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AT&T accuses Google of a vast conspiracy, including using its "monopoly" to control the media, control user's internet traffic, and silence its opponents.  (Source: The Independent)
A new letter from AT&T to the federal government makes it clear that the company has little love for Google

If there's one thing clear from the Google Voice iPhone debacle, it's that there's no love lost between AT&T and Google.  AT&T, to date, is accusing Google of everything from political and news manipulation, to violating net neutrality.

The drama surrounding the rejection began shortly after when the Federal Communications Commission opened an inquiry into who was responsible for the rejection of Google Voice and whether the rejection violated any federal laws or rules.  AT&T quickly responded that it did not mastermind the rejection, and that it was Apple's doing.  Apple followed up, taking the blame and say it was working to get the app approved.

Then came a second response from AT&T.  Apparently in a sharing mood, AT&T sounded off against Google and complained to the FCC that it believes Google Voice breaks the law.  Since AT&T has allowed VoIP apps onto the iPhone, but Google Voice is still no where to be found.  Now AT&T has delivered a third letter to the FCC further attacking the internet giant.

While Google has been attacked by many -- newspaper moguls, telecoms, and internet rivals -- the new letter is perhaps the harshest conglomerated criticism leveled against the company to date.  Written by Robert W. Quinn, Jr., an AT&T Senior Vice President, the letter entitled "Google Voice; Establishing Just and Reasonable Rates for Local Exchange Carriers" opens claiming Google is a hypocrite when it comes to net neutrality.

Mr. Quinn writes:

As the debate regarding “net neutrality” has evolved, it appeared on the surface that all parties shared the same desire to preserve the “free and open” nature of the Internet, a goal enunciated by [FCC] Chairman Genachowski with which we heartily agree."

As communications services increasingly migrate to broadband Internet-based platforms, we can now see the power of Internet-based applications providers to act as gatekeepers who can threaten the “free and open” Internet. Google’s double-standard for “openness” – where Google does what it wants while other providers are subject to Commission regulations – is plainly inconsistent with the goal of preserving a “free and open” Internet ecosystem.

The letter claims that Google's explanation that it is only blocking certain kinds of rural calls like adult sex-chat lines, to avoid high fees leveled against the free service, is a lie.  The letter accuses Google of conspiracy, saying it also blocked calls to an ambulance service, church, bank, law firm, automobile dealer, day spa, orchard, health clinic, tax preparation service, community center, eye doctor, tribal community college, school, residential consumers, a convent of Benedictine nuns, and the campaign office of a U.S. Representative.

According to AT&T, Google is "abus[ing] its market power".  AT&T insists Google is not exempt, either from being free or being internet-based, from federal regulations that prevent such call blocking.

The letter also calls Google a monopoly, citing, "In preparing a complaint to challenge the Google/Yahoo arrangement, the [U.S.] Department [of Justice] reportedly concluded that Google had a “monopoly” in these markets and the proposed arrangement “would have furthered [Google’s] monopoly."

Furthermore, AT&T accuses Google of practicing broad-scale manipulation of the media.  It says that Google blocked political advertisements from Senator Susan Collins, due to her criticism of Moveon.org, a Google net neutrality partner.  It also accuses Google of blocking the Inner City Press from Google News, as the publication criticized the United Nation Development Programme, a Google-sponsored program.

It then goes on to accuse Google of illegitimately "buying" ads in its own auction to push its agenda for keywords such as "net neutrality". The letter concludes, "Ironically, Google appears oblivious to the hypocrisy of its net neutrality advocacy relative to its own conduct. [A]t the same time, Google exploits the dominance of its search engine and its gatekeeping power over other applications to give its preferred content greater visibility than its political opponents’ content or to simply block its competitors’ applications altogether."

"Deliberately narrowing the principles to award Google a special privilege to play by its own rules – or no rules at all – would be grossly unfair, patently unlawful, and a renunciation of President Obama’s assurance that the Commission’s Internet Policy Statement would be used to “ensure there’s a level playing field” between competitors. Thus, the Commission’s first fundamental step in leveling that playing field must be to unequivocally re-affirm in its proposed rulemaking that it will not exempt Google from whatever rules it ultimately adopts."



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ATT vs Google
By 3minence on 10/16/2009 9:29:24 AM , Rating: 5
This really is the pot calling the kettle black. Both Google and ATT are companies who wish to make as much money as possible with as little government interference in their own activities as possible.

The big difference here is that I am an ATT customer and am dissatisfied with the quality of their service for the money I pay them. But I pay Google no money and actually like their service.




RE: ATT vs Google
By straycat74 on 10/16/09, Rating: -1
RE: ATT vs Google
By othercents on 10/16/09, Rating: 0
RE: ATT vs Google
By straycat74 on 10/16/2009 11:44:24 AM , Rating: 5
quote:
Who cares about ALL your communcations?

Google's advertisers. Do you think google doesn't store information? Seriously?
quote:
Are you that important that people would put microphones in your house and follow you around 24/7?

No need. We send them our info. Pretty simple and not even in need of a conspiracy theory. You have a huge wealth of personal information, and a strong political leaning.
quote:
So many people live their lives through their celebrity idols that they get confused that people don't actually care about them. I'm sure that Google doesn't care either, so get over yourself .

I think you were so concerned with spreading your wisdom, you forgot to have a point.


RE: ATT vs Google
By axeman1957 on 10/19/2009 1:32:12 PM , Rating: 3
I think the point is, who cares if Google processes your browsing habits and shows adds that you may actually be interested in? "Oh no, Google knows I look at porn every Tuesday after work before my wife gets home."

The point is the vast majority of us have nothing to hide, and If you do, maybe you should disconnect from the internet and lock yourself in a faraday cadge like the other conspiracy nuts.


RE: ATT vs Google
By carniver on 10/16/2009 12:41:56 PM , Rating: 5
Yeah, and the same set of privacy concerned people would sign up for a twitter account and post constant updates about their daily activities lol


RE: ATT vs Google
By TSS on 10/16/2009 11:38:49 AM , Rating: 1
You're right! lets riot and kill Google!

*a week later*
Well we succesfully killed the google empire. Now i can go back to look at places to spend my holiday at!

lets go to google and.... oh wait....

hmmm... lets try bing.com.....

*several years later outside microsoft's office*

I WAS ONLY LOOKING AT PORN!!! WHY THE CHILDREN STEVE, WHHYYYYYYY!!!!!

*moral of the story*

Search habbits aren't going to change even if google where to dissapear. Personally i search stuff several times a day on the web, if google dies, i'll go to the next one and so will everybody else. Because i can't *find* anything on the web otherwise.

Just be glad Google to the best of our knowledge still handles the data with care. And if they don't just switch to a company who does. If no company does, start your own, there's clearly a gap in the market which last time birthed google.

Oh, and do you remember the pre google days? Yahoo/microsoft splitting the power with a few minor but hardly more efficient engines like askjeeves? I try not to.


RE: ATT vs Google
By dark matter on 10/16/2009 2:42:26 PM , Rating: 2
I used to altavista. Don't know about you hun, but that was before microsoft.


RE: ATT vs Google
By Kenenniah on 10/16/2009 3:29:52 PM , Rating: 3
Don't forget Lycos, Webcrawler, Excite, Infoseek, etc. etc. etc., ALL of which were before Microsoft launched MSN Search, which even still used the other search engines, not its own. Microsoft didn't start using it's own search engine until 2004.


RE: ATT vs Google
By Nik00117 on 10/19/2009 7:24:49 AM , Rating: 3
....Um your a nutter


RE: ATT vs Google
By MatthiasF on 10/16/2009 3:47:46 PM , Rating: 3
And there lies the ignorant, short-sighted attitude that pits the masses against those who provide the actual internet service in favor of those who take advantage of it.

Google doesn't charge YOU, but they sure as hell make tons of money from you. Every ISP people complain about has tons of debt from building the network we all take for granted, but Google has none and continues to roll in dough with incredible 30%+ profits.

So, why does everyone take the side of Google in every issue? They're making massive profits, organizing political movements for their advantage, and stealing more and more from others for their benefit (book scanning, telephone service, etc.). Why aren't they giving a higher percentage of the advertising revenue to the sites that uses Google's ad service? Why aren't they opening up Google Voice calling to everyone like required by a common carrier? Why won't they let watchdogs guarantee their privacy policies are being carried out? Why don't they come clean about how their target ads on Gmail?

Google does very little to provide their service, as shown low operating margins, and cares even less about it's effects on the economy or world. Each new service they roll out is a direct strike at the ISPs that Google owes it's existence. Services that take more bandwidth/traffic, circumvent federal regulations and segregate the Internet more (Wave, Chrome OS).

They're taking more for themselves and giving nothing back. Google has turned into the tech leech that no one seems to notice sucking on their neck.

Another case of a "cool" company marketing themselves out of people's cross-hairs.


RE: ATT vs Google
By William Gaatjes on 10/17/2009 4:36:36 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
Google doesn't charge YOU, but they sure as hell make tons of money from you. Every ISP people complain about has tons of debt from building the network we all take for granted, but Google has none and continues to roll in dough with incredible 30%+ profits.


ISP's have financial problems because they offer products their network cannot support. They cannot upgrade their network because of to much competition in not enough income. That has nothing to do with google but with bad business plans. ISP's just provide the highway. ISP's should not care if it is being used. However ISP's too want to make money and provide services such as streaming video and radio. These services use enormous bandwidth especially since "HD" is the magic word. Yes google provides youtube. And if after a study it seems that the majority of data is youtube related then google and ISP's can have a meeting about joining products. But google is not entitled to anything because it is the customer that wants to look at youtube movies by use of the ISP's. It is not google who forces it upon the customers and therfore upon the ISP's

quote:
So, why does everyone take the side of Google in every issue? They're making massive profits, organizing political movements for their advantage, and stealing more and more from others for their benefit (book scanning, telephone service, etc.). Why aren't they giving a higher percentage of the advertising revenue to the sites that uses Google's ad service? Why aren't they opening up Google Voice calling to everyone like required by a common carrier? Why won't they let watchdogs guarantee their privacy policies are being carried out? Why don't they come clean about how their target ads on Gmail?


It is the way of the future. Or would you like to go to the old days before the times of the electronic calculator ?

quote:
Google does very little to provide their service, as shown low operating margins, and cares even less about it's effects on the economy or world. Each new service they roll out is a direct strike at the ISPs that Google owes it's existence. Services that take more bandwidth/traffic, circumvent federal regulations and segregate the Internet more (Wave, Chrome OS).


What you describe is nonsense. With out a efficient search machine, people would take longer to search and consuming more bandwidth. Google actually lowers bandwidth requirements. What consumes actually bandwidth is all those web2.0 webpages. Use flash for even a simple text that can be done in html. Webpages are getting larger and larger because of content protection schemes. Often do i see that a picture has to be loaded by use of a flash application.
And why ? Ask yourself that...
I was amazed to see huge webpages full of articles and pictures but the webpages where very fast in loading times because it only used java and html. Fun part was this was a (english language) chinese technical review site from china.
It is the ISP's themselves that offer products that their bandwidth limited network can not handle. For example streaming media is ok, but don't blame it on google that your network cannot handle the streaming.

quote:
They're taking more for themselves and giving nothing back. Google has turned into the tech leech that no one seems to notice sucking on their neck.


Prepare yourself for a lovebite from vlad.



RE: ATT vs Google
By William Gaatjes on 10/17/2009 5:08:50 PM , Rating: 2
Problems are already solved :

quote:
Alcatel-Lucent Bell Labs announces new optical transmission record and breaks 100 Petabit per second kilometer barrier

400 DVD's in a second over 7000 kilometers...

http://www.alcatel-lucent.com/wps/portal/!ut/p/kcx...


RE: ATT vs Google
By MatthiasF on 10/17/2009 11:30:40 PM , Rating: 2
Impressive, but imagine how powerful the router would need to be to handle that kind of traffic.

Not going to be cheap!


RE: ATT vs Google
By MatthiasF on 10/17/2009 11:29:05 PM , Rating: 1
The ISPs have "financial problems" because they have an actual physical task to accomplish. Having several thousand servers sitting in racks is far easier and cheaper to build and maintain than millions of branches on an end-run network. It's not an issue of ISPs not being able to sell the product, you've bought it already to be using the Internet. So, don't give me a "they're in trouble because their not doing their job right", you're on the damn Internet using all these free services so they seem to be doing a damn good job. Their problem is they let things get out of control, allowing traffic patterns to go in directions that are unmaintainable. Traffic patterns altered by sites and applications created by the companies leading the charge against the ISPs.

quote:
It is the way of the future. Or would you like to go to the old days before the times of the electronic calculator ?


So, if the future is allowing a monopoly to harvest vast amounts of data from the general population (not just browsing habits, mind you), create laws that benefit itself more than consumers, all while avoiding any criticism or oversight than it's a future in peril. And don't blame the electronic calculator for the new 1984 scenario playing out. Blame user's ignorance and short-sighted appetite for "free" content.

quote:
What you describe is nonsense. With out a efficient search machine, people would take longer to search and consuming more bandwidth. Google actually lowers bandwidth requirements.


If Google was only a search engine today, I'd agree to a degree but even an efficient search means more web browsing. But web browsing isn't the bandwidth hog. They've repeatedly swooped in to save bandwidth hogs like Youtube and Flickr. They then swooped in to save Grand Central, giving it's voice service an advantage against against cell phones and land lines that have government regulations to uphold.

Each new product they come out with is aimed to push their influence out of their core business. So much so that they're making Microsoft look tame by comparison.


RE: ATT vs Google
By William Gaatjes on 10/18/2009 4:35:17 AM , Rating: 4
quote:
So, don't give me a "they're in trouble because their not doing their job right", you're on the damn Internet using all these free services so they seem to be doing a damn good job.


I do not know where you get your internet from but i have to pay a monthly fee to be able to use the adsl connection(physical) my provider let's me use. My provider and i have a contract where it is written that i can use the material the ISP provides in exchange for a monthly fee. I think you got "fee" and "free" mixed up.

quote:
So, if the future is allowing a monopoly to harvest vast amounts of data from the general population (not just browsing habits, mind you), create laws that benefit itself more than consumers, all while avoiding any criticism or oversight than it's a future in peril. And don't blame the electronic calculator for the new 1984 scenario playing out. Blame user's ignorance and short-sighted appetite for "free" content.


Nothing is for free. Not even the rising of the sun.
Nothing comes for free not even philanthropy. But when the good out weights the lesser good(notice i do not use the bad) by far. It is all perspective. Are you sure you are not related to Steve Ballmer ?

quote:
If Google was only a search engine today, I'd agree to a degree but even an efficient search means more web browsing. But web browsing isn't the bandwidth hog. They've repeatedly swooped in to save bandwidth hogs like Youtube and Flickr. They then swooped in to save Grand Central, giving it's voice service an advantage against against cell phones and land lines that have government regulations to uphold. Each new product they come out with is aimed to push their influence out of their core business. So much so that they're making Microsoft look tame by comparison.


Innovation is something you do not like do you ?
Besides, it is the chicken or the egg problem. There is more bandwidth, let's use that. It is the same as the pc. More calculation power then the current software needs. But the next iteration of software will use all that untapped calculation power.

In comparison :
Microsoft uses the increased amount of calculation power on the pc for DRM schemes. I do not find that innovative. That is protecting your lobbying friends. For example, sure they "invented " that "minority report" table. But is a crime for your lower back. When you have issues with your physical health, that table is useless.

quote:
They then swooped in to save Grand Central, giving it's voice service an advantage against against cell phones and land lines that have government regulations to uphold.


That is the problem with politics today. They do more to protect drm schemes and people who overcharge already. Instead of doing the actual job. Setting up honest and reasonable regulations to protect the customer from abuse.
But maybe they do. Because if the general population(read customers) use voice over ip more then regular cell phones and land lines. Then that is what they want to use. In time when voice over ip really get's too big those regulations will come.

p.s. I am not against protection of intellectual property, but i am against somebody forcing it upon you and then using the law to forcing you to pay over and over again.
And when i buy a dvd, i do not want to see a short infomovie that accuses me upfront of being a criminal. As i do not understand why most music cd's are more expensive then movie dvd's. Those movies did cost a hell of a lot more to make then that music...


RE: ATT vs Google
By lyeoh on 10/18/2009 11:13:02 AM , Rating: 2
Quote: "Every ISP people complain about has tons of debt from building the network we all take for granted"

1) The last I checked my ISPs was charging me for internet service. Maybe you troll for ATT and get your service for free, but most people aren't as lucky as you.

2) The US ISPs/Telcos got USD200 billion worth in rebates, tax savings, laws etc to build stuff that they have NOT delivered and are hardly even close to delivering:
See: http://www.newnetworks.com/ShortSCANDALSummary.htm
http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/2007/pulpit_200...


RE: ATT vs Google
By KashGarinn on 10/19/2009 5:41:46 AM , Rating: 2
I wouldn't use the phrase "pot calling the kettle black"

- I'd use the phrase "George bush calling britney spears a terrorist" - Everyone can see britney spears isn't a terrorist, same as everyone can see google has none of the faults AT&T is listing.

- Everytime someone complains to FCC, FCC should really investigate both companies, starting with the one doing the complaining.

- Far too often I've seen people or companies shout and complain about "faults" with others, where there a) isn't a fault, and b) the complaining person/company is the one who is at fault, and often specifies its own problems.


Not a double standard
By nafhan on 10/16/2009 10:45:13 AM , Rating: 2
The real problem is that ATT is overtaxing their network by providing iPhone users with unlimited internet usage, and they're trying to pass the blame onto Google. The right way to fix the problem would be to put data usage caps on their plans and stop attempting to subsidize the data portion of the plan by overcharging on the voice portion of it.




RE: Not a double standard
By Jalek on 10/16/2009 8:58:37 PM , Rating: 2
I haven't had any trouble with AT&T's service. Most everything requires a wireless connection so their 3G marketing's just noise and meaningless hype since there's no use for it.

Streaming Pandora I suppose, but really.. In 3 years, my iPhone shows that it's received 132mb of data. If they're "overtaxed" with that, they need to sell out again and go away.


RE: Not a double standard
By tjr508 on 10/17/2009 10:53:36 AM , Rating: 3
I use nearly 1000MB per month even without 3G. Thank you for subsidizing my plan.


To the headline...
By StevoLincolnite on 10/16/2009 10:25:39 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
AT&T: Google Manipulates Media, is an Abusive, Power Hungry Monopoly


All I have to say is: Screw you AT&T! - At least Google doesn't try to take it's customers for every single cent they are worth!




RE: To the headline...
By FITCamaro on 10/16/2009 12:01:29 PM , Rating: 2
Yet. Mwuhhahahahaahahahaha!!!! ;)


RE: To the headline...
By Lifted on 10/16/2009 7:10:46 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
At least Google doesn't try to take it's customers for every single cent they are worth!


It's clear you've never used Google AdWords. Google is KING at digging deeper and deeper into it's customers wallets.


How about the origonal Chrome Terms of Service?
By Cerin218 on 10/16/2009 1:33:17 PM , Rating: 3
Say what you want about Google, I stopped trusting them when they released Chrome with a rule in the Terms of Service that stated they owned all content that was created using Chrome. They have since had to remove it for obvious reasons.

It does worry me that those of you here would not question the motives of a company that innovates for control of communications and technologies solely for the benefit of the user? No one gives anything without expecting something in return, that is simple human nature.




By William Gaatjes on 10/17/2009 4:46:18 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
It does worry me that those of you here would not question the motives of a company that innovates for control of communications and technologies solely for the benefit of the user? No one gives anything without expecting something in return, that is simple human nature.


It is all a matter of perspective.
Besides, it is not human nature. It is nature. Symbiosis.


Free Enterprise
By Cookoy on 10/16/2009 9:31:40 AM , Rating: 3
Monopoly: The dream of every entrepreneur. The nightmare of every consumer. When you get too good at your business, somehow everybody feels threatened. Suddenly the budding, shining star of the free enterprise economy morphs into the evil one. I'm glad i'm not a judge or a legislator or head of some consumer advocate organization. But i'm free to choose what browsers i use, what things i buy. In the eternal words of that Braveheart guy, "Freedom!"




Well.. that may be but....
By Orpheus333 on 10/16/2009 11:29:15 AM , Rating: 2
I for one, welcome our new google overlords.




RE: Well.. that may be but....
By straycat74 on 10/16/2009 11:46:51 AM , Rating: 1
late.


Google blows
By p05esto on 10/16/2009 3:57:04 PM , Rating: 1
I hate Google almost as mush as I hate Twitter and Apple...close. They could all go away and we'd be much better off.




RE: Google blows
By hiscross on 10/17/2009 2:20:28 PM , Rating: 2
Do you like your Mommy & Daddy, or are they on your hate list?


Wrong Country
By Mitch101 on 10/16/2009 1:36:21 PM , Rating: 2
AT&T should have done this in the UK. But then the EU commission can probably smell lawsuit gold from here.




By jgarrett911 on 10/16/2009 2:52:38 PM , Rating: 2
When I seach google starting from IE8's search bar and I continue the search from the returned google web page, AVG blocks the returing web page and displaying the message:"Danger: AVG Search-Shield has detected active threats on this page and has blocked access for your protection." It happens every time I perform a google search starting with IE8's search bar. It doesn't occur if I type google.com in the address bar first nor does it occur using any other search engine including scroogle.




By mryaww on 10/16/2009 7:42:26 PM , Rating: 2
AT&T needs to stop acting like a little BIA*CH, get back to more R&D and thank Google for paving our ever expanding digital infrastructure. Usually the smartest kid in class always gets alienated because of his intelligence by the all to common popular jock. If your not going to help shape and unlock the vast technological advances that are possible on the web then get off the information super highway at the next rest stop. Tech moves at "Light" speed and if Google is guilty of anything it's the fact that they're employing all the brilliant minds that they can find. In my opinion AT&T saved their existence by having the iPhone exclusively otherwise NOONE would be on their crappy service, with all these Android phones coming available I'm sure someone at the top of the food chain at AT&T sees their rein slowing diminishing. Voice, Docs, Gmail, Adsense, Wave, Picasa, Blogger and the list goes on, are just a few of the FREE services that I use on a daily basis provided by Google which help make my online life that much more productive.

quote:
All I can say to AT&T is to shave their legs if they're going to wear a skirt....Yeehaww




By William Gaatjes on 10/17/2009 4:11:55 PM , Rating: 2
I think google is an improvement to life. Searching for information has never been more easy. However, when i search for example parts, i notice that when searching from work i get different results then when i am searching from home. It does makes sense. When searching from a company IP, it is a lot more likely that you are trying to find a reseller of parts and specific information comes second. This i myself can totally understand. Although i know what google has done to improve the internet i dod not know what ATT has done. I am sure ATT helped a lot in making standards. I really do not know, for i am not an ATT customer. However, as google will continue to grow and become more diverse it is inevitable that people will come to work for google who have less moral then the average human being. Sooner or later google too will get bad press. Every company with a lot of influence has dirty secrets. But it is all the accomplishments together that are more important then a slip up.




Compare an Apple to an Apple
By JustMy2sense on 10/16/2009 11:26:09 AM , Rating: 1
The day At&t provide their services free of charge to all their customers, they may then enjoy the privilege of controlling cost by blocking calls to area's with exorbitant connect fee's.




AT&T's double standard
By friedrice on 10/16/2009 1:36:36 PM , Rating: 1
Google is one of the few major companies who practice an open source and mostly free model. I think AT&T is pissed that Google has set its sights on the telecommunications industry with their phone OS and applications for the iPhone, blackberry, and WinMo platforms.

AT&T likes to control everything while Google likes to give consumers freedom at no charge. AT&T loses customers and revenue while Google gains customers and more advertisement money.

Personally, I'm in favor of Google because it's about time someone challenge companies like Microsoft and AT&T. But I don't see how one can say Google is a Monopoly when they don't have an OS that comes default with this browser or google set as the home page. They don't make phones. Google is only has powerful as the number of people who type in www.google.com on their own free will.




AT&T is just desperate.
By deputc26 on 10/16/2009 2:26:36 PM , Rating: 1
Because Google has something they don't understand, that something is the ability to act on more than raw numbers and do more than just try to extract the most money possible from the consumer. Unlike most huge corporations, Google actually isn't evil.




By azamduccati on 10/22/2009 4:48:08 AM , Rating: 1
Labyrinth 1.0 Online Treasure HuNt : Registrations Started
Labyrinth is an online treasure hunt, a part of Dextrix 09- technical festival of Asia Pacific Institute of Information Technology, Panipat.
Sponsors: ZedCA Academy.

Cash Prizes to be won

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For queries mail to:
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By azamduccati on 10/22/2009 4:51:26 AM , Rating: 1
Labyrinth 1.0 Online Treasure HuNt : Registrations Started
Labyrinth is an online treasure hunt, a part of Dextrix 09- technical festival of Asia Pacific Institute of Information Technology, Panipat.
Sponsors: ZedCA Academy.

Cash Prizes to be won

Registrations have begun:
http://dextrix.org/labyrinth/register.php

For queries mail to:
labyrinth@dextrix.org




ATT captures users' data
By Ananke on 10/16/09, Rating: 0
Not a complete lie
By FITCamaro on 10/16/09, Rating: -1
RE: Not a complete lie
By mcnabney on 10/16/2009 9:25:21 AM , Rating: 2
Stop trying to contort reality to fit your political views. They play hardball in business just like every other large corporation, and politics are always involved. At least Google isn't using their political connections, like Wall Street has, in extracting billions of dollars from the government and being allowed to borrow directly from the Fed at 0%. Oh, but those are conservatives doing that. Gotcha.

Also, hearing a phone company whine like this is hysterical.


RE: Not a complete lie
By straycat74 on 10/16/2009 9:31:32 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Wall Street has, in extracting billions of dollars from the government and being allowed to borrow directly from the Fed at 0%. Oh, but those are conservatives doing that . Gotcha.


OCT 23, 2006 article (during the Bush years)
quote:
Fifty-one percent of the $46.3 million in campaign contributions made by securities firms so far during the 2006 midterm-congressional-election cycle went to Democrats


RE: Not a complete lie
By Fallen Kell on 10/16/2009 1:24:43 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
Fifty-one percent of the $46.3 million in campaign contributions made by securities firms so far during the 2006 midterm-congressional-election cycle went to Democrats


Actually I would say that is a direct sign of the securities firms hedging their bets. They saw the writting on the wall that Democrats were most likely to start comming back into power and thus contributed a extra 1% more of their money to them then they did to Republicans... The difference of 50% and 51% isn't really "speach" in terms of backing a particular party. It is plain and outright payoffs to get them to vote a particular way when Bills come up for votes. Might as well not even let them contribute money if they are going to give half to one party and half to the other. The money that corporations donate to campaigns was intended to allow the company to support a particular candidate or party, but simply supporting BOTH in a 2 party election system is just outright payouts.


RE: Not a complete lie
By FITCamaro on 10/16/09, Rating: -1
RE: Not a complete lie
By DoctorDavid on 10/16/2009 11:23:38 AM , Rating: 4
Interest free loans are being made from the fed to the private financial companies that took the world economy to the edge of disaster. That near collapse occured on Bush's watch and he tried to ignore it until he was out of office. When it was clear he couldn't run out the clock he sent his federal reserve chairman to congress to demand nearly a trillion dollars with no oversight. It's true the financial institutions didn't want to take the money, they all wanted the other companies to take the loans and put up with the oversight that corperate welfare demands, but they all were soaking in red ink and they all would have failed without vast quantities of cash. I think they should have been allowed to fail. But again it was the Bush administration that forced them to take the money.


RE: Not a complete lie
By straycat74 on 10/16/2009 11:32:41 AM , Rating: 1
Research fannie and freddie and see who was in charge. Hint: the democrats. And don't forget they accept no responsibility for their failed socialist policies.


RE: Not a complete lie
By teldar on 10/16/09, Rating: -1
RE: Not a complete lie
By MrBlastman on 10/16/09, Rating: -1
RE: Not a complete lie
By Lucafer on 10/16/2009 1:27:58 PM , Rating: 1
1. Clinton was to busy getting impeached for a blow job to spend political capitol on assassinating terrorists.

2. the deregulation drum was started by Ronnie senile sacred republican cow Reagan and mostly accomplished with a republican run congress

3. and my pecker is bigger than yours is not a foreign policy

4. Bush was such a predictable Moron you could always tell when he was up to something because he always put a minority in charge of it.

5.Bush & Cheney's use of Torture is probably the biggest most shameful thing this country has ever done and they and every one involved should be tried for war crimes.



RE: Not a complete lie
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 10/16/2009 1:47:35 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
5.Bush & Cheney's use of Torture is probably the biggest most shameful thing this country has ever done and they and every one involved should be tried for war crimes.

I fully support the use of torture on certain targets that prove to be high value and uncooperative. Besides, our form of torture is quite tame. Water boarding is very very tame compared to say hooking your nuts up to a car battery.


RE: Not a complete lie
By dark matter on 10/16/2009 2:54:09 PM , Rating: 4
Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty? Reminds me of what the used to do with witches in England. They used to strap them in a wooden cage, force their mouths open and plop them in a lake. If they drown they were innocent, if they lived they were a witch. Hey, lets torture this guy, if he doesn't know anything he is innocent...

Besides, the evidence from someone who is being tortured is completely unreliable.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/torture/et...

If I were to strap you up to a car battery, you would pretty tell me anything I wanted to hear. Not what is the actual truth.

You also lose any moral high ground that you claim to have and become no more barbaric than those attempting to inflict terrorism on you.

But then, dear Master Kenobi you are a complete ill educated douche bag. I think you have watched too much Hollywood. In fact, your very title gives it away.


RE: Not a complete lie
By MrBlastman on 10/16/09, Rating: 0
RE: Not a complete lie
By Alexstarfire on 10/16/2009 8:09:04 PM , Rating: 2
I think you should quantify that with PROVEN.

If their guilt is still in question then it's just not right, period.


RE: Not a complete lie
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 10/17/2009 2:48:02 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty?

You are trying to apply domestic law enforcement measures to a war zone. I'm sure the number of people captured with good intelligence information is small, but they still need to be run through the same interrogations to make sure they don't have any tidbits of information we might find useful later. You've been watching too many cop shows.

quote:
Hey, lets torture this guy, if he doesn't know anything he is innocent...

If he doesn't know anything he's still an enemy combatant and is likely going to do hard time. This innocent or guilty fallacy is just that, false. These guys were picked up in a war zone, intelligence either pointed to them, or they were caught in the act of doing something. Last time I checked we didn't patrol the streets and pickup every random individual we came across.

quote:
If I were to strap you up to a car battery, you would pretty tell me anything I wanted to hear. Not what is the actual truth.

Information is information. It's up to the interrogator to see if the information obtained pans out. Should we not even bother with these guys if the information they would be giving might not be accurate? In that case, why bother taking them prisoner? Intelligence gathering is very messy and is far from clear cut. Collecting information from people is every bit as inaccurate as collecting it elsewhere in the field.

quote:
You also lose any moral high ground that you claim to have and become no more barbaric than those attempting to inflict terrorism on you.

I don't claim any moral high ground. It's not like our guys aren't being tortured/beheaded/mutilated if they are captured. They can rest easy that we probably aren't going to kill them, but their capture will be no less of a picnic. The first rule of warfare is that there are no rules. It would be good for people to understand that war is a messy business.


RE: Not a complete lie
By Looey on 10/16/2009 7:24:05 PM , Rating: 1
3. and my pecker is bigger than yours is not a foreign policy

The Russians worked Obama over. First they got him to take down the missle shield in Eastern Europe promising Obama help with Iran. Now the Russians are saying wait a minute, we're not going to do that. Obama has no pecker and he is a big chicken s**t. What has he done with North Korea? He tried to talk them to death and they just shot off some missles. He kissed up to Iran and they also tested their long range missles. The world knew Iran had a second nuclear site. France, UK and Germany wanted to expose it in the UN when Obama gave his disarmament speech. Obama said no, it would spoil his speech. lets do it in Pittsburgh. Hey it's all about obama. His EU buddies got upset with him. What a joke Obama is.

5.Bush & Cheney's use of Torture is probably the biggest most shameful thing this country has ever done and they and every one involved should be tried for war crimes.

Have you ever seen the torture you are talking about by Bush & Cheney? Was it anything like the videos I have seen of Americans being be-headed by Islamist radicals? You should go fight Al-Qeada and the Talibans and you will want to either hide or kill them, much worse than water boarding. I have a video of some of the be-headings in Afghanistan before 9-11 that were carried out by the Taliban. Splashing some water on a few of these radicals means nothing to me after seeing the horrific torture carried out by them.

Obama should be expelled from his throne. He is not protecting America.

4. Bush was such a predictable Moron you could always tell when he was up to something because he always put a minority in charge of it.

Obama is such a predictable moron. You can tell when he is up to something because he always he goes on TV to campaign or calls out his union goons to intimidate people. Obama and Acorn are best buddies. Acorn is one of the most corrupt organizations in the world. Wonder where our tax money to Acorn went.

Obama is trying to make America a liberal state where everyone is dependent on the government. He is trying to make slaves out of all of us. He wants to redistribute the wealth in America. It is time to invest in gold and hide it.


RE: Not a complete lie
By omnicronx on 10/16/2009 1:49:51 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
Bush didn't cause 9/11: Clinton did. It was Clinton's "ignore it" philosophy of foreign policy that got us in this mess.
Haha.. ya Clinton just totally ignored everything, of course he was involved in more peace talks and foreign policy than either Bush ever was, but sure lets blame him. Playing the 9/11 blame game is nothing but childesh, it was no single Presidents fault, it was the result of 50+ years of terrible foreign policy.

Blaming Clinton for the economic crash is nothing but childish too. Pull your heads out of your ***'s, it was bad decisions compounded by both parties over the years.

Playing the blame game never helped anyone or anything, its not going to make your country better, quite the opposite actually, its the best stall tactic known to man..
quote:
Bush sent the message out that we weren't going to bend over and take it anymore. So the rest of the world hated it? I don't care. I DO care that nearly 3000 Americans lost their lives to something stupid that COULD have been prevented if action was taken years earlier
*shakes head* And how many innocent lives were lost in Iraq and Afghanistan since then? Instead of resolving the reason for conflict, you feel that sending a message is the better idea. Please tell me how that has worked out for all the rest of the worlds previous super powers and get back to me. (*hint* not very well)


RE: Not a complete lie
By MrBlastman on 10/17/2009 1:12:04 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
*shakes head* And how many innocent lives were lost in Iraq and Afghanistan since then? Instead of resolving the reason for conflict, you feel that sending a message is the better idea. Please tell me how that has worked out for all the rest of the worlds previous super powers and get back to me. (*hint* not very well)


Going in to Iraq in the first place was a zealous attempt by Bush to make up for his Father's failings. That is all it was. I was against going in there in the first place but... we did.

So, since we were there, we might as well try to make the place better. Ask some Iraqi's and they'll probably tell you we have. As some soldiers and they'll probably tell you they are doing some good. I have. I've asked a few actually. Have you?

I even go out of my way to thank them for serving our nation in public. They've earned it, moreso than most of us.

Afghanistan... That was sending a message. Unfortunately, Bush had his head lodged up his behind about Iraq and sent us in there before properly securing Afghanistan. As a result, the nation is still in conflict and the Taliban has grown stronger again. We tried to fight a war on two fronts and wonder why the enemy had time to regroup and come back at us with even more.

However, our Soldiers were doing as they were told. They took the orders and ran with it. I can't fault them for doing that and now that it has been done, we can't exactly just run away from the mess we have created without trying to patch it up and fix it. To do so would be wreckless and the least responsible thing we could do. We owe it to the people over there to try and make it better.

It is like that old saying when you were a child visiting the expensive crystal section of a department store: "Break it, you buy it."

Well, we broke it and now we've bought it. I think we're seeing some positive things come out of it finally but not without lives lost, both civilian and military.

The funny thing is--sitting around and trying to talk to Terrorists is a waste of time. The only thing they understand, the only thing they respect, is a lead core covered with a full metal copper jacket. That is all they deserve for senselessly murdering our people out of cold blood. I'm not talking just about 9/11, I'm talking about other incidents such as that Pan Am flight, the USS Cole or how about the Embassy bombing. All of those people died for what? For some terrorist to send us a message?

Going up to them and trying to apologize for whatever pissed them off and trying to make peaceful amends is a joke. There is no negotiation and they're better off looking down our barrels as our bullets exit at them. The Middle East has been at war for centuries and it will never change. We need to fix the mess "we" created as best we can and get out. They retaliate, we hit them back again.

I'm convinced that really the only ultimate solution is to build a wall around the whole place and arm it with sentry guns. Somehow though, I don't think that will happen.


RE: Not a complete lie
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 10/17/2009 2:50:43 AM , Rating: 2
Your correct on the terrorists. Negotiation and appeasement will get us nowhere fast. Somehow though many people still believe it will.


RE: Not a complete lie
By lco45 on 10/18/2009 9:02:25 PM , Rating: 2
Dude are you serious?

Bush was the laughing stock of the entire world for 8 years. At best a lovable buffoon, at worst a crony-loving oil man.

Luke


RE: Not a complete lie
By DoctorDavid on 10/16/2009 1:01:12 PM , Rating: 2
It appears the reality I live in is one where smarmy replies to my comments are common. Sarcasm and words in all caps. Sigh. Certainly the Dems can take some blame for the Fannie Freddie portion of this mess and other catastrophies also.
Well maybe I am living in my own reality,I remember that Bush had 6 years with a republican majority in congress. Putting regulations on financial institutions however isn't something the conservatives in Washington are usually interested in.
It was bush who sent his fed. chairman to demand nearly a trillion dollars with no oversight to be forced onto the top financial institutions.


RE: Not a complete lie
By MrBlastman on 10/16/2009 1:10:03 PM , Rating: 4
Let's play complete the sentence.

quote:
It was bush who sent his fed. chairman to demand nearly a trillion dollars with no oversight to be forced onto the top financial institutions...


... and if hadn't, these institutions would have been devoid of any foundation to prevent them all from toppling sending Americans into a panic whereupon chaos would ensue causing the next Great Depression.

;)

Be fair. Things could be a whole lot worse right now than they are. Read my other post btw, Bush _did_ try to change things.

I'll also be fair. Bush did waste 6 years where he had a majority and could have done a lot but didn't. Instead, he bloated our government and spent money freely. He also refused to listen to the people and went on his own agenda.

This is a fun game, huh?


RE: Not a complete lie
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 10/16/2009 1:49:34 PM , Rating: 2
Ironically, as much as people complained about Bush's spending, Obama seems to be on track to make him look like an amateur.


RE: Not a complete lie
By Hieyeck on 10/16/2009 2:00:29 PM , Rating: 2
Proof that Democrats really do do everything better.

[/ITS A JOKE. GOOD GOD DON'T YELL AT ME]


RE: Not a complete lie
By DoctorDavid on 10/16/2009 2:13:24 PM , Rating: 2
It is certainly more fun with reasonable responses such as yours. The smarm and sarcasm of some other replies to my comment are frustrating.
Your completion of my sentence was clarifying. I was originally commenting on , I believe it was fit camero, who said it was liberals that forced the money on the financial institutions.

I also wonder if the incredible amounts of money given to the failed banks would have been more useful if we had given it to healthy insitutions. I honestly don't know if that would have helped more but giving tax money to companies that failed in such a dramatic fashion just seems so wrong.

Bush, I believe, did try to do something about Fannie/Freddie and that could have helped some but they were a minor player compared to wall street and the insurance companies.I don't believe Bush tried to pass any regulations on them. I do thank God that he failed to put social security in the stock market.Disappearing 401k's are bad enough.


RE: Not a complete lie
By straycat74 on 10/16/2009 9:26:10 AM , Rating: 5
I trust Microsoft more than I do "The Google". I am using bing more and switching from gmail to my live account when it doesn't interfere with my communications.

Question - Who is under more scrutiny, Microsoft or Google? I see Google having free reign and can do no wrong. Microsoft can't do anything without someone crying foul.


RE: Not a complete lie
By kmmatney on 10/16/2009 12:28:01 PM , Rating: 2
I tend to agree. I started loosing it with google during the $30,000 day care debacle last year.


RE: Not a complete lie
By SiliconAddict on 10/16/09, Rating: -1
RE: Not a complete lie
By FITCamaro on 10/16/2009 10:16:39 AM , Rating: 4
Thanks for making me laugh.


RE: Not a complete lie
By R3T4rd on 10/16/2009 11:26:57 AM , Rating: 2
Ever notice...liberals always resort to name calling and bantering when they can't debate a point anymore?

Either that or PWNT sacrasm.


RE: Not a complete lie
By RjBass on 10/16/2009 12:48:20 PM , Rating: 2
Liberals resort to name calling and bantering while conservatives resort to torture, more government and poorly run wars.

Personally I think both sides suck. That's why i try to float as close to the middle as possible.


RE: Not a complete lie
By MrBlastman on 10/16/2009 12:57:54 PM , Rating: 2
It is a shame we'll never see a true non-democrat or non-republican elected. If we did, we would really see some "Change" for the better--not half-*ssed hot air that is being streamed out of Washington. The only Change that I've seen this year is the last name of the the guy in office. That's about it.

But, no true non-partisan candidate will ever be elected until true campaign finance reform happens. Well, that and these independent parties get themselves a real candidate. If they did, I would GLADLY vote for them. I'm sick of both parties as of late.


RE: Not a complete lie
By UNCjigga on 10/16/2009 12:47:08 PM , Rating: 2
Yeah, those damned wacko tree-hugging liberals. Always calling me a commie, pinko, socialist, Frenchie fag cheese-eating surrender monkey. I wish they'd stop!


RE: Not a complete lie
By artemicion on 10/16/2009 10:42:55 AM , Rating: 5
Accepting your argument as true, that Google's "owners" (I assume you either mean majority shareholders or the CEOs) are extremely liberal and are getting a pass from liberal politicians, you (shockingly) make no mention of the fact that conservatives aren't paying attention to Google either. Presumably, because conservatives are generally in favor of less regulation of the market and will leave large businesses to their own devices.

Which raises the question, either you agree with your conservative brethren and believe that there is no problem here and that Google shouldn't be regulated, and in turn are blaming liberals for something you don't believe to be a problem in the first place.

Or, you're secretly liberal, and are angry at liberals for failing to regulate a business that should be regulated.

I guess the third option would be that you're a southern conservative, nobody knows what your economic views are, largely because the rest of the country assumes you don't understand the economy, your only real economic policy is any policy that prevents gays from getting married, and you sit on your front porch with a shotgun while wearing a tin foil hat so that the government and Google satellites can't see you.

This is all in good fun, I'm not trying to flame you. I can see your main point is about businesses in politics, which is valid. Though IF there is a problem, it's both parties' fault for not doing anything.


RE: Not a complete lie
By FITCamaro on 10/16/2009 10:57:21 AM , Rating: 2
No I really don't have much of a problem with their rise to fame. As far as their business practices, as long as they remain within the bounds of the law, I don't think much should be done. I do have a bit of an issue with how much data they collect but they seem to largely keep that to themselves. As long as they continue to do so, and not sell it or use it to spy on people (pushing targeted ads isn't spying), I don't really have much to complain about.

I have more of a problem with those in charge of the company than the company itself. I just don't like double standards liberal politicians get into. Insurance companies, oil companies, and Microsoft are evil for making large profits but Google isn't?


RE: Not a complete lie
By omnicronx on 10/16/2009 1:31:55 PM , Rating: 2
FIT please explain to me how conservative politicians do not have the same double standards? I have yet to hear a peep about Google and their net neutrality stance (i.e government regulation) which goes against conservative ideals. Thats the OP's point, you can express your ideals when you would like, but in situations like this where both parties are potentially to blame, it is nothing but a hypocritical statement to call out a single party/ political stance.


RE: Not a complete lie
By pequin06 on 10/16/09, Rating: 0
RE: Not a complete lie
By FITCamaro on 10/16/2009 11:57:29 AM , Rating: 2
I had no problem with his comment.


RE: Not a complete lie
By mikeyD95125 on 10/16/2009 9:03:04 PM , Rating: 2
Satire recognition Fail.


RE: Not a complete lie
By ctodd on 10/16/2009 11:46:39 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
I guess the third option would be that you're a southern conservative, nobody knows what your economic views are, largely because the rest of the country assumes you don't understand the economy, your only real economic policy is any policy that prevents gays from getting married, and you sit on your front porch with a shotgun while wearing a tin foil hat so that the government and Google satellites can't see you.

I take great offense to your statement, Sir! I am proud to be both a Southerner and a Conservative! It pains me when people make derogatory statements like yours without truly knowing whom they are speaking of. It is very likely my education level and salary far exceeds yours. And yes, I do own a shotgun and many other weapons for that matter, but that has no bearing on ones acuity on political or economic matters.


RE: Not a complete lie
By Solandri on 10/16/2009 7:52:26 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Accepting your argument as true, that Google's "owners" (I assume you either mean majority shareholders or the CEOs) are extremely liberal and are getting a pass from liberal politicians, you (shockingly) make no mention of the fact that conservatives aren't paying attention to Google either. Presumably, because conservatives are generally in favor of less regulation of the market and will leave large businesses to their own devices.

Which raises the question, either you agree with your conservative brethren and believe that there is no problem here and that Google shouldn't be regulated, and in turn are blaming liberals for something you don't believe to be a problem in the first place.

Without getting into whether OP is actually right (I don't think he is, but that's another argument), the OP's point was one of consistency and hypocrisy. Not one of stance on an issue. A conservative who promotes family values, then gets caught having an affair can legitimately be called a hypocrite by liberals who sleep around with a different partner every night. Likewise, the OP's point was that if liberals want wish to scrutinize corporate activity and possible monopolistic behavior, then they need to do it evenly for all corporations. If they favor one company because their founders' political views match theirs, it would be hypocrisy.

quote:
I guess the third option would be that you're a southern conservative, nobody knows what your economic views are, largely because the rest of the country assumes you don't understand the economy, your only real economic policy is any policy that prevents gays from getting married, and you sit on your front porch with a shotgun while wearing a tin foil hat so that the government and Google satellites can't see you.

I tend to be right-leaning on economic issues, left-leaning on social issues. But things like what you just wrote are why I'll never be able to register as a Democrat. For a group which purports to rally against stereotypes, they sure promote a lot of them.


RE: Not a complete lie
By Lord 666 on 10/16/2009 11:41:22 AM , Rating: 2
Where was your gun when one was pointed at you? Or is this the reason you got yours?


RE: Not a complete lie
By FITCamaro on 10/16/2009 11:59:47 AM , Rating: 2
Didn't own one at that point. But were it to happen today, my gun would not come into play because they had every right to be there. They had a warrant. Even if they didn't, how would pulling a gun on the police help me?


RE: Not a complete lie
By MrBlastman on 10/16/2009 12:34:32 PM , Rating: 2
I'm curious, why were the police there?


RE: Not a complete lie
By bldckstark on 10/16/2009 1:07:58 PM , Rating: 2
Meth lab I suppose.


RE: Not a complete lie
By Lord 666 on 10/16/2009 12:38:26 PM , Rating: 2
Understood, much clearer now. Been on the opposite end of a firearm twice years ago; once was by police and the other was not...both situations resolved by talking my way out of it. That being said, in the process of getting my FID.

Guess it would have earned you free housing and unlimited amount of time in the gym.


RE: Not a complete lie
By HrilL on 10/16/2009 12:58:55 PM , Rating: 3
I read the whole letter from AT&T and while I'm not their happiest customer I have to agree with them. Google is a gate keeper just as much as an ISP could be. If not even more so. The new rules need to cover internet service providers as well. We as the consumer need to be protected from such companies that hold massive amounts of information about us.

AT&T is right that Google is in fact covered by the FCC's current jurisdiction in regards to Google Voice and thus is breaking the law by blocking calls. Offering a free service doesn't exempt you from following the law.

Google clearly wants to be in control of the information in the world and they are clearly on their way to doing this. By controlling all this information they will be able to manipulate politics to favor its own agenda while making it seem as if they haven't done anything. Controlling information is the key to controlling the population that relies on this information in order to make their decisions.
Nothing good will come from this if Google is allowed to operate without any type of regulation to protect the consumer and free speech which they clearly have the power to stifle.


RE: Not a complete lie
By JosefTor on 10/16/2009 1:20:11 PM , Rating: 2
How can you think Google is evil? I pay nothing (at least directly) to Google... yet... I use its products everyday and they enrich my life more than any other company.

On the employee side, they are also generally the best. Other than a few incidents, the company pays high pay and benefits. For most people, it is their dream to work for Google.

And I agree, it is very funny that ATT of all companies says this. A company with ridiculous prices, horrible service, low pay, and straight out lies to the consumer (free $150 cash to switch to ATT... apparently=nothing.)


Of course Google is evil
By pequin06 on 10/16/09, Rating: -1
RE: Of course Google is evil
By ipay on 10/16/2009 9:06:43 AM , Rating: 2
There's a time and a place for saying things like that, and it's not here. Not now. This is a tech website.

I don't think Google's monopoly is evil. I can't recall the last time I was forced to use it, or left with no other choice. I choose to use Google because it's fast and generally gives good results. My two cents...


RE: Of course Google is evil
By straycat74 on 10/16/09, Rating: 0
RE: Of course Google is evil
By MrBlastman on 10/16/2009 12:36:54 PM , Rating: 4
Microsoft is a saint compared to Apple and Google as of late. Windows 7 is darned nice and XP has served me well over the last eight years.


RE: Of course Google is evil
By mmntech on 10/16/2009 9:24:17 AM , Rating: 3
All I can say is it's the pot calling the kettle black.


RE: Of course Google is evil
By Blessedman on 10/16/2009 9:33:49 AM , Rating: 2
thank you! This is exactly what I was thinking when I read this article. Be like Apple calling Microsoft evil...


RE: Of course Google is evil
By luseferous on 10/16/2009 12:23:52 PM , Rating: 1
Sums up my reaction to the story perfectly.


RE: Of course Google is evil
By pequin06 on 10/16/2009 10:02:46 AM , Rating: 3
quote:
I don't think Google's monopoly is evil


Googles new bot is called Al Gore

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2009/10...


RE: Of course Google is evil
By straycat74 on 10/16/2009 9:08:52 AM , Rating: 3
It's not evil if it's done for your own good.

I welcome our new Google overlords.

ALL HAIL GOOGLE!!!!!


RE: Of course Google is evil
By TSS on 10/16/2009 11:19:59 AM , Rating: 5
Well to be fair i'd rather welcome Google overlords then AT&T overlords.


RE: Of course Google is evil
By MrBlastman on 10/16/2009 12:39:01 PM , Rating: 2
So you'd rather place your life and liberties in the hands of others because they know best for you?


RE: Of course Google is evil
By jimbojimbo on 10/16/2009 2:44:18 PM , Rating: 2
He didn't say he wanted either of them as his overlords. Just given the choice Google over AT&T. I second it.


RE: Of course Google is evil
By reader1 on 10/16/09, Rating: -1
RE: Of course Google is evil
By Blessedman on 10/16/2009 9:40:20 AM , Rating: 3
your sarcasm is either too deep or muddled, at least I am hoping it sarcasm, lol


RE: Of course Google is evil
By imaheadcase on 10/16/2009 9:41:25 AM , Rating: 2
The open, free internet is a cesspoll of crime and disorganized mess?

Welcome to america, replace internet with freemarket and you got the same thing. That explains..
1. government
2. market
3. patent system
4. monopolies

etc.


RE: Of course Google is evil
By superPC on 10/16/09, Rating: 0
RE: Of course Google is evil
By R3T4rd on 10/16/2009 11:24:19 AM , Rating: 2
reader1, you make Pirks sound and look like Ghandi.

You sir, have issues. You remind me of the "Bearded Brother-in-law" (can't remember his name) in "The Hangover". Though he's actually funny...you are not.


RE: Of course Google is evil
By FITCamaro on 10/16/2009 12:00:41 PM , Rating: 2
And he's good at poker.

Awesome movie though.


RE: Of course Google is evil
By MrBlastman on 10/16/2009 12:44:10 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
The open, free internet is a cesspool of crime and a disorganized mess.


You obviously did not BBS much back in the day on 1200-2400 bps modems. This little "dark corner" you allude to has existed for a long time. The only problem is nowadays the common public has really brought it out into the open in a "everyone is doing it" kind of way.

Oh, and I agree with your comment on Google being wrong. They are a great potential threat to free thought and ideas, it is only a matter of time. They store everything for a reason. What makes people think they are just doing it for good?

All information can be used for good, kind purposes just as easily as it can be used to do wrong.


RE: Of course Google is evil
By Jalek on 10/16/2009 9:05:03 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
The open, free internet is a cesspool of crime and a disorganized mess.


Nobody's making you use it. Perhaps you'd prefer a nicely organized encyclopedia.

Of course you could easily say the same of American society.
There are plenty of more structured places to live, where everything is controlled, including the internet.


Of course they are evil
By SiliconAddict on 10/16/09, Rating: -1
Google is the next AOL.
By reader1 on 10/16/09, Rating: -1
RE: Google is the next AOL.
By troysavary on 10/16/2009 9:19:57 AM , Rating: 3
Yes, we will all love paying more to get less. Sheesh, where do you get these ideas. The anarchy and chaos is exactly what makes the internet popular. No longer do a few, usually left leaning, sources control all our access to information.

That, my friend, is the true reason we see this call to censor the internet. It has nothing to do with protecting the children. It is that the mainstream media hates the fact that they are no longer the gatekeepers of information.


RE: Google is the next AOL.
By reader1 on 10/16/09, Rating: -1
RE: Google is the next AOL.
By theapparition on 10/16/2009 9:29:32 AM , Rating: 2
What you've just described is AOL. Good work!

Now, I'm going to go do penance for feeding the reader1 troll.


RE: Google is the next AOL.
By Ananke on 10/16/2009 3:26:01 PM , Rating: 2
When somebody talks "who is watching you" shall ask first himself this question:

Why ATT built huge datacenters and mirrors all user traffic upon key words? Not just the web behaviour, but ALL the information through their wires...Food for some thoughts guys. Recently the media has been very quiet about that, the datacenters still exist though, and are in use.

Also:

How anybody can fight a service provided free?

ATT is going the way of the Do-do :), very soon everybody will do IP phone calls, and at the very moment when last mile is not monopoly (becaiuse now is effectively monopoly) ATT may be just a small ISP player...They don't deserve to exist, in my opinion.


RE: Google is the next AOL.
By Gzus666 on 10/16/2009 8:33:38 PM , Rating: 2
While I share your disdain for AT&T, having worked for them and with them they completely suck and are mindless zombies, I don't foresee VoIP taking over completely anytime soon. Trying to do faxing with T.38 is a nightmare, keeping call quality there is a pain in the butt. Packets drop, that is just life and with UDP, you aren't getting them back. This becomes an issue and they really need a serious hardware and physical layer upgrade worldwide before this really takes off.


"There's no chance that the iPhone is going to get any significant market share. No chance." -- Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer














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