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Former friends, turned bitter rivals, Google and Apple now own a virtually duopoly on the U.S. smart phone market.  (Source: Flickr)

RIM appears to be fading fast with the BlackBerry smart phone brand dropping over half its U.S. market share over the last year. RIM is rumored to be considering pushing a new OS -- QNX -- to its smart phones in a bid to revitalize them.  (Source: Smart Phone Mag.)

Nokia and Microsoft are looking to Windows Phone 7.1 "Mango" to revitalize their smart phone sales.  (Source: Engadget)

HP courteously recused itself from the market, to webOS fans' chagrin. The departure leaves Microsoft, RIM, Apple, and Google as the only remaining major OS makers.  (Source: Mobile Knots)

  (Source: NPD Group)
Google solidifies its lead, Apple remains close behind

When it comes to veteran market research firm NPD Group, Inc., the latest report [press release] on smartphones is more good news for two major players and more very bad news for a third.

I. Google and Apple's Gains are RIM, Microsoft's Losses

For Google, Inc. (GOOG) and Apple, Inc. (AAPL) the news is happy.  Google rose from a 33 percent market share in Q2 2010 to a 52 percent market share in Q2 2011 -- a 57.6 percent increase in market share which came despite its legal troubles [1][2][3][4][5].  Apple, resigned for now to play second fiddle to Google grew from 22 percent to 29 percent -- a 31.8 percent increase in market share.

The bad news came for Waterloo, Ontario-based Research in Motion (TSE:RIM) who saw its U.S. market share drop from 28 percent to 11 percent -- a 60.7 percent decline.  In the last year the phone maker has lost nearly half its stock value as well.  

RIM appears to be fading fast.  Things look increasingly bleak for the company, which is rumored to be preparing to push its new operating system -- QNX -- into the smartphone market in a desperate revitalization bid.  It's easy to draw analogies between RIM of today and Palm, Inc. at the start of the webOS era -- beloved by some loyal customers, but increasingly scorned by the masses.  The similarities run deep in that both companies followed the largely defunct first-party OS model, a sluggish pace of handset releases, and inferior hardware.

The study also showed troublesome signs for Microsoft Corp. (MSFT).  Windows Mobile held approximately 10 percent of the U.S. market last year.  But by this year its successor, Windows Phone 7, had only accrued approximately 1 percent of the market, while Windows Mobile hung on to 4 percent of the market.  In other words, Microsoft saw its cumulative market share halved.

However, unlike RIM, Microsoft has deep pockets to try to revitalize its sales.  And with the upcoming launch of WP7's first major OS and hardware refresh, Mango, which seems to have strong support from a number of top third party handset makers, Microsoft looks poised to turn the corner and become a viable third place competitor.

II. Motorola Dips, Faces Puzzling Outlook

In terms of individual phone manufacturers, the biggest loser was recent Google purchase Motorola Mobility, Inc. (MMI).  Motorola saw its total market share drop from 15 percent to 12 percent, and its share of the Android handset market drop from 44 percent to 22 percent.

It saw its market share gobbled up by Android rivals LG Electronics (SEO:066570) and Samsung Electronics Comp., Ltd. (SEO:005930).

NPD analyst Ross Rubin was enthusiastic about Google's acquisition, though, which he says is beneficial to Android as a whole.  He comments, "Google's acquisition of Motorola shifts the balance of power in the handset-patent conflict between Google and its operating system competitors. Android's momentum has made for a large pie that is attractive to Motorola’s Android rivals, even if they must compete with their operating system developer."

He adds, "Much as it did in the feature phone market in the RAZR era, Motorola is experiencing increased competition from Samsung and LG in the smartphone market. Closer ties to the heart of Android can help inspire new paths to differentiation."

Of course, the Google acquisition of Motorola Mobility appears to have been primarily motivated from an intellectual property standpoint, so it remains unclear whether it will give choose to give unique advantages to its first party feature phones at its third-party partners' expense.

III. What Will the Market Look Like Next Year?

Overall there's still a great deal of uncertainty in the market.  Hewlett-Packard Company (HPQ) did refine the picture a bit, but voluntarily removing itself (and the ex-Palm webOS unit) from the smart phone market.  

Looking ahead, though, it remains to be seen whether RIM will find a way to revitalize itself or will become an acquisition target for one of the more successful or deeper-pocketed phone makers.  Don't be surprised if RIM has dropped even further in market share next year -- or has thrown its weight behind Android or Windows Phone 7.

But the biggest two outstanding questions are how Mango will be received and what will be the outcome of the Apple-Android legal war.  The outcome of those two factors should play a critical role in determining what the market looks like next August, when we sit back and look at the results of Q2 2012.

In the wild card category Intel Corp. (INTC) still has high hopes for Meego and Mozilla is cooking up a smartphone operating system of its own.  Don't get your hopes up that either of these projects will have generated even enough market share to earn a blip on next year's report, though.



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RIM's demise from what?
By DukeN on 8/22/2011 5:12:30 PM , Rating: 2
So Jason Mick, what exactly is this RIM's demise you're talking about?

Last time I checked, they were still making half a billion $ EACH QUARTER.

They dominate the market space in the lucrative enterprise side, so I'm not sure what demise Mick is referring to?

Love Android, but nothing comes close to RIM for productivity.

Picked up my 9900 last week - made it easier for me to reply to my 100+ daily email workload.




RE: RIM's demise from what?
By Pirks on 8/22/11, Rating: -1
RE: RIM's demise from what?
By retrospooty on 8/23/2011 8:19:47 AM , Rating: 1
Ugh... To you, anyone that likes anything that isnt the products you latched your digital teeth into is a "fanboy".

Speaking as someone that is not tied to any particular OS. RIMM's offerings in the past several years have been extremely lackluster compared to competing devices running on iOS, Android, WebOS and Win-Mobile7. IF BB7 changes that, I would welcome it. I have not seen a BB7 device, but highly doubt RIMM could make that large of a leap to catch up to the competition. Fail, fail, fail, fail, resounding succuess is not a pattern that is likely. Still, if they did , then good. More competition drives innovation and lower prices.


RE: RIM's demise from what?
By Pirks on 8/23/2011 1:44:04 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
To you, anyone that likes anything that isnt the products you latched your digital teeth into is a "fanboy".
No, to me Mick seems like a dumb fanboy because he writes stupid shit about RIM "demise" while NOT EVEN KNOWING SHIT about the new devices RIM just released.

If Mick wrote "I worked with BB7 for a while and this is why I think RIM demise is coming even with those devices" THEN I'd have no beef with Mick. Then it would be proper objective post.

But in current form? No. Mick is bashing BB 6 and tells us RIM demise is coming, all while BB 7 is out there and rocking the market, just read the posts on forums form people considering switching back to BB7 from Android or iPhone.

I own a BB7 device and I read different forums, not only the iPhone or Android ones. To me it's clear that RIM is onto something, and to Mick all there is just the old clunky BB6 handsets. Fine, let Mick bash RIM because he's clueless, but why you think it makes me RIM fanboy? Because I bought BB7 device and hence I KNOW (unlike clueless Mick) what I'm talking about?

Grow up retro, you have no argument here. The moment Mick reviews some BB7 stuff and starts writing posts considering the NEW devices too - then I'll probably stop calling him biased fanboy.
quote:
Fail, fail, fail, fail, resounding succuess is not a pattern that is likely
Hahaha, now you sound like a delusional fanboy too. Judging by financials and profits on a world wide markets RIM's path looks more like "hit, smash hit, smash hit, hit, stumble, decline in US but growth elsewhere, hit? (possibly maybe :) with BB7".

So you too think Apple ads matter? And you too think that market share in the US is EVERYTHING? I said and I say again - GROW. UP.

Thank you.


RE: RIM's demise from what?
By retrospooty on 8/23/2011 2:04:44 PM , Rating: 2
"Fine, let Mick bash RIM because he's clueless, but why you think it makes me RIM fanboy"

Why ? LOL, are you really asking that question? You aggressively jump onto any thread where anyone says anything at all negative about RIMM. The very fact that you are all bent out of shape because Mick mereley suggests RIMM's days are numbered because their products suck PROVES that you are a hopeless fanboy. Normal people don't give a crap if someone else doesn't like the company that makes their phone... and you are telling me to grow up? Get a grip man.

And just to add to the content. Mick is right. Blackberries have been obsolete for 4 years now. Consumers figured it out a few years ago, and corporations are coming to that conclusion as well. Why buy the $20 per user per month cow when MS gives you all the milk you can drink for free?

RIMM's days are numbered. That cash cow BB service is obsolete, and without that, they are left with only thier phones, which suck when compared to the competition.

Face it... Accept it... Live with it...


RE: RIM's demise from what?
By Pirks on 8/23/2011 2:26:07 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
The very fact that you are all bent out of shape because Mick mereley suggests RIMM's days are numbered because their products suck PROVES that you are a hopeless fanboy.
Nah, it's more like Mick is baselessly bashing RIM whenever he has a chance, and I just point at his mistakes, I'm explaining why and how he is biased. What's the problem with pointing at mistakes of others? Why does it make you a fanboy? If you bashed WP7 and I pointed out your mistakes and explained why and how your bashing is undeserved - will this make me WP7 fanboy too?
quote:
they are left with only thier phones, which suck when compared to the competition
Not everyone agrees with you, however. Some reviewers are talking rather positive about new BB phones, for example this review of the phone I bought a few days ago: http://crackberry.com/blackberry-torch-9850-9860-r... - I can't say it's a bad phone consumers won't like even if I were an Apple fanboy. There's a lot to like about these new phones so your RIM bashing has no ground at the moment. It made sense back in the days of the old and slow BB 6 devices but not today for sure.


RE: RIM's demise from what?
By retrospooty on 8/23/2011 3:02:36 PM , Rating: 2
I hope its nice, I kinda doubt it, but I am open to try it myself. And if you don't mind, I will wait for a review from a site without the domain name crackberry for an unbiased review. LOL


RE: RIM's demise from what?
By Pirks on 8/23/2011 3:31:15 PM , Rating: 2
Fair enough. Let's see how Anand, Engadget, Ars and other reviewers will treat this new sweet Torch 9860. For now I enjoy it and Mick haven't seen it or any other BB7 device, so I'll bash his stupid posts anyway :))) When he tries that phone, when he gets PRACTICAL experience and starts to get a grasp of the things he tries to write about - then I'll change my tune, hehe.

It's all about bashing the things you tried yourself , not the things you THINK you know about by looking at their pics online, just like Mick does with BB :) Very important difference I think.


RE: RIM's demise from what?
By retrospooty on 8/23/2011 7:22:35 PM , Rating: 2
OK, so you tell me then... What does this phone do that the rest of the industry didnt do already 2-3 years ago? Anything? Or is RIMM just catching up?


RE: RIM's demise from what?
By Pirks on 8/23/2011 8:07:50 PM , Rating: 2
I guess it delivers something special to those enterprise customers that's been buying RIM solutions all these years, you know, BES, BIS, BBM and such.


RE: RIM's demise from what?
By retrospooty on 8/23/2011 8:26:53 PM , Rating: 2
So, in other words it doesnt do anything that the others were doing 2-3 years ago.

as far as the Blackberry service, it is totally obsolete. MS gives mobile email away for free with EAS, where BB charges companies $20 per user per month... Thus the reason IT depts have been turning away from Blackberry.

Now the important question... Does your blackberry support EAS like all other phones? Or is it still in hte stone ages?


RE: RIM's demise from what?
By Pirks on 8/23/2011 8:54:55 PM , Rating: 2
BBM, BIS and BES weren't on the other phones 3 years ago, so you're lying here.

Now the important question... Why would you need a battery and data sucking constant-connection EAS when BB connectionless method via NOC is much less battery draining and more data efficient?


RE: RIM's demise from what?
By retrospooty on 8/24/2011 7:58:33 AM , Rating: 2
Typical Pirks... When confronted, avoid, evade and distract.

"BBM, BIS and BES weren't on the other phones 3 years ago, so you're lying here."

1. I never said that the other phones had BB services, what I implied is that BB services are obsoleted by EAS and EAS is free at that
2. Do you really want to compare battery life on all phones? EAS is not a problem.
3. You never answered the issue with BB service costing $20 per month while EAS is free.
4. To your other post about BB being more reliable. There have been sevearl high profile BB outages where BB was out and all other were offline. IF you want to Cherry pick data, so can I.
5. Again, you never responded to what the brand new late 2011 model Blackberries have that iphone, android and even WebOS all had 2-3 years ago. Answer = NOTHING! (other than the obsolete BB service which is NOT a positive, its a negative)


RE: RIM's demise from what?
By Pirks on 8/24/2011 12:55:37 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
EAS is not a problem
http://www.techatplay.com/?p=482 thinks otherwise
quote:
You never answered the issue with BB service costing $20 per month while EAS is free
You never answered the issue with BB service being more data traffic and battery life saving than EAS.
quote:
what the brand new late 2011 model Blackberries have that iphone, android and even WebOS all had 2-3 years ago. Answer = NOTHING
Show me BBM in a phone 3 years ago, or else you're a liar.
quote:
obsolete BB service which is NOT a positive, its a negative
If BBM is negative, why Apple ripped it off recently into their own BBM-like iMessage service?
quote:
BB services are obsoleted by EAS and EAS is free at that
Hehe, EAS is free for a reason - free products are lousy ones, and paid are better, such is the case with battery and data efficiency of non-free BB services.


RE: RIM's demise from what?
By retrospooty on 8/24/2011 6:01:14 PM , Rating: 2
my god man, you are either clueless, or just totally unwilling to admit you are wrong.

Thank you for not listening, reading, or comprehending a damn thing. Yes, I must be a liar for TWICE not saying anything at all what you say I said.

1. 89% of the smartphones sold in the world today use EAS and dont have battery issues.

2. Again (again) I didnt say BBM was in competing phones. I said its obsolete.Corporate/Exchange EMAIL, has been available for phones via EAS since Exchange 2003 came out, thus obsoleting BB serice.

3. EAS is not "free" per say, its part of exchange which is already quite expensive for the user CAL's etc etc. You just dont have to pay extra for it like you do for BB ... This makes BBM a negative... cow, milk, free etc, remember?

But thank you for proving how clueless you are. Its now clear that you are more interested in not being proven wrong than you are in facts or even openmindedness. Also, I know you have to have the last word so go for it , its yours.


RE: RIM's demise from what?
By Pirks on 8/24/2011 8:34:44 PM , Rating: 2
Yeah of course if they have not as good battery life as BB phones they "don't have issues", is that right?

I see you don't even know what BBM is if you compare it to email. This is pretty dumb you know, to compare chat service to email :)))


RE: RIM's demise from what?
By Pirks on 8/24/2011 2:25:41 AM , Rating: 2
And yet another important question for retro man here: why would you choose unreliable phones that go down the moment minor disaster strikes when you can choose invincible BB handset that works during disasters when all the other phones are dead? Read this: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-08-23/blackberr...

How do you like this one, RIM hater? I see you're keeping quiet now. Good. One more clueless RIM hater down, call it a day :)))


RE: RIM's demise from what?
By retrospooty on 8/24/2011 9:55:32 AM , Rating: 2
On 2nd thought lets analyze this... =)

Basically, what happened here is that phone services were down and data was up. This is 100% dependant on the carrier, not the phone or the email serivce. This data would have to be up for either BB or EAS. Your whole point is moot. If the best you can come up with is that, then you fail, because there have been several high profile BB outages where others were up. In other words, BB adds a level of potential failure. IF Phone/voice is down, then noone work. If data is down, then none work. IF data is up, BB still has potential to be down, becasue it relies on RIMM. As long as the cellular carrier has data, then EAS is running, becase it talks directly from your mail server to the internet, without anyone (RIMM) in the middle (collecting money to add nothing of value).


RE: RIM's demise from what?
By Pirks on 8/24/2011 1:00:20 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
collecting money to add nothing of value
http://www.techatplay.com/?p=482 thinks otherwise. If RIM indeed collected money for nothing and EAS was just as good as BB while being free then RIM would never get as many customers as they did.


RE: RIM's demise from what?
By retrospooty on 8/24/2011 6:09:51 PM , Rating: 2
ooooh... a link, that PROVES it.

LOL

Anyhow, RIMM, once upon a time, had a great email service that built them into a huge brand name and businesses flocked to them. It took many years after it was out for EAS to start to take hold. You know how slow IT depts are to make changes. That swing began slowly in 2005, 2006 and is in full swing today as large IT depts dump their BB service left and right in favor of a free service that has the same result. Let me spell it out for you.

EAS setup - free
Mail server > internet > mobile phone
end result - mobile mail, calendar, contacts etc.

BB setup - $20 per user per month
Mail server > BB enterprise server > internet > RIMM > mobile phone
end result - mobile mail, calendar, contacts etc.
On top of that, they are just NOW getting phones that have features that other phones/OS's had 2-3 years ago.

Simple huh? Any questions?


RE: RIM's demise from what?
By Pirks on 8/24/2011 8:24:32 PM , Rating: 2
A link that PROVES that BB solution provides better battery life and is less data traffic hungry? And you are so happy about it? Well... I guess if you are happy about that then I am happy too :) Case closed.
quote:
they are just NOW getting phones that have features that other phones/OS's had 2-3 years ago
I just realized that you know nothing about what BBM is and why it has nothing in common with email. Well, whatever. You definitely have no will to learn about it and that's fine. I'm okay to argue a little with uneducated, no problem with that. But case closed like you said, so bye :)


RE: RIM's demise from what?
By retrospooty on 8/25/2011 9:03:06 AM , Rating: 2
okeedokee... I got my Blackberry acronyms wrong... BFD, that doesnt change anything. If you are seriously putting up thier chat service as a thing that other phones didnt have 2-3 years ago then you are sadly mistaken. Chat has been around on phones for a long time. IF you are putting up BBM specifically as something that wasnt on other phones, well of course not. Its thier own chat service.

Whatever man, enjoy your phone, I am glad you like it. I have zero understanding on why you would buy it, unless your company had a BB mail server and required it, AND paid you back, but that is your choice.


BB for Android/iOS
By Syran on 8/22/2011 1:58:45 PM , Rating: 3
Honestly, IMHO, for RIM, it is time to get out of the smartphone market. Instead, create a app package that runs on Android and iOS to provide an encrypted envelope on a phone that handles emails and messages via the blackberry network and a BES. I prefer the tools that a BES gives me on the enterprise level over anything provided for connecting to other phones. Email & Scheduling is what RIM and their BB's still do best, it's everything else that has gotten way behind. Get rid of the dead weight, and bring it back to what made them so good.




RE: BB for Android/iOS
By JasonMick (blog) on 8/22/2011 2:01:33 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Honestly, IMHO, for RIM, it is time to get out of the smartphone market. Instead, create a app package that runs on Android and iOS to provide an encrypted envelope on a phone that handles emails and messages via the blackberry network and a BES. I prefer the tools that a BES gives me on the enterprise level over anything provided for connecting to other phones. Email & Scheduling is what RIM and their BB's still do best, it's everything else that has gotten way behind. Get rid of the dead weight, and bring it back to what made them so good.

Ditching hardware and going for enterprise software?

Do you mean it should pull an HP? ;)

P.S. That kind of play can pay off in the long run, but HP's stock was NAILED when it announced its plans to quit consumer HW.


RE: BB for Android/iOS
By Syran on 8/22/2011 2:13:21 PM , Rating: 1
I think RIM is already being nailed for it.


RE: BB for Android/iOS
By Souka on 8/22/2011 3:31:14 PM , Rating: 3
From what little I know, only RIM supports true encryption of data...email being one example..

Not a small matter if I'm not mistaken.

Lets hear your comments! :)


RE: BB for Android/iOS
By jonmcc33 on 8/22/2011 5:34:11 PM , Rating: 1
Android and iOS don't do that natively but there are apps by companies that handle the encryption. Trust Digital (now a part of McAfee) is a prime example.


RE: BB for Android/iOS
By Samus on 8/23/2011 12:19:25 AM , Rating: 3
It's too bad because RIM makes solid hardware. I've always considered RIM products higher quality than Apple, especially regarding signal strength, reception clearity and obviously the keyboards. They are well-built and easy to maintain/repair. As a network engineer, RIM devices are by far the easiest to manage and deploy for single users through small businesses up to enterprise BES/Exchange.

The problem has been they keep coming out with O/S's that are slower, buggier, and more complicated, all the while offering no real improvements.

Most of my BB users wish they could still run BBOS5 on their newer devices, as reception of OS6 over the past 12 months has been for the most part negative.

Blackberry users aren't that much different from Apple users. They want a simple product that works. All RIM has had to do all along is make their OS relevant , not mature. To bet on QNX is a risky move. Alienate your loyal customers you will.


RE: BB for Android/iOS
By Iaiken on 8/22/2011 2:17:15 PM , Rating: 2
If they did that, it would open the door for Google, Apple or Microsoft to simply take them over without fear of anti-trust and those players could just roll that up into their OS.


RE: BB for Android/iOS
By phantom505 on 8/22/2011 2:42:24 PM , Rating: 3
HP has made stupid move and stupider move for years. They spun off their instrument division, Agilent, years ago. Any employee with a choice and any sense went to Agilent.

They surrendered to TI on calculators despite having the dominate position for over 20 years in the graphic calculator area.

They had the solid PDAs (the one I got in 1998 still works, and isn't even all that horrible for basic functions) yet they failed hard on making it into a phone.

I've had at least 3 HP laptops that performed well. I don't think any of the died before their MTBF.

They deserve to die off, their management is terrible these days. Then and Sony are going to crater... just a matter of when.


RE: BB for Android/iOS
By drycrust3 on 8/22/2011 5:12:43 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
Ditching hardware and going for enterprise software?

I wondered what all the hype was about until I bought my first smart phone, now I can see what the hype is about.
If you look at the PC you can see that what made it popular wasn't that IBM made it, it was that IBM let other people copy and build their own cheaper versions of it, and that they let other companies improve on what they had started; and that Microsoft made a standard operating system that a manufacturer could tweak to give it an air of distinctiveness, but it was still standard so that it would run the same software as any other Windows platform.
Android has pretty much followed a similar path until now: a manufacturer makes some hardware that is essentially the same as what other manufaacturers make, but they can then add their own distinctive features to the Android OS so their product has something that appeals to a niche in the market.
In the same way, if RIM made its software so it ran on a standard set of hardware, e.g the same as what Android runs on, then it could dispense with the hardware side of the equation and just deal with what made them stand out: a mobile platform that appeals to business people.


RIM lives, folks
By respighifan on 8/22/2011 2:39:30 PM , Rating: 2
The thing everyone seems to forget is that RIM has a unique position in that it still dominates in any enterprise where IT support is complex and privacy and security are paramount.

Further, it is still growing in certain international markets, so it still manages to be profitable while changing to a new OS - no small achievement that!




RE: RIM lives, folks
By Pirks on 8/22/2011 3:51:20 PM , Rating: 1
Also the new RIM handsets rock, they got rid of all the UI slowness of the previous versions of their OS, got a nice stack of prepackaged apps on their device (GPS nav, HTML5 webkit browser that's as fast and easy to use as iPhone 4's one, facebook, twitter, rss, social feeds, email, youtube, bing, etc etc) and their hardware rocks again, say hello to new 1.2 GHz ARM goodness with full OpenGL ES 2.0, hardware accelerated UI, 720p HD video camera and all the bells and whistles typical consumer is looking for. Plus their app store hit a billion downloads a few months ago, with 3 million downloads a day. Plus Playbook is selling like hot ckes in Australia ( http://www.current.com.au/2011/08/22/article/Fanta... ) plus BBM is a number one choice communication tool in UK, plus new QNX phone, new QNX NDK for Playbook, new Android App Player are all near the release stage and to be unleashed in next 3-6 months.

So yeah, I kinda respect what Mick posts here, but come on, give him a fair judgement. The guy knows absolutely nothing about BB as a platform, its strengths and weaknesses. He's an Android fanboy.

And why would you read BB news from Android fanboy? Mick is so predictable.

I checked out a few new BBs in my local stores, and picked a Torch 9860 yesterday. After comparing it to iPhone 4 and Android hadsets in the store I realized that RIM has actually made it happen - they caught up to iPhone in terms of slick UI, stylish modern hardware and nice/quality packaged apps. Sure the iPhone 5 will change that again but come on, BB catching up to iPhone at all? Who would have believed in that? Not me for sure. But one visit to my local wireless stores and... damn RIM is onto something.

So I'm just sayin' you guys take ramblings of this Android fanboy Mick with a grain of salt. Gotta try those nice new Bolds 99xx and Torches 98xx (both slider and full screen touch ones) for yourself before making a judgement. Don't trust fanboyish hater posts from Mick or Swash, these people are not objective at all. Go try the stuff for yourself! Don't be brand whores, okay? It's such a shame to be a brand whore, seriously.


RE: RIM lives, folks
By bplewis24 on 8/22/2011 4:54:20 PM , Rating: 2
When a RIM fanboy comments on RIM criticism by calling the author a fanboy, it doesn't hold much weight.


RE: RIM lives, folks
By Pirks on 8/22/2011 5:07:41 PM , Rating: 3
Still, if you decide to stay a brand whore, you risk to miss some good stuff, just because it doesn't have the sacred logo. That was my main point. All the rest about recent RIM releases is secondary to that.

So you can be a brand whore or you can go and try different products, your choice man!


RE: RIM lives, folks
By robinthakur on 8/23/2011 6:35:33 AM , Rating: 2
LOL my work handset is a BB Torch and my personal handset is an iPhone4. If I only had the BB I'd probably slit my wrists, it's terrible! There are a million different ways of doing everything and the OS is primitive in the extreme. It is still really slow, the gesture response is way off and the options are unintelligable and spread out through all the apps in what might as well be hidden menus. The KB is ok but I would rather use a functional touchscreen KB in all honesty. I've glanced at the Apps market, and the layout is horrible (surprise surprise) and the apps overpriced. Surprisingly, email is not that great with none of my folders in Outlook filtering through to my BB, if Outlook routes a message to a folder it just doesnc't show up on my BB! The hardware itself is well made (Screen is very bright but horribly low res), but the iP4 is an order of magnitude better. Are we talking about the same BB Torch?


RE: RIM lives, folks
By Pirks on 8/23/2011 12:36:56 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Are we talking about the same BB Torch?
No, not the same. Your Torch is 9800 released in 2010, mine is Torch 9860 released in 2011. Yours is slider, mine is full screen touch device, no hardware keyboard. Yours uses slow clunky old OS 6, mine uses new much faster OS 7. Yours has no 3D hardware, mine has OpenGL ES 2.0 GPU with hardware accelerated UI on top. Yours is slow 600 MHz CPU, mine is mush faster 1.2 GHz CPU. Our phones are VERY different. I'm not talking about YOUR phone in my posts, okay? I'm talking about the NEW BB devices being released right now.


RE: RIM lives, folks
By Pirks on 8/23/2011 1:59:37 PM , Rating: 2
Here you go robinthakur, this is my new BB7 phone: http://crackberry.com/blackberry-torch-9850-9860-r...

Isn't it lovely? ;) Must be VERY VERY different from your current old Torch 9800. You gotta play with one in the store and post your impressions here, I'd be very interested in them.


RE: RIM lives, folks
By wordsworm on 8/22/2011 4:02:21 PM , Rating: 5
It lacks one serious function that it used to have: hype.

My wife wanted a Blackberry for years. Then, it was the iPhone. Now, it's the Android via Galaxy tab. What a waste of money all that junk is. What does she want all that junk for anyways? So that she can show it off to her friends. Which is precisely why I'll never buy any of those hunks of junk.

I can see valid applications for these smart phones. I just think that most folks buy them to show off their gadgets to their friends. Of all the smart phone owners I've seen, only two of them really used the smartphone functions for any purpose. One guy ran his servers with one while the other relies on networking for his business.


Apples and oranges
By lukarak on 8/22/2011 2:30:00 PM , Rating: 1
When your operating system ships on cheap phones as well as flagships it is only natural that you have the market lead in number of shipped devices. However, it would be nice to see what is the total revenue from android phones, and from apple phones.

from a developer standpoint, apple offers way more income, and it works very well for both sides.




RE: Apples and oranges
By theapparition on 8/22/2011 2:45:09 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
When your operating system ships on cheap phones as well as flagships it is only natural that you have the market lead in number of shipped devices.

You mean like Apple, which still sells the seriously outdated iPhone 3GS for $49?


RE: Apples and oranges
By messele on 8/22/2011 3:03:31 PM , Rating: 2
The 3GS is that outdated that it still outsells any individual model of Android phone in the USA at this moment.

The wire's 3G actually still feels relatively usable, which is nice.


RE: Apples and oranges
By lukarak on 8/23/2011 12:27:16 AM , Rating: 2
It's not the subsidized price that matters. Plus, Apple sells more 4s than 3GSes. Plus, android sales consist of even more 'outdated' devices, spec wise when compared to flagships, not by release date.


RE: Apples and oranges
By messele on 8/23/2011 2:44:13 AM , Rating: 2
Yes, exactly.

Google Android is poised to take over from Nokia as the OS of choice for budget low end handsets, most of which will be purchased by people who are not aware of what Android is or probably what an operating system is for that matter.

Those people are not the people who are vociferous on internet discussion groups but there's several orders of magnitude more of them.

Good luck to Android, it's a fantastic Operating System but nobody should pretend for one minute that it's ubiquity is any sort of an indication of the state of the market for high-end handsets. It clearly isn't.


RE: Apples and oranges
By lukarak on 8/23/2011 7:02:18 AM , Rating: 2
It is not that different from the PC world, where the Mac even dominates the $1000+ market, virtually the only one it is present in (excluding the mini)

It has to be careful not to fall behind in applications as it did in the Mac space.


RE: Apples and oranges
By kmmatney on 8/23/2011 2:48:52 AM , Rating: 2
The iPhone 3GS is pretty fast, and does everything you need a smartphone to do. I'm still running mine after 2+ years, and it generally provides a smoother experience than my wife's much newer Android phone. It will easily tide me over until the next generation comes out. For most people, it's all they need - and it has much better battery life to boot. The only real criticism I would have would be the mediocre camera, and lack of facetime (which works a heck of a lot better than Skype, from my experience).


RE: Apples and oranges
By DeluxeTea on 8/22/2011 11:58:48 PM , Rating: 2
You are conveniently forgetting that the only reason Apple sells a lot of their iPhones is because it is the only model available. Android phones, on the other hand, is on cheap, mid-range and flagship phones, which gives consumers a choice. No wonder Android beat Apple in terms of market share. Customers can choose what kind of Android phone best fits their lifestyle, instead of paying a huge amount to Apple just to use an iPhone.


RE: Apples and oranges
By lukarak on 8/23/2011 2:09:16 AM , Rating: 2
I'm not forgetting that, I'm saying exactly that. I'm just saying another side of the coin in that statement. You say that the only reason apple sells so much iPhones is because it is your only choice, I'm saying that because of that you can't compare Android and iOS. Because consumers that want to spend $150 on a phone with a $30 two year plan will maybe go for a $150 phone with a $35 or $40 plan or a $250 phone with $30 plan, but they won't go double of what they wanted to pay in the beginning just to get Apple. If you compared apple flagship sales with sales of similarly priced (and higher priced) android competition, i don't think the shares numbers would be only reversed, but that it would go even further in Apple's favor.

However, market-share based on a number of devices sold is not the most important thing for a platform status. There are roughly three sides in every platform, manufacturers, developers and consumers. All three have to see benefits, and personally as a developer and consumer, and looking at Apple's numbers, i think that platform is a lot more "sweetspotish" than Android. Which doesn't mean that i wouldn't want Android to be there as well, it would be in everyone's interest, even Apple's.


don't write off microsoft just yet
By Bozzified on 8/22/2011 9:38:11 PM , Rating: 2
People seem to forget that Microsoft is not even in the game yet. I think we will see a very strong return of Microsoft to the mobile scene with the release of Windows 8 and Windows Phone updates. Everyone seems to easily overlook Microsoft dominance with Windows and Xbox 360 in the whole world. If they do it right, combine Windows 8 on tablets, desktops and laptops and integrate their XBL arcade market with Windows phone and tablets running windows 8 they can propel in market share at lightning speed. With the arrival of Ultrabooks people will undoubtedly want unified experience across the board and honestly,Microsoft is the only company that can deliver this on a large scale.

I am a big android fan due to its openness and great capabilities alongside hardware diversity but Microsoft is also able to deliver this across the board and with more control over experience.

I think they will come back stronger than ever and I might even consider my next phone sometime next year to be windows phone.

The real question is whether or not Microsoft can do it right. I think a lot of it is riding on how good of an experience windows 8 will be on desktops but more importantly on tablets. Reality is that if they compete only on phone level they will lose.

With this being said, I think it's definitely not too late, simply because mobile and tablet markets are just at the beginning and these percentages shown even though seemingly high, are just a drop in the ocean of the overall computing market worldwide, so owning 60% or 30% of a 1-2% of overall computing market is miniscule. We are at the beginning really and why I think Microsoft isn't out yet.




By spacemonkey211 on 8/23/2011 9:15:19 AM , Rating: 2
The real problem with Windows 8 in tablets is if they are running ARM... none of your old apps will be compatible. Even Microsoft is saying this.

Without backwards compatibility... Windows = no go. They will be no real difference between that and Android or iOS except they already have a huge amount of software running on it.

If they make the tablet ARM OS the same as their desktop OS, guaranteed they will have a huge outcry and amount of returns as people try to run their old ".exe" files only to have them fail.

The other option is to have emulation and then people will wonder why their apps run like crap and have a huge backlash.


By Taft12 on 8/23/2011 12:18:36 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
If they do it right, combine Windows 8 on tablets, desktops and laptops and integrate their XBL arcade market with Windows phone and tablets running windows 8 they can propel in market share at lightning speed. With the arrival of Ultrabooks people will undoubtedly want unified experience across the board and honestly,Microsoft is the only company that can deliver this on a large scale.


Microsoft is not the only company that can deliver this - like it or not, Apple delivers it TODAY.

Also can we please dial the hyperbole level down a couple of notches Mr. "propel in market share at lightning speed". Thanks.


reviewed or removed?
By kleinma on 8/22/2011 2:07:35 PM , Rating: 1
HP courteously reviewed itself from the market, to webOS fans' chagrin. The departure leaves Microsoft, RIM, Apple, and Google as the only remaining major OS makers.




RE: reviewed or removed?
By MrTeal on 8/22/2011 2:28:38 PM , Rating: 2
I prefer recused in this case. Sure, it doesn't make as much sense as removed, but it's such a nice sounding word.


RE: reviewed or removed?
By johnsonx on 8/23/2011 12:59:08 PM , Rating: 2
but there was nothing courteous about it!


Remember that the market is now much bigger
By BZDTemp on 8/22/2011 4:41:04 PM , Rating: 2
Everyone and his aunt now buys smartphones so while RIM may have lost with regards to market share it's not like they are not selling phones.

I can't see why there should not be room for some big players and some smaller more specialized ones like RIM.




By Pirks on 8/22/2011 4:53:13 PM , Rating: 2
"The BlackBerry has 40% smartphone market share in 2009, but total smartphones in the US as a percentage of all cell phones was only 19%. So RIM had 40% of a 19% market. Fast forward to 2011. Smartphones now account for 40% of all cell phones in the US. And RIM's share is down to 24.7%. If I was running a business selling smartphones, I'd prefer 24.7% of 40% over 40% of 19% everyday of the week. "


RIM is not dying anytime sooner
By vision33r on 8/22/2011 9:53:57 PM , Rating: 2
If you look at the smartphone battles, the fastest ones that are dying are the battles within Android. Competition is fierce and Motorola is sinking fast. Had Google not stepped in, Motorola would dipped into the single digits with the Droid being their only good seller. The Atrix is a sales failure so far has not beaten any of the Samsung or HTC similar models.

Blackberry will be around, because as a contractor every firm I've worked for is still on Blackberry for manageability and all companies are providing their employees is email and nothing else. They are not interested in smartphone fanboy wars. In the business world email is all that matters.

RIM still holds a dominant 70% lead in the business world and nobody even the WSJ can dispute or dare to put out any research numbers. The sky is not falling for RIM. They are simply losing end users but not businesses.

It's back to the roots for RIM, business as usual.




By robinthakur on 8/23/2011 6:42:37 AM , Rating: 2
I would disagree. My old employer (a financial institution)stopped using BB's and started rolling out iPhone4's to all staff after the head of support got one. I have been issued with a work iPad2 and have full access to my work email on that and my personal IP4 at my current place of employment. Things are finally changing in the business space, sadly for RIM.


RIM only sells in the US?
By Ushio01 on 8/22/2011 4:04:26 PM , Rating: 2
Since when does failure in the US equal the death of a company?

RIM sales are still growing year on year globally and that's all that matters.




??
By Dr of crap on 8/22/11, Rating: -1
RE: ??
By JasonMick (blog) on 8/22/2011 2:05:45 PM , Rating: 5
quote:
Do we really care who is giving us the operating system on cell phones?
I mean really?
Does it matter to anyone other than the companies involved?

Errr... there are significant differences between iOS, Android, and Windows Phone 7 including very different ideologies about selection, app market strategy, litigation, etc.

I think anyone who likes smart phones would care.

quote:
I could care less who makes or has it's OS on my cell.
The big things are does it work -
Calls and text go through when I send them
Reception anywhere I want it
Don't charge me a second mortgage to have a cell plan
Doesn't charge me over $40 to get the phone

Thats it! Otherwise I give not a sh$t who the phone comes from

And yet you come and read and comment on an article about smart phones. Thank you for sharing that you have no opinion on smart phones. We were all really wondering if you had one. Well we can check that off our list!


RE: ??
By jbs181818 on 8/22/2011 2:09:06 PM , Rating: 3
why are you reading not only this article, but this website at all? If you are a phone call and txt only person who doesn't care how their gadgets work, nothing on this website will interest you...


RE: ??
By Dr of crap on 8/22/11, Rating: -1
RE: ??
By jbs181818 on 8/22/2011 3:47:59 PM , Rating: 3
This site quite obviously caters to more then just cell phone news. My point was that if you "could care less" about the operating software on your phone, you probably feel the same way about most other tech products. Also, why would you ever comment on an article without reading the article? Trolling?


RE: ??
By NellyFromMA on 8/22/2011 2:59:44 PM , Rating: 2
Fact: Apple and Google want you to care because there is a HUGE demographic of people out there who respond to brands almost with regard for any common sense at all. best example without bashing Apple directly is to look at the US auto market and the various names/brands auto makers use to target different demographics. The VAST majority of people don't care, they just want a brand that make them FEEL good. That is, until the start seeing why, when it comes to technology, they are only limiting their options by allowing a near equal market split with no truly important differences between them.

On the other side of the equeation I think are more the type of people who come here; That is, techies, if you will.

Mostly, techies are just enamored with mobile compute, in general.

So, no, most people couldn't care less, as long as they feel like they have the best.

On the other hand, you have tech-snobs who reply like most of the above. ;)


RE: ??
By Ramstark on 8/22/2011 7:40:11 PM , Rating: 2
Actually is a little more about economics and the whole industry in which we "techies" work...you know, maybe your husband or your uncle live from this too, so, before dismissing all the content of DT as "techie's rubbish" you could pay attention to what pays the bills...
On the other hand, iOS and Android will continue playing the "I kill you" legal game while WP7 takes over this Christmas season...mark my words ;)


RE: ??
By robinthakur on 8/23/2011 6:44:20 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
while WP7 takes over this Christmas season...mark my words ;)


Isn't that what they said last Christmas?


RE: ??
By NellyFromMA on 8/24/2011 8:07:40 AM , Rating: 2
Are you stupid? My husband or uncle? There's so much stupidity here I don't even know where to begin. You are more or less whats wrong with the internet and perhaps society. I didn't dismiss 'techies as a whole' because then I would be dismissing myself. I probably have never read a comment from someone as insecure as you and it kind of makes me need a refill on my coffee. What a tool


RE: ??
By Dr of crap on 8/23/2011 10:30:34 AM , Rating: 2
This is one of those statements on the very bottom of those posts and I agree -

"A lot of people pay zero for the cellphone ... That's what it's worth." -- Apple Chief Operating Officer Timothy Cook "

And on top of that I again say - as long as it works and I didn't have to pay over $40 for that phone -

I care not WHO makes it or it's operating system.

It's not going make me healthier or anything important, so why would I care if it's Apple phone or is running WP7. It a phone. I don't care what brand of car I buy as long as it's a good buy and it has what I want inside and under the hood. Then if it's not a lemon I drive it for many many miles. I don't car if it a GM or Honda or whatever. Same for my cell phone.

And don't get me started on Apps. Money wasted and money for the companies offering them. Why do you think the cell phone companies are making so much? Users under 25 buying App after App. Used to be ring tones that brought in the cash.

So no I am not a teen or tween or "young adult" (I use that word only since I don't have another that fits) and I do not care who makes it or who has the opertating system on my cell. If it works and I get reception then I satified.

The fact that you really care that much about your cell phone makers means their marketing is working and your making us ALL over pay for these things!


RE: ??
By Uncle on 8/22/11, Rating: -1
RE: ??
By kmmatney on 8/23/2011 3:01:37 AM , Rating: 1
That's exactly what I used to say....before I got a smartphone.

Mine is free, paid for by work. If it was my own money, I would have a Virgin Mobile Android phone, on the $25/mo plan for unlimited data and texts. That's worked out perfect for the wife.


RE: ??
By Dr of crap on 8/24/2011 8:37:13 AM , Rating: 2
Thank you for that.

Pretty much sums up my attitude toward cell phones and the carriers!


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