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Among the new features of Windows 7 will be exciting touch capabilities that will alows users to drag and resize windows with a flick of the fingers, similar to the iPhone's interface.  (Source: Gizmondo)
Microsoft looks to learn from the successes and failures of Vista to deliver its strongest OS yet

Windows Vista was supposed to usher in a new era for Windows operating systems, employing a stylish aero graphical user interface and offering many improvements over its previous version. 

However for all its hits, the OS has certainly had its misses.  Initial hardware support for the 64-bit home version was bad leading to multiple incompatibilities, while the more "user-safe" interface with its many prompts (which some don't realize can be disabled) left many annoyed.  Further, the multiple SKUs left many wondering what they were buying, though in Microsoft's defense, the software giant did document the differences between versions extensively online, and worked with retailers to provide this information.

The company was also slammed with a major class action suit, after its executives admitted lying to consumers about computers' "Vista readiness" under pressure from a hungry Intel looking to sell chipsets.  Said one executive, unhappily, "We set ourselves up."

For all its problems, though, Vista delivered a rather solid experience for the majority of users.  Its improved search features, improved office suite, and more interaction-friendly graphics interface have all pleased customers. 

Microsoft is pushing ahead strong on its plans to release its next generation operating system, Windows 7.  Whereas Vista took over 5 years to release -- XP released October '01, Vista's retail release was in January '07 -- Windows 7 will reach customers in a mere 3 years, according to Microsoft.  Leaks also reveal that the Redmond-based company sent a test version of Windows 7 known as Milestone 1 (M1) to select partners in January 2008.

In an email, a Microsoft spokesman, confirmed that 2010 was the correct Windows 7 date -- three years after the consumer Vista release.  He stated, "We are currently in the planning stages for Windows 7 and development is scoped to three years from Windows Vista Consumer GA. The specific release date will be determined once the company meets its quality bar for release."

Microsoft may have already reached Milestone 2 (M2) in the development, which it had projected to reach in March/April, though the company refused to comment on the progress.  Microsoft, under extended supervision by the U.S. government for past antitrust abuses, submitted a copy of Windows 7 to the Technical Committee – the group of technology experts appointed by the Department of Justice and the other plaintiffs in Microsoft's U.S. antitrust settlement. 

The committee released a status update on this examination.  The committee states, "In addition, the [Technical Committee] has begun to review Windows 7 itself.  Microsoft recently supplied the TC with a build of Windows 7, and is discussing TC testing going forward. The TC will conduct middleware-related tests on future builds of Windows 7."

The committee apparently shared an undisclosed issue they already found and would like Microsoft to fix. 

Microsoft has disclosed little about how Windows 7 builds on Windows Vista.  Bill Gates did state in an interview that it will provide revolutionary advances in voice recognition and other natural interfaces.  The OS will also interface with Windows Live Wave 3, the latest version of Microsoft's email/messaging/utility suite

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I don't understand this Apple crap
By pauldovi on 3/13/2008 3:43:37 PM , Rating: 4
Why is everything compared to Apple.

"Similar to the iPhone"

Well god damn, Apple isn't the first company with a touch sensitive LCD device.

RE: I don't understand this Apple crap
By Etsp on 3/13/2008 3:57:50 PM , Rating: 4
What would you prefer? That they compare it to Blackberries?
(If you don't get it, think fruits.)

RE: I don't understand this Apple crap
By JoshuaBuss on 3/17/2008 12:56:10 AM , Rating: 2
I'm pretty tired of hearing about Apple as well. They're only big in mp3 player land, so if an article doesn't have to do with mp3 players or genuinely interesting new apple hardware I just don't understand why it's mentioned.

Marketshare-wise, it juts doesn't make sense to worry about apple that much. so what if a few people like their stuff. a few people REALLY like toshiba laptops or open-source OSes but we don't have to listen to it all the time.. >_<

By Pirks on 3/17/2008 3:23:08 AM , Rating: 1
Marketshare-wise, it just doesn't make sense to worry about those puny personal computers that much. So what if a few people like their stuff. A few people REALLY like those toy computers like Altair/Commodore/Sinclair/etc but we big IBM mainframe guys don't have to listen to them all the time. Let them babble about their puny "PC" toys to take over the market in future, of course everyone knows that market share is everything and we mainframe makers control the market, and will control it forever.

(C) some IBM internal talks from the last century

RE: I don't understand this Apple crap
By UNCjigga on 3/18/08, Rating: -1
RE: I don't understand this Apple crap
By Pirks on 3/18/2008 11:44:21 AM , Rating: 2
HFS Plus is a crap filesystem that even older NTFS beats hands down for security and performance
The new Mac file system is ZFS, which is read only for now and has not been fully integrated into Mac OS X yet, it's in the form of the developer preview now. Unlike non-existent WinFS that never went further than another empty MS babble, ZFS is real, and it owns crappy NTFS easily (not that NTFS is crappy by itself, but compared to ZFS it's a pathetic joke)

By UNCjigga on 3/18/2008 11:52:18 AM , Rating: 2
I don't care about unreleased features. If its not in release, it doesn't exist. Everyone thought ZFS would make it in to Leopard, but it didn't. Until it comes standard on every new Mac, Apple is beat on the filesystem front.

By djkrypplephite on 3/18/2008 4:26:34 PM , Rating: 2
He uses the iPhone as an example because that's what most people will associate with as a common multi-touch piece of equipment. Stop with the Apple hate, get over it.

By napalmjack on 3/13/2008 3:58:02 PM , Rating: 2
Huzzah, good sir.

By beyazkeyat on 3/13/2008 4:05:55 PM , Rating: 5
Maybe because the article was written by an Apple fanboy ;)

Just saying.

RE: I don't understand this Apple crap
By Pirks on 3/13/08, Rating: 0
RE: I don't understand this Apple crap
By Brigandier on 3/13/2008 5:20:11 PM , Rating: 5
You've been making that comparison a lot lately, but I don't think it really holds water. It's more like Diesel vs. Petrol engines, as there can be very svelte Windows PC's. It's just a difference in preference, anyway, you are not luxury for buying a Mac, you are luxurious because you spent a good deal of money on a computer. Macs are not inherently better, nor are they worse than Windows PC's, they are just different.

RE: I don't understand this Apple crap
By Pirks on 3/13/08, Rating: -1
RE: I don't understand this Apple crap
By Brigandier on 3/13/2008 5:55:29 PM , Rating: 5
Or you can just get a Cadillac with all those features, even though it is still GM. Or perhaps you want a Corvette, a sexy powerful sports car that is quite fast. You have that thinness and surf the web and watch movies? You can get a very nice WIndows 17 incher and actually enjoy games, and just as much performance as that Mac. Sure, some other features aren't up to snuff, but Corvettes were never meant for taking the family out. It's a trade-off, just because you see a back lit keyboard as the be-all end-all trait for luxury, does not mean others do as well. Great, we get you like Macs, but that doesn't mean they are superior to all Windows products.

RE: I don't understand this Apple crap
By Pirks on 3/13/08, Rating: -1
RE: I don't understand this Apple crap
By Brigandier on 3/13/2008 6:26:39 PM , Rating: 5
WHo is babbling about Crysis? I didn't even mention it, actually. And Falcon Northwest(A niche maker, for sure) makes a very solid gaming laptop with car quality paint and the bells and whistles to play most games, all with a 4-5 hour battery. A niche product for sure, but no more niche than a 17 inch $2800 laptop, being realistic the most you see people having is the 13 Inch Macbook(my sister even has one), which is a very niche product. I have never said Apple is bad or sub par and Windows better, I've just said Macs are not the only luxury computer. And anyone that spends $2800 dollars on a computer, be it Mac or PC, has probably just purchased himself a "luxury" computer, and they've probably purchased it according to their definition of luxury.

I am no fanboy, I am a realist, Mac is not the only luxury, and it is not luxury by default, that is all I am saying.

RE: I don't understand this Apple crap
By Pirks on 3/13/08, Rating: -1
RE: I don't understand this Apple crap
By Brigandier on 3/13/2008 6:57:26 PM , Rating: 3
A 17 Inch 7 pound notebook is not ultra-portable, it may be sexy and powerful, but ultra-portable it is not.

RE: I don't understand this Apple crap
By Pirks on 3/13/08, Rating: -1
RE: I don't understand this Apple crap
By Brigandier on 3/13/2008 7:58:48 PM , Rating: 3
That would make it MORE portable, not ultra-portable. Ultra-portable is an entire different class of notebook all together, my friend.

RE: I don't understand this Apple crap
By Pirks on 3/13/08, Rating: -1
RE: I don't understand this Apple crap
By Brigandier on 3/14/2008 12:25:38 AM , Rating: 5
What defines ultraportable to you then? Being able to carry it? Well, I can carry a desktop and monitor, but it isn't exactly ultraportable. I can also carry 17 inch notebook that ways 12 pounds, but that isn't ultraportable? You are completely allowed to say that the MBP is one of the most portable 17 inch notebooks, but it is hardly ultraportale, as it has a 17 inch screen and weighs 7 pounds. I am not a MBP hater, nor am I a Windows fanboy, I am simply a man with a wallet that makes different economic decisions than you. I doubt I'd spend my 2800 dollars the same way you would, but that doesn't mean you are Mr. Luxury.

RE: I don't understand this Apple crap
By Pirks on 3/14/08, Rating: -1
RE: I don't understand this Apple crap
By rebturtle on 3/16/2008 1:47:02 AM , Rating: 4
Would it hurt your ego too terribly much to realize that Apple doesn't build hardware - they brand it? They take a nice idea, make it pretty, lock it down with their software, and overprice it. Your fabulous Apple Air was in fact designed and built by Intel. Mr. Jobs simply gets all the glory.

Much like a Lexus is an overpriced....Toyota.

RE: I don't understand this Apple crap
By Pirks on 3/16/08, Rating: -1
RE: I don't understand this Apple crap
By nglessner on 3/13/2008 11:52:54 PM , Rating: 3
Someone on the Internet is wrong! OMG

By rebturtle on 3/16/2008 1:53:35 AM , Rating: 2
ROTFL! I'm gonna have to bookmark that one for sure!

By cscpianoman on 3/13/2008 7:04:53 PM , Rating: 2
OK, you're done. Point made, move on.

RE: I don't understand this Apple crap
By CrimsonFrost on 3/17/2008 10:41:23 AM , Rating: 2
Is no one realizing how uninformed this guy is? Pirks, my friend, you do realize for all the "Wintel" jibberish you're speaking of, the MacBook Air uses.... AN INTEL CORE 2 DUO CPU. Clocked at... lower specs than "Wintel" notebooks, why? Because the Air can't handle cooling because it wanted to be so "different", so it relies almost purely on passive air cooling.

Ya know seriously, your ignorance is what makes all of the PC users hate Mac users, they KNOW for a fact that your hardware isn't better, and ever since Apple started using Intel CPUs and chipsets, they've actually been selling the same PC crap for more money... What's the deal with that? Sometimes they even sell second rate PC crap for more money, like your example of an 8600 mobile GPU(laughs).

A backlit keyboard? Seriously... that's your only correct point in your entire spill of refuse you've so callously dumped upon this message board. Yes, Macs are nice, Apple makes some really great products, but you sir, no squat about any of that, apparently.

RE: I don't understand this Apple crap
By Pirks on 3/17/08, Rating: -1
RE: I don't understand this Apple crap
By CrimsonFrost on 3/17/2008 12:49:52 PM , Rating: 2
Oh, ok. So what exactly makes the Mac Book Pro better than the PC equivalent? Hypothetically speaking, if I were a customer in an Apple Store, with same the IT knowledge and background that I have now. How would you sell me on a MPB(mind you I am not at all opposed to the laptops, I think they're wonderful machines and have actually been looking at getting one), but how would you convince me that this laptop is better than the Windows Vista eqivalent, or XP if we need to go there.

Remember I said that it is still assumed I know what I am doing with the Windows machine, and annoyances like UAC in Vista are null to me because I can get around them. So why's it better for a person like me, or another tech savvy person from these boards? I am serious here, I am not ribbing you or provoking.

RE: I don't understand this Apple crap
By Pirks on 3/17/08, Rating: -1
RE: I don't understand this Apple crap
By CrimsonFrost on 3/17/2008 2:02:24 PM , Rating: 2
Well, since I wouldn't really be playing a game like say, Crysis on a laptop in the first place, we'll leave that aside. TBH though, I agree with most of your points, except the virus bit, if Mac's continue to gain ground in the PC market, it's only a matter of time before viruses are written for them. Virus writers are ego-maniacs, and you can't flaunt your e-wang on a Mac because it would go for all intensive purposes, unnoticed. The rest of your pitch works though, and if I were using the laptop as just a standard portable computer, it'd probably be ideal for me, BUT and this is a big one, the price comparison for a Mac that is 1,999 vs a Windows Vista laptop of the same price is not justfiable to me, that's my main issue

RE: I don't understand this Apple crap
By Pirks on 3/17/08, Rating: -1
RE: I don't understand this Apple crap
By CrimsonFrost on 3/17/2008 3:38:01 PM , Rating: 2
Bah, I meant comparing 1,999 MPB to a 1,999 Vista laptop. Hardware-wise, taking the Vista PC makes more sense to me, I'd get a lot more bang for my buck. I wrote that wrong the first time.

RE: I don't understand this Apple crap
By Pirks on 3/17/08, Rating: -1
By UNCjigga on 3/18/2008 11:55:25 AM , Rating: 1
Pirks has been talking about the MacBook Pro, so who doesn't know WTF they're talking about? That would be YOU! Why bring the AIR into this? That's right, because you're an Apple hateboi that can't make a valid point. The MacBook Air is actually clocked HIGHER than any other "Wintel" thin & light of comparable size and weight currently on the market. Take that to the bank. You're done here.

RE: I don't understand this Apple crap
By Nekrik on 3/13/2008 6:20:36 PM , Rating: 3
Wasn't it Apple who had the 'Think Different!' marketing campaign?

By mmcdonalataocdotgov on 3/14/2008 12:00:08 PM , Rating: 3
IBM was "Think"

Apple "Think Different..." meaning from IBM clones.

RE: I don't understand this Apple crap
By pauldovi on 3/13/2008 7:55:13 PM , Rating: 1
If you add enough constraints, anything is true.

I know you are trying to justify the ridiculous amount of money you spend on your laptop by telling how cool it is. However you can get the same performance out of a Lenovo Thinkpad for about 40% less (or more) than these MacBooks. Yeah sure Lenovo doesn't make 17" notebooks, but that is because a 17" notebook is a joke.

RE: I don't understand this Apple crap
By Pirks on 3/13/08, Rating: -1
RE: I don't understand this Apple crap
By pauldovi on 3/14/2008 2:15:42 AM , Rating: 2
Thinkpads are crap is what you are saying.

Thats funny.

RE: I don't understand this Apple crap
By Pirks on 3/14/08, Rating: -1
RE: I don't understand this Apple crap
By ImSpartacus on 3/14/2008 3:58:27 PM , Rating: 1
There's a point at which someone can get the best performance for the best price. It applies to almost everything, cars, computers, everything.

You can't honestly argue that there is a totally linear price performance line that runs from the low end to high end of something. It just doesn't exist.

You have to accept that your stupid little Lexus isn't worth the money that you are paying for it. It's much more economical to get something in the midrange of cars. Don't get a Kia or something else on the ultra low end, but something in the middle.

Why don't we switch it up to something other than cars? graphics cards. An 8800GT stock can be had for about 200$ (
An 8800GTX can be had for 320$ (

The GTX barely outperforms the GT, but costs a hundred dollars more.

If you don't like that analogy, try 8800GTX versus 8800Ultra at the prices when the ultra came out (~800$ vs ~550$). The Ultra was more or less an overclocked GTX.

RE: I don't understand this Apple crap
By Pirks on 3/14/08, Rating: -1
RE: I don't understand this Apple crap
By Brigandier on 3/14/2008 5:55:07 PM , Rating: 2
A $2800 17" notebook isn't mass market, it is a niche product.

RE: I don't understand this Apple crap
By Pirks on 3/14/08, Rating: -1
RE: I don't understand this Apple crap
By ImSpartacus on 3/16/2008 10:25:55 AM , Rating: 2
I agree many Apple products are "premium" products versus niches, but when the mass, non-techie market sees a 2000$ that seems to be identical to that 700$ dell's "numbers" they get skeptical. Yes, they will say "Wow, this is really nice high quality", but they will ultimately pass it by for something more cost effective.

If the mass market doesn't know much about PC's, then they won't use their PC enough to justify that Apple shine. Apple makes good products, but that is also their flaw to achieving mass adoption (although they are getting better fast, and will be in the fast lane soon).

RE: I don't understand this Apple crap
By Pirks on 3/16/08, Rating: -1
RE: I don't understand this Apple crap
By gescom on 3/17/2008 9:48:36 AM , Rating: 1
Keyboard? Check! No Wintel PC laptop has similar keyboard. Screen? Check! No analogs in Wintel world. Weight/thickness? Check! Stuff luke that, you know.

Sorry, but Thinkpad T6x workstations have better keyboard, definitely better display, much better batteries, it's lighter and yet workstation beast. Sure, at the end it's more expensive and not as thick as Apple MBP. Apple machines are ok, but there are still much better out there.

RE: I don't understand this Apple crap
By Pirks on 3/17/08, Rating: -1
RE: I don't understand this Apple crap
By gescom on 3/17/2008 3:53:48 PM , Rating: 2
When I was buying Thinkpad T60p, I was comparing it with Apple MBP:
- T60p IPS (FlexView) screen ( best notebook screen ever I would say )
- workstation graphics ( full OpenGL support )
- 5.6 pounds comparing to MBP 5.4 pounds ( +- 0.2 pounds, well I wouldn't call 5.4 pounds lightweight ;)
- battery life ( 9-cell )
- keyboard ( hm, you have to try it yourself )
- thickness? ( 1.2 inch comparing to MPB 1 inch )

At the end it was clear what to choose.

RE: I don't understand this Apple crap
By Pirks on 3/17/08, Rating: -1
RE: I don't understand this Apple crap
By djc208 on 3/14/2008 9:28:07 AM , Rating: 3
You keep trying to compare a Lexus to a GM for the whole MBP vs. Wintel laptop. In fact your really comparing a Chevy to a Cadilac. The MBP is just a Mactel. Same CPU/chipset, same HDD, GPU, USB, disk drive as a "standard" windows laptop. You're paying the extra $$$ for a fancier wrapper, a few extra features and a different badge on the front.

You're not buying the Lexus to "our" Corvette, your buying the CTS-V to our Corvette. You get a more comfortable ride and similar performance, but I stil have money for gas and extras. Otherwise they are the same basic vehicle.

Before the Intel switch this analogy might have worked, now it's just a custom PC with a special operating system, kind of like the EEe PC at the other end of the scale.

RE: I don't understand this Apple crap
By Pirks on 3/14/08, Rating: -1
RE: I don't understand this Apple crap
By djc208 on 3/14/2008 2:11:07 PM , Rating: 1
It's not stupidity, and while it might be a little fanboy-ism, so are all of your posts. The point I was trying to make, and my problem with Apple or Lexus or Cadillac etc. is that usually the premium in price doesn't match the extras.

Yes you get a nifty backlit keyboard and an LED screen and the "Apple experience", but that's a lot of money for two extra features (I won't count the apple experience as a feature) compared to an identically configured WinTel machine with a "standard" screen and keyboard.

Most won't deny that the iPhone is slick, or that iPods are good MP3 players, or that OS X has some great features. The problem I have is that it comes at too high a price, both financially and technologically. I don't want to have to drink the Apple cool-aid just to get a nifty touch screen on my phone.

RE: I don't understand this Apple crap
By Pirks on 3/14/08, Rating: -1
RE: I don't understand this Apple crap
By UNCjigga on 3/18/2008 11:49:37 AM , Rating: 1
Your argument makes no sense! Going back to the original "why even mention Apple?" comments, the whole argument was that Apple is a niche player and is thus irrelevant. Pirks made the valid point that Apple shouldn't be considered a niche player, but a premium segment player. There is a difference which I will get to. I don't understand why EVERY SINGLE POST Pirks made has been rated down--again, the Apple hatebois on this forum are just pathetic, worse than even the Apple fanbois!

So what's the difference between a niche player and a premium/luxury player? Let's go back to the car analogy. If you apply your argument against Apple to Cadillac, Lexus, etc., you'd be calling them niche players. Let's run with that for a bit. Next time you're at an airport or book store, take a look at the magazine rack. Now take a look at the automotive magazines. What brand's cars are on the cover? Is it Chevy? Chrysler? Hyundai? Honda and Toyota? Or do you see more covers with BMW, Lexus, Infiniti, Ferrari, Mercedes? If these are niche players, why do they get so much coverage? I'll give you the answer--but you won't like it...


Like it or not, Apple is slowly working itself into this position. Tech geeks can't stand it, but the media and general public who "know nothing" are infatuated with Apple products, for better or worse. Enterprise and IT managers probably don't give a sh*t about Apple, but the general public sure does, and while we might not all buy Apple computers (I sure don't), we may find ourselves looking for features on other PCs that bring us closer to the "Apple experience" (i.e. 17" LED, backlit keyboard, thin and light, metal enclosure--not Apple-exclusive features by any means, but valid comparison points.)

By Pirks on 3/18/2008 12:45:46 PM , Rating: 1
Enterprise and IT managers probably don't give a sh*t about Apple
I've got a friend in New York, a CIO in a 60000+ people US/British company, they buy Macs by thousands these days, replacing old crappy'n'cheapo Wintel boxes from Dell. The picture he drew me is quite interesting - compared to Wintel offers Macs are not at all much more expensive, they use a mix of Minis and MacBooks, with occasionall addition of more powerful Macs where necessary, their corporate servers running a mix of Linux, Mac OS X and Windows servers (Windows runs Exchange there). The primary reason for switching to Macs, as he puts it, is the decrease in TCO, since they were able to lay off a bunch of Windows support people who were not necessary for supporting Macs. In his company it turned out that the IT staff could be cut about ten times (i.e. 9 out of 10 people will be fired eventually) because 1 person can support about ten times more Macs than Windows boxes. There you go - Macs in the large enterprise, I guess currently they are testing iPhone and provide Apple feedback on what enterprise features they would like to see in their products in the future.

It's very interesting to observe the difference between reality and warped/brainwashed minds of local Wintel zealots. I like to observe this kind of pathology. Call me a pervert, hehehe :))) I just love stupid zealots of all kind and all their mindless babbling and downrating. They love me too as you can see from my rating.

By robinthakur on 3/14/2008 6:42:44 AM , Rating: 2
The thinkpad is just so ugly, I could never bring myself to buy one in a million years. No matter how capable it may or may not be. At least its well built, the rest of the notebooks out there look cheaply made with tacky design. Owning a macbook is like dating a supermodel (umm..I'd imagine) You're constantly in awe at your own ability to afford one as well as the gorgeousness of it :) Its NOT all about performance, something you lot seem not to understand. The Macbook offers up decent performance (I seem to remember that when running vista it used to be [or might still be] one of the most powerful laptops out there) and gets the job done with style. I'm mainly a PC person, but I wouldn't part with my Macbook until I get a new one.

RE: I don't understand this Apple crap
By B3an on 3/13/08, Rating: 0
RE: I don't understand this Apple crap
By Pirks on 3/14/08, Rating: -1
RE: I don't understand this Apple crap
By B3an on 3/14/2008 2:03:08 AM , Rating: 2
It's really sad you're such a fanboy, i guess your've never used a proper high-end computer before with real quality components? If you truely knew anything about computer tech your'd be building your own computers with vastly superior and higher quality components for the same price as Apple stuff, or even less.
But i guess it helps saying all this stuff to make yourself feel more content with your purchase of overpriced-yet-inferior Apple products.

RE: I don't understand this Apple crap
By Pirks on 3/14/08, Rating: -1
RE: I don't understand this Apple crap
By theapparition on 3/14/2008 10:40:22 AM , Rating: 2
There are always certain features that sway a buying decision one way or the other.

For you, you seem to be focused on weight, and backlit keyboard. I've never really researched it, but have no doubt you could find something comparible to the apple.

For me, I care more about graphics and memory. I can get pretty much the same computer, sans weight advantage and backlit keyboard, for less money from Dell, plus with signifigantly upgraded workstation level graphics and memory configurations that are not available from Apple .
(Not to mention that Apple's won't run my software to begin with, oh yeah, they don't run 80% of the software out there under OSX!).
So, point of view defines "vastly superior". From my point of view, my laptop is "vastly superior". For what you do, your may be. There is no be-all-end-all product. Get it?

Enough, Troll fed.....

RE: I don't understand this Apple crap
By Pirks on 3/14/08, Rating: -1
RE: I don't understand this Apple crap
By theapparition on 3/14/2008 2:31:56 PM , Rating: 2
So your case seems to be weird - you complain about things that MBP 17" can do easily (running Windows, workstation 3D oriented software, having as much memory as you want, etc) and say that it can't do all of this? I don't get it - could you please explain? What exactly MBP 17" can't do for you and why? I thought it has workstation level graphics card inside, as much RAM as you can get in a laptop and it runs all the Windows stuff. What's missing here?

The apple is a consumer level card, they have never offered a workstation card in any of the x86 offerings, even desktops and apples "workstations" (that I am aware of). Workstation level graphics go by the name of Quadro (NVidia) and FireGL (AMD). Sorry, 8600GT is not even in the same ballpark. The differences for engineering software is night and day. Plus, the workstation level laptops let you run far more ram than the "thin" MBP can (not to mention how much Apple would charge for that much ram!). It makes being able to show a 3D CFD animation at a customers facility vs. not even being able to load it or interact with it.

As for your car analogy, comfort is always defined as comfort. I don't think your "wintel" fanboy is changing the definition. They are just putting a different priority on it than you, and for them "pure speed and engine torque" is higher on the list.
No one product is best. I'm glad your happy with your Apple. Apple makes very good hardware, but to dismiss other manufacturers as also-rans is completely wrong.

In case you missed it, I also prefer Corvettes over Lexus. So lets agree to disagree.

RE: I don't understand this Apple crap
By Pirks on 3/14/08, Rating: -1
RE: I don't understand this Apple crap
By theapparition on 3/17/2008 7:56:29 AM , Rating: 1
I like how you constantly alter your argument to make your point. Originally you stated that you thought the 8600GT was a workstation card and asked what couldn't be done on proven wrong, you back down from that and say that the MBP is not for professional use. Which is it? If you really want to include the "Average person" as you classify it, you should include gamers, since that is a huge market for personal computing. The MBP is not the best system for gaming either, since you now need to throw another couple hundred bucks into the price for a copy of Windows.

I'm not knocking the MBP at all. I think it's a very nice piece of hardware. I still don't think it's a good value though, even for your "average person".

And since you like the car analogy, the Lexus is not for the "common guy". Ford and Chevy's and Toyota's are. See the difference. Lexus is a small market brand catering for luxurious image-conscious buyers, not unlike Apple, but will always stay a boutique brand. (Yes I know Lexus is made by Toyota)

RE: I don't understand this Apple crap
By Pirks on 3/17/08, Rating: -1
RE: I don't understand this Apple crap
By theapparition on 3/17/2008 9:47:01 PM , Rating: 2
They just don't work in the very cheapo/budget segment of the market - that does NOT make them boutique brand, now does it? ;-)

Considering they have less than 5% marketshare, and even less marketshare when considering laptops..........yes, I'd consider them a boutique brand.

Still not sure what your arguing. Everyone has different needs. Apples are great for that minority that wants them. For the 95% of the remaining market, there is a another that fits users needs. Apples are just not the be-all end-all computer brand like your implying.

RE: I don't understand this Apple crap
By Pirks on 3/18/2008 12:23:10 AM , Rating: 1
Considering they have less than 5% marketshare, and even less marketshare when considering laptops
Sorry, but I have to trash your myths here -> <- see how Apple incinerates competitors in premium laptop market? Food for though, huh? :))

I never implied that Apple is be-all-end-all, same as Lexus can't be a car for everyone. I said that Apple successfully grabs more and more of a premium computer market with the highest profir margins. Premium computer is NOT EQUAL to be-all-end-all computer, got it?

I said numerous times that exotic car makers don't give a crap about cheapo Chevys, they don't give a crap about your marketshare stuff - same is true for Apple, they don't care about selling gazillion of crappy $300 Wintel PCs, they want sell small amount of quality stuff while keeping prfots FAT, much fatter than any Dell can dream about.

RE: I don't understand this Apple crap
By theapparition on 3/18/2008 11:47:40 AM , Rating: 2
Food for thought? Well, I chewed on it for a few seconds, and this is what I spat out. From your own link:

"'Accordingly,' Sacconaghi concludes, 'we believe Apple faces a trade-off in its Mac business over the next 2 - 3 years: either lower price (and margin percentage) to sustain share gains, or retain its current price premiums and face slowing unit growth,'" Elmer-Dewitt reports.

Hmmm, guess they're going to have to start going after those $300 Wintel boxes after all.

But at least you admitted that the MBP is not for everyone ;)

I'm done, it's been nice talking with you.

By Pirks on 3/18/2008 12:59:20 PM , Rating: 2
they're going to have to start going after those $300 Wintel boxes after all
That's one of the possible options, for sure. I don't think they are going to go this way but who knows.

Yeah, I admitted that premium goods like MBP and Lexus are not for everyone. In fact, I never said otherwise :P

RE: I don't understand this Apple crap
By robinthakur on 3/14/2008 6:33:31 AM , Rating: 4
You can do both. I have my pc which I built myself to as near to Apple look and feel as I can get from PC (we're talking cases here) with nice components. I also have a Macbook as Laptop and currently playing with an iPhone to replace wy windows mobile device because I like them and they are well built reliable items.

I think it comes down to whether you value the actual experience of using the computer at all rather than enjoying looking through your case window at your garish UV and sound reactive SATA cables while listening to your double height graphics card loudly raise your electricity bill and constantly monitoring your core temps :) I never used to care about the amount of noise pollution coming from my pc or the way it looked and used to be into overclocking back since the days of the Celeron 300A. Since then I've embraced the dream of building a near silent pc which doesn't look out of place wherever I put it.

Far from Apple being 'inferior' they are the very model of a functional computer. Decent industrial design, simple yet powerful (not to mention pretty) OS which makes the most of the hardware available. If price were not the issue, and Apple took the place of Dell, the world would be a much better place. As it is, the fact that Apple is perceived to be overpriced based purely on the components and you seem to essentially value the thermal and external design as being worthless, seems oddly to make you seem quite hostile. Don't be such an Apple-phobe and try something different. If you aren't heavily into gaming, a mac can serve all your needs.

RE: I don't understand this Apple crap
By Pirks on 3/14/08, Rating: -1
By JonnyBlaze on 3/14/2008 12:09:48 PM , Rating: 1
Show me a Lexus that doesn't come with an optical drive.

RE: I don't understand this Apple crap
By SiliconAddict on 3/17/08, Rating: 0
RE: I don't understand this Apple crap
By evident on 3/14/08, Rating: 0
RE: I don't understand this Apple crap
By robinthakur on 3/14/2008 6:45:33 AM , Rating: 1
People who whine about Apple elitists are just jealous and probably all have your level of language skills "What a suckers" indeed!

By evident on 3/14/2008 8:15:46 AM , Rating: 2
Sorry, Apple suckers just think everyone else is jealous while they toil with itunes and figuring out how to get it to work with their ipods while everyone else can just drag and drop via windows explorer.

what a suckers? they are suckers!

By mondo1234 on 3/13/2008 5:35:15 PM , Rating: 2
Why is everything compared to Apple."Similar to the iPhone"

MS can share some of the blame on this as they could have released something similar on the Zune, or on Windows Mobile. MS had all of the fanfare with "Surface". They could capitalize on it with the press, but they need to recoupe the R+D, so you wont see surface come out on a $200 device. MS would naturally want more money for that.
I am not an apple fanboy, but I am glad they upset the Cell Phone industry a little. Most cell phones are a POS.

By the way, where are all the ISupply cost reviews of the other cell phones built by Moto and LG?

By MrPoletski on 3/14/2008 3:16:22 AM , Rating: 2
"Why is everything compared to Apple."

Everything except oranges that is.

By mmcdonalataocdotgov on 3/14/2008 11:59:09 AM , Rating: 2
MS will incorporate touch software that has been out there for years, and then get sued by touch software manufacturers for awhile, as with Media Player, Netscape et al.

Apple is one of the last companies with touch software. It was one of the first to incorporate it into the OS, and have a multitouch capability. MS is now going to follow suit.

RE: I don't understand this Apple crap
By bsd230 on 3/15/2008 12:40:44 PM , Rating: 2
Because the Apple crowd thinks their OS is superior. I like it but I refuse to pay 3x the price as a PC to get one. For what an Mac costs I can build one hell-of-a-PC.

I see an interesting trend it seems that every OS Microsoft designs after a successful one bombs. Win95-huge, Win98-okay, Win98SE huge, ME-dud, XP-huge, Vista-dud, Win7-huge?
My only real complaint with Vista is slow booting and the performance hit. Granted the performance tends to go down with each version as they get more robust in features.

RE: I don't understand this Apple crap
By Pirks on 3/15/08, Rating: -1
RE: I don't understand this Apple crap
By Warren21 on 3/16/2008 1:30:15 AM , Rating: 2
You need to shut the hell up about this 19 x 12 17" LED-backlit, fiber-optic backlit keyboard MacBook Pro which you whip out every time. So Apple can make nice laptops with some features none (or very few) other brands offer -- good for them, no one is debating that.

If anyone cared, they'd ask. We're talking about desktops, since there are no DIY laptops.

Talk about the differences with the Mac Pro's vs. a similarly priced PC. Oh wait, there aren't any on the new Intel Macs other than the case/OS.

RE: I don't understand this Apple crap
By Pirks on 3/16/08, Rating: -1
RE: I don't understand this Apple crap
By Flunk on 3/17/2008 1:51:00 AM , Rating: 1
So you use the term "Wintel" to describe everyone who isn't a Mac Zealot then? To be fair, aren't you using an Intel chip too? Does that much you a "Mintel" zealot?

Apple is just 1 PC manufacturer, like Dell or HP. They all sell essentially the same thing anyway.

Need a Wiimote like device
By mikefarinha on 3/13/2008 3:14:48 PM , Rating: 2
Bill Gates did state in an interview that it will provide revolutionary advances in voice recognition and other natural interfaces.

I would sure like to see a Wiimote like device come out. That is the best device for driving a PC in the living room. I'd love to be able to control my HTPC using my Wiimote.

In fact I think all living room devices should come with some sort of interface standard that revolves around a Wiimote like device.

RE: Need a Wiimote like device
By KristopherKubicki on 3/13/2008 3:16:41 PM , Rating: 5
Gesture interfaces like Surface seem pretty awesome and intuitive -- PKD got it right with Minority Report.

RE: Need a Wiimote like device
By Oregonian2 on 3/13/2008 3:27:14 PM , Rating: 5
I doubt it. Mostly fluff.

Can you imagine people at work with their whole arms extended and waving around without their arms falling off after an 8-hour work day? Good for some things, but not generally. Mousing and keyboards is more ergonomic for 8-hour work days, IMO. Or perhaps a marketting spin of "office work and gym arm workout in one!"


RE: Need a Wiimote like device
By FITCamaro on 3/13/2008 3:35:52 PM , Rating: 2
Likely you'd just use it to move/resize windows and such with your hands instead of a mouse. Voice recognition might come but you can't use it in an office so keyboards will still be around.

RE: Need a Wiimote like device
By Hieyeck on 3/13/2008 4:00:32 PM , Rating: 5
Voice recognition is never a good idea.

Just imagine the malicious office prankster walking up behind people yelling "DELETE C DRIVE. CONFIRM." :P (Yes, I know it's not that simple, but you get the idea)

RE: Need a Wiimote like device
By hopsandmalt on 3/13/2008 4:07:21 PM , Rating: 2
You would think that TRUE voice recognition would "recognize" that it wasnt your voice, but that of a prankster.

RE: Need a Wiimote like device
By cscpianoman on 3/13/2008 6:56:45 PM , Rating: 2
Wasn't there a Dilbert comic about that?

RE: Need a Wiimote like device
By nekobawt on 3/18/2008 3:03:21 PM , Rating: 2
I don't know, but I do know there was a PVP Online comic about it. Seems to me any geek comic with a computer nerd character could use--and probably has used--the voice recognition gag.

RE: Need a Wiimote like device
By mikefarinha on 3/13/2008 3:49:53 PM , Rating: 3
It will depend on the use, gesture interaction won't be able to replace the keyboard but it could easily replace the mouse.

Voice could replace the keyboard... but could you imagine walking into an office and listening to all the employees talking to their computers?!?!

RE: Need a Wiimote like device
By christojojo on 3/13/2008 6:11:32 PM , Rating: 5
Can you imagine people at work with their whole arms extended and waving around without their arms falling off after an 8-hour work day?

"Office worker the new muscle heads"

Getting fit with Steve Ballmer

TaeBo With Bill Gates

Other Companies will get into the act too.

Steve Jobs and iPilates

Will Wright and his virtual Work Out "The Buffs"

RE: Need a Wiimote like device
By timmiser on 3/13/2008 6:30:41 PM , Rating: 2
Actually, think of it more as Minority Report meets the iPhone. The first time I saw someone working their iphone, the first thing I thought of was Minority Report. You essentailly learn a language of hand commands on the iphone and maybe the next controller would utilize some sort of motion activated (Wii-like) device to replace a mouse.

We'll look back at the mouse days and laugh at how we stayed with those two dimensional controllers for so long!

RE: Need a Wiimote like device
By robinthakur on 3/14/2008 6:50:48 AM , Rating: 1
Despite being an Apple fan, I think we all know how iphones work. Learning a language of hand commands is being a bit too generous, its just pinch and expand :) I do love the interface on it though, in fact i sometimes just play with it when i'm bored because it feels like i'm in the future...there's a tech demo on the iphone called 'minority report' or some such where you can rotate pictures using two fingers. I was amazed how well it works. The future's going to be an exciting place...

RE: Need a Wiimote like device
By mikefarinha on 3/13/2008 3:37:21 PM , Rating: 2
I'd agree but that technology is still a bit away. The Wiimote is here and cheap. People are able to pick it up and use it with taking virtually no time to learn.

RE: Need a Wiimote like device
By PAPutzback on 3/13/2008 3:47:39 PM , Rating: 2
Ok. You like the WII remote. We get it. but as someone said above it is only good for moving stuff around and for any work related stuff your arms would get tired.

I don't get why the WII keyboard interface used the querty layout. It works good for when you have fingers on a keyboard but to pick out letters one at a time it is a lot of work.

RE: Need a Wiimote like device
By mikefarinha on 3/13/2008 3:53:50 PM , Rating: 2
I wasn't thinking about using it in a work environment but rather a home environment. I don't often type up reports when I'm at home hanging out in my living room.

Familiarity, that is why they used the QWERTY keyboard layout for their keyboard interface. It would be nice it gave different layouts... but it's really not that central to using the system.

RE: Need a Wiimote like device
By KingstonU on 3/13/2008 3:22:51 PM , Rating: 3
Forget the Wiimote, look up the Z-Camera

The Wiimote was groundbreaking and I love it to death for being brave enough to open up the industry for motion sensing. And now we have an even better evolution of motion sensing. This is much simpler, much more flexible and the video shows it working very well and it's already working on a PC.

RE: Need a Wiimote like device
By KingstonU on 3/13/2008 3:26:47 PM , Rating: 2
Also note you can do the Minority Report trick with the item above

Windows 98?
By Spivonious on 3/13/2008 3:09:20 PM , Rating: 2
This sounds like it will parallel the Win 95 - Win 98 move. New interface, lots of changes, and then a minor update that has a few new features. Kind of like XP - XP SP2 actually.

RE: Windows 98?
By OrSin on 3/13/08, Rating: 0
RE: Windows 98?
By Master Kenobi on 3/13/2008 3:25:27 PM , Rating: 3
Windows 7 will be the last 32-bit OS. (64-bit option will also exist). Windows 8 going and on is planned to be 64-bit only.

RE: Windows 98?
By Etsp on 3/13/2008 3:52:38 PM , Rating: 5
That would really be a shame... it should be the other way around, it should be a 64-bit OS with the option of requesting a 32-bit version. Hardware vendors need to focus their drivers around 64-bit, but they won't until it is more mainstream. Windows 7's Recommended System requirements(not minimum) should probably end up being 4 gigs of ram, meaning to have a decent experience on the OS, you would need the 64 bit version.

RE: Windows 98?
By johnsonx on 3/13/2008 5:37:36 PM , Rating: 5
That is unfortunate if true. Windows 7 should be 64-bit, period. There simply is no reason to support 32-bit hardware in 2010 (very little even in 2008 - most non 64-bit hardware shouldn't be running Vista anyway). I admit I run 32-bit Vista, XP and Linux on my 64-bit machines, due to certain software I need that isn't 64-bit ready yet. However by 2010 any software that can't run on a 64-bit OS should either have been upgraded or retired; failing that you stay on Vista 32-bit.

RE: Windows 98?
By Cheapshot on 3/13/2008 11:17:42 PM , Rating: 2
Seconded and third...uh...did.

Microsoft has an opportunity to allow hardware and software makers 3 full years to comply with 64 bit operating systems.

I really want to open up the 8 gig and beyond option on my motherboard, but I just don't have the faith in current 64 bit OS. A deadline of 3 years just might work.

RE: Windows 98?
By FITCamaro on 3/13/2008 3:30:45 PM , Rating: 5
Short of doing it themselves, they cannot make hardware manufacturers release good drivers.

But yes in the past they stated that Vista was the last 32-bit OS. Every desktop processor today has the ability to run 64-bit code (maybe not Celerons but its probably more a flag to switch it back on than the support not being there). And by 2010 we'll have octal core processors if not more.

And Vista is hardly ME. It does not have anything like the horrid memory leaks of ME. And hardware support is hardly Microsoft's fault. Fact is that 1000s of devices work with Vista. Those that don't, its the company who made them's responsibility to come out with a driver for Vista. Not Microsofts. And companies who's devices don't work properly with Vista (Creative) are also at fault for that as well. They had plenty of time to write drivers for Vista.

RE: Windows 98?
By mikefarinha on 3/13/2008 3:47:10 PM , Rating: 4
And Vista is hardly ME. It does not have anything like the horrid memory leaks of ME.

I agree. Anyone who compares WinME to Vista has obviously never used both WinME and Vista in any in depth manner.

I was doing tech support for a large ISP (Earthlink) when Windows ME came out... nothing else can compare to WinME, it was one of the hardest OSes to troubleshoot. It would corrupt it's own files, then when you went to replace those files from the CD it would detect that they were changed and overwrite the new, good file, with it's back up copy of the corrupted file... just one of its many lovely features.

Win XP->Vista is more like Win95->98

RE: Windows 98?
By darkpaw on 3/13/2008 4:30:19 PM , Rating: 2
Not to mention the incredible missing hard drive technique. The first version of system restore was horrendous. Had quite a few people ask me where their hard drive disappeared to and system restore was using half of it. It sure wasn't easy to mangage in ME either.

RE: Windows 98?
By Cobra Commander on 3/13/2008 3:42:25 PM , Rating: 3
Actually it's identical to 2000>XP.
2000=NT 5.0
XP=NT 5.1
Vista =NT 6.0
Windows 7 = NT 6.1

RE: Windows 98?
By Nekrik on 3/13/2008 4:01:47 PM , Rating: 2
I don't believe Windows 7 = NT 6.1.
It is named Windows 7 because it is = NT 7.

I could be wrong but that is the impression I got after watching Traut's presentation on Windows 7.

RE: Windows 98?
By rninneman on 3/13/2008 4:35:17 PM , Rating: 2
The screenshots show the version at 6.1.

RE: Windows 98?
By archcommus on 3/13/2008 6:15:13 PM , Rating: 2
Pretty sure that's only because it's using the 6.1 kernel right now (also in Server 2008, correct?). Obviously the 7.0 kernel is not done already. I think it will get up to version 7.0 for this release, hence like the previous posted mentioned, the name Windows 7.

Windows 7 will be as big of a jump as Vista was from XP/2000, which is bigger than a lot of people realize apparently.

RE: Windows 98?
By rninneman on 3/13/2008 6:29:07 PM , Rating: 2
Server 2008 is built on 6.0 like Vista although it is called SP1 right out of the box. Most of what you just stated is what you think and not what Microsoft has announced.

Historically, Microsoft has done a major release and then a minor release and they have even publically announced their intention to continue with that strategy.

There is no reason to believe the version number will change. Windows Mobile 6 is actually version 5.2. Chances are Windows 7 will get renamed just like XP and Vista.

All I have to say is...
By Motoman on 3/13/2008 3:06:59 PM , Rating: 1
...I'll be using XP until Windows 7 comes out - and if it's as good as Vista is, I'll then be switching. To Linux.

RE: All I have to say is...
By Belard on 3/13/08, Rating: -1
RE: All I have to say is...
By zsouthboy on 3/13/08, Rating: 0
RE: All I have to say is...
By mondo1234 on 3/13/2008 5:21:33 PM , Rating: 2
It looks like Vista support will stop at SP1. No need for MS to invest time on it.
I will be sticking with XP also, Vista has nothing to offer me at this time.

RE: All I have to say is...
By ChronoReverse on 3/13/2008 6:06:57 PM , Rating: 2
Who on earth uses the built in zip utility of Windows anyways? That this keeps being brought up as a "point against Vista" shows how the Vista detractors are just grasping at straws now.

7-zip in Vista is the same as in XP. WinRAR as well.

RE: All I have to say is...
By smilingcrow on 3/13/2008 8:34:47 PM , Rating: 2
"Who on earth uses the built in zip utility of Windows anyways?"

The majority of non techie users!

RE: All I have to say is...
By ChronoReverse on 3/14/2008 2:50:18 AM , Rating: 3
From what I've seen at most client sites I've visited, they have an expired copy of Winzip.

RE: All I have to say is...
By mindless1 on 3/14/2008 1:03:31 AM , Rating: 2
On the one hand you have a point, in that most of the integrated features are bad compared to good quality 3rd party add-on funcitonality, but then if you're going to add on features then why would you choose a bloated OS upon which you end up not using the features that made it bloated?

So-called "Vista detractors" seem to have a better grasp of the situation, since they are choosing what they need instead of assuming everyone wants the same thing.

RE: All I have to say is...
By ChronoReverse on 3/14/2008 2:51:57 AM , Rating: 2
Most of the people who use the integrated zip functionality aren't zipping hundreds of megabytes. They'd be zipping a word document or such. So in the end it really doesn't matter.

Besides, zip speeds? Can you really make a case that an OS is poor because its built in zip is slow?

RE: All I have to say is...
By JoeBanana on 3/14/2008 2:25:21 PM , Rating: 1
I think that game developers will put more into some cross-platform API, rather that in DirectX10. Don't get me wrong DX10 has the best development tools but the fact is everything that can be done in DX10 can be done in OpenGl.

And if we compare those two OpenGl is cross-platform, which means easy porting to game consoles, unix, etc... And we all know game console market is getting bigger, unix is on the horizon,...

Release Date
By GoodBytes on 3/13/2008 3:02:00 PM , Rating: 2
Didn't Microsoft said that Longhorn was about to be released in 2003, and WinXP basher's (now lovers), said that will wait until Longhorn get's released?

RE: Release Date
By darkpaw on 3/13/2008 3:07:46 PM , Rating: 4
I do believe the original Vista release target was 2005, and I really wouldn't be surprised to see W7 slip until 2012 or so.

RE: Release Date
By 67STANG on 3/13/2008 3:30:23 PM , Rating: 2
2012 is probably the safe bet. By then, the adoption rate of Vista might actually be running 70-80%, because they'll have SP2 or possibly SP3 out by then.

RE: Release Date
By sirius4k on 3/14/2008 7:50:00 AM , Rating: 2
Doesn't matter when it gets done. What matters is that they'd release it when it's actually ready. Unlike what happened with Vista =P

I'm a very happy Vista user =D And I don't have anything to complain about, but they left alot of stuff out they promised at the beginning coz of the release date =(

RE: Release Date
By SiliconAddict on 3/17/2008 5:31:12 PM , Rating: 2
Please do us all a favor and get bent. The reason Vista took so long is the same reason 10.0 took so long: they redid the OS from the ground up. That is why 10.2, .3, .4, .5 didn’t take 10 years to do. They had the foundation. Vista is the foundation. Future Windows updates will build upon that foundation, that is all. Losers.

By amanojaku on 3/13/2008 3:08:28 PM , Rating: 2
Bill Gates did state in an interview that it will provide revolutionary advances in voice recognition and other natural interfaces.

I love how every company describes its next generation product as "revolutionary." I think in this case the physical interfaces of computers will have to improve in order to provide for a "truly revolutionary" OS. The average PC today has a monitor, keyboard, mouse, network card, and drives for input. Aside from the touchscreen capabilities of some monitors none of these devices provide for "natural" human input.

Despite our fancy little 10MB applets PCs don't interact with us in the way we do with each other, so how are PCs going to be "natural?" Inquiring minds want to know...

RE: Natural?
By nosfe on 3/13/2008 4:06:46 PM , Rating: 5
not all, apple calls their products "magical"

RE: Natural?
By del on 3/15/2008 6:46:44 PM , Rating: 2
haha... Yeah, few companies can start a revolution... just like few people can think outside the box. Apple is just weird. :)

Nothing Microsoft comes out with is ever revolutionary. I saw that the Wii was mentioned in one of these posts... IMO the Wii controller is revolutionary, just like its console's former code name implies.

Quality bar?
By Mr B on 3/13/2008 3:33:05 PM , Rating: 5
The specific release date will be determined once the company meets its quality bar for release

Given their recent track record with Home Server and Xbox360's I'd say that bar is pretty low...

RE: Quality bar?
By smilingcrow on 3/13/2008 8:38:10 PM , Rating: 3
The specific release date will be determined once the company meets its quality bar for release

It seems as if they are currently conducting their QA sessions in a bar rather than aiming to meet one.

By ioannis on 3/13/2008 5:31:41 PM , Rating: 2
The usual Microsoft tactics. Remember Cairo?

RE: Vaporware
By smilingcrow on 3/13/2008 8:45:01 PM , Rating: 3
Yeah, that was a great holiday; I still have the photos to remind me. Oh shit, I transferred them onto my new WHS box over the weekend, so I probably don’t have them any more.

RE: Vaporware
By ioannis on 3/14/2008 2:48:17 PM , Rating: 2

as for Microsoft's Cairo, wikipedia to the rescue:

What about Windows 6?
By del on 3/15/2008 6:33:45 PM , Rating: 2
hey, why don't they just fix Windows Vista rather than deploy a whole new operating system again?

RE: What about Windows 6?
By del on 3/15/2008 6:37:41 PM , Rating: 2
I meant to say release, not deploy

small kernal/virtualization still in the cards?
By kattanna on 3/13/2008 4:22:15 PM , Rating: 2
i thought i remember reading a little while back that this next version of windows was to use a MUCH smaller and more compact kernal that would then run the OS itself virtually. and that backwards compatability would be accomplished via running a virtual session that supported old windows

By smilingcrow on 3/13/2008 8:33:42 PM , Rating: 1
I think that was a dream!

I like MS but...
By PWNettle on 3/13/2008 8:31:46 PM , Rating: 2
I like MS but I'm simply not going to buy overpriced and questionable software/OSes that force crap on me that I don't want and stuff like that - like Vista or pretty much any of their '07 stuff.

I'd much rather see an OS that doesn't treat everyone like idiots, that's stable like XP, and that costs are sane amount of money.

I can't see upgrading until that happens.

can't resist
By jlips6 on 3/16/2008 2:44:02 PM , Rating: 2
I'm sorry, but i think i need to quote on this topic. "now combining windows NT, windows CE, and windows ME for the new version of windows CEMENT!

ms sux
By GlassHouse69 on 3/17/2008 12:47:35 PM , Rating: 2
Vista currently doesnt support dual core cpus

i wonder if 2007 will. no mention of that yet.

yes, i know it WORKS with them, it just doesnt USE them. vista was made years before dual core was available. Things would be ultra speedy if the next version of windows utilized multi cores. Since intel pays off MS, im assuming that this is a mandatory feature for the next issue.

I've never seen...
By Durrr on 3/19/2008 8:09:20 AM , Rating: 2
so many -1 ratings on posts from one guy in one story before. GJ Pirks! lol...

Touchscreen on demand
By Ananke on 3/13/2008 4:52:24 PM , Rating: 1
Microsoft helped Intel and AMD to increase demand /and thus sales/ of faster microprocessors in the 90's, after that MS helped the memory industry with memory hungry Vista, and now it came the time to help the toushscreen panel and LCD industry /like Samsung?/. I guess the trade aggreement is " We will create more panel market for you, you give up the integrated ultra portable processor market aka iPhone, then we let that market to our friends in Intel, and everybody happily developes products which work best under MS Win Mobile.
These people are very smart there in MS :)
However,I would be more happy to have descent smart phone for 50 bucks and 10 $/month flat plan and NO like 10 years of slavery contract, even if it works under some exotic Unix distro.

By ultimatebob on 3/13/2008 6:06:24 PM , Rating: 1
Amazing... we don't even have a public beta of Windows "7" yet, and the estimated release date has already slipped from 2009 to 2010.

I think that we should start a betting pool on the actual release date for Windows "7". Judging from the past "successes" in hitting release targets with Windows XP and Windows Vista, I'm going to guess June 21st, 2011. I'm being optimistic that the schedule is only going to slip an additional year this time, instead of 2 years like Vista!

By paulpod on 3/13/2008 6:41:15 PM , Rating: 1
Windows 7 needs to go back to being a PC operation system. Namely that the user has TOTAL control over what is installed and what runs on the PC. And that the user is not forced to re-buy software and peripherals at each upgrade.

This is really the only flaw that crept into XP and was designed into Vista. Think about it, here are things that should be guaranteed at the OS level but are not:

- Initial OS installation that is minimal (or appears to be) until the user specifically requests a function and runs it on a trial basis.
- Preventing OS overhead from slowing down basic operations like file copies and network access
- Preventing software apps from changing the OS in any way that affects the PC when the app is not running.
- Preventing software from installing services or scheduled events unless a query with a detailed description of the action is approved. The vague UAC query is a joke.
- Preventing software from hijacking file extensions.
- Forcing software installers to provide a TOTAL removal option in add/remove programs and to provide standalone apps for cleaning up corrupt installs. A "Designed for Windows" program must be able to be removed without leaving ANY trace.
- A driver compatibility guarantee. There NO WAY things like Nvidia Purevideo and ATI USB 200 tuners that work on XP should not work on Vista and Windows 7.
- Return to a functional DirectShow filter system so 3rd party vendors can write software for tuners instead of locking everyone into the insanely pathetic, "10ft" user interface model of Media Center.

So basically...
By encryptkeeper on 3/13/2008 9:21:39 PM , Rating: 1
We now know the date that Windows 7 will be delayed by.

By Aloonatic on 3/14/2008 5:02:09 AM , Rating: 1
.... Windows 10 SP7 is released :-s

Or maybe most people will just have the version of windows that comes on their machine by default from Dell etc?

Gates also said...
By Silverel on 3/13/08, Rating: -1
RE: Gates also said...
By Xerio on 3/13/2008 4:01:41 PM , Rating: 5
Really? Are you sure that was the question he was asked?

The question that was asked Gates as shown on a video on Gizmodo - - was:
In the last five years, what one product do you wish you could have polished a little more?

That is a whole a lot different than "Which OS was the worst?"

Windows ME?
By UppityMatt on 3/13/08, Rating: -1
RE: Windows ME?
By i4mt3hwin on 3/13/2008 3:27:51 PM , Rating: 5
The ocean shares a lot of similarities to the sky, both are blue.

RE: Windows ME?
By PAPutzback on 3/13/2008 3:49:38 PM , Rating: 2
Can I use that.

RE: Windows ME?
By Etsp on 3/13/2008 3:54:46 PM , Rating: 4
Not unless you want to get litigious with SCO, I'm pretty sure they think they own that patent...

RE: Windows ME?
By Flunk on 3/13/2008 3:54:30 PM , Rating: 5
You mean that Microsoft took their crummy consumer OS core and hacked the interface of their vastly superior corporate OS onto it and called it Vista? Oh wait, no they didn't.

Comparing Vista and Me to each other just shows that you really have no idea what you are talking about.

Me was unpopular because it was unstable and finicky. Vista is unpopular because of UI changes that many people find annoying and poor performance on older hardware. The only similarity is that people complained about both OS', actually they complained about XP too.

Use it or don't use it, just don't make ridiculous statements that you have no factual basis for.

RE: Windows ME?
By beyazkeyat on 3/13/2008 4:13:32 PM , Rating: 3
People complain with every new MS OS release. It's the nature of the beast. I try to ignore it but it's RIDICULOUS with Vista. People see these "reviews" on the internet and just say OH IT SUCKS without actually using it. Kind of frustrating to me honestly.

I reserved my comments until I used Vista and then made my decision. I got it on my laptop about 6 months ago and love it to death. It's to the point now where I don't like using XP anymore because I like the way things in Vista work better. Sure it has its problems, but in my experience it's had fewer problems than XP did at initial release. The only problem I've had personally was with an Intel driver. File copying is a bit slow but it wasn't that bad and I don't really consider it an issue. Overall I've had one bluescreen in six months, and it was nVidia driver related.

So from me personally to all the Vista naysayers, suck it. ;) haha

RE: Windows ME?
By Tewt on 3/13/2008 10:30:35 PM , Rating: 3
Yeah, can't wait to spend money on something I don't need. Not one Vista supporter has provided reason why I 'need' to change to Vista. Is there something so world-shattering on Vista that I cannot do on XP? I can still play games, surf the internet, write documents, email and edit video. XP still supports all the latest hardware. We are not talking typewriter versus word processing here. I see no reason to upgrade. When my video editing app fully supports 64 bit and I can install 8Gb RAM for better previewing effects, I will feel there is a benefit to Vista or whatever OS. I don't care about sucks or doesn't suck. Can it do more for me than XP can? No, it can't so it is a waste of money.

RE: Windows ME?
By djc208 on 3/14/2008 9:36:26 AM , Rating: 1
Well I've said it before and I'll say it again. I still think MS should have made Vista a 64-bit only OS. The hardware requirements limited the number of 32-bit CPUs that would be trying to run it. It would have given it one clear distinction over XP and helped pull in more of the high-end crowd as well as forcing the transition to a 64-bit world. Most home users wouldn't have noticed or cared, and it would have simplified the devlopment efforts.

Otherwise I'm with you, Vista is nifty and ther are a few nice features but not enough right now to make me drop the money and upgrade my perfectly useable XP machines.

RE: Windows ME?
By Gatt on 3/14/2008 1:24:05 AM , Rating: 1
I agree.

When Win95 released I had to listen to "OMG, Dos is just fine, and Win95 is a resource hog, it won't sell!"

When Win98 released I had to listen to "OMG, Win95 is just fine, and Win98 is a resource hog, it won't sell!"

When WinME released, it was "OMG, Win98 is just fine, and WinME is a resource hog, it won't sell!"(They were right on this one)

When it was XP's turn it was "OMG, Win98 is just fine, and XP's just a resource hog, it won't sell!"

Today? "OMG, Vista's a resource hog, XP's just fine, Vista won't sell!"

Exact same list of complaints with every generation of Windows, and it was only right once. What's the biggest complaints? Warning boxes and slow file copying? Warning boxes can be patched out if it's a huge issue for MS.

As far as file copying goes, seriously, non-techies don't defrag, and they usually have 80 spyware programs running. They aren't going to notice if Vista's copying slow.

Seriously, tell me about hardware incompatabilites, or Blue-screens as why it's not worth it. But if it's the same "Resource Hog" thing that I've read with every Windows iteration, just let it go already. I mean seriously, XP's using half a gig of memory on my system right now and I'm not running anything major. When it released, half a gig was all the memory most people had on their machines.

RE: Windows ME?
By robinthakur on 3/14/2008 10:59:00 AM , Rating: 2
Not to mention the fact that Vista pre-allocates alot of memory at startup, it doesn't necessarily USE all of it. I view Windows 7 as a face saving mechanism for MS to continue developing Vista and a minor release. I like and use vista on a daily basis and its fine. Having said that certain things in it don't work properly (as in they don't work as well as in XP!) such as the wireless networking. Whenever i leave the house, having connected to another wifi network elsewhere, it takes HOURS to reconnect automatically to my wifi. Its actually quicker to reboot the router so it reassigns the IP address. This never used to happen with XP or with my old macbook pro, so its surprising that its still happening with Vista post SP1. This is on a laptop from HP which comes shipped with Vista premium btw. I have tried hotfixes even non published ones, to no avail.

My point is that if I didn't use vista on the desktop and ONLY used it on my laptop, I'd be pulling my hair out. It does seem to be very dependant on hardware config for certain peripherals.

RE: Windows ME?
By beyazkeyat on 3/14/2008 2:37:05 PM , Rating: 2
Yeah, that's strange. I have no problem with the wireless networking on my laptop at all. Connects automatically to the networks I tell it to without issue. I'm running Vista Ultimate, though. Not that there's any difference wireless wise. (that I'm aware of, anyway.)

"It looks like the iPhone 4 might be their Vista, and I'm okay with that." -- Microsoft COO Kevin Turner

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