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Apple has big plans for the software on the iPhone

Apple announced this week that on March 17 it will offer a special preview of iPhone operating system 3.0 and the company's new iPhone software development kit (SDK), both of which will be released in coming months.  Apple has sent out invitations to news outlets to attend the exclusive event.

Last year, Apple held a similar event to announce the arrival of its iPhone OS 2.0 software and how it was opening its SDK up to more developers.  The top news last year was that Microsoft Exchange through licensing the Microsoft ActiveSync protocol was coming to the iPhone.  This year, anticipations are high that Apple will drop some more big news.

Apple blog site Apple Insider has published a "wish list" for the 3.0 version OS, though it’s pure hopeful speculation. 

Apple is on a roll, growing its smart phone OS market share 111 percent from Q4 2007 to Q4 2008, according to market research firm Gartner.  The iPhone still trails Symbian and BlackBerry maker Research in Motion in total shipments, but continues to show some of the strongest sales figures for a single piece of phone hardware.

With its App store, Apple either launched or predicted early -- depending on your perspective -- a major market trend.   Google, Microsoft, and Nokia all have announced app stores for their smart phone offerings.

Thus far, Apple has announced no plans of updates to the iPhone hardware.  Apple has been debuting hardware at its usual rapid pace the last couple months.  After a lackluster January, which only brought a couple new laptops, Apple announced new desktop computers early this month and last week announced the attractive $79 4 GB iPod Shuffle, which has shrunk and gained Voice Over features. 

The latest Apple rumor is that Apple is preparing to enter the netbook market, as it has been reportedly ordering new netbook-sized displays from the Taiwanese manufacturer that makes its iPhone displays.  However, such rumors should be taken with a grain of salt, as late last year Apple CEO Steve Jobs stated, "We don't know how to make a $500 computer that's not a piece of junk."

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new hardware
By bebesito21 on 3/13/2009 11:06:11 AM , Rating: 5
You didnt mention that the new software lists support for a currently unavailable model of the iphone 2,1. I don't know if it will be a major change, but I expect them to revamp the hardware with a faster processor a la the ipod touch and more storage - 16gb and 32gb and maybe they will also keep the 8gb model.




RE: new hardware
By Brandon Hill (blog) on 3/13/2009 11:13:23 AM , Rating: 1
I'll buy an iPhone when they release a 32GB model. I have about 20GB of music on my iPod touch plus about 400MB of apps.

It sure will be nice when I can just carry a decent-capacity iPhone around instead of my iPod touch + a regular cell phone.


RE: new hardware
By SpaceRanger on 3/13/2009 11:17:03 AM , Rating: 2
I'd get an iPhone myself if it wasn't for the fact that AT&T service is atrocious where I live.

I'll have to settle for the iTouch + Verizon phone for now as well.


RE: new hardware
By mmntech on 3/13/2009 11:26:12 AM , Rating: 2
Wasn't there a rumour a while back that the next iPhone was going to be offered through more providers. I think T-Mobile was one of them. Given all the negative things I've heard about AT&T, I wouldn't want to be with them either.

Three things I want to see for iPhone OS 3.0 are cut & paste, a built in PDF/Doc viewer app, and Adobe Flash. I think these are the biggies that really need to be added.


RE: new hardware
By Doormat on 3/13/2009 12:09:43 PM , Rating: 2
No, the exclusive USA deal goes for at least another year, if not more. Apple and AT&T have been very foggy on that for a while now.

I wouldn't think you'd see the iPhone ever available on anything other than AT&T. If I had to pick a time where Apple would open it up to everyone, it would be after the move to 4G/LTE when T-Mobile, Verizon and AT&T are all using the same cellular technology (instead of GSM for AT&T and T-Mobile vs CDMA for VZW).


RE: new hardware
By bigizzy on 3/13/2009 3:11:39 PM , Rating: 2
PDF/Doc Viewer is already built in is my understanding...


RE: new hardware
By bigizzy on 3/13/2009 3:25:52 PM , Rating: 3
Just confirmed my understanding on my wife's iPhone and the answer is YES.

The iPhone can already open MS Word & PDF Documents.


RE: new hardware
By omnicronx on 3/13/2009 8:09:21 PM , Rating: 2
I opened a word document once on an iPhone and it made my doc look like it was made with notepad. I definitely didn't support embedded images when i tried it, and basically removed all formatting.


RE: new hardware
By Ichinisan on 3/13/2009 12:55:34 PM , Rating: 4
Instead of buying into their whole "upgrade cycle" mentality of releasing fixed capacities and built-in consumable batteries, why not just demand microSDHC support or some other kind of industry-standard storage expansion common on all other music phones?


RE: new hardware
By FITCamaro on 3/13/2009 1:56:34 PM , Rating: 3
You're talking crazy talk in the world of Apple and their followers.


RE: new hardware
By Pirks on 3/13/2009 3:37:56 PM , Rating: 1
Why? Replacing the whole phone once in a while, say every two or three years, is not THAT bad. I don't see much of a problem here compared to replacing a battery or an SD card. I don't understand why are you hating it so much.


RE: new hardware
By adiposity on 3/13/2009 4:36:36 PM , Rating: 3
Your response makes no sense. He is saying it would be crazy in the Apple world to allow modular additions like memory cards. And while he did not mean it as a compliment, your response is still non sequitar.

-Dan


RE: new hardware
By LRonaldHubbs on 3/13/2009 4:38:40 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Why?

From a consumer point of view, what reason is there against uSDHC expansion?

quote:
Replacing the whole phone once in a while, say every two or three years, is not THAT bad.

You seem to neglect the fact that upgradability isn't just about prolonging life span of the device, it is also about making it more useful while you have it. Newer batteries have better capacity, so why not get some more runtime out of it than the original battery could offer? Higher capacity SD cards let you store more files, and frankly, 16GB is not enough for the iPhone to serve as my full-time PMP.

quote:
I don't see much of a problem here compared to replacing a battery or an SD card.

You mean besides the order of magnitude difference in cost? Well, unless you buy the SD card directly from Apple, then I suppose they are probably of the same order...

BTW, I don't hate the iPhone, I have no justifiable use for it, mostly because of the storage limitation.


RE: new hardware
By Pirks on 3/13/2009 5:15:39 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
what reason is there against uSDHC expansion?
Too many holes in the case, dirt/dust will get through them. Slick/clean/stylish looks also suffer from all these holes. Price suffers too, since more connections and holes make the device more expensive to produce.
quote:
Newer batteries have better capacity
Never heard of it. In fact when I replaced my three year old cell phone battery (SE Z200) I started to get LESS talk time than on a previous one. So it sounds more like a fairy tale ;-)
quote:
Higher capacity SD cards let you store more files
Well, if you know you gonna need a LOT of space you just don't buy the iPhone. Buy a smartphone with SD slot instead. iPhone is not truly universal device yet, doesn't serve your niche of the market. May do so when 32GB version is released.
quote:
the order of magnitude difference in cost?
Yeah, because you're getting a new phone with new capabilities, not JUST the new battery. Hence it's going to be more expensive.


RE: new hardware
By LRonaldHubbs on 3/13/2009 5:44:01 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
Too many holes in the case, dirt/dust will get through them. Slick/clean/stylish looks also suffer from all these holes. Price suffers too, since more connections and holes make the device more expensive to produce.

Please elaborate on "all these holes". uSD expandability is a single slot that is barely even noticable. I know because I have a Sansa e280 with a 2GB card installed. And having an expansion slot doesn't necessarily hurt the looks because they can build in a cover over it. In fact, if the back plate is made easily removable, then not only is the battery easy to change, but the uSD slot can be made completely internal. Fancy that, added funtionality without hurting aesthetics, who'da thunk it?

quote:
Yeah, because you're getting a new phone with new capabilities, not JUST the new battery. Hence it's going to be more expensive.

You missed the point. That assumes that you need/want the new capabilities. Maybe you actually don't want a higher-resolution built-in camera or whatever extras they throw in the next model. Maybe you only want to increase your storage space and keep using the thing until it dies. Apple says too bad. The fact is, Apply is milking consumers for money by not providing a middle-ground upgrade route. Whether or not you or I respect that move is a completely separate issue, but it's exactly what they are doing.


RE: new hardware
By Pirks on 3/13/2009 6:07:02 PM , Rating: 2
Even if it's possible to make external connectors without hurting looks, the argument about higher price of production still stands.


RE: new hardware
By TomZ on 3/13/2009 6:14:37 PM , Rating: 3
Another connector literally costs pennies in volume.


RE: new hardware
By Pirks on 3/13/2009 6:29:36 PM , Rating: 2
How much does it cost to develop, test and support the software/firmware/drivers for those external interfaces?


RE: new hardware
By TomZ on 3/13/2009 8:27:12 PM , Rating: 2
What does that have to do with the cost of production? Development costs are non-recurring, one-time.


RE: new hardware
By Pirks on 3/13/2009 8:47:13 PM , Rating: 2
It makes device development and production more expensive, even when it's one-time cost.


RE: new hardware
By FishTankX on 3/14/2009 12:06:20 PM , Rating: 3
The REAL reason why this would never happen, is...

It shifts the profits for expanded memory from apple, to memory card manufacturers.

Not to mention, at the moment, the difference between an 8GB and 16GB iPhone is about $100.

A quick search of several stores shows that to get equivalent boost in storage from SDHC would cost about $20.

There's a profit loss, there! Apple would loose the $80 or so they would make from the higher internal storage.

I'm sure sales of the higher capacity iPhones would plumet, if it became as simple as dropping in a 16GB uSDHC to double your storage. Nobody in their right mind would buy the 32GB one, if and when it comes out.


RE: new hardware
By croc on 3/13/2009 7:09:12 PM , Rating: 5
GM dealer to Volt owner:

"You bought windshield wipers from your auto parts store? Well, we'll have to tow it in to get them replaced with GM parts, then we can re-flash your firmware to get it back on the road. That'll be three days to service, and $1000, plus tow charges. Or you can buy a new Volt..."

I think that about sums up the "why" question.


RE: new hardware
By Pirks on 3/13/2009 7:13:51 PM , Rating: 1
There are DIY kits and guides about replacing iPhone battery, so your analogy doesn't work.


RE: new hardware
By croc on 3/13/2009 8:48:57 PM , Rating: 2
Any analogy that doesn't fit your narrow view will always be a bad analogy in your opinion...


RE: new hardware
By Pirks on 3/13/2009 9:13:13 PM , Rating: 2
WinPC fanatics say exactly the same to me when I use my Lexus analogy. So I use their weapon against them.


RE: new hardware
By croc on 3/14/2009 1:51:21 AM , Rating: 2
My take on osx / linux is a comment from a former collegue...

"A gui on Unix? That's wrong. Just plain wrong"

For REAL work, my Sparc11i will chew up a dual Xeon apple for breakfast, then use the carcass to pick its teeth.


RE: new hardware
By Pirks on 3/14/2009 2:26:21 AM , Rating: 2
Yeah, and some IBM POWER based box (or closet :)) will piss on you and your Sparc and fly away, so what? Intel CPUs are not the fastest CPUs on the planet, thanks Captain Obvious :))


RE: new hardware
By psychobriggsy on 3/14/2009 7:51:00 AM , Rating: 2
The reasonable expected lifetime of a car is at least 15 years.

Most mobile phones take a beating and get replaced at the end of their contract. Indeed if your phone company doesn't offer a reduced price for a rolling monthly contract after the monthly contract term, you might as well get the newer device, with more modern components, features and better battery life!

So far the argument against having 16GB of flash built in is that you can add a 2GB SD card instead by dismantling the phone, uncovering the microSD card slot and putting it in (as per other phones like my Nokia). Logic++. There will be a 32GB iPhone this year, and then people with 50GB libraries will complain, because they just must have all their library with them all the time...


RE: new hardware
By callmeroy on 3/13/2009 2:45:43 PM , Rating: 2
I'll get an iPhone with it when its not tied exclusively to AT&T (although they are my current provider -- I just like choice), when the iPhone doesn't scratch or get damaged so easily, when the iPhone is slashed in price again by at least 30-50% and when the service plans required to take advantage of them cost 30-50% less.....

In other words....when hell freezes over. :)


RE: new hardware
By omnicronx on 3/13/2009 11:27:59 AM , Rating: 3
Apple is in new waters here, I wonder if they do have a faster processor, how much will it be used? The entire design of the app-store requires pretty much the same hardware across the board, which is one of the big reasons for the app-stores success. Just ask a WinMo programmer about the difference in performance between devices with different speeds.

It wouldnt surprise me at all to see them putting a lock on custom apps for how much processing power they are allowed to use.


RE: new hardware
By bebesito21 on 3/13/2009 11:39:26 AM , Rating: 2
well the ipod touch was updated and it still works...im sure they can do the same for the phone. i bet a baseline performance standard is more important than the top end as long as the baseline gives a good experience. Kinda like having an ATI 4830 vs a 4870...both will play crysis but not at the same settings


RE: new hardware
By omnicronx on 3/13/2009 11:51:44 AM , Rating: 3
I understand this, but this requires extra coding. I really doubt all of those 20000 apps have kept this in mind. I understand it is probably only the 3d intensive games that will be affected, but I know for a fact games like touchsport tenis lowers the polygon count on the iphone and original ipod touch compared to the iphone 2g.

Perhaps we finally know why Apple cleverly underclocked that 600Mhz arm processor (beyond just having longer battery life) ;)


RE: new hardware
By omnicronx on 3/13/2009 11:52:29 AM , Rating: 2
*compared to the ipod touch 2g .


RE: new hardware
By Lord 666 on 3/13/2009 7:06:00 PM , Rating: 2
Apple iPhone/iTouch will soon support XM Sirius streaming without having a sat connectionn and just WiFi or cell signal via application.


RE: new hardware
By iamted on 3/16/2009 10:29:22 AM , Rating: 2
have you ever called around the world using a cell phone? it takes satellites to do that. so a cell tower gets a xm sirius signal and beams it to your iphone. its all just waves, no real big deal there.

its a racket to keep the ill informed bragging about something simple.


$500?
By DigitalFreak on 3/13/2009 12:55:02 PM , Rating: 5
quote:
We don't know how to make a $500 computer that's not a piece of junk.


Apple doesn't know how to make a $2000 computer that's not a piece of junk.




RE: $500?
By gstrickler on 3/13/09, Rating: -1
RE: $500?
By TomZ on 3/13/2009 1:36:58 PM , Rating: 4
What Jobs really meant is that all Apple's competitors that are making $500 computers are junk, which is obviously a self-serving opinion.

The fact is that it is quite easy for Apple's competitors to produce good quality $500 machines. HP and Dell sell them all day long, for example, and there are many other vendors doing the same.

Really, it is kind of silly for most people to ever spend more than $500 for a computer. The kind of performance available even at that price point is awesome and far exceeds what most people need for home use.


RE: $500?
By gstrickler on 3/13/09, Rating: -1
RE: $500?
By gstrickler on 3/13/09, Rating: -1
RE: $500?
By omnicronx on 3/13/2009 2:58:29 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
That gives only two Dell machines that can be purchased for under $500, and they're both over $500 if you upgrade to an OS with capabilities similar to Mac OS X.
As I've explained below this is not really the case. Even with the same CPU, 1 more gig of ram and twice the HD space, and Vista home premium (which is more than enough for 95% of the population so I'm not sure what you are talking about) is still only $540, $60 cheaper than the lower equipped mini.

A similarly equipped mini (i.e mini 320gb model) starts at $799. Thats a $360 difference.


RE: $500?
By omnicronx on 3/13/2009 3:07:46 PM , Rating: 2
Heh, whats funny is it looks like Dell just lowered their prices too. I just did the exact same setup adding wireless (because I forgot), an audigy HD soundcard and a happautage capture card for a grand total of 544 dollars. (or without the capcard and better soundcard(integrated is just as good as the minis) that number goes down to 459.

Of course you can't forget the mini comes with nothing but the computer itself, no keyboard, mouse or anything.


RE: $500?
By gstrickler on 3/13/2009 4:53:52 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
starts at $799. Thats a $360 difference.
Check your math. $800-$540 = $260, not $360. I noted in another post that you can get the base level Mac Mini, add a third party keyboard and mouse and upgrade the RAM and HD yourself for about $130, for a total price of about $730, so even comparing to a machine with Home Premium, the difference is under $200.

And as I pointed out in that post, it's an unfair price comparison since one uses laptop components and the other uses desktop components.

It's also unfair to compare the price of Vista Home Premium to Mac OS X because Home is restricted in it's networking capabilities, Mac OS X isn't. While Home Premium might be suitable for the typical home user, if you're trying to compare HARDWARE prices, you have to compare comparable OS versions (to take the software price differences out of the equation), and that means you have to compare to Vista Business.


RE: $500?
By omnicronx on 3/13/2009 7:41:35 PM , Rating: 2
Ya i noticed after my math was wrong. Any who, upgrading the HD to 320GB costs 200 dollars alone, so I don't know how you came to the conclusion that the upgrade was only 130$, because it is more like $250. If you didn't notice, these two pieces of hardware are the only thing that separates the two models. Furthermore it looks like Dell changed their prices today, you can get a computer with the same hardware as the 320GB mini model for 450 dollars, that's a 350 difference, and this time my math is correct ;)


RE: $500?
By psychobriggsy on 3/14/2009 8:25:38 AM , Rating: 3
My opinion is that Apple is making a mint in profit (probably $300) from the Mac Mini, yet doesn't want to risk losing $100 of that profit in order to gain more sales (making up for lost profit).

Yet they don't want to stand behind their hardware and offer a three year warranty by default. I would pay that $100 to get that. A proper boutique manufacturer stands behind their products. They don't nickel and dime you for a 3 year AppleCare warranty for a product that has a reasonable life expectancy of minimum 3 years. And I expect to be covered for those three years by default. It's time for the consumer to demand things for our money in a recession.


RE: $500?
By gstrickler on 3/14/2009 11:32:21 AM , Rating: 1
Your math may be correct, but you're still not comparing machines with equivalent hardware or software. I used today's pricing, Inspiron 530/530s, E5200 CPU, 2GB DDR2 RAM, 320GB 7200 RPM HD, ATI 3450 video card, integrated audio, bluetooth, Wi-Fi (B/G only), P1394a (FireWire 400) port, Vista Home Premium = $529 + $35 S&H = $554, with Vista Business = $654, plus sales tax.

Base model Mac Mini (P7350 or P7370 CPU), 1GB DDR3 RAM, 120GB HD, Nvidia 9400M, integrated audio, Bluetooth, Wi-Fi (A/B/G/n), FireWire 800 = $599 (free shipping or local Apple dealer), + 2GB DDR3 RAM from Crucial.com ($33+$4 S&H) + 320GB 7200 RPM HD +USB keyboard + optical mouse from Newegg.com ($99+$10 S&H) = $745, plus sales tax.

$745 - $654 = $ 94 difference for machines that are as identically configured as you can make them. If you want 4GB RAM an/or a 500GB HD, the difference is even less. With the Mac Mini, you've also got a spare 120GB HD and 1GB RAM. If you want Vista Ultimate or XP Pro, add $30 more to the Dell. Even if you compare to Vista Home Premium (which has less capability than Mac OS X), the difference is $194.

I came to the conclusion that it's about $130 for 2GB RAM, 320GB HD, kb & mouse by using THIRD PARTY (newegg.com) pricing, just as I said in the original post. It's $146 after adding $&H, which is included in the numbers above. Don't buy your upgrades from Apple or Dell, they both generally overprice RAM, CPU, and HD upgrades, because they can. Almost nobody who reads this site would pay Apple's or Dell's upgrade prices, they would do it themselves, so the above comparison is completely valid.

If you don't need Bluetooth, Wi-FI, or FireWire, and Vista Home Premium is good enough for you, and you already have a monitor, then you CAN get a computer that isn't junk for about $500 at today's prices, but you couldn't when Steve Jobs made that comment nearly a year ago. If you need a monitor, you still can't do it today unless you build your own from parts and that's not relevant to his comment.


RE: $500?
By Natfly on 3/14/2009 4:29:33 PM , Rating: 2
So you take a better equipped pc that is cheaper and tack on an OS upgrade because you say vista home premium is "insufficient." Yeah, ok buddy. And then you go off and start buying parts from crucial/newegg instead of using apple's hardware, real honest there. Yeah people could buy parts from other places, but we aren't comparing prices of dell versus newegg+apple.


RE: $500?
By gstrickler on 3/14/2009 7:14:51 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
So you take a better equipped pc that is cheaper and tack on an OS upgrade because you say vista home premium is "insufficient."
No, I take a Mac Mini and compare it comparably equipped PC, including an OS with comparable connectivity options. For comparable features, including networking, you have to compare Vista Business or XP Pro to OS X, Home Premium simply is NOT comparable.

I also clearly stated that if you don't need the comparable features on the PC, then, yes, you can get one for under $500 (around $465 with S&H) excluding monitor. That is about $135 less than the cheapest Mac, or about $280 less than the cheapest Mac you can get with the same amount of RAM and comparable HD, but that PC not a comparable machine (no Bluetooth, Wi-Fi, or FireWire, and a less capable OS). So yes, today, you can buy a $500 computer that isn't a piece of junk, but you couldn't 9-12 months ago when Steve Jobs made that statement.

I also stated that IMO, Vista Home Premium is insufficient because of it's limited networking, but that's completely separate from a comparison based upon what version offers comparable features. While Home Premium may be fine for most home users (assuming you like Vista), I primarily support people in a business environment and it's completely insufficient there.

quote:
go off and start buying parts from crucial/newegg instead of using apple's hardware
Yes, and I recommend doing the same thing with Dell, HP, etc, when they charge too much for a given upgrade. I almost never buy more than the base RAM from Dell, I can almost always get a better deal (and a better warranty) from Crucial. Same often applies to getting HD's from newegg. When Apple, Dell, HP/CPQ, etc. have upgrades that are competitively priced, I'll buy/recommend them, but when they don't, I don't recommend that anyone buy them.

quote:
real honest there.
Completely honest. I stated it very clearly in my post, wasn't hiding a thing or being deceptive in any way.

People keep claiming Macs are too expensive (which is an opinion, not a fact), I just demonstrated how you can get a real Mac with comparable hardware to a good PC, for less than $100 difference. People claim that you can't upgrade Macs, that's blatantly false, I've just given one example, I can give hundreds of others.

PC's do have a lower entry price, but if that's your main criteria in buying a machine, then build your own from parts and run a free Linux. PCs may also be less expensive for a comparable configuration to a Mac, but when you price comparable machines, and use good judgement about where you buy any upgrades from the base model, the price difference isn't that much. In some cases (not demonstrated here, but I can show one if you want), the Mac is slightly cheaper than a comparably equipped PC.

I support PCs and Macs, and program for both. I own PC's and Macs, but mostly I use a Mac. On average, I spend 1.5 hours more per machine per month to maintain a PC than a Mac. My time is valuable, that's over $150 per month per machine more to support a PC, which more than makes up for the small premium for the Mac hardware and OS.


RE: $500?
By bigboxes on 3/16/2009 10:17:25 AM , Rating: 2
and while you are "upgrading parts yourself" you might as well build your own and save even more. You conveniently forget that Apple is a closed proprietary system that offers the least for your $$. You want to flush your paycheck down the toilet for an overrated, overpriced fashion accessory then by all means have at it. Just don't even attempt to compare the value of a mac to a pc. You just look silly.


RE: $500?
By TomZ on 3/13/2009 3:15:49 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
GMA X4500HD ... low performance
Compared to what? That's the fastest integrated graphics available today and is powerful enough for full 1080p video. Unless you're going to do heavy-duty gaming, that's more than sufficient for most users, especially at a sub-$500 price point.

I build an HTPC pretty cheaply using a motherboard with X4500HD, and it works pretty well. The only gotcha with that solution is that it doesn't seem to support HDCP, which makes Blu-ray playback impossible, as I understand it. So maybe it is not the best choice for an HTPC, although frankly, I won't be using it for Blu-ray movies anyway (still have a discrete player for that).


RE: $500?
By Pirks on 3/13/2009 4:01:26 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
That's the fastest integrated graphics available today
Intel GMA 4500 is the fastest integrated graphics available today? Are you sick or drunk today, Tom? Did someone erase words "ATI" and "nVidia" from your mind?

Tom is the last guy I'd expect to hear such words from, he seems to be more technically literate than an average guy but now I just don't know what to say. Apparently he's got a baaaaad day today or something...


RE: $500?
By TomZ on 3/13/2009 4:57:05 PM , Rating: 2
Yes, sorry, my bad.

But my main point still stands, which is that the Intel graphics solution is plenty fast enough for most people, especially for a low-cost desktop.


RE: $500?
By gstrickler on 3/13/2009 4:35:24 PM , Rating: 3
Compared to an Nvidia 9300M/9400M, or an AMD 780G/790G.
quote:
That's the fastest integrated graphics available today
Not even close. It's the fastest from Intel, but that's not saying much.


RE: $500?
By Pirks on 3/13/09, Rating: 0
RE: $500?
By Whaaambulance on 3/13/2009 4:48:23 PM , Rating: 3
But you are yourself everyday. We can always expect the same biased and opinionated statements from you on a regular basis.


RE: $500?
By LRonaldHubbs on 3/13/2009 5:12:44 PM , Rating: 2
At least it's really easy to decide how to rate his posts. He doesn't waste our time with things like facts, sources, or justification of opinions. Nope, he gets right to the point, which just so happens to always be the same point: that Apple can do no wrong, EVER. That is his point, isn't it? :shrugs:


RE: $500?
By Pirks on 3/13/09, Rating: -1
RE: $500?
By LRonaldHubbs on 3/13/2009 5:45:32 PM , Rating: 2
The customer is always right, and I am the customer.


RE: $500?
By Pirks on 3/13/09, Rating: -1
RE: $500?
By Whaaambulance on 3/13/2009 6:07:45 PM , Rating: 1
You call people a liar whenever they disagree with you. Who is to say you aren't a liar yourself? I don't ever see you backing any of your statements up with hard cold facts.

Because they aren't facts. They are your opinions, which just might be a pack of lies. Liar.

:)


RE: $500?
By Pirks on 3/13/09, Rating: -1
RE: $500?
By Whaaambulance on 3/13/2009 7:08:14 PM , Rating: 1
If I make a statement, I back it up. I only made a statement about you being a hypocrite, which is evident here.


RE: $500?
By Pirks on 3/13/09, Rating: -1
RE: $500?
By omnicronx on 3/13/2009 7:33:05 PM , Rating: 2
Don't you have an iCult meeting to get too?


RE: $500?
By Pirks on 3/13/2009 7:33:55 PM , Rating: 2
Nope :P


RE: $500?
By omnicronx on 3/13/2009 7:44:03 PM , Rating: 2
And I thought you were dedicated =/


RE: $500?
By Pirks on 3/13/2009 7:48:17 PM , Rating: 2
Hey, you've missed your WinCult meeting too, so don't blame me!


RE: $500?
By Whaaambulance on 3/13/2009 7:54:57 PM , Rating: 3
Get your own material.


RE: $500?
By omnicronx on 3/13/2009 8:01:13 PM , Rating: 3
I do blame you. Some Mac user drove me off the road because he saw me use the cut in paste feature on my WinMo phone, and went insane! I could have sworn the license plate said 'Pirks' but I can't be sure because of the residual smug clouds ;)


RE: $500?
By Pirks on 3/13/09, Rating: -1
RE: $500?
By omnicronx on 3/13/2009 2:48:42 PM , Rating: 2
The comment he made was $500 PC's in general, not necessarily below.

The dell Inspiron 530s can be had for 375 base with a celeron 2ghz and intel 3100 which I agree is not very good. That being said, upgrading to a Core2 5200 cpu and ATI 3450 HD GPU rings in at a few dollars shy of $500.

Other things to compare:

2Gig of ram from dell vs 1 gig standard on mini
320GB HD DELL vs 120GB standard on mini.
Dell has no firewire, Mac does

In order to get a comparable system you would have to opt for the better Mac mini model.

The only time I would buy a mac mini over a PC is if form factor makes a difference to you, and even then you can get a top of the line case and then some for a PC for the difference in price.

I almost purchased a mini for my htpc setup, but opted to make what I consider a better looking HTPC for 2/3 the price.


RE: $500?
By gstrickler on 3/13/2009 3:47:26 PM , Rating: 2
Agreed, the 530s with a CPU and GPU upgrade is a decent machine that you can get for under $500 (albeit with Vista Home Premium). In terms of hardware, that's somewhat better than a Mac Mini (about the same for CPU/GPU, but more RAM & better HD). You can add FireWire for $30 (although it's FireWire 400, not 800).

It's a bit of an unfair price comparison in that the 530s uses desktop CPU, GPU, and HD and the Mac Mini uses laptop components which are more expensive, but the smaller size is probably not an issue for most buyers so it's is a valid comparison.

If you do configure the 530s with the above CPU, GPU, FireWire, Bluetooth, Wi-Fi, and Vista Business, then it's $630 compared to a Mac Mini (with Apple's keyboard and overpriced "Mighty Mouse") at $697. If you get the base Mac Mini, add a third party keyboard, mouse, 2GB RAM, and 320GB 7200 RPM HD, you're looking at about $730, so a Mac Mini using laptop components is about $100 more than a similarly configured Dell 530s using desktop components and Vista Business. Not really that big a difference.


RE: $500?
By omnicronx on 3/13/2009 7:49:17 PM , Rating: 2
Don't forget with laptop components come laptop speeds ;) The HD is only 5400rpm on the mini. The difference in cost between the a 2.5" 5400rpm drive and a 3.5" 7200RPM drive is pretty damn close.

I do agree as I said in my other post that the form factor is an advantage and will cost more, but the price differential is still not warranted.


RE: $500?
By gstrickler on 3/14/2009 11:39:18 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
with laptop components come laptop speeds
That's true on the HD and sometimes the video, but it makes no difference on any other component today. Even the difference on the HD is minimal.


RE: $500?
By Pirks on 3/13/2009 3:57:59 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
it is kind of silly for most people to ever spend more than $500 for a computer
It's also silly to spend more than $20k for a car, eh? :)

The world if full of silly people, and only a few smarties like Tom buy only the cheapo goods 'cause it's "da smart way"! *LOLzzz* :)))


RE: $500?
By omnicronx on 3/13/2009 7:51:19 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
It's also silly to spend more than $20k for a car, eh? :)
The difference being a 20k car does not go from 0-60 in under 8 seconds (min) ;) What everyday benefit does spending more than 500 dollars on a home PC have?


RE: $500?
By Pirks on 3/13/2009 7:54:18 PM , Rating: 2
Size, looks, energy consumption, OS and preinstalled apps.


RE: $500?
By Whaaambulance on 3/13/2009 8:05:04 PM , Rating: 3
I own a Macbook Pro and an iPhone, and even I can admit that it's more about the looks than the substance.

I also build my own PC's. I know the benefits and minuses of both. When you buy an Apple product, you are buying a brand. You are buying an ideal.

This argument you continue to make about looks is ridiculous. There is always going to be people that pay more for products because they look better. Same with cars. There are alot of high-dollar cars that don't perform as well as some cheaper ones but the point is that a person wants what they want.

Some people would rather save money and get something just as good for less money.

Apple is and always will be a niche market. That isn't a bad thing. So comparing them to machines that are made for the mass market isn't really a fair comparison. The majority want to save money, and Apple doesn't cater to them. End of discussion.


RE: $500?
By omnicronx on 3/13/2009 8:21:27 PM , Rating: 2
R.I.P - Pirk's entire argument.


RE: $500?
By Pirks on 3/13/2009 8:35:28 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Apple is and always will be a niche market
Are you REALLY sure iPod is a niche product? ;-)


RE: $500?
By Targon on 3/13/2009 9:06:04 PM , Rating: 3
You are not buying an ideal, you are buying into a religious cult.


RE: $500?
By meepstone on 3/14/2009 7:50:10 PM , Rating: 2
well theres 2k laptops arent junk but you can easily find ones that are better and cheaper. the macbooks are overpriced. paying for the name brand isnt worth the money.


RE: $500?
By Spectator on 3/13/2009 1:36:04 PM , Rating: 2
I think he means a form over function deal.

Its way expensive to make things all arty and pretty. after all that is Apple's market(Its got to look pretty above all) :P


We don't know how to make a $500 computer...
By quiksilvr on 3/13/2009 11:11:32 AM , Rating: 3
Because we know we have enough idiotic consumers that will spend $600 on a Mac Mini.




By LRonaldHubbs on 3/13/2009 11:21:06 AM , Rating: 4
LOL @ Pirks

Just wanted to throw that out there in advance of his reply...


By Whaaambulance on 3/13/2009 11:24:44 AM , Rating: 3
I second this.

lol@Pirks


By retrospooty on 3/13/2009 12:37:21 PM , Rating: 3
3rd!!! =)


RE: We don't know how to make a $500 computer...
By hiscross on 3/13/09, Rating: -1
RE: We don't know how to make a $500 computer...
By omnicronx on 3/13/2009 12:40:40 PM , Rating: 2
What's your point? I have had Intel and AMD computers for 4-5-6+ years.. Furthermore he never implied anything about the build quality. (and I don't know why he would either, aside from the case, its exactly the same parts found in other PC's)
quote:
Now that I said that, if any of you idiots out that have a problem how I spend MY money, I'll be glad to provide you why it is non of your f*cken business. Is that clear?
Who ever said he had a problem with it? Calling you an idiot because you paid more for a product than you should have does not imply he has a problem with you buying one.

Spend you money as you wish, we don't care, but just because it is your money, does not mean you are spending your money wisely.


RE: We don't know how to make a $500 computer...
By Pirks on 3/13/2009 3:49:52 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
does not mean you are spending your money wisely
And who exactly gave you the right to judge if people spend their money "wisely" or "not wisely"? Any degree from some graduate school, like a "Master of Spending Science" or something? Show us your credentials please. 'Cause if you just talk because you "firmly believe" in it, well, then you're just like any fanatic and nobody should listen to you.


By LRonaldHubbs on 3/13/2009 4:16:09 PM , Rating: 5
quote:
Cause if you just talk because you "firmly believe" in it, well, then you're just like any fanatic and nobody should listen to you.

Oh, the irony.


By psychobriggsy on 3/14/2009 8:05:20 AM , Rating: 2
Value for money is in the eye of the beholder.

If I had spare money (beyond essential savings, etc) and a need for a new computer then I would consider buying a Mac Mini, despite the price, because for me it would be a reasonable computer - quiet, small, etc. Indeed for the size class it is good value.

The problem is that Apple don't compete in any desktop computer configurations above that until you get to their workstations, which again compete well on price with competitor's equivalently specified options. If Apple made a "Mac" that was around 4x the volume of the Mini, then they could have more cooling == faster desktop CPUs, a 3.5" hard drive for more storage, full sized DIMM slots for memory, etc, all at the same cost.

As it is my two year old AMD X2 system beats the Mac Mini in cost, and its only downside is being a bit bulky and noisy. Oh, and not having Mac OS X, but I don't think it's worth getting into that argument here.


By Larrymon2000 on 3/13/2009 1:12:34 PM , Rating: 2
Well it's natural for you to have attitude and get defensive, but your argument is moot. Nobody cares that your computer has been stable for 2+ years (I've had 5 PCs and none of them have failed either. Nice anecdotal "evidence"). What we do care about is the fact that people spend far more money than they should for a similar product. THAT'S being an idiot, no matter how you slice it.


RE: We don't know how to make a $500 computer...
By Pirks on 3/13/2009 4:19:42 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
What we do care about is the fact that people spend far more money than they should for a similar product. THAT'S being an idiot
So if someone buys expensive Lexus instead of a cheaper SIMILAR Toyota, he or she is an idiot?


By LRonaldHubbs on 3/13/2009 4:40:34 PM , Rating: 3
It is a distinct possibility.


RE: We don't know how to make a $500 computer...
By Pirks on 3/13/2009 5:22:44 PM , Rating: 2
You can say that about any human being so your answer is a waste of space here. Let's see if someone says something a little more concrete.


By LRonaldHubbs on 3/13/2009 5:49:33 PM , Rating: 2
Yes, I certainly can. Most people are idiots, and I make no attempt to gloss over that fact.


RE: We don't know how to make a $500 computer...
By Pirks on 3/13/2009 6:00:38 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Most people are idiots
Does it correlate with the fact that most people use Windows?


RE: We don't know how to make a $500 computer...
By TomZ on 3/13/2009 6:13:39 PM , Rating: 2
Just as much as it explains the popularity of iPod, iTunes, and iPhone. Products and services that would not exist except for idiots who think that Jobs invented the personal music player.

It's been said before, and I'll say it again. Apple could put a pile of sh!t in a white box and sell it, and people would buy it, as long as the box was white and looked nice.


By Pirks on 3/13/2009 6:20:47 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
as much as it explains the popularity of iPod, iTunes, and iPhone
Hey, look, TomZ just admitted that Windows and iPod buying people are idiots! Hehe good thing I haven't bought either :P
quote:
Apple could put a pile of sh!t in a white box and sell it, and people would buy it, as long as the box was white and looked nice
Not a fact, just an opinion (C) Whaaambulance


By Doormat on 3/13/2009 12:12:38 PM , Rating: 2
Huh? The new mini isn't all that bad for a Mac. Not having intel graphics is a huge plus. Its irrelevant to you kids who measure your e-peen by how many nvidia graphics cards you have SLI'd in your PC.


By luseferous on 3/13/2009 12:58:11 PM , Rating: 2
Easy, go for less than the usual 100% mark up.


By hiscross on 3/13/2009 1:53:50 PM , Rating: 1
Well quickersh*ter started the whole thing with this comment "Because we know we have enough idiotic consumers that will spend $600 on a Mac Mini." so just wanted to point out how screwed up the comment was. Now I see there seems to plenty of screw-ups to go around.


By Pirks on 3/13/2009 3:53:54 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
We don't know how to make a decent $500 computer...
...hence we'll make you a decent mini-tablet for $599 or so.


Wish List for 3.0
By Skilty on 3/13/2009 2:52:34 PM , Rating: 2
OK so like most I would like to see:

Cut and Paste
Adobe Flash support
PDF reader

In addition:

A to do list in the calendar app

MMS (Yes I know there is an app in the App Store but why pay for MMS if it is covered in your call plan?)

But one feature I can't understand that isn't in there is the ability to forward a text!

Cheers

Skilty




RE: Wish List for 3.0
By Whaaambulance on 3/13/2009 3:06:05 PM , Rating: 2
Here is a nice feature list comparison of the iPhone:

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=ip...


RE: Wish List for 3.0
By bigizzy on 3/13/2009 3:24:15 PM , Rating: 2
The iPhone can already open PDF files.


RE: Wish List for 3.0
By Targon on 3/13/2009 9:07:29 PM , Rating: 2
Flash is not the same thing as PDF.


RE: Wish List for 3.0
By psychobriggsy on 3/14/2009 8:12:08 AM , Rating: 2
What's Flash got to do with PDF. The original poster said "PDF support", and the response said that the iPhone indeed supports PDF viewing.

Maybe he meant that the iPhone should let you download and save PDF documents for later reference. But surely the same could be said for all files you could download?


By Chaser on 3/13/2009 12:23:51 PM , Rating: 2
By omnicronx on 3/13/2009 12:45:53 PM , Rating: 2
How much you want to bet AT&T won't support tethering even if it is added ;)

It will undermine the cell broadband card market.


By Chaser on 3/13/2009 1:38:51 PM , Rating: 2
Do Blackjack II's and other AT&T cells phone models undermind the cell broadband card market?


By tjr508 on 3/14/2009 9:49:20 AM , Rating: 2
I'm tethered to a blackjack i607 right now.


I only want the simple things...
By probedb on 3/13/2009 12:26:06 PM , Rating: 2
MMS
Copy and Paste
Ability to delete/forward individual text messages

Not much to ask is it Apple?




By FITCamaro on 3/13/2009 1:59:55 PM , Rating: 2
Sorcery I say. SORCERY!


RE: I only want the simple things...
By TomZ on 3/13/2009 2:05:17 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Not much to ask is it Apple?
Maybe Jobs, in his current weakened state, will finally lose his resolve to continue to deny users such basic functionality.


By JasonMick (blog) on 3/13/2009 3:44:35 PM , Rating: 2
Don't mistake the wizening of his body from the dark side of the force for weakness. He still is more than capable of denying his customers, and killing the occasional enemy with iForce lightning.


Now we know...
By gstrickler on 3/13/2009 12:13:06 PM , Rating: 2
Saw this at the bottom of the page.
quote:
"Intel is investing heavily (think gazillions of dollars and bazillions of engineering man hours) in resources to create an Intel host controllers spec in order to speed time to market of the USB 3.0 technology." -- Intel blogger Nick Knupffer
Now we know who was responsible for the Pentium FP bug.




Intelliscreen
By Alphafox78 on 3/13/2009 12:31:35 PM , Rating: 2
its sad but my WISH for the iphone is that when I look down at the screen it would show me if I have an email without unlocking it.... doesn't seem to difficult to me. (and I don't mean the little number on the mail icon, I mean before you unlock it where it says the time)




iPhone = No AT&T Warranty
By Whaaambulance on 3/13/2009 4:59:23 PM , Rating: 2
That, among other things are my major complaints about the iPhone. Whereas other phone companies insure your phone, allowing free replacement should it be lost or damaged, AT&T does not, unfortunately.

Just thought I would throw that out there incase anyone had any reservations about purchasing an iPhone.




Mac Bashing
By madmuffin on 3/23/2009 5:20:35 AM , Rating: 2
What up with all the M$ die hard fans. If you have £1500 to spend on a laptop and want to go mac fair enough! You dont have to mone and grone that you have been ripped off. OS 10.5 is 1000X better than vista!

I have a Mac and a Vista PC. I got my Mac over 2 years ago and im still on the first install, Got my Vista at xmas had 3 reinstalls since! They both have there pros and cons. Buy what you can afford and what suites you needs!




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