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Print E-mail del.icio.us 26 comment(s) - last by initialised.. on Feb 14 at 9:48 PM

Oh god how I hate you guys, I hate you guys so very, very much

Dear eBay,

Your latest scheme to take the sellers ability to leave negative feedback on buyers away is no less ridiculous than PayPal’s policy of taking money from a sellers account before you ever ask for particulars on a dispute.

It becomes more and more clear to many sellers on eBay that you really don’t care about us. How could you when your system is so heavily weighted towards the buyers and pillages the slim profits most sellers endure to be competitive on their auctions. Let me give an example, I once sold a video card to a guy in the UK. First he gripes because he didn’t get the card fast enough, which he can blame customs for, not me.

Then he gets the card and tries to extort a partial refund from me under the threat of leaving negative feedback because delivery took so long. All a buyer has to do is complain and you take money from the seller. Sometimes once the money is turned over to the buyer in the instance where you finally side with them (fairly or not), the item in question never makes it back to the seller leaving the buyer with the item and the money. And now I can’t even leave a negative comment for that.

At least with the old system, I could threaten to leave the buyer negative feedback. What about the ability for sellers to warn other sellers when a deadbeat has a tendency to bid and not pay for items? Sellers often don’t leave buyers bad feedback for fear of negative feedback themselves.  I am all for reassessing your system because there is much to be desired in how things operate now, but taking the little power a seller has away is certainly not the way to do it. All you have accomplished with this move is to give every hater and nit-picky buyer on eBay permission to hose a seller as they see fit without fear of retribution.

Lots of people like to think that Microsoft has a monopoly, but if you ask me eBay is the biggest monopoly around. EBay has us by the throat coming and going. If you want to sell something online, you really have little other choice than eBay and if you want to use eBay you really have no other choice than PayPal. All I can say is please, please someone (Google!) offer us a real alternative to eBay and its draconian policies and PayPal.

I’m not alone in my feelings. CNN Money reports that five long time eBay sellers feel the same way I do and are jumping the eBay ship over the new fees and lost ability to leave negative feedback. When eBay first reported they were cutting fees it seemed like a good thing until you start to get into the fine print. Once you really look at it eBay claims it reduced fees, which it did for the listing of an item with a reduction from $0.20 to $0.15.

However, what eBay didn’t really talk about was the fact that it was increasing final value fees from 10% to 12% for inventory in eBay stores. For sellers with high final values that represents a significant increase in their expenses to operate on eBay. That means that an item in an eBay store that sells for $500 final value will see an additional $10 in eBay fees under the new schedule.

The saddest part is as much as many sellers admonish eBay and PayPal, they will still sell on eBay. What other choice do we really have?

Sincerely,
Shane McGlaun



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No other choice?
By JasonMick (blog) on 2/8/2008 12:39:48 PM , Rating: 2
There's Amazon.com and Craigslist!

That said ebay I agree ebays moves are pretty seller unfriendly. Especially the higher rates at the lower end that pretty much cripple video game/cd reselling on eBay.




RE: No other choice?
By Shane McGlaun (blog) on 2/8/2008 12:54:03 PM , Rating: 2
Craigslist hugely depends on your area, it is dead in mine making that no real alternative. I've tried Amazon before and found it lacking, but that's me personally. However, I would bet lots of eBay sellers feel the same way.


RE: No other choice?
By KristopherKubicki (blog) on 2/8/2008 1:12:26 PM , Rating: 2
Not to mention 90% of Craigslist is pretty much a scam ...


RE: No other choice?
By therealnickdanger on 2/8/2008 1:47:46 PM , Rating: 2
Don't forget rape and murder!

Minneapolis CL rules - very few scams and LOTS of stuff at great prices. Then again, we Minnesotans love our garage sales...


RE: No other choice?
By Joz on 2/9/2008 10:03:11 AM , Rating: 2
The Twin Cities is the best area for craigslisting.

I can vouch for that, I have sold alot of stuff, and bought alot of stuff using it, never been scammed or... raped.


RE: No other choice?
By Dasickninja on 2/12/2008 7:40:24 AM , Rating: 2
What about murdered?


RE: No other choice?
By SilthDraeth on 2/12/2008 11:18:04 AM , Rating: 5
I got murdered once just by looking at craigslist.


RE: No other choice?
By SoCalBoomer on 2/8/2008 1:21:54 PM , Rating: 2
That being said, while it's unfair, so are the way the entire feedback system works. I've been blackmailed with negative feedback far more often by sellers than by buyers. Sellers are "supposed" to give feedback upon payment and buyers are "supposed" to give feedback upon receipt of goods. Never seems to happen that way.

If ebay were only an auction site, it might have sufficed, but now that entire stores are only using ebay . . . well, now the stores have the power and it hurts us little guys selling our little stuff.

I saw a suggestion for a blind feedback system - which I think would be best! Just make it blind - I can't see what you say, you can't see what I say, until we BOTH give feedback.


RE: No other choice?
By dever on 2/8/2008 3:52:14 PM , Rating: 2
I like the blind feedback idea.

However, the idea is that EBay becomes VERY buyer-friendly. I'm sure that's what they're trying to do... attrack more customers. And if you do that, you then make the sellers beter off.

Make the sellers happy by making the buyers happy... I'm sure that's the goal. I can't really comment on the efficacy of their strategies.


RE: No other choice?
By onelittleindian on 2/10/2008 2:40:21 PM , Rating: 3
Out of all my purchases, I've been ripped off twice on Ebay. And both times my negative feedback barely hurt the seller, but their retaliatory feedback ruined my rating, due to their being so much fewer entries on mine.


RE: No other choice?
By TheDoc9 on 2/8/2008 7:47:05 PM , Rating: 2
They're probably doing this to rake in some extra cash before google releases an auction site, which is probably 99% inevitable esp. with this out cry. Of course, the execs also should realize that every monopoly that has done this in the past has collapsed eventually. At&t is the only one that's recovered and rebuilding itself, from what I remimber. There may be others, but it's more likely that in ten years we'll be buying from gbay.


RE: No other choice?
By Polynikes on 2/9/2008 1:24:57 PM , Rating: 2
Ebay sucks now. Most items I've looked at aren't much (maybe $5 or $10) cheaper than other places I can buy them online, so really there's no point in using it anymore. It's easier to just go to a store and buy it right off, where I know I'm doing business with a trusted organization.


RE: No other choice?
By pixelslave on 2/14/2008 8:50:26 AM , Rating: 2
Amazon's commission can be as high as 15% and they charges commission on your shipping also. For people who sell high priced item, it costs a lot more than the old eBay.

On the other hand, the new fee structure is actually an improvement to lower priced items -- IMO, I don't mind they increase the final sale fee, but I hope they get rid of the listing fee altogether!


thank the sellers who abuse the feedback system
By bohhad on 2/8/2008 2:24:42 PM , Rating: 2
i can see how this would upset you. it's not ebay's fault in my opinion however, it's all these sellers who hold their feedback hostage until you give them a positive feedback. i think it was stated earlier on here, feedback should be left for the buyers once their funds arrive/clear whatever. but most don't.




By Shane McGlaun (blog) on 2/8/2008 3:35:17 PM , Rating: 4
Honestly, I think the only feedback of value to buyers and sellers is the negative feedback. We should forgo feedback altogether unless something was grossly wrong with the transaction. And I'm not talking about something being damaged in shipment and some wanker giving you a neg rather than simply waiting for the insurance to pay off and demanding a refund. There is abuse on both sides of the feedback fence. Now that I think about it there would be a lot less anxiety on both sides if there simply was no feedback viewable because all feedback is of dubious value IMHO.


By zombiexl on 2/8/2008 9:24:42 PM , Rating: 2
I totally agree..

I had a bad experience with a seller when buying an Ibanez 7-Stirng (not at all as described and broken to boot). The seller gave me the run around, paypal refused to do anything and ebay was even more useless. In the end the USPS foudn that there was no damage to the box and they refused insurance. All the delays and run arounds caused me to miss the deadline to do a chargeback with my CC company.

I paid within 1 minute of winning the auction, but I didnt get any feedback at all. I never left bad feedback for fear of ruining my perfect feedback record with a seller feedback retaliation.

So in the end... Paypal = useless, Ebay = useless and I was left with a broken (not close to new) guitar that I never did get fixed.


May kinda work...
By SlipSlideBazoom on 2/8/2008 1:59:51 PM , Rating: 1
Really, unless a buyer doesn't pay, what is there to leave negative feedback about? Their dissatisfaction with their purchase? That doesn't seem to be what the feedback system is in place for.

Your customer was unhappy because of the slow shipping (whether it was your fault or not) and would likely have left you negative feedback with the new policy in place. That would have been one negative mark on your record.

However, in this system, I suspect that things will even out, with good sellers like yourself having only a few negatives from unreasonable idiots such as the one you mentioned and bad sellers having an avalanche of negative feedback raining down upon them. Every seller's feedback rating will decrease under this system, so as I see it, things are pretty equitable. And if you can offer a reasonable explanation in reply to each bit of negative feedback, the more prudent buyers will likely see that and will not have a problem purchasing items from you.




RE: May kinda work...
By maven81 on 2/8/2008 2:07:35 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Really, unless a buyer doesn't pay, what is there to leave negative feedback about?


Seriously? How about never replying to your e-mails or generally having horrible communication? Promising to pay you quickly and taking forever? Accusing you of things you didn't do?
I've never given people negative feedback over this, but I probably should have. There have been far too many cases when I was on the edge of my seat with no idea if I would get paid or not until some miracle happened and I finally heard from the buyer. (who then have an invariably odd excuse like they were out of town, or they needed to get paid...)


Don't forget PayPal!
By maven81 on 2/8/2008 1:54:53 PM , Rating: 2
I completely agree, though I would add that PayPal is part of what makes e-bay so horrible.

Recently they locked my account, due to what they claimed was "suspicious activity". No explanation of what they meant by that was ever given, instead they directed me to their "resolution center". In the resolution center they requested a ton of very personal information, which they never asked for while I was signing up! Including a state issued ID, (Driver's license), an extra verified bank account, tracking numbers for everything I had shipped recently (which I didn't even have since I used USPS without tracking) etc.
I tried to point out that they were asking for a ridiculous amount of information without ever giving me a reason... that e-mail was ignored.
Then I pointed out that if they suspected some sort of fraud the most logical thing to do was to call me, like all normal credit card companies would do. Instead they were relying exclusively on e-mail! If someone stole my identity surely they would have access to my e-mail account? No reply to that either...
So I called them... All they did was once again suggest that I go to the resolution center. and give them all the private information they wanted.
At that point I really had no choice because by locking my account they were taking my money hostage, and I may have never gotten it back.
After a month and a half of faxing documents and speaking to several people they finally unlocked my account. Still never telling me why it was locked in the first place.

As far as I'm concerned the only bigger scum is Fed-Ex, who dropped a package I shipped, then refused to pay insurance, despite being provided with before and after pictures of the damage. This left a pissed buyer with a broken computer, who wondered if I sent him one that didn't work, forcing me to refund his money, and take a 600 dollar loss.




needs refinement
By tastyratz on 2/10/2008 10:18:31 AM , Rating: 2
Their feedback change makes sense. More seller negative left feedback is retalitory than anything else. I believe the seller should be able to leave the buyer a negative feedback HOWEVER it should only be something they can do if they open a dispute with ebay. This protects the buyer because 99% of the time its the seller screw ups worth negatives.




Amen
By MADAOO7 on 2/10/2008 11:34:08 AM , Rating: 2
Your comments couldn't be said better. eBay is out of control with their fees. O wow, you saved me under a dime in listing fees, but you made the FVF 3% higher for products under $25. I think all of eBay's executives should have to be power sellers first then they would understand what sellers are going through.




If only they would earn the money!
By gemsurf on 2/11/2008 5:35:16 PM , Rating: 2
I once was a power seller and my monthly ebay bill was between $2500 and $3000 which sadly got to the point where it dwarfed my profit. I haven't sold anything on ebay for about a year now because of their (and paypal's) cavalier attitudes. As a seller I bent over backwards to satisfy a buyer and luckily had only one out of nearly 500 ratings as negative. No seller feedback would be fine with me, if I could count on them to protect me from rip off and unfair buyers. They wont intervene at all and I feel that if they're gonna make that kind of money off of me, I need some service from them other than the ability to display my wares! I've been drooling at the thought of google jumping in with a viable alternative! Can't wait. In the meantime, I have chosen other avenues to sell my stuff and am making less money, but not working or risking nearly as much either! RIP Ebay! Your day is coming!




Another point of view
By AnnihilatorX on 2/12/2008 3:51:35 PM , Rating: 2
I think the feedback system is totally flawed currently. It's not easy to fix, and it's certainly not a fix to remove seller's feedback rights.

I seldom sells on ebay. but once a seller did not refund my faulty DOA product. It's been common practice for seller to not leave feedback until they get positive feedback from buyers. I left him a negative feedback, but then got retaliated. He tried to setup a mutual withdrawal request which I happily ignored. I don't care I get a negative feedback. Though he has like 1000 positive ones and I've got 50.




Feedback is broken.
By initialised on 2/14/2008 9:48:21 PM , Rating: 2
The mechanism should be:
Seller leaves feedback + when payment is received or feedback - when payment is not received by agreed date.
Buyer leaves feedback + or 0 on receipt of goods or feedback - if not received by agreed date or unsatisfactory item.
This stops sellers preventing buyers from leaving - for bad service and hopefully weeds out bad sellers and makes feedback meaningful.

As it is/was buyers can be blackmailed. If sellers use adequate tracking of serials and delivery they have nothing to fear.




Hahaha...
By iFX on 2/9/08, Rating: 0
RE: Hahaha...
By iFX on 2/11/2008 3:58:05 PM , Rating: 1
What can I say, the truth hurts.


"There's no chance that the iPhone is going to get any significant market share. No chance." -- Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer

















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