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Apple's MacBook Air is carving out its own place in the MacBook family.  (Source: Reuters)
Notebook sales lead the charge in a great month for Apple

Apple appears to be on a roll these days. The company in recent years has become largely identified by its popular iPod music players. The iPod shuffle, iPod Nano, iPod Classic and iPod touch dominate the music player market and the iTunes is second only to Wal-Mart in overall U.S. music sales.

Throw in the iPhone as Apple's "halo" device, and the Cupertino, California-based company and its marketing efforts are a force to be reckoned with. Luckily for Apple, its success on the digital player and digital music fronts is transferring greatly to its computing products according to Apple Insider.

Market research firm NPD showed that Apple commanded just 9% of the retail U.S. PC market with regards to sales during February 2007 -- this also translated to a 16% dollar share. However, February 2008 saw those figures rise to 14% and 25% respectively.

Sales of Apple notebooks and desktops grew by 64% and 55% respectively while revenues for each segment grew by 67% and 68% respectively.

While iPod and iPhone crossover sales are likely adding to Apple's bottom line, Pacific Crest Securities analyst Andy Hargreaves notes that Apple's recently launched MacBook Air is building a base of its own rather than encroaching on existing notebook product lines.

"MacBook Air sales appear to be additive to total sales, rather than replacing MacBook Pro sales," said Hargreaves. "We believe a new set of corporate customers make up a meaningful portion of MacBook Air buyers."

The NDP data also showed that the overall U.S. PC market is doing quite well -- if you're only looking at notebook sales and revenue. Notebooks outpaced desktops in sales in the consumer space during 2007, and the gap will likely widen during 2008 -- notebook sales are expected to reach 66% of the overall PC market by 2011.

The numbers show that this forecast is slowly moving into reality as overall retail notebook sales were up 20% during February while revenues from notebooks jumped 11%. In comparison, retail desktop sales slumped by 5% while revenues dropped 2%.



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Corporate Cusomters?
By DASQ on 3/18/2008 1:12:10 PM , Rating: 5
What IT department in their right minds would want to support the MacBook Air?




RE: Corporate Cusomters?
By SectionEight on 3/18/2008 1:17:20 PM , Rating: 5
My guess is that Apple is applying their new guidelines for defining corporate customers: otherwise-unemployed, aspiring artists, musicians, and writers now count as 'corporate consumers'.


RE: Corporate Cusomters?
By AToZKillin on 3/18/2008 3:26:50 PM , Rating: 4
HAHA! Would give you a 6 if I could, but instead I'll give you props. So very true. My aspiring artist cousin just got one. And she is unemployed and also writes! If only she could play music as well, but I opted not to teach her in fear of her becoming too corporate.


RE: Corporate Cusomters?
By OblivionMage on 3/18/2008 3:45:21 PM , Rating: 3
Its worth a six.

*Everyone* I know who is 'apple obsessed' fits very nicely into that category it seems.


RE: Corporate Cusomters?
By JoshuaBuss on 3/18/2008 3:50:46 PM , Rating: 2
it sucks that if i actually got a macbook pro (which i think is a pretty nice machine all things considered) i'd be instantly associated with a group of people i despise.


RE: Corporate Cusomters?
By michael2k on 3/18/2008 4:40:41 PM , Rating: 2
It's always been my view too.

Love the OS, love the hardware, hate the people.

What can you do? I still buy them because it's more important to have the right gear than hang out with the right crowd. I've never been one for elitism.


RE: Corporate Cusomters?
By headbox on 3/18/2008 7:01:01 PM , Rating: 4
So you're saying you love Microsoft people? As if being a Bill Gates fanboi is somehow better? It's too bad that your computing experience is based on stereotypes you don't like, or which fan club you subscribe to.


RE: Corporate Cusomters?
By JoshuaBuss on 3/19/2008 1:37:38 AM , Rating: 2
i've never bought a microsoft product in my life.. and i only use windows when i have to :)


RE: Corporate Cusomters?
By afkrotch on 3/19/2008 5:30:20 AM , Rating: 3
Is there such a thing as "Microsoft ppl?" There's ppl that use Microsoft simply cause that's what their machines had.

Majority of Apple/OSX users know what they are getting and specifically aimed at getting it. I use Windows simply cause I have no other alternatives, due to me playing games that aren't supported under other OS's or play like crap through virtual pc software. Spending $500+ dollars on a video card to get crap framerates is not what I enjoy doing.


RE: Corporate Cusomters?
By msheredy on 3/18/2008 7:49:19 PM , Rating: 3
My God, If you want one just get one. Jeez. Talk about being a sheep.


RE: Corporate Cusomters?
By teng029 on 3/18/2008 9:32:12 PM , Rating: 3
that has to be the dumbest thing i've read today. i've heard all kinds of reasons for not buying a mac, but guilt by association??


RE: Corporate Cusomters?
By joemoedee on 3/19/2008 11:38:10 AM , Rating: 3
quote:
it sucks that if i actually got a macbook pro (which i think is a pretty nice machine all things considered) i'd be instantly associated with a group of people i despise.


<highschoolgirl>

... Like, ohmygod, I was totally going to get one of those macbooks but I saw Katie with one on her myspace and she's just a total skank so I like won't get one of those cause then I'll be just like her and like, ewww, she's gross she totally went out with the whole wrestling team and she like soooo went all the way with like, half of them and she also said all these nasty things about heather on her myspace like cmon heather is sooo much the better person than katie ever could be and she just has to say those things because shes jealous that heather is my bff...

</highschoolgirl>

I'm sorry I couldn't mis-spell enough to be fully believable, but you get the point. I hope.


RE: Corporate Cusomters?
By headbox on 3/18/08, Rating: 0
RE: Corporate Cusomters?
By afkrotch on 3/19/2008 5:36:15 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
"We believe a new set of corporate customers make up a meaningful portion of MacBook Air buyers."


How much of that has been made on a MacBook Air?

Reading comprehension. It's a wonderful thing.


RE: Corporate Cusomters?
By wordsworm on 3/18/2008 11:26:51 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
My guess is that Apple is applying their new guidelines for defining corporate customers: otherwise-unemployed, aspiring artists, musicians, and writers now count as 'corporate consumers'.


Obviously you've never been in journalism, any kind of publishing, or even a digital music studio. If you had, you'd realize that Apple has dominated this field for a long time, and it's only in the last few years that PC has actually been able to compete.

Anyways, so what if some unemployed aspiring artists like Macs? Are you jealous that JK Rowling now makes more in the time it takes to sneeze and say 'bless-you' than you do in a year? Damned unemployed artists becoming billionaires is your real problem. Admit it.

The only reason the only people you know who use Macs are unemployed artists is because the ones that are employed won't hang out with you or let you go to their parties.

Most artists want to think about the art, not running a computer and viruses. This is why Apple has always dominated this market.


RE: Corporate Cusomters?
By darkpaw on 3/19/2008 9:26:35 AM , Rating: 3
What is there, like one successful artist for every ten thousand or so thats either leaching off society or their parents?


RE: Corporate Cusomters?
By michael2k on 3/18/08, Rating: 0
RE: Corporate Cusomters?
By jajig on 3/18/2008 1:38:31 PM , Rating: 4
Users will call up saying they want to burn a DVD but can't find the DVD drive.

If my company give someone a laptop without a DVD drive it's the end of the world.


RE: Corporate Cusomters?
By bhieb on 3/18/2008 1:41:52 PM , Rating: 2
Oh and don't forget the ethernet, I suppose I need to be sure I have 100% wireless coverage throught the buildings now. Any other laptop can just jack right into any IP phone in the building and be on in seconds (providing they have the correct access).


RE: Corporate Cusomters?
By bhieb on 3/18/2008 1:39:36 PM , Rating: 5
Your joking right. Try running some custom excel sheets with lots of VBA in Mac Office 2008 and get back with me. And if you don't think most companies have lots of those types of spreadsheets your mistaken. Oh yeah dual boot I guess, but you know how we IT admins love supporting different crap just so you can have that "warm and tingly" feeling working on a mac.


RE: Corporate Cusomters?
By Xodus Maximus on 3/18/2008 2:59:21 PM , Rating: 5
quote:
"warm and tingly" feeling working on a mac


I've never had such a feeling working on a Mac...
Are you sure its not just an electrical short inside the Mac Air that causing it.

Im just saying, sweaty hands, aluminum cover, do the math :p


RE: Corporate Cusomters?
By schuft on 3/19/2008 12:43:06 AM , Rating: 1
Don't blame Apple for that. Microsoft decided to stop supporting VBA on Office 2008; one reason I will not upgrade to the new version. As an old unix programmer, and having programmed on both Windows and Mac platforms, I can honestly say that the Mac is a better machine. I cannot think of anything more convoluted than MS's .NET framework. The Mac just handles memory so much better and more easily. I can only rationalize MS's decision to drop VBA on the Mac OS simply as a petty ploy to hinder "corporate types" from switching to a superior product. I will admit that I recently bought a new MacBook Pro, passing on the MacBook Air because of the lack of power and self contained peripherals, but for people who do not need a full machine, and who get off on the "cool" factor, I think it is fine. And I am certainly not someone who has to have the newest toy. Furthermore, with my new laptop, I can run the few Windows products that I just cannot get away from. BTW, I built my Windows desktop, yet still prefer to use my Mac for everyday use.


RE: Corporate Cusomters?
By Pirks on 3/19/08, Rating: -1
RE: Corporate Cusomters?
By Raidin on 3/19/2008 11:33:26 AM , Rating: 2
I logged in just to rate you up and say this...

quote:
It's a F#CKING DOUBLE-MAYBACH OF THE 17" NOTEBOOKS!!


Should become a quote of the day.


RE: Corporate Cusomters?
By DASQ on 3/18/2008 1:58:10 PM , Rating: 2
"Where's my UBS ports?!"

"I broke the little flip-down door when I violently shoved it into my bag while stuff was still connected to it. How do I stick it back on?"


RE: Corporate Cusomters?
By callmeroy on 3/18/2008 3:59:44 PM , Rating: 2
Aside from the valid points already mentioned, I also think an issue would have to do with MacBook Air being so darn fragile as well as to why it wouldn't be a good choice for corporate deployment.

If you can't understand that fact right off the bat my immediate guess is you've never been responsible for supporting a large remote user base before.


RE: Corporate Cusomters?
By BZDTemp on 3/18/2008 1:43:06 PM , Rating: 2
TDC - a mid-size European telephone operator - has gone all Apple for their laptops. However it is only on the hardware side as they use the a Windows machines so that is properly why Apple has not been bragging about it :-)


RE: Corporate Cusomters?
By UNCjigga on 3/18/2008 3:38:26 PM , Rating: 3
You could argue that limited number of ports and no optical media means less headaches for IT to deal with. I guess it cuts down on people trying to run unsupported software/hardware? Also, lack of ethernet means they don't have to deal with network issues! :)


RE: Corporate Cusomters?
By afkrotch on 3/19/2008 5:46:29 AM , Rating: 2
Or could also add-in more headaches with usb hubs, usb ethernet, and external devices. Some of which I'm sure will become lost, stolen, or damaged.

Nothing like having a nice, small, fancy laptop with 50 different things hanging off of it.


RE: Corporate Cusomters?
By krag on 3/19/2008 12:15:22 PM , Rating: 1
I'm not going to take the cheap shot at your mis-spelling of "customers"...

OS X in general: "The attackes used against OS X are designed for Windows-based machines, so they shrug them off." Lt. Col. Wallington, US Army Data Center


Overpriced
By SectionEight on 3/18/2008 1:14:57 PM , Rating: 5
So Apple got a quarter of the money spent on PCs in February, yet that only netted them 14% of the units shipped. In other terms, all other PC makers got 75% of the money spent, yet shipped 86% of the total units.

Where are all the people defending Macs as not being overpriced now?




RE: Overpriced
By michael2k on 3/18/08, Rating: -1
RE: Overpriced
By SanLC504 on 3/18/2008 1:52:47 PM , Rating: 4
No, he's assuming that Apple sells laptops, as do other computer manufacturers. This survey isn't "All laptops with processors over 2.2 GHz, built-in wireless, and 14" or greater screens." It's ALL laptops, period. Guess what, Apple has a larger profit margin on their laptops because, get this, they actually sell their laptops at a greater profit than Windows-based laptops. Perhaps it's the "elitists" that want a Mac product because Steve Jobs has personally licked every Macbook case.

However, when was the last time you saw a new Macbook on sale using a coupon code? They don't, because they consider themselves a "top-end" manufacturer. Equivalence has nothing to do with it, it's about profit margins. Since Apple produces their own OS for their products, and NO ONE ELSE can utilize that OS (legally, of course), then they automatically get a leg up with reduced software licensing fees. But I bet Steve Jobs isn't passing those savings on to you. Just a guess.


RE: Overpriced
By michael2k on 3/18/2008 2:21:32 PM , Rating: 2
No he's not because Apple doesn't have budget laptops, gaming laptops, "large and heavy" laptops, nor "desktop replacement" laptops.

So the comparison between Apple and "other computer manufacturers" by necessity is comparing unlike to like, and I am saying that this initial condition is what causes the numbers to skew, financially, in Apple's favor.

You dismiss this, but the effect is real. By not making a budget laptop, Apple defaults to a higher profit margin. By not making a "cheap" laptop, Apple defaults to a higher profit margin. This is basic statistics; no accusation of "overpriced" is necessary.

If you compare like to like and still find that Apple is overpriced, then you can claim that Macs are overpriced, but as long as you compare like to unlike it is hard to argue overpriced. Again I throw in the example of the Lenovo X300; specced similarly, it is similarly priced, though the X300 has the advantage of optical drives and more ports for lower CPU.


RE: Overpriced
By jlips6 on 3/18/2008 9:08:04 PM , Rating: 2
If apple could, they would probably try to make a gaming laptop. It's not that they don't it's that they can't. (Gaming deficiency, hello?)

Desktop replacement? Being such a supporter of all apple products, you know about the macbook pro, right? They just don't call it a "desktop replacement", and they offer stationary moniters for every laptop they sell. Does this sound like a desktop replacement to you? If not, you need a little more schooling on what those are.

Large and heavy laptops, (I am assuming you are reffering to over 17" laptops.) Do not constitute enough of a percentage of laptop sales to actually make a difference in profit margin of all laptops. You should not include these.

Apple does not sell budget laptops, you are correct. There cheapest laptop is $1099, and cannot be compared to any budget laptop. Or can it? A quick check reveals you can get a dell inspiron with a larger screen (14.1 in as opposed to 13 in)and a faster processor (2.4 ghz as opposed to 2.1 ghz) with all equal other specifications for $974. I could not find the graphics card specifications for the mac however, so I must assume that they are 128 Mb or below. (they would advertise otherwise.) the dell's graphics card is 128mb. So while apple doesn't sell any laptops as budget laptops, you will find that they're lowest product is equal to a budget laptop, it's just they make it more expensive.

Apple has these things, they just sell them without all the names you place them under. (With the exception of gaming.) Hence, YES, APPLE DOES HAVE A HIGHER PROFIT MARGIN!!!!!


RE: Overpriced
By michael2k on 3/19/2008 11:49:28 AM , Rating: 2
Desktop replacement laptops use desktop CPUs; in a reversal, Apple uses laptop CPUs in their desktop iMacs.

The distinction is made clearer if we look at weight and dimensions
MacBook Air, 3lb
MacBook, 5.2lb (1.08x12.78x8.92)
MacBook Pro 15", 5.4lb (1.02x14.1×9.6)
MacBook Pro 17", 6.8lb

Then look at the Dell Inspiron models that are cheaper than Apple's in order to see why Apple's margins are higher:
Inspiron 1420 5.39lb (1.53x13.13x9.61)
Inspiron 1520, 6.4lb
Inspiron 1720, 7.62lb

The closest in match is the MacBook to the Inspiron 1420, by weight, but if you include dimensions the 1420 is actually nearly the same size as the MacBook Pro 15"

So here is, again, my thesis: Dell (and other similar PC manufacturers) have lower margins because they have an entire second set of laptops that they sell for cheaper than Apple's only lineup, and these are cheaper because they are larger and heavier. If you compare like to like, you would be comparing Dell's XPS systems which probably have similar margins to Apple's lineup.

Some simple math: If Dell's cheaper Inspiron lineup sells 2x as many as their XPS lineup, then you get the skew without any "overpriced" arguments.
66% at 15% margin + 33% at 25% margin = Dell total margin of 18.25%
100% at 25% margin = Apple's total margin of 25%


RE: Overpriced
By jlips6 on 3/18/2008 9:33:33 PM , Rating: 2
Oh, and bending categories so that it justifies a higher profit margin is not a valid argument. Apple has a higher profit margin because it charges more for the same product. End of story.


RE: Overpriced
By Pirks on 3/18/2008 10:10:31 PM , Rating: 2
Yeah, and Lexus charges more for the same car with four wheels as much cheaper Chevy.

Look, how can the Lexus bastards charge TRIPLE the price of Chevy if this damn overpriced Lexus also has EXACTLY THE SAME FOUR WHEELS! Blood suckers! Vampires! Evil capitalists, scoundrels and profiteers, where's your goddamn honesty???

F#cking leather seat lovers. I'll never buy your overpriced Lexus crap. End of story.


RE: Overpriced
By jlips6 on 3/18/2008 10:23:54 PM , Rating: 3
uh... did I miss some post that explains why we're now talking about lexus's? (what's the plural for luxus? lexi?)


RE: Overpriced
By Pirks on 3/18/2008 11:45:05 PM , Rating: 1
Yeah, you missed it in your early childhood. That post you missed said the following: "learn to understand analogy"


RE: Overpriced
By afkrotch on 3/19/2008 5:59:50 AM , Rating: 1
Maybe if the analogy fell under the same lines. Like a Lexus to a comparable Chevy. Pretty bad analogy if you compare a decked out Lexus ES to a Chevy Aveo.

A better analogy is like comparing a Ford to a Chevy. The Ford is all standard, but lacks a back seat and rear view mirror. Ford manufactures their own engines, so production costs are lower. The Chevy is standard, has a back seat and a rear view mirror. Chevy has to license an engine from Toyota to use with their vehicles. So production costs are higher, than if they could manufacture the engines.

All in all, the Ford ends up costing more, even though they lacks items and have lower production costs than Chevy.

There, better analogy for ya.


RE: Overpriced
By jlips6 on 3/19/2008 4:53:24 PM , Rating: 2
yeah, I actually did catch that post. That's why I'm having a little trouble here. I think you might have missed the post on what an analogy is. You were stressing lexus charging 3 times more for "the same 4 wheels." than Chevy. Since this in no possible way related to the computers which we were talking about I had to assume you were just talking about cars. Since you also gave no other explanation as to what other comparisons there may be, and were just ranting about the evil capitalists, I kind of assumed you were confused/crazy/both. My bad, I guess I'll try to obscurely connect whatever you're talking about to the subject so you can call it an analogy.


RE: Overpriced
By Pirks on 3/19/08, Rating: 0
RE: Overpriced
By jlips6 on 3/19/2008 5:47:30 PM , Rating: 3
alright, here's the connection. is this what you were trying to say?

Apples charges 3x more for their laptops than a similar brand,(insert favorite brand here.) The product is the same except for leather seats (insert small computer benefit here) except it costs 3 times more. Wow. inaccurate on both parts with no extra connections.

Does that work as an analogy for anyone unless they deliberatly block out all those enormous flaws? No. Even after the blocking it's extremely spotty. Better luck next time.


RE: Overpriced
By Pirks on 3/19/08, Rating: 0
RE: Overpriced
By Vanners on 3/18/2008 10:39:35 PM , Rating: 2
Hey! I just got this reeeeally cool laptop. $600 and light as a feather! Of course it has no DVD, HDD, CPU... actually, it's just the case. but man! is it light!

P.S. it would be 17" if it had a screen!


RE: Overpriced
By Brandon Hill (blog) on 3/18/2008 3:26:56 PM , Rating: 4
quote:
However, when was the last time you saw a new Macbook on sale using a coupon code?

Not exactly a coupon code, but MacMall is offering rebates of $75 to $100 on all Penryn-based MacBooks and $150 on all Penryn-based MacBook Pros.


RE: Overpriced
By Omega215D on 3/18/2008 10:11:11 PM , Rating: 2
I know that Apple offers student discounts on all their computers. I managed to get an employee discount on my MacBook bringing it to less than $950.

The cool thing about MacBooks are the fact that they maintain the same thickness all around instead of having a thin front and then gets thicker as you move back. For the MacBook Pro they got a 8600M GT, fast processor and plenty of RAM in a space that is 1" thick. Another thing I find to be nice is the MagSafe power plug which is pretty compact.


RE: Overpriced
By JoshuaBuss on 3/18/08, Rating: 0
RE: Overpriced
By michael2k on 3/18/2008 3:58:26 PM , Rating: 4
You are not correct; a 1.6GHz MacBook Air with 64GB SSD is only $2,798 while a Lenovo X300, base, is $2,902. Throwing in the SuperDrive and Ethernet dongle still only pushes the MacBook Air to $2,962.


RE: Overpriced
By JoshuaBuss on 3/19/2008 1:43:34 AM , Rating: 2
I still see $2,600 for the x300, and when I heard about macbook air with ssd it was $3,000. guess they've already adjusted and lenovo's main site only has a sale price of $2,866 now. oof


RE: Overpriced
By michael2k on 3/19/2008 11:52:55 AM , Rating: 2
Where do you see a $2,600 X300? Lenovo's website lists a 1GB model for $2,866 with XP, the cheapest variant I can find.


RE: Overpriced
By krag on 3/19/2008 2:10:28 PM , Rating: 2
Historically Macs were not more expensive if you compare apples to apples (pardon the use of apple) because PCs came with crappy video cards, etc, I know because I had a PC and my brother a Mac. I had to upgrade my video card (which put my PC cost close to my brothers Mac) to play a popular game at the time, he was able to play it on his Mac no problemo. Over time PC makers changed partly because of the $BIL in computer games, so now PCs have higher quality graphics and are still priced better than Macs... I switched to Mac after all the viruses started showing up in emails, and even if you visit a web page!!! Customer Satisfaction OSX 81%, XP home 53%, XP Pro 51%, Vista Premium 27%, Vista Basic 15% -- Changewave Research


14% of WHAT market?
By seaker on 3/18/08, Rating: 0
RE: 14% of WHAT market?
By jamdunc on 3/18/2008 12:53:00 PM , Rating: 2
The story says 14% of the US Market in February. In fact the title says that (unless they edited the article after your post).

Also it doesn't say Apple will get 66% share by 2011. It says that Notebooks will have 66% share of the PC market overtaking Desktops. And that is including every manufacturer, not just Apple.

A couple of extra minutes reading might help in the future.


RE: 14% of WHAT market?
By tmouse on 3/18/2008 3:17:22 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
A couple of extra minutes reading might help in the future


Maybe they changed the article but the current story says Apple had 14% of the SALES in February in the US market. This is NOT the same as Apple reached 14% of the US Market in February. It’s a completely misleading Title.


RE: 14% of WHAT market?
By Sazar on 3/18/2008 4:59:19 PM , Rating: 2
It's the RETAIL market. It does not include online sales.

HP, Dell and ACER still have much higher market shares all around.


RE: 14% of WHAT market?
By FITCamaro on 3/18/2008 12:53:03 PM , Rating: 2
They didn't mean Macs. They meant total notebook sales vs. total desktop sales. Macs and PCs.


RE: 14% of WHAT market?
By Scott66 on 3/18/2008 12:54:12 PM , Rating: 2
If I read your comment correctly, you misread what the 66% marketshare. It is that 66% of computer sales are to be notebooks in general, by 2011,NOT Apple with 66% Market share.

But I could see by then, Apple Notebooks being 1 out of every 5 sold.


RE: 14% of WHAT market?
By MadMaster on 3/18/08, Rating: -1
RE: 14% of WHAT market?
By FITCamaro on 3/18/2008 1:09:11 PM , Rating: 5
Macs are built on Unix. Not Linux. And viruses will always be around regardless of how secure a browser is.


RE: 14% of WHAT market?
By stonemetal on 3/18/2008 1:37:41 PM , Rating: 2
Nope Macs are built on the Mach micro kernel and Freebsd userland. It has nothing to do with Linux.


RE: 14% of WHAT market?
By Polynikes on 3/18/2008 12:55:26 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
...notebook sales are expected to reach 66% of the overall PC market by 2011.

It doesn't say Apple notebooks, just notebooks in general.


Worldwide?
By daftrok on 3/18/2008 12:39:20 PM , Rating: 3
That's all well and good in the US but what are the world figures? And how many Macbook Air's have actually been sold?




RE: Worldwide?
By FITCamaro on 3/18/2008 12:58:24 PM , Rating: 2
Honestly I don't see how the Air is selling at all. Mainly due to a lack of DVD drive. I mean I just can't see the world where you never have to install anything, never play a DVD, and never want to burn a DVD or CD. And spending the nearly $2000 required to buy an Air just for web surfing and document writing? Hell no.

Sure you can buy an Apple external drive but thats just another added cost. Then add no built in ethernet to boot and having to buy the USB dongle.

If Dell had released an identical notebook first with Windows they'd have been blasted for it.


RE: Worldwide?
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 3/18/2008 1:08:46 PM , Rating: 5
Apple is a media darling, they're exempt, much like Google.


RE: Worldwide?
By killerroach on 3/19/2008 9:21:29 AM , Rating: 2
Keep in mind that journalists are pretty big Apple users... which may explain the MacBook Air sales right there.

There is a market for it worldwide, however, as some people value portability a lot more than somebody like myself would. There are a lot of ultraportables in Japan, for instance. Granted, Japan has been a market that Apple has always had trouble cracking, but that could be a sign of things to come for the demand of those sorts of mobile devices.


RE: Worldwide?
By eyebeeemmpawn on 3/18/2008 2:22:32 PM , Rating: 3
hey, the emperor needs new clothes every once in a while.


RE: Worldwide?
By wien on 3/19/2008 7:10:45 AM , Rating: 2
Is it really that damn hard to imagine that some people have requirements that differ from your own? I've never used the DVD-drive in my laptop. Ever. It's dead weight. The Air would be perfect for my needs (though I don't have one).

Also, with the Air you have the ability to use the drive of your stationary computer across the network should you suddenly find yourself in need of one. No need to buy an external drive.


RE: Worldwide?
By kelmon on 3/19/2008 9:18:25 AM , Rating: 2
Absolutely correct. It might be a bit early to remove the optical drive but I honestly don't see its use these days and I haven't seen anyone use one at work now for years. The only thing that you need one for is installing the OS, although that can be done over the network, and I'm hoping they'll start distributing it on a flash memory stick in the future. The optical drive is almost never used and takes up space that could be better used for other purposes.

Basically, if you need an optical drive then that's fine, but don't assume that everyone else does since that's bunk. It's going to go away pretty soon so you might as well get used to the idea now.


RE: Worldwide?
By retrospooty on 3/18/08, Rating: -1
RE: Worldwide?
By retrospooty on 3/18/08, Rating: 0
Love hate relationship
By geekbyte on 3/18/2008 1:48:34 PM , Rating: 2
I dont understand why ppl hate MAC and hate PC that much. who cares who wins or has more sales. PC has its moments and so does Apple. I think Apples are great, never had a problem, OS is rock solid. THe computers are build super strong, never had a problem. Now you can say that you can get more software for PC, this is true. But as for Macs go i have just the same amount of software on my mac then my PC. Now yes you can get cracked versions of software, but if you look around the net, you can find just as many cracked for mac. PC i have had lots of problems, Vista does not work at points and the whole world is waiting for an update to fix them, as did the world wait for XP with SP2. With PC's its a waiting game, Apples work right out of the box. Now Yes PC is cheaper. That is a given, you have how many different companies making PC's, Dell, HP, Asus, ..... Etc. Apple is just Apple, so if they have to charge more to make a profit good for them, they sell so it works. I had a Dell laptop and it had to be sent in 3 times, and a HP that is going in because some buttons stick and dont work. My apple gets taken with me all over the place and never had to get anything worked on. As for pricing, Apple you can get low end for $1000 and $1300 for a good Laptop. $599 for a cheap crap laptop for PC from Dell and $1000 for a good and for a gaming system $1500+, even the macbook pro is $1700. Thats not that much more then any pc laptop. Desktop computers, PC has the upper hand in all pricing. I currently sold all my PC's and just dual boot my mac with windows, and it run a lot faster then my PC did with windows. Just bugs me when ppl complain about Apples and apples fan boys complain about PC. Its a love hate relation ship.




RE: Love hate relationship
By JoshuaBuss on 3/18/2008 3:56:14 PM , Rating: 3
i don't think most people hate apple computers as much as they hate the typical apple user or even worse, an apple FANBOY.

the problem is the higher price and marketing techniques apple has started using in the past 6 years or so have led to them appealing to generally snobbier people.


RE: Love hate relationship
By CU on 3/18/2008 4:01:26 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Apples work right out of the box


Not really. The calculator didn't even work correctly up until version 10.3.something. When they changed the way find worked in 10.4 (I think), I could could create files in the terminal.app that it could not always find correctly. After that I no longer trusted their calculator or their find. I used XP's/KDE's calculator on a PC next to me and used the bsd find command in the terminal.app to find files. I am glad to not be using OSX any more. These were just to basic/simple of operations to have been broken.


RE: Love hate relationship
By clnee55 on 3/18/2008 6:01:46 PM , Rating: 2
I bet that most of people who hate Mac don't own a Mac and people who hate PC don't own a PC, either. They are obsessed with love hate syndrome.


RE: Love hate relationship
By jlips6 on 3/18/2008 10:33:52 PM , Rating: 3
let me get this down as straight as I can. I own both a mac and a windows computer. I like windows more because it's more to my taste. that's just me.

Why I don't like apple: they market their product as being ridiculously superior and give PC's flaws they don't often have and make claims about their own system that aren't true and make it seem better. Most companies do this, but this is especially annoying to me, as i am a technogeek.

Basically, I don't like apple because they spread so much crap, and windows users often get angry when people believe it and try to argue. There.

Does anyone remember mac 9.4? that os was amazing. Much better than their current version I believe. And the G4? It was a great computer if only because it was so modifiable. The iPod? unparraleled as an mp3 player. Apple has good products and things, it's their advertisements and claims that spur the hate.


RE: Love hate relationship
By 777 on 3/18/2008 9:13:30 PM , Rating: 1
Excellent points, and right on too! Who cares about which computer you use, if some like Apple as I prefer great, if others prefer the PC then good for them. I can say from my personal exp. I have owned 3 mac's and for the years that I have owned them I have never had a problem with them. Some of the PC's I have used and owned, I can't say the same, at times my computer exp with PC's sucked! Having said that though I have used a couple PC's that worked great, I just believe one needs to practice safe computing or the computer can get mucked up and then work like SHI_!

Also, I hear ten times the amount of complaints from every friend, relative or co-worker about PC's they own or use. Of the people I know who own Mac's and that list continues to grow I can't recall ever hearing a complaint from them or having some major issue with their Mac.

As to PC's being cheaper, true but compare the spec's and 9 times out of 10, it can cost the same and more to get what you get in a product like the Macbook Pro vs PC laptop.


RE: Love hate relationship
By Pirks on 3/19/2008 1:14:42 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
compare the spec's and 9 times out of 10, it can cost the same and more to get what you get in a product like the Macbook Pro vs PC laptop
Very true. Anyone can double check this if the don't believe. Just go to http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N8... and compare it to the similarly configured MacBook 2.4 GHz. You'll find that MacBook has faster CPU, better DVD and better ethernet, while being just $90 more expensive. Now where are all these "Macs are overpriced" bullsh1t spewing idiots? Care to prove your point? I think they are just downrating cowards, they hate the fact that they can't prove the opposite and they just vent their frustration and rage in downrating me. Poor little Wintel suckers :D


RE: Love hate relationship
By afkrotch on 3/19/2008 6:22:39 AM , Rating: 2
My problem is simply to build your own system. Not everyone wants a system spoon-fed to them. I can build a similiar equipped system and transfer my old OS onto it. Not to mention transfer old hardware to the new hardware. I don't want to be charged again for something I already own.

There's also lack of support for majority of devices. Granted, this isn't an Apple issue. It's an issue with those developing the devices.

For those non-system builders, get whatever you feel like. I don't care. Just don't spout out why X is better than Y, yet don't even understand everything about X and Y.


Won't continue to grow.
By pauldovi on 3/18/2008 1:52:50 PM , Rating: 2
Apple fits into a niche market with their hip and expensive productions. Don't expect them to do much more gaining on the more sensibly priced PC companies.




RE: Won't continue to grow.
By michael2k on 3/18/2008 4:37:19 PM , Rating: 2
Apple isn't competing with sensibly priced PCs. Apple is competing with high priced PCs, such as the Lenovo X300 (which is more expensive), the Gateway One, the Dell XPS One, and the Dell/HP/Lenovo Workstations. Their laptops compete against the Dell XPS laptops.

In those markets (with similar designs, PCs, and components) Apple is price competitive and should continue to gain marketshare.


RE: Won't continue to grow.
By pauldovi on 3/19/2008 4:12:10 AM , Rating: 2
The X300 costs less than the air. It has a lot more features too.


RE: Won't continue to grow.
By Pirks on 3/19/08, Rating: 0
RE: Won't continue to grow.
By Pirks on 3/19/08, Rating: -1
RE: Won't continue to grow.
By afkrotch on 3/19/2008 6:45:42 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
That's pretty funny Wintel fanboy bullsh1t, watch it being flushed down the bowl right now.

Here's how I do this:

1) Go to lenovo.com, check the price, X300 starts with $2866, now go to apple.com, check the price - macbook air starts from $1800 - A THOUSAND DOLLARS CHEAPER than X300. Who's overpriced now, Mr. Wintel Fanboy? Like the taste of your own medicine? :P

2) Check number two - go to lenovo.com, configure X300 so that it's more or less similar to MBA - add 1 gig of RAM and choose proper Vista version - LOOK MA, X300 is $3055 now... cheaper? yeah, 45 bucks cheaper BUT... watch my hands... MBA has 802.11n, while X300 has 802.11g!

There you go. Puny 1.2 GHz CPU in X300 is a joke compared to 1.8 GHz in MBA, so looks like X300 is only going to be bought by idiots. Who in their sane mind would pay three thousand bucks for an ultraportable with 1.2 GHz CPU when next to it lies another one for the same price but with 1.8 GHz CPU? Well, unless you want that internal Verizon CDMA modem in X300 - that's the only advantage it has over MBA... but... watch my hands again... in this case MBA is ONE HUNDRED BUCKS _CHEAPER_ than X300 with CDMA.

Sorry, just had to burst your fanatical bubble here ;-)


That's pretty funny Mac fanboy bullsh1t, watch it being flushed down the bowl right now.

Configure Macbook air with 64 gig SSD to match the X300. Viola! It costs more.

Dumbass.


RE: Won't continue to grow.
By Pirks on 3/19/08, Rating: -1
RE: Won't continue to grow.
By kelmon on 3/19/2008 9:24:55 AM , Rating: 2
As a general rule it helps to do some research before posting a comment like that. It is true that the X300 has things like the optical drive and more ports but then the Air is a higher performing system. Surely performance is a desirable feature?


RE: Won't continue to grow.
By jlips6 on 3/18/2008 10:40:49 PM , Rating: 2
but what about companies like alienware and voodoo? (not such a fan of voodoo myself.)

On a completely different but somewhat related topic have you seen alienware's new computer? So kick-ass.(laptop with custom lighting in the keyboard. just. plain. awesome.)


RE: Won't continue to grow.
By kelmon on 3/19/2008 9:26:49 AM , Rating: 2
"The Fast & The Furious" has a lot to answer for...


Good time to buy stock.
By Mitch101 on 3/18/2008 12:38:51 PM , Rating: 3
Now is a good time to buy stock in Turtle neck clothing lines.




RE: Good time to buy stock.
By UppityMatt on 3/18/2008 12:50:16 PM , Rating: 3
And to invest in Starbucks. All these new Mac Owner's will need to start on their novels.


RE: Good time to buy stock.
By almared on 3/18/2008 4:35:32 PM , Rating: 2
haha true, very true


hmm
By LumbergTech on 3/18/2008 1:26:13 PM , Rating: 2
the snob effect is in full force....now if only we can get everyone to buy the itoaster ivibrator and iunderwear our plans of world domination will be complete




RE: hmm
By rdeegvainl on 3/18/2008 2:05:52 PM , Rating: 2
RE: hmm
By habibo on 3/18/2008 6:36:43 PM , Rating: 2
So THAT's what Steve Jobs has up his ass at MacWorld...


RE: hmm
By INeedCache on 3/19/2008 4:39:00 AM , Rating: 2
Don't forget the much needed accessory for the MacBook Air - the iHub. For just $99, you get a basic 4 port USB hub inside a glitzy silver package with the Apple logo prominently displayed.


What are the REAL totals?
By Parhel on 3/18/2008 1:24:58 PM , Rating: 5
It should surprise anyone that Mac captures a large portion of the US retail market, because that is their only market.

Where are they in the big picture? This article only discusses retail sales in the US. What portion of computers sold in the US are sold retail versus corporate? And, it's not clear if that includes direct sales such as Dell.

Either way, retail sales numbers aren't equivalent to what people are using in their homes anyways. For example, we have two brand new laptops at home given to us by work. We could afford to buy a Mac, but why would we spend anything on a third laptop? Just to look cool, or play with the OS? I would think that a large portion of those who could afford an expensive laptop already have one given to them by their employer.




RE: What are the REAL totals?
By michael2k on 3/18/08, Rating: -1
RE: What are the REAL totals?
By tmouse on 3/18/2008 3:31:32 PM , Rating: 2
So Apple released their newest and VERY hyped "Air book" on 1/30/08 and in the next month saw a whopping 5% increase in sales compared to last year when they did not have ANY new offerings. This is great news? You are correct NPD does NOT track direct sales. From other articles I have researched I do not believe they even include internet sales. Their data comes mostly from brick and mortar chains (like best buy, target ect.)


25% revenue share...
By ciparis on 3/18/2008 1:09:45 PM , Rating: 2
Wow. I guess the stores were a good idea... someone should have told Gateway back in the day that maybe stocking the stores with actual computers for sale would help.




RE: 25% revenue share...
By kelmon on 3/19/2008 9:51:11 AM , Rating: 2
It's a stupid salesman that allows a potential customer time to think about their purchase - if they want one now then give it to them. Being able to get some hands-on time with a potential computer purchase is important but it's also important to be able to take one home with you immediately. If you are going to provide a bricks 'n' mortar store then customers are going to expect to be able to walk out of the store with a product just as they can in any other store.


MICROSOFT the Monopoly
By 16nm on 3/18/2008 3:19:23 PM , Rating: 2
What percentage of market share does Linux and Mac OSX have to have to void Microsoft's monopoly?? Technically, Microsoft does not have a monopoly on PC operating systems right now. Granted, this seems to be irrelevent. I would just like to figure out the point at which Microsoft will stop being sued for its so-called 'monopolistic practises'.




RE: MICROSOFT the Monopoly
By kelmon on 3/19/2008 9:34:12 AM , Rating: 2
Bare in mind that Microsoft's monopoly is not just restricted to its sales of Windows vs. other OS but also how it behaves with competitors on Windows itself. Take, for example, the recent permission for Novell to continue with legal action against Microsoft for withholding information necessary for them to release WordPerfect for Windows 95 so that Microsoft could build their other cash-cow, Microsoft Office. This action has nothing to do with the likes of Apple or other non-Windows OS vendors but demonstrates Microsoft abusing its monopoly powers.


Sell Mac with Windows Preinstalled
By rupaniii on 3/18/2008 5:02:55 PM , Rating: 2
What if Apple started including Windows with Mac's as a 'compatability feature' for existing windows users?
Preinstalled with Bootcamp?
Use Windows for your games, use OSX for everything else.
It could at least cut into the high priced market share that they already compete AGAINST now. Now they'd have Windows installed at the same price as some of the pricey models, AND have Windows Compatability as an added feature to being a Mac.




By kelmon on 3/19/2008 9:37:21 AM , Rating: 2
That is offered by some resellers of Macs but generally isn't required.


just say no
By dare2savefreedom on 3/19/2008 12:06:00 AM , Rating: 2
just say no:

macs are gay - be a man, buy a geforce 8800gtx ( hell buy 3 )

apple is about controlling you |\|0o85, closed hardware - you'd be still using your weak a$$ applegraphicsport rage128 chips with quickdraw3d and paying the same price as a 9800gx2.

get used to open platforms, open protocols - No, appletalk doesnt run $hite on the internet byotch.

we your fearless leader dies there will be no more apples to buy so embrace freedom and choice now instead of after you have destroyed the free world.

quickdraw3d? appletalk? GTFOOH




RE: just say no
By michael2k on 3/19/2008 12:11:23 PM , Rating: 2
You're 10 years late. Find something else to hate: QuckDraw3d was deprecated 10 years ago and has been replaced by industry standard OpenGL. Likewise AppleTalk has been deprecated and replaced with Ethernet and hasn't been enabled since 2005, nearly three years.

As far as I can tell, the Mac supports all the open platforms and protocols, and more so than Windows.


Not surprising...
By eickst on 3/18/08, Rating: 0
RE: Not surprising...
By hubajube on 3/18/2008 2:13:57 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
upper middle and upper class douchebags
Don't get mad because I refuse to pay for your healthcare while you sit at home in Mom's basement playing WoW all day.


Bad Title
By tmouse on 3/18/2008 2:59:20 PM , Rating: 3
It should not be “Apple Captures 14% of U.S. Retail PC Market in February" but” Apple Captures 14% of U.S. Retail PC Market SALES in February". The title implies 14% of the U.S. PC market consisted of Apple products as of February, quite different from Apple getting a 14% share of SALES in February which is typically a slow month anyway. Since a large percentage of that could be existing Apple owners replacing one Apple product with another.




Boring
By doucie on 3/19/2008 6:58:14 AM , Rating: 1
Boring, boring, boring. The Apple v Pc debate really is fu**ing boring.




Boring
By doucie on 3/19/2008 7:03:57 AM , Rating: 1
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I feel...
By TALENT on 3/18/08, Rating: 0
Lexus
By Brigandier on 3/18/08, Rating: -1
RE: Lexus
By Pirks on 3/18/08, Rating: -1
RE: Lexus
By UNCjigga on 3/18/2008 3:49:41 PM , Rating: 2
I know I've made the point before that Apple REALLY needs to start thinking of the Bottom Half, Emerging Markets or whatever we're calling the Third World today.

If Apple really wants to make a dent in Windows marketshare, they need to push OS X in emerging markets like Russia, India, China and other countries with a burgeoning middle class. Linux is already challenging Microsoft's OS domination outside of Western countries, and there's no reason OS X can't play--except for the fact that OS X is tied to Apple hardware, and Apple hardware is too expensive for 95% of the world's population.

Apple should introduce a budget line, or work with Acer, Lenovo and other low-cost volume producers to produce OS X-compatible machines based on reference designs (similar to how NVidia and ATI/AMD operate today.) They can keep the American market to themselves and restrict sales of "clones" to emerging markets if they want to stay greedy, but in the end they will benefit if people in these markets get hooked on OS X early.


RE: Lexus
By Pirks on 3/18/2008 6:26:20 PM , Rating: 1
Yeah, sounds like "Lexus MUST sell cheapo cars or else..." or else what? Do you mean that if upscale goods manufacturer stays upscale forever, something bad may happen to them? If this is true, then how do you explain Lexus or Saab or other premium car brands always staying in the premium market and refusing to move down to budget segment? Why all of the premium brands exist in premium world forever, and nothing happens to them? Why the heck Rolls Royce or Lamborgini or Lexus or BMW decided to never do cheapo $12000 tin can cars? Why they are making only upscale models and still survive and even thrive?


RE: Lexus
By rebturtle on 3/18/2008 10:45:25 PM , Rating: 3
It's all about economies of scale vs. brand name loyalty. There are some brands, maybe even Apple, that are well suited to staying exclusively in the high-end market. There is much more going on behind the scenes than most people often realize, though. Would you rather attempt to sell 1,000 cars at $10,000 profit each ($10,000,000), or 1,000,000 cars at $500 profit ($500,000,000).

It can be done both ways, though. For instance, Toyota created Lexus as a luxury brand, and Scion as a "hip" brand, Honda created Acura, and Nissan created Infinity. They all knew the public thought of them as budget/mainstream brands, so they created new, exclusive, luxury brands.

GM owns:
-Buick
- Cadillac
-Chevrolet
-Daewoo (GM owns 44%)
-Fiat (10% ownership.)
-GMC
-Holden
-Hummer
-Oldsmobile (brand discontinued)
-Opel
-Pontiac
- Saab
-Saturn
-Suzuki (2.5%, from 20%)
-Vauxhall

Ford owns:
- Aston Martin
-Ford
- Jaguar
-Land Rover (bought from BMW)
-Lincoln
-Mazda (Ford owns 33% of Mazda)
-Mercury
-Volvo cars

Even better, Volkswagen owns:
- Audi
- Bentley
- Bugatti
- Lamborghini
-SEAT
-Skoda
-Volkswagen

As I said before Apple is taking Intel's newest hardware (which will soon be available in many other brands/configurations), wrapping it in something shiny, and marking it up heavily. Will I buy it? No, I'd prefer something else. I still own several shares of Apple though. Even if I don't like them, I know good marketing hype when I see it. The feeling of exclusivity helps sell luxury brands as much as mirror finishes and leather.


RE: Lexus
By Parhel on 3/18/2008 11:25:03 PM , Rating: 2
Excellent points. Consider that BMW, and Mercedes Benz to a lesser extent, have heavily moved into the lower price ranges in the last several years. It used to be that if you saw a BMW, you knew that was an expensive car. Now that they are common, you have to be familiar with their lineup to know whether it's a rich person or an ordinary guy behind the wheel. That dilutes the brand to be sure, but at the same time increases their sales dramatically.

I don't think the Mac is well suited to continue targeting only the high end market in the long term. If the user base never gets beyond 4% of the market, eventually the lack of applications will catch up to them. I think the company realizes this, and my prediction is that by the 32nm generation of chips they will decisively move into the mainstream.


RE: Lexus
By Pirks on 3/18/2008 11:54:30 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
by the 32nm generation of chips they will decisively move into the mainstream
No, they are already in a mainstream with their computers starting at $600, this is definitely between mainstream and lower end/budget end. So I don't see why they have to "move" into the segment where they are already present.


RE: Lexus
By Parhel on 3/19/2008 1:05:27 AM , Rating: 1
The only low priced computer Apple offers is the Mini. In comparison, at any major retailer you can buy you a PC with monitor, a basic software package, a keyboard, mouse, speakers, etc, for under $500. Your $600 will get you a Mini with none of the above. That's not mainstream, that's 4% market share.


RE: Lexus
By Pirks on 3/19/08, Rating: 0
RE: Lexus
By Parhel on 3/19/2008 10:15:04 AM , Rating: 2
Quit talking in circles. It's the reason everyone downrates you.

First you say they're mainstream, then you're back to your ridiculous "leather seat" argument. You can't have it both ways.

Any day of the week, I can go to OfficeMax or Best Buy or some other store and pick up a fully functional PC for under $500. That's half the price of a Mini.

Mainstream doesn't care about firewire or bluetooth or 802.11n. Mainstream wants a monitor and printer. Remember, your logic nets 4% market share.


RE: Lexus
By Pirks on 3/19/08, Rating: 0
RE: Lexus
By drunkenmastermind on 3/19/2008 1:15:58 AM , Rating: 2
And Porsche owns Porsche


RE: Lexus
By rebturtle on 3/19/2008 2:35:02 AM , Rating: 2
Porsche, BMW, Lamborghini, Ferrari. Although the car analogy itself isn't completely fair, these examples really aren't equal to what we're discussing. With the truly "high-end" automotive manufacturers, you're getting more engineering for the money. Yes, you get leather appointments and many fineries, but the car has much more performance.

I like the Lexus analogy, because it is more relevant to the hardware/software differences. Let's say you park a Lexus ES next to a Toyota Camry XLE V6 (I'll at least try to get them close). The Lexus has basically all of the available options of the Camry, extra leather, better sound & navigation, the same engine, and is super shiny. It costs around $3-5000 more for the T turned upside down without 1 leg and the super shine.

An Apple runs basically the same hardware as any (comparable) PC or laptop, has all the bells and whistles, and is super shiny.

And yes, Porsche owns Porsche, and eventually, Volkswagen too. Shall we park a Cayenne next to a Touareg?


RE: Lexus
By Pirks on 3/19/2008 3:43:55 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
An Apple runs basically the same hardware as any comparable PC or laptop, has all the bells and whistles, and is super shiny.
Exactly! Very well put analogy with Lexus that I also use all the time. I can't understand why people get so upset here, is it because Apple charges a little extra for smaller size/weight, and little details like virusless OS, multitouch and magsafe connector? Nobody forces you to pay for this shine, but since this shine DOES EXIST you zealots can't spew your standard BS about "overpriced" Macs. It's a free market, buyers who don't care about extra shine buy other brands, Apple is not an absolute solution for everyone on the planet.


RE: Lexus
By hubajube on 3/18/2008 4:07:52 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Let everyone do the job they do best, dontcha agree?
No I "dontcha" agree. According to some, I'm in the top 10% of income earners in the US yet I don't own a Mac or any other Apple product. If I'm not in the leather-seat crowd, I don't know who is. Furthermore, NONE of my other leather-seat crowd friends and family own or desire to own Macs. Some do have iPods and some others have owned them and got rid of them for other products.


RE: Lexus
By Pirks on 3/18/2008 6:13:28 PM , Rating: 2
You and your friends disagree with market trends that show slow growth of Apple market share quarter to quarter. You and your friends are one thing and the market trend is totally different thing. They just don't intersect.


RE: Lexus
By Brigandier on 3/18/2008 4:33:15 PM , Rating: 4
I agree, a $400 Macbook wouldn't do much for anyone. the illusion of luxury is what keeps Apple in business, and the barebones Macbook would be an affront to beret-clad nonconformists everywhere.


RE: Lexus
By Pirks on 3/18/2008 6:58:47 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
a $400 Macbook wouldn't do much for anyone
You're making a mistake here. Cheap $300 Macs could seriously expand Mac OS market share in the long run and hence present real competitor to MS, which would benefit absolutely anyone since competition is GOOOD.

With the current situation when Apple doesn't want to expand into budget segment, I don't think MS will get real tough competitor any time soon. Mac market share grows very slow because Apple stays strictly in upscale market, and I don't like situation where MS has no competition on desktop.

Look at how well MS perorms on the server side where it has tough competitor - Linux. We NEED strong competitor like that on the desktop side as well. With Jobs stubbornly refusing to expand in budget enterprise PC market I don't know if we ever see such a desktop-side competitor in future


RE: Lexus
By kelmon on 3/19/2008 9:45:10 AM , Rating: 2
It all comes down to money and there's pretty much none to be made in the budget end of the market because the margins are so narrow. If it could be shown that a buyer of a budget Mac today is the buyer of a premium Mac tomorrow then there would be a long-term incentive to compete in that market. However, I rather suspect that it would be more likely that the budget Macs would cannibalize sales of the premium models instead and therefore this would be a loss-making enterprise.

Apple's doing very well at present with the current strategy. While that strategy works there is no point in changing it, particularly when it could be very costly.


RE: Lexus
By Pirks on 3/19/2008 11:55:14 AM , Rating: 1
Excellent point! Like I said earlier, it's very unlikely that Apple starts making budget low end machines. Why would they make low profit hardware indeed, when their high profit hardware is selling so well? As long as they are selling a lot of high-profit stuff they are not going to go for low end.


RE: Lexus
By maven81 on 3/18/2008 6:12:15 PM , Rating: 3
Here you go again with the silly car analogies.
What you don't realize is that there is no correlation.

Macs are mass produced. Ferraris are not.
Hence Ferraris are rare and exclusive, while there are millions of macs.
Macs are made on an assembly line in China, Ferraris are handcrafted.
In fact macs are made by the same people that make PCs.
Macs (aside from the pro) are not some high performance variant. They are the same
speed as PCs.
Ferraris have exclusive features, macs have what... firewire 800? (there are LED backlit PCs out there, as well as ultra portable ones, fancy designer ones, etc)
Some Ferraris are custom made for their owners...

And that's not counting a whole slew of other issues you never addressed such as
can you say that a Ferrari is "better" then say a rally car? Both are cars, neither could do
what the other does, so they can not be compared.

And remember... a Lexus is still a Toyota ;)


RE: Lexus
By Pirks on 3/18/2008 6:34:59 PM , Rating: 2
Macs are mass produced, but Lexus is mass produced either, Replace Ferrari with Lexus, it doesn't matter as long as you understand the difference between upscale car and cheapo car.

Why you keep insisting that Macs are "better"? I don't understand it. I never said they are better, I said they are upscale, meaning they offer some added value for some extra price, that's all.

I know Lexus is made by Toyota, but it does not change anything. Toyota cars and Lexus cars are still different even though they are made by the same company.


RE: Lexus
By jlips6 on 3/18/2008 10:22:04 PM , Rating: 2
what's the extra value you say macs have? Essentially, all features except the operating system are the same. So I think what you are trying to convey is that macs are in the market as a product for a user of a specific mindset. But I won't go in to that. As far as costing more, that's sort of a brand thing.


RE: Lexus
By Scott66 on 3/19/2008 12:04:42 AM , Rating: 2
Tightly integrated productivity software like ilife is an extra value that would cost at least an extra $200-300 to get for windows. Sure there is free software that can be installed but it is a pain and requires a little knowledge.

Also it will be hard to find a PC laptop that has the multi-touch touchpad now on the Macbook Air and Macbook Pro. I use a simple macbook and the touchpad is magnitudes better than any windows-based laptop I interacted with ( A Lexus when compared to the cheaper cars everybody in this thread is talking about).


RE: Lexus
By Pirks on 3/19/2008 12:46:23 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
I use a simple macbook and the touchpad is magnitudes better than any windows-based laptop I interacted with, it's a Lexus of trackpads when compared to the cheaper cars everybody in this thread is talking about
Hear, hear!


RE: Lexus
By Pirks on 3/19/2008 12:40:17 AM , Rating: 2
Magsafe connector, magnetic latch, slot-loading DVD drive, large multitouch trackpad with two-finger scrolling, fully packed with extras like webcam/bluetooth/802.11n/firewire, has no problem with viruses/malware - and all of this costs NOTHING, 'cause if you try and find a notebook on newegg.com with EXACTLY the same hardware specs as $1100 MacBook - this newegg's Wintel PC notebook is going to cost you THE SAME money.

So, honestly, I still can't see where do you pay "more for the same"? What brand thing are you talking about? I don't understand all this rubbish.

Why don't you go to newegg and compare this notebook: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N8... with equivalent MacBook? You'll find that MacBook costs about $90 more (with shipping included) because 1) MacBook has faster CPU (clocked 300 MHz faster) 2) MacBook has 10 times faster ethernet port, 3) MacBook has better (slot loading) DVD drive.

How does your "Macs are overpriced" story sound now, huh? :-)


"We basically took a look at this situation and said, this is bullshit." -- Newegg Chief Legal Officer Lee Cheng's take on patent troll Soverain














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