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Survey among professionals, students puts Apple brand as most impactful on their lives, Microsoft wins most in need of revamp

There has been a resurgence in the influence that brands, particularly those of tech companies, hold over people of late.  First, a major study revealed that Mac use caused what researchers labeled as a "snob effect".  Further research indicated exposure to the Apple logo could subliminally increase creativity and otherwise influence the viewer's thorough process.

Now new research by the online magazine Brandchannel reveals intriguing insight into how the consumer elite worldwide -- professionals and students -- view various companies.  Over 2,000 people were surveyed and among the companies Apple did the best, placing first in all six categories of appeal, including the most inspiring company and the company users can't live without. 

Microsoft was voted as the company people most wanted to argue with.  Furthermore, it was also voted the company most in need of a revamp.  Interestingly the USA national brand came in second in voting of a brand which most needed a revamp.

Brandchannel editor Jim Thompson states, "Apple has clearly captured the hearts and minds by leading across most categories. Others, such as the USA nation brand, which ranks highly as most in need of a rebrand, requires help according to our readers."

The study declined to examine brand value, often labeled a pseudo-science, which revolves around a theoretical determination of how much a brand is worth.  In brand value studies, Coca-Cola's Coke typically comes in first.

Most respondents in the survey did not think there was such a thing as a "green brand".  The survey indicates that many of the large company's efforts to establish an environmentally friendly image have largely resulted in failure. 

Among the praise lavished on Apple, one anonymous participant stated that there was "never a dull moment" from the company and that they keep "reinventing itself all along and providing, over and over again, a new perspective on what we thought was carved in stone."

Another unnamed participant stated that Microsoft had "gone from innovative and bold to stodgy and follower."

Following close behind Apple were Starbucks, Google, Nike, and Coca-Cola.  Most of these same brands, along with Apple at top, were selected as the brand responders would most "like to sit next to at a dinner party", though Starbucks received the boot in this category.

The responders came from over 107 countries and the survey occurred between February 24 and March 9.



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Gotta love statistics...
RE: Gotta love statistics...
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 3/31/2008 8:29:13 PM , Rating: 3
True. Regular end users tend to like the fancy Apple OSX, no doubt there. However when it comes right down to it, the bottom line is that Windows is a far more conductive and productive business platform. We've got about 20 Mac's at work right now for a few graphics design guys in our PR department that were raised on Mac. Even though Windows can do everything Mac can, it's a psychological safety blanket to be on a "Mac" for them. No big deal, but as these people are being fired or retire, their replacements seem to be more receptive to Windows. ;)


RE: Gotta love statistics...
By therealnickdanger on 3/31/2008 10:50:15 PM , Rating: 5
A good friend of mine owned Windows PCs her whole life, then she got a job at Target corporate. She started dressing "urban chic", got an iPod, then later got a MacBook. She can barely use the thing, but she's happy. All her coworkers have MacBooks and iPods too... coincidence?

To me, based upon the people I know that own Macs, it's more about keeping up appearances than functionality.


RE: Gotta love statistics...
By headbox on 4/1/2008 1:03:40 AM , Rating: 1
Sure, wannabe yuppy Mac users can be annoying. But is being a Microsoft fanboi any better?


RE: Gotta love statistics...
By StevoLincolnite on 4/1/2008 1:38:42 AM , Rating: 2
Yes because Windows has more usability than a Mac.
(Gaming is a big plus, Hardware compatibility is another, Emulation of other systems)


RE: Gotta love statistics...
By Pirks on 4/1/08, Rating: -1
RE: Gotta love statistics...
By ImSpartacus on 4/1/2008 6:30:15 AM , Rating: 2
Do you want me to price out a <$900 PC with 4GB of RAM, a Penryn, and an 8800GT? Throw in an OS and you're barely over one grand.

Then you can do so much more with that PC than you ever could with a game console. You can upgrade the PC, and then the infinite amount of other things you can do on there.


RE: Gotta love statistics...
By Pirks on 4/1/08, Rating: -1
RE: Gotta love statistics...
By borismkv on 4/1/2008 11:52:25 AM , Rating: 2
Look ma! A fanboy! For what you're going to pay for your Mac (with it's horribly underpowered/overpriced hardware and shiny factor) plus the XBox 360/PS3/Wii, and a TV/sound system to improve the experience, I can build a PC where I can do *everything* including watching TV. And for the most part, all the Console games on the market are FPSes, which I can't stand to play on a console because the controls are always much much slower than a Mouse and a Keyboard.

And Windows on a Mac. BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA! Oh that always makes me laugh. Windows on a Mac is about as stable as a table built with legs of Jello. And you have to literally spend 3000 dollars on a Mac to get anywhere close to the hardware I can toss into a $1000 PC. Get over yourself. The only thing your Mac is good for is giving you the illusion of self-superiority because your entire self worth is build around feeling like you're better than everyone else. Funny thing is, you're not.


RE: Gotta love statistics...
By Pirks on 4/1/08, Rating: -1
RE: Gotta love statistics...
By StevoLincolnite on 4/1/2008 4:11:10 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Yeah, PC is universal but it's too complex for most people. Macs are simple, less universal devices, but they win users precisely because of this simplicity. Not many average people liking PC mouse/keyboard games, but a lot of them loving to sit on a couch with a gamepad and enjoying some 3D beauty of Uncharted on PS3 or something, which you PC guys will never get. Crysis is being ported to consoles, so console/Mac crowd will play it, but you PC people can forget about Uncharted and The Darkness, this great stuff in not made for you, unfortunately.


Yes the PC is universal, and no it isn't to complex for most people, I got my granny up and running on a Pentium 3 with Windows XP playing Puzzle games (Popcap and Gamehouse)

And Crysis is not being ported to consoles, the "Engine" is being ported to consoles, not the actual game, most people fail to realize this point, and Crytek have said the same thing that Crysis will never been on consoles.
So it seems Crysis isn't made for you, nor is 30 odd years of PC gaming.

quote:
What a dumb fanatic you are :))) You seriously think you can assemble your own $1000 PC that can be as good as $3000 Mac Pro??? BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA!


The great thing about the PC is user customization of the hardware, If you shop smart enough, or buy the parts second hand from a flea market, you could build a $1000 dollar PC that will out-perform the Mac Pro, thats one of the PC's highlights.

And did I forget PC's have more upgrade options than a Mac?
And they are cheaper as well?

quote:
Tell that fanatical crap to a guy who haven't just spent several hour fighting braindead moronic Vista UAC and Windows Defender. I've got enough of your cheapo PC/Vista experience, thank you, so I'm gonna pass on your stupid zealot lies.


Those features can be disabled, thus if you are having issues with it, it's your own fault, there are other choices in the PC market other than Windows Vista, like:

- Linux.
- Windows XP
- Windows 98 Modded with XP like compatability.
- Windows Vista
- Windows 2000
- The list goes on...

Hows about, you don't like any of the above alternatives, you could always make your own based on the Linux operating system, Try doing that to a Mac OS.


RE: Gotta love statistics...
By Pirks on 4/1/08, Rating: -1
RE: Gotta love statistics...
By borismkv on 4/1/2008 6:26:48 PM , Rating: 3
"
quote:
Since when inferior hardware was more expensive? Of course PCs are cheaper when their hardware is worse.


Prove it. I can prove the opposite. It fact, many of the components used in Apple's computers are from budget manufacturers. The motherboard are Intel. The exact same as you can buy for a PC. The memory is Low-mid quality. The Hard-drives have historically come from budget companies like Maxtor and Quantum. Apple was recently sued for the quality of their displays, which were incapable of actually displaying the number of colors they advertised. I've heard many Apple people admit that the quality of Apple's monitors are equivalent to Dell's high-end monitors. Dell's High-end is basically the middle of the road when it comes to quality.

quote:
Why would anyone want to do that with a consumer oriented OS? Consumer OS like Mac OS was not designed for the end users to tinker with. It's there to just work out of the box with as small maintenance as possible.


And you can only do so much with it right out of the box without having to do a butt load of research. You cannot easily run a business with a Mac, since all major Accounting software is designed for PCs, and the Mac versions of these software suites are horribly crippled to comply with Apple's third party software requirements. The Mac is designed for the *less* than average consumer who uses their computer to surf the web, maybe listen to music, and *maybe* do some word processing. The average consumer uses their computer for much more than that. Home Accounting, Photo management, simple gaming (name one person that has never wasted time with Solitaire on their computer), and many other things. The "average consumer" as you put it cannot possibly switch to an Apple because, quite simply, they won't know how to get it to do what they want. The average consumer does not have the time or interest to learn a new operating system. The average consumer does not have the money to find someone to figure out how to get their highly important files from their current PC to their new Mac. So the *average* consumer will probably never accept the Mac until it becomes even *more* like Windows. As I mentioned earlier, the vast majority of new Mac buyers actually bought it because they liked the way they looked, and then decided to install Windows on them. Every Mac with Windows on it is a HUGE point in my fanatical side of the scoreboard.

Oh...and RO*T*FLMAO?!?!?! Noob.


RE: Gotta love statistics...
By Pirks on 4/1/08, Rating: 0
RE: Gotta love statistics...
By borismkv on 4/1/2008 11:16:31 PM , Rating: 2
Dude...you're getting hysterical. Calm down. You're only proving yourself more stupid. Go get yourself a triple mocha latte or whatever the hell you spend 50 dollars on every morning, take a few prozac, snuggle up in your 500 dollar turtle neck sweater and stop trying to convince actual hardware people that your "My first computer" garbage is worth anything. And Apple's getting market share! OMG! They have a whole 14% of the US market! Wow. That's amazing. And that's just laptops. Desktops they're at...what...7%? 8? Pah. It'll take Apple about 20 years to start making even a remote dent in the PC market. Grow up.


RE: Gotta love statistics...
By Pirks on 4/2/08, Rating: 0
RE: Gotta love statistics...
By StevoLincolnite on 4/2/2008 1:05:32 AM , Rating: 2
Why on earth would you pay that much for a CPU, and only have barely an acceptable gaming card for that price? I don't get it, get something like the 8800GT or a 3870 and whack in a Q6600 and you are all set, much better price and much better performance for things that a mac cannot do - Play Crysis.


RE: Gotta love statistics...
By Pirks on 4/2/08, Rating: 0
RE: Gotta love statistics...
By Pirks on 4/1/08, Rating: 0
RE: Gotta love statistics...
By borismkv on 4/1/2008 11:04:13 PM , Rating: 2
Aaaaand you just proved you can't read. I quoted your statement that a 1000 dollar PC would have parts there were inferior to a comparable Mac. To which I responded stating manufacturers of Apple hardware. None of which are considered high end in any way, thus shooting down your "Macs have higher quality parts" BS. Congratulations. You're continuing to prove your complete stupidity.

And I can most certainly build a PC for 1000 dollars that beats the living bloody hell out of the slowest Mac pro on the market (The one with only one quad core Xeon...the one that costs me about 300 dollars to get). And I can even configure that computer, whose base price is about 2500 dollars, to cost 3000 dollars by doubling the RAM...for 500 bucks. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! What a freakin rip off.

Go back to school, quit living off mom and dad's money, get a real job, and quit trying to prove that you're better than everyone else, cause frankly, you're just proving you're a moron at this point.


RE: Gotta love statistics...
By Pirks on 4/2/2008 2:13:59 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
thus shooting down your "Macs have higher quality parts"
That's impossible to shut down, just look at Mac hardware - ethernet is the best, always 1 gigabit, there's always latest bluetooth 2.0 in there, the wireless is always the best, it's 802.11n, the CPUs are the top of the crop from intel 45nm C2D line, up to 3.2 GHz quad-core Xeons, HDDs are top of the crop 15000 RPM ones, memory is top of the line 800 MHz DDR2 ECC, video cards are up to NVIDIA Quadro FX 5600 1.5GB Stereo 3D, and all the rest is top of the crop - fiberoptics backlit keyboards, LED backlit LCDs and so on. You can't even DREAM about this kind of stuff jerking off your cheapo $1000 dustbox, haha. Just get over it man, there are people that can afford quality stuff, and you just can't. So what? Just admit it and keep going, why are you so reserved and nervous about it? ;-)
quote:
I can most certainly build a PC for 1000 dollars that beats the living bloody hell out of the slowest Mac pro on the market
Oh yeah? Oh really??!! And you can easily stick a couple of 3.2 GHz 45nm quad cores in there to make it EIGHT PROCESSOR machine like you can do with Mac Pro? And you can stick 32 GB of DDR2-800 ECC RAM in there just like you can do with Mac Pro? Come ooon! Cut this crap already!! Please stop it, I'm dying from laugh here :))))

The little $1000 POS box that "could"... ahahahaahhaaahahaaa... :))) Great, thanks, it was a good one

What's up next in your performance, my lovely Wintel clown? ;-) I like your jokes, keep it going!


RE: Gotta love statistics...
By StevoLincolnite on 4/1/08, Rating: 0
RE: Gotta love statistics...
By Pirks on 4/2/08, Rating: 0
RE: Gotta love statistics...
By jlips6 on 4/2/2008 7:56:44 PM , Rating: 2
if we wanted the parts you talk about any pc user could order them without the apple mark-up. That's the argument you're ineffectively trying to combat. So the high end and elite parts of your mac are also PC parts, that we can get without the apple mark-up. And while it is an indicator, price alone does not determine the actual effectiveness of a part, or the computer as a whole.

I recall you using ineffective car analogy's before, do you?
Don't use them again. They don't work well for you.


RE: Gotta love statistics...
By Pirks on 4/2/2008 11:34:37 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
any pc user could order them without the apple mark-up
What "apple mark-up"? There is no such thing as Apple mark-up. Try to assemble an exact clone of the Mac Pro, add retail Mac OS X to it and you get the same price as Apple's.


RE: Gotta love statistics...
By jlips6 on 4/3/2008 11:36:58 AM , Rating: 2
I don't need the apple OS. I can save $150 just by not buying a operating system I don't want or need and getting ubuntu for free. And if you look at many of the specs on macintosh products, you will find signifigant differences between the price of the computer, and the price of similarly configured alternative brands. Want some figures? Or will you go on a rant on how that's legitimized by apple's "superior products?"


RE: Gotta love statistics...
By Pirks on 4/3/2008 5:06:01 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Want some figures?
How about comparing octo-core Dell Precision versus similarly configured Mac Pro? Octo-core means eight processor cores. Two quad-core Xeons, to be precise.


RE: Gotta love statistics...
By jlips6 on 4/3/2008 10:19:05 PM , Rating: 2
How about I don't compare what you want me to compare it to so you can win this stupid argument, or how about I compare it to the best option, and give an actual answer instead of your in-my-head fantasy?

These are the computers at their starting prices.

Mac pro.
2 4core 2.8GHz intel xeon processors. 12 mb cache
2GB RAM at 800 MHz bus speed with 4-dimms
1 320 GB 7200 rpms hard drive with 3GB ATA
Dual link ATI radeon HD 2600 256mb. (512mb total)
No Screen
No Wireless card
Apple mighty mouse
Apple keyboard
No software
No protection plan
total price: $2799.00

Now for the dell

XPS 720 H2C
2 intel quad cores, 3.67GHz each. 8mb cache
2GB RAM at 1066 MHz bus speed with 2-dimms
Dual nVidia Geforce 8800 512 MB. (1 GB total.)
500 GB 7200 RPM's hard drive 3GB/sec Sata 16mb cache
No screen
unknown wireless card (most likely not included.)
Dell keyboard
Dell optical mouse
15 months trend micro security
microsoft works 9
1 year in home warranty. Parts + labor. 24/7 call number. ( I probably shouldn't mention the phone number though. It admittedly sucks.)
3GB online backup for 1 year
total price: $2949.00

Price difference is exactly $150
What do you get for the extra $150?
better processors. Better ram. Better graphics cards. Better hard drive. Better warranty. (It has a warranty.) More included software (microsoft works.) 3GB of online backup storage for a year.

If I actually needed all this power I would take the dell.


RE: Gotta love statistics...
By Pirks on 4/4/2008 2:56:47 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
XPS 720 H2C 2 intel quad cores, 3.67GHz each. 8mb cache
TWO intel quad cores??? There's just ONE quad core CPU in that machine!

I caught ya lying again fanboy, now whatcha gonna do next, huh? ;-)

They try to compare 4 core dell crap with 8 core mac pro... jeez you zealots are so stupid... if you stopped lying all the time in your posts it'd be so much more interesting to talk to ya guys


RE: Gotta love statistics...
By jlips6 on 4/4/2008 5:02:40 PM , Rating: 2
lying fanboy eh?

wrong on two parts.

1. My techie friend who has a machine with two quad cores can confirm what you are calling fiction, as fact. You know didly squat.

2. Want to know all the OS's that run in my houshold?
Windows vista
Windows 2000
Ubuntu
Osx lepord.
Osx tiger
2 versions of mac OS 9.4
I use all of these OS's, although not all with the same frequency.
Please pirks, why don't you just shut up.


RE: Gotta love statistics...
By Pirks on 4/4/2008 6:18:07 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
My techie friend who has a machine with two quad cores can confirm what you are calling fiction, as fact. You know didly squat
Alright, let's exchange solid arguments then. Here's a creenshot that proves your Dell XPS 720 H2C has only ONE quad-core CPU: http://download.yousendit.com/638025B14671577B the file is called dell_xps.png on that page, its size is 170 kilobytes, everyone can download it and see that I'm telling the truth, and you're lying.

This is the screenshot that I just made fron the dell.com site, and it clearly shows that this Dell XPS 720 H2C machine has only ONE quad-core CPU factory overclocked to 3.67 GHz.

Now do YOU have ANYTHING to prove the opposite? I have at least this MATERIAL proof, care to give me yours?

I'm sorry, but I considered you a liar because of the stuff that dell.com tells me. Dell tells me this machine has just one CPU, how can you prove that Dell is LYING and you are telling the truth?

I'm waiting for a decent proof, anything besides just your bare words.

I proved my argument, now it's your turn.


RE: Gotta love statistics...
By jlips6 on 4/4/2008 6:53:25 PM , Rating: 2
I don't know why you had to send a screenshot.
http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx...
here's a link if you don't want to download a photoshop file. Why photoshop? I don't know.

All that aside, It appears you were right. After a confirmation with my friend, it would seem that he has done some modifications to his computer. I probably should have asked him beforehand. My bad. :p He has a HP mt9000t.

who would've thought that you would be right for once? I guess that makes us 1 and 3 on this forum.


RE: Gotta love statistics...
By Pirks on 4/4/2008 9:28:27 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
who would've thought that you would be right for once?
Hehe :) I just know the stuff I'm talking about since I'm doing work on both Windows and Mac OS X platforms, and I have a bunch of people owning a lot of Apple hardware around me (although I own only Dell stuff, hehe :)

Why people wanna lie so much when they start bashing Apple? I dunno, I guess they just want Apple stuff so much subconsciously that they just can't stop swearing and spewing lies around. Oh well.

I don't even have to lie like many stupid Windows zealots here if I wanna bash Apple, it's actually really easy to bash them without even a hint of lies and fanboyism, but most Wintel morons here are too dumb to realize that ;-)


RE: Gotta love statistics...
By jlips6 on 4/4/2008 10:48:00 PM , Rating: 2
there is a difference between lies and misinformation.
My conversation with my buddy took place over AIM. It went somewhat like this:
"Hey qq. (not real name but close enough)So your new computer has a quad core? What are you going to use 4 core's for?"
"8 cores. My core 2 quad is actually 2 quad core processors."
"For real? That's new to me."
"Me too. how's your sister?"


So, in order to rectify my mistake, (it was my fault for not researching my info enough.) I have put together a list of parts for a PC that will run xbuntu with the same (apr.) specs.

2 xeon processors 3.2 GHz,$1056 http://www.nextag.com/HP-Server-Accessori-Intel-52...

Corsair dominator ram. 2GB at 1066. $89.00 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N8...

MSI NX8800GT 512Mb Geforce graphics card. $209.99
http://www.nextag.com/Msi-NX8800GT512MOC-GeForce-8...

Creative Sound Blaster SB0570. $29.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N8...

700 watt GamexStream power supply. $109.99
http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/productdetail.a...

X2 Seagate Barracuda hard drive. 250GB at 72,000 rpms each. $129.98
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N8...

APEVIA X-JUPITER-JR S-Type X-JPJST-BK Black SECC Steel Chassis ATX Mid Tower Computer Case. $74.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N8...

Liteon 20x optical drive. $23.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N8...

Microsoft mouse + keyboard $21.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N8...

motherboard S5000PAL server board. $628.49
http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B000H5J47I?...

operating system: xbuntu $0.00 (best version of linux for a compy this powerful.)

Total price: $2374.41

total specs:
2 xeon 3.2GHz processors with 12mb cache
2GB ram at 1066 mhz
512mb Graphics card
500GB of storage at 7,200 rpms.
No screen
No additional software
keyboard
mouse
warranty's on some individual parts, not entire system.

I have included links for every individual site I got these parts from. Incidentally, if you ever need parts in the future, nextag is much cheaper than newegg, but not as easy to browse. I use a combination of the two.

It's much cheaper, and the processors actually run at 3.2GHz instead of 2.8 GHz per core, as opposed to the mac pro.
:)


RE: Gotta love statistics...
By Pirks on 4/5/08, Rating: 0
RE: Gotta love statistics...
By StevoLincolnite on 4/5/2008 5:10:48 PM , Rating: 2
Dude, give it a rest, no one cares about you're love affair with apple's over priced products, and lack of choices in hardware configurations, or even the decent choices of high-end 3D accelerators. (What was that? Several thousand dollar computer with ONLY a Radeon 2600XT or Geforce 8800GT? Where is SLI, and Crossfire, Or the 9800GX2 or even the 3870X2?) Get over it, we don't care.


RE: Gotta love statistics...
By Pirks on 4/5/2008 7:06:54 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
no one cares about your love affair with apple's over priced products
No one cares about stupid liars like jlips6 above who TWICE tried to sell me his absolutely stinky fanatical crap about Mac Pro being "overpriced" because jlips6 has absolutely NO IDEA about computer hardware - first he tries to sell me his bullcrap about Dell XPS 720 H2C which has TWICE LESS processor cores compared to Mac Pro for the same price, second attempt was trying to tell me THAT OLD MUSEUM CRAP Pentium 4 Netburst based Xeon from 2004 has ANYTHING to do with modern Xeons in Mac Pro.

I'm just teaching you some lessons, lamers. You scream in pain and try to wiggle around and escape my HARD FACTS, and I am methodically squash your lies because, unlike you, I know hardware specs and prices.
quote:
Get over it, we don't care.
Doh. You're saying this as if someone cares about dying PC gaming industry with studios moving to consoles in droves these days. Masturbate on your overpriced 3D SLI GTX XXX accelerators, while I will enjoy actual GAMES on Xbox 360 and Wii. To each his own. You losers want the latest fad in 3D hardware that nVidia marketing department is zombifying you with, and I don't give a damn about overpriced pieces of green logo'd plastic and silicon, I want my freakin GAMES, and all these great titles like The Darkness, Star Wars: The Force Unleashed, Uncharted, and many many others are coming ON CONSOLES, not on PC :P

Good luck with masturbating over your overpriced nVidia hardware, I'm way past this age, my dear fanatic teenagers :P


RE: Gotta love statistics...
By StevoLincolnite on 4/5/2008 7:55:56 PM , Rating: 2
Dude, Get over it, I don't care and start acting more mature and grown.

And just for you're information the Xeon (The ones based on the P6 Architecture, thus the Core 2 series) Does actually share some common ground with the Pentium 4 Processors.

They are:
1) The Front side bus technology.
2) The Advanced Tree Prediction.
3) 64 bit extensions.
4) Hyper Threading on some processors.
5) The implementation of SSE, SSE2, MMX etc.

All in all it's still the P6 architecture made almost 15 years ago.

So obviously you have no idea, really I don't care about the Mac's or you're delusional ideas that the PC is a dead platform and all that other jizz jazz you proclaim about, that everyone has been proclaiming about for the last 15 or so years with each new generation of Mac and consoles.

SO GET OVER IT!

Also some rules to replying to this message that will hopefully not make you look like an moron:

1) Quote paragraphs, not one liners where you can turn my story around, without actually displaying anything factual.

2) Car terminology's.

3) You're incompetents.

4) Discrimination.

5) Laughing like a School girl in a doll house.


RE: Gotta love statistics...
By Pirks on 4/5/2008 9:05:11 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
I don't care and start acting more mature
I'm more interested in a third attempt of jlips6 to lie to me about overpriced Apple hardware, than in your attempts to tell me something incomprehensible about P6 or whatever. So I'm waiting to see how jlips6 is going to continue to wiggle and jiggle around trying to find yet another excuse for his fanatical buddies to call Apple hardware "overpriced". I put carefully prepared trap here, and jlips6 has fallen into it twice already, so please Stevo, don't make noises around here, you can frighten him away now :-) I just wanna see how he's gonna fall into my trap one more time, it'll be so much fun watching that :))) I told him once to act HONESTLY and compare ANALOGOUS things, i.e. Mac Pro vs Dell Precision in our case, but he definitely knows the prices pretty well and so he's very afraid to reveal the truth here :)

With regards to your games stuff - I know there are much more interesting games on consoles these days so I don't really see any point in investing any money in 3D accelerators instead of console. Hence Mac wins because coupled with console it gives you much better experience (although for a slightly higher price if you compare it with absolutely crapocheapo low end PC)


By StevoLincolnite on 4/6/2008 6:06:00 PM , Rating: 2
There are no games on console that "Attracts me" the games I am waiting for are StarCraft and Spore, although Spore will be released on all platforms, it will have the graphical superiority on the PC.


RE: Gotta love statistics...
By jlips6 on 4/6/2008 10:59:13 PM , Rating: 2
here's a 3rd attempt. see if you can spot the lie. Take out the as you say, museum processors, add these.
http://www.nextag.com/Intel-QUAD-CORE-XEON-5727120...

price: $3128.29
mac equivelant: $3599.00

...
If you buy a computer from a company then it will be more expenxive than if you build it on your own. Dell, Mac, HP, there are no exceptions, unless you talk about laptops, which are more difficult to find parts for (Chassis, screen). Finding the right xeon processor was a bitch.


RE: Gotta love statistics...
By Pirks on 4/7/08, Rating: 0
RE: Gotta love statistics...
By jlips6 on 4/11/2008 10:28:19 PM , Rating: 1
well well well. I come back from a 4-day vacation in canada and what do I find when I come back? Bullshit, lies, and misdirection. Gonna take awhile to straighten all your shit out pirks.

And on a side note, why aren't you telling me to grow up stevo? It's only fair.

and FYI pirks, I am not trying to replicate a mac pro, I am trying to create a machine with equal or greater operational power for less than a comparable mac pro. (or about equal if the components are superior enough. give or take $100)

#1. about the hard drives. You are fantastic at skipping over details that don't suit you. If you actually bothered to look at the link, you would see the hard drive is half the price I put there. You would also notice that the specifications for the end were different from the individual hard drive. I wonder why this is... oh right, because there are 2 hard drives. Duh. that's 500GB at 7200 RPM's. That makes it better than your 320 GB. I wonder why you didn't mention that? </sarcasm>

#2 the ram. Pirks, you make me sad with your inadequate knowleadge. Why must I use your inferior, more expensive ram again? If you think that "fully buffered" actually means anything when you are inserting less than 8 sticks then think again. Fully buffered ram allows for more ram to be inserted at the cost of CAS latency. In other words, if you use it in small amounts, it will be inefficient and expensive. My ram has a better FSB, cost, and will work fine if I insert it at these specifications every other row. at high specs (using all 16 slots) I can get 32GB of FB-DIMM RAM for half the price they charge you.
http://www.provantage.com/kingston-kta-mp800k2-8g~... all in all, what are you thinking?

3: The chassis. Why should I use your chassis? Answer: I shouldn't. Apart from airflow and space, the only thing the chassis does is support your parts. Hell, If I took a couple of lucky charms boxes, some duct tape, an exacto knife, and ordered a couple of $20 fans, I could build a chassis to hold the parts. It wouldn't look good, but it wouldn't hinder my computer at all. I would also get some lucky charms. Does your chassis include lucky charms? No? Thought so.

4. Operating system. Pirks, have you ever used linux? It's an great operating system. Why do I have to use vista ultimate? Because you think that's the only comparable market equivelant to OSx 5.0? Bullshit.

5. power supply.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N8...
Oh. Look at that. a better power supply for $90 less. Huh. I wonder why you didn't go for the best deal? I had already included a power supply that was equivelant. Why do you have to throw it out and replace it with a more expensive one? Imagine my suprise.

6. Processors: Hey look pirks! the power magically dropped from 3GHz to 2.8GHz! Not that it matters. I can get a better deal from the 3GHz ones because the 2.8GHz processors are not as easily found. Not that it makes that much of a difference. Look at the results without the Pirks bullshit.

RESULTS:
(note, all superior parts are in bold.)
X2 2.8GHZ intel xeon quad core processors. $1440

2GB corsair dominator ram at 1066GHz. $89

MSI NX8800GT 512Mb Geforce graphics card. $209.99

Creative Sound Blaster SB0570. $29.99

Hiper 730 watt power supply $100

X2 Seagate Barracuda hard drive. 250GB at 72,000 rpms each. $129.98

Apevia Jupiter chassis. $75

Lite-on x20 optical drive $24

microsoft mouse + keyboard. $22

motherboard $628.49

Bluetooth + firewire $60

Total price: $2808.45
none of the pc parts are below the specs of the mac parts.

look, it's $9 more than the mac pro and all you get is a better hard drive, ram, and power supply. Oh wait! you said your version of the configured mac pro was $3000...

You know what pirks? if your still not satisfied, I can go back, get a fan or two (they cost a couple of bucks.) and then call my chassis superior because of enhanced airflow. You're just lucky I didn't bring out the lucky charms chassis argument for real. (not really.)


RE: Gotta love statistics...
By jlips6 on 4/12/2008 1:15:55 AM , Rating: 2
http://www.thenerds.net/KINGSTON_MEMORY.Kingston_V...
if you really want FB-DIMM RAM, have this X2
$122

FB-DIMM uses less pins on the motherboard because it uses serial instead of parralel connection. This supposedly increases speed and FSB because it can utilize multiple modules to increase it's FSB. So if I were to substitute the sticks in the Mac pro with this...
http://www.nextag.com/Kingston-ValueRAM-Memory-1-5...
X2 = $143
then the fsb would quadruple, making it far superior to the RAM that comes with the mac, not because of part specs, but because of multiple modules.
so if I am correct, and i substitute this for my corsair ram
that brings the price to $2862.45 on my Mac Pro equivelant, which is actually superior as opposed to your mac pro which you said was $3000.
If that $3000 was an error, you should fix it soon otherwise, enlighten me to how you got that figure.

However, it doesn't really matter at that point, because the FSB of the processor is only 1300, so that negates any higher FSB than 1300. Hence, the FSB doubling is essentially useless. So I can substitute in the cheaper FB-DIMM ram at $2841.45.

my sources
http://www.pcstats.com/articleview.cfm?articleID=1...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fully_Buffered_DIMM
http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/266


RE: Gotta love statistics...
By Pirks on 4/5/2008 9:18:11 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
And just for you're information the Xeon does actually share some common ground with the Pentium 4 Processors.
And just for your information, Stevo - jlips6 just tried to make equal two different processors - one with ONE core and the other with FOUR cores.

Are you even smart enough to undertsand that old single core Xeon is VERY different from the modern QUAD CORE Xeon?

Do you know numbers ONE and FOUR? DO YOU EVEN KNOW THESE NUMBERS ARE DIFFERENT?

I'm looking at you guys and more I talk to you the more I know you're just imbeciles or something.

'Cause if you are NOT imbecile you are NOT GOING TO TRY TO MAKE FOUR CORE XEON EQUAL TO ONE CORE XEON FORM THREE YEARS AGO!!!

Did you get that simple thing? Do you want me to explain in details WHY FOUR-CORE PROCESSOR IS VERY DIFFERENT FROM SINGLE-CORE ONE?


By StevoLincolnite on 4/6/2008 6:07:16 PM , Rating: 2
I don't care what someone tried to do to you, it's not my problem.

And you're missing my point on the whole thing, so there is no point in carrying it on, if you are to thick to realize.


RE: Gotta love statistics...
By jlips6 on 4/11/2008 10:30:22 PM , Rating: 2
dude, I think you are misunderstanding what we are trying to do here. We aren't trying to prove any points or anything. (or at least, I'm not.) We're just arguing for fun at this point. Don't mess it up for us.


RE: Gotta love statistics...
By jlips6 on 4/4/2008 5:09:13 PM , Rating: 2
and since the processors are made by the same company, and you are calling one crap I guess that means you think your xeon processors are crap too. Oh wait! the only different things about them is that the cache on the xeon is higher, and the speed on the quad is higher, as well as it's bus. Where does the difference that makes a quad core crap occur?


RE: Gotta love statistics...
By Pirks on 4/4/2008 6:32:17 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Where does the difference that makes a quad core crap occur?
The difference occurs when you try to compare 4 core Dell with 8 core Mac Pro. See my screenshot proof above.


RE: Gotta love statistics...
By jlips6 on 4/4/2008 6:55:40 PM , Rating: 2
the processors are the same. there is no 8-core processor, there are 2 4-core's.


RE: Gotta love statistics...
By nikon133 on 4/1/2008 4:37:12 PM , Rating: 1
Well, you can't play Crysis on consoles at all.

I did play it on AMD 64 X2 4200 with 8800GT and, while I had to settle for 1280*1200 (which is, coincidently, native resolution of my 19" screen) and DX9 high settings, it gave me great pleasure.

Which I would completely miss if relying exclusively on consoles for playing.

So your point is..?


RE: Gotta love statistics...
By therealnickdanger on 4/1/2008 8:30:01 AM , Rating: 1
Vista is a mess? Weird, I've been using it for over a year and haven't noticed...

quote:
Why would I need a cheap and fast PC if I have no comfort? What's the use for the hardware if the software is braindead dumb? Just look at goddamn stupid Vista, who wrote Vista's Windows Defender implementation? Who wrote UAC crap? These Microsoft idiots should be executed without a trial, or maybe thrown out on the street if I'm in a good mood...

Those are some comforting comments right there. You should definitely buy a Mac, then buy a Jetta and use it to drive to a psychiatrist (or a priest) and sort out your anger.


RE: Gotta love statistics...
By Pirks on 4/1/08, Rating: -1
RE: Gotta love statistics...
By jlips6 on 4/1/2008 11:27:40 AM , Rating: 2
I use vista, and it never asks me that crap. Maybe if you are as knowleadgable about vista as you sound, you could just turn that function off. It takes like 30 seconds. Come on, get a real argument.


RE: Gotta love statistics...
By Pirks on 4/1/08, Rating: -1
RE: Gotta love statistics...
By borismkv on 4/1/2008 12:22:50 PM , Rating: 2
"why the heck Microsoft puts some junk functionality in Vista that users should bother to turn off to get work done?"

And Apple doesn't do this? Come on, you have to put in your password every time you install anything. The reason Microsoft put it in there was to increase security. Computer security is, quite simply, a matter of managing accessibility, the more secure a computer is, the less accessible it is. The only reason Apples are secure is because you can't dig into the OS to do anything. People turn off UAC because Microsoft made a mistake and made it far too Zealous. But they also put in an option to turn off that level of security. Something Apple would never do in a million years, because Apple doesn't want you to realize just how unstable their OS is. Because if you could do everything I do on my PC with your Mac, it would crash about two or three times a day. As for my PC, it hasn't crashed in about...Hell. I haven't had a crash in about a month or so. And I use my computer about 10 hours a day.


RE: Gotta love statistics...
By Pirks on 4/1/08, Rating: -1
RE: Gotta love statistics...
By therealnickdanger on 4/1/2008 4:01:01 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
an app like RivaTuner that requires admin rights,

LOL

You're a funny guy. I've been using Vista since the 2006 Beta WITH RivaTuner for strapping drivers, over-clocking, and system monitoring. I haven't disabled UAC and it never popped up for me. You must have done something wrong. It's OK to admit you're wrong, you know. You'll actually get MORE respect around here.

If, for some reason, I used an application daily that prompted the UAC for every operation (like one you claim exists), then I would just turn UAC off and life would move forward as normal as if I were using XP. However, I haven't had any reason to turn it off in any of the audio/video/photo editing suites I use; P2P apps, hacked drivers, games, drafting, modeling, etc. I'll help you configure your Vista install if you want, it's clear you don't know how to do it.


RE: Gotta love statistics...
By Pirks on 4/1/2008 8:02:40 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
You're a funny guy
Not only me! Read this and educate yourself please: http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=251877

I wish I could admit I'm wrong, but so far I could not find any way to prove me wrong, and I tried hard. You just try to install latest RivaTuner in Vista, and put it in autostart - and you get these annoying Windows Defender popups every time you boot Vista and log into your account there.

The fact that you disabled Windows Defender does not change anything, 'cause I don't want to disable it, I want only to configure it. I want it to work but not in a such annoying and obtrusive way it works now. But it's impossible to do it! Here's a proof: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Defender

"Windows Defender in Windows Vista automatically blocks all startup items that require administrator privileges to run. There is no known easy way to automatically unblock these items. This automatic blocking is related to the UAC, and requires the user to manually run each of these startup items each time they log in."
quote:
I'll help you configure your Vista install if you want, it's clear you don't know how to do it
Nobody can help it. I've been asking this question about stupid non-configurable Windows Defender and nobody answered. They only say "disable it". But I do not want to disable it, I want it to keep working, I just want to configure it, to force it to ignore just this one single app I put in autostart.

Every Windows fanatic immediately shut up after getting this question from me, and you will follow the rest.

You're just like all of them, nothing interesting. No arguments and no substantial answers. Just babbling.


RE: Gotta love statistics...
By borismkv on 4/1/2008 4:25:16 PM , Rating: 2
I think it's hilarious that you're calling us Windows guys zealots when you're the one going absolute ape-snot over this. I *have* had to work with Vista. A lot. I'm a computer technician. I get paid to fix problems with Vista, XP, and even *gasp* OS X. I've worked in the IT Industry for 12 years. I've worked with a lot of computer techs. And you know what, the ones that knew the absolute least about computers were the ones that grew up on Macs. You're a very obvious example of this.

Here's what really makes me laugh about you. You keep calling us Wintel fanboys. You do realize that half of that is "Intel" which is now the hardware that runs Apples, right? The only reason Apples are getting popular is that they run on PC hardware. There is no hardware difference between your computer and mine. The only difference is the OS. And let's face it. The droves of people switching to Macs are also using them to run Windows.

As for innovation. Apple hasn't change the design of their laptops in about 6 years. They've only made modifications to their all-in-one desktop system for the past 10 years. The case for the Mac Pro has been the *exact same* since the G5. That's 5 years with the exact same design. And OS X has been around for longer than Windows XP. The only "Innovations" they've made have been small upgrades that mimic functions that have been around in XP for years. And let's not forget about OS X server. I've had to work with this OS for quite a while. It is *TERRIBLE*. I've never seen so many debilitating software bugs in my entire life. The last company I worked for is probably going to get sued into destruction because of the OS X server they installed for one company.

The only thing you're proving with your ranting and raving about Wintel Fanatics is that you're a delusional, self-important windbag who knows absolutely nothing about computers. You're not making anyone think that you're position is accurate. You've not given any more than anecdotal evidence to support your views. And what's worse, you've committed the cardinal sin of debate. You lost your temper and started calling people names. Good job.


RE: Gotta love statistics...
By Pirks on 4/1/2008 8:38:35 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
You do realize that half of that is "Intel" which is now the hardware that runs Apples, right?
Learn to understand the difference between Intel and Wintel.
quote:
The droves of people switching to Macs are also using them to run Windows
And the web usage/marketshare graphs tell the opposite: the Mac market share slowly grows -> http://marketshare.hitslink.com/report.aspx?qprid=... - congrats Mr. Microsloth Fanboy, your attempt at pushing lies easily stopped in its tracks by market share reports. Spread your lies to other gullible fanatics like you who are not smart enough to look at web usage/marketshare graphs.
quote:
Apple hasn't change the design of their laptops in about 6 years
Why would they change it if they are the best in laptop design? There were no really successful attempts to dethrone their flagship notebook for example - MacBook Pro 17", it still remains the thinnest lightest most ergonomical 17" notebook in history, why should Apple bother with redesign of their classic when nobody can even touch it? I think they do the right thing. Do not touch the king of the notebooks since it's perfect as it is. It's only dells of the world who have to constantly change their designs in futile attempts to make them to look and feel as gorgeous and FUNCTIONAL AND ERGONOMIC as MacBook Pro line.

Same is true for iMacs, why changing classic if nobody still can't touch it. Again, don't touch the king. Same is true for Mac Mini and Mac Pro as well, in fact for everything Mac that Apple does. Why change design if it is the best already? Just keep it best as it is now and introduce slow evolutional changes. They are 100% right following that route.

BTW your stupid lies about Apple notebooks not changing and such are really funny if you consider MacBook Air. You can't even imagine how idiotic your lies look in this context :))))) Hahahaaaa
quote:
they've made have been small upgrades that mimic functions that have been around in XP for years
Have you seen this interesting piece -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TaIUkwPybtM <- this will teach you a lesson, fanboy.
quote:
is probably going to get sued into destruction
That'll be peanuts compared to what MS will pay to defrauded consumers in the infamous "Vista Capable" conumer fraud case.
quote:
The only thing you're proving with your ranting and raving
Blah blah... I'm just making fun of you :P Don't you understand? I'm asking you tricky questions about Windows Defender or about $1000 PC stuff, and you idiots always fall into my trap, because you have no brains. You cannot compare newegg prices with Apple prices. You cannot realize simple things about Windows Defender, the simple things that are described not only in Wikipedia, but EVEN IN THE VISTA SYSTEM HELP REFERENCE ITSELF! If you were not so idiotic with your pathetic whininig and babbling, coupled with inability to answer my tricky test questions - I wouldn't spend so much time here, but you fanatics are soo funny :)) Thanks for a nice entertainment today!


RE: Gotta love statistics...
By borismkv on 4/2/2008 1:16:18 AM , Rating: 2
pppppfffpfppfpttt! BAAHAHAHAHAHA! 1% market share in a year. That's awesome. I was wrong. It'll take 43 years for Apple to break even. Yep. Sure is a good computer. Gimme a break, jackass. We PC guys won a huge victory when Apple switched to Intel and all of a sudden their computers were advertised as being 4 times faster. We won another victory when "our" OS started popping up on Macs all over the place. And your market share research garbage doesn't really show how many Macs have Windows installed on them. Of the hundred or so Macs I've worked on since Apple switched to Intel, about 90% of them had Windows on them.

Just for info, "Wintel" is the term most used by fanatical, uninformed, propaganda filled, backwards Apple fanboys to attempt to denigrate PC users. Much like people in gradeschool do when someone does something they don't like. It was a combination of Windows and Intel. Because the computers that Apple lovers hated was built on those two things. Well, now you've got all that PC hardware in your computers and it's all good. Because now they're actually comparable to PCs in performance. I bet the majority of technically minded Apple users who peruse this board are rolling their eyes out of their sockets every time you use that term. The fact that you're stupid enough to use it after the Apple/Intel deal just proves your own inability to "Get a clue."

But hey, we all know the truth about you. You're nothing more than an idiotic troll. Hell. I just have to look at your rating history to see that. So, I'm not gonna feed you anymore. Have a nice day.


RE: Gotta love statistics...
By Pirks on 4/2/2008 3:11:03 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
1% market share in a year
You zealots never learn that 1% in PREMIUM ELITE HIGH-PROFIT HARDWARE market is worth in money terms about 10% in your cheapo crapo budget-Dell-like-PC market.
quote:
And your market share research garbage doesn't really show
It shows how Mac OS X market share grows and this is more than enough to make fun of you :P I don't care much about Mac hardware, the OS is what matters the most. It's kicking fat ugly Windows ass and we consumers and PC guys indeed are going to benefit from that A LOT! This is the part where I completely agree with you.

And yeah, I already know what Wintel is, thank you. You just wasted your time typing that part :-)


RE: Gotta love statistics...
By jlips6 on 4/1/2008 4:56:08 PM , Rating: 1
if you hate it SO MUCH, go in to control panel, click user accounts, and there is a button that actually says: turn user account control on or off. Click on that. If you can't figure out what next to do, you need some real help.

Quote:
Because you never install the apps that require admin rights to launch and also put themselves in autostart in order to launch every time vista boots.

0_o
... What the hell are you talking about? You have no idea what I do or don't do on my computer (unless you are a lot more creepy than you appear.)and you should not assume that other people are plagued by problems you have caused by your own inadequate knowledge. I do install those applications, and they work fine, with no pop-ups.


RE: Gotta love statistics...
By Pirks on 4/1/2008 8:53:00 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
turn user account control on or off. Click on that
I do not want to turn UAC off completely. I just want to configure it to make it less annoying.
quote:
you should not assume that other people are plagued by problems you have caused by your own inadequate knowledge
I already posted a couple of links here, one from wikipedia, and the other from rivatuner forum, proving that the problem I encountered is a common one, not just mine. So I proved that your babbling is worthless, you have no arguments to support it, hence you are a fanatic and nothing more.

When you have serious arguments/links proving your experience - come back and we'll talk again.


RE: Gotta love statistics...
By jlips6 on 4/2/2008 7:26:58 PM , Rating: 2
lol, im a fanatic? :)
you also posted forums to rivatuner after i told you wikipedia could be edited. Fancy that. Oh, and by the way, if you have a 3rd party piece of software that is giving you problems, it's not the OS's fault.

So you want to configure UAC? Why didn't you say so earlier? Oh, and FYI, UAC stands for user account control, your problem is with windows defender, which is switched off when UAC is. So you don't want to edit UAC, you want to edit defender, which can probably be done with the windows defender button in the control panel. Never needed to do that myself frankly. I just say: if it's a hassle, don't use it. I know if something has the potential to be hazardous. Don't answer with some nonsense about wanting to NOT HAVE IT FREAKIN GIVE ME POPUPS EVERY TIME I OPEN RIVATUNER!! :( ROTFLMAO, MORE EXCESSIVE AND INCORRECT USES OF AIMTALK ALL IN CAPITALS WITH SMILY FACES THAT HAVE TOO MANY MOUTHS!!!!!

I don't need links to "prove my experience." I prove my knowledge with logical arguments that don't make people feel like they're drowning in a sea of capital letters and punctuation. And they use facts that aren't twisted, unaccurate, completely biased, or later changed to say "That's not what I was saying!"

Carefully read this over and think of a logical, uncapitalized response that will give you some sort of credibility and or an actual argument. When you do that, we may not give you so much flak. You had a good post at the very bottom of the forum. I know you can do it again. Please?


RE: Gotta love statistics...
By Pirks on 4/2/2008 9:18:09 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
which can probably be done with the windows defender button in the control panel. Never needed to do that myself frankly
I tried it and I know it's impossible to configure Windows Defender the way I want, so that it ignores just this one particular application in autostart.

The stupidity of MS UI designers who decided that it's okay for the user to press annoying "accept" button every time Vista boots is the reason I wanted to execute these bastards.

Stupid MS UI designers must be severely punished because they made a very annoying user interface which is impossible to configure. Read it again and try to understand: the user interface is very annoying and there is nothing the user can do about it, because stupid MS UI designers made Windows Defender inflexible and not configurable with regard to applications in autostart folder.

Did I make myself clear?

Do you have any additional questions about this problem?