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New all aluminum iMac  (Source: Apple)

New aluminum Apple keyboard  (Source: Apple)

Apple aluminum wireless keyboard  (Source: Apple)
Everything is clad in aluminum when it comes to Apple's new iMac

Apple today announced a new line of iMacs that replaces the old line of plastic, all-in-one machines the company became famous for. The new line of iMacs bring along upgraded specifications as well as an all new design.

The new iMacs all ship with Intel Core 2 Duo processors running up to 2.8GHz. Improved graphics are also provided thanks to new ATI Radeon HD 2000 series GPUs. Memory capacities increase to a total of 4GB from the previous 2GB limit while users can configure systems with up to TB of storage space.

Apple will have two 20-inch models of the iMac and one high-end 24-inch. The entry-level 20-inch features a 2.0 GHz mobile Core 2 Duo processor, ATI Radeon HD 2400XT GPU and a 250GB SATA hard drive. Stepping up to the mid-range 20-inch model yields a 2.4 GHz mobile Core 2 Duo processor, ATI Radeon HD 2600 Pro GPU and a 320GB SATA hard drive.
 
The stock 24-inch model has similar specifications as the $1,499 20-inch model, except with a larger screen. However, Apple offers a custom order 2.8 GHz processor upgrade, exclusive to the 24-inch model. The 2.8 GHz processor is a mobile Core 2 Extreme X7900 processor.

All models have 802.11n wireless networking capability, 1GB of system memory and 8x SuperDrives. The processors employed in the new iMacs are Merom-based processors. Apple prices the new iMacs at $1,799 for the 24-inch flagship, $1,499 for a fully loaded 20-inch and $1,199 for an entry-level model.

In terms of design, all plastic surfaces have been replaced with a full aluminum outer shell. The display is also now glass instead of plastic. The new design follows the recent motifs of the MacBook Pro, Mac Pro and even the iPod Nano.

Accompanying the release of the new iMacs is a brand new wireless keyboard of the same design. The new keyboard uses Bluetooth for connectivity and is all aluminum -- except for the keys. Key structure is similar to that of the keyboard found on the MacBook, with the keys popping out slightly above the surface.



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Awesome looking stuff!
By Xerio on 8/7/2007 2:57:15 PM , Rating: 2
I am not a huge Apple fan, but they sure know how to produce beautiful products! That iMac looks awesome.




RE: Awesome looking stuff!
By JBird7986 on 8/7/2007 3:12:12 PM , Rating: 3
Agreed. It is definitely an aesthetically pleasing computer. However, this comes at a price...the lack of ability to upgrade.


RE: Awesome looking stuff!
By Xerio on 8/7/2007 3:18:26 PM , Rating: 5
I always thought they were priced at a premium as well, but not according to Jobs:

quote:
"Price our competitors' computers, and add in all the extras, we're competitive. We don't offer stripped down products. We compare favorably." From Engadget


I think Jobs has a strange grasp of reality...


RE: Awesome looking stuff!
By Phynaz on 8/7/2007 3:29:28 PM , Rating: 1
RE: Awesome looking stuff!
By darkpaw on 8/7/2007 3:35:58 PM , Rating: 3
That article was pretty skewed in the systems they chose to compare.

Then theres the option that Apple lacks all together, build it yourself. Any PC system over $500 can likely be built much cheaper then bought.


RE: Awesome looking stuff!
By Phynaz on 8/7/2007 3:51:27 PM , Rating: 3
Consumers don't build pc's, enthusiasts do.

Apple computers are targeted towards the enthusiast, they are targeted towards the everyday consumer.


RE: Awesome looking stuff!
By Phynaz on 8/7/2007 3:53:19 PM , Rating: 3
Umm..Make that NOT targeted towards the enthusiast.

Can we have an edit button yet?


RE: Awesome looking stuff!
By rcc on 8/7/2007 4:04:21 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
Can we have an edit button yet?


Nope, have you figured out why yet?

Because people play the game. Edit their post later on and claim not to have said something.

No edit, one of the prices we pay for the jackasses of the world.


RE: Awesome looking stuff!
By lennylim on 8/7/2007 4:26:38 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
Because people play the game. Edit their post later on and claim not to have said something.

An alternative is an edit option that expires 5 minutes after first submission.


RE: Awesome looking stuff!
By Brandon Hill (blog) on 8/7/2007 5:13:24 PM , Rating: 5
A lot can happen in five minutes. Do you guys just ignore the PREVIEW function?


RE: Awesome looking stuff!
By dajeepster on 8/7/2007 5:30:15 PM , Rating: 5
most of the time


RE: Awesome looking stuff!
By dajeepster on 8/7/2007 5:30:53 PM , Rating: 5
*edit*
ALL the time


RE: Awesome looking stuff!
By dajeepster on 8/7/2007 5:30:56 PM , Rating: 2
*edit*
ALL the time


RE: Awesome looking stuff!
By dude on 8/8/2007 11:36:53 PM , Rating: 2
Or an edit button until someone replies to your post?

Ok, how about this one: Edit button enters a new line of text after it automatically inserts:

Post edited by Xxx at X:xx time

There!


RE: Awesome looking stuff!
By Moishe on 8/7/2007 3:30:09 PM , Rating: 5
You've never heard of Jobs' reality distortion field?

Seriously, this is OK looking, but it's just not a look I am interested in. Frankly I like a PC for the utility and not the looks and I would rather pay less and have an ugly machine.

It's also expensive for what you're getting.


RE: Awesome looking stuff!
By FITCamaro on 8/7/2007 3:48:18 PM , Rating: 2
$1200 will build you one hell of a desktop machine. Even if you include the $250 price for a good 20" widescreen monitor, Windows, keyboard, and mouse. Figure after those 4 things you'll have $750 to build the PC. For that you can easily get a better system than this, stepping up the CPU, GPU, and definitely the RAM.

As others have said, it might look nice, but when it comes to hardware, its pretty lacking considering what you're paying. You don't have to get an ugly PC case either building it yourself. Cooler Master's Centurion 5 case looks great in my opinion, has excellent build quality, and is cheap.

And I'd always rather pay more and have the option to upgrade than pay less and not be able to. With media center systems and file servers becoming more common, you'd think Apple would release PCs to fit this market. Even with Apple TV, only their higher priced desktop form factor line has any room for additional hard drives, and that case only fit 2 drives the last time I saw one. I personally won't consider any case unless it fits at least 4 drives.


RE: Awesome looking stuff!
By Wightout on 8/7/2007 5:13:44 PM , Rating: 2
You seem to forget the software package that comes with it. Looking for all that software at comparable prices is not worth my time.

The simplicity of the machine is also very attractive.

=)


RE: Awesome looking stuff!
By DragonMaster0 on 8/7/2007 8:14:20 PM , Rating: 3
On Windows there is that thing called *good freewares* (the bad ones are stuffed with ads), which is something almost inexistant on MacOS X.

You want to open some hard-to-find compression formats? Buy the software for it.

You need a certain codec to read a video? Buy the software for it.


RE: Awesome looking stuff!
By kelmon on 8/8/2007 2:56:00 AM , Rating: 2
You what? Pardon my ignorance but would you care to back this statement up with examples? An awful lot of my Mac software is freeware and it works great. If you'd care to supply some examples of freeware that is lacking on the Mac then I can do some research for you since I don't recognise the problem that you seem to think exists. For example, with the exception of Protected Windows Media files (which Microsoft won't allow on the Mac) I haven't encountered a video codec problem since the release of Perian a good while ago. I certainly have never had to pay for a video codec.


RE: Awesome looking stuff!
By FITCamaro on 8/8/2007 12:14:02 PM , Rating: 1
You also assume you have to buy that. For someone who's never owned a PC, maybe. The rest of us already have software.


RE: Awesome looking stuff!
By MobileZone on 8/8/2007 2:47:30 AM , Rating: 2
True.

I'm not an apple fanboy, but I must admit that it looks gorgeous (even better than the previous version), but what avoids me from buying such machine is the lack of applications and the OS itself (I prefer Vista).

With Vista I have zillions of choices and hundreds of applications for everything i need (from Flash server to WAMP, 3D software, etc, etc).

When I used to be a mac user I remember how hard was to find one single good audio editor, besides some other annoying restrictions. Apple products are "sealed black boxes" and I'm the type of user who wants full control and customization of the machine/OS.


RE: Awesome looking stuff!
By Moishe on 8/8/2007 9:05:38 AM , Rating: 2
it does look nice... I'm just not one to pay extra for "nice".
Last machine I built cost less than this and has a lot more power. Mine is also not really that ugly.


RE: Awesome looking stuff!
By tim851 on 8/7/2007 3:39:33 PM , Rating: 3
The "competitors" for this iMac are not some cheap ass systems you buy at Walmart, but other High End eyecatchers like some of Sony's Vaio line. And if you compare the Mac to them, it's competitive.

I just configured a systen with similar specs myself online and ended up at about 1,500 $. That's including Windows Vista Home Premium, a nice silverstone tower and a quiet Seasonic PSU to be fair.

So I think this iMac is reasonably priced.


RE: Awesome looking stuff!
By Xerio on 8/7/2007 3:49:20 PM , Rating: 1
You are comparing Apple's prices to Sony's?!?! Of course they are similar! Have you forgotten that Sony has perfected over-priced and over-built. Sure, Apple and Sony's build quality and style may be better that Dell or even HP, but most people don't need the fluff.


RE: Awesome looking stuff!
By rbuszka on 8/7/2007 8:21:09 PM , Rating: 2
Over-built = High End. Apple isn't out to make money in the ultra-cheap-PC sector -- they're out for the high-end consumer market segment, where there's the most profit to be made. In some sense, "the price is the product" -- the high price adds exclusivity, making the product a symbol of status. How long has Steve Jobs been CEO of Apple? And it's really taken you this long to realize that this is Jobs' M.O.? (I mean, making profitable, high-end products.)


RE: Awesome looking stuff!
By Flunk on 8/7/2007 3:50:04 PM , Rating: 2
The Mac uses notebook components, which don't perform as well. You need to take that into account.


RE: Awesome looking stuff!
By rbuszka on 8/7/2007 8:24:44 PM , Rating: 2
This, gentlemen, is what's known as a "hasty" generalization. I'm going to have to ask you to justify your statement.

I know laptops typically aren't as thermally robust, so laptop components need to be designed for low power consumption or auto-throttling, but the Radeon HD2400 and HD2600 GPUs aren't 'laptop' components -- just desktop components with low enough power dissipation that they can be used in laptops or SFF PCs.


RE: Awesome looking stuff!
By DragonMaster0 on 8/7/2007 8:50:17 PM , Rating: 2
The CPU is a laptop one, and they cut on performance to make it heat less. For example, Merom runs at an 800MHz FSB while an equivalent Conroe has a 1066MHz FSB. You have less RAM bandwidth there. The Radeon HD series is particularly inefficient for it's performance IIRC. The iMac can use it since it's not battery powered.


RE: Awesome looking stuff!
By rbuszka on 8/8/2007 8:22:23 AM , Rating: 2
"heat less"? More like 'clue' less. Even though the FSB speed is lower, the clock speed of the CPU is still exactly the same as quoted. Even in situations where throttling is used to control heat production, the CPU throttles back when demand is low, and then ramps back up to its nominal clock speed when demand is high. And since the FSB speed is lower, the memory can run with optimal timings for lower latency, which ultimately makes a bigger difference in performance than memory bandwidth alone because high latency can cause actual memory bandwidth to be significantly less than the theoretical maximum permitted by the FSB speed. And anyone who would make the blanket statement that the entire Radeon HD series is inefficient clearly hasn't done their homework. The Radeon HD2900 (RV600 chipset) runs hot because it uses an 80nm process with lots of leakage, and it is indeed inefficient, but the 65nm-based Radeon HD2400 Pro, HD2400XT, HD2600 Pro, and HD2600XT are the most power-efficient DX10 GPUs on the desktop, with the HD2600 Pro dissipating only 45W of power. Mobility Radeon HD chips are available for even more power conservation in laptops, but the new iMacs do not use them.

Your initial allegations that the iMac has lower overall performance because of its use of laptop components is unsubstantiated, and the GPU isn't even a laptop component.


RE: Awesome looking stuff!
By DragonMaster0 on 8/8/2007 1:34:51 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Your initial allegations that the iMac has lower overall performance because of its use of laptop components is unsubstantiated,

That wasn't the same person though.

As far as I can recall C2D is more affected by memory speed than latency unlike K8 which performs better with lower latency.

But still, the price I calculated for an equivalent PC was about only $100 more. This time maybe the price isn't so bad tho, since every parts are current at the moment.

The problem is, Intel and AMD are releasing new CPUs in a few months. Seagate 7200.11 HDDs are almost there. AMD-ATI is going with better GPUs in a few months, etc. I know that the PC is always being upgraded, but the Mac doesn't upgrade that often and in a year it will still cost the same price and have the same parts. The iMac is about the same price on release, but as time advances, you get a much better PC for the price until the next generation Mac is there. PC enthusiasts upgrade their computers, which is pretty much impossible on the Mac apart from a few parts.

I forgot that the cards smaller than the 2900 are 65nm and heat less. They are perfectly suited for a small space, but are pretty slow performers when talking about 3D. If something doesn't work on Mac OS, yes, you can run Parallels or Boot Camp, but you have to buy them and a Windows license, which increases the price of the computer.

There's the 10.x to 10.y Mac OS X upgrades that increase the price of the computer as well if you want to keep the latest versions of most software out there. OS X becomes obsolete fast, a bit like the hardware. Mac OS X 10.3, that was coming on an iMac bought in the beginning of 2005 and upgraded with the latest updates doesn't run Adobe Reader 8.0, nor will it run Firefox 3. Take the 2001-old Windows XP, it still works with every new Windows software except DirectX 10-only games. To run the latest software on the 2005 iMac, the OS will have to be bought twice. To do the same thing with a 2001 PC, once. (And the person can reuse the license when the computer is upgraded)


RE: Awesome looking stuff!
By DragonMaster0 on 8/7/2007 4:37:58 PM , Rating: 2
iMac is priced like a desktop.

The equivalent to a desktop like the one you're building is a Mac Pro, which starts at $2000.

When you calculate the price of an *equivalent* PC (Parts that aren't necessarily able to overclock, a mATX mobo since all you can upgrade in an iMac is the RAM and HDD while voiding the warranty at the same time, PCIe 2400XT, better-than-standard LCD monitor, nice keyb & mouse, mATX aluminum SilverStone case, 802.11n, firewire 800, Vista Home Premium, etc.) you end up with a lower price than the Mac, even if about all you buy is retail, and you still have the option to change stuff in it rather than buy a completely new computer if it dies outside of the warranty or if some parts become obsolete.

Considering how many problems 1st gen iMac G5 and G4 laptops had, I wouldn't take a Mac without the extended warranty. The repair costs become unacceptable after that. Taking AppleCare means that the computer will cost a few hundreds more than an as-close-as-possible equivalent PC.


RE: Awesome looking stuff!
By Keeir on 8/7/2007 5:12:01 PM , Rating: 3
Okay, since the store is Up

a new 24-inch iMac with 3 year Warranty and 2 Gigs of Apple Ram is 2000-2100 dollars

configure a dell desktop (inspirion line) remembering to include adapters for bluetooth and wireless with a 3 year warranty is.... 2000-2100 dollars

Seems like the Mac is within spitting distance of the one of the cheapest pre-built companies out there.

As for

quote:
The equivalent to a desktop like the one you're building is a Mac Pro, which starts at $2000.


The Mac Pro is a workstation class machine. With Xeon processors and ECC ram in FB-Dimm slots. Of course that machine is not going to compare to a DIY machine


RE: Awesome looking stuff!
By Xerio on 8/7/2007 6:08:25 PM , Rating: 1
Seeing what I can get for $1200 (compared to the $1200 iMac) at Dell I found this:

Total Price $1214
Intel Core 2 Duo 2.2GHz - 200MHz faster than the Mac
20 inch LCD - Same
2GB RAM - Twice as much
500GB HDD - Twice as much
16x DVD+/-RW Drive - Twice as fast
256 MB nVidia GeForce 8600GT - Mac has 128MB Radeon
802.11g - Same
No BlueTooth - Mac has BlueTooth
Firewire - Same

I don't know about the high-end, but on the low-end, Dell kicks Apple's butt in the price department, and it is easily upgradable. And if I want a larger monitor in the future, I don't have to go buy a whole new computer.


RE: Awesome looking stuff!
By blueflash2o on 8/7/2007 6:23:51 PM , Rating: 3
Does that 16x DVD+/-RW Drive do dual layer dvds? The iMac's super drive does.
The iMac also has 802.11n not g


RE: Awesome looking stuff!
By stevenplatt on 8/7/2007 7:03:33 PM , Rating: 2
Apple needs to consider HD DVD or BluRay options. I was waiting for an update but will once again buy another Windows machine because Apple's computers lack any extensive configuration options. I am not happy with their current options. If they are set on fixed configurations they need to make them more configurable when ordered. I want HD movie playback options and Apple will not get my dollars for not including it.


RE: Awesome looking stuff!
By Wightout on 8/7/2007 7:21:58 PM , Rating: 2
From what I understand Apple has chosen BluRay, if anything it would only make sense due to Disney's choosing of BluRay. However due to the fact that the there aren't any cheep Players at this time I wouldn't anticipate seeing one in a machine until they hit something like $300ish.


RE: Awesome looking stuff!
By DragonMaster0 on 8/7/2007 8:38:25 PM , Rating: 1
Is there even a single drive that doesn't burn DL made since 2005?

Yep, the Mac has draft-n.

I calculated the cost of parts at NewEgg for an equivalent PC including Vista Home Premium, draft-n, Firewire 800, a 2400XT video card, an aluminum case, keyb, mouse, etc.

All I forgot is the DVD burner, but the total was at least $100 under the iMac 20-inch price. Add $30 for the burner.

The good thing with the PC is that you spend much less to have faster components on the initial buy, and you CAN upgrade later. You want a 600MHz faster CPU? Shell out $60, not $100+. You want 2GB of RAM instead of one? Pay $35 more, not almost the price of a 2x1GB set.

Apple knows how to charge for the additional features. You can't get a machine without RAM, but 1GB is kind of low for OS X or Vista. The second GB is pretty expensive, but just a little less than a set of two 1GB RAM sticks, so, you will choose the cheaper option. The thing is, there are only two RAM slots in that computer, so you can't just fit in a second gig of RAM to save money.

Want a better GPU? On the PC you can buy a card, on the iMac you need to wait for the next generation. The 2400XT is a sub-standard card since the beginning. You can already buy it for about $70.


RE: Awesome looking stuff!
By Phynaz on 8/7/2007 9:54:58 PM , Rating: 3
It's easy to look at individual parts, add up the prices and think you have a Mac. But you don't.

Now add in the build, how many hours?
Add in the all-in-one, aluminum and glass case -- if you can find one. How about a two inch thick power supply, seen one of those lately?
Add in the miniscule footprint.
Add in service and support.

What do you end up with? A pretty good price on a machine.


RE: Awesome looking stuff!
By DragonMaster0 on 8/7/2007 10:41:46 PM , Rating: 2
Or a battery-free heavy laptop.


RE: Awesome looking stuff!
By Phynaz on 8/7/2007 11:08:45 PM , Rating: 2
ummmm...Yeah..Okay.


RE: Awesome looking stuff!
By Wightout on 8/7/2007 6:24:10 PM , Rating: 3
And you get all that crapware =D

If I am not mistaken your Wireless for the Mac you get 802.11n not 802.11g. Though I could be mistaken.

You also have to take into account the Software you get from the mac, and the lack of need for any virus protection for now.


RE: Awesome looking stuff!
By Keeir on 8/7/2007 7:33:58 PM , Rating: 2
Why don't we actually configure options a User would include? (Buying either a Dell or Apple without a 3-year care plan is crazy)

For example, the cheapest product in a Mac line is ALWAYS the worst value due the inflexible costs of contrustion, shipping, design, and software.

I will choose the 20-inch, 2.4GHz Imac with 2 Gigs of Ram, Iwork '08 and Apple Care (3 Year). Total price before tax and shipping is 1,897.00

At Dell XPS 410 (obviously Mac's "compeditior") starting with the basic 999.00 model as my configuration.

Intagibles
OS 10.4>Windows Vista Home Premium
8x SuperDrive=16x Combo Burner (Due to Slot Loading, and that many types of media probably won't actually burn at 16x if the burner is a Lite-on or similar)
Imac Screen<20 inch Ultra Sharp (ability to connect multiple sources)

Total price for the Dell, 1,976

Its pretty much a wash in terms of price for the actual user.


RE: Awesome looking stuff!
By kelmon on 8/8/2007 3:54:18 AM , Rating: 2
Dear God, no. Stop comparing Apple's prices to Dell. Dell's are awful machines that should never see the light of someone's home. I use them at work and at people's homes and they are all truly terrible computers that feel cheap and nasty.

If we are going to compare computers and prices, please choose manufacturers that make computers that you'd willing use. My experience in this area is limited but what I do know is that Dell's are terrible.


RE: Awesome looking stuff!
By Keeir on 8/7/2007 5:12:07 PM , Rating: 2
Okay, since the store is Up

a new 24-inch iMac with 3 year Warranty and 2 Gigs of Apple Ram is 2000-2100 dollars

configure a dell desktop (inspirion line) remembering to include adapters for bluetooth and wireless with a 3 year warranty is.... 2000-2100 dollars

Seems like the Mac is within spitting distance of the one of the cheapest pre-built companies out there.

As for

quote:
The equivalent to a desktop like the one you're building is a Mac Pro, which starts at $2000.


The Mac Pro is a workstation class machine. With Xeon processors and ECC ram in FB-Dimm slots. Of course that machine is not going to compare to a DIY machine


RE: Awesome looking stuff!
By GoodBytes on 8/7/2007 3:24:35 PM , Rating: 2
Wow.... I really hate it. If they removed the black part, it would be awesome. On my taste the back just ruin the design. OR make everything 100% black aluminum, no plastic on the case design.

And if it some plastic reflective thing, that would be truly annoying, as it will reflect light. You will need to position your mac away from light source and windows.
Hmmm... iHouse? (just kidding)


RE: Awesome looking stuff!
By GoodBytes on 8/7/2007 3:27:01 PM , Rating: 2
To add,
I find the keyboard interesting... as It really doesn't look comfortable as the keys are way to big. I guess I have to it in reality to actually see the key size.


RE: Awesome looking stuff!
By klingon on 8/7/2007 3:30:22 PM , Rating: 2
Seriously man....good ergonomics and design


RE: Awesome looking stuff!
By v1001 on 8/9/2007 11:43:52 PM , Rating: 2
I was always a fan of the simple sleek look.


"wireless" keyboard...
By mjcutri on 8/7/2007 3:32:39 PM , Rating: 2
strange, but i swear that I see a wire coming out of the top of that "wireless" keyboard




RE: "wireless" keyboard...
By lufoxe on 8/7/2007 3:35:11 PM , Rating: 2
that's the wired keyboard, the wireless is actually the size of a laptop keyboard. much smaller


RE: "wireless" keyboard...
By mjcutri on 8/7/2007 3:48:01 PM , Rating: 2
I know, but DT made no mention of the wired version in the article, they only mention the wireless keyboard, yet they posted a picture of the wired one. You have to go to the apple site to see the wireless keyboard. I just thought it weird that they mentioned one keyboard in the article and posted a picture of a different one.


RE: "wireless" keyboard...
By Anh Huynh on 8/7/2007 6:02:35 PM , Rating: 2
Added the image of the wireless keyboard.

It's nice looking, but I still think the Logitech DiNuvo Edge is the epitome of sex, in keyboard form.


RE: "wireless" keyboard...
By kelmon on 8/8/2007 3:08:03 AM , Rating: 2
I am majorly pissed about the Bluetooth keyboard design. I know a lot of people didn't like the leaked design of the new keyboard when it was first posted on the Web but I was really looking forward to it, should it turn out to be genuine. For years I've preferred laptop keyboards to "standard" keyboards for the short travel of the keys and overall feel (the sound's nice too) but don't tend to use one for various reasons. Unfortunately, one of the main reasons why I don't use a laptop keyboard for work is that I typically need a numeric keypad and the muppets have decided to remove it from the Bluetooth version. Why? They didn't remove it from the Bluetooth version of the Pro keyboard so why do this now?

I'll end up with the wired version but I REALLY wanted a Bluetooth version of a full keyboard.


Incremental update
By hinchesk on 8/7/2007 3:33:42 PM , Rating: 2
Nice update to the previous iMac but hardly revolutionary. They covered it in aluminum and made it thinner... not exactly new design concepts. No ground broken with this release.

It would've be much more interesting if they'd released a desktop with expansion capabilities, i.e. Mac Pro without the server class board/cpu/mem. It seems they're not interested in that market though... not their style... bummer.




RE: Incremental update
By Daven on 8/7/2007 3:43:44 PM , Rating: 2
I agree with you completely. I wish they would release something called "Mac" which is just a single socket desktop class motherboard in the same enclosure as the Mac Pro but much much smaller. That would be cool. They could take out one of the optical drives and two of the harddrive slots to make it smaller. Since its in a desktop tower enclosure, you could upgrade the harddrives, memory, video card, maybe CPU, and add other PCIe cards.

Complete desktop line up would be (with suggested prices)
Mac Mini $399 and up (budget pc for offices and old people)
Mac $699 and up (upgradeable pc for gamers and DIYers)
iMac $1199 and up (all-in-one, brand name important here)
Mac Pro $1999 and up (workstation/server)

At least that's what I would do if I ran Apple. :)


RE: Incremental update
By rbuszka on 8/7/2007 8:31:42 PM , Rating: 2
This is why you don't run Apple. The price brackets you're trying to fit each machine into would ruin your profit margins, and you'd have a tough time competing in the blood-letting cheap PC market with the disadvantage of shipping your machines with an OS that isn't the industry standard. Apple positions their machines in the most profitable segment of their respective markets. I think I'd stick with Steve Jobs for CEO, since he obviously knows what he's doing. Back in the Gil Amelio days, you were lucky if the company's stock hit $30. And look where it is now -- the proof, as they say, is in the pudding.


RE: Incremental update
By Daven on 8/8/2007 11:43:50 AM , Rating: 2
Nice response. However the only thing I changed with my price list is the added "Mac" computer. If you will take the time train with me back to the launch of the first Mac mini, the price was $499 not far from my suggested $399. If it will make you happier, I will raise my hypothetical Mac mini price to $499. All the other prices are exactly as they are for the iMac and Mac Pro. Also, the suggested "Mac" price of $699 is a starting price. It will go up with added options. But if it makes you feel any better, I can raise that to $799 which was the starting price of the eMac.

What exactly am I suggesting that is so radically different than Steve Jobs pricing?


I'm disgusted...
By daftrok on 8/7/2007 7:37:48 PM , Rating: 2
Not by the design, but by the specs. Once again they're doing multiple choices for only two distinct products. What does that mean to you? There are two 20-inch models available with a 300 price range difference. Suppose you want to put more than 500 GB of memory into the lower end model. You can't. Why? Because for some odd reason, you can only go up to 500 and can't go any further without dishing out 300 more dollars to get the higher end model which allows you to go up to 750 GB. I'm sick and tired of Apple doing this. JUST HAVE ONE MODEL AND LET THE CONSUMER CHOOSE WHAT SPECS THEY WANT. They do this with every single computer they have less the Mac Pro. And on top of that, they chose horrible lamentable video cards for this model. The video cards on their NOTEBOOKS outperform the video card on their iMac. Its a wonderful design, but these multiple choices for same model crap has me disgusted.




RE: I'm disgusted...
By Wightout on 8/7/2007 7:52:35 PM , Rating: 2
I may be wrong, but being that the space is limited inside the machine. The model with the larger monitor also has additional space, thus something like hard drives can be larger. I don't know how much space is really back there, but I doubt they have much to work with.

Seeing other Apple products insides being as pact as they are, I very much doubt Apple didn't try to use the space available to its fullest.

Though I could be wrong...

get an external HD. Its cheaper Gigs/$wise. if you don't like the idea of having something ugly in your space, or don't want extra wires, attach it to your network and connect via wifi...


RE: I'm disgusted...
By daftrok on 8/7/2007 9:56:11 PM , Rating: 2
Go to the Apple Store site and look at the lower end 20 inch model and the higher end 20 inch model specs. For some reason, you can add up to 500 GB to the lower end model and 750 GB to the higher end model. Why? They want the moneys. They're all 3.5" HDD. You can fit a 1 TB HDD in all models because 1 3.5" TB HDD is the same size as a 3.5" 250 GB HDD.


Compare to Dell XPS M2010...
By aliasfox on 8/8/2007 12:03:23 AM , Rating: 2
And the 20" iMac looks like a freakin' bargain. Both are one piece units, though the Dell is technically a laptop - a 20 lbs monstrosity of a laptop.

To all those saying "I can build one for cheaper" or "where's the expandability?" - That's not Apple's market. Apple doesn't build a machine that competes with Inspiron Desktops (is that really what they're called now?) or Emachines towers in Best Buy. It builds iMacs for its $1000 to $2000 systems.

The rest of the market thinks that the average consumer wants a tower. Apple disagrees. And it has a point - how many average consumers ever open up their machine? Or do they pass it on to their kids/sell it after 3-4 years and buy a new one?

Some people are arguing "but I want to keep my monitor for my next computer!" Again, does the average consumer really do that? Four years ago, most people got 15" or 17" LCDs with their computers. Four years before that, 17" or 19" CRTs. Most of us wouldn't consider using a 15" or 17" LCD as a primary desktop display, much less an old CRT. A 20" LCD may be beautiful and cutting edge now, but 4 years from now there will probably be something else that the average consumer will be lusting after - SEDs, holographics, whatever.

So if the average consumer thinks about it, they really don't treat their computer system much differently than they treat their cell phones. Apple realizes this, and builds computers to satisfy that need - something stylish, relatively painless to set up and use, and when the time comes, get rid of it and buy a new one. We don't think like that, but most consumers do.

That said, and as a Mac user, I'm disappointed. A 2600 Pro as the highest end option on a nearly $2k computer? Correct me if I'm wrong, but that generally is no faster than the GeForce 7600 GT that the old 24" had as an option, and that's been out for nearly a year already. And the 2400XT is comparable to an x1600 pro, which is in the ballpark of my old Radeon 9700 Pro? Not exactly stellar graphics performance they're putting into these machines.




By maxplanck on 8/8/2007 2:43:48 AM , Rating: 2
Of my six or seven PC-owning friends (most people I know have Macs, yes), almost all of them have Dells. They range in usertype from total computer idiot, through sometime-gamer, to accountant and finally hardcore engineer/CAD designer with the big blue XPS thingy. Not ONE of them has ever opened or expanded their machine, apart from the engineer, who replaced the drive with a bigger one. Ooo. And yet they all put up with these pointlessly over-large boxen in their living rooms or bedrooms, whooshing away like a passing Cessna, wires sprouting out of them like hairs from your Grandad's nose, empty slots and gaping spaces awaiting drives and cards that will never be installed.

Seems completely crazy to me, and increasingly to them. In the meantime, I simply don't want to endlessly upgrade an old computer architecture (and maintain all those damn drivers and firmware), and instead buy a new Mac every three or four years. Because they hold their value so well, I was able to sell my Dual 800 G4 for $900 last year, meaning it cost me $500/yr over the four years I owned it and I rocked a couple hundred thousands of dollars work out of it into the bargain. Seems reasonable to me.


By crystal clear on 8/8/2007 3:11:52 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
So if the average consumer thinks about it, they really don't treat their computer system much differently than they treat their cell phones. Apple realizes this, and builds computers to satisfy that need - something stylish, relatively painless to set up and use, and when the time comes, get rid of it and buy a new one. We don't think like that, but most consumers do.


You are right on this-Apple sent its peoples out into the market to find out what the average consumer wants.

They give them just want they want,& it will sell.

Majority of the guys on Dailytech have no idea what goes on in the market.
They think they know it all-when in fact they KNOW NOTHING about what goes on in the market-for that you got be in the business of selling.

Outside their server rooms/office they are like some lost satelite in space.


I may be the only one
By lufoxe on 8/7/2007 3:39:21 PM , Rating: 2
*prepares for down rating* but it looks like a car "remodel" they just changed the material on the it, upgraded the innards. and called it a day. I personally was expecting something revolutionary, like the previous changes with the imacs crt to LCD (ping pong looking one), Ping pong imac to the all in one. While for some it may be the best thing since sliced bread (those in the church of jobs), I honestly expected more out of apples design team. Yay for improvements, boo for lack of creativity




RE: I may be the only one
By tim851 on 8/7/2007 3:47:26 PM , Rating: 2
You just don't get the iMac ;)

Ever since the 1st one the philosophy has been to try to "hide" the computer in the display. First, they had it in the case of a CRT. Then in the base of an LCD. The last one already had it in the case of an LCD and this one too, it's just thinner, so the goal of "removing the tower" is almost accomplished.

So there was never anything revolutionary about the iMac generations. And with the currend model, Apple has gotten really close. Even at the 2nd and 3rd look, you could just take it for a display.


Its the keyboard
By Griswold on 8/7/2007 3:40:13 PM , Rating: 2
Gimme the keyboard, keep the rest!

I always thought of their keyboards as the most appealing pieces of hardware. :)




RE: Its the keyboard
By Flunk on 8/7/2007 3:48:19 PM , Rating: 2
Go for it, Apple will sell you a keyboard by itself. Markup is a bit high but if you really want it you'll pay.


WHAT!!!!
By firebush on 8/7/2007 4:30:46 PM , Rating: 2
Neither keyboard is lit! No thanks apple. Why cant I get a decent wireless keyboard that has lit keys? Why? Tell me, anyone. It doesn't take a huge amount of power to light a keyboard, and even though the battery drain is bigger, just replace the batteries every so often. Why hasn't this been done? WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY!?!?!?!

Oh, Apple. You could have made me a believer. Now I must go drink my sorrows away.




RE: WHAT!!!!
By rbuszka on 8/7/2007 8:34:55 PM , Rating: 2
I think somebody sells a keyboard light, which is just a little USB thing with a flexible gooseneck and white LED. I've seen it before, I just can't remember where. But, why are you keeping your room so dark that you can't see your keyboard in the first place?


Yays
By Aprime on 8/7/2007 6:30:08 PM , Rating: 2
Ordered mine, Default 2.8GHz 24".

Should be getting it before the end of the month.

It's great value for students, really (free printer, free iPod, rebate).




RE: Yays
By Visual on 8/8/2007 6:11:23 AM , Rating: 2
good joke, really. well done.


You guys are forgetting something
By Dug on 8/7/2007 10:23:42 PM , Rating: 2
All of you that are trying so hard to configure a pc that matches the iMac aren't even close. You are forgetting Bluetooth, Firewire 800, wireless n, built in speakers, built in camera, microphone. And not having wires hanging all over the place. Yes, you can upgrade the iMac. People have been upgrading processors, memory, hard drives forever. Video cards you can't, but the way things go on the PC side, you are upgrading mb, ram, cpu, video card anyway.

The biggest reason though, is the software. It's obvious to read someone's post that hasn't used a Mac for any length of time. Everything works on a Mac You don't have to worry about most of the things you need to on a pc.
You should watch some videos on making a video on a Mac, or using iChat. Try finding a program that can even come close to Quicksilver. Have you ever seen someone try to set up video conferencing on a PC, its a joke. Takes a few minutes on a Mac. iLife and iWork are hands down the best productivity software out there. The Mac saves so much time and effort compared to the PC. The list goes on and on.

No the Mac is not for everyone, but if you want to get something done right away without thinking about it, a PC can't compare.




By kelmon on 8/8/2007 4:29:09 AM , Rating: 2
Er...

Look, I'm a Mac user and have been for a few years now. I'll stand up and refute a lot of the stupid comments that people make about Macs based on bugger-all experience or what they read somewhere. However, I can't agree with everything that you are saying. I do agree that upgradability isn't much of an issue since when I ended up upgrading my old PCs I did typically end up replacing most of the internal components in order to remove bottlenecks that would prevent me from getting the maximum from the other parts bought. I don't agree, however, that iWork is the "hands down the best productivity software out there". If you need basic functionality then it's fine but Office 2007 does wipe the floor with it. I'm going to buy iWork '08 for home use but will continue to use Office 2007 at work since it simply provides the features that I need, not to mention the software (the Mac still lacks a version of Access unless you're prepared to pay for FileMaker). To suggest that iWork is better than Office 2007 is, frankly, bonkers. They aren't, however, expected to compete much so I don't see it as a problem, particularly given the price differential as iWork, frankly, costs peanuts.


Carmack has his work cut out for him...
By ghostbuster on 8/7/2007 10:40:04 PM , Rating: 2
... to get tech5 to run on this h/w. I mean the Doom 3 based Prey which has been out for a year barely breaks 30fps on the $1799 flagship's Radeon HD 2600Pro at 1280x1024 with no AA/AF.

The fact that they use mobile CPU/chipset with slower FSB doesn't help either, plus to add insult to injury the standard configuration comes with 1x1GB DDR2-667 SO-DIMM so the memory runs in single-channel mode and they charge $150 for the 2nd stick. As a comparison, Crucial sells 1x1GB DDR2-667 SO-DIMM sticks for $50 and 2x1GB kits for $100.

But hey, Apple targets customers who are not really interested in the technical aspects of what they're paying for.

P.S. Sorry to break it to you, but if you throw $2,300 into an iMac then your iPod is not "free".




By maxplanck on 8/8/2007 2:45:58 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Apple targets customers who are not really interested in the technical aspects of what they're paying for


Ujm. No. You don't have the slightest clue what you're talking about. You probably imagine picking your nose is a good way of making a living.


the new iMac keyboards
By vailr on 8/7/2007 4:20:15 PM , Rating: 2
Where's the mouse
By Snuffalufagus on 8/7/2007 4:32:45 PM , Rating: 2
Do we get a nice aluminum mouse with it too? Or worse yet, a wireless aluminum mighty mouse?




By Sazar on 8/7/2007 4:49:54 PM , Rating: 2
That would be totally cool :)

An iMac with a see-through window. Or, provide purchasers with a dremel to cut it out ourselves ;)

Seriously though, the keyboard looks crap, not very ergonomic and if it's like the notebooks, the tactile feel is very numb. Plus, it looks the same as before, except with more metal.

What gives? How is this a NEW product instead of a simple REFRESH?




ATI graphics
By Wily on 8/7/2007 10:45:28 PM , Rating: 2
If "ATI Radeon HD 2000 series" graphics are an improvement, that is sad.

I guess sadder still is whatever came with the previous model.




awww what!
By otispunkmeyer on 8/8/2007 8:30:25 AM , Rating: 2
i waited for these to arrive because im going to get the wireless mouse n keybaord and now that it has, i wished i hadnt waited.

the wireless keyboard doesnt have the keypad + other extra buttons, the very buttons i am missing on my SR MBP's keyboard! guess i will just have to get the wired one. will cost less anyway.




Did you notice ?
By crystal clear on 8/8/2007 2:49:51 PM , Rating: 2
Did you notice that-

The cost of the 24-inch iMac has been dropped by $200, and Apple has eliminated the 17-inch iMac computer.




LOL look at the RAM prices!
By DragonMaster0 on 8/8/2007 10:11:14 PM , Rating: 2
http://www.fudzilla.com/index.php?option=com_conte...

They charge $850 more to switch from 1GB to 4GB!

BTW, the system uses SODIMM RAM this time.




"We shipped it on Saturday. Then on Sunday, we rested." -- Steve Jobs on the iPad launch

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