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HP Slate
First Courier, now HP's Slate as well?

Is everyone just giving in to Apple now? Yesterday, we reported that Microsoft is abandoning its internal Courier dual-screen tablet concept. The Courier was to use dual 7" screens and rely on both pen and touch input.

Now HP is killing off its Windows 7-based Slate before it even hits the market according to TechCrunch. If you recall, Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer made a big deal about HP's Slate at this year's CES in Las Vegas. Ballmer actually brought a prototype device out on stage with him during his keynote address to the tech community.

TechCrunch's sources reveal that HP is simply unimpressed with Windows 7 as a platform for a touch-based tablet device. HP is also said to be nixing the idea of using Intel's Atom processors for any future Slate devices due to demanding power requirements.

The latter point is quite poignant as it is one of the negatives that HP pointed out in company slides comparing the Slate to Apple's successful iPad. Apple's iPad is good for 10 to 12 hours of real world use thanks to its lightweight iPhone OS and power sipping A4 processor. HP, on the other hand, lists the Slate's battery life at 5+ hours when running on a 1.6GHz Intel Atom processor (Z530). The relatively poor battery life of the Slate comes despite the fact that it packs a 30 Wh battery while the iPad features only a 25 Wh battery.

With Windows 7 and Intel now apparently out of the picture, that leaves Android/webOS and ARM processors for future Slate devices. HP said on Wednesday that it would be "doubling down on webOS" and that it would "scale it across multiple connected devices".

Considering that many have been somewhat unimpressed with Palm's recent hardware -- namely the Pre and Pixi -- but adore webOS, it would be quite interesting to see what HP can do with a tablet based on its newly acquired operating system and speedy ARM hardware.



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makes sense
By MadMan007 on 4/30/2010 4:43:00 AM , Rating: 5
In light of the Palm acquisition this makes sense if it's true. Why use an outside processor and OS which are merely ok when you might be able to do something great with inhouse stuff?

I don't really like the trend of closed CE devices encroashing upon real computer territory but oh well :/




RE: makes sense
By Dribble on 4/30/2010 5:23:33 AM , Rating: 2
I agree, they are gonna produce a palm os powered device, it's probably a major reason for the purchase of palm.


RE: makes sense
By Targon on 4/30/2010 8:29:38 AM , Rating: 2
The idea of using WebOS makes sense, but I doubt that HP would lock themselves into ONLY using ARM. It is possible that WebOS could be made to run on an x86 processor based machine, which would avoid them being locked in.

A big thing here is that the UI is what tends to make or break a portable device. Since WebOS has a good look and feel to it, HP likes the idea of putting it on tablets.


RE: makes sense
By 3minence on 4/30/2010 9:24:32 AM , Rating: 2
I don't think Atom is equal to ARM right now, but with another die shrink or two it will be. Of course, HP can go ahead and start the process of porting it to x86 now.

Using Win7 on a (relatively) small touch device is not a good idea. Win 7 is just not friendly to small screen touch devices. How long have tablet PC's running Windows been around and still failed to get much market share? Apple used it's head by using it's iPhone OS rather than OS X, MS confirmed it by using it's Zune OS on it's new phones.

I like WebOS. Hopefully HP will take the ball and run it for a touchdown. Competition is good.


RE: makes sense
By mcnabney on 4/30/10, Rating: 0
RE: makes sense
By omnicronx on 4/30/2010 11:07:28 AM , Rating: 4
quote:
Atom is superior to ARM in every way except power efficiency.
By the same account the iCore 7 is superior to the Atom in every possible way imaginable except for power consuption..

Does not really matter how much better it is if its power consumption is not suited for mobile/portable devices.

I'm not sure if the x86 will ever beat out other architectures which were built with efficiency and low power consumption in mind.


RE: makes sense
By MadMan007 on 4/30/2010 1:11:01 PM , Rating: 3
For UI the underlying OS matters but what *really* matters is applications. People generally don't 'use their OS' they use their OS to use applications. As long as the OS provides the capabilities needed for slicked-up touch applications Win 7 is ok and you can use any non-touchcentric program too if you like. So the problem is getting that slicked-up touch application base going.


RE: makes sense
By djc208 on 4/30/2010 1:32:55 PM , Rating: 2
True but I don't think you need a huge app store to have a chance either. A good web browser (with Flash support), e-mail/messaging clients, and media players is probably 90% of what these devices will be used for, just like on the phones.

Additional apps richen the experience, but wouldn't kill a WebOS tablet as long as the primary uses (web/media/email/im) work well, and from all I've read they do on WebOS.


RE: makes sense
By mckinney on 4/30/2010 10:28:50 AM , Rating: 5
Unfortunately, it looks like the Ipad was a game changer for HP and MS. The problem is that the Ipad is the extension of a well established platform (apps, music, UI) that neither MS or HP have at the moment. MS has the advantage to build on WP7 or Zune, but one isn't shipping and the other isn't that big of a seller. MS always relied on Windows for product familiarity when moving into new markets, but it appears that Apple has taken that play from the MS gameplan.
With the exception of the Xbox, MS has trouble utilizing the leverage of Windows in markets other than the PC.


RE: makes sense
By robinthakur on 4/30/2010 10:49:35 AM , Rating: 2
True, and the xBox runs a customised OS which bears no resemblance to Windows. I think that the noble goal of having a product line (Windows) which looks and feels similar on all devices from desktops to laptops to tablets netbooks, phones and media players is now not where its at. Even Windows 7 is clearly not designed or optimised properly for touch displays on portable devices in the same way that the iPhone OS or the WEBOS is.

I think Google stand the biggest chance of competing with the iPad, but Apple have the first to market advantage once again and alot depends on the hardware and how polished it is.

This cancellation is a bit of a slap in the face for MS as yes clearly HP is looking to leverage Web OS in a revised Slate-like device which isn't viewed as a poor-mans' iPad.


RE: makes sense
By omnicronx on 4/30/2010 11:00:06 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Unfortunately, it looks like the Ipad was a game changer for HP and MS.
Exactly, and of course the Palm acquisition could very well could have been the final blow. They just gained control of a very suitable tablet OS in WebOS, why not make something of it?


RE: makes sense
By gralex on 4/30/2010 11:20:33 AM , Rating: 2
Either that, or they realized Tabs are a fad and are in no hurry to start pouring in resources...


RE: makes sense
By AssBall on 4/30/2010 11:49:24 AM , Rating: 2
Precisely.

If I could make a profit selling feces to retards, though, I'd jump right on that wagon.


RE: makes sense
By JediJeb on 4/30/2010 5:08:38 PM , Rating: 2
That's what I was thinking. Maybe the market is limited to Apple Fans and HP figured that out.

For me I have no use for an iPhone, iPad or really any smart phone. I don't use an iPod or any other MP3 player because I rarely listen to music. What would the iPad or other Tablet device do for me that I can't do at my computer at home. I surely won't be using one while I am driving, and if I am out fishing or mowing the lawn I wouldn't be able to use one, I honestly can't think of any way it would be useful to me.


RE: makes sense
By Pirks on 4/30/2010 10:56:14 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
I don't really like the trend of closed CE devices encroashing upon real computer territory
reader1 where are thou?


RE: makes sense
By omnicronx on 4/30/2010 11:01:14 AM , Rating: 5
He can't get a wireless signal on his iPad =/


RE: makes sense
By AssBall on 4/30/2010 11:53:28 AM , Rating: 4
Maybe he went over the "limit" and apple decided to brick them all.


Right...
By damianrobertjones on 4/30/2010 3:19:09 AM , Rating: 2
... Bunch of silly bleeps.

Hp, you had such an amazing device with the HP tc1100 that it hurt. All you had to do is the following:

- At least a 1.6Ghz atom or at least a Z515
- AT least 2Gb ram, max 4Gb
- Crucial SSD drive or a standard 2.5. NO 1.8" Craptatstic HDs
- Usual Intel GPU that does HD
- Same screen size as the tc1100
- Multi touch like the Latitude XT
- Windows 7 Home Premium x32

Then, set the DAMN DPI to 125% (Could reviewers PLEASE mention this important tweak as this alone makes Windows 7 considerably better for touch!)

No crapware/bloatware, really good drivers that work out of the box (Are you listening Archos?) and maybe, just maybe, one of you OEMs actually tweak the OS to the customers advantage (Services etc)

I'd buy it. Instead I'm looking towards the HP 2740p (Would have considered the Toshiba M780 but no multi-touch????)

Fail.




RE: Right...
By ET on 4/30/2010 3:35:31 AM , Rating: 3
Would you buy it if it cost $1000, weight 1.5kg and the battery lasted for 5 hours? Perhaps, but I'm sure others won't.


RE: Right...
By Smilin on 4/30/2010 9:31:50 AM , Rating: 1
Yep.


RE: Right...
By piroroadkill on 4/30/10, Rating: -1
RE: Right...
By Dark Legion on 4/30/2010 4:37:45 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
x32? No. x64.

No. x86. For one, this atom doesn't support 64-bit IIRC, and even then what's the point?
And your solution to low battery life is to pack in more powerful hardware? A CULV Intel would use at least twice as much power alone. Keep in mind this is supposed to compete with other similar devices, and if you need more power that's what a laptop is for.


RE: Right...
By ImSpartacus on 4/30/2010 5:31:31 AM , Rating: 2
We've already seen that the way to go in a tablet is cell-phone tech. It's a bit depressing, but it's true.

x86 processors just don't provide the battery life that cell phones do.

And sometimes it's actually more processor intensive for an x86 CPU to play/output HD video. Terrible, but true.


RE: Right...
By oab on 5/3/2010 12:36:37 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
x86 processors just don't provide the battery life that cell phones do.


So, you're comparing a cell-phone to a desktop processor. Not an ARM-8 vs. Core 2 Duo, but a phone to a Phenom II.

That's a terrible comparison. It's like saying that a lawn mower uses less fuel than a F-18. While it is true, it doesn't mean anything.

Cell-phone processors are designed for low power consumption, desktop processors are designed for performance.

Phones (such as the iPhone 3gs and I assume many others) have built in h.264 video decoding chips, desktop processors don't have that instruction set built in.


RE: Right...
By AnnihilatorX on 4/30/2010 3:50:12 AM , Rating: 2
I have to agree TC1100 was amazing. Nice looking, helpful detachable keyboard, lightweight. The only thing wrong about it was the performance.

I have absolutely no idea why they would nix it. I went from TC1100 to Fujitsu ST5210. Same great device, much more powerful. I do miss the detachable keyboard.


RE: Right...
By MrBlastman on 4/30/2010 7:53:40 AM , Rating: 2
I was not planning on buying a slate computer either way for a few more years at least. The HP was actually one of the _only_ ones that currently looked appealing. Now that they are moving away from x86, Windows 7 and--full computing ability, I just have to throw this one in the trash with all the others.

I see no point, no point at all in spending serious money (500.00+) on a slate/tablet device that is not fully computing capable--i.e. an open platform like a true PC.


RE: Right...
By robinthakur on 4/30/2010 11:11:04 AM , Rating: 2
I used to think that as well, but in reality, what I would do on any such device (including my laptop) is use it to browse the web, check email, music, read stuff and use the odd app like office. I wouldn't be doing my photo editing or video encoding on it lol. I agree that *on paper* what you specified seems ideal, but the execution leaves a lot to be desired, in any form i've seen it done (e.g. Dell XT2), hence HP killed the Slate to concentrate on a WEBOS version which will probably have the same limitations as the iPad, have fewer apps and worse design. Is this good news? Only for Apple...


RE: Right...
By greylica on 4/30/10, Rating: -1
get ready for a generic apple clone
By invidious on 4/30/2010 9:14:13 AM , Rating: 3
HP should not be trying to beat Apple at their own game. They should be trying to make a pad device that is better at the things that iPad is bad at.

I don't think the 10 hour figure is really all that important anyway. Sure more is better, but I would never use the iPad for 10 hours straight. I would definitely trade a few hours of battery life for stronger performance or more features. If battery life was their major reasoning for turning away from win7 then they are morons, 5+ hours is perfectly fine if it means supporting a higher res screen and 720p video playback.




By robinthakur on 4/30/2010 11:05:01 AM , Rating: 1
Why would you want 720p playback on a tablet device? Presumably to output it to a tv or something? Watching it on a 10" screen seems pointless at best given that in tv terms you need at least 40" to see a massive difference between that and a decent SD picture...Ditto with the higher res screen, that would just make all the icons much smaller and harder to use wouldn't it?


By omnicronx on 4/30/2010 11:11:35 AM , Rating: 2
I don't really agree, the nature of capacitive screens and touch interfaces in general do not necessarily match very well with small screen sizes at higher resolutions.

Things would be pretty small on a 10" screen at 1268x720, not exactly the best kind of thing for a touch driven interface that requires larger buttons and such.(i know Win7 has stuff like this built in, but its just not the same) Even the android tablets I have seen around the web look more impressive right now.


Ha!
By Spind on 4/30/2010 2:59:20 AM , Rating: 5
I am sure 'reader1' is celebrating!




Good move, HP!
By T2k on 4/30/2010 2:15:01 PM , Rating: 2
I use a W7 tablet and it's very far from ideal - as a matter of fact it's an extremely shortsighted design from Microsoft, released in 2009 October, with this shitty, craptastic touch support, stupid legacy window scrolling, sliding etc.

Of course, one would easily argue that this is typical from MShit and I would agree - hence HP is smart ditching this entire crap and getting an awesome mobile OS with Palm.




RE: Good move, HP!
By kmmatney on 4/30/2010 5:10:04 PM , Rating: 2
Not sure why you got rated down, but I agree. I wouldn't want to use Windows 7 on this sort of device - it was a product destined for failure. It makes perfect sense to put the Palm WebOS on something like this.


ARM
By tigen on 4/30/2010 4:25:08 AM , Rating: 1
"speedy ARM hardware" what?




RE: ARM
By ImSpartacus on 4/30/2010 6:04:39 AM , Rating: 2
HP just bought Palm. All of HP's tablet will pack Web OS and ARM processors.


ARM vs Atom
By WinstonSmith on 4/30/2010 9:51:55 AM , Rating: 2
And it's ARM by a nose! More like ARM by a mile. The future mobile king.




Hmm...
By Ard on 4/30/2010 10:11:54 AM , Rating: 2
While I'm somewhat surprised to see the Slate killed off, it makes perfect sense in light of the Palm acquisition. HP has already said they're committed to webOS, particularly as it relates to tablets, so there's no need for Win7. Shifting focus away from Intel to ARM allows them to use webOS without having to worry about getting it to work with x86 (probably wouldn't be too difficult but the move still saves time/resources), in addition to getting better battery life and comparable performance.

Sad that we'll have to wait a bit longer for a competitor to the iPad, but if HP does this right, a webOS based Slate should be infinitely better than a Win7 based Slate.




Slate II ?
By kilkennycat on 4/30/2010 1:52:17 PM , Rating: 2
A Slate II with webOS and nVidia's Tegra2 (inc. dual Cortex-A9 processors) would be a very interesting (and power-sipping) product indeed. No problem running accelerated-Flash either...... Might be a very interesting poke in Stevie's eye.




iPad supports printing
By kmmatney on 4/30/2010 5:43:40 PM , Rating: 2
To those wondering if the iPad supports printing - well yes it does:

http://wiki.nisi.ro/2010/04/how-to-print-docs-from...




By crystal clear on 5/1/2010 2:57:27 AM , Rating: 2
If there will be any serious competitor to the iPad in the near future,it will come from Germany in the form of

We Pad .

11.6 "with 1366 x 768 pixels, Color, Multi-Touch

http://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en&sl=d...

Product comparison - We Pad to iPad.

http://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en&sl=d...

It has everything that iPad doesnt have-

Webcam 1.3 megapixels

2 x USB integrated, card reader, audio output, standard SIM card slot, HDMI

Java,Flash,Adobe Air

Multi tasking

Shipping in limited quantities- July 2010

Mass availability- August 2010




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