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  (Source: Projectionist)

  (Source: Limited Edition)
Did Apple trick customers to force upgrades?

Apple received national criticism in 2007 when it "bricked" unlocked iPhones via an OS update, rendering the phones useless.  That move led to multiple lawsuits and a firestorm of negative publicity.

Now Apple has been accused of a different kind of bricking.  According to a suit filed in Superior Court in San Diego this time around Apple used an OS update not to render useless just unlocked iPhones, but locked and unlocked models alike in a bid to force users of older iPhone models to upgrade.

The suit stems from the fact that the iOS 4 upgrade leaves the iPhone 3G unresponsive and hard to use.  Despite the fact that this phenomena appears almost universal, Apple urged unwitting iPhone 3G users to upgrade to the new operating system.

States the complaint, "The true fact of the matter, as verifiable by information technology experts, is that the iOS 4 is a substantial 'downgrade' for earlier iPhone devices and renders many of them virtually useless 'iBricks'.  Nonetheless, in reasonable and detrimental reliance upon Apple's false representations, false statements and false claims of full compatibility, thousands upon thousands of iPhone 3 users were intentionally misled into installing iOS 4 on their devices."

The suit notes that Apple provides users with no means to perform a re-install of an earlier operating system version.  Apple's promotion of iOS 4 to iPhone 3G users when it likely knew that it would render their phones useless and that they would be unable to restore their phones, was likely a scheme to force users of older models to upgrade.

The lawsuit was filed on behalf of plaintiff Bianca Wofford, a iPhone 3G owner and is seeking class action status.  Ms. Wofford recalls that after installing iOS 4, as suggested by iTunes, that her iPhone 3G's performance greatly suffered.  She states, "While not completely disabled, the operability of the device was significantly degraded and the device was no longer reliable."

DailyTech reported on this issue with older iPhones back when iOS 4 launched.  iPhone 3GS models also reportedly suffered a performance hit, though not as big a one.  Apple's forums are filled with a deluge of complaints about the poor performance of iOS 4 on older model phones.

Ms. Wofford is seeking for Apple to reimburse every plaintiff in the class the cost of their phone, plus $5,000 in additional damages.

Apple would not comment to us on this lawsuit, and their standard policy is not to comment on lawsuits (which they've had more than a few of).






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Don't repeal the best tax
By The Raven on 11/5/10, Rating: 0
RE: Don't repeal the best tax
By xti on 11/5/10, Rating: -1
RE: Don't repeal the best tax
By The Raven on 11/5/2010 11:30:50 AM , Rating: 4
To be honest, I am bashing someone who bought an Apple product and by extension the Church of Jobs.

This illustrates a typical difference between typical Apple devotees and "the rest of us" (which includes some Apple customers BTW). The rest of us just switch products when it turns out we bought an inferior product. Apple users try their best to make it seem that they never made a mistake in following the herd in the first place.


RE: Don't repeal the best tax
By melgross on 11/5/10, Rating: 0
RE: Don't repeal the best tax
By Luticus on 11/5/2010 12:37:00 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
That's really silly. First of all, Apple hasn't stopped supporting the 3G. I had one until recently, when my family upgraded to the 4. While it's true that certain functions slowed down with OS 4, others didn't. Then Apple came out with 4.1 which speeded up most of the slowed down functions. It's not as fast as a 3GS, and not nearly as fast as the 4, but considering it has much less RAM, a slower cpu, and slower gpu, it does fine.

While it pains me to do this, i have to agree with you. I also think this is silly. If people upgrade it's their own fault. However, I am of the opinion that apple should give users a way to "roll back" to the prior OS if they so choose. Don't send out an update (specifically one as big as a completely new OS) if you aren't going to give users a way to undo it.


RE: Don't repeal the best tax
By wallijonn on 11/5/2010 1:05:13 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
If people upgrade it's their own fault.


Mark my words: There will come a day when updates will occur automatically and cannot be turned off - which will probably degrade performance.

Take for example Sony's PS3. If you don't update to firmware 3.5, which no longer will allow the installation of Linux, and you insert the movie "Predators," it will tell you that the license has expired and that you will need to update. Once you update former functionality will be gone. And, unlike in times past when the update was included on the BD movie disc, one now has to manually update the firmware via the Internet or a disc.

So all Apple has to do is to force the expiration of some license on the iPhone and you will be forced to upgrade.


RE: Don't repeal the best tax
By The Raven on 11/5/2010 3:12:00 PM , Rating: 3
I'm pretty sure Apple already did this with some of the first upgrades (pre-3GS). My buddy had a bunch of unauthorized apps on his phone and when he hooked it up to his MacBook to sync music or pictures it forced him to do the update in order to sync with iTunes and wiped out all of those apps. Degrade performance? Yup, that's what it did. Afterwards he could not reinstall them either. From what I remember it was Apple's move to get unauthorized apps off of the phones. I don't remember all of the details. Maybe someone can straighten me out on this as it was some time ago.

But I know that it was a forced update (if you wanted to connect your phone to your PC anyway, which is pretty basic functionality since the thing doesn't have a card slot).


RE: Don't repeal the best tax
By The Raven on 11/5/2010 2:59:51 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
If people upgrade it's their own fault.

While I completely disagree with the dullard that you are agreeing with, this is exactly what I am saying. (and BTW, your comment make it look like you think MY comment is silly when I gather you are saying that the suit is silly. Which is what I am saying). This suit is poppycock. If you think that Apple did something wrong here, then don't buy their "new and improved" replacement. These people need to learn to live with the choices they made like the rest of us. And if Apple IS doing this on purpose, then those are the dice that they decide to roll and they can expect a loss of trust and less sales in the future. But there is no need for this suit and these people need to get over themselves and stop playing the victim.


RE: Don't repeal the best tax
By False Profit on 11/9/2010 8:54:21 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
If people upgrade it's their own fault.


This is one of the most ridiculous statements I have ever read... If a company provides a software update for their product, it is not the user's responsibility to insure the quality of said update.

If Apple is trapping users into a situation where they lose functionality of their current devices (i.e. providing an update and no way to roll back), I hope this lawsuit does succeed. Not because I own any Apple products (I don't), and not because I hate Apple (I like most of their products, just not the prices :-P), but because of the irresponsible control this would give corporations over consumers.

All of us have at least ten's of electronic devices in our lives, some of us have hundreds. None of us has the time to insure that "upgrades" don't degrade our current usage.

The ONLY time a corporation should be allowed to lobotomize the functionality of a device is when there are legal concerns involved. When a corporation releases an "upgrade" that degrades a previous product line's performance directly after a new version is released is extremely suspicious and deserves investigation.


RE: Don't repeal the best tax
By Reclaimer77 on 11/5/2010 12:57:19 PM , Rating: 4
quote:
Honestly, I don't understand the "bricked" problem.


What's not to understand? They released software updates that they didn't test (or more likely tested but didn't care) across all their lines of phones, and caused some models to have degraded performance to the point that they were unusable.

quote:
It's interesting that the iPhone still gets the best ratings.


Not interesting, just sad. Also what does that have to do with this article and situation?


RE: Don't repeal the best tax
By The Raven on 11/5/2010 2:45:56 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
That's really silly. First of all, Apple hasn't stopped supporting the 3G. I had one until recently, when my family upgraded to the 4. While it's true that certain functions slowed down with OS 4, others didn't. Then Apple came out with 4.1 which speeded up most of the slowed down functions. It's not as fast as a 3GS, and not nearly as fast as the 4, but considering it has much less RAM, a slower cpu, and slower gpu, it does fine. Honestly, I don't understand the "bricked" problem. Apple's support is much better than support for Android, which has to go through the carriers, and may not arrive at all. It's interesting that the iPhone still gets the best ratings.

This portion of your comment is completely irrelevant to the conversation/article. If you don't get the bricking problem then good for you. This is about people who do.

And if this happened to Android phones then the same would apply. I'm not sure why you even bring that up.

The 'fact' that Apple gets better ratings is explained in my comment.
quote:
Apple users try their best to make it seem that they never made a mistake in following the herd in the first place.

BTW It is not getting better ratings when it comes to sales as Android devices are out pacing it.

You obviously are one of the afore mentioned "Apple devotees" and not one of "the rest of us" who don't give a crap who makes our products or how in vogue they are as long as they work. I have plenty of experience with iPhones and Apple products to make a judgement call. If you don't have any experience you can go down to the damn "retard bar" in the Apple store and try the crap out.

So YOUR ignorance of the subject matter and the topic of the article aside, do you disagree with my point that you shouldn't return to the same vendor (be it Apple or anyone else) if they sold you a crappy product? If you disagree, then good luck in life because there won't be a Steve Jobs around forever to tell you what to buy or do. Grow a pair and make some decisions on your own. And take responsibility for your own decisions, unlike the people involved in this suit.


RE: Don't repeal the best tax
By nolisi on 11/5/2010 3:32:44 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
Apple's support is much better than support for Android, which has to go through the carriers, and may not arrive at all.


It's interesting you make this claim while making this claim:

quote:
You obviously don't use Apple products, so your views are somewhat ignorant.


I experienced my first issue with an Android device in 2+ years- I purchased a T-Mobile G2 (at release) that turns out has an issue maintaining the USB connection with systems. I placed a call to T-Mobile, after 15-20 minutes of troubleshooting, they're sending me a new replacement. They didn't tell me it's "how I'm holding the phone", or tell me to purchase a specific sleeve for my phone, nor did they recommend I should upgrade to their now newer MyTouch 4G. They did the simple thing of honoring the warranty and ensuring I had a useable device. Android support is there, and as far as I can tell, is as good as Apple's, maybe better based on what I've heard from a few friends who have had the issues reported in the media.


RE: Don't repeal the best tax
By cmdrdredd on 11/6/2010 6:35:41 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Apple's support is much better than support for Android, which has to go through the carriers, and may not arrive at all.


Wrong. My Android based Droid phone was fixed for free from Motorola directly where as Apple wanted $130 to replace my broken iPhone 3G. Guess why I don't own an iPhone anymore? HTC also has really awesome support.

quote:
Honestly, I don't understand the "bricked" problem.


It would be like Ford telling you there's a computer update fr a car. Someone says "ok well, I should get it cause it fixes things like they said" Then the person's car doesn't run properly and Ford tells them they should get a new car. It's a stretch to use this example, but it's essentially saying if you want the new features buy a new phone even though we still "support" the old device.

quote:
It's interesting that the iPhone still gets the best ratings. So I guess upgrading from another device is the way to go, not the other way around.


It does? How come consumer reports won't recommend the iPhone 4? How come numerous tech sites claim Apple's device doesn't hold a candle to the new Android devices like the EVO or Droid X? The iPhone's screen is garbage compared to the Samsung Galaxy S phones unless all you understand is the resolution numbers and don't know how the tech works. Not to mention the new Windows 7 phones having the best social network integration available and better than iTunes music support (yes it is that good). Apple can market the device, but that doesn't make it the best. It gets good ratings sure, but most of those people are rating it based on the cool factor and all that. Just like the Zune vs iPod. The Zune IMO is a better device with vastly superior sound quality and a better screen yet the name iPod alone sells a device. Pathetic at best.


By inperfectdarkness on 11/8/2010 5:12:36 PM , Rating: 2
one key difference i've noticed between apple and pc owners:

pc owners lament having to buy a new machine/component.

apple owners are proud of every single apple product they've ever bought; regardless of how high the count is.


RE: Don't repeal the best tax
By R3T4rd on 11/5/2010 11:34:58 AM , Rating: 2
Most company that makes software tests everything out and even has a way to back out/downgrade of the upgrade you don't like it. Apple on the other hand is forcing you to just live with it, no backing out/downgrading, etc. Apparently I find this news worthy and another thing to tell friends and family if they choose to purchase the iPhone. So I find your statement of "DT Bashing Apple" to be ludicrus at best.


RE: Don't repeal the best tax
By drycrust3 on 11/5/2010 1:57:27 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Most company that makes software tests everything out and even has a way to back out/downgrade of the upgrade you don't like it.

I agree. However, in their defence (yeah, I know, I actually started this by bagging them as well, but then thinking about their situation made me realise there was a bit more to this than I had initially thought), because of high demand it may well be that there are actually thousands of variants of the iPhone 3G. It could easily be that it was actually impossible for Apple to have tested the OS on every single variant because they didn't have samples of every single variant made and may not actually know what variants there are. The only guarantee they have is that all the phones did pass certain quality standards.
Some variations may have had very short production runs, e.g. just 100 phones (because of left over parts from one supply contract and a shortage on another), or used "unauthorised parts" (e.g. the storage chip bit rate was lower than what Apple specified) so that no one at the factory actually bothered to (or wanted to) send a sample to Apple. As long as the phone passed known performance standards (e.g. stores x number of songs, make and receive phone calls using y and z frequency bands, 7 hours of video, etc), and who's going to worry if the performance is a tiny bit shy of what they want (e.g. only does 6:59 hours of video), the phone would have been deemed sellable so it got a "passed" sticker.
Sure, not having a rollback capability is a bit slack, but since the phone doesn't have the infamous PC BIOS chip that allows one to reboot without the OS working, I guess one could argue that even if a rollback capability was included there wouldn't be any way of initiating the rollback.


RE: Don't repeal the best tax
By Targon on 11/5/2010 2:27:42 PM , Rating: 2
While there might have been different "lot" numbers, the overall specs are the same between different phones of the same model. This means that except for cases of a DEFECTIVE part that only affects certain units, the update would have an identical impact on all phones of the same model.

Software problems with individual downloaded applications are a different issue, but in this case, you have a new OS version which is PUSHED by the manufacturer causing a degradation in performance with no way of backing out of the OS upgrade.

This situation would be like a car company issuing a recall notice on your car that has a net effect of reducing horsepower by over ten percent and then refusing to do anything about it. If a manufacturer says "this is a good thing for your device/product", the vast majority will not question it. It would be unusual for a customer to second-guess the manufacturer about a "free" update.


RE: Don't repeal the best tax
By cmdrdredd on 11/6/2010 6:27:10 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
If I buy an iPhone and the thing craps out on me (for whatever reason: upgrade, hardware, etc.) and I turn around and buy a new one to fix it??? That is the stupid tax in effect.


Quite frankly you didn't read the article at all. It says that if you have an older 3G or 3Gs iPhone and still use it because it works and then see "oh iTunes tells me there's a new OS update. Apple says it has new features! I'm going to install it." and after installing it the performance of the device is cut in half and it crashes and generally doesn't function as it did prior to the update. Apple says it's supported on your device but their advice is to buy the new iPhone model. That would be like Sony or Microsoft releasing an OS update for their game console, but after install the games run at 15fps and are unplayable. Then they suggest buying a newer model system to fix the issue even when the documentation says it's compatable across the product line.

It has nothing to do with people buying a new iPhone to fix a broken old one as you suggest. The phone works, but it does NOT work correctly with the new update and the claim is that Apple did it on purpose.


RE: Don't repeal the best tax
By The Raven on 11/8/2010 12:16:28 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
and renders many of them virtually useless 'iBricks'

I didn't read the article AT ALL? Then what the hell is that?
Let me make an outlandish claim that YOU "obviously didn't read the article AT ALL."

Yeah, let me comment on something that I didn't read. That makes sense.

Let's just put this all aside and say that the update is breaking the functionality of the phones to various extents. I stand by my comment that you should not do what you said, and listen to the company who gave me the crappy device/crapped out my device and follow their advice when they tell me to buy a new one.
quote:
It has nothing to do with people buying a new iPhone to fix a broken old one as you suggest.

I didn't say that they said "buying a new phone will fix the old one". It was that "buying a new phone will fix their problem of not having a crappy phone".
You obviously didn't read my comment!!! ;-)


Understandable
By DBrinks on 11/5/2010 11:06:07 AM , Rating: 2
Ya know, I can understand taking action in response to the iOS 4 update because my girlfriend and I both suffered from the slow down after installing iOS 4 on our iPhone 3G's. Heck, she can't even use the multitasking abilities that should have come with iOS 4. We have tried reinstalling the OS multiple times and even took it into the Apple store and they had no idea what was going on.

It was a big let down but man, I dunno if the $5,000 really makes sense... Even $1,000 seems steep. However, I wouldn't mind an extra $5k!




RE: Understandable
By The Raven on 11/5/2010 11:25:54 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
I can understand taking action in response to the iOS 4 update

The action that should be taken is getting a phone from a different company. This suit is hogwash.


RE: Understandable
By inighthawki on 11/5/2010 12:40:56 PM , Rating: 2
No that action is a response to people not wanting to deal with Apple, not those who are affected by something Apple did to them while using their phone.


RE: Understandable
By The Raven on 11/5/2010 3:19:01 PM , Rating: 2
Listen to yourself man!
quote:
that action is a response to people not wanting to deal with Apple

Hmmm... who wouldn't want to deal with Apple? Hmm...
I got it! Maybe...
quote:
those who are affected by something Apple did to them while using their phone.


RE: Understandable
By inighthawki on 11/5/2010 4:25:16 PM , Rating: 2
No that is not what I meant. Avoiding buying their phone is action that is taken by someone who doesn't have one (aka, those who don't want to deal with Apple).

Just throwing away your phone and buying a new one because Apple slowed your current phone to a crawl to get you to buy a new one is not an acceptable solution by any means.

People want a fix, not to throw down another $400+ on a new phone because their contract hasn't ended (don't qualify for a renewal) or they need to pay a termination fee (switch to other carrier).


RE: Understandable
By The Raven on 11/5/2010 6:27:34 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
People want a fix, not to throw down another $400+ on a new phone because their contract hasn't ended

I think you are missing the point of the article. This article is about.
quote:
Now Apple has been accused of a different kind of bricking. According to a suit filed in Superior Court in San Diego this time around Apple used an OS update not to render useless just unlocked iPhones, but locked and unlocked models alike in a bid to force users of older iPhone models to upgrade.

They are people who are saying, "Darn, my iPhone doesn't work like it used to. Well, I better buy the newer model."
This is not about phones that plain just don't work or people who will have to go without a phone.

I think there is some confusion going around in these comments about upgrade v. update. Upgrade in this case means 'buy a new phone'.


RE: Understandable
By inighthawki on 11/5/2010 8:25:29 PM , Rating: 4
I am 100% aware of the point of the article, you seem to be missing the point though. If you upgrade, it requires a new phone, yes we all get that, but some people DO NOT WANT TO. They want their current phones to just work properly to begin with.

You originally stated:
quote:
The action that should be taken is getting a phone from a different company


To which I am saying that that is a completely unacceptable solution to the people who already have this problem and do not want to upgrade/buy a new phone at all. That proposed solution ONLY works for people who do not have the phone to begin with. Buying a new phone does not solve the problem at hand.


RE: Understandable
By The Raven on 11/8/2010 1:25:12 PM , Rating: 2
test


RE: Understandable
By nolisi on 11/5/2010 12:52:57 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
The action that should be taken is getting a phone from a different company.


Great idea- however you run into a few logistical issues with this idea.

1) Many users switch to AT&T just for the iPhone. So now that the iPhone has failed on the user experience, they either have to pay termination fees to leave the company, 2) The alternative- pay for an unsubsidized phone within AT&T so as not to blow money on term. fees(depending on where they are in their contract cycle- my understanding is that AT&T doesn't allow you to take advantage of subsidized prices during initial portions of your contract).

I have a third option that you may not have considered, however, that would have alleviate the need for a lawsuit:

3)Apple should actually provide the claims of a great user experience with the products they sell. This has been the Apple advertising mantra for decades now, and this is what Jobs himself claims users are purchasing an Apple product for. And when they fail, they should replace the product with an equivalent or better product that works.

Just a thought.


RE: Understandable
By The Raven on 11/5/10, Rating: 0
RE: Understandable
By Fritzr on 11/6/2010 1:03:45 AM , Rating: 3
This has nothing to do with a guarantee of satisfaction, other than the simple guarantee of merchantability. Apple recommended an update. The update broke the phone. The update is not reversible. Who is responsible for paying to fix/replace the phone?

Spelled out in simple terms

Customer received an iPhone 3 that worked in a satisfactory manner.
Apple urged all iPhone 3 owners to "upgrade" their experience with IOS4.
Customers followed the instructions given by Apple.
Customers iPhone 3 no longer works in a satisfactory manner
Customer requests a fix for this loss of performance.
Apple replies "Buy a new iPhone" & You say buy a new not-iPhone.
Lawsuit says undo the damage so that my phone works in a satisfactory manner WITHOUT paying another $400+ to replace a phone that is unusable ONLY because Apple refuses to reinstall the earlier IOS.

The point of the lawsuit is simple. Apple directed iPhone owners to take action that seriously degraded the iPhone. Afterward Apple refused to fix the problem caused by doing what Apple directed.
Solution 1) Toss the phone out and $pay$ for a new phone.
Solution 2) Apple takes action to undo the damage caused by the Apple recommended upgrade.
Solution 3) Apple buys the customer a new phone
The lawsuit is asking the court to force Apple to fix the problem or pay the cost of replacement.

Apart from a tarnish on the bright Apple reputation Apple supporters should be supporting this lawsuit as it directly affects the way Apple supports Apple products. Opponents of Apple of course will also be fans of this as it tarnishes Apple's reputation.

No matter which side of the fence you are on, Apple broke the phones and now refuses to fix them.


RE: Understandable
By The Raven on 11/8/2010 1:05:07 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Lawsuit says undo the damage so that my phone works in a satisfactory manner WITHOUT paying another $400+ to replace a phone that is unusable ONLY because Apple refuses to reinstall the earlier IOS.

If it is as simple as "reinstalling the earlier IOS" then why doesn't Apple do that and look like the good guys? Because they can't for whatever reason. If you think they won't do it because of some less than virtuaous reasons, then why do you want a phone from a company like that?

So basically you are saying they have to operate on each phone until they can alleviate the problems. Or give them a free replacement of their old model. Not going to happen. Repair is phyically impossible and not cost effective at all and old models are no longer made, so you are SOL.

If it bricked their phone even someone like me who doesn't like Apple finds it hard to believe that Apple would try to dismiss you if you brought a phone in under warranty because the phone was bricked due to a S/W update. I think there are already laws about that. But as with 100% of other products out there, if you are out of warranty, you are out of luck.

Lesson learned. Don't buy another iPhone. My family has lost a lot more than $400 on crappy cars. And luckily for me I haven't had to pay the same price because I learned from their mistakes. Maybe we should sue.

If you can't afford to take a risk on a phone that costs as much as the iPhone, G2 or whatever, then don't buy it. I guarantee you that this wouldn't happen with the "free" phones that the providers give out. If you can prove otherwise then you would be proving that this suit might just have some merit to it. Also it would have some merit to it if these people bought something other than an iPhone 4 as an interim solution. They should go down the list and dismiss everyone who bought an iPhone 4 to replace the 'bricked' phone from involvement in the case. I think Apple keeps that all on record lol.


RE: Understandable
By Fritzr on 11/9/2010 5:05:40 PM , Rating: 2
Why Apple is unable/unwilling to offer an iOS 3 install utility to downgrade older iPhones that have been affected is something that Apple is not discussing.

Currently owners of older iPhones who installed the Apple recommended update can live with reduced function or buy a new phone. Since Apple is currently unwilling to fix the problem...most will be buying a new phone to use while waiting (years?) until their older iPhones are repaired or compensation is received for damages.

As far as your recommendation that anyone who has purchased a newer iPhone as a replacement for the bricked iPhone...why should they be penalized for failing to buy a phone that does not support the OS they are familiar with and the apps they use routinely? You say they should be entitled to compensation if they buy an Android or WP7 phone as a replacement, but not if they buy an iOS4 phone. Why? Regardless of which phone they buy to regain the function that was destroyed by the Apple recommended update distributed by Apple, the old phone remains bricked until such time as Apple issues a fix for the problem or issues a credit good for upgrade to an iOS4 compatible handset.

All this lawsuit is asking is compensation from Apple for damage done by Apple to iPhone owners who followed instructions given by Apple. The lawsuit is not asking the courts to require these victims of Apple's customer service to shun Apple as a condition of receiving court ordered relief. Only that Apple undo the damage or compensate those harmed.


RE: Understandable
By The Raven on 11/10/2010 5:12:15 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
The lawsuit is not asking the courts to require these victims of Apple's customer service to shun Apple as a condition of receiving court ordered relief.

This is pretty much why I think this is bogus. If they could enforce this, it would be great.

Like if a man gets beaten by his wife every night presses charges, files for divorce and then marries the woman again when he gets out: he is asking for it. The law really shouldn't cover people like that. Of course, that is a matter of life and death. To extend that protection to someone who just buys a phone that doesn't work is stupid.

But of course none of this matters because there is no way to prevent people from crawling back to Apple. It would be great if the law helped those who helped themselves, but that is not the case.

And please don't get me wrong. I am not really advocating for that. I'm just saying that if they do want to insist on a suit, then that ideally would be the condition. I'm advocating that the law stay out of this. These people need to live with their decision like the rest of us who are too poor/too smart to pay for an iPhone.


RE: Understandable
By kmmatney on 11/5/2010 12:23:21 PM , Rating: 2
The best thing to do is to turn off spotlight search. It should make the phone a lot faster. Go into settings and turn off spotlight search for everything.

Apple should allow for people to revert back to the old OS, though.


wow
By AbuGarcia on 11/5/10, Rating: 0
RE: wow
By Iridium130m on 11/5/2010 10:59:32 AM , Rating: 5
if this becomes class status, you'll be dreaming if you think you'll get anything worthwhile out of it. The lawyers will get multiple millions in fees, and 3G owners will get a $10 off coupon to upgrade to the iPhone 4.

The only winners here are the lawyers.


RE: wow
By The Raven on 11/5/2010 11:07:26 AM , Rating: 5
quote:
The only winners here are the lawyers.

Not if your aim is to punish Apple, rather than get money in a settlement. I guess the definition of 'worthwhile' could be up for debate.

But you could lose the case of course. So the only guaranteed winners are the lawyers


RE: wow
By artemicion on 11/5/2010 12:25:10 PM , Rating: 2
Guaranteed? Are you under the impression that courts dole out "participation" awards for lawyers who lose cases? "Oh your claim had no merit, but you tried hard. Here's $1 million."


RE: wow
By Flahrydog on 11/5/2010 1:16:30 PM , Rating: 2
You forget that there are lawyers on both sides of the aisle. Apple's lawyers will make nicely if Apple wins.


RE: wow
By Flahrydog on 11/5/2010 1:17:16 PM , Rating: 2
edit:
will make out nicely


RE: wow
By The Raven on 11/5/2010 2:14:51 PM , Rating: 2
Yeah like Apple or the anti-RIAA people aren't paying the lawyers on each side? What are you talking about? Do you think that I'm claiming that the actual court itself pays the lawyers?

I doubt these guys are working pro bono. (Though it could be possible, I'm going with the stats here.)


RE: wow
By The Raven on 11/5/2010 2:20:31 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Apple or the anti-RIAA people

lol I'm getting my stories mixed up. I meant Apple or the plantiff.


RE: wow
By The Raven on 11/5/2010 2:20:57 PM , Rating: 4
P.S. I hate the RIAA


RE: wow
By SkullOne on 11/5/2010 11:10:38 AM , Rating: 2
Shoot I don't care about the extra money but possibly getting my money back for my iPhone 3G (which was half worthless thanks to AT&T in the first place) is very cool. Here's to hoping it works. :D


Damages?
By Spivonious on 11/5/2010 10:49:45 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
Ms. Wofford is seeking for Apple to reimburse every plaintiff in the class the cost of their phone, plus $5,000 in additional damages.


I wonder what her justification is for the $5,000.




RE: Damages?
By theapparition on 11/5/2010 11:07:03 AM , Rating: 2
Same as almost any other lawsuit. I mean really, does any lawsuit need justification?

Sue for the world, and hope you get Eastern Europe.

If only there was a day when tort reform would happen.


RE: Damages?
By icemansims on 11/5/2010 11:15:53 AM , Rating: 4
It's punitive damage. Without the capability to do something like that, it's like saying if I rob a bank and get caught "Oh, gee, here's the money back, so I don't have to go to jail."


RE: Damages?
By Solandri on 11/5/2010 2:28:37 PM , Rating: 2
The thing I've always wondered about is, why do the punitive damages go to the person filing the lawsuit and their lawyers? When you go to jail for robbing a bank, the bank doesn't get any benefit from it (aside from you being off the streets).

Punitive damages are supposed to be for the betterment of society overall. They shouldn't go to the victim(s). They should go to all of society. Either give the money to the government, or require it be donated to charities. Compensatory damages are what's been judged adequate to compensate the victims for their injury, so it's self-contradictory to complain that it isn't enough.


RE: Damages?
By Fritzr on 11/6/2010 8:26:01 PM , Rating: 2
It is payment to the plaintiff for going to the trouble of filing suit. With few exceptions, the courts have to wait for someone to declare themselves a victim AND for that someone to pay the cost in money and time to push the lawsuit through the courts. On the rare occasions, the government files such a suit, then the government receives the cash.

The lawyers who specialize in this area of law regularly advertise to find defendants who can be used as the focus of a court case that could easily net the lawyers millions in fees if they win the case.

It is these high fees that allow lawyers to base their business plan on speculative lawsuits where they get paid for a large percentage of the total award for winning, and little or nothing when they lose the case.


RE: Damages?
By gamerk2 on 11/5/2010 11:12:20 AM , Rating: 2
Punitive damages probably.


Here we go again
By masamasa on 11/5/2010 11:05:27 AM , Rating: 2
No big surprise though.




RE: Here we go again
By frobizzle on 11/5/2010 11:29:07 AM , Rating: 4
This statement pretty much says it all:

quote:
Despite the fact that this phenomena appears almost universal, Apple urged unwitting iPhone 3G users to upgrade to the new operating system.


Unwitting iPhone 3G users = 99% of iPhone 3G users


Fixed With iOS 4.1
By ltcommanderdata on 11/5/2010 11:34:02 AM , Rating: 2
While there were performance issues with iOS 4.0 for the iPhone 3G, Anandtech's review for iOS 4.1 showed that they've largely been fixed with iOS 4.1 along with a faster Javascript engine. As such, is this lawsuit even relevant anymore? Afterall, if people can file class action lawsuits for slowdowns experienced by software in the period of time between when the new version is released and a software update to fix it is available, we'll be inundated with these "timely" lawsuits.




RE: Fixed With iOS 4.1
By vectorm12 on 11/5/2010 11:48:22 AM , Rating: 2
I think the main gripe is the fact that most users would rather stick with 3.x after installing 4.x on their device.

I for one was stupid enough to install the Samsung Galaxy S "update 1"(in an effort to resolve the mail/GPS issues) before finding out it would make my phone close to useless due to frekvent crashes/reboots. Unfortunately like Apple Samsung offers no official way of downgrading once you've updated.

Now I'm rushing to install 2.2 in hopes it'll atleast make my phone dependable again...


RE: Fixed With iOS 4.1
By Brockway on 11/12/2010 9:17:06 AM , Rating: 2
You can use odin to reflash your phone (assuming its a Samsung Vibrant) back to original firmware.

http://androidspin.com/2010/08/09/how-to-restore-o...

If its not the Vibrant model of the S, it won't work, but there are guides out there for the other models if you google.

Also, wtf is up with Raven? You really think Apple should get away with that crap? A stupid tax is one thing, but a company forcing product obsolescence through firmware updates? You really want to encourage that?


I don't get it...
By Aloonatic on 11/5/2010 11:16:13 AM , Rating: 3
It's not like the iPhone 3G had a sticker on it saying "built for iOS 4" or "iOS 4 ready" or anything like that ;o)

/jokin'




Their plan worked
By DuctTapeAvenger on 11/5/2010 12:02:49 PM , Rating: 3
It definitely boosted sales for the Samsung Captivate!




No surprise here
By lagomorpha on 11/5/2010 4:10:23 PM , Rating: 4
Anyone stupid enough to buy Apple products, get screwed by Apple, and then is still stupid enough to continue to buy products from Apple got what they deserve. In the city I just moved to you can always tell who's going to be competing in the Special Olympics by their white earbuds.




RE: No surprise here
By Goatjoe on 11/6/10, Rating: -1
Ignore this
By Denigrate on 11/5/2010 10:49:30 AM , Rating: 2
Steve to the iSheeple: "These are not the iPhones you are looking for . . ."




By drunkenmastermind on 11/5/2010 11:30:08 AM , Rating: 2
Then it totally back fired because even though I had intended to upgrade to the iPhone 4, I was so fucking furious with the damage to the performance of my 3G that I determined never to by another iPhone...EVER!




Not mine
By msheredy on 11/5/2010 1:01:43 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
The suit stems from the fact that the iOS 4 upgrade leaves the iPhone 3G unresponsive and hard to use.


I heard about this but for some reason or other mine (and my wife's) hasn't been affected by the update.




Ok this annoys me
By Setsunayaki on 11/8/2010 6:02:53 AM , Rating: 2
I remember when my old Mac OS X upgrades would have software compatibility problems. The solution was always "buy our new software version to fix your problem" from vendors and apple.

I am not surprised a manufacturer would sabotage their own product to force an upgrade. I mean look at what APPLE and MICROSOFT do to their customers..

The two take it upon themselves to bloat their own software (an Operating System IS Software), along with first and third party software developers do the very same...

They bloat their own software to sell a SLOWER PRODUCT with a new feature, while Tech Developers use that to HYPE and Inflate the price of upgrading. It happens every 2 years someone upgrades.

Think I am full of it? I will make three STRONG points before you shoot me down :)

1) Consoles: I do like playstation and SNES as well as PS2...etc, YEAH some have had more than 10 year life cycles. However what happens when a console game is phased out? IT takes forever to find that product and consoles except for PS2 arent backward compatible..so once your console breaks when phased out...you cant play your old games...until they are rereleased in some network or handheld. However consoles don't get BLOATED because a user can OWN a console for years and still find games for them.

2) Linux: I like Linux and I've owned laptops for many years along with desktops with Linux and some boxes have not seen upgrading in 5 - 10 years :) You can see some builds being bloated up, but you dont see them extremely slow down and there is always a choice. You can run linux software on single cores too. If I wanted to turn 1000 BMPs into JPG, I just go to the command line and in one command I can have it done.....vs the bloatedness of Apple and Microsoft OSes

3) What about older OS in the Windows and APple Chain? Its all the same. You start with one clean, pristine OS...and then over time it gets cluttered up and thanks to the programs it gets harder and harder to perform....

I hate the entire idea that you PAY FOR SOMETHING and then you PAY someone to take that performance from you through a software update that syphons money from you for some extra feature at cruel and unusual punishment.

Think of it like this...APPLE (with iPhone), Microsoft (with Windows Phone), along with Google and those Droid Phones...I mean ANY FIRST PARTY company can force you to "upgrade" AT-WILL and override your security since you are part of a NETWORK when you power a phone on...Due to this they can SABOTAGE your phone and all you will say is "Maybe I sat on it" or "maybe it just died" or something weird.

Do any of you find this to be fair?

Is it fair where the only two places we see this kind of BUTCHERY is in the TECH INDUSTRY and in ACADEMIA?




What's it matter?
By FITCamaro on 11/5/2010 12:55:25 PM , Rating: 1
All the iDiots will still run out and buy the next piece of Apple hardware when it comes out with whatever money they win. Assuming they get any.




Totally off topic...
By nidomus on 11/5/2010 3:10:57 PM , Rating: 1
I loved the game Deja Vu. "Say 'Woof,' Taco!! Want
to play? Taco sends you to the hospital for stitches."




Oh brother...
By ultimatebob on 11/6/2010 10:36:52 AM , Rating: 1
I understand being pissed about how poorly iOS 4.0 ran on the iPhone 3G (I experienced it myself), but the 4.1 upgrade helped quite a bit. It's still not as fast as when the phone was new, but at least the phone is usable now.




By Tony Swash on 11/8/2010 2:38:55 PM , Rating: 1
Looks like iOS 4.2 fixes speed problems with iPhone 3g.

http://www.tipb.com/2010/11/07/ios-42-iphone-3g-pe...

iOS 4.2 is due in the next few days and the golden master (which the above demo uses) has been in the hands of developers for a while.

So problem solved :)




"Folks that want porn can buy an Android phone." -- Steve Jobs













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