DailyTech - After Upgrading to 120GB, Let's Sell Our Old 20GB HDDs to Xbox 360 Core Owners

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Blog: Hardware After Upgrading to 120GB, Let's Sell Our Old 20GB HDDs to Xbox 360 Core Owners
Marcus Yam (Blog) - March 28, 2007 3:13 PM

19 comment(s) - last by Aikouka.. on Apr 2 at 5:41 AM

Pricey, but much needed

Microsoft isn't getting rid of the Core, but we can still help to make HDD-less Xbox 360s a thing of the past

I’m totally floored that Microsoft has finally decided to announce a larger hard drive for the Xbox 360, but I’m only mildly keen on the Xbox 360 Elite. Of course, given the choice between the two consoles today, I’d take the Elite without question, but the addition of HDMI isn’t enough for me to pay the difference to upgrade. Maybe I’m just being complacently satisfied with my crusty old analog VGA output, but it looks good enough for me.

My only beef with the 120GB add-on is the price, and at $180, I know that I’m not alone. But I understand Microsoft’s pricing. Figure this: the Core system costs $300, and to bring the Core up to Premium’s 20GB storage by buying the original hard drive would cost $100. Premium Xbox 360 owners, in essence, get the wireless controller and component cables for free. Now adding 120GB to the Core system bring the final cost to $480, the same as the Elite, so upcoming black Xbox owners are essentially getting a wireless controller and an HDMI cable for free.

Everything falls in-line with Microsoft’s pricing. Yes, I believe Microsoft’s accessories are overpriced (don’t even get me started on the wireless adapter) but at least no Xbox 360 owner will feel more ripped off than the other will. Of course, this is all assuming that the Core system still has its place in the market, which I firmly believe that it does not.

I’m a business major, so I have a firm grasp on the marketing aspects of “offering customers choice” and penetrating different segments of the market. It seems to make great sense to offer a relatively inexpensive “base” model that users can later upgrade to a higher spec. Hell, it works for the car enthusiasts, who may purchase a Honda Civic as a base car, later to only acquire OEM Type-R upgrades for a little bit more of the “VTEC just kicked in, YO!”

As a hardcore gamer, however, it just bothers me that Xbox 360 developers even have to consider making their games for a system without a hard drive. One of the strengths of the original Xbox was that every console included the hard drive. Developers could count on it being there, even if it was only eight gigs. Sony realizes the value of every machine having a hard drive, which the company makes sure that we do not forget.

Consider the Xbox 360 Core purchaser, who has to buy some form of storage to save games. Obviously, no Core buyer would purchase the $100 20GB hard drive, as they would simply pick up the Premium pack, he or she would have to shell out at least another $30-50 for a memory unit. Mind you, the smaller, cheaper 64MB memory unit seems pretty worthless after the introduction of Xbox Live Arcade. The 512MB unit seems to a bit more sense, but anyone interested in upgraded their Xbox Live experience would do much better to just spend double the money to get at least 25 times more storage.

Short of Microsoft canning the Core pack, the best thing that could happen to Xbox 360 is if all owners of 20GB drives would sell (or donate) their now-puny hard drives to Core owners after upgrading to 120GB. From the sounds of it, transferring data from the 20GB to the 120GB drive will automatically format the 20GB drive, making it instantly ready for a sale or hand-me-down.

If I could sell my 20GB drive for $50, then I’d be a little more satisfied to pay $130 difference for the upgrade to 120GB. I’d also feel pretty happy with myself after helping a lesser Xbox 360 catch up to the current gen.

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"gypped"

By pheffern on 3/28/2007 6:09:41 PM , Rating: 3

May want to rephrase - not to be a PC Nazi, but gypped is a derogatory reference to the stereotypical image of gypsies (or Romany) as thieves. I know several people of Romany descent, all are offended by the term.

Again, just a thought, don't mean it as an attack!

RE: "gypped"

By Marcus Yam on 3/28/2007 7:06:16 PM , Rating: 2

Wow, I was not aware of that. You learn something every day. My apologies.

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Moderated

By somegeek on 3/28/07, Rating: -1

RE: "gypped"

By KristopherKubicki

(blog) on 3/28/2007 11:03:47 PM , Rating: 2

You're getting close to a vacation. First and last warning.

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RE: "gypped"

By somegeek on 3/29/07, Rating: -1

RE: "gypped"

By Chillin1248 on 3/29/2007 5:35:24 AM , Rating: 2

I have a feeling that you should start listening to this song in preparation of your departure:

Peter, Paul, and Mary - Leaving on a Jet Plane

-------
Chillin

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RE: "gypped"

By somegeek on 3/29/07, Rating: -1

RE: "gypped"

By bubbacub616 on 3/31/2007 9:40:46 AM , Rating: 2

gee what did you say?

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RE: "gypped"

By BladeVenom on 3/29/2007 10:59:30 PM , Rating: 2

There's no evidence that gypped came from Gypsies. Gypped is an American word, and there's not many Roma people here so there's not really a reason to believe that's the source of the word.

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RE: "gypped"

By bubbacub616 on 3/31/2007 9:58:07 AM , Rating: 2

Gypped is a slang verb which comes directly from the word gypsy which is thousands of years old ,(i believe it is of greek origin who thought that the roma (gypsies) were of egyption origin (they arn't - they are from north west india)).

If you are making the point that this piece of slang was NOT made from the word gypsy and came up independently then i'm afraid you are wrong.

If you are saying that the verb "to gyp" was derived from the word gypsy at some point in the last few hundred years then there is no way of proving/disproving your statement as I don't believe there are any established records of the derivation of slang across the atlantic for the past one thousand years to definitively resolve the implications of your statement.

p.s. Also there are thought to be 1 million roma in the USA - making up roughly 12% of the total world poplulation of roma - though given the nature of this social groups interartions with society as whole we cannot be 100% sure of these figures

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roma_people

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You dont understand th purpose of the core

By Sharky974 on 3/29/2007 6:20:22 PM , Rating: 3

The Core is not for early adopters, aka the people who are buying 360 now, it's for down the road, as the mass market gets in. A lot of those people dont care about a HDD, and would just rather buy a cheaper unit. Also, supposedly it helps in "price sensitive" markets in other parts of the World, lets say India or even Europe. In India they are short on money, generally speaking, of course.

I really dont understand why people want the HDD standard. They say so the devs can use it. Use it for what? PS2 didn't have a HDD, and it happened to dominate the Xbox which did have one standard. Obviously consumers dont care. Wii doesn't have one, why not? It's also outselling both consoles that do have one.

There was a lot of bullshit about standard HDD allowing somehow, improved gameplay, back when the core was announced. Most people would say it helped streaming. Well, we've now been through two generations that proved that to be totally bullshit. PS2 didn't have any cut back games because of lack of HDD, and PS3 doesn't have any better games because of standard HDD. It plays the same games as 360.

So if there's no gameplay advantage, which is a proven fact, why make it standard? Why make someone who doesn't want it pay for it?

The only real reason to have a HDD is if you have Live, You have broadband, and basically, you're a hardcore gamer. The only real use of the HDD is a repository for downloaded stuff. You dont even need the HDD to game online. The fact is a ton of casuals dont care about that stuff. And if they do care later, the option is there to buy it at any time.

Believe me, I know all this from Xbox days. The fact is the integrated HDD in that machine was a glorified memory card. That's essentially all I used it for, and who knows how many other countless millions never did anything but save a few hundred kilobytes of games to it, and left 7.9 GB sitting there. I'd venture the majority. Now, today Live has improved to where there's much more worth downloading, of course.

The real problem is HDD costs dont decrease like other components. There's a platter, arm, spindle etc. It's mechanical and will always cost X dollars, unlike the silicon in a console wich will steadily decrease in price. That's why the core will be great at hitting low price points, 199 and below, fastest. And getting those casuals. It's a great market move, and honestly I feel really sorry for Sony with that expensive integrated HDD. It's really going to hurt them down the road when they are trying to cut price really low, just like it hurt Xbox1. Try making a $149 box when it's got a $50 HDD in it that just never gets cheaper. Now you've got the Xbox1 market model which happened to lose billions (not all because of the HDD, but it was a big part).

Also, this is bizzare but MS once said their market research shows a lot of gamers never buy a memory card. They said some people just play one game of madden at a time on their console, and things like that. They never save and dont want a mem card. Again it sounds weird but knowing just how casual some casuals are, I'm sure it's true. Also, the 64 MB mem card was cut to $29, so the bare bones price of entry with core is pretty significantly lower than Premium.

Anyway, since it's proven fact the HDD does not offer any improved gameplay, wanting it to be standard is a clearly illogical position, period.

RE: You dont understand th purpose of the core

By rdeegvainl on 3/30/2007 9:14:54 AM , Rating: 3

I disagree with some of your opinions. Being that the only reason to have the HDD is if your a harcore gamer? No. but i won't get into that. You say that HDD prices don't drop like the the other parts is just plain ludicrious.
"The real problem is HDD costs dont decrease like other components. There's a platter, arm, spindle etc. It's mechanical and will always cost X dollars"
WRONG! http://www.littletechshoppe.com/ns1625/winchest.ht...
Check it out, or do your own search, this is just what i got off google in less than one second. i will highlite some things for you.
1956
IBM 5 megabytes U$50,000 U$10,000 per mb
1981 December
Note 31 VR Data Corp. 6.3 megabytes U$2895 U$460 per mb
1995 April
Note 24 240 megabytes $250.00 $1.26 per mb
2000 April 1
Note 69 IBM 20.5 gigabytes $279.00 $15.65 per gb
2004 April 16
Note 102 Western Digital Caviar SE
7200rpm 1 250 gigabytes $249.99 $1.15 per gb
The cost does go down. and exponentially.

The only reason the prices aren't getting cheaper for the microsoft harddrives is they are using them as cash cows.

Before you start talking about knowing stuff from the xbox days about uselessnes, realize that many people used it then for storage of things like, music, to make their own soundtracks to games. I would say that might have a great chance to improve gameplay.

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RE: You dont understand th purpose of the core

By Aikouka on 4/2/2007 5:41:29 AM , Rating: 2

Actually, he's pretty much correct and you're just looking at a totally different aspect of it.

He's talking about (essentially) everything physical.

You're talking about everything technological.

Sure, the price of the components will possibly come down. The PCBs may end up being cheaper over the years and the motors may be smaller, more efficient and cheaper, but they're still an overhead cost for a HDD, which is what he's trying to say.

Although, I don't agree with him that a HDD in a console is a bad thing.

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RE: You dont understand th purpose of the core

By therealnickdanger on 3/30/2007 11:02:43 AM , Rating: 2

quote:
...Anyway, since it's proven fact the HDD does not offer any improved gameplay, wanting it to be standard is a clearly illogical position, period.

Your "proven fact" is not accurate. Many Xbox 360 games do, in FACT, utilize the HDD for caching if it is present. This reduces load times for levels, menus, etc. This is stated specifically on the Xbox website and discussed at length in individual developer forums and interviews. These slight advantages might not matter to you, but they do make a measureable difference.

Since support for the HDD is not required, the effects are not as noticeable, but many developers (Epic, Bethesda, 2K Games, etc.) take advantage of it anyway. No matter how you slice it, you can't argue that a DVD-ROM has higher transfer rates than a HDD. They are just certain aspects of games that benefit from increased transfer rates to main memory.

You speak of logic, but compare PS2 sales versus Xbox sales as reasoning for HDD? They were completely different, basically not even in the same league. The PS2 was hugely successful due to the PS1, developer support, and their undisputed, year-long launch lead. The Xbox was absoutely new, had no legacy, and was certainly more powerful and capable. The biggest draw for the Xbox were features like custom soundtracks, no need for memory cards, downloadable content, reduced or no loading times, as well as better graphics and audio. It delivered on all those things because of the hard drive.

What's this about PS2 games not "cut back"? I would sound like a broken record if I went down the list of PS2 games that weren't as technically good as their Xbox counterpart. Sure, you can get the same game that controls the same on both the PS2 and Xbox, but I don't recall one single PS2 game that provided a better experience than its Xbox cousin. When review time came, the Xbox version always received higher marks. We can't, obviously, attribute this all to the HDD, but you can't tell me that all the extra features supplied by the HDD didn't make an impact on gameplay, graphics, or audio.

Not only was your argument regarding PS2 vs Xbox illogical, but it also doesn't apply to the current state of Core vs Premium. Check it:

The Core serves its function as an entry-level machine, but I think its days are seriously numbered. Look at the direction games are taking: episodic content, downloadable content, online-only distribution... Yeah, I'm sure there are some gamers out there that just put in a game and play it without saving, but given that the Premium far outweighs the Core in sales (can't find link, but I recall it being in the vicinity of 6:1), the majority clearly want what the hard drive can offer.

Whether that majority is seeking backward compatibility, expansion packs, TV shows, Arcade games, or other forms of DLC, they know that memory cards won't cut it. Consumers want the hard drive for performance and storage. Developers want the hard drive for performance and storage. There isn't a question about what is better, we know what is better, the answer is clear: the hard drive should be required. The only reason the Core isn't a mistake is because a HDD can be added easily. However, it ultimately brings Xbox360 gaming down a notch for everyone... but not a big notch.

Sony realized this after being publically tea-bagged by the Xbox's attractive features and online revenue generators. They attempted, and failed, to add a HDD late in the PS2's life (since FF11 was impossible without one). They saw the light and wisely placed one in the PS3.

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RE: You dont understand th purpose of the core

By bubbacub616 on 3/31/2007 10:01:13 AM , Rating: 2

How the hell do you group india as being in the same group as europe with regard to having problems affording the Xbox?

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Fuzzt world

By oTAL on 3/29/2007 6:15:41 AM , Rating: 2

Donating the hard drive for the pleasure of helping others.... I guess we both share this distorted vision of our world where everyone cares about other people's well being... it's a shame that once in a while reality kicks in...
As a PC enthusiast I know that if you sold the drive for $10 and it broke after a year, you would probably still have to refund your friend and apologize for his lost data... else he would think you tricked him with a defective HD or worse...

To hell with MS

By bldckstark on 3/29/2007 1:30:34 PM , Rating: 2

Datel makes an adapter to connect your 360 to your PC so you can have all the storage you want. The only catch is that you have to manually transfer items back and forth. Only $50 too.

http://us.codejunkies.com/news_reviews.asp?c=US&cr...

That would push me over the edge

By rdeegvainl on 3/29/2007 2:27:40 PM , Rating: 2

If someone offered me there old 20gb HDD for the Xbox 360, that would be just the push i need to get me into the next gen. I can't afford 400, 480, 500 or 600. I can barely afford the 300, and no way can i justify paying incredible amounts for a memory stick. I would love a core system and a donated HD. I really want a new system. I really really do. But I also really want to responsibly take care of my family more. OH THE AGONY! If you would like to donate your hdd just send it to me :D i can only hope!

The Core is great for at least one thing

By JCheng on 3/30/2007 4:50:28 AM , Rating: 2

The Xbox 360 is currently the only Media Center Extender for Vista--and it does an excellent job at it. Since all MCX content is always streamed to the Xbox from the PC, the hard drive is unnecessary.

You can also add the $200 HD-DVD drive (it doesn't require a hard drive, does it?) and for $500 you have a high performance HD-DVD player (albeit without HDCP).