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Treaty could redraw privacy climate on both sides of the Atlantic

The United States Department of Homeland Security (DHS) may soon have access to private data on European citizens, thanks to a new transatlantic treaty nearing the long road towards ratification.

Brokered by “high-level contact groups” between U.S. and European security officials, the data-sharing pact could give DHS officials access to credit card, travel and even internet browsing histories of EU citizens for antiterrorism purposes, such as screening airline manifests for suspicious passengers.

An internal report seen by the New York Times says that the treaty was drawn up due to the stark differences in privacy laws between the United States and EU member nations. Strict data-sharing regulations in Europe make it difficult for American investigators to hunt for suspicious activity, creating heady disputes that “frayed” diplomatic relations and “required difficult negotiations to resolve.”

One of the biggest remaining snags revolves around how Europeans can seek redress for mistakes by the U.S.  Europe wants to allow its citizens the ability to sue the U.S. government when action is taken against them due to faulty data, in a similar fashion afforded to both U.S. and EU citizens in their own countries. The Bush Administration, which seeks to finish the treaty and have it signed before leaving in January, would rather have complaints addressed administratively due to the fact that granting EU citizens the right to sue would require new, time-consuming legislation.

Combined with a recent European push towards monitoring the activity of its citizens – a feat previously unworkable due to a lack of technological advancement – a data-sharing agreement could result in the U.S. acquiring large amounts of data on EU citizens collected by newly-mandated surveillance systems.

A number of European countries voiced objections to the accord, citing a variety of violations to their respective privacy laws – which are typically far stricter than laws in the U.S. Further compounding differences between U.S. and EU privacy laws is the question of oversight -- European governments employ independent public agencies to oversee privacy enforcement, whereas the U.S. handles such tasks internally. As it stands right now, it appears the European government will concede the point due to its finding the U.S. government’s internal oversight and accountability to be more than sufficient for handling EU data.

“The reason it’s a big deal is that it is going to lower the whole transaction cost for the U.S. government to get information from Europe,” said University of California, Berkeley law professor Paul M. Schwartz. “Most of the negotiations will already be completed. They will just be able to say, ‘Look, we provide adequate protection, so you’re required to turn it over.’”

The treaty includes exemptions for certain kinds of data, including information that tells a person’s political opinions, race, religion, health or “sexual life” – but only if domestic law fails to provide “appropriate safeguards.”

UK newspaper The Guardian points out that the French government, which will gain six-month presidency of the EU today, is keen to see the treaty’s passage.

“Everybody's keen on this and sees the benefit of it. The French are very keen to continue the work,” said a senior EU official. “There's all sorts of information stored on computers nowadays that may be of interest to law enforcement agencies. If we reach agreement, we may well contemplate turning it into a binding international agreement.”

The U.S. claims that increased data-sharing is an important component of its Visa Waiver Program available to a variety of countries, including many EU member nations.

“This will require compromise,” said Google privacy counsel Peter Fleischer. “It will require people to agree on a framework that balances two conflicting issues: privacy and security. But the need to develop that kind of framework is becoming more important as more data moves onto the Internet and circles across the global architecture.”



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Lol the Irony
By Reclaimer77 on 7/1/2008 7:53:51 AM , Rating: 4
Europe has some of the weakest privacy rights of any civilized society. In the UK there is a camera on every public corner. Most of Europe has warrantless home breaching and wiretapping. One could go on and on.

Suddenly the US gets involved and everyone is putting their foot down on here ? Lol.. oh man this is classic.




RE: Lol the Irony
By 1078feba on 7/1/08, Rating: 0
RE: Lol the Irony
By erikejw on 7/1/2008 10:48:53 AM , Rating: 4
Yes, despite being a double Oscar winner and one of the most famous actors in the world, this wasn't enough to throw US airport officials off the scent that he could actually be a fundamentalist Islamic suicide bomber. He fitted the profile, you see...

http://www.holymoly.co.uk/news/28/michael-caine-de...


RE: Lol the Irony
By ShadowZERO on 7/1/2008 5:44:41 PM , Rating: 2
LOL! thats one of the funniest news articles I've ever read, albeit from an outspoken UK tabloid. Sad thing is, its probably true.

Just seeing the (intentionally?)terrible photoshop made me laugh. Watch out, its Osama Bin Caine !!!


RE: Lol the Irony
By plinkplonk on 7/1/2008 8:07:49 AM , Rating: 1
did any of us say we were happy about any of those things in the first place? you may think its ironic but i think this is all bullshit


RE: Lol the Irony
By MRwizard on 7/2/2008 3:58:04 AM , Rating: 2
I have to agree, i dont like the fact people are waching my every bloody move


RE: Lol the Irony
By Aloonatic on 7/1/2008 8:12:45 AM , Rating: 2
The only saving grace of the UK is the poor standard of civil servants and their general incompetence.

There are a lot of CCTV camera's but most of them out of focus, and those that aren't probably don't have a tap in (that is useful and not over written a million times) the recorder or actually works.

They really aren't much to be worried about, but the other legislation that has been bought in in the name or terror is frankly outrageous, see my post above.


RE: Lol the Irony
By AntiM on 7/1/2008 8:28:04 AM , Rating: 2
There's another irony at work here as well. If you think about it, the internet is a government's worst nightmare, and at the same time, it's wildest wet dream come true. It allows citizens to communicate and critcize in an unprecedented manner. For example, the story we're talking about; I doubt you'll hear about it on any major TV news media outlet. But we know about it, and can discuss it.

At the same time, a person can hardly take a crap anymore without leaving some kind of electronic trail. For a government interested in controlling it's citizens, it couldn't ask for a better situation.

It's getting more difficult for citizens to hide from their government, and at the same time making it more difficult for the government to hide from its citizens. I think governments have a slight upper hand, since they pretty much control the pipes. But a person could remain somewhat private if they never used a credit card, never had an internet or phone connection, and never had a job, never traveled by plane...


RE: Lol the Irony
By Screwballl on 7/1/2008 11:25:49 AM , Rating: 4
quote:
But a person could remain somewhat private if they never used a credit card, never had an internet or phone connection, and never had a job, never traveled by plane...


(serious post)
Nice to meet you. I am a US citizen so I do have a SS# and have had legal jobs that I have paid taxes on since I was 13. I have never had a CC in my life under my own name, I keep my internet information private and secure (I am a system admin so I have my ways), I have had a landline phone that was rarely used for all my life, I use prepaid cell phones so no private info out there, and I have NEVER traveled by plane. Yet I have been coast to coast in the US on road trips in a car and I have never left the US and never needed to. I have no legal record (other than a few speeding tickets around the ages of 18-21). I have only minor items on my medical record (a car accident in 2004, and they were surprised they could not find any previous record of me in any national medical databases at the age of 26).
If anyone is flying under the radar as much as possible, it would be me. This will make it that much easier when I run for president in 2012 or 2016.


RE: Lol the Irony
By Oregonian2 on 7/1/2008 1:11:39 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
If anyone is flying under the radar as much as possible, it would be me. This will make it that much easier when I run for president in 2012 or 2016.


You don't have an over extended credit card? You're not qualified to be president! Having experience in over-extended borrowing is a requirement!!!

:-)


RE: Lol the Irony
By Screwballl on 7/1/2008 2:26:00 PM , Rating: 2
Thats why I will try to run... I have traveled across this country and have seen what needs to be changed from both parties about many things across the US...


RE: Lol the Irony
By Oregonian2 on 7/2/2008 1:36:16 PM , Rating: 2
You'll need to bring a whole new Congress with you. Good luck with that.


RE: Lol the Irony
By glitchc on 7/1/2008 11:46:05 PM , Rating: 2
Not to be a fly in your ointment, but isn't it illegal to be paid for work at the age of 13? You cannot work legally until you're at least 16 or 18, depending on where you come from. Child labour laws and all.


RE: Lol the Irony
By oab on 7/2/2008 12:03:24 AM , Rating: 2
You can be a paperboy or whatnot prior to the age of 16. There are exceptions to those child labour laws.


RE: Lol the Irony
By callmeroy on 7/2/2008 8:37:12 AM , Rating: 2
That's well and good but...

If you have a legal job --- you have information out there.

If you pay taxes --- you have information out there.

If the above two don't apply to you - you are either a mooch off your folks or someone else or you going to have a lot more things to worry about than being private on the Internet.


RE: Lol the Irony
By stepone on 7/1/2008 9:46:21 AM , Rating: 4
I can pretty much see how this will be used...

Person with strange sounding (possibly muslim) name gets flagged on airline passenger list to the US.

Quick background check reveals he's visited pakistan several times!!! Albeit to visit relatives (a likely excuse).

What's this?! He's also visited some pakistani news websites that don't exactly sing the praises of the U.S or Bush!

If he's even allowed to fly to the US he's then wisked away to Guantanamo by the Bay for a nice 2 year vacation while his entire life is gone over with a fine-tooth comb.

But don't worry because a gormless Washington bureaucrat will ensure that your rights aren't violated!

I feel safer already...


RE: Lol the Irony
By JoeBanana on 7/1/2008 1:23:07 PM , Rating: 2
1. Read the article...
2. And you are addressing the whole Europe not EU, for which the article was written. I must point out that majority of non EU states don't have the appropriate laws in this area to be accepted in the union.


RE: Lol the Irony
By lompocus on 7/1/2008 11:55:00 PM , Rating: 2
I tell you all time and time again: This site is racist!


Such Bullsh*t
By SiN on 7/1/2008 7:23:07 AM , Rating: 3
Thats bull, i for one dont want US government officials checking up on me and accusing me of terrorism because i like to see how things work. I could tell your how to make a dirty bomb, its easy enough to construct, and then they would get me on terrorism charges, where as i see it more like freedom of information.

That and the usual debate that rages on here about unfair legal cases against those who pirate. sucks.

It looks like a Global Government is finally comming to fruitation, i for one dont like it. All great civ's come to an end for one reason or another, its human history and nature.

Im all for the prevention of terrorism, but these guys are looking in all the wrong places, and using all the wrong tactics, the 9/11 threat came from eastern europe, not within the EU or USA. Now we all get imprissoned and monitored and for what?

Back to the piracy thing, give us a fair price and you wont get pirated. You bastards!




RE: Such Bullsh*t
By FITCamaro on 7/1/2008 7:59:24 AM , Rating: 2
What does piracy have to do with terrorism?

And like it or not, there are a lot of radical Muslims living in the EU. Those are likely to be the ones the US government focuses on.

I agree that global government is bad because personally, I hate the UN since the US pretty much foots the bill while taking all the crap. And it means that other countries can try to tell the US what to do.


RE: Such Bullsh*t
By callmeroy on 7/2/2008 8:43:20 AM , Rating: 2
I agree this guy lost me on the piracy thing. But since he brought it up -- I hate how things are priced when it comes to games and movies (dvds) BUT as much as folks get tired of hearing it I'm sure, it doesn't change the fact that its true --"Just because you think something is unfairly priced is no excuse for stealing it". And piracy is stealing, color it how you like, explain away why you do it ...but in the end its still stealing.

As the world government, I don't want to strike a religious chore on here but isn't one of the things the Bible describes approaching the end times is one single government ruling over all and all of us with a mark?

Believer or not.....some info from the bible is eerie similarly to what is happening in reality.


RE: Such Bullsh*t
By Aloonatic on 7/1/2008 8:07:39 AM , Rating: 4
I live in the UK and things have gotten pretty out of hand already.

The Shadow (opposition/conservative) home secretary (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Home_Secretary) has resigned his seat and is standing for re-election on a stand point that civil liberties are being and have been eroded, most notably because of the 42 days detention without charge bill which was forced though by Chairman Brown.

It used to be that in order to open my mail or tap my phone line the police would have to go to the home secretary and get it signed off in person.

As it is now, there are many bodies that can look into my bank account details, e-mails, browsing history etc etc etc...

Even the food standards agency can (http://www.food.gov.uk/aboutus/ They are on the list of agencies that have these powers now) if someone can think of a half decent excuse and catch his boss on a good day.

It's getting out of control.

You cant defend freedom and liberty by taking it away and destroying it yourself.

These laws always get abused, here's a few examples of how counter terro laws are used in the UK

Children spied on to see if they were going to the correct school:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1584713/Poo...

Surveillance of under-age smokers (maybe because baddies in films are always smoking?):

http://icbirmingham.icnetwork.co.uk/sundaymercury/...

Further info:

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/law...


RE: Such Bullsh*t
By sporr on 7/1/2008 11:02:49 AM , Rating: 2
Oh dear.


RE: Such Bullsh*t
By MrBlastman on 7/1/2008 11:03:50 AM , Rating: 1
Call it bull all you want, it is true what you say that most terrorists come from the Middle East but you forget that:

a. They are typically Muslim/Islamic
b. They travel through Europe to reach America

Europe has an exploding Muslim/Islamic population. It is being overrun. If Europe is not careful, it could quickly become the next Middle East.

THIS is why it is a good idea. If they want to move to Europe, they still can not hide. Tough, but this is how it is.


RE: Such Bullsh*t
By FITCamaro on 7/1/2008 8:43:54 PM , Rating: 1
Funny how one of the most truthful posts here gets rated down.


This wont be enough
By stilltrying on 7/1/2008 11:40:09 AM , Rating: 4
And pretty soon even these measures wont be enough. They will then have to remove everyone from their homes to newly built government cities to keep an even better watch on terrorism. Its all designed and planned. Time to wake up for those still asleep.




RE: This wont be enough
By FITCamaro on 7/1/2008 1:18:36 PM , Rating: 2
You chose to live in your little socialist paradise. You live with the consequences.


RE: This wont be enough
By sinful on 7/1/2008 2:17:51 PM , Rating: 4
quote:
You chose to live in your little socialist paradise. You live with the consequences.


Yeah, death by terrorist attack falls right up there by death by lightning strike and death by bathtub accidents.

Where would we be without the Department of Weather Security keeping us safe from lightning strikes?

I don't think our founding fathers could have anticipated weather events like "El Nino".

And with the summer coming around, and this "heat lightning" threat, I think the only logical conclusion is to hide in my basement, safe & sound. Let those hippie communist socialist Liberal nutjobs walk around outside. They can enjoy their socialist paradise.

We'll see who has the last laugh when they get struck by lightning!


RE: This wont be enough
By stilltrying on 7/1/2008 5:07:20 PM , Rating: 2
um FIT, i'm on your side. im no socialist was just explaining to others that soon enough they will be reading some government scheme to urbanize the rural folk so they can we can be safer (with the watchful eye of the GOV, of course), which by the way to me is a no thanks, ill try my chances in the wilderness alone if need be


The Goverment are the Criminals
By drunkenmastermind on 7/1/2008 8:38:11 AM , Rating: 1
and the people that run them. They all just make the rules to suit themselves and it seems we can't do shit about it.




RE: The Goverment are the Criminals
By FITCamaro on 7/1/2008 9:30:39 AM , Rating: 2
You vote to elect someone different.


By Polynikes on 7/1/2008 1:27:23 PM , Rating: 2
I vote libertarian but it doesn't help.

Good thing I've got backup.


RE: The Goverment are the Criminals
By Noya on 7/1/2008 8:07:01 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
You vote to elect someone different.


Yeah, in an honest, just democracy. But back in the real world those don't exist.


By drunkenmastermind on 7/2/2008 3:02:59 AM , Rating: 2
Presidents are not elected they are selected! The image that heads this article, the all seeing eye representing the Illuminati, they say what's what!


So...
By Proteusza on 7/1/2008 7:32:38 AM , Rating: 2
What does the EU get out of this?




RE: So...
By sporr on 7/1/2008 7:35:55 AM , Rating: 2
Something, but nothing the public will know of. :(


RE: So...
By Polynikes on 7/1/2008 1:25:41 PM , Rating: 2
The same data of US citizens, no doubt. The only question is when.


i can not believe this one!
By CyberHawk on 7/1/2008 7:47:36 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
DHS officials access to credit card , travel and even internet browsing histories of EU citizens...


I can not believe what I am reading. I don't want some foreign government (which is well known of supporting both sides which were in war) to spy on me/us because of it's "anti terrorist effort".

This things are going too far!




RE: i can not believe this one!
By DarkElfa on 7/1/2008 2:15:40 PM , Rating: 2
Ha-Ha, we drink your milkshake!

No, but seriously, countries need to worry about their own citizens and not try to watch others, that isn't fair or right in my opinion and I'm an American.


Sharing is good, unless...
By sporr on 7/1/2008 7:21:10 AM , Rating: 2
I am all for sharing the knowledge as long as it is used properly and carefully and within the law.

If the US wishes to know this data they must also compensate if they mistakes, if such events were to occur, which may be inevitable.

However, I cannot see myself personally agreeing with this, if they will not agree to be held liable for such data loss or misuse.

France will play ball to practically anything anyway. :o




Visa Waiver system = Hilarious
By jabber on 7/2/2008 7:11:27 AM , Rating: 2
Whilst I'm not keen on what seems like every idiot in some form of authority around the world having acess to my whole life history, the Visa waier system in the US is really odd.

You fill out the green form (which is poorly designed to start with, probably intentionally as it says at one part "do not write below this line" but then you have to date and sign it slightly lower, causes much hilarity in immigration queues) and then it asks the following searching questions designed by top criminal psychologists to trip up any miscreant straight away.

1. Have you ever been a member of the Nazi party? Y/N

2. Have you ever been involved in genocide? Y/N

3. Have you ever been involved in terrorist activities? Y/N

There are a few more questions on this sneaky line.

At the bottom it states "If you have answered 'Yes' to any of the above questions you may wish to consult with your nearest consulate/lawyer etc. etc. "

I think if you are a US citizen arriving in the UK you just have to fill in a little white slip of paper with your address and name. Not nearly as cunning.




OMG
By Kyanzes on 7/2/2008 3:04:17 PM , Rating: 2
Hope it's not too late to cancel my AllOver30.com account... :)




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