING TEN TIMES ALREADY - THERE IS _NO_ _FUCKING_ _WAY_ TO CONFIGURE WINDOWS DEFENDER TO IGNORE THIS ONE SPECIAL APPLICATION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

DO YOU UNDERSTAND IT???????????

YOU CAN ONLY 1) TURN WINDOWS DEFENDER OFF COMPLETELY OR 2) PUT UP WITH ITS CRAP AND CLICK "ACCEPT" EVERY TIME YOU BOOT WINDOWS

YOU CAN NOT CONFIGURE IT!!!!

YOU CAN NOT FORCE IT TO IGNORE THAT _ONE_ _SPECIFIC_ AUTOSTART APPLICATION!!!!!

YOU CAN ______NOT________ ____ DO ______ THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!

HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO REPEAT THAT??????????????????

Here ya go, one more time: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Defender

"There is no known easy way to automatically unblock these items"

"There is no known easy way to automatically unblock these items"

"There is no known easy way to automatically unblock these items"

"requires the user to manually run each of these startup items each time they log in"

"requires the user to manually run each of these startup items each time they log in"

"requires the user to manually run each of these startup items each time they log in"

HOW MANY TIMES I HAVE TO REPEAT THAT?????????

HOW MANY TIMES I HAVE TO REPEAT THAT?????????

HOW MANY TIMES I HAVE TO REPEAT THAT?????????

Can you show me how to force Windows Defender to ignore that one specific application??

NO ONE HERE COULD!!! I'VE BEEN TELLING THE SAME STUFF OVER AND OVER AGAIN, AND ALL I HEARD IS TO TURN IT OFF COMPLETELY

I DO __NOT__ WANT TO TURN IT OFF COMPLETELY

I DO __NOT__ WANT TO TURN IT OFF COMPLETELY

I DO __NOT__ WANT TO TURN IT OFF COMPLETELY

I WANT TO CONFIGURE IT, _ONLY_ TO CONFIGURE IT PROPERLY, TO IGNORE ONLY THIS PARTICULAR APPLICATION

I WANT TO CONFIGURE IT, _ONLY_ TO CONFIGURE IT PROPERLY, TO IGNORE ONLY THIS PARTICULAR APPLICATION

I WANT TO CONFIGURE IT, _ONLY_ TO CONFIGURE IT PROPERLY, TO IGNORE ONLY THIS PARTICULAR APPLICATION

HOW MANY TIMES I HAVE TO REPEAT THAT?????????

HOW MANY TIMES I HAVE TO REPEAT THAT?????????

HOW MANY TIMES I HAVE TO REPEAT THAT?????????

I'm really tired to type this, but what can I do guys if this is the only language you understand? What can I do if just saying this in simple language only once is not enough?

I'm sorry, but you just force me to repeat the same over and over again.

I wanna talk normal, but YOU don't want to. Sigh.

Okay, so did you get my point now or not? I just don't want to turn UAC off, I don't want to turn Windows Defender off because these protection mechanisms are not that bad, I think protection should be enabled, but I just want to configure it a little to make it not fucking annoying, to make it normal and unobtrusive.

What's wrong with that? Am I wrong when I want to do this? If yes, why?

Please explain.


RE: Impressive
By maven81 on 4/2/2008 4:25:22 PM , Rating: 2
I don't believe a word you say you silly troll.
I don't believe you actually used vista for any decent amount of time. Or that you actually have any issues with it. You know squat about hardware, you clearly never owned a mac pro or any other mac, let alone repaired them for 2 years like I have, or had to deal with their moronic and unstable operating systems.
And what's funny is that you think you're fooling or tricking anyone here? We're laughing at you!


RE: Impressive
By Pirks on 4/2/2008 4:52:09 PM , Rating: 2
Perfectly normal reply for an average fanatic, but there may be some reasonably minded people around, who don't suffer from a constant Wintel zealotry accesses.

I'm still waiting for ya guys! Fanatics are boring, and intelligent people post replies very rarely here, unfortunately.

I need somebody like masher but with the insane level of expertise in Vista, not in general natural science. Now THAT would be a worthy discussion.


RE: Impressive
By jlips6 on 4/3/2008 11:57:02 AM , Rating: 2
because so far you have shown such great knowledge of vista. </sarcasm> :|


RE: Impressive
By Pirks on 4/3/08, Rating: 0
RE: Impressive
By jlips6 on 4/3/2008 10:42:33 PM , Rating: 2
Here, I can summarize that for you.

lol, just testing you guys.
CAPITAL LETTERS. EVERYONE ELSE IS DUMB. I AM SMART. S-M-R-T. FANATICS. WINTELS. NO ONE IS GIVING ME ANSWERS.


Macs are a better experience for most users
By sapiens74 on 3/31/2008 11:03:02 PM , Rating: 2
I love my Windows, Even Vista, and to top it off Vista 64, but I have a MAC for my movie making and photo editing because my GF can jump on it and do more in 5 minutes then she can do in an hour on the PC, and I don't have to play tech at home.

I am MCSE, run the whole network for the state of Hawaii for our company and without Windows I wouldn't have a job, and I love Office 2007 and Server 2003, which Apple can't come close to making enterprise class software. However end users just want to plug in their computer and it works from the start, and Apple does a much better job at that. With Vista it took me so long to find drivers and applications, then setup the settings to work correctly, then patch, all this while I am an expert.

The average person surfs the net, listens to music, and has a digital camera that they want to just work when it plugs in.

Windows doesn't do that very well, unless you know what you are doing and have the time. Even then its cumbersome.

A PC is great for those of us who don't mind using regedit, or visiting anandtech forums to figure out why the new game is crashing, but for 90 percent of the rest of the world who just want to push the power button and it works, Apple is a good, albeit more expensive choice.

Grats to Apple....




By bobsmith1492 on 3/31/2008 11:15:01 PM , Rating: 3
I bought my computer, put in the Vista 64-bit disk and clicked "Install;" I came back a few hours later and was surfing the web. No biggie.


RE: Macs are a better experience for most users
By insurgent on 4/1/2008 12:25:00 AM , Rating: 3
quote:
The average person surfs the net, listens to music, and has a digital camera that they want to just work when it plugs in.

Windows doesn't do that very well, unless you know what you are doing and have the time. Even then its cumbersome.


This is bs, i can do all of these in Vista64 and XP Pro without installing add'l apps. Oh, and I haven't used regedit for years. You're making excuses but maybe, just maybe, your gf is stupid... there's a thought.


RE: Macs are a better experience for most users
By rcc on 4/1/2008 12:45:02 PM , Rating: 2
Who cares who uses what, and why? Does it somehow offend you that someone finds virtue where you don't? Does it somehow threaten you?

Hot tip de jour.... If you stop saying Apple sucks, you quit getting arguements about it.

I haven't owned a Mac in 10 years, because I like playing games on my computer. Other than that, it's a very harmonious experience, it's just not for everyone.


RE: Macs are a better experience for most users
By VashHT on 4/1/2008 7:28:42 PM , Rating: 1
It sounds to me like hes just defending windows, I have a big problem with mac users making up things about Windows as well. NO, you don't need to know how to regedit to run a PC EVER, not to mention setting up a PC is just as easy as setting up a mac. Both platforms you plug in everything and turn it on and it boots into their respective OS. I never understood how someone could screw this up on a PC and not a Mac, its exactly the same process.

In short, hes just defending the fact that Windows does not ever require advanced usage such as regedit, thats something that advanced users choose to do. I agree with you, I don't hate macs but every Mac person I know shits on PCs as if they have something to prove.


By rcc on 4/4/2008 7:09:09 PM , Rating: 2
::shrugs::
I haven't owned a Mac in about 10 years. Not because there was a problem, or because I didn't like it, but because it didn't have the software I needed/wanted (Games!!!).

What I find humorous is that 90% of the time one of these discussions comes up, it's the PC world attacking the Mac/Apple world and the Mac world responding in kind.

So, my point was that most of the people I know are quite reasonable until you say xyz sucks and you are stupid for using it.


RE: Macs are a better experience for most users
By Pirks on 4/1/08, Rating: -1
RE: Macs are a better experience for most users
By jlips6 on 4/1/2008 11:31:24 AM , Rating: 2
yeah, turning it off takes less than a minute. It's called account control. So difficult


RE: Macs are a better experience for most users
By Pirks on 4/1/2008 12:02:34 PM , Rating: 1
Yeah, I can turn everything off, but try to answer this one: why the heck Microsoft puts some junk functionality in Vista that users should bother to turn off to get work done? Why put so much garbage in an OS? The garbage that users are turning off anyway. Why the heck I never wanted to turn off ANYTHING on a Mac ever, and on Windows you just HAVE TO turn stupid MS junk off?


RE: Macs are a better experience for most users
By rcc on 4/1/2008 1:10:08 PM , Rating: 2
In all fairness, only a small percentage of Vista users need to turn UAC off. Doesn't make it less frustrating if you do, but it's not an issue, and certainly not something to judge the whole OS on.

Interestingly enough, if you bring UAC up in a Vista vs. XP discussion... it suddenly becomes a bigger issue.

I've made this observation before, but I'll dump it here just for grins.

It's my experience that Mac users (not people forced to use a Mac) like their computers and OS. Windows users like to complain about their OS, unless you compare it to anything else, then it's the best thing available. Which isn't necessarily untrue, but it's a bit like saying bananas are the perfect food.


RE: Macs are a better experience for most users
By Pirks on 4/1/2008 10:44:33 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
it's not an issue
Constantly crashing Windows 3.x was not an issue for people like you. Which doesn't change anything. For some people it's not an issue being pissed on every day, so what?
quote:
Windows users like to complain about their OS, unless you compare it to anything else, then it's the best thing available
Used to be true before the era of iPod, iPhone and Mactels. Now I'm not really sure it's true anymore. Growing Mac market share tells me a lot.


By rcc on 4/4/2008 6:57:45 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Constantly crashing Windows 3.x was not an issue for people like you


hmmm, what exactly is a people like me? At the time Win3.1 was in use I had one computer running it, and another running Mac OS 6,7, whatever it was at the time. Regardless, if you get pissed off every day over having to turn something off once, you have some issues.

quote:
Used to be true before the era of iPod, iPhone and Mactels. Now I'm not really sure it's true anymore. Growing Mac market share tells me a lot.


Perhaps you should read what my previous post actually said.


RE: Macs are a better experience for most users
By jlips6 on 4/1/2008 5:12:08 PM , Rating: 2
they make these settings often times with the assumption that you are not the only person in the world who wants to buy their OS. What if a dad who needs his compy for buisness and can't afford to have it crashed by a virus needs a system to tell his kid what he can or can't install? Or a million other situations no-one has time to read about.

They have that option now. If they don't need it, it is easy and fast to turn off, you click 3 buttons and you're done.

Your arguments are based on personal opinion and situation, they don't show any contemplation for others, and you clearly don't show any consideration for others. I have no patience for you. All my arguments to future posts you can already find on this page. Unless it might take more than 3 clicks to find them. Then I guess you're screwed, as that is the limit of your ability it appears.


By Pirks on 4/2/2008 1:09:37 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
I have no patience for you. All my arguments to future posts you can already find on this page.
Same here. I presented all my arguments here as well. I know the answer to them but I was just testing you guys. Noone yet passed my test for zealotry. You all fall into the trap again and again.

Whatever...


RE: Macs are a better experience for most users
By jlips6 on 4/1/2008 5:15:12 PM , Rating: 2
and when you say everything, I think that makes your argument a little unfair, as all these problems are caused by 1 thing. Yeah, I can turn it off, but what will they do next?
Create something else that I can turn off? Oh, the humanity.


RE: Macs are a better experience for most users
By Pirks on 4/2/2008 4:15:25 AM , Rating: 2
The problem is not that I can't DISABLE this feature. The problem is that I can't CONFIGURE it.


RE: Macs are a better experience for most users
By jlips6 on 4/3/2008 11:59:46 AM , Rating: 2
maybe you should have said that in the first place instead of bringing it up later for argumentative purposes only.


RE: Macs are a better experience for most users
By Pirks on 4/3/2008 6:11:47 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
maybe you should have said that in the first place
Maybe you guys should have asked for details of my problem in the first place?


By jlips6 on 4/3/2008 10:45:38 PM , Rating: 2
Maybe (ending that here.) we were assuming that if you want a problem solved you state the problem you want solved. This is not 21 questions. We shouldn't have to carfully tease your problem from a jumbled knot of wiggling complaints.


By nikon133 on 4/1/2008 4:52:51 PM , Rating: 2
You are trying to say that only 10% of desktop users are into games (thus having to check frequently why their games are crashing) while other 90% just "push button and it works" (WHAT works..?).

Umm...


Most impactful?
By Oregonian2 on 3/31/2008 8:56:12 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
Apple, Starbucks, Google, Nike, and Coca-Cola


Survey is a hoot. Impactful? One could easily do without all those company's products (except maybe for one) and not make a big impact on one's lives.

By comparison the "brand" of school one went to makes a HUGE difference.

Shoot, I'd put Panasonic ahead of most of those. They make a *LOT* more product than any of those above and even if something doesn't say "Panasonic" on it, if it's electronic there's a good chance that there are panasonic made parts inside of it, so impact is made even if not known about.

Or how about the maker of the CAT scanner machine that's been used on me a few times? WAY bigger impact on me than CocaCola. They just don't advertise on TV much.

How about Bayer, the maker of Aspirin? Or one of their competitors (both in Aspirin as well as other pain relievers).

Or perhaps Con-Agra or the other few HUGE food companies. MUCH bigger impact and on a lot of people.

The only one I think I'd agree with being anywhere near the top one hundred is Google.

IMHO anyway...... :-)




RE: Most impactful?
By exanimas on 3/31/2008 10:47:19 PM , Rating: 3
I would probably die of caffeine/sugar withdrawals if they eliminated Coca-cola.


April Fools'
By thewalrusnp on 4/1/2008 11:01:34 AM , Rating: 3
Best April Fools' I've seen in a long time.




RE: April Fools'
By jlips6 on 4/1/2008 11:33:22 AM , Rating: 2
you fool! it's not april fools, It's march 32!


...
By Duwelon on 3/31/2008 6:57:17 PM , Rating: 2
"and the company user can't live without."

There's one reason and one reason alone: Ipod




RE: ...
By dr4gon on 3/31/2008 7:27:17 PM , Rating: 2
there's plenty of alternates out there, I think i'll be ok.


How did I know?
By Domicinator on 4/1/2008 9:55:58 AM , Rating: 2
Another Apple loving Jason Mick article. I can't believe that this website actually claims that Jason Mick doesn't even use Macs. That's ridiculous. He forces the Apple Kool Aid on people every chance he gets.

People like Apple because of the logo on the top of the computer. That's about it. Most of them can't even tell you WHY they like Apple better. In fact, I have never been able to get a Mac user to give me a logical reason. Most of the time they just say something ridiculous, such as "It's easier to burn a CD on my Mac than it is on a PC."

The other thing I've noticed is that Mac people like to announce to the world that they use a Mac. For example, a PC user will say, "I was checking my e mail the other day and....." A Mac user will say, "I was checking my e mail on my Mac the other day and......"

It's really really getting ridiculous. I can't fault Apple for their good marketing and successful products, but their commercials are out and out lies most of the time, and their users turn into braindead sheep zombies.

And leave it to Jason Mick to just keep perpetuating this dumbing down of America.




RE: How did I know?
By hemmy on 4/15/2008 4:11:37 PM , Rating: 2
My god this is so true

Just the other day while about to watch a video on my computer, this guy I know who has his Macbook with him says "we can watch it on my laptop MACs have the best sound"


End of Discussion
By frissss on 4/1/2008 3:41:27 PM , Rating: 2
Ok let me sum up everything i've read right here.

Macs are for dumb ppl that want to look pretty

pcs are for smart ppl that want to be able to do what they want on a computer

hmmm.... I vote for pcs




RE: End of Discussion
By Pirks on 4/1/2008 3:55:19 PM , Rating: 2
Or, in other words:

Macs are for average people who don't know much about computers

PCs are for technical people (admins, developers, overclockers, etc)

You vote for PC because you're a techie, but market votes for Macs because most consumers on a market are non-techies, they are average people who don't know how a computer works.


this story fails to mention
By rtk on 3/31/2008 8:13:54 PM , Rating: 3
that 74% of those polled were marketers (Out of 2200, that's over 1600), and apple received 22% of the vote.

A more correct title would be: Only 22% of 1600 Mac trained marketers found the brand "inspiring".

Doesn't sound as good of course.




Whata 'bout peaches
By Operator911 on 4/3/2008 12:03:54 AM , Rating: 3
I like apples alrite - but thars nuttin better than a Georgia peach - O'Henry an Red Globe r my favo-rite 8^)




"The Process"
By drunkenmastermind on 3/31/2008 7:44:04 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
influence the viewer's though process.


Sounds cosmic man! Maybe that's because of Steve's use of acid in the 70's?




opinions are like....
By Screwballl on 3/31/2008 9:59:06 PM , Rating: 2
well you know, and they all stink...

Lets get our tax dollars spent on something worthwhile, like a cure for cancer, a cure for oil, and a cure for homelessness.




By knowom on 3/31/2008 11:09:25 PM , Rating: 2
"Apple Has Top Brand According to World Consumers"

"Survey among professionals, students puts Apple brand as most impactful on their lives, Microsoft wins most in need of revamp"

First, a major study revealed that Mac use caused what researchers labeled as a "snob effect".

They got one thing right apple has been most impactful in my life at trying to shove it self down my throat for over two decades now. Is it really any wonder apple is popular among professionals snobs and their aspiring student counterparts?

I'd tell apple snobs to "bite me", but with their "fruity" nature I'm afraid they'd try to take take me literally.

"Here's a new slogan for them...apple so good you'd rather wash dirty windows!"




Um nope...
By Vim on 4/1/2008 12:49:46 AM , Rating: 2
You can't win mac. The force is strong with this one (windows).




OS X is the reason why
By KoolAidMan1 on 4/1/2008 4:50:33 AM , Rating: 2
I have both Windows PCs and Macs on my network (Windows user for 20 years, OS X for only 6) and honestly, if it wasn't for games and this habit of building a new gaming rig every two years I would be all OS X at this point.

Apple seems to be the only company that employs UI engineers these days. Getting a simple one or two step task done in OS X takes me three to six in Windows. I get work done so much faster and more efficiently it is ridiculous. Window management, application management, directory tree navigation, little things like application installation/deletion and renaming things, new features like Quick Look, Spaces (virtual desktops aren't new but the implementation is great), Time Machines, not to mention that an OS X machine takes zero maintenance to keep running like new many many years after the first time it was turned on. No malware scans, no defrag, no registry cleaning, nothing. OS X totally gets out of my way and I can get my work done. Even with years of experience with Windows I feel like I'm fighting against it sometimes. Sure, Windows does a lot of things pretty well but when I see how much better in general it is with OS X I only want to see more improvement come out of Microsoft. Here's to Windows 7.

And speaking of improvement, now it looks like Apple really needs to step up with their own security. Limiting root/admin access has worked for years but with Safari being such an open door now, that is just asking for trouble.




Analytical Analysis
By Setsunayaki on 4/1/2008 8:06:26 AM , Rating: 2
I have around a dozen computers at home...Im heavily into computer technologies.

I've been designing webpages and using programs like photoshop for years. It doesn't matter wether it is Windows, Mac OS X or Linux....The three platforms have programs that can be used to make such pages....

And you don't need a 2ghz machine in order to do. Lets not forget that back in the day of the Pentium 3, those processors were used for web servers...

I have a 600mhz IBM thinkpad. The system through a bios update has 640MB SDRAM...Integrated graphics are what that thing uses....and for 90% of basic to even flash based web pages...I can design then. I also have a laptop that cost me $400 and its a 1.4ghz laptop on Windows XP...Again the OS is not going to make my web pages....the programs I use will make them.

Now who cares if I use Windows, Linux or Mac to make a web page? In the very end, the performance difference doesnt matter since we don't visually see any inpact. Suppose MAC gave a 20% performance increase in making web pages? That won't matter since 90% of making a web page involves using Images and typing in code on a text editor. If you want to use Dreamweaver, Ive used that flawlessly on the 600mhz laptop without any problems.

Aside from Developing Web Pages, I like putting together game mods....and so I use Maya/3DsMax....

Well, Intel now works on MACs and that is always a good thing. However the architectural design of Intel made it so that 32 bit programs and operating systems only have access to half the register on the processor per core...This comes from reading 100s of pages of C2D and C2Q processor architecture. I can program in Intel Assembly of the current generation of processors and I love testing out the processors.

The Intel C2D and C2Q processors go into 32-bit mode when executing such a program. They are 64-bit native with 32 bit support...So. Now comes conditions:

Vista 64-bit: Not enough drivers for a 64-bit environment, or drivers lacking. Performance drops also due to bloatware, but I would not suggest anyone upgrading to Vista unless they planned on going 64 bit.

Windows XP Pro 64-bit: This one has enough drivers to make it work and its based on the Windows Server 2003 Kernel. This is the on I am using and has 64-bit native programs to help it on the way.

Mac OS X 10.5: Apple has rereleased Mac OS X many times over, forcing people to spend money to use the same OS where 80%+ remains the same...That aside...leopard is 64-bit....Unfortunately....

The supporting programs used by apple have a similarity to Windows when they say "Supports 64-bit" when its really a 32-bit program made compatible to run on a 64-bit machine.....

As stands right now, there isn't a single native 64-bit program for Mac OS X 10.5 Leopard. That may change soon, but for now...there is actually one industrial program on each category that is Native 64-bit that works for the different Windows 64-bit versions. Linux also has a lot of 64-bit Operating systems and 64-bit native programs out there...

Linux: While 64 bit drivers exist. Only few Linux builds can be considered for everyday desktop usage...BUT WAIT A MINUTE...if you are a programmer and super serious, you can make linux work with a lot less flaws so being open source is an advantage to a programmer....but not to the mainstream until Ubuntu and other Linux machine can reach mainstream support with some real documentation on making ir work for those who dont know comps.

I analyzed 64-bit systems because the C2D and C2Q processors work better on 64 bit systems. In fact you would be crazy not to use a 64-bit system and always set the processor to 32-bit mode in execution.

Im sure everyone agrees that MACs have been used by artists in the past, but one reality that I see is that I can't refer to macs as development platforms or industrial machines....My reasoning is that you pay tons and tons of money for a MAC and they can't even give you a top of the line video card and SCSI (or RAPTOR) HDD....They always give you a 7200 RPM high storage HDD...and anyone on a development platform would go for speed, precision and reliability over mass storage space.

Finally....This must be said ^_^

Macs and Hacking ^_^.....

An Inquirer article claimed that MAC got hacked in 2 minutes. I said to myself upon reading such article...WHO CARES? IF I was a hacker.....knowing that 80% of the servers in the world are on Unix/Linux and the majority of most critical information people have is kept on Windows.....and knowing that MAC OS X is used by people who create a lot of Images...and then show off by uploading them to deviant art, where people can steal them....

What would I find if I hacked a Mac? Some diary of a 15 - 18 year old woman? Some good pictures I can steal? As though I can't find enough of them online...What about videos I can steal? Oh wait...they tend to end up on youtube somewhere....

If I was a hacker, I would love to steal information from industrial servers I can sell to foreign companies for millions...This makes so that most people who hack windows do it maliciously for information......while the true hackers are out there trying to take down servers for their secrets.....

The point is that only a fool would want to try to hack a mac knowing where most important and critical data resides. (windows is used a lot for businesses, Windows Server 2003 and Linux are used for a lot of web servers and file servers...as well as XP Pro.)




iPhone is the killer product
By alan328 on 4/1/2008 9:50:06 AM , Rating: 2
When you check the "most searched keywords" for the last months on google.... You will see that the top #1 keyword is ..... "iPhone"

I think it explain everything ~
Ha ~ I just bought my iPhone 2 days ago too.....

Alan328
http://www.modes4u.com/en/manu/m1_Tenshi-Neko.html




Re-inventing the Wheel
By murphyslabrat on 4/1/2008 10:37:23 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
[Apple keeps] reinventing itself all along and providing, over and over again, a new perspective on what we thought was carved in stone.

Yeah, like the belief that the value of a computer should be proportional to it's cost.




Mac - Lifestyle?
By coderman on 4/1/2008 6:22:42 PM , Rating: 2
I'll have to add this in - Mac is a lifestyle choice, and is marketed as such. And to define yourself by your technology choices is just sad.

I loathe Mac users - they're full of attitude and if they wanted to actually be productive, they'd be using PC's and Windows. None of the Linux or Mac BS. Those platforms are for snobs who need a way to feel superior ;) Proven time and time again




It is a great os, quick look is great
By Esquire on 3/31/08, Rating: -1
RE: It is a great os, quick look is great
By StevoLincolnite on 3/31/2008 7:16:13 PM , Rating: 5
Yet I can live without a mac, because I am a gamer and windows feels like "home" to me.
I also don't like the iPods and prefer a Creative Zen.


RE: It is a great os, quick look is great
By daftrok on 4/1/2008 1:37:35 AM , Rating: 5
I can also live without paying hundreds more.


RE: It is a great os, quick look is great
By Pirks on 4/2/2008 4:28:29 AM , Rating: 2
Everyone can live without paying more, that's why most people drive cheapo Chevy instead of luxury Lexus.


By daftrok on 4/2/2008 6:37:31 PM , Rating: 2
Actually its like instead of buying a 2008 Camry for 30 grand I can buy a 2007 Camry for 20 grand.


RE: It is a great os, quick look is great
By pugster on 3/31/2008 8:47:00 PM , Rating: 2
We have seen too much Mac vs PC commercials and hear how bad Windows vista is. Unfortunately, Microsoft don't have much control over the driver installation like problems with Nvidia graphics cards. But more than 95% of the companies out there still use the 'inferior' Windows OS and alot of applications out there are only being used for PC's only.

If you want simple, overpriced, pretty looking OS which pretty much nothing, use a mac. For the rest of us, we use pc's.


RE: It is a great os, quick look is great
By jlips6 on 3/31/2008 9:09:54 PM , Rating: 5
Microsoft doesn't blame apple for firefox not working on leopard for the first month it was released. Why is Apple trying to blame microsoft for other companies blunders? Because they have no real arguments, duh.


By exanimas on 3/31/2008 11:07:44 PM , Rating: 2
Microsoft doesn't do that because they don't have to. Apple's commercials make Microsoft look dumb and Apple look godly. To an uninformed consumer, that could make the difference in what OS they decide to go with. Apple has to spend the money on advertising (and I'm sure it does help) to get brand recognition, but Microsoft's OS comes pre-installed on about 99% of the computers out there. Aside from that, most people are used to using it at their jobs and are more comfortable with it. My $.02.


By Setsunayaki on 4/1/2008 8:14:18 AM , Rating: 2
Because Apple Believes that the Creator of the OS should also create the software and limit all the companies...so you actually pay APPLE to download updates and third party updates too. You go through apple so that you can UPDATE your system and 3rd party programs and when you do directly to the THIRD PARTY asking for an update, most of them tell you to use MAC's Updating program.

Talk about individual profit without individual liabilities....Corporations....

This is why I do not like MACs to begin with. Freedom to a MAC user is the equivalent to living in a Fascist Regime Nation and saying "Im free, it just works"


RE: It is a great os, quick look is great
By KoolAidMan1 on 4/1/2008 4:52:26 AM , Rating: 2
There is nothing I can't do on OS X that I can't do on my Windows machines. I can actually do a bit more since I prefer Final Cut Studio to Avid Express (the only reason I got my first Mac to begin with).


By amandahugnkiss on 4/1/2008 6:14:53 AM , Rating: 2
yep, for what you do I bet you're right. Then there's this whole corporate world and concept of security, IPSec, etc... that if you did need OS X just doesn't support. There's a reason why so many virtualization products and BootCamp exist, they are there to accomodate the shortcommings of OS X.


By AraH on 4/1/2008 6:43:54 AM , Rating: 1
right-click.

(now don't try to get back and me and say you can with another mouse, you know it's not meant to be...)


By eye smite on 3/31/2008 9:05:04 PM , Rating: 4
Wait til all those people start getting exploited through Safari. lol


By jlips6 on 3/31/2008 9:08:25 PM , Rating: 2
Uh, I use leopard, and it sucks. Quick look does nothing, it's slower than previous operating systems, it's buggy as hell, it has coverflow (don't mistake this as a pro.), my favorite mac feature dashboard I had to search through several files to find, and it's difficult for me to use when I try to click something and suddenly it springs from the toolbar and I end up clicking the wrong file.

My family are Die-hard mac addicts and they hate leopard.

And vista gives you a preview of whatever you are looking at too. Maybe if you took some time to look at the OS you would discover it has a lot of leopards features.

Of course, this is just my opinion. So sue me Mossburg.


"If you look at the last five years, if you look at what major innovations have occurred in computing technology, every single one of them came from AMD. Not a single innovation came from Intel." -- AMD CEO Hector Ruiz in 2007











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