backtop


Print 68 comment(s) - last by XPinMac.. on Apr 8 at 12:22 AM


Setting up a Windows XP drivers CD

Selectable startup disk
Intel-Macs owners now have an official second OS option

Ever since the release of Apple's Intel-based Macs, the user community has been attempting to find ways to install Windows XP on their Macs. Because of issues regarding how Apple has designed its new computers, initial attempts at installing Windows XP were met with frustration. While a method has now been devised to install Windows, most users are staying away due to the complexity of the method and the risks involved. Lack of proper drivers is also a factor.

Today however, Apple has released what it calls Boot Camp Beta, a download for current Intel-Mac owners that allows them to install Windows XP without hacking their Windows XP installation CD. Apple says that in its next major release of OS X, called Leopard, Boot Camp will be fully integrated. For now, users can download the 85MB Boot Camp Beta directly from Apple's website.

Boot Camp lets you install Windows XP without moving your Mac data, though you will need to bring your own copy to the table, as Apple Computer does not sell or support Microsoft Windows. Boot Camp will burn a CD of all the required drivers for Windows so you don't have to scrounge around the Internet looking for them.

Apple's Boot Camp will also provide users with officially working drivers to get their Windows XP up and running. Thanks Orochi for the head's up!

The official Apple guide is available here (PDF).

Update: We have confirmed that this does work however, those who choose to go into domain login mode in Windows XP, beware: the MacBook Pro does not have a "delete" key. The DELETE key on the MacBook Pro is actually Backspace. Since Windows XP requires that you press CTRL + ALT + DEL in order to login in domain mode, this won't be possible unless you attach an external USB keyboard with a real Delete key or disable secure domain login mode (turns off the CTRL ALT DEL request) before restarting Windows XP to apply domain login mode.


Comments     Threshold


This article is over a month old, voting and posting comments is disabled

lets perfect it for PC's first
By poohbear on 4/5/2006 10:22:47 AM , Rating: 3
heck i can't install winXP on my PC without problems let alone on an apple. :0




RE: lets perfect it for PC's first
By Griswold on 4/5/2006 11:34:13 AM , Rating: 4
In most cases, the error sits in front of the keyboard.

Just a heads up.


By Madellga on 4/5/2006 2:46:24 PM , Rating: 2
There is a joke about it in portuguese:
"BIOS = Bicho Idiota Operando Sistema"

That translates into something like:
Idiot Animal Operating (the)System

Therefore, you can always say it is a BIOS problem, not necessarily meaning the motherboard BIOS.....


RE: lets perfect it for PC's first
By bob661 on 4/5/2006 2:58:27 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
In most cases, the error sits in front of the keyboard.
Ha! Isn't that true!


By poohbear on 4/5/2006 11:40:44 PM , Rating: 2
sure, if he's a geek then he deserves that title. but when the person infront of the keyboard is your avg user, it really doesnt help to tell him he's the error. Apple is much more user friendly for the avg user, dont see why they need winxp over there.


What about OSX on a PC?
By CBone on 4/5/2006 11:46:15 AM , Rating: 1
I'd be more interested in dual-boot OSX/XP on my current PC. If MS could ever get an OS to the point where I can install dual/multi-core CPUs or different chipsets without having to reinstall XP, people would be interested.

Picture it, transition from AMD to Intel, "new hardware detected... installing drivers... Welcome to Windows". Too bad it won't happen.





RE: What about OSX on a PC?
By Wonga on 4/5/2006 12:56:12 PM , Rating: 2
Windows 2000/XP WILL let you move to a dual core CPU without a reinstall - it picks up the second CPU, installs the driver and wants a reboot, easy as that.

Regarding different chipsets - a lot of the time that will work as well, as long as the HAL layer is the same (off the top of my head). The only reason people don't do that all the time is because it supposedly has a detrimental effect on performance.

Anyway, if I ever do overhaul my PC and upgrade the motherboard and everything else, I'd personally choose to reinstall Windows, since a clean install is always going to be quicker over a 4 year old multiple-utilities-installed set up.


RE: What about OSX on a PC?
By TomZ on 4/5/2006 2:49:33 PM , Rating: 2
You don't need to reinstall XP if you change the chipset. I recently moved a hard drive from a dual-processor AMD system into a completely different single-processor Intel system and it worked fine.

The WinXP installation took a couple minutes to load up the new drivers. The only issue was the old system used ATI drivers, and I had to manually uninstall the ATI control panel software before the system would recognize the new video hardware and install drivers for that.

Pretty much the case you described!


RE: What about OSX on a PC?
By rrsurfer1 on 4/5/2006 4:06:48 PM , Rating: 2
I recently upgraded a PC with a new MB and CPU (Intel Cel to AMD Semp) and had the opposite experience... got a blue screen on start-up. It probably depends on the switch.


RE: What about OSX on a PC?
By johnsonx on 4/5/2006 5:06:16 PM , Rating: 2
It just depends on exactly what is different between the two mainboards and whether Windows can deal with it. Sometimes it works fine, sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes it seems to work, but then Windows runs a little 'weird'. I had some in the past that worked fine, but then blew up later when SP2 was applied (indeed, the ONLY trouble I've ever had with SP2 was on machines that'd previously had a motherboard change).

Usually a simple Repair install of Windows XP will fix it, but I've run into one or two that required a New install of XP.

One change that seems to ALWAYS fail is if you're going from non-APIC to APIC (or vice versa). A Repair install of XP is always needed in this case.

Another note (yes, I realize this whole bit is a bit off the topic), if your system has SP2 on it, then you'll want to do your Repair re-install with an SP2 disk; slipstream it and burn it yourself if you have to.


dual boot? i don't know about that...
By Fenixgoon on 4/5/2006 10:46:45 AM , Rating: 2
how many people (AVERAGE consumers) will want to dual boot? most of us probably have 50 different linux distros plus XP :D




Apple's Future
By Middleman on 4/5/06, Rating: 0
By peternelson on 4/5/2006 11:23:56 AM , Rating: 2
Will apple provide equal support to people wanting to dualboot OSX with OTHER operating systems eg Suse Linux?

Maybe this Apple easy-XP thing is a change to the bios to allow easier booting? If so, those changes might make it possible/easier to substitute Linux for XP in this development.

In any case I won't be buying any Apple Intels until they have a 64 bit processor in them.


RE: dual boot? i don't know about that...
By Xenoterranos on 4/5/2006 12:41:08 PM , Rating: 2
All modern cpu's use RISC internally, just with x86 instructions kindof 'layered' on top...But I understand your argument. This is no longer a unique computing platform. It's just another pc. What really differentiates Apple's PC's is Mac OS X, which is why we'll probably never see a general version of the OS for sale.
Then again, given all this news, apple may be trying to expand all the way, encompasing PC, software, and maybe even server sales eventually. Could we one day see a Dell and MS competitor all rolled into one spiffy cupertino package? Who knows. After apple switched to Intel cpu's, all the old logic went out the window.


By aGreenAgent on 4/5/2006 2:22:30 PM , Rating: 2
Are you sure they use RISC internally? I know AMD does that, but I thought Intels were CISC internally.


OK, now get OSX to dual boot on my Win XP PC
By ketwyld on 4/5/2006 11:08:41 AM , Rating: 2
OK, about 2 or 3 weeks ago, someone creates a hack to dual boot XP on an Intel-Mac. Makes me think that someone at Apple already had this in their desk drawer, since they released this well-polished "beta" so quickly.

Good work, Apple. Now let me dual boot OSX on MY PC.




RE: OK, now get OSX to dual boot on my Win XP PC
By Cincybeck on 4/5/2006 11:47:12 AM , Rating: 1
If I had to speculate I would say thats what they're after.. A more direct attack at windows? But then again doesn't Bill Gates/Microsoft own half or more then half of Apple or has that changed in recent years?


By obeseotron on 4/5/2006 12:52:36 PM , Rating: 2
MS never owned any part of Apple. They floated them some cash back when Apple was about to go under. It was a business loan so Apple could finish among other things, OS X. I assume some of the iPod windfall has long since paid back this half billion dollar loan. That last 2% of marketshare is much less important to MS than the appearance of total monopoly, probably the motivation behind the loan. They also make plenty on Mac Office.


By rrsurfer1 on 4/5/2006 11:52:44 AM , Rating: 2
Ha, yea I find it funny this was released very shortly after somebody "hacked" a way to do it with a custom XP CD.

As for dual booting on the PC, there's the driver compatibility issues which would be a pain to resolve. Apple has it good because they have very selective hardware they need to make work under Windows and therefore can make and offer those specific drivers at much lower cost than if they had to get 100 different type of hardware compatible.


Enlightenment
By Egglick on 4/5/2006 11:52:43 AM , Rating: 3
Allowing Macs to run Windows won't "hurt" them so to speak, but I have a feeling that it will take away some of the aura surrounding Macs, which in the long run may be detrimental.

People might eventually start to realize the truth, which is that when it comes down to it, the only thing that makes an Apple "different" these days is the operating system, and the shiny case they come in.




RE: Enlightenment
By inthell on 4/5/2006 1:06:14 PM , Rating: 2
its a good move by Apple as their bread nad butter is hardware sales not OSX/software. and with XP support the company will get more system sales from say Dell.


RE: Enlightenment
By kelmon on 4/5/2006 2:04:35 PM , Rating: 2
I would disagree, to a degree. There's no doubt that OS X is very definitely a plus-point to Apple but I'd extend that to the software in general. The iLife suite, for example, comes with a new computer and you just can't find anything like it anywhere else, plus it acts a linch pin for many other software applications that can take advantage of these stores of digital media. Heck, I even prefer Office:mac 2004 to Office 2003, although mostly due to the formating pallette that gives me much easier access to the tools that I want, particularly styles.

I'd also note that while I have not had the benefit of trying every item of hardware going, I've found my old PowerBook to be a much nicer computer to use than the Dell/HP laptops that I'd had before. As far as I am concerned the hardware is worth the price premium. I've had a play with a MacBook Pro and look forwards to getting one of them later in the year when Merom arrives.


Support
By ADH on 4/5/2006 3:27:56 PM , Rating: 3
"Boot Camp lets you install Windows XP without moving your Mac data, though you will need to bring your own copy to the table, as Apple Computer does not sell or support Microsoft Windows. "

Just thought that should be clear about those who think the genius bar will be littered with those looking for WinXP support.




RE: Support
By bfullwood on 4/5/2006 3:47:29 PM , Rating: 2
I guarantee I do not have the knowledge that most on here have but I do have a Mac. What is the difference between the announcement today and the App, Virtual PC?
I can run Virtual PC on my mac and run anything windows I want. What can this do that Virtual PC cant?
Thanks.


RE: Support
By rrsurfer1 on 4/5/2006 4:15:33 PM , Rating: 2
Virtual PC is basically an emulator that "interprets" the x86 instruction set used on PC's, and therefore Windows, into the equivalent instructions for the RISC based mac processors. With the advent of Intel x86 CPU's in Macs, there is no need for this interpretation. This means that using the "Boot Camp" will be *MUCH* faster than Virtual PC. Theoretically there should be no performance hit since you have windows stand-alone.

Keep in mind, this "Boot Camp" will only work if you have a Mac with an Intel CPU. Older macs will still require Virtual PC to interpret the instructions.


What about Media Center?
By Bonrock on 4/5/2006 1:50:21 PM , Rating: 2
I was looking at the Apple web site and I noticed that Boot Camp only supports Windows XP Home and Windows XP Professional. The site specifically says that Windows XP Media Center Edition is not supported. Does anyone know why this is? I wasn't aware of any significant technical difference between XP Media Center and XP Home--as far as I know, Media Center is just an enhanced version of Home.




RE: What about Media Center?
By feraltoad on 4/5/2006 3:32:06 PM , Rating: 2
That's really interesting. Yeah I find that strange as well, perhaps Apple doesn't want MCE to compete with FrontRow on their machines until people have actually heard of it.

The only difference with MCE, besides the app, is that it has a WHQL list of hardware it is supposed to definitely supposed to work with. (2 my knowledge) As far as system requirments they are overspeced to make sure people don't get a crappy experience after they load down their system tray with loads of junk and get some spyware on there. :) I had mce 2004 on a 1.4 athlon xp (896 ram) and a 2.2 athlon xp (512 ram) and it ran fine on both so I can't imagine system requirments being a consideration for a new Mac.


RE: What about Media Center?
By johnsonx on 4/6/2006 12:05:30 AM , Rating: 2
no tuner card support maybe?


A Big Step
By jfowler27 on 4/5/2006 10:39:51 AM , Rating: 3
This is a big step in the right direction for Apple. Since the computer market is filled with Windows machines many consumers have not wanted to hassle with a machine like a Mac that would not allow other OSs on it as easily as x86 computers. This may be a big plus to businesses that like the reliability of Macs, but still have a lot of work and programs that will only run on Windows.

Now Apple's next step needs to be to license out the Mac OS. At this point they really have no need not to and it would put some nice pressure in the market. There hasn't been even competition in the OS market for over a decade.




RE: A Big Step
By Griswold on 4/5/2006 11:38:44 AM , Rating: 2
Licensing/Selling OSX would only put pressure on Apple, as they would lose the cash from selling hardware.

I know, I might actually buy OSX to run it on my self built, to my needs customized box, if its not ridiculously overpriced. But I would certainly not pay for the hardware with an apple on it.

Of course, this is wishful thinking. Getting OSX to support all those flavours of hardware is not something you can do overnight and it would probably turn OSX into what Windows is today.


Photoshop
By Great Googly Moogly on 4/5/2006 3:54:41 PM , Rating: 3
Hey, look at that, now you can actually run Photoshop on that Macintosh!




RE: Photoshop
By shadowzz on 4/5/2006 4:30:18 PM , Rating: 2
oh god... the ironey!


ummm.
By Quiksel on 4/5/2006 2:43:37 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Update: We have confirmed that this does work however, those who choose to go into domain login mode in Windows XP, beware: the MacBook Pro does not have a "delete" key. The DELETE key on the MacBook Pro is actually Backspace. Since Windows XP requires that you press CTRL + ALT + DEL in order to login in domain mode, this won't be possible unless you attach an external USB keyboard with a real Delete key or disable secure domain login mode (turns off the CTRL ALT DEL request) before restarting Windows XP to apply domain login mode.


Umm., but if I remember correctly, using the Fn+Backspace key is the equivalent to a "DELETE" key in Windows. So do a CTRL+OPTION+FN+BACKSPACE to get your CTRL+ALT+DEL.

Jeez. Someone check this for me please? I don't have a cool MacBook Pro, but this works as advertised on my PBG4 when I RDC into a windows box.

Hope this resolves this potential "OH NOES, Apple HATES DOMAINS!!!11ONETWO" stuff that would be bound to follow.




RE: ummm.
By Tuan Nguyen on 4/5/2006 6:36:26 PM , Rating: 2
That doesn't work on the MBP.


Tuan


I will never understand...
By AppaYipYip on 4/5/06, Rating: 0
RE: I will never understand...
By rrsurfer1 on 4/5/2006 4:21:17 PM , Rating: 4
Cause... the majority of software is written for Windows. Now Mac users can use OSX for what software is actually written for the Mac, and switch to the "inferior" Windows OS for the stuff that isn't available in Mac versions.

What are you whining about, if you don't want Windows you certainly don't have to install it. If you want Apple to hang around for awhile (which I'm guessing you do, since your comment is about as Fanboy as it gets) you should realize this was a very smart move on their part, even though I still believe it was influenced by the recently published hack to accomplish this task.


Big Deal
By Yelapaboy on 4/5/2006 5:29:34 PM , Rating: 2
So I can run XP on an overpriced boutique computer. What would be exciting would be if I could dual boot a decent home built PC, the only thing remotely intersting about Apple is the OS. Owning Apple hardware has about the same appeal to me as putting Sharper Image gadgets in my bathroom or Bose speakers in my living room.




RE: Big Deal
By the Chase on 4/5/2006 6:37:04 PM , Rating: 2
Couldn't have said it better myself! C'mon Steve, set OS X free!! I'll pay you 20% more for it than a Retail copy of XP.


Games?
By cjsketchy on 4/5/2006 6:38:37 PM , Rating: 2
So... anyone know if the ATI drivers will work properly under WinXP on a Mac? If so, that'd be awesome, it's really the only thing holding me back from buying one. Would love to play some newer games on it... not just world of warcraft :)




RE: Games?
By insertnicknamehere on 4/6/2006 10:06:15 AM , Rating: 2
That's what interests me...
Let's be honest, a macbookpro has comprable components to an acer travelmate 8200, for about the same price. If I can run OSX for only a small price premium and still be able to load up windows to play games (the mobility x1600 is no slouch for mobile gaming!) Then I will be set.
Oh yeah I forgot the pricing I was looking at is because I get a student discount :)


By natejohnstone on 4/6/2006 5:24:42 PM , Rating: 3
I'm not sure why so many Mac-geeks (not a dirogatory term, my good friend is a Sen. Eng. there) don't understand why people would want Windows. There are many reasons. For me personally, I NEED to run Windows because I have a number of Windows-only software programs, including work-related programs and intense games. But another reason is that even though I'm ready to switch to a Mac, my wife isn't--and this way we could both be happy.
I'm gonna wait for the jury to come in, but if the performance in dual-boot is what it could be, then I'll probably be getting a new powerMac instead of a high-end gaming rig this summer--or at least I hope the Macs come out by then!




zuh?
By Xenoterranos on 4/5/2006 10:09:42 AM , Rating: 2
Is Apple planning on becomeing the hip Dell? Or the classy Alienware? (We'll, they're the same now, arent they!)

This is probably a good thing for Apple. They get to sell you an overpriced machine with a very decent OS, and giv you the option of completely screwing it up. Hmmm, those guys at the genius bar are in for some tough times ahead!

Btw, I love that sideways duo-tone windows logo they got going there, it's almost mockingly better looking than the actuall windows logo :0




By UNCjigga on 4/5/2006 3:25:30 PM , Rating: 2
I wouldn't be surprised if the shipping version of Boot Camp + Leopard allows for concurrent user sessions of XP + OS X when paired with an Intel chip that has VT. There was talk that Apple was going to wait for Merom before launching Intel Macs...most likely they were waiting for this feature. Now I'm thinking Leopard will launch with the next-generation "PowerMac" desktop powered by Conroe or its VT-enabled successor.

I'm sure the shipping version (or updated BIOS) will solve the delete key issue.




Development Machine
By aliasfox on 4/6/2006 11:52:41 AM , Rating: 2
Wouldn't an Intel Mac now be the perfect web development machine? You have OSX, XP, and Linux all in one box - in the case of a MacBook Pro, a decently fast machine on both OSX and XP.

As for ctrl + alt + del, is there no way in Windows to remap one of the Apple keys (or any other) as a delete key? I'm pretty sure you can do that on the OSX side.




Mac OS in PC
By XPinMac on 4/8/2006 12:22:01 AM , Rating: 2
Ah...so will we even see a Mac OS running on a standard PC h/w ?




The Second Step on the Intel-brick road....
By JBird7986 on 4/5/06, Rating: -1
RE: The Second Step on the Intel-brick road....
By Phynaz on 4/5/2006 10:04:53 AM , Rating: 2
So you're saying because Apple computers didn't run Windows they weren't PCs?

I thought PC meant Personal Computer, not Personal Computer that runs Windows.


By Griswold on 4/5/2006 11:31:16 AM , Rating: 3
Apple people usually call their computers "mac" and refuse to be associated with "boring PCs".


By bohhad on 4/5/2006 4:09:46 PM , Rating: 2
no, it was apple that said that, not the author


By vsridhar420 on 4/5/2006 10:15:35 AM , Rating: 3
On the contarary, this move will let users to do a side by side comparision of the two operating systems and choose the best one. Over the years Mac OS has never lagged Windows in terms of quality. Now with near zero cost when bought with apple hardware, more people will look forward to using Mac OS than before since they can be 'backward compatible'. Windows is soon going to become a legacy OS which people will use when they have to run some of their old apps.

Apple also will definitely gain from this move.


RE: The Second Step on the Intel-brick road....
By mpeny on 4/5/2006 11:11:12 AM , Rating: 2
There is still a cost difference.


RE: The Second Step on the Intel-brick road....
By Bonrock on 4/5/2006 11:36:04 AM , Rating: 2
And it's quite a significant cost difference. Not only will you have to spend the extra money to buy a Mac, you'll also have to throw down the extra cash to buy your second OS (Windows). Well, assuming you have the integrity to do so.


RE: The Second Step on the Intel-brick road....
By jbs181818 on 4/5/2006 12:36:38 PM , Rating: 2
You can legally install Windows on line 3 of your own computers. So, if you already have windows, its free.


RE: The Second Step on the Intel-brick road....
By obeseotron on 4/5/2006 12:48:37 PM , Rating: 2
What are you talking about? A Windows license is good for one computer, legally.


RE: The Second Step on the Intel-brick road....
By SSNYT on 4/5/2006 1:14:29 PM , Rating: 2
2 if you have the OEM version. one static, one for mobile.


By ebakke on 4/5/2006 2:53:25 PM , Rating: 2
I could be wrong, but from my readings in the past you're referring to the Office EULA. Windows: 1 key, 1 machine.


By bob661 on 4/5/2006 2:55:09 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
2 if you have the OEM version. one static, one for mobile.
That's correct sir!


By Bonrock on 4/5/2006 1:45:19 PM , Rating: 3
You can legally install Windows on line 3 of your own computers. So, if you already have windows, its free.

It sounds like instead of reading the Windows license agreement, you just made up your own license agreement that suited your needs.


RE: The Second Step on the Intel-brick road....
By blwest on 4/5/2006 3:22:37 PM , Rating: 1
There is also a HUGE quality difference. I buy mac hardware because it's well engineered. It doesn't look like some huge laptop produced by dell. 1" is enough (that's what she said, not me, I swear) I hope dell quits producing near 2" thick notebooks and begins to produce an engineered prodcuct.


By h04x on 4/5/2006 4:28:40 PM , Rating: 4
Sigh, fanboiism at it's finest.


RE: The Second Step on the Intel-brick road....
By creathir on 4/6/2006 10:24:29 AM , Rating: 3
Well engineered??? It is the SAME stuff as what is inside the Windows PCs now...
SAME chipsets...
SAME CPU...
SAME graphics cards...
I guess their layout of their motherboards are supperior?
- Creathir


By wallijonn on 4/6/2006 12:37:20 PM , Rating: 2
[quote] It is the SAME stuff as what is inside the Windows PCs now...
SAME chipsets...
SAME CPU...
SAME graphics cards...
I guess their layout of their motherboards are supperior? [/quote]

That could very well be the case. Remember when a lot of motherboards had bad caps? ("Popcorning") Apples could use higher quality parts, have superior board layouts, etc. (Although I would think that it was the Intel engineers who crafted their new MacTel mobos. That alone may guarantee longer board life.) As far as the "same graphics cards" go, we may have to wait and see. I feel that the one thing that kept Macs from getting more marketshare was the fact that there were very few games for Macs (and Mac-ATI boards usually cost a premium over their PC brethern.) I'd like to know if the new Intel-Macs use the same power supplies as the PCs (just in case you need more juice for that new vid card.)


By vsridhar420 on 4/5/2006 10:19:13 AM , Rating: 3
Just to add to my previous comment, this is the most exciting this of the year. Groundbreaking to say the least.


By Ryan Norton on 4/5/2006 10:39:27 AM , Rating: 2
I'm trying this on my intel imac at work right now. So far have gotten through all the steps except actually starting the winxp install... suspect I have a very dirty disk the optical drive cant' read, though.


RE: The Second Step on the Intel-brick road....
By ketwyld on 4/5/2006 11:02:37 AM , Rating: 3
Apple Users, welcome to the BSoD (Blue Screen of Death).


RE: The Second Step on the Intel-brick road....
By mpeny on 4/5/2006 11:10:44 AM , Rating: 2
OR Windows users -

Welcome to the Beachball of Death
or Lollipop of Death



By Solema on 4/5/2006 3:17:08 PM , Rating: 2
Word! My wife gets more frustrated with her iBook and the beachball (or pinwheel as I call it) than she ever does at the PC I built her. Not one BSOD in three years.


By bob661 on 4/5/2006 12:02:21 PM , Rating: 1
I think this is fantastic! Best of both worlds!


"I modded down, down, down, and the flames went higher." -- Sven Olsen

Related Articles













botimage
Copyright 2014 DailyTech LLC. - RSS Feed | Advertise | About Us | Ethics | FAQ | Terms, Conditions & Privacy Information | Kristopher Kubicki