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Apple refreshes its iPhone family, iOS 7 coming September 18

It's that time of year again when consumers go crazy for new iPhones and analysts and tech pundits bicker over whether the newest release is "innovative enough” in the face of strengthened competition.
As has been the case in previous years, much of today's announcement has already been leaked. Over the past few months, we've seen images of both the new iPhone 5S and the iPhone 5C. And in June, we got our first glimpse of the operating system that the new hardware will power: iOS 7. IOS 7 marks the first drastic departure from the original “iPhone Operating System” software that we saw with the introduction of the original iPhone way back in 2007, and it will available to the public on September 18.
Today, all the pieces are coming together and we can finally see Apple’s new iPhones in the flesh. The first new model is the iPhone 5C, which is a polycarbonate-bodied smartphone available in green, white, blue, pink, and yellow (now the rainbow of colors in the iOS 7 UI make sense). According to Jony Ive, the "iPhone 5C is beautifully, unapologetically plastic."

iPhone 5C
The colorful plastic backing is a one-piece design that wraps all the way around the device and up to the glass touchscreen. It also has a reinforced steel frame to give a further feeling of solidity. When it comes to hardware, this is basically last year's iPhone 5, which means an A6 processor, 4” Retina display, and an 8MP rear-facing camera. However, it does add support for 100Mbps LTE.

Apple's "Soft-feel silicon rubber" case for the iPhone 5C will cost $39
The iPhone 5C will be priced at $99 for the 16GB model and $199 for the 32GB model -- both of course with new, two-year contracts.
But the star of the show, of course, is the new iPhone 5S. While not nearly as colorful as its cheaper iPhone 5C sibling, the iPhone 5S will be available in Silver, Gold, and Space Grey. The phone features a new A7 processor, which is the first 64-bit chip used in a smartphone. The new chip has 2 general purpose registers, 2 coating point registers, and over a billion transistors (102mm2 die size). It also supports OpenGL ES 3.0. Naturally, iOS 7 was rebuilt to support the 64-bit architecture of the A7.

iPhone 5S
Apple's native Apps have been recompiled for 64-bit operation and developers can start producing their own 64-bit apps with XCode. When all is said and done, the iPhone 5S will be twice as fast in CPU operations and twice as fast in GPU operations compared to the outgoing iPhone 5.
To be used in conjunction with the A7 is the new M7 motion coprocessor. It provides accelerometer, gyroscope, and compass functionality and works in conjunction with the new CoreMotion API to open up enable the next generation of health and fitness apps.
When it comes to battery life, Apple promises  10 hours of LTE browsing or 10 hours of 3G talk. Standby time is listed at 250 hours.

The camera is a new unit with a five-element lens and F2.2 aperture. It also has a 15 percent larger active sensor. It also has a new dual-LED flash system which promises to produce better skin tones. Other features include automatic image stabilization, 10 FPS burst mode, and a 120 FPS slow motion feature (720p at 120 FPS). 

The iPhone 5S gets its own $39 case as well

Perhaps the biggest new feature of the iPhone 5S, however, is the new "Touch ID" fingerprint sensor. The sensor is 170 microns thin and has a 550ppi resolution to read sub-epidermal skin layers. The sensor of course is integrated into the smartphone's Home button. Unlocking your phone is now as simple as touching your finger to the home button (multiple fingerprints are supported). Your fingerprint can also be used to verify your identity to purchase apps instead of entering your password.

Thankfully, the fingerprint data is only store on the device, and is never uploaded to Apple's servers (it won't even be backed up to iCloud).

The iPhone 5S will be available in 16GB 32GB, and 64GB versions for $199, $299, and $399 respectively with a new, two-year contract. Pre-orders for the iPhone 5C will open up on September 12 with the official launch taking place on September 20.

For anyone that cares, the iPhone 4S is still sticking around in 8GB guise for free on contract. The iPhone 5 is D - E - A - D.

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By Gio6518 on 9/10/2013 2:10:39 PM , Rating: 1
Can't wait to see how the iDiot douchebag followers try to spin this... After they have been constantly talking crap about Samsung having budget phones.... Well at least they're doing what Apple does best copy everyone in everything and singing songs of praise...

RE: Spin
By troysavary on 9/10/13, Rating: -1
RE: Spin
By invidious on 9/10/2013 2:35:34 PM , Rating: 3
You must have a different definition for impressive. The last impressive thing the iPhone got was the retina display, and that was the iPhone 4. I dont see anything innovative about this minor IOS redesign, looks like the same old crap with different styling. Which is basically all Apple has done with the iPhone in the past 3 years, incrimental hardware upgrades and stylization tweaks. Waiting for Apple to release a competative phone that pushes ANY boundries is growing tiresome.

RE: Spin
By troysavary on 9/10/13, Rating: -1
RE: Spin
By SpartanJet on 9/10/2013 3:04:51 PM , Rating: 4
Please, enlighten us on the benefits of 64bit on a phone with tiny (fart) apps and very little memory to address. One day it will be a benefit, but that day is long off especially with a functionally retarded OS like iOS.

RE: Spin
By Dug on 9/10/13, Rating: 0
RE: Spin
By SpartanJet on 9/10/2013 3:27:15 PM , Rating: 5
Thats simple, there is no need for a 64 bit OS yet especialy on a faux OS like iOS with such limited memory. Do some research and find out what the benefits of a 64 bit OS are and then get post back. I'm not doing your interwebs homework for you.

RE: Spin
By Dug on 9/10/13, Rating: 0
RE: Spin
By nikon133 on 9/10/2013 5:16:46 PM , Rating: 2
Apple is promising 2x performance gain, much as I can see. I believe they were achieving (approximately) same performance gain from generation to generation without moving to 64-bit.

Maybe they could not squeeze more out of 32-bit tech (while staying in acceptable heat and power consumption margins)?

Also remains to be seen how is this going to work on apps side. Will there be 32 and 64-bit versions of apps, will one app carry both codes, or will developers simply keep releasing 32-bit versions for a while, until there is enough 5s in the wild? Is there going to be any performance penalty for running 32-bit (presumably in some sort of emulation layer), or compatibility issues?

Considering all that, I'm not too convinced that 64-bit will bring much/any advantage for 5s users, but it could be foundation for future iOS shift to 64-bit.

RE: Spin
By Dug on 9/10/13, Rating: -1
RE: Spin
By a5cent on 9/11/2013 9:19:08 AM , Rating: 3
Fact is, until we have measurements comparing the 64bit version to the 32bit version of the same app, none of us have any idea what the benefits are, if any. I am a software engineer, and while I understand your points, I would be surprised if the benefits were anywhere close to being as relevant as you expect them to be. Primarily because you're ignoring the fact that moving to 64bits also brings with it a host of drawbacks, which could easily cancel out many if not all of the potential performance gains, particularly on a low-power ARM CPU with modest amounts of cache and a frugal pre-fetcher.

Furthermore, you're assuming architectural changes that have no direct relationship to making the jump to 64bits. Just because the AMD64 architecture doubled the number of registers over its 32bit predecessor, doesn't mean the 64bit A7 must do the same. It isn't even guaranteed that all registers will be doubled in width. I would consider that likely, but there is no guarantee.

Finally, your assertion that 64bit integer ops are faster on a 64bit CPU is true, but completely irrelevant if the apps we run don't provide that kind of workload. From everything I've seen so far, almost all such workloads are executed on the GPU, not the CPU, and that isn't going to change, making this argument all but irrelevant to consumers.

In summary, your insistence that moving to a 64bit architecture will result in noticeable benefits is premature. Until we have actual measurements proving otherwise, the stance that it will make little difference is the more reasonable position to take, simply because it is far more likely.

If I had to guess, I would say this change is made primarily in the interest of tablets, and the iPhone is just being kept compatible. In a sense, I suspect the iPhone is just along for the ride, but Apple could never admit that.

RE: Spin
By othercents on 9/11/2013 9:28:58 AM , Rating: 2
Absolutely true, and even if 64bit works as intended you now have a split in the applications where all older versions of iPhones and iPads prior to the 5S would be worthless since they couldn't run the 64bit applications. Apple just sunset their whole line of phones and tablets by moving to 64bit.

RE: Spin
By a5cent on 9/11/2013 10:37:03 AM , Rating: 2
I don't think Apple sunset their whole line, mainly because I don't expect to see many 64bit apps. Most developers will release just a 32bit version and be done with it. It will be a few years before 64bit apps become the norm. Longer if the benefits are as few and far between as most here suspect.

RE: Spin
By asgallant on 9/11/2013 12:21:44 PM , Rating: 2
Yeah, just look at how long it has taken the PC space to move to 64-bit applications being the norm. 64-bit x86 CPU's have been around for somewhere around 9-10 years now, and the last 32-bit only x86 CPU was sold how long ago? And still 32-bit applications are the norm. Unless ARM and the smartphone vendors can make a convincing case to developers that 64-bit is worth coding for even when not necessary, developers will continue on in 32-bit unless there is a tangible benefit to the application for moving to 64-bit.

RE: Spin
By a5cent on 9/11/2013 1:23:19 PM , Rating: 2
Ok, I just saw some specifics on the A7 SoC and for the CPU, they do claim to have doubled the number of general purpose and floating point registers. This has little to do with the transition to a 64bit architecture however. They could have done the same at 32bits.

RE: Spin
By Monkey's Uncle on 9/11/2013 8:52:44 PM , Rating: 3
Fact is, until we have measurements comparing the 64bit version to the 32bit version of the same app, none of us have any idea what the benefits are, if any. I am a software engineer, and while I understand your points, I would be surprised if the benefits were anywhere close to being as relevant as you expect them to be. Primarily because you're ignoring the fact that moving to 64bits also brings with it a host of drawbacks, which could easily cancel out many if not all of the potential performance gains, particularly on a low-power ARM CPU with modest amounts of cache and a frugal pre-fetcher...

Very true a5cent.

I too am a (very) senior software developer. There are a lot of variables when comparing 32 and 64 bit code (same arguments applied to 32 vs 16 vs ab it code as well). Just because a CPU/System has a 64-bit architecture does not mean it will be more efficient or faster than a 32-bit CPU/System. The number of bits does not change clock speed. The number of bits does itself affect pipeline handling, branch prediction and look-ahead.

Worse, consider that that 64-bit systems are actually less efficient in the following ways:

1. Data requires double the space they previously needed.
2. Likewise instructions and operands are longer meaning double space taken in memory and in executable files.
3. Reading/writing data to mass storage requires more work.

In order to support a 64-bit system, you will find that 16GB storage and 2GB main memory will become very, very tight.

64 bit systems are most useful when you need to address more than 4GB of main memory. This is the point when it necessity overrides the new platform's 'bloat'. As most high-end Smartphones and tablets (including the Apple 5S) ship with no more than 2GB of memory, they have not hit that 'necessary evil' plateau yet.

There is another part of this story. I have been in the software (and PC hardware) development world for about 35 years. I have seen common PC architectures rise from the lowly 6502, 8080 and Z80 through 16 bit architectures like the Motorola 68000 and 8086 (that fake 16-bit 8088 proc used in the IBM PC does not count!!) up to the Intel 80386 which is the grandpappy of the 32-bit architectures used today. And yes even saw the dawning of the AMD64 architecture & snickered when Intel adopted it into their processors.

In pretty much every case, the only way to get customers using the next step in 'bitness' architecture, was to provide a compatibility layer (we called it "thunking" back in the day) to support the outgoing architecture. Very few developers really wrote apps for the new architectures for the first few years until market penetration gave them a viable reason to do so. We always depended on the new architecture having that compatibility layer to run our old apps in the short term. In the windows world, about 40% of developers create only the 32-bit versions of their apps and depend on the WOW64 layer to handle them. Less efficient on a 64-bit system, but gets the job done without re-writing and most customers really don't notice the difference.

Unless apple is providing this compatibility layer on their platform, users will end up being very unhappy with iPhone 5S purchases.

RE: Spin
By Dug on 9/10/13, Rating: -1
RE: Spin
By ipay on 9/11/2013 1:24:08 AM , Rating: 2
Once someone comments they can't down rank anyone, you retard. Your down ranks are all from people who haven't commented.

RE: Spin
By Dug on 9/11/13, Rating: -1
RE: Spin
By Monkey's Uncle on 9/11/2013 9:21:04 PM , Rating: 1
Hey dipshit. Read some of the comments. There are quite a few of them that shot down your misinformed assumptions (64-bit integers are 4 times as fast in a 64-bit architecture).

Just so you are aware - most software developers use the native integer size when coding their apps. That means integers in an app compiled with a 32-bit compiler will be 32-bits. Likewise apps using integers in a 64-bit compiled app will be 64-bits (but not always - there are some languages that limit even long ints to 32-bits on a 64-bit system).

for that 2% of apps that actually attempt to manipulate 64-bit data in a 32-bit architecture, I would disagree with your assertion. Read my previous responses why.

RE: Spin
By chripuck on 9/11/2013 3:33:57 PM , Rating: 2
The burden of proof is on you, not anyone else. The claim by the manufacturer is that it is twice as fast, prove otherwise.

RE: Spin
By Labotomizer on 9/10/2013 3:28:09 PM , Rating: 5
Well, 64 bit systems tend to increase memory usage of applications by 10-20%. So I suppose that's a benefit? It also hasn't exceeded 4GB of memory, and no single application can use more than 2GB. So, ummm... Not a benefit there.

So, could you please enlighten us on what the benefits of a 64 bit OS is on a mobile device? Because the reason it's good on your laptop/desktop don't apply to the new iPhone. At all.

RE: Spin
By Dug on 9/10/13, Rating: -1
RE: Spin
By Monkey's Uncle on 9/12/2013 12:30:31 PM , Rating: 1
Do you have any idea at all what a register is?

By your comments so far it seems you have no idea what purpose these processor features are used for.

Recommendation: Before highlighting your ignorance by commenting further it may do you some good to read a book on assembly language programming. Pay close attention to word size and what has to happen to fetch words to and from main memory.


RE: Spin
By Kiffberet on 9/11/2013 8:10:13 AM , Rating: 2
Why move to 64bits?

Because it's there.

RE: Spin
By xti on 9/11/2013 12:06:11 PM , Rating: 2
same reason for 80 megapixel cameras. because phones cant scratch your nuts yet.

RE: Spin
By Tony Swash on 9/10/13, Rating: 0
RE: Spin
By retrospooty on 9/10/2013 3:38:30 PM , Rating: 3
"Please, enlighten us on the benefits of 64bit on a phone very little memory to address."

I re-iterate the question (with the snotty part removed). You quoted it and didn't answer it in any way. What does 64 bit do on a phone with so little RAM?

RE: Spin
By Tony Swash on 9/10/2013 4:06:20 PM , Rating: 1
I re-iterate the question (with the snotty part removed). You quoted it and didn't answer it in any way. What does 64 bit do on a phone with so little RAM?

Ben Bajarin at Techpinions has this to day.

The biggest surprise for me was the announcement that the new A7 processor in the iPhone 5S is the worlds first 64 bit processor in a smart phone. We heard this rumor early on but I dismissed it thinking it would be too soon to move to 64 bit. Apple, however, believes it is the right time.
1 billion transistors. That is truly remarkable. I’m not going to go into the depth’s of 64 bit architectures but I’ll make a few points on why this is a big deal.

First, 64 bit will dramatically increase the performance of more intensive and demanding applications. Things like audio and video encoding / decoding and any graphically intense applications including games and other visually complex applications. I talked to several prominent developers in the crowd who were extremely excited about the possibilities with 64 bit computing in mobile devices.

What makes this move to 64 bit all that more interesting is the software. iOS 7 is the worlds first 64 bit mobile operating system. The key to 64 bit processors is to have software which is written to take advantage of it. Here again is where we see Apple’s vertical advantage kick in. They control the hardware, design the SoC, and control the software. All these things have led them to create the worlds most advanced processor and operating system. But it is not just about Apple.

Apple likes to do things that give developers a distinct advantage for their apps on iOS. 64 bit will do just that and I am excited to see how developers can take advantage of the A7 and create the most amazing smartphone applications ever created.

The A7 and 64 bit, and potentially the results it yields in terms of third party software, gives Apple a distinct time advantage over competitors. No competitors are even close to bringing 64 bit and even for some platforms like Android which is focused on the low end non-spec smartphones, it may not even make sense.

I honestly do think that if you don't use iOS, and hence have no experience of using truly high end apps like say Garage Band, you don't realise just how powerful (and hence demanding of hardware) mobile devices can be. Remember that Apple's product line is all about integration, expect a similar sort of chip in the next high end iPad and on tablets the possibilities this sort of architecture opens up is even bigger. Apple are good at making big, bold transitions and this a fine example as it will transition the OS and all of the developer community to 64 bit. This is especially important if there are entirely new devices in the pipeline, remember the way that when the iPad launched there was a complete ecosystem of developers, tools and distribution in place to guarantee and explosion of apps for the new tablet.

BTW did you notice the new M7 coprocessor designed as a motion coprocessor that tracks movement and is optimized for contextual awareness along with an entirely new API called 'core motion'. That's what one calls a 'tell'.

Overall the iPhone 5S seems to be all about building a foundation for lots of future development. Can't wait to see the new iPads.

RE: Spin
By SpartanJet on 9/10/2013 4:10:36 PM , Rating: 4
I read that whole thing and what it comes down to is:


We have the first 64 bit OS that we use to address 1GB ram!

RE: Spin
By retrospooty on 9/10/2013 4:18:31 PM , Rating: 4
"We have the first 64 bit OS that we use to address 1GB ram!"

Yup... It's a kitchen sink faucet of water going down a waterfall. IT may come in handy someday, when the iPhone8 has 4GB RAM, but not for a long long time.

RE: Spin
By retrospooty on 9/10/2013 4:15:12 PM , Rating: 4
Tony, none of that guys opinion is correct. Going 64 bit doesnt improve speed in any way. The chip is faster, because its faster on its 32bit merits, 64bit has zero to do with it. 64bit allows access to more memory registers, but a device with less than 2gb ram couldnt see it anyhow.

I re-re-iterate the question. You quoted it and didn't answer it in any way. What does 64 bit do on a phone with so little RAM?

RE: Spin
By Dorkyman on 9/10/2013 5:35:57 PM , Rating: 2
I really think Samsung needs to introduce a 128-bit phone.

After all, more is better.

Heck, within five years we'll have a 1,024-bit phone. One instruction line will be the entire app. Golly, just think of the possibilities!

RE: Spin
By kingmotley on 9/10/2013 10:19:23 PM , Rating: 2
It's not always about the instructions or the addressable memory range. Having 64-bit registers can speed up many operations (assuming they aren't twice as slow as 32-bit operations + some overhead).

RE: Spin
By Monkey's Uncle on 9/11/2013 9:12:27 PM , Rating: 2
Oh? In what way?

64-bit data is 64-bits long.
64-bit addressing is 64-bits long.
64-bit address operands are 64-bits long.
64 bit data and coded address instruction operands take twice as much memory and storage compared to their 32-bit counterparts.

For a processor to be a 64-bit processor, it MUST have 64-bit registers. None of that makes a 64-bit processor faster than a 32-bit processor running at the same clock speed.

What speed does that processor run? How many instructions per does it execute per cycle? How long are the pipelines? How accurate is its branch prediction and how fast can it flush its dead instructions?

These are all things that determine a processor speed. The 'bitness' has no part in any of that.

Bitness dictates the processor's capacity and its ability to address more than 4GB of memory (how much memory do you have in your smartphone?). Believe me when I say that if you are running less than 4GB of memory, you really do NOT want a 64-bit architecture and programs. They will gobble up that 4GB at an alarming rate - and you will get no speed benefits at all from it.

RE: Spin
By inighthawki on 9/11/2013 2:28:14 AM , Rating: 2
Yeah I'd really like to see them finally implement that 'runios' instruction. It'll be pretty efficient too, cause it's like 1 instruction, right?

RE: Spin
By brasstax on 9/11/2013 1:15:07 AM , Rating: 3
Tony, I almost think your post and quote should get a 6 so everyone reads it for the complete BS it is. Maybe you are just a sucker, or maybe you are a paid shill, I don't know.

The "Techpinions" quote on which you have evidently based your argument reads like the book reports I'd write when I hadn't read the book. It is the terms "64-bit" and "faster" combined with some hyperbole in varying ways and tenses. After the first sentence, there is nary a single informative statement to be found.

Sorry for the harshness, I don't take exception to your stance, only the way you have supported it (I might get the 5S myself). Your quote is a prime example of exactly the type of biased page filler that should be completely ignored regardless of subject matter. For this reason I considered up voting your post. In the end, however, I thought better of it.

"I award you no points, and my God have mercy on your soul".

RE: Spin
By troysavary on 9/11/2013 8:19:35 AM , Rating: 1
I think the Apocalypse is nigh because I am agreeing with Tony. I've been very critical of Apple, and I can see the benefit here.

On the other hand, I guess the watch and TV announcements that many Apple fans were sure were coming are missing. So much for Apple showing how t do a smartwatch right. And Apple will not be dominating the living room after all.

RE: Spin
By SpartanJet on 9/10/2013 3:41:10 PM , Rating: 2
I love the way your reply had nothing to do with the 64bit vs 32bit debate.

Please, tell us how a phone with 1-2gb RAM (too lazy to look it up but I know that the Samsung Note III has the most RAM Ive heard of at 3gb) would benefit AT ALL from a 64 bit OS. Aside from apps using slightly more RAM than they would have in a 32bit environment there is NO benefit right now.

Not that its a bad thing moving to 64 bit, but its no game changer and really not a benefit to this generations iphone users aside from a marketing bullet point.

RE: Spin
By kingmotley on 9/10/2013 10:31:48 PM , Rating: 3
There are many different parts of a processor. The 64-bitness you are thinking of is the addressable memory range. That is just 1 part of a 64-bit computer. The others being integer (register) size, and datapath. Many operations can be done in half the instructions, and execute faster using 64-bit instructions than a comparable 32-bit implementation. In addition, being able to load twice the memory per cycle is a very important aspect of computing performance.

It's the equivalent of tying down your desktop using tape drives. Everyone buys hard drives, not tape drives because they are so much faster. Can you imagine trying to boot your desktop off a tape drive? While the 64-bit datapath isn't quite as drastic, it does make a significant difference. It's why desktops have dual/tri-/quad channel memory after all. It's also why the iPhone 5S load applications so much faster than the 5.

RE: Spin
By Solandri on 9/11/2013 1:49:57 AM , Rating: 5
We went through this when we transitioned from the 80286 to 80386 (16-bit to 32-bit), and again from x86 to amd64 (32-bit to 64-bit).

The 16-bit to 32-bit transition is more drastic because it's a substantial increase in the number range you can represent in a single register. A 16-bit unsigned int (aka a short int) can vary from just 0 to 65535. A 32-bit unsigned int (aka a long int) can vary from 0 to 4,294,967,295. A lot of real-world calcs you do will exceed 65535, so require you to use long ints. Consequently 32-bit CPUs were a significant improvement in speed.

Nearly everything you do will fit in 32-bit registers. Even most scientific programming will fit in 32-bit registers (floats are 32-bit, doubles are 64-bit). So the apps which will benefit from 64-bit registers are very few and far between. They're mostly things which do high-precision 3D graphics and simulation. Hardly the type of thing you'd run on a phone.

You can see this in the first benchmark that turned up in Google. Pure integer operations using 64-bit ints (double longs) were twice as fast on a 64-bit CPU vs 32-bit CPU, as expected. When doing actual math (calculating Pi), the 64-bit CPU was about 35% faster. And when doing byte operations (data compression) the two were virtually identical in speed.

Desktops having dual/tri/quad channel memory is for an entirely different reason than bit-length. Modern CPUs operate so quickly that external memory can't keep up. The CPU itself has 2, sometimes 3 layers of cache memory, each sitting closer to the CPU's die, using successively faster (and more expensive) memory. In one cycle of a 3 GHz CPU, light itself can only travel a bit less than 10 cm, so in many cases the main RAM is positioned more than 1 cycle away from the CPU.

You need the cache memory in order to keep up with the CPU's instruction speed, and you need fast main memory in order to dump data into the cache faster. If the memory isn't fast enough, data won't get transferred in time and the CPU will have to sit idle on a cache miss for one cycle while it waits, regardless of whether it's 32-bit or 64-bit.

Since you can't exceed the speed of light, the only ways to speed up main memory are:

1) Position it closer to the CPU (not physically possible with the size of most CPUs and memory DIMMs).
2) Increase the bandwidth - the number of channels of memory which send data to the CPU simultaneously.

RE: Spin
By talonvor on 9/10/13, Rating: 0
RE: Spin
By kingmotley on 9/10/13, Rating: -1
RE: Spin
By Bobhacks on 9/10/2013 11:38:51 PM , Rating: 2
Yea but those 700 million devices weren't bought primarily for gaming.

RE: Spin
By troysavary on 9/11/2013 8:25:30 AM , Rating: 2
If phones are not built for gaming, then why do people like reclaimer77 list the absence of Candy Crush as the downfall of WinPhone? (Never mind that Candy Crush is just a Bejewelled clone.)

RE: Spin
By BRB29 on 9/16/2013 8:06:33 AM , Rating: 2
because it's a phone first and a gaming device second. I hardly ever game on my phone unless I want to walk around with a dead phone. If I'm at home near my wall chargers, then my gaming choices are:

1. PC
2. Xbox360
3. PS3
4. Ipad
5. Laptop
6. Transformer

Dead last = phone.

You see why 700mil phones does not mean 700mil gaming machines?

Reclaimer77 say a lot of things. I don't know why you hold his words so dearly. He probably meant the absence of many powerful apps are missing on WP8(something that is changing). He just use the most popular app right now which is candy crush.

I see people read emails, news, etc...on their phones more than anything. I only see the teenagers and college kids play games. Working professionals normally need their phone to work so gaming is not an option, not to mention it is unprofessional. It is usually a tool first and entertainment second for everyone I associate with. Iphones are very popular business phones because of its closed nature and high stability.

RE: Spin
By Tony Swash on 9/11/13, Rating: 0
RE: Spin
By Monkey's Uncle on 9/12/2013 1:45:20 PM , Rating: 2
Sorry Bud, but you are comparing a fruit baskets to oranges.

Not sure where you got that '700 million iOS devices' from. I looked at your link and I see roughly 420 million max of iOS devices out there.

iOS is a general purpose OS and its devices are used for many p5ruposes other than playing games. They are not dedicated to gaming so you cannot predict that games are ever played on them. The better metric is the 130 million game center accounts as these reflect those that would use their device for gaming.

Playstation are dedicated to doing one thing and one thing only, and that is playing games. The same for XBox. You did not make as distinction between the iOS devices you were commenting on (typical TS behavior), but I did for you. Playstation 1 - 102.49 million, Playstation 2 - 154.4 million, Playstation 3 - 78 million. That is 334.89 million systems used for nothing at all except gaming.

I would say that over 330 million dedicated gaming machines trumps 130 million gaming accounts any day of the week.

Now with that said, let's look at this the same way you are: by raw device/OS sales:
According to Tony's chart:

420 million iOS devcices (assuming each represents a an iOS license)

100 million Windows 8
600 million Windows 7
384 million Windows Vista
400 million Windows XP

Using Tony's logic and lumping all Windows systems as being 'game capable' we add 'em up and you are looking at 1.484 BILLION gaming systems.

Kinda kick's Apple's butt for them doesn't it?

RE: Spin
By elleehswon on 9/10/2013 3:33:51 PM , Rating: 3
so, if i may chime in. 64 bit is nice to have before you hit that addressable range limit because it gives people time to start writing code for 64bit processors but i think it's going to be a few years before we see 3.23~gb ram smartphones, especially considering considering , as OP mentioned, memory footprint of apps is small. do i want 64 bit? sure. is it needed? no.

what most people don't realize is this is just apple's way of saying..oooh, that app is 64 bit only.. your iphone1-iphone 5,5c won't run, buy this new one!! it does!!

if anything, they should delay apps using 64 bit code until the iphone 5/5c is hitting EOL. by that time, everyone that owns an idevice will be long since off that hardware anyway. but, anyway....GRATS APPLE ON INTRODUCING FRAGMENTATION INTO YOUR HARDWARE PROFILE!!!

RE: Spin
By toffty on 9/10/2013 4:56:58 PM , Rating: 2
what most people don't realize is this is just apple's way of saying..oooh, that app is 64 bit only.. your iphone1-iphone 5,5c won't run, buy this new one!! it does!!

QFT. I can't say this enough but I'll say it at least one more time. QFT.

RE: Spin
By Dug on 9/10/13, Rating: -1
RE: Spin
By toffty on 9/10/2013 6:34:25 PM , Rating: 2
Miss the point much?

If all new apps are made in 64 bit then everyone will have to upgrade to the new 64 bit phone to get the new apps. Sure most apps will be compiled for both 32 and 64 but then if you buy the app in 32 bit can you later get the 64 for free?

RE: Spin
By Dug on 9/11/2013 1:51:24 AM , Rating: 2
It will be compiled for both if the developer decides too. No reason not to except size. There's also no reason why you would pay more for a 64bit version. It won't be any difference from OS X apps, windows 32 or 64bit, adobe photoshop 32and 64bit.

RE: Spin
By Solandri on 9/11/2013 2:02:36 AM , Rating: 2
64 bit is nice to have before you hit that addressable range limit because it gives people time to start writing code for 64bit processors

Actually, for anything written in C or a higher language, it's mostly a matter of replacing all instances of "int" with "long long", and "float" with "double". The only reason the x86 to amd64 transition took a while was because many legacy software companies had optimized their programs with small sections written in hand-tuned assembly. All those had to be re-written to work on 64-bit CPUs. e.g. If you used bit shift operations, the logic of the math no longer worked when you converted to 64-bit.

RE: Spin
By troysavary on 9/11/2013 8:15:21 AM , Rating: 2
Whether or not 64 bit is useful on a phone remains to be seen. I don't care about that. But hitting 64 bit on ARM before ARM does it themselves is anachievement. People, myself included, have said Apple never innovates. Getting somewhere before anyone else does is innovation. Specs only matter when it is favour of Android, I guess. Apple and WinPhone clearly suck because there are no quad core chips in those phones. But now when someone has something no Android phone has, it isn't needed. Isn't this the attitude that Apple fans have been criticized for?

Step out of the Cult of Google long enough to see that even Apple can do something new sometimes. This is a big step to future-proofing the iOS ecosystem. It also leaves room for Apple to release a much more powerful iPad in the future. Aren't iPads dismissed as toys that can't do real work? With this chip and OS update, Apple could leave Android tablets in the dust, power wise.

RE: Spin
By Reclaimer77 on 9/11/2013 8:31:43 AM , Rating: 2
This is just a custom version of the existing ARMv8 architecture. It's not like Apple invented the 64bit ARM SoC. It's been available for some time.

This may shock people, but hey, I give props to Apple for being first to the market with this. However the reason they are, is because nobody else sees the point in doing so for a smartphone. It solves no problems, adds no benefits, and introduces several new problems. Like now having a fragmented app store of 32 and 64bit apps.

But I want to avoid the 64-bit bashfest going on here and simply point out that this isn't an Apple innovation. They're using an existing ARM 64bit architecture for this chip design. But this phone will be far obsolete before users get any benefit out of 64bit.

RE: Spin
By testerguy2 on 9/12/2013 11:05:15 AM , Rating: 2
What absolute bollocks you talk.

This is just a custom version of the existing ARMv8 architecture

Er, no. It's a completely bespoke architecture using an ARMv8 Instruction set , and they created it before anyone else could. Their custom architectures have both so far absolutely destroyed the competition in terms of power efficiency and performance.

It's not like Apple invented the 64bit ARM SoC

Er, no, no 64-bit ARM SoC has been available, ever, by anyone. And what Apple's used isn't that, either, it's their own design.

However the reason they are, is because nobody else sees the point in doing so for a smartphone

More absolute drivel. Samsung only today has come out saying their next phones will be 64-bit. They are just playing catchup. Their precious 4 month-old baby has already been left standing, as happens every year to people who don't shove their head up their arses.

Extremetech to make a point? Desperate. If you don't know why 64-bit is useful you have obviously never developed advanced games.

and introduces several new problems. Like now having a fragmented app store of 32 and 64bit apps

More absolute bollocks. If you're using a 5S and a 64 bit version is available it'll download that one seamlessly, it'll all appear as a single app. And if 64 bit isn't available it'll download the 32 bit one which will also work perfectly. And for developers to compile into 64-bit takes absolutely tiny changes which wont take longer than a few minutes.

You are so, so retarded. And even you're feigned attempt to make out like you're balanced by giving Apple 'props' comes with it's criticism in the rest of your post.

Absolute fanboy.

RE: Spin
By Meinolf on 9/11/2013 8:47:39 AM , Rating: 1
All I can say is everyone I know that has a android based product has crashing issues and lock ups. My iPhone has not had one issue since I got it over 2 years ago. Also iPad is the best tablet on the market I tested just about every tablet for work and nothing comes close the the speed/touch response/ease of use. Yes nothing is ground breaking but why does it need to be if it is the best at what it does.

RE: Spin
By Rukkian on 9/11/2013 10:12:25 AM , Rating: 3
I am sorry, but I call a big BS. Are there poorly written apps in android, sure! Are there in IOS - absolutely. If you "friends" all having constant crashing issues, then they are either using old, or cheap phones or are installing crap applications.

IOS devices are not immune to poorly written code by idiot developers anymore than any other device. If you have never had any crash, great, you are like several IOS users I know that do nothing but candy crush without ever really stressing your precious I-Device.

I actually am impressed they went with 64bit, but I really hoped they would bring something more to the table, if for no other reason than to push google and the android manufacturers even further. They added 64bit, which is nice, and I can see the advantage to the fingerprint reader, but otherwise everything they announced has been available for 1+years.

I have many friends that have IOS, and will never try anything else. I understand that, but even then tend to use several google products (maps for instance) since it is better, and then complain that they cannot set the default app. This locked down handholding is a big reason why many do not care for it, even if we see some nice hardware out of it.

Bottom line, every phone has strengths and weaknesses, don't be a fanboy either way.

RE: Spin
By retrospooty on 9/10/2013 3:27:06 PM , Rating: 2
"Moving to 64 bits and rewriting the OS for that is way more impressive than the DPI pissing contest in the Android realm"

How is that? What does 64 bit addressing do for you in a phone with 1GB RAM? The screen is important. It's only the part you look at and interface with 100% of the time.

RE: Spin
By Argon18 on 9/10/13, Rating: -1
RE: Spin
By retrospooty on 9/10/2013 5:22:37 PM , Rating: 2
This seems to be the questsion of the day... What does 64 bit addressing do for you in a phone with 1GB RAM?

RE: Spin
By Dug on 9/10/13, Rating: -1
RE: Spin
By retrospooty on 9/10/2013 6:12:02 PM , Rating: 2
No, you didnt... You said this (and a few other lines)

"It isn't just the 64bit OS, it's also the the 64bit CPU.
64-bit integers are almost 4x as fast in 64-bit code. Better code, no shifting of resources when you have access to them all the time."

This can be true when dealing with large amounts of data. It's minimally true on a high end PC today that gets heavy use in certain data intensive appslications, but mobile and all software written for it is designed to be small and efficient. 64 bit on mobile today is like buying an 18 wheel semi truck to go to the grocery store and buy milk and bread.

I am not saying its not useful some day, but we wont be seeing benefits for a long time. Better forward thinking than backwards though. It's not a "Bad thing", its just not all that good today.

RE: Spin
By Dug on 9/10/13, Rating: -1
RE: Spin
By talonvor on 9/10/2013 7:26:47 PM , Rating: 3
The problem is that even though 4 hands can juggle more, in this case there isn't anything to juggle.

While its a cool thing, its not something that makes a difference. There are no practical benefits to having it at this time. Though I have no doubt we will see a flood of worthless 64 bit apps, I don't need a clock that's programmed in 64 bit. It doesn't do anything for me. 64 bit makes sense on things like a PC, where having more than 4gb of ram is a positive and the fact that there are more and more large apps that have switched over to 64 bit.

Those things are valid reasons to switch to 64 bit. There is not a single valid reason for making the switch on a phone of all things! Not one single valid reason!

RE: Spin
By Dug on 9/10/13, Rating: 0
RE: Spin
By kingmotley on 9/10/2013 10:39:10 PM , Rating: 2
Except most applications can use the 64 registers. Do you or have you ever used a program that compares two strings? Yes, it's much much faster if you align them and use 64-bit operands to compare them (up to 8 times as fast) as doing it a byte at a time. Many compilers will do this automatically for you. Moving a chunk of memory around? Yes, most programs do that too. Also, up to 8 times as fast as doing it a byte at a time.

Also a 64-bit datapath also means the processor can access its memory twice as fast (the equivalent of dual channel memory in simplistic terms).

RE: Spin
By retrospooty on 9/10/2013 7:40:52 PM , Rating: 2
"4 hands can juggle more than 2"

Yes, but in your scenario, a big SQL server has 4 balls and a high end PC has 2, and a phone has 1 ball.

"You will be seeing benefits when it is released."

The CPU is faster, but even when all 32 bit its a lot faster. Apples CPU's always are. What will tell, is when current 3rd party apps that are now 32 bit get recoded for 64bit and we will see if the before and after work any better or any faster. (Hint, we have been through this on PC and Mac and it was extremely minimal, and only noticeable at all when large amounts of data were flowing). Phones are designed around NOT having large amounts of data.

RE: Spin
By Dug on 9/11/2013 2:11:16 AM , Rating: 1
Again it has nothing to do with large amounts of data. You are still thinking in terms of addressable memory which isn't the point I'm trying to make, or the reason to use a 64bit os and proc. Really, please take some courses in programming so you understand the benefits. Apple isn't going to spend the time or resources to create a 64bit os and proc because there's no benefit. Because so much of what the iPhone does natively (look at all the included apps), it will benefit. There's no way it couldn't.

Look at any program that's takes advantage of Intel's instruction set as an example. This is exactly what will happen with iOS in 64bit. Those instruction sets aren't relying on large amounts of memory or data, they are just optimized to do instructions faster.

RE: Spin
By retrospooty on 9/11/2013 10:14:59 AM , Rating: 2
OF course there is benefits... it's just that users wont see them today. It's more of a "laying the ground work" for the future... No-one was saying it's a bad move or shouldn't be done, just that it isn't going to affect much in todays iPhone. Touting 64 bit OS is a bit gimmicky like touting quad/Octa cores. A lott of touting and a little benefit.

RE: Spin
By troysavary on 9/11/2013 8:21:22 AM , Rating: 1
Why is 64 bit overkill but quad-core not overkill? Android fands are even worse than Apple fans, I am coming to see.

RE: Spin
By retrospooty on 9/11/2013 10:11:50 AM , Rating: 2
Who said quad wasn't? Both are sort of future proofing but very little benefit as of today. Better to have than have not, but neither are game changing features on todays phones.

RE: Spin
By Argon18 on 9/10/2013 9:16:40 PM , Rating: 1
You keep mentioning RAM. Apparently you don't understand technology enough to be participating in this discussion. RAM addressing has nothing to do with it.

RE: Spin
By retrospooty on 9/10/2013 9:50:15 PM , Rating: 2
read on. you're replying to the middle of a thread that went on before you even replied.

RE: Spin
By Samus on 9/10/2013 5:56:18 PM , Rating: 3
Yet again, IOS hasn't changed since 2007.


RE: Spin
By troysavary on 9/11/2013 8:29:42 AM , Rating: 2
Yeah, rewriting the kernel is not changing one bit.

RE: Spin
By Argon18 on 9/10/13, Rating: -1
RE: Spin
By Jeffk464 on 9/10/2013 5:15:35 PM , Rating: 2
I sure hope the thumbprint ID works better on the iphone then on my lenovo laptop.

RE: Spin
By Jorgexyz on 9/12/2013 3:35:28 PM , Rating: 2
To end speculations on what 64-bit architecture offers to normal use of the iPhone 5S and to answer its advantage over the old 32-bit architecture, let us reference ARM Holdings' own research.

The Cortex-A53 processor is the most efficient application processor ever, delivering mainstream smartphone experience in a quarter of the power in the respective process nodes.

The Cortex-A53 extremely power efficient ARMv8 processor is capable of supporting 32-bit ARMv7 code in AArch32 state and 64-bit code in the AArch64 execution state. It delivers more performance at higher power efficiency than the Cortex-A9 processor, and is capable of deployment as a standalone main applications processor which defines today's high-end mobile platforms.

The Cortex-A53 processor can be implemented individually or paired with the Cortex-A57 processor in a big.LITTLE configuration for optimum performance, scalability and energy efficiency.
Using ARM big.LITTLE technology the Cortex-A53 processor will efficiently run your connected life. This connected life will not just be the social media, news and email updates that you receive today, but will also enable devices to be contextually aware and connect to the Internet of things. Contextual awareness is already happening in smartphones today, but the Cortex-A53 processor's ultra-efficiency will allow your smartphone to use its sensor information, calendar, contact information and location-based services to provide relevant information.

The Cortex-A53 processor can deliver the compute power of today’s high-end smartphone, in lowest power and area footprint, enabling all-day battery life for typical device uses, Efficiently runs legacy ARM 32-bit applications; Features cache coherent interoperability with ARM Mali family graphics processing units (GPUs) for GPU compute applications; Offers optional reliability and scalability features for high-performance enterprise applications; Connects seamlessly to ARM interconnect IP with up to 16 core configurations with more in the future.

The Cortex-A57 processor delivers significantly more performance than Cortex-A15 processors, at a higher level of power efficiency. The performance increase on a range of integer and memory workloads: 75% faster browsing,96.4% better SPEC benchmark, 66% faster streaming, 135% better Dhrystone benchmark, based on 32-bit code. Performance for floating point code is expected to increase even more, and general object oriented code is also expected to improve significantly when recompiled to AArch64 to fully take advantage of the architectural features of ARMv8.

You can google search what these benchmarks are, if you are really interested to know the detailed work involved.

By half_duplex on 9/10/2013 2:04:16 PM , Rating: 3
Touch ID for the phone and apps...

That's pretty big.

RE: Wow
By russki on 9/10/2013 2:08:20 PM , Rating: 4

RE: Wow
By superflex on 9/10/2013 2:35:47 PM , Rating: 2
pathetic if that's what you consider big

RE: Wow
By valkator on 9/10/2013 2:53:45 PM , Rating: 4
You must hear that from your girlfriend all the time eh?

RE: Wow
By Tony Swash on 9/10/13, Rating: -1
RE: Wow
By Labotomizer on 9/10/2013 3:25:04 PM , Rating: 4
While interesting I think you're blowing it out of proportion and making a bit much of it. Laptops have had biometrics for years and it hasn't been widely adopted in the enterprise. And current MDM solutions account for the weaknesses in the device by requiring a separate password. Which I suppose the biometic could, in a few years, be tied into the MDM solutions. If that does happen though it will be based on a standard that other phones support as well and will not be limited to Apple.

If security were as important as you're trying to make it out to be BB10 would have done extremely well in enterprise. It's the most secure of all the mobile OS'es. And yet, it didn't.

Not saying it isn't useful. Just saying it isn't the "coming of a new age" of mobile computing.

RE: Wow
By FITCamaro on 9/10/2013 9:21:40 PM , Rating: 3
Cell phones have had biometrics for years too. I used to work at AuthenTec who Apple bought to get this technology from and in 2005 we were playing with phones from Korea, Vietnam, and Japan that had 720p screens, 8MP cameras, and fingerprint sensors that could be used to unlock the phone, for navigation, and even to buy things from vending machines using RFID.

We're using technology now that the Asian world had almost a decade ago.

RE: Wow
By elleehswon on 9/10/2013 3:46:41 PM , Rating: 2
Apple is a closed source company. If the government was going to use iphones as secured devices, they'd have to be running a custom kernel..good luck with apple giving that up... The govvies are already using android for that as they roll their own linux kernel.

RE: Wow
By superstition on 9/10/2013 5:52:02 PM , Rating: 2
Apple and ever other large tech company already rolled over on encryption backdoors and all the rest.

I guess you haven't been following the NSA scandal.

When the government says "I want" the tech companies ask how high they should jump.

RE: Wow
By kyuuketsuki on 9/10/2013 4:24:02 PM , Rating: 3
FIngerprint readers are not more secure than a simple password. In fact, it's really less secure. Even a 4-digit PIN is pretty hard to crack when it's only stored locally on the device. It's not that hard for a motivated person to get your fingerprints from any number of sources (you touch a lot of stuff everyday, after all). Also, a backup password is mandatory as otherwise any number of accidents could result in you being temporarily or permanently locked out of your device (losing your finger/hand/arm, burning your finger, the fingerprint reader breaking, etc.).

What fingerprint scanners *are* good for is convenience. It's much easier to touch your thumb to the home button to unlock your device than to enter a password or even a PIN. On that front, the fingerprint reader is pretty nifty. But it certainly doesn't enhance security.

RE: Wow
By kyuuketsuki on 9/10/2013 4:26:41 PM , Rating: 2
One source of your fingerprint that just occurred to me: the screen of the device itself.

RE: Wow
By web2dot0 on 9/11/2013 9:46:24 AM , Rating: 2
You can get someone's finger prints ... but will it be detected a "legit" finger prints? How do you know Apple's technology won't be able to detect it?

You assumptions are not based on facts, but rather conjucture. Before you judge, give it a try, or at least wait for the reviewers to report back the results.

Right now, you just look like a troll.

FYI, the fingerprint info is only stored on the device itself, and not in icloud,etc .... read the article.

Seriously ? 16GB?
By retrospooty on 9/10/2013 2:29:05 PM , Rating: 2
In 2013 a supposed "high end phone" with no SD card has only 16GB ram as the starter? I am sure its fast and solidly built, but with its small, low res low DPI screen and lack of memory Apple is really pushing the limits of mediocrity here. Not impressed.

What would impress me is a larger screen with higher res and DPI. I would bet my left nut that an iPhone Mega model would sell insane quantities of phones.

RE: Seriously ? 16GB?
By Brandon Hill on 9/10/2013 2:29:57 PM , Rating: 2
I know, right? They've been using the 16GB as the starter for years. Time to stop being so stingy.

RE: Seriously ? 16GB?
By retrospooty on 9/10/2013 2:39:48 PM , Rating: 2
YA, I really expected 32gb with the $199 model. WTF? I guess thier fans will buy it no matter what, so why not eek a few extra $$$ out of it. LOL.

The 5C seems like a good idea though. A cheaper model, for those that dont care about shiny metal. I am sure it will sell alot.

RE: Seriously ? 16GB?
By BSMonitor on 9/10/13, Rating: -1
RE: Seriously ? 16GB?
By retrospooty on 9/10/2013 2:54:12 PM , Rating: 2
You can be as impressed as you want to be with a 16gb low res low DPI phone. It is fast and well built. If that impresses you by all means, go for it. I want something better.

RE: Seriously ? 16GB?
By BSMonitor on 9/10/13, Rating: -1
RE: Seriously ? 16GB?
By retrospooty on 9/10/2013 3:23:56 PM , Rating: 2
Why you so angry bro? Didn't mommy love you?

RE: Seriously ? 16GB?
By lelias2k on 9/10/2013 3:36:46 PM , Rating: 2
I'm not really getting where your "low DPI" comment comes from.

The Retina display has 326ppi (not dpi, there's a difference).

The human eye, in general , hardly can distinguish anything above 300ppi.

I'd say display technologies are more relevant than ppi nowadays.

RE: Seriously ? 16GB?
By retrospooty on 9/10/2013 3:47:53 PM , Rating: 2
"The human eye, on average , hardly can distinguish anything above 300ppi."


20/20 vision, is average vision, not perfect vision. The retina spec is targeted at average vision. If you have above average vision, you can see pixels. Over 400 is much better for users with good eyes.

"I'd say display technologies are more relevant than ppi nowadays."

In some ways, if the rest is good, but the iPhone has small screen, low res and low ppi compared to its competition. To me the screen is a major weakpoint. The 5S is another "same exact thing but faster". Oh boy.

RE: Seriously ? 16GB?
By kwrzesien on 9/10/2013 3:06:38 PM , Rating: 2
I'm most upset about the $100 per memory tier. That is so 2009-2012. Change that to $50/tier and everything looks better, especially if the 5S was 32/64/128 for $199/149/299. The value sell on more memory just isn't there anymore with the cloud and upgrading phones every year or two.

RE: Seriously ? 16GB?
By justsomeone on 9/10/2013 4:25:26 PM , Rating: 2
I'd be most upset with no option to add a memory card and being forced to pay whatever price they decide.

RE: Seriously ? 16GB?
By kingmotley on 9/10/2013 10:52:20 PM , Rating: 2
If by "years" you mean the most recent iPhone, then yes. Only the iPhone 5 had 16GB as the starter.

RE: Seriously ? 16GB?
By tayb on 9/10/13, Rating: -1
Stock price
By elleehswon on 9/10/2013 4:46:56 PM , Rating: 5
Anyone else find it comical that Apple releases new products and their stock price immediately drops 11 points?

RE: Stock price
By troysavary on 9/11/2013 8:37:07 AM , Rating: 1
That was largely because of the hype of the thought to be announced Apple TV and Apple Watch that were missing. People got worked up by predictions Apple was going to announce devices that would rule the living room and the wrist.

RE: Stock price
By Cheesew1z69 on 9/11/2013 9:47:50 AM , Rating: 2
Down 22 right now...

RE: Stock price
By momorere on 9/11/2013 10:01:44 AM , Rating: 2
Down 26.07 as of this writing. I only wished it would have stayed at 30 down or fell even further during after hours trading.

By crispbp04 on 9/10/2013 4:33:45 PM , Rating: 2
"Nintendo: 64-bits since 1996"

RE: 64-bit
By Quicksand Jesus on 9/10/2013 5:20:02 PM , Rating: 3
C'mon dude! The Atari Jaguar had it beat by 3 years!

RE: 64-bit
By danbob999 on 9/10/2013 5:53:50 PM , Rating: 2
Except the Game Cube and Wii, which were 32 bit.
There was no benefit to 64 bit back then. Just like there is no benefit to 64 bit on a phone with 1-2 GB RAM.

RE: 64-bit
By FITCamaro on 9/10/2013 9:23:28 PM , Rating: 2
You're also thinking graphics, not processor.

So the original iPhone 5 is now dead !
By KiwiTT on 9/10/2013 2:51:13 PM , Rating: 2
I suppose they could not find a price point for it. I'll still keep my iPhone 5 64GB. It does what it is supposed to do and it will run iOS7 and I really don't need a gimmicky fingerprint scanner or more fancy camera. And sheesh 64-bit ... who needs that.

RE: So the original iPhone 5 is now dead !
By kwrzesien on 9/10/2013 3:00:54 PM , Rating: 2
Of course you will! You dropped $200 more for that extra 48 GB of flash, better hold onto it for a LONG time.

I only buy the base model. That being said, 16 GB is no longer enough and the base model of a premium phone should be 32 GB in 2013/2014. Would you upgrade to an iPhone 5S 128 GB for $399? Especially with the Apple trade-in plan?

By KiwiTT on 9/10/2013 3:12:32 PM , Rating: 2
I think I will be hanging on to mine until the iPhone 8. I am only using less than a 1/4 of my existing 64GB, so that gives me about 4 years or so.

Looks Familiar
By Dingmatt on 9/10/2013 2:07:14 PM , Rating: 5
I looks like the Nokia Lumia 620

By flatrock on 9/10/2013 2:21:04 PM , Rating: 2
What's with the pastel colors plus white? I like the idea of putting the previous model in fresh packaging rather than just dropping the price by $100. I suspect they are also saving a little money with cheaper materials.

I don't understand the color choices. I understand that teen aged girls are a sizable market, but I would have thought they would have at least included black as an option.

The 64-bit processor is a good step forward. Better to do it now rather than when the 4 GB limit of 32 bit processors becomes a serious limitation.

Maybe the fingerprint reader will be more popular on the iPhone than it has been on laptops. Apple has done well with borrowing ideas, wrapping them in the Apple mystique, and somehow making them strong features. Maybe it will happen again.

RE: Pastels?
By darkhawk1980 on 9/10/2013 3:00:27 PM , Rating: 2
While the fingerprint scanner is interesting, it's just another thing to break and to go wrong with the phone, given how delicate it will obviously be.

The 64 bit is also a nice step forward, but when the Iphone5 still only had 1 gig of ram, why was it even needed? Yes, because they're going to jump from 1gb to 4gb in 1 model? Even competitor phones are only starting to come with 2gb standard right now, and even the higher end phones are coming with 3gb. While it's nice to have, it certainly wasn't NEEDED right now, especially on an iphone of all things.

The rest of the phone really was a complete 'meh' about it. Nothing new, more expensive than the previous model was, and much more expensive than other high end phones. Why bother with this? I'm not sure why, even my best friend who was a die hard Apple fanatic is seriously considering a Note 3 now over the Iphone. I can't blame him.

No Retina Mini :/
By half_duplex on 9/10/2013 2:21:54 PM , Rating: 2
I was hoping for a Retina mini... guess I'll keep waiting.

RE: No Retina Mini :/
By retrospooty on 9/10/2013 2:48:57 PM , Rating: 2
I am pretty sure that is coming. THe on again off again REtine mini rumor looks to be on for Q4.

A Retina mini, if still $329ish would be the one Apple product I would buy (based on currrent lineup). Perfect size, great res.

The plastic 5C is heavier
By KiwiTT on 9/10/2013 3:15:35 PM , Rating: 2
... than the old metal iPhone 5 - 132 grams versus 112 grams.

RE: The plastic 5C is heavier
By superstition on 9/10/2013 5:46:43 PM , Rating: 2
That was done purposefully. They want people to spend more for the 5s.

By flyingpants1 on 9/11/2013 1:01:36 AM , Rating: 2
You guys are uninformed. If you read Anandtech, you'd know the reason for the move to 64-bit is to improve future compatibility between OSX/iOS.

By Monkey's Uncle on 9/12/2013 2:03:28 PM , Rating: 2

Finally somebody that gets it.

5C ?
By Nutzo on 9/10/2013 2:16:20 PM , Rating: 2
So, does the C stand for Color, Cheap, or Copy (for the features they are copying from Android) ?

Now that you can lock the phone to your finger print, the crooks are going to have to take you finger if the want to use the phone :O

Sticking with HTC One
By half_duplex on 9/10/2013 2:54:47 PM , Rating: 2
I like everything about iOS 7 and the 5S... but seeing the 16Gb storage for the entry level, I'll stick with what I got for now. Kind of lame.

By NanoTube1 on 9/10/2013 3:10:09 PM , Rating: 2
Apple is DOOMED!

Scared of finger prints
By Dug on 9/10/2013 3:10:11 PM , Rating: 2
The concern over fingerprints is laughable.
You people concerned about Apple getting your fingerprints really should get in touch with reality.
You do realize almost all kids are fingerprinted when they are born or in school anyway. Many don't remember because it's usually in kindergarten or 1st grade. Even many health care providers take fingerprints. So the NSA and other government entities already have that info.

I mean really? Do you wipe down your glass after eating out. Maybe the hostess or busboy will lift your prints and sell them. And then what?

Apple, Google, Paypal, Ebay, cell phone provider, etc. already have your credit card info. That's more scary than them having your fingerprint.

TV Comment
By SDBud on 9/10/2013 3:14:13 PM , Rating: 2

Techie on MSNBC said it all..

5C for 'cheap', 5S for 'same'...

By jordanl17 on 9/10/2013 3:18:44 PM , Rating: 2
When I provision someone's new iphone 90% of the time don't know their itunes pw. NOW after using their thumb for 2 years... or between phone breaks/drops, ...

(when setting up a users new phone after they've had the 5s for awhile)
------------------------------------------------- ---
me: what's your apple password?
user: my thumb.
me: that won't work on your new phone yet.
user: why?
me: it just won't.
user: why?
me: it just doesn't. trust me.
user: how do I get my password?
me: use your username at
user: what's my username?
me: go to the apple store, goodbye!

you guys need to lighten up
By superstition on 9/10/2013 5:44:52 PM , Rating: 2
This thing has coating point registers, a major technological innovation.

The new chip has 2 general purpose registers, 2 coating point registers, and over a billion transistors (102mm2 die size).

more color on iphone
By henhill69 on 9/10/2013 6:04:07 PM , Rating: 2
iPhone 5S, 5C and iOS 7 in greater detail @

It's not about the marketshare
By Fleeb on 9/10/2013 6:52:22 PM , Rating: 2
I think I heard that somewhere.

Fingerprint sensor
By FITCamaro on 9/10/2013 9:17:47 PM , Rating: 2
This is the result of them buying AuthenTec. If the driver is installed, the sensor can also double as a trackpad that supports single and double tap.

2 coating point registers
By ie5x on 9/10/2013 11:52:13 PM , Rating: 2
Now that's a feature I have never heard before... Anyone care to tell me whats a "coating" point register? Sounds impressive though...

Disappointed Apple Fan
By WhatKaniSay on 9/11/2013 11:19:41 AM , Rating: 2
To begin with, I love Apple products due to its simplicity, cohesive integration/implementation, More focus on functionality Less on Specs, and the overall User-Experience.
I have several gadgets made by Apple, from ATVs, iMacs, Macbooks, iPods, iPhones. You name it, I presently or at some point in time owned them.

I also use non-apple products side-by-side almost on daily bases --per job requirement …(media production). To cover a broad client base, we utilize and/or test against various platforms such as Windows (servers and hi-end workstations), Linux (for web services), Roku, Boxee, Tivo mini, Netgear, etc (for streaming).
From that practical real world experience, I'm able to discern performance and reliability differences between Apple and non-apple, hence my leaning towards Apple products.


It is now obvious that Steve Jobs is gone for good.
How could it be that no one was able to grab and keep Steve's shadow after many years with the man?
How could they not introduce a $49 contract phone?
How about throwing in some red meat to reinvigorate momentum by knocking off $50 from their standard price or increase storage for the same price? Example, 16GB iPhone-5S for $149 or bump up the storage to 24/32 for $199?
How could they not notice that current iPhone screen real estate is way over-due for increase?
How about using Steve Job’s “One-more-Thing” line to announce one or two other product update such as Macbook, or the MacPro which was previewed in June?
Finger print scanner is not a must-have feature to compel me to upgrade to 5S.
In fact, for the first time, I am seriously considering switching to Blackberry 10 or Nokia......if I can find a way to convert all my existing apps or find comparable ones on either of the mentioned platforms.

Thank you Team Apple. You're surely giving your users reasons to reconsider.

Weak Sauce Reveal
By jahwarrior on 9/11/2013 12:33:47 PM , Rating: 2
I like apple products..but this reveal was weak look at the stock its getting crushed..

This is how I see it....

Camera=playing catch up
64bit chip=unnecessary for now with only 1-2 gb of ram
ios7=coming to every other iphone/ipad nothing special
Finger print scanner=only true innovation

Apple should have made the 5s the budget phone and iphone 6 with a larger screen and more tech the premium phone. They can't wait another year for a refresh I expect the iphone 6 will come soon--2qtr 2014. Apple has lost a step..

Apple Inc.
By henhill69 on 9/16/2013 11:37:45 AM , Rating: 2
I really wish...
By piroroadkill on 9/12/2013 3:56:21 AM , Rating: 1
... That nobody, ever, ever again, posted "with contract" prices for phones.

It's not only misleading, it's worse than that, because it's meaningless. A price point simply thrown up to add a "woo" when it means you're locked into two years of some shitty contract.

Contract free prices, please.

In the land of the NSA and PRISM
By EasyC on 9/10/13, Rating: -1
RE: In the land of the NSA and PRISM
By Brandon Hill on 9/10/2013 2:15:56 PM , Rating: 2
Reading fail.

RE: In the land of the NSA and PRISM
By EasyC on 9/10/2013 2:22:26 PM , Rating: 2
You're assuming I was referring to the content in your article.

RE: In the land of the NSA and PRISM
By GulWestfale on 9/10/2013 2:48:13 PM , Rating: 2
fingerprint sensors have been used on other phones before, so this isn't exatctly new or innovating or unique to apple. the problem of the NSA accessing the device and retrieving your data is a real one, for everyone. apple is a known collaborator, so for me this is one more reason to avoid their products (as if i needed more).

as for the rest of the "news":
there is nothing new or exciting about the 5S at all.
the 5C is simply their old model, and instead of selling the old model at a reduced price alongside the new one, they increased their margins by making it cheaper to make and then announcing it as a new model.

oh, and 39 dollars for a silicone skin?? amazon sells silicone phone cases for around 2 bucks. but appletards will no doubt be buying them in droves.

RE: In the land of the NSA and PRISM
By half_duplex on 9/10/2013 2:52:10 PM , Rating: 2
Well, to be fair, a retail case for my HTC One is about as high as Apple, and I'm guessing Samsung is the same.

Anyone who pays >$15 for a piece of plastic is an idiot, regardless of phone type.

By BSMonitor on 9/10/2013 2:53:46 PM , Rating: 2
Truth, buy them from the guys on ebay from Hong Kong for 50 cents!! All my phone gear comes from those crazy kids!

RE: In the land of the NSA and PRISM
By EasyC on 9/10/2013 2:25:52 PM , Rating: 2
Or that Apple will keep that claim.

I can see it now...

Introducing the iPhone 6/iPad 5/iPad Mini 3! All with fingerprint scanners, and all sync together! Imagine the convenience of iCloud...

*yawn*. You'd be a fool to think Apple won't have access to the fingerprint data on the device. They can access just about everything else.

By BSMonitor on 9/10/2013 2:28:54 PM , Rating: 2
Guess someone should actually read the license agreement this time...

However your point on the iCloud is spot on.

16GB standard model? Still? When everything else ships with 32GB

RE: In the land of the NSA and PRISM
By Dug on 9/10/2013 2:50:12 PM , Rating: 2
Get your tin foil hat on dude.
Even if they have your fingerprint, wtf do you possibly think they will do with it? There's already buttloads of Androids with fingerprint scanners and fingerprint scanning apps.
Has anyone done anything with that info?

By troysavary on 9/11/2013 8:42:15 AM , Rating: 2
There are the same people who think Bill Gates is gonna be watching them masturbate to anime with the Xbox 1.

RE: In the land of the NSA and PRISM
By half_duplex on 9/10/2013 2:16:17 PM , Rating: 2
Yeah, I'm interested to see what they respond to these questions.

With the attitude towards surveillance lately, I think they are going to have a hard time selling a device that has the potential to give away their thumb print.

RE: In the land of the NSA and PRISM
By BrgMx5 on 9/10/2013 2:23:07 PM , Rating: 2
Nothing to bash here today, except the 5C price.

device that has the potential to give away their thumb print

As is clearly stated, fingerprint info is stored on the phone and encrypted.

RE: In the land of the NSA and PRISM
By retrospooty on 9/10/2013 2:30:48 PM , Rating: 2
"Nothing to bash here today, except the 5C price."

iPhone 5s with only 16GB ram?
Same low res low DPI screen?

IT's pretty much the exact same thing only faster + fingerprint scanner.

Bleh. Megayawner.

RE: In the land of the NSA and PRISM
By troysavary on 9/10/2013 2:45:37 PM , Rating: 2
16 GB of RAM? Were that true, it would be better than most PCs. Check again, that is the Flash storage, not the RAM.

RE: In the land of the NSA and PRISM
By retrospooty on 9/10/2013 2:50:29 PM , Rating: 2
Yes, I meant storage obviously. Way low.

RE: In the land of the NSA and PRISM
By BSMonitor on 9/10/2013 2:55:35 PM , Rating: 2
And in iTunes there actually IS a lot of content to fill up that 32GB if it were ever offered...


By flyingpants1 on 9/11/2013 1:18:09 AM , Rating: 2
Your posts are so funny. What do you mean, "if it were ever offered"? Why on earth would they not offer a 32GB version of the phone?

By BSMonitor on 9/10/2013 3:04:51 PM , Rating: 2
Dude we know....... Google fanboy.

By half_duplex on 9/10/2013 2:36:21 PM , Rating: 2
I understand that is what was said. I am only referring to the questions they will get... perception is reality and uninformed customers may see the thumb print a little too intrusive.

They need to make it clear that the thumb print is not mandatory IMO.

RE: In the land of the NSA and PRISM
By superflex on 9/10/2013 2:40:02 PM , Rating: 2
Or the Sheeple who would pay $39 for a Silicon case.
Groundbreaking stuff there AAPL.

Wall Street is not impressed.

RE: In the land of the NSA and PRISM
By Argon18 on 9/10/2013 9:20:56 PM , Rating: 2
Of course Wall Street is not impressed. One of the great visions of Steve Jobs was to keep Apple products only at the high end of the market, and not make bottom-dollar discount products for the broke teenagers. Now that Jobs is gone, notice how Apple is making all these cheap-o products that they never would have in the past. First the Mini iPad, now a discount plastic iPhone. Apple is changing from a maker of premium top-shelf products, into a lowest common denominator like walmart. Jobs is rolling in his grave.

By flyingpants1 on 9/11/2013 1:15:39 AM , Rating: 2
Can we stop with this nonsense already? The iPad mini is really the better size, and it competes with the N7. The new MBAs are phenomenal. The 5C is just a refresh of the cheaper models, it will allow lower pricing in rapidly growing markets such as Asia. People who want the premium stuff will still buy the flagship 5S.

There were 6 long years between the release of the iPod and the iPhone. The iPad took another 3 years, and that was just a bigger iPhone. Cook may have more tricks up his sleeve.

RE: In the land of the NSA and PRISM
By BSMonitor on 9/10/2013 2:20:11 PM , Rating: 2
LMAO, too bad stupidity isn't reality.

The fingerprint information is NOT stored anywhere but in the A7 itself. There is NO backup to iCloud or Apple Server..

Bum bum bum

RE: In the land of the NSA and PRISM
By superflex on 9/10/2013 2:42:48 PM , Rating: 1
NSA has full backdoor access to iPhone, Android and Blackberry
The NSA thanks you for supporting collection of sheeple fingerprints.
Bum, bum, bum

RE: In the land of the NSA and PRISM
By xti on 9/10/2013 2:57:28 PM , Rating: 2
they already had it. you thought that was a girl touching you at night? ha.

RE: In the land of the NSA and PRISM
By EasyC on 9/10/2013 2:45:25 PM , Rating: 2
Right, and location data is never collected and sent anywhere ;)

RE: In the land of the NSA and PRISM
By TheDoc9 on 9/10/2013 2:58:02 PM , Rating: 2
They might have access to your print, however I'm curious as to why that's a concern? In the US at least, you're print is taken when you get your drivers license.

I have no intention of buying it of course.

RE: In the land of the NSA and PRISM
By superflex on 9/10/2013 11:42:04 PM , Rating: 2
Never provided a fingerprint in 31 years of driving.

RE: In the land of the NSA and PRISM
By xti on 9/11/2013 12:02:55 PM , Rating: 2
how many glasses have you drank out of at your local bar?


LOL @ Fanboys
By half_duplex on 9/10/13, Rating: -1
RE: LOL @ Fanboys
By Motoman on 9/10/2013 2:49:54 PM , Rating: 1
If you don't think an SD slot is important, you're the fanboy. There's no possible excuse for that.

Anyway, Apple's new marketing catchphrase should now be "iPhone 5C - now in colors just as gay as you are!"

RE: LOL @ Fanboys
By BSMonitor on 9/10/13, Rating: -1
RE: LOL @ Fanboys
By kamiller422 on 9/10/2013 3:20:39 PM , Rating: 5
Me. I put over 32GB of my music collection on my phone so I can listen to my music in a quality higher than is streamed to me, is uninterrupted because data is not available and uses a fraction of power constantly accessing the network would require.

RE: LOL @ Fanboys
By Dug on 9/10/13, Rating: 0
RE: LOL @ Fanboys
By kamiller422 on 9/10/2013 5:23:38 PM , Rating: 3
Actually, the Note 2 does have a good DAC. It's a Wolfson.

Of course, delivering music via BT is another option. Yes, I use my phone to play music at home. I use a BT receiver to feed the audio system wired throughout the house. Music plays everywhere, and I can control it anywhere. Think different.

You don't listen to 32GB of music in one sitting, but you have immediate access to 32GB of music without the power penalty of network streaming.

RE: LOL @ Fanboys
By Brandon Hill on 9/10/2013 3:23:18 PM , Rating: 5
Carrier data limits called, bro ;)

RE: LOL @ Fanboys
By AMDftw on 9/10/2013 3:36:10 PM , Rating: 3
LOL apparently he is a retard and forgot about the data plans.

iPhone C-rap. Shttin' out the best crap Apple has to offer.

RE: LOL @ Fanboys
By Cheesew1z69 on 9/10/2013 3:39:41 PM , Rating: 1
He is just a retard, it's that simple...

RE: LOL @ Fanboys
By Motoman on 9/10/2013 3:26:54 PM , Rating: 2
Who owns SD cards?


Reality called bro. It wants out of the distortion field.

RE: LOL @ Fanboys
By Labotomizer on 9/10/2013 3:30:07 PM , Rating: 2
Not defending Apple, but in my opinion SD is a nice to have. I'd probably use it if my phone had it but 32GB local storage seems plenty for me. 16Gb was rough though.

RE: LOL @ Fanboys
By retrospooty on 9/10/2013 3:41:20 PM , Rating: 2
It would be OK without SD, but only 16gb as the starting point? That is really low for a supposed "high end" phone these days. It gets lower and lower end every year.

RE: LOL @ Fanboys
By Motoman on 9/10/2013 10:45:09 PM , Rating: 3
Why, under any circumstance, is it OK for a phone to not have a micro SD slot? For what possible reason would this basic feature be excused? Like...replaceable batteries for example?

There's not any possible justification for leaving such features out. They cause the manufacturer essentially no additional cost, and serve no purpose other than to deny the consumer of fundamental capabilities.

RE: LOL @ Fanboys
By retrospooty on 9/11/2013 8:13:25 AM , Rating: 2
It does take space and not everyone needs it. Obviously some do and it a great feature for them, but its not like everyone does. Honestly, I only use mine for backup anymore. Now that I no longer travel for work, I don't need the extra content. But the combo of no SD and only 16GB on the base model is really cheap.

RE: LOL @ Fanboys
By Kiffberet on 9/11/2013 8:36:15 AM , Rating: 1
For you it might be important - switching SD cards, with all that music and photos you keep, or living in the jungle where having no electricity means you can't recharge your phone.

For myself and millions of others, I don't need to swap memory cards, and I plug my phone in to charge at home, in the car and in the office.

Never been a problem.

RE: LOL @ Fanboys
By Cheesew1z69 on 9/11/2013 9:38:45 AM , Rating: 3
It's important for the millions that do use it, great that it's not important for you. But for others it is...

RE: LOL @ Fanboys
By Motoman on 9/11/2013 2:09:41 PM , Rating: 2
It's ridiculous to watch these people try to rationalize the lack of basic features on their iThings.

Because *having* the ability to backup anything from your phone, or have additional storage space, or easily copy stuff around from one devide to another would clearly be a BAD THING. Nope. Would never want to have that capability. /iTard

Likewise, *being able* to swap my cellphone battery would be a nightmare. I mean, just the thought of popping the cover off and replacing the battery is sheer insanity! I'm not a brain scientist! I don't want the ability to do that! Just force me to plug my phone in all the time. It's so much better. /iTard.

RE: LOL @ Fanboys
By kingmotley on 9/10/2013 10:59:19 PM , Rating: 2

Well not everyone. I know quite a few people who don't have and SD cards. I just so happen to be one of them. What would I need an SD card for exactly? I have a phone that can't use them, and a computer at work with no SD card reader. I do have some nice USB 3 drives though that transfer a lot faster than any SD card out there though.

That aside, have you actually seen the location of the SD card slot on the ones that have them? OMG, I had this talk with my boss the other day, as he was tearing apart his phone, removing the case, prying the back cover off his phone and so he could show me how awesome it was to have a phone with an SD card in it. Of course, then he went on to have problems with the SD card talking about how sometimes it has problems reading it so he has to take it all apart again, and reboot his phone to get it to work. The concept is nice, but after seeing it in action, I couldn't help but to laugh. It is a nice touch, if done right, but the Galaxy 4S does it all shades of wrong.

RE: LOL @ Fanboys
By elleehswon on 9/10/2013 3:55:38 PM , Rating: 2
How about capability?

i've booted my home PC off of my old rezound thanks to an sd card just to see if i could.(copied the live image over to the sdcard, did a little bit of terminal magic to get the boot loader working as it should)

powered on the pc with no hard disks, no ethernet connected.

it took a little while as smartphones are usb 2.0, but a few minutes later, bam, fedora 18 fired right up.


RE: LOL @ Fanboys
By ClownPuncher on 9/10/2013 8:04:14 PM , Rating: 1

Where are they??!!?
By BSMonitor on 9/10/13, Rating: -1
RE: Where are they??!!?
By BSMonitor on 9/10/13, Rating: -1
RE: Where are they??!!?
By half_duplex on 9/10/2013 2:48:51 PM , Rating: 2
LOL Yep...

And how easily you took their down votes... HAHA

RE: Where are they??!!?
By half_duplex on 9/10/13, Rating: -1
RE: Where are they??!!?
By KiwiTT on 9/10/13, Rating: 0
RE: Where are they??!!?
By kwrzesien on 9/10/2013 3:03:23 PM , Rating: 1
Apple will never put SD in their smartphones because of the use cases - it just isn't convenient and they lose control of quality. Even Google is moving away from SD, Cloud and other network access is the solution for this. What would make that the obvious choice is if AT&T and Verizon had *reasonable* plans.

RE: Where are they??!!?
By BSMonitor on 9/10/13, Rating: -1
RE: Where are they??!!?
By w8gaming on 9/11/2013 12:14:33 AM , Rating: 2
Google is moving away from SD is because if Google offer SD slots with their low low priced devices, they will put other vendors at a distinct disadvantage. It is a smart business move. Meanwhile Apple just being stubborn and continue to adopt "other vendors are not doing it right" mentality and refuse to acknowledge the demands for SD slots and stylus. What they don't realize is they are giving up that part of the market share willing and foolishly without a fight.

"Let's face it, we're not changing the world. We're building a product that helps people buy more crap - and watch porn." -- Seagate CEO Bill Watkins

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