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Hardware Apple Acknowledges iMac Freeze Issue
Wolfgang Hansson (Blog) - October 8, 2007 5:20 PM
Print 60 comment(s) - last by Domicinator.. on Oct 10 at 11:11 PM
Apple admits a problem is causing some iMac computers to freeze and require hard reboot

Apple launched updated iMac computers in August to lots of praise and fanfare. Recently some iMac owners tell Apple that their iMacs are freezing and require a hard reboot to resume normal operation.

AppleInsider reports that its iMac review unit from Apple operated as expected until the 1.1 update, and then began to experience the lockup issues reported by forum users. The problem appears to be related to the ATI Radeon HD graphics card and its required driver.

Apple has made no official statement on the cause of the freeze issue and has only stated that a repair for the issue is coming. AppleInsider also reports that some users of the new iMac  have been able to fix the freeze issue by simply uninstalling the graphics drivers and reinstalling drivers of a previous version.

The report states that fix did not work as expected, and many users on Apple's official support forums also met the driver-swap procedure with mixed results.

Owners of affected units sometimes say they can initiate the freeze issue by launching a game or other application that taxes the graphics hardware.

Other users tell DailyTech the issue is random and doesn’t require a graphically intensive application to freeze the system. Some also sstate that when their system locks up, they can still move the mouse pointer and activate the num lock key, but they are unable to click any programs.

Neither ATI nor Apple responded to DailyTech for comment on the freeze-ups.

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Poetic Justice
By TomZ on 10/8/2007 5:41:57 PM , Rating: 4
A great dose of poetic justice for Apple, who had only recently been running the Apple and PC Guy ads where the PC freezes up and needs to be rebooted. I guess they won't be running that ad again any time soon!

Arrogance shall be rewarded - what goes around comes around.




RE: Poetic Justice
By Treckin on 10/8/2007 5:47:10 PM , Rating: 2
Oh man, Microsoft should come out with some parody adds... That would be classic...


RE: Poetic Justice
By Gul Westfale on 10/8/2007 5:53:12 PM , Rating: 3
this is not a problem. it's a feature!


RE: Poetic Justice
By masher2 (blog) on 10/8/2007 11:12:24 PM , Rating: 2
Think Ellen Feiss is available?


RE: Poetic Justice
By Samus on 10/9/2007 6:43:35 AM , Rating: 2
Unfortunately masher, I might be the only one that got that. But I agree, Microsoft could twist this around with a huge hit in the tech community if they could intrigue Miss Feiss into some poetic justice.

Maybe offer her an ounce of dank as icing on the cake?


RE: Poetic Justice
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 10/9/2007 8:09:44 AM , Rating: 2
Ah, Ellen Feiss..... in my younger years... I doubt she would be willing to do it though. Maybe keep her off the benadryl this time eh?


RE: Poetic Justice
By theapparition on 10/9/2007 11:42:29 AM , Rating: 2
+1 for the most cryptic reference ever at Daily Tech.


RE: Poetic Justice
By wordsworm on 10/9/07, Rating: -1
RE: Poetic Justice
By Misty Dingos on 10/8/2007 6:40:40 PM , Rating: 3
For some reason I am going to be a little happier tomorrow.

People will say. "Why are you so happy?"
And I will reply. "Because apparently there is some universal yin and yang thing. Apple has been throwing around lots of yin and now they are going to get some yang."


RE: Poetic Justice
By daftrok on 10/8/07, Rating: -1
RE: Poetic Justice
By MonkeyPaw on 10/8/2007 6:58:38 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
I guess they won't be running that ad again any time soon!


You must be thinking of a different Apple than I am. Problems aren't atypical of new Apple product launches. If I remember right, the original monolithic iMac had HDD issues, MacBookPros had hit-and-miss thermal/noise problems, the black MacBooks had flakey paint, the original Nano scratched easily, and so on. In other words, Apple isn't immune to build quality problems, but regardless they still brag of their superiority over PCs. This sort of issue is beyond the average buyer, so Apple will be fine as long as they continue to promote their image.


RE: Poetic Justice
By Oregonian2 on 10/8/2007 8:53:00 PM , Rating: 2
Yes, my late father had switched from Mac to PC because of all the reboots with the Mac.


RE: Poetic Justice
By audiomaniaca on 10/9/2007 3:39:27 PM , Rating: 2
So did I, almost 10 years ago. Was tired of 'cute' but non-functional machines. Today I can say I'm 110% happy with Vista.

Btw, my iPhone hangs all the time.


RE: Poetic Justice
By Oregonian2 on 10/8/2007 8:55:30 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I guess they won't be running that ad again any time soon!


You have it backwards. They'll run it five times as many times now. Running the ad erases reality and creates the conception that it's the PC not the Mac that freezes up. If you hear about the Mac once in newscasts and see the ad ten times, which sticks more? You got it!

Prepare for an onslaught of that ad!


RE: Poetic Justice
By B on 10/8/2007 10:24:17 PM , Rating: 3
But I thought, "It just works." I personally cannot stand that tagline and think it is a copout for those that cannot articulate themselves.


RE: Poetic Justice
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 10/9/2007 8:11:56 AM , Rating: 2
It's borderline false advertisement these days, and the Car Companies are doing similar.


RE: Poetic Justice
By Beavermatic on 10/9/2007 8:24:50 AM , Rating: 2
"What goes around, goes around, goes around
Comes all the way back around
What goes around, goes around, goes around
Comes all the way back around
What goes around, goes around, goes around
Comes all the way back around
What goes around, goes around, goes around
Comes all the way back around.."

:P


RE: Poetic Justice
By bhieb on 10/9/2007 9:14:55 AM , Rating: 3
Aw reminds me of a great apple parody.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-611856238...

I'm sure 99% of you already saw this, but it still makes me smile.


RE: Poetic Justice
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 10/9/2007 9:22:14 AM , Rating: 2
Too bad its blocked here at work >.< what's that one about? I have to wait until after 5 =/


RE: Poetic Justice
By bhieb on 10/9/2007 9:35:37 AM , Rating: 2
It is the one that is a parody of the old mac commericals. This angry guy talking about how he is in production and they make him use one. Points out the handle on the back makes a good place to tie a chain to and use it for a boat anchor.


RE: Poetic Justice
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 10/9/2007 9:39:03 AM , Rating: 2
Haven't seen that one before but sounds like a riot.


RE: Poetic Justice
By Rugar on 10/9/2007 9:57:30 AM , Rating: 2
One of my favorites... How can you go wrong with a parody that ends:

"Mac killed my inner child."


RE: Poetic Justice
By bhieb on 10/9/2007 10:04:26 AM , Rating: 3
The best line

quote:
"...using a mac is different than a PC. It is not so much operating a computer as it is sort of tricking it into what you want it to do..."


RE: Poetic Justice
By TomZ on 10/9/2007 10:32:05 AM , Rating: 3
LOL, it sounds like you're describing marriage to me.

(Kidding)


But..
By JeffDoesNotCompute on 10/8/2007 7:02:46 PM , Rating: 1
Apple does deserve this for the commercials. This coming from a Mac user. Actually, I use both PCs and Macs (I'm a student and a gamer, mac=work, pc=play). Only thing I don't agree with here is the constant assertion by posters that this is what mac users deserve. As far as I know, I had nothing to do with the Mac vs. PC commercials. Sure, some of them are humorous just because the actors are comedians, but have I ever truly agreed with the comments? No. Did anyone ever ask me if I wanted to go out and buy an iPod after seeing silhouettes dancing on my TV? No.
Nothing, nothing, nothing is perfect. No electronic, no matter how simple, works right 100% of the time. And, for the sake of sanity, don't post a "100%" perfect electronic on here, because you know there's no such thing. Fact of the matter is, Apple deserves a little flak for this, and for a lot of other things. Just like Microsoft, just like Nintendo, just like Sony, just like Samsung, etc. etc. No company is perfect, no computer is perfect, no "cuisine truly reigns supreme" for all eternity. All things have flaws, that's just part of life. I have had many, many glitches with my Mac, most of which required restarting, or running permissions tests. My PC requires reboots and defrags and virus scans as well. My Wii freezes on Virtual Console games every once in a while. My TiVo ignores Family Guy every once in a while. My iPod occasionally craps out. My car needed a fan belt replaced last week. My air conditioner blew out a coolant ring. My television had to have its bulb replaced. The list could go on.
What I am trying to say is that stuff breaks and nothing, not even self-righteous Apple is exempt. But when people flaunt these mistakes as a product of the user's ignorance or cockiness that seems a bit excessive. Fanboyism is probably the most cruel and ridiculous new phase of internet communities, and its sick. People get so worked up about the things they love that, God forbid, should someone else like something they don't like, they are immediately stupid and wrong. I am sure very, very few people would be so blatantly rude to someone else's face.
I have never responded on Dailytech before. I usually just read, smile at the flames, and walk away. I've laughed quite a bit at the sarcasm, and my heart goes out to the poor souls who try to mediate and end up getting flamed as well. Its unfortunate that our online communities have degraded into derogatory commentary and pedantic nonsense. Why can't someone just use a Mac because they like it? Do they have to be an iSheep? Why is buying computer parts off of Newegg some kind of "rite of passage," whereas buying one premade is considered lame? I think everyone should be entitled to buy what they want, how they want, and when they want, without having to endure endless torrents of fanboyism from people who can't stand to have people not think just like them. I guess I just don't get it. If its fun to cruelly attack other people with messages on the internet, then things have changed a lot since I was a kid.
Oh, and I own an iPhone. Love it to death. Sure, it has problems, but what doesn't? My marriage has problems, but I don't judge it based on the negative aspects. If I did, then I would be divorced, fat, lazy and wallowing in the corner, waiting for the end of the world. Take the good with the bad, respect the opinions and desires of others, and, most of all, enjoy something because YOU enjoy it, not because it makes you feel better to flame everyone else down. If the only reason you do something is so that you can ridicule others, then you need to reconsider the direction your life is headed. Eventually, whether you want it to or not, the type of person you act as online will bleed over into your real life, and no one wants to hang out with that.
Why sit here and debate about Macs vs. PCs or XBOX vs. PS3 vs. Wii, when we can all just buy the one which catches our eye and enjoy it? Does it really hurt you that I wrote this message on a mac? If I had written it in a custom-made PC, would I be more readily accepted? Does the type of computer I purchase necessarily define the kind of person I am? If it does, then we, as a society, need to redefine our conceptions of character and self-worth.
Thanks for reading.




RE: But..
By JeffDoesNotCompute on 10/8/2007 7:15:04 PM , Rating: 2
To add to this: Has anyone stopped to consider how sad those people who spent all of that money on a new iMac must be because their computers are messed up? Whether or not it was a sound purchase shouldn't be debated, but we, as avid connoisseurs of electronics, should have sympathy for those who can't get a quick fix for a problem. I know I have been there many times, just as others have. THIS is what being an online community is about; not about flaming people for their problems, but for helping them get through them. What if that person had been saving up for years to buy that kind of computer? If it was you, with whatever thing it is that you wanted, you know you would be heartbroken.


RE: But..
By Quiksel on 10/8/2007 7:29:01 PM , Rating: 2
To you, sir, I tip my hat... *tips hat*

I do have one of these new iMacs, and haven't had any issues... I dunno how this is news, but you are correct in your assertion that while every product has issues, the media loves to report on Apple, while the tech sites love to make it a worthwhile bashfest. It's a shame, really.

The entire debacle is silly. I love my macs, not because they are cool, but because I love OS X. Can't do my work without it. Yet I'm an iSheep because of it. Is it fair? Nah, not fair... certainly judging my savvy-ness based on this alone is premature at best!

All you Apple-haters, take note: I love my Mac, but I'm not an idiot, either. Take a user for what he's worth, not by what he buys.

~q


RE: But..
By Felofasofa on 10/9/2007 5:08:19 AM , Rating: 4
The reason we all get pissed off at Apple is the holier than thou, self-righteous, we're superior attitude they steadfastly maintain whilst doing all the platform flip-flops and asking their own users to bend over and take it. I believe Apple/Jobs cast the first stones in this war, perpetually putting down Gates and Intel and insulting the entire Wintel world. We're merely responding to the garbage from the Apple world.


RE: But..
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 10/9/2007 8:33:29 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Has anyone stopped to consider how sad those people who spent all of that money on a new iMac must be because their computers are messed up?

Yes. The phrase buyer beware comes to mind.

quote:
Whether or not it was a sound purchase shouldn't be debated, but we, as avid connoisseurs of electronics, should have sympathy for those who can't get a quick fix for a problem.

No, I prefer to kick back and watch the show. Educated consumers are Apple's worst enemy. Then again uneducated ones with lawyers can be too. (See iPhone and iPod)

quote:
know I have been there many times, just as others have.

We all have, just most of us were intelligent enough to figure it out ourselves because we built our own systems and know what went into it. Or for those without the time, bought one they knew they could troubleshoot if the need arose.

quote:
THIS is what being an online community is about; not about flaming people for their problems, but for helping them get through them.

Yes and No. This is very much an open subject. We flame Apple for their false advertising ("It just works"). We also get some amusement over the many Apple users who bought into that lie and are now stuck with the reality and consequences. The false belief that Apple's are somehow superior and posess none of the problems found in other computer systems is laughable. The only thing I can say to these people is, get a PC, get a copy of Windows, and join the rest of the world. Resistance is futile.

quote:
What if that person had been saving up for years to buy that kind of computer? If it was you, with whatever thing it is that you wanted, you know you would be heartbroken.

Life is hard, and this serves as a lesson to the uninformed users, buyer beware, and ask the advice of your local IT professional before deciding to buy a mac. Most respectable It professionals will point you to the Windows box every time (Although I have made an exception or two and told them to go with a Mac on a case by case basis over the years).

The best advice for them right now is sit back and wait while Apple and ATI get together and figure out who's problem it is and release a patch for it.


RE: But..
By JeffDoesNotCompute on 10/9/2007 11:11:13 AM , Rating: 2
I was waiting for you to show up (or at least someone like you) to pick apart my post. Thanks for confirming that which I wanted to know. I just got 5$ from one of my flat-mates. Bottom line for me: Apple is no more guilty of the holier than thou- principle than just about any other company out there. Problem is, up until the past year, it hasn't really bit Apple like it has other companies (read: I'll give you 1,200 dollars if you can find a PS3 on the shelves for more than an hour). I've never apologized for Apple's mistakes, which are many. (I was burned by the 200$ drop on the iPhone, didn't see that one coming). The "buyer beware" motto is such BS, and you know it. I'm not going to go see a palm-reader to see if I can buy a computer or a phone, and I am sure you don't look into the future to see what's good to buy. If I could I would have bought stock in Nintendo last year, Apple 7 years ago, and Microsoft 30 years ago. You never REALLY know what you are getting into, until you get into it. I'm sure all the buyers were thinking..."I wonder if this mac will freeze when I use it?" Probably not. Sure, you take a risk, but do they deserve flak for it?

Oh, and, for the record, my PC is a custom-piece my flat-mate and I split. So don't assume I don't know how cheap and troubleshoot-able a custom rig is. Just readapted my RAID 0 last week (don't get me started). Whether or not you (or anyone else agrees), flaming and fanboyism is sick and has to stop. Ok, officially backing out, about to get sucked into this crap more than I want to. Take care, guys, I'll keep reading and smiling.


RE: But..
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 10/10/2007 7:45:32 AM , Rating: 2
Always glad to be of service.

I agree with the majority of your post but will respond to some select portions that stand out.

quote:
I'm sure all the buyers were thinking..."I wonder if this mac will freeze

Mac has long marketed itself as not suffering from the common bugs inherent to electronics (Freezes, Crashes, etc..) when they do just like any other piece of electronic. Most of us find the irony of them finally getting caught in a lie quite appealing.

quote:
Just readapted my RAID 0 last week (don't get me started).

Been there a few weeks ago when I wanted to change the size of my Raid 1 Disks, welcome to musical hard disks to get that thing the way you want it. Best suggestion for Raid thus far... Once you set it up, leave it the hell alone or suffer the consequences =/

quote:
Whether or not you (or anyone else agrees), flaming and fanboyism is sick and has to stop.

I dunno, some of the Sony threads have been a source of hours of amusement for me. The level of hate is phenominal.


RE: But..
By dare2savefreedom on 10/9/2007 1:08:41 AM , Rating: 3
no thanks, your sad devotion to your religion hasn't brought you freedom and your evil friend apple just patented something.

what sayest thou now?

uFreeze?


RE: But..
By dare2savefreedom on 10/9/2007 1:15:16 AM , Rating: 2
if iMac iFreeze...

RMS doesn't like crapple and that's good enough for me.

iWont blow iLot of iSmoke up your long winded crying baby iDefense but...

iReality from iSOhunt:

Firefox
Sep 18, 2007 - Sep 24, 2007 45.84%
Sep 25, 2007 - Oct 1, 2007 46.19%

Internet Explorer
Sep 18, 2007 - Sep 24, 2007 46.42%
Sep 25, 2007 - Oct 1, 2007 46.07%

Opera
Sep 18, 2007 - Sep 24, 2007 3.89%
Sep 25, 2007 - Oct 1, 2007 3.79%

Safari
Sep 18, 2007 - Sep 24, 2007 2.82%
Sep 25, 2007 - Oct 1, 2007 2.91%

There's probably iTruckLoad of problems with mUcs but since all of 3 people in the world have them we'll never really find them.


RE: But..
By JeffDoesNotCompute on 10/9/07, Rating: 0
RE: But..
By psyph3r on 10/9/2007 7:11:06 AM , Rating: 1
i think you failed at whatever you were trying to say. He said that macs do not have a large enough user base to see how much is really wrong with their computers and we'll never hear from them. PC's, there are millions and millions and millions of them. You see the real MTBF on that kind of scale

and when did religion get into this ? wtf?


RE: But..
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 10/9/2007 8:17:44 AM , Rating: 2
The fanatacism displayed by the fanboys of apple has been attributed to somewhat of a religious following or cult. They are deeply devoted and will defend it vigorously. Then theres the holier than thou attitude and false belief of superiority they also display. Thus following "Apple" or in most cases "Steve Jobs" is more along the lines of a religion without logical thought or reason behind it.


It DOES serve Apple right.........
By Domicinator on 10/8/2007 9:19:51 PM , Rating: 2
The whole thing about Macs never crashing and never having any problems was created by Apple, and they just perpetuated the myth with those stupid commercials. But I'll never take their commercials seriously, since they constantly try to convince me that my web browsing and picture editing experience would be SO much better if I did it on a Mac. Puh-lease.

But some of the myths do catch on, and some consumers out there do fall for it. Case in point--I was at my wife's 10 year class reunion the other day, and met the husband of one of her old friends. He was kind of a meat head, but a nice guy. He actually told me that because he has a Mac, he can create his own DVDs, edit his own playlists, burn his own CD's, etc. When I told him that I can do all that on a PC too, he actually didn't even believe me. He said, "But can you drag and drop the file you want to make into a DVD and then just burn it?" I didn't even bother getting annoyed, because he really just had no clue at all.

It just goes to show you that "non-computer people" really don't know what they have or what it can and cannot do, so whatever commercial sticks out in their head is what they're going to buy. The Mac commercials are very creative and sometimes funny, but often complete lies. But since they are presented in a unique way, people just fall for it hook line and sinker. Therefore you have people in the world who think only Macs are able to burn DVDs and only iPods are able to play MP3s.

The fact of the matter is that Macs DO crash, they DO have problems sometimes, and they are NOT infallible. Any somewhat intelligent Mac user will tell you that. But the Mac owning non computer people seem to be even less of computer people than the PC owning non computer people, and in fact often can't even tell you what the difference is between a Mac and a PC. THOSE are the people Apple tries to exploit, and it works. And THOSE people are never going to get on DailyTech and read articles about Macs having problems, because they're too busy messing around with their DRM loaded iTunes and thinking they have something over on everyone else because they have an iPod.

I never know whether to be angry at those kind of people or pity them. I personally don't care what kind of computer people buy as long as it does what they need it to do, but if you're going to tell me that a Mac is better than a PC because on a Mac you can burn DVDs, I'm going to have a really hard time listening to anything else you try to discuss with me about computers and probably will try to change the subject as quickly as possible before I rip off your arm and club you to death with it.




RE: It DOES serve Apple right.........
By JeffDoesNotCompute on 10/8/07, Rating: 0
By Domicinator on 10/10/2007 11:11:07 PM , Rating: 2
Wow, fanboy much?

FYI, my gaming rig is housed in a beautiful brushed aluminum case that would put any Mac to shame. My PC looks damn sexy if I do say so myself. No tan boxes here.

Second of all, I'm sorry, but it sounds like you've definitely had too much of the Mac Kool Aid. Just because Apple products have curvy lines and smooth surfaces does not make me want to buy one.

I will never jump on board with Apple. It's funny how just today I was at a company that was on a Mac based network, and I was talking to a few of my customers. 3 of the 4 people I was talking to were having problems with their G4 laptops crashing, not booting up, locking, losing network connections while just sitting there, etc. And I didn't bring it up. We were just having a conversation and they all started whining about it.

Sorry guys. Macs aren't any more reliable than anything else. Say what you want, but it's simply just not true.


By BikeDude on 10/9/2007 1:36:44 AM , Rating: 1
Actually, if there is any statistics on this, I bet they would show that Macs crash less than PCs.

It is my belief that the average PC is a no-brand box using sub-par components. Sure, if you spend as much as you would on a Mac, it would be very similar (if not identical). Most people however, pay less.

When I return a stick of memory because it fails a single test in memtest86 -- do any of you want to speculate where that stick ends up? I would not be surprised if it is shifted off to the next customer; Someone unsuspecting, who will happily live with random reboots every now and then, (unfairly) blaming MS for a crappy OS...

Which brings the next favorable item in Apple's defense. They control most of the device drivers! Windows "enjoys" a lot of hardware support, but most driver developers are on a buzz or just plain incompetent. Yet they are allowed to play around in kernel mode. (*cough*Creative*cough*Labs*cough*)

MS realises this and have started moving more driver stuff to user mode, to shield us, the unsuspecting public, from hapless driver developers who believe that "it compiles with only a few warnings, so it must work".

As for myself, I bought a 15.4" MacBook Pro last week and installed 64-bit Vista right away. One foot in each camp so to speak. :P (nah, I am really a Windows fanboy, my rigs usually run extremely stable and most crashes over the years have been attributed to Creative Labs devices and poorly implemented copyprotections which also invade kernel mode these days)


PC vs Mac...
By daftrok on 10/8/2007 6:07:25 PM , Rating: 3
PC: Hi, I'm a PC.
Mac: And i'm a Mac.
PC: Hey, Mac I heard the new iMacs came out, looking pretty sharp.
Mac: Well what with the iPhone's design, we wanted to emulate that on our desktops as well.
PC: Makes sense. I also heard they're even faster Did you upgrade your video cards to the 8600 GTs or were you guys able to step it up a notch and pack in an 8800?
Mac: Oh, we put...radeons...(looks down)
(silence)
(show a PC)
PC (background):...You did what?




RE: PC vs Mac...
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 10/8/2007 6:17:16 PM , Rating: 1
Exactly. Those snide remarks and PC bashing bit them in the arse this time.


Isn't This More ATI/AMD's Problem
By mmntech on 10/9/2007 10:19:15 AM , Rating: 2
If the graphics system is freezing and can be fixed with a simple driver roll back, isn't this just a driver issue? Wouldn't be the first time a bad driver got out there. The latest nVidia ones on my PC have been giving me a hard time, and they are official WHQL drivers. Apple doesn't produce the drivers for the graphics cards, ATI/AMD does. Isn't it more their problem?




By thilanliyan on 10/9/2007 4:08:14 PM , Rating: 2
Apple users don't know HOW to do a driver roll back...that's why they have to wait for Apple to put out a fix. Hehehe, j/k...I'm sure they know how...I don't know how to do it on a MAC though.


By vortmax on 10/9/2007 12:20:44 PM , Rating: 2
Sounds like Apple released the 1.1 update to brick all the hacked iMacs...LOL




Why is anyone surprised
By ChipDude on 10/9/2007 12:12:01 AM , Rating: 1
Apple goes exclusive with INTEL cpus, and what causes a problem? Is it the ATI or the AMD chip that is causing them problems?




This IS news
By linuxguru88 on 10/8/07, Rating: -1
RE: This IS news
By danz32 on 10/8/2007 6:57:42 PM , Rating: 5
Where do I start?

Apple gets press coverage for anything they say or do! So when something good happens there are 1000s of articles about it, or when something bad happens, of course there will be coverage

There are alot more PC companies (i.e., more than one) so issues like this probaly won't get alot of press unless they are really widespread.

Also, Apple usually denies issues and deletes forum posts about it. Like the mooing from Macbooks, and I'm sure there are others. It is a good change of pace that they are actually being so public about it this time, cause they aren't all the time.

Finally, in typical fanboi fashion, have to throw in the Microsoft insult. Vista is a great operating system, and they do release weekly/monthly updates for it. SP1 is going to be a welcomed improvement, because no software is ever perfect, even Macos


RE: This IS news
By Donkeyshins on 10/8/2007 7:04:57 PM , Rating: 2
So which is it? Do Windows PCs suck because they never fix issues, or because they have Service Packs? Last I checked, there have been four little kitties between OS-X (Cheetah) and the version (Leopard) that is releasing later this month (Puma, Jaguar, Panther, Tiger). Sounds like service packs to me. Make up your mind, please.

I think people's glee at the Mac freeze issue relate more to the overly-smug PC v. Mac ads and how Apple claimed that their systems never froze. To be fair, most up-to-date (patched) versions of XP, Vista and Server 2003 rarely if ever freeze.

SP1 is coming out in Q1 CY08, FWIW.


RE: This IS news
By BikeDude on 10/9/2007 4:24:47 AM , Rating: 1
When did you last see a Windows installation "freeze" due to a bug with Windows?

I have used NT since 1993. I do not recall ever having had that happen, unless when dealing with a dodgy third-party driver.

My latest incident was actually a couple of weeks ago. Installed the latest forceware driver, loaded up a Simpsons DVD (season 10 I think), and halfway through, everything went black and the thing had frozen solid. No BSOD, no nothing.

I returned to the previous nVidia driver and all was well.

But... I can't blame Windows for that. I can blame nVidia for dodgy driver design, but it wasn't the OS' fault!

In short: Windows seldom (if ever) freeze. Device drivers do. Dodgy hardware devices do.


RE: This IS news
By ancient46 on 10/9/2007 10:41:46 AM , Rating: 2
I paid nothing for XP's service packs and monthly updates, only the cost of the original program. Any MAC user want to tell us how much it cost them to upgrade their OS from X to Tiger ?


RE: This IS news
By TomZ on 10/8/2007 8:50:07 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
At least Apple actually fixes issues.

From the article, Apple tried to fix it, but they were unable to. Sounds like they're still trying to figure it out. Maybe you could offer to help them. :o)


RE: This IS news
By WackyDan on 10/9/2007 12:54:48 AM , Rating: 2
Yes... Apple fixes isues like any other vendor... Because even they have to.

Like it or not this is news... on top of lots of apple news, and not all of it good.

As for your SP1 jab..... If you compare OS X's release to that of Vista, and count the fixes, and specifically the security fixes in the the same amount of time since release for both OSes.... Guess what you will find?

Vista has had less fixes and security flaws published and in need of fix than OS X.... But something close to a 3 to 1 margin. Like Vista or not... call it a resource pig, call it what XP should have been and so forth.... MS did get a lot right before kicking it out the door, and deserve credit.

You want to throw bash fanboy statements around, feel free... but I suggest you check you facts first.


RE: This IS news
By AraH on 10/9/2007 8:02:48 AM , Rating: 2
i definitely agree with what you said about apple security updates... used to volunteer for my school's IT department (more like forced volunteering, but that's not the issue) and most of the work we did was "go to lab xyz and update the iMacs"... and guess what... unlike the windows servers which had their own internal update server to save bandwidth, the iMacs didn't... so imagine what a hell it was to update those things... usually got 4-5 done at most per week whereas we NEVER had to update the windows computers...

and no MATTER how many updates the windows computers had (even if it were 100 times the imacs), we never had to update the computers... and don't tell me it's because the school didn't set up an update mechanism for the iMacs, they specifically had an iMac server in conjunction to the PC server


RE: This IS news
By AraH on 10/9/2007 8:07:11 AM , Rating: 2
oh yeah, and i could freeze the dock whenever i wanted to, just needed to pass the mouse over it a few times at high speed (done this on at least 5 macs) and it would freeze. i'd love to see you freeze something in windows in as simple a manner as that


CRASH
By Dug on 10/8/07, Rating: -1
RE: CRASH
By wordsworm on 10/9/2007 6:49:56 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Funny how a small number of users get a crash on a Mac and all the Windows fanboys come out of the woodwork.

Good point. I don't think it's news that Windows crash. That's just a part of the territory.

Just out of curiosity... I find my Vista is crashing more than XP. Is this something that others have found as well?

word!


RE: CRASH
By TomZ on 10/9/2007 10:35:05 AM , Rating: 2
No, I haven't found that to be the case. When I used XP, it didn't crash very often, but I think that Vista is crashing less for me. I think I've had 1-2 stop exceptions total due to a driver problem across a half dozen machines over the past year. No other issues that I can recall.


RE: CRASH
By Locutus465 on 10/9/2007 11:08:04 AM , Rating: 2
I've never had Vista crash on me that wasn't related to unsuccessfull over clocking attempts (this would be my fault). I'm not saying that the Vista experience is perfect, I'm having nVidia platform driver issues right now, but Windows can't be blamed for that. Also I'm guessing the new search indexing service is a touch agressive considering how bad it can tie up the HD.... But over all the Vista experinence has been good.


RE: CRASH
By audiomaniaca on 10/9/2007 3:54:30 PM , Rating: 2
No, you're an unlucky one.

My Vista NEVER crashes. My iPhone hangs it many times a day, though.

Advice for everyone saying that "my vista is crashing":

1.Buy a decent machine (Sony, Toshiba, Dell, Gateway, HP, etc)
2. Do not install or upgrade Vista in old computers running XP. Do not install Vista (it doesn't work).
3. Buy the computer with Vista already installed.


"If you look at the last five years, if you look at what major innovations have occurred in computing technology, every single one of them came from AMD. Not a single innovation came from Intel." -- AMD CEO Hector Ruiz in 2007



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