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Among the new features of Windows 7 will be exciting touch capabilities that will alows users to drag and resize windows with a flick of the fingers, similar to the iPhone's interface.  (Source: Gizmondo)
Microsoft looks to learn from the successes and failures of Vista to deliver its strongest OS yet

Windows Vista was supposed to usher in a new era for Windows operating systems, employing a stylish aero graphical user interface and offering many improvements over its previous version. 

However for all its hits, the OS has certainly had its misses.  Initial hardware support for the 64-bit home version was bad leading to multiple incompatibilities, while the more "user-safe" interface with its many prompts (which some don't realize can be disabled) left many annoyed.  Further, the multiple SKUs left many wondering what they were buying, though in Microsoft's defense, the software giant did document the differences between versions extensively online, and worked with retailers to provide this information.

The company was also slammed with a major class action suit, after its executives admitted lying to consumers about computers' "Vista readiness" under pressure from a hungry Intel looking to sell chipsets.  Said one executive, unhappily, "We set ourselves up."

For all its problems, though, Vista delivered a rather solid experience for the majority of users.  Its improved search features, improved office suite, and more interaction-friendly graphics interface have all pleased customers. 


Microsoft is pushing ahead strong on its plans to release its next generation operating system, Windows 7.  Whereas Vista took over 5 years to release -- XP released October '01, Vista's retail release was in January '07 -- Windows 7 will reach customers in a mere 3 years, according to Microsoft.  Leaks also reveal that the Redmond-based company sent a test version of Windows 7 known as Milestone 1 (M1) to select partners in January 2008.

In an email, a Microsoft spokesman, confirmed that 2010 was the correct Windows 7 date -- three years after the consumer Vista release.  He stated, "We are currently in the planning stages for Windows 7 and development is scoped to three years from Windows Vista Consumer GA. The specific release date will be determined once the company meets its quality bar for release."

Microsoft may have already reached Milestone 2 (M2) in the development, which it had projected to reach in March/April, though the company refused to comment on the progress.  Microsoft, under extended supervision by the U.S. government for past antitrust abuses, submitted a copy of Windows 7 to the Technical Committee – the group of technology experts appointed by the Department of Justice and the other plaintiffs in Microsoft's U.S. antitrust settlement. 

The committee released a status update on this examination.  The committee states, "In addition, the [Technical Committee] has begun to review Windows 7 itself.  Microsoft recently supplied the TC with a build of Windows 7, and is discussing TC testing going forward. The TC will conduct middleware-related tests on future builds of Windows 7."

The committee apparently shared an undisclosed issue they already found and would like Microsoft to fix. 

Microsoft has disclosed little about how Windows 7 builds on Windows Vista.  Bill Gates did state in an interview that it will provide revolutionary advances in voice recognition and other natural interfaces.  The OS will also interface with Windows Live Wave 3, the latest version of Microsoft's email/messaging/utility suite



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I don't understand this Apple crap
By pauldovi on 3/13/2008 3:43:37 PM , Rating: 4
Why is everything compared to Apple.

"Similar to the iPhone"

Well god damn, Apple isn't the first company with a touch sensitive LCD device.




RE: I don't understand this Apple crap
By Etsp on 3/13/2008 3:57:50 PM , Rating: 4
What would you prefer? That they compare it to Blackberries?
(If you don't get it, think fruits.)


RE: I don't understand this Apple crap
By JoshuaBuss on 3/17/2008 12:56:10 AM , Rating: 2
I'm pretty tired of hearing about Apple as well. They're only big in mp3 player land, so if an article doesn't have to do with mp3 players or genuinely interesting new apple hardware I just don't understand why it's mentioned.

Marketshare-wise, it juts doesn't make sense to worry about apple that much. so what if a few people like their stuff. a few people REALLY like toshiba laptops or open-source OSes but we don't have to listen to it all the time.. >_<


By Pirks on 3/17/2008 3:23:08 AM , Rating: 1
Marketshare-wise, it just doesn't make sense to worry about those puny personal computers that much. So what if a few people like their stuff. A few people REALLY like those toy computers like Altair/Commodore/Sinclair/etc but we big IBM mainframe guys don't have to listen to them all the time. Let them babble about their puny "PC" toys to take over the market in future, of course everyone knows that market share is everything and we mainframe makers control the market, and will control it forever.

(C) some IBM internal talks from the last century


RE: I don't understand this Apple crap
By UNCjigga on 3/18/08, Rating: -1
RE: I don't understand this Apple crap
By Pirks on 3/18/2008 11:44:21 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
HFS Plus is a crap filesystem that even older NTFS beats hands down for security and performance
The new Mac file system is ZFS, which is read only for now and has not been fully integrated into Mac OS X yet, it's in the form of the developer preview now. Unlike non-existent WinFS that never went further than another empty MS babble, ZFS is real, and it owns crappy NTFS easily (not that NTFS is crappy by itself, but compared to ZFS it's a pathetic joke)


By UNCjigga on 3/18/2008 11:52:18 AM , Rating: 2
I don't care about unreleased features. If its not in release, it doesn't exist. Everyone thought ZFS would make it in to Leopard, but it didn't. Until it comes standard on every new Mac, Apple is beat on the filesystem front.


By djkrypplephite on 3/18/2008 4:26:34 PM , Rating: 2
He uses the iPhone as an example because that's what most people will associate with as a common multi-touch piece of equipment. Stop with the Apple hate, get over it.


By napalmjack on 3/13/2008 3:58:02 PM , Rating: 2
Huzzah, good sir.


By beyazkeyat on 3/13/2008 4:05:55 PM , Rating: 5
Maybe because the article was written by an Apple fanboy ;)

Just saying.


RE: I don't understand this Apple crap
By Pirks on 3/13/08, Rating: 0
RE: I don't understand this Apple crap
By Brigandier on 3/13/2008 5:20:11 PM , Rating: 5
You've been making that comparison a lot lately, but I don't think it really holds water. It's more like Diesel vs. Petrol engines, as there can be very svelte Windows PC's. It's just a difference in preference, anyway, you are not luxury for buying a Mac, you are luxurious because you spent a good deal of money on a computer. Macs are not inherently better, nor are they worse than Windows PC's, they are just different.


RE: I don't understand this Apple crap
By Pirks on 3/13/08, Rating: -1
RE: I don't understand this Apple crap
By Brigandier on 3/13/2008 5:55:29 PM , Rating: 5
Or you can just get a Cadillac with all those features, even though it is still GM. Or perhaps you want a Corvette, a sexy powerful sports car that is quite fast. You have that thinness and power...to surf the web and watch movies? You can get a very nice WIndows 17 incher and actually enjoy games, and just as much performance as that Mac. Sure, some other features aren't up to snuff, but Corvettes were never meant for taking the family out. It's a trade-off, just because you see a back lit keyboard as the be-all end-all trait for luxury, does not mean others do as well. Great, we get you like Macs, but that doesn't mean they are superior to all Windows products.


RE: I don't understand this Apple crap
By Pirks on 3/13/08, Rating: -1
RE: I don't understand this Apple crap
By Brigandier on 3/13/2008 6:26:39 PM , Rating: 5
WHo is babbling about Crysis? I didn't even mention it, actually. And Falcon Northwest(A niche maker, for sure) makes a very solid gaming laptop with car quality paint and the bells and whistles to play most games, all with a 4-5 hour battery. A niche product for sure, but no more niche than a 17 inch $2800 laptop, being realistic the most you see people having is the 13 Inch Macbook(my sister even has one), which is a very niche product. I have never said Apple is bad or sub par and Windows better, I've just said Macs are not the only luxury computer. And anyone that spends $2800 dollars on a computer, be it Mac or PC, has probably just purchased himself a "luxury" computer, and they've probably purchased it according to their definition of luxury.

I am no fanboy, I am a realist, Mac is not the only luxury, and it is not luxury by default, that is all I am saying.


RE: I don't understand this Apple crap
By Pirks on 3/13/08, Rating: -1
RE: I don't understand this Apple crap
By Brigandier on 3/13/2008 6:57:26 PM , Rating: 3
A 17 Inch 7 pound notebook is not ultra-portable, it may be sexy and powerful, but ultra-portable it is not.


RE: I don't understand this Apple crap
By Pirks on 3/13/08, Rating: -1
RE: I don't understand this Apple crap
By Brigandier on 3/13/2008 7:58:48 PM , Rating: 3
That would make it MORE portable, not ultra-portable. Ultra-portable is an entire different class of notebook all together, my friend.


RE: I don't understand this Apple crap
By Pirks on 3/13/08, Rating: -1
RE: I don't understand this Apple crap
By Brigandier on 3/14/2008 12:25:38 AM , Rating: 5
What defines ultraportable to you then? Being able to carry it? Well, I can carry a desktop and monitor, but it isn't exactly ultraportable. I can also carry 17 inch notebook that ways 12 pounds, but that isn't ultraportable? You are completely allowed to say that the MBP is one of the most portable 17 inch notebooks, but it is hardly ultraportale, as it has a 17 inch screen and weighs 7 pounds. I am not a MBP hater, nor am I a Windows fanboy, I am simply a man with a wallet that makes different economic decisions than you. I doubt I'd spend my 2800 dollars the same way you would, but that doesn't mean you are Mr. Luxury.


RE: I don't understand this Apple crap
By Pirks on 3/14/08, Rating: -1
RE: I don't understand this Apple crap
By rebturtle on 3/16/2008 1:47:02 AM , Rating: 4
Would it hurt your ego too terribly much to realize that Apple doesn't build hardware - they brand it? They take a nice idea, make it pretty, lock it down with their software, and overprice it. Your fabulous Apple Air was in fact designed and built by Intel. Mr. Jobs simply gets all the glory.

Much like a Lexus is an overpriced....Toyota.


RE: I don't understand this Apple crap
By Pirks on 3/16/08, Rating: -1
RE: I don't understand this Apple crap
By nglessner on 3/13/2008 11:52:54 PM , Rating: 3
Someone on the Internet is wrong! OMG

http://xkcd.com/386/


By rebturtle on 3/16/2008 1:53:35 AM , Rating: 2
ROTFL! I'm gonna have to bookmark that one for sure!


By cscpianoman on 3/13/2008 7:04:53 PM , Rating: 2
OK, you're done. Point made, move on.


RE: I don't understand this Apple crap
By CrimsonFrost on 3/17/2008 10:41:23 AM , Rating: 2
Is no one realizing how uninformed this guy is? Pirks, my friend, you do realize for all the "Wintel" jibberish you're speaking of, the MacBook Air uses.... AN INTEL CORE 2 DUO CPU. Clocked at... lower specs than "Wintel" notebooks, why? Because the Air can't handle cooling because it wanted to be so "different", so it relies almost purely on passive air cooling.

Ya know seriously, your ignorance is what makes all of the PC users hate Mac users, they KNOW for a fact that your hardware isn't better, and ever since Apple started using Intel CPUs and chipsets, they've actually been selling the same PC crap for more money... What's the deal with that? Sometimes they even sell second rate PC crap for more money, like your example of an 8600 mobile GPU(laughs).

A backlit keyboard? Seriously... that's your only correct point in your entire spill of refuse you've so callously dumped upon this message board. Yes, Macs are nice, Apple makes some really great products, but you sir, no squat about any of that, apparently.


RE: I don't understand this Apple crap
By Pirks on 3/17/08, Rating: -1
RE: I don't understand this Apple crap
By CrimsonFrost on 3/17/2008 12:49:52 PM , Rating: 2
Oh, ok. So what exactly makes the Mac Book Pro better than the PC equivalent? Hypothetically speaking, if I were a customer in an Apple Store, with same the IT knowledge and background that I have now. How would you sell me on a MPB(mind you I am not at all opposed to the laptops, I think they're wonderful machines and have actually been looking at getting one), but how would you convince me that this laptop is better than the Windows Vista eqivalent, or XP if we need to go there.

Remember I said that it is still assumed I know what I am doing with the Windows machine, and annoyances like UAC in Vista are null to me because I can get around them. So why's it better for a person like me, or another tech savvy person from these boards? I am serious here, I am not ribbing you or provoking.


RE: I don't understand this Apple crap
By Pirks on 3/17/08, Rating: -1
RE: I don't understand this Apple crap
By CrimsonFrost on 3/17/2008 2:02:24 PM , Rating: 2
Well, since I wouldn't really be playing a game like say, Crysis on a laptop in the first place, we'll leave that aside. TBH though, I agree with most of your points, except the virus bit, if Mac's continue to gain ground in the PC market, it's only a matter of time before viruses are written for them. Virus writers are ego-maniacs, and you can't flaunt your e-wang on a Mac because it would go for all intensive purposes, unnoticed. The rest of your pitch works though, and if I were using the laptop as just a standard portable computer, it'd probably be ideal for me, BUT and this is a big one, the price comparison for a Mac that is 1,999 vs a Windows Vista laptop of the same price is not justfiable to me, that's my main issue


RE: I don't understand this Apple crap
By Pirks on 3/17/08, Rating: -1
RE: I don't understand this Apple crap
By CrimsonFrost on 3/17/2008 3:38:01 PM , Rating: 2
Bah, I meant comparing 1,999 MPB to a 1,999 Vista laptop. Hardware-wise, taking the Vista PC makes more sense to me, I'd get a lot more bang for my buck. I wrote that wrong the first time.


RE: I don't understand this Apple crap
By Pirks on 3/17/08, Rating: -1
By UNCjigga on 3/18/2008 11:55:25 AM , Rating: 1
Pirks has been talking about the MacBook Pro, so who doesn't know WTF they're talking about? That would be YOU! Why bring the AIR into this? That's right, because you're an Apple hateboi that can't make a valid point. The MacBook Air is actually clocked HIGHER than any other "Wintel" thin & light of comparable size and weight currently on the market. Take that to the bank. You're done here.


RE: I don't understand this Apple crap
By Nekrik on 3/13/2008 6:20:36 PM , Rating: 3
Wasn't it Apple who had the 'Think Different!' marketing campaign?


By mmcdonalataocdotgov on 3/14/2008 12:00:08 PM , Rating: 3
IBM was "Think"

Apple "Think Different..." meaning from IBM clones.


RE: I don't understand this Apple crap
By pauldovi on 3/13/2008 7:55:13 PM , Rating: 1
If you add enough constraints, anything is true.

I know you are trying to justify the ridiculous amount of money you spend on your laptop by telling how cool it is. However you can get the same performance out of a Lenovo Thinkpad for about 40% less (or more) than these MacBooks. Yeah sure Lenovo doesn't make 17" notebooks, but that is because a 17" notebook is a joke.


RE: I don't understand this Apple crap
By Pirks on 3/13/08, Rating: -1
RE: I don't understand this Apple crap
By pauldovi on 3/14/2008 2:15:42 AM , Rating: 2
Thinkpads are crap is what you are saying.

Thats funny.


RE: I don't understand this Apple crap
By Pirks on 3/14/08, Rating: -1
RE: I don't understand this Apple crap
By ImSpartacus on 3/14/2008 3:58:27 PM , Rating: 1
There's a point at which someone can get the best performance for the best price. It applies to almost everything, cars, computers, everything.

You can't honestly argue that there is a totally linear price performance line that runs from the low end to high end of something. It just doesn't exist.

You have to accept that your stupid little Lexus isn't worth the money that you are paying for it. It's much more economical to get something in the midrange of cars. Don't get a Kia or something else on the ultra low end, but something in the middle.

Why don't we switch it up to something other than cars? graphics cards. An 8800GT stock can be had for about 200$ (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N8...
An 8800GTX can be had for 320$ (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N8...

The GTX barely outperforms the GT, but costs a hundred dollars more.

If you don't like that analogy, try 8800GTX versus 8800Ultra at the prices when the ultra came out (~800$ vs ~550$). The Ultra was more or less an overclocked GTX.


RE: I don't understand this Apple crap
By Pirks on 3/14/08, Rating: -1
RE: I don't understand this Apple crap
By Brigandier on 3/14/2008 5:55:07 PM , Rating: 2
A $2800 17" notebook isn't mass market, it is a niche product.


RE: I don't understand this Apple crap
By Pirks on 3/14/08, Rating: -1
RE: I don't understand this Apple crap
By ImSpartacus on 3/16/2008 10:25:55 AM , Rating: 2
I agree many Apple products are "premium" products versus niches, but when the mass, non-techie market sees a 2000$ that seems to be identical to that 700$ dell's "numbers" they get skeptical. Yes, they will say "Wow, this is really nice high quality", but they will ultimately pass it by for something more cost effective.

If the mass market doesn't know much about PC's, then they won't use their PC enough to justify that Apple shine. Apple makes good products, but that is also their flaw to achieving mass adoption (although they are getting better fast, and will be in the fast lane soon).


RE: I don't understand this Apple crap
By Pirks on 3/16/08, Rating: -1
RE: I don't understand this Apple crap
By gescom on 3/17/2008 9:48:36 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
Keyboard? Check! No Wintel PC laptop has similar keyboard. Screen? Check! No analogs in Wintel world. Weight/thickness? Check! Stuff luke that, you know.


Sorry, but Thinkpad T6x workstations have better keyboard, definitely better display, much better batteries, it's lighter and yet workstation beast. Sure, at the end it's more expensive and not as thick as Apple MBP. Apple machines are ok, but there are still much better out there.


RE: I don't understand this Apple crap
By Pirks on 3/17/08, Rating: -1
RE: I don't understand this Apple crap
By gescom on 3/17/2008 3:53:48 PM , Rating: 2
When I was buying Thinkpad T60p, I was comparing it with Apple MBP:
- T60p IPS (FlexView) screen ( best notebook screen ever I would say )
- workstation graphics ( full OpenGL support )
- 5.6 pounds comparing to MBP 5.4 pounds ( +- 0.2 pounds, well I wouldn't call 5.4 pounds lightweight ;)
- battery life ( 9-cell )
- keyboard ( hm, you have to try it yourself )
- thickness? ( 1.2 inch comparing to MPB 1 inch )

At the end it was clear what to choose.


RE: I don't understand this Apple crap
By Pirks on 3/17/08, Rating: -1
RE: I don't understand this Apple crap
By djc208 on 3/14/2008 9:28:07 AM , Rating: 3
You keep trying to compare a Lexus to a GM for the whole MBP vs. Wintel laptop. In fact your really comparing a Chevy to a Cadilac. The MBP is just a Mactel. Same CPU/chipset, same HDD, GPU, USB, disk drive as a "standard" windows laptop. You're paying the extra $$$ for a fancier wrapper, a few extra features and a different badge on the front.

You're not buying the Lexus to "our" Corvette, your buying the CTS-V to our Corvette. You get a more comfortable ride and similar performance, but I stil have money for gas and extras. Otherwise they are the same basic vehicle.

Before the Intel switch this analogy might have worked, now it's just a custom PC with a special operating system, kind of like the EEe PC at the other end of the scale.


RE: I don't understand this Apple crap
By Pirks on 3/14/08, Rating: -1
RE: I don't understand this Apple crap
By djc208 on 3/14/2008 2:11:07 PM , Rating: 1
It's not stupidity, and while it might be a little fanboy-ism, so are all of your posts. The point I was trying to make, and my problem with Apple or Lexus or Cadillac etc. is that usually the premium in price doesn't match the extras.

Yes you get a nifty backlit keyboard and an LED screen and the "Apple experience", but that's a lot of money for two extra features (I won't count the apple experience as a feature) compared to an identically configured WinTel machine with a "standard" screen and keyboard.

Most won't deny that the iPhone is slick, or that iPods are good MP3 players, or that OS X has some great features. The problem I have is that it comes at too high a price, both financially and technologically. I don't want to have to drink the Apple cool-aid just to get a nifty touch screen on my phone.


RE: I don't understand this Apple crap
By Pirks on 3/14/08, Rating: -1
RE: I don't understand this Apple crap
By UNCjigga on 3/18/2008 11:49:37 AM , Rating: 1
Your argument makes no sense! Going back to the original "why even mention Apple?" comments, the whole argument was that Apple is a niche player and is thus irrelevant. Pirks made the valid point that Apple shouldn't be considered a niche player, but a premium segment player. There is a difference which I will get to. I don't understand why EVERY SINGLE POST Pirks made has been rated down--again, the Apple hatebois on this forum are just pathetic, worse than even the Apple fanbois!

So what's the difference between a niche player and a premium/luxury player? Let's go back to the car analogy. If you apply your argument against Apple to Cadillac, Lexus, etc., you'd be calling them niche players. Let's run with that for a bit. Next time you're at an airport or book store, take a look at the magazine rack. Now take a look at the automotive magazines. What brand's cars are on the cover? Is it Chevy? Chrysler? Hyundai? Honda and Toyota? Or do you see more covers with BMW, Lexus, Infiniti, Ferrari, Mercedes? If these are niche players, why do they get so much coverage? I'll give you the answer--but you won't like it...

IT'S BECAUSE THAT'S THE STANDARD THAT OTHERS ARE JUDGED BY!

Like it or not, Apple is slowly working itself into this position. Tech geeks can't stand it, but the media and general public who "know nothing" are infatuated with Apple products, for better or worse. Enterprise and IT managers probably don't give a sh*t about Apple, but the general public sure does, and while we might not all buy Apple computers (I sure don't), we may find ourselves looking for features on other PCs that bring us closer to the "Apple experience" (i.e. 17" LED, backlit keyboard, thin and light, metal enclosure--not Apple-exclusive features by any means, but valid comparison points.)


By Pirks on 3/18/2008 12:45:46 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
Enterprise and IT managers probably don't give a sh*t about Apple
I've got a friend in New York, a CIO in a 60000+ people US/British company, they buy Macs by thousands these days, replacing old crappy'n'cheapo Wintel boxes from Dell. The picture he drew me is quite interesting - compared to Wintel offers Macs are not at all much more expensive, they use a mix of Minis and MacBooks, with occasionall addition of more powerful Macs where necessary, their corporate servers running a mix of Linux, Mac OS X and Windows servers (Windows runs Exchange there). The primary reason for switching to Macs, as he puts it, is the decrease in TCO, since they were able to lay off a bunch of Windows support people who were not necessary for supporting Macs. In his company it turned out that the IT staff could be cut about ten times (i.e. 9 out of 10 people will be fired eventually) because 1 person can support about ten times more Macs than Windows boxes. There you go - Macs in the large enterprise, I guess currently they are testing iPhone and provide Apple feedback on what enterprise features they would like to see in their products in the future.

It's very interesting to observe the difference between reality and warped/brainwashed minds of local Wintel zealots. I like to observe this kind of pathology. Call me a pervert, hehehe :))) I just love stupid zealots of all kind and all their mindless babbling and downrating. They love me too as you can see from my rating.


By robinthakur on 3/14/2008 6:42:44 AM , Rating: 2
The thinkpad is just so ugly, I could never bring myself to buy one in a million years. No matter how capable it may or may not be. At least its well built, the rest of the notebooks out there look cheaply made with tacky design. Owning a macbook is like dating a supermodel (umm..I'd imagine) You're constantly in awe at your own ability to afford one as well as the gorgeousness of it :) Its NOT all about performance, something you lot seem not to understand. The Macbook offers up decent performance (I seem to remember that when running vista it used to be [or might still be] one of the most powerful laptops out there) and gets the job done with style. I'm mainly a PC person, but I wouldn't part with my Macbook until I get a new one.


RE: I don't understand this Apple crap
By B3an on 3/13/08, Rating: 0
RE: I don't understand this Apple crap
By Pirks on 3/14/08, Rating: -1
RE: I don't understand this Apple crap
By B3an on 3/14/2008 2:03:08 AM , Rating: 2
It's really sad you're such a fanboy, i guess your've never used a proper high-end computer before with real quality components? If you truely knew anything about computer tech your'd be building your own computers with vastly superior and higher quality components for the same price as Apple stuff, or even less.
But i guess it helps saying all this stuff to make yourself feel more content with your purchase of overpriced-yet-inferior Apple products.


RE: I don't understand this Apple crap
By Pirks on 3/14/08, Rating: -1
RE: I don't understand this Apple crap
By theapparition on 3/14/2008 10:40:22 AM , Rating: 2
There are always certain features that sway a buying decision one way or the other.

For you, you seem to be focused on weight, and backlit keyboard. I've never really researched it, but have no doubt you could find something comparible to the apple.

For me, I care more about graphics and memory. I can get pretty much the same computer, sans weight advantage and backlit keyboard, for less money from Dell, plus with signifigantly upgraded workstation level graphics and memory configurations that are not available from Apple .
(Not to mention that Apple's won't run my software to begin with, oh yeah, they don't run 80% of the software out there under OSX!).
So, point of view defines "vastly superior". From my point of view, my laptop is "vastly superior". For what you do, your may be. There is no be-all-end-all product. Get it?

Enough, Troll fed.....


RE: I don't understand this Apple crap
By Pirks on 3/14/08, Rating: -1
RE: I don't understand this Apple crap
By theapparition on 3/14/2008 2:31:56 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
So your case seems to be weird - you complain about things that MBP 17" can do easily (running Windows, workstation 3D oriented software, having as much memory as you want, etc) and say that it can't do all of this? I don't get it - could you please explain? What exactly MBP 17" can't do for you and why? I thought it has workstation level graphics card inside, as much RAM as you can get in a laptop and it runs all the Windows stuff. What's missing here?

The apple is a consumer level card, they have never offered a workstation card in any of the x86 offerings, even desktops and apples "workstations" (that I am aware of). Workstation level graphics go by the name of Quadro (NVidia) and FireGL (AMD). Sorry, 8600GT is not even in the same ballpark. The differences for engineering software is night and day. Plus, the workstation level laptops let you run far more ram than the "thin" MBP can (not to mention how much Apple would charge for that much ram!). It makes being able to show a 3D CFD animation at a customers facility vs. not even being able to load it or interact with it.

As for your car analogy, comfort is always defined as comfort. I don't think your "wintel" fanboy is changing the definition. They are just putting a different priority on it than you, and for them "pure speed and engine torque" is higher on the list.
No one product is best. I'm glad your happy with your Apple. Apple makes very good hardware, but to dismiss other manufacturers as also-rans is completely wrong.

FYI,
In case you missed it, I also prefer Corvettes over Lexus. So lets agree to disagree.


RE: I don't understand this Apple crap
By Pirks on 3/14/08, Rating: -1
RE: I don't understand this Apple crap
By theapparition on 3/17/2008 7:56:29 AM , Rating: 1
I like how you constantly alter your argument to make your point. Originally you stated that you thought the 8600GT was a workstation card and asked what couldn't be done on it.....now proven wrong, you back down from that and say that the MBP is not for professional use. Which is it? If you really want to include the "Average person" as you classify it, you should include gamers, since that is a huge market for personal computing. The MBP is not the best system for gaming either, since you now need to throw another couple hundred bucks into the price for a copy of Windows.

I'm not knocking the MBP at all. I think it's a very nice piece of hardware. I still don't think it's a good value though, even for your "average person".

And since you like the car analogy, the Lexus is not for the "common guy". Ford and Chevy's and Toyota's are. See the difference. Lexus is a small market brand catering for luxurious image-conscious buyers, not unlike Apple, but will always stay a boutique brand. (Yes I know Lexus is made by Toyota)


RE: I don't understand this Apple crap
By Pirks on 3/17/08, Rating: -1
RE: I don't understand this Apple crap
By theapparition on 3/17/2008 9:47:01 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
They just don't work in the very cheapo/budget segment of the market - that does NOT make them boutique brand, now does it? ;-)

Considering they have less than 5% marketshare, and even less marketshare when considering laptops..........yes, I'd consider them a boutique brand.

Still not sure what your arguing. Everyone has different needs. Apples are great for that minority that wants them. For the 95% of the remaining market, there is a another that fits users needs. Apples are just not the be-all end-all computer brand like your implying.


RE: I don't understand this Apple crap
By Pirks on 3/18/2008 12:23:10 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
Considering they have less than 5% marketshare, and even less marketshare when considering laptops
Sorry, but I have to trash your myths here -> http://macdailynews.com/index.php/weblog/comments/... <- see how Apple incinerates competitors in premium laptop market? Food for though, huh? :))

I never implied that Apple is be-all-end-all, same as Lexus can't be a car for everyone. I said that Apple successfully grabs more and more of a premium computer market with the highest profir margins. Premium computer is NOT EQUAL to be-all-end-all computer, got it?

I said numerous times that exotic car makers don't give a crap about cheapo Chevys, they don't give a crap about your marketshare stuff - same is true for Apple, they don't care about selling gazillion of crappy $300 Wintel PCs, they want sell small amount of quality stuff while keeping prfots FAT, much fatter than any Dell can dream about.


RE: I don't understand this Apple crap
By theapparition on 3/18/2008 11:47:40 AM , Rating: 2
Food for thought? Well, I chewed on it for a few seconds, and this is what I spat out. From your own link:

quote:
"'Accordingly,' Sacconaghi concludes, 'we believe Apple faces a trade-off in its Mac business over the next 2 - 3 years: either lower price (and margin percentage) to sustain share gains, or retain its current price premiums and face slowing unit growth,'" Elmer-Dewitt reports.

Hmmm, guess they're going to have to start going after those $300 Wintel boxes after all.

But at least you admitted that the MBP is not for everyone ;)

I'm done, it's been nice talking with you.


By Pirks on 3/18/2008 12:59:20 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
they're going to have to start going after those $300 Wintel boxes after all
That's one of the possible options, for sure. I don't think they are going to go this way but who knows.

Yeah, I admitted that premium goods like MBP and Lexus are not for everyone. In fact, I never said otherwise :P


RE: I don't understand this Apple crap
By robinthakur on 3/14/2008 6:33:31 AM , Rating: 4
You can do both. I have my pc which I built myself to as near to Apple look and feel as I can get from PC (we're talking cases here) with nice components. I also have a Macbook as Laptop and currently playing with an iPhone to replace wy windows mobile device because I like them and they are well built reliable items.

I think it comes down to whether you value the actual experience of using the computer at all rather than enjoying looking through your case window at your garish UV and sound reactive SATA cables while listening to your double height graphics card loudly raise your electricity bill and constantly monitoring your core temps :) I never used to care about the amount of noise pollution coming from my pc or the way it looked and used to be into overclocking back since the days of the Celeron 300A. Since then I've embraced the dream of building a near silent pc which doesn't look out of place wherever I put it.

Far from Apple being 'inferior' they are the very model of a functional computer. Decent industrial design, simple yet powerful (not to mention pretty) OS which makes the most of the hardware available. If price were not the issue, and Apple took the place of Dell, the world would be a much better place. As it is, the fact that Apple is perceived to be overpriced based purely on the components and you seem to essentially value the thermal and external design as being worthless, seems oddly to make you seem quite hostile. Don't be such an Apple-phobe and try something different. If you aren't heavily into gaming, a mac can serve all your needs.


RE: I don't understand this Apple crap
By Pirks on 3/14/08, Rating: -1