Print 35 comment(s) - last by Ryanman.. on Jan 16 at 7:58 PM

ATI can have its cake and eat it too

It has only been four months since the first DirectX 11 video cards hit the market using GPUs from ATI, the graphics division of AMD. The Radeon HD 5800 series using the Cypress core not only featured exceptional performance, but support for the new standard. Video cards using the new chip sold out almost immediately, and ATI's 5800 sales have been constrained by TSMC's production problems until early December. Supply has risen since then and 5800 series Radeons are now readily available.

The company released the performance mainstream Radeon HD 5700 series in October using a new 40nm chip codenamed Juniper. The smaller chip meant that yields were higher and prices were lower, and many gamers upgrading during the holiday shopping season picked up one of those cards.

On the other hand, the Radeon HD 5970 has been sold out since launch. The most powerful video card in the world has been highly sought after since it was launched in November. ATI has told DailyTech that there should be more 5970s hitting the market soon now that there are more Cypress chips available.

The company also launched its DirectX 11 Mobility Radeon lineup yesterday, with a full range of discrete GPU options ranging from the enthusiast to the mainstream. Those GPUs will be mostly paired up with new 32nm Intel Arrandale CPUs.

DailyTech was at an AMD event last night where the company disclosed that it had sold over 2 million DirectX 11 GPUs, forming a pretty large product base for DX11 game developers that is still steadily growing. A specially commissioned Radeon cake was the highlight of the night.

The ATI Radeon HD 5870 also won the CES 2010 Best of Innovations award in the Computer Hardware category.

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Yea... but
By FlyTexas on 1/9/2010 12:59:57 AM , Rating: 2
They are nice cards, however...

For those looking for a mainstream card, I agree the 5700 series makes sense...

For those who have a 8800GT or 9800GT, then 5850 might make sense as an upgrade, however the card is $50 overpriced, of course only because nVidia has nothing else out yet.

It will be a shame if nVidia doesn't come out with something soon, or we'll see these same cards priced at the same place in a year...

RE: Yea... but
By troysavary on 1/9/2010 6:18:27 AM , Rating: 5
How are they overpriced? if they are being sold as fast as they are being made, then the price seems fine to me. You don't understand that the value of something is what people are willing to pay for it, not some arbitrary number made up by someone not willing to pay said price. Seeing the state of AMD's financials the last couple of years, the longer they can keep the price up, the better.

RE: Yea... but
By SlyNine on 1/9/2010 5:53:36 PM , Rating: 4
I wish I could rate you up.

RE: Yea... but
By hellokeith on 1/10/2010 4:16:29 AM , Rating: 2
The 5850 is overpriced according to AMD/ATI. $250 is MSRP. While they may be getting some additional profit, it's the distributors and e-tailers who are making the real extra dough. It's a pretty simple effect-of-business, if something costs me an extra $5, I'm gonna tack on $8.50. By the time the product makes it to the end user, everyone in the supply chain has added $50 total to the final price.

RE: Yea... but
By jonmcc33 on 1/11/2010 4:18:08 PM , Rating: 2
No. What is overpriced is RAM prices these days. 4GB (2x2GB) DDR2-800 is more than double the price it was before the price hike. A 100% price increase is overpriced.

RE: Yea... but
By Zoridon on 1/11/2010 2:28:33 PM , Rating: 2
Good point; I think your alluding to the anti capitalist nature of many who want something for nothing while the goose that lays the golden egg goes out of business. However another post states AMD is not making the profit from the overcharged cards, but retailers are. In the end it will be the retailers who have to cut down the prices to match a future Nvidia GPU leaving AMD to continue to make the exact same profit from their MSRP. It would be bad press for AMD to raise the MSRP after a product launch and give anti AMD peeps out there ammo to point fingers and say "See they are screwing us" which is actually what the retailers are doing now. AMD/ATI just underestimated the success of this GPU launch is all.

RE: Yea... but
By jonmcc33 on 1/11/2010 4:12:45 PM , Rating: 2

I purchased a MSI Radeon HD 5850 when it was $259. I'd get it all over again even if it had been $309. It $259 it was a steal. At $309 it's normal price IMO.

RE: Yea... but
By Sahrin on 1/12/2010 11:40:48 AM , Rating: 3
I think you are confusing price and value - the two concepts are not interchangeable. It is possible for something to be invaluable, but worthless - and it is likewise possible for something to be hugely expensive but to have no value. Price is objective; value is subjective.

You can't tell someone that "your view of (subjective thing) is wrong." It's like telling someone that hating the color green is wrong. It's valid; if not intelligent.

That said; while price is objective to consumers, it is subject to market forces. Artificial scarcity (caused by, let's say, manufacturing difficults with TSMC's 40nano process) can artificially affect price - making it possible for something to be priced high, even though all of them are selling.

Furthermore, with the EOL of the 4800 series (I believe there are no more than a few 4870/4890's available on the market) means that buyers in that performance segment have no choice but to pay more. You can obstinately demand that something is worth what person X is willing to pay for it - and from the perspective of the market you are right. But it's not a very informed view of the market or economics.

RE: Yea... but
By Ananke on 1/12/2010 4:33:48 PM , Rating: 2
Wow, this is the point.

My subjective feel is that this card is definitely worth 250-265, however its value is not worth 309. That is the point.

Also, how you guys tell "flying off the shelves" for a product, that was stocked qty 5 units per retailer for example, and they managed to sell all 5 of them within a week. Pay attention - not quantity 1 million per week. Using same logic, Ferraris are hot product and fly off the shelves, because they are always sold with mark up?

RE: Yea... but
By Ryanman on 1/16/2010 7:58:50 PM , Rating: 2
That's a pretty stupid point. First of all, every retailer sold out of them in five or ten minutes after they got any stock at all until midway through December. Second of all, selling 2 million this quickly is a feat in and of itself, not factoring in supply problems.

Grats !
By Reclaimer77 on 1/9/2010 2:05:11 AM , Rating: 1
Now make the damn thing shorter please ! I'm not buying a new case just to squeeze in a moderate upgrade.

RE: Grats !
By Fox5 on 1/9/2010 4:33:03 AM , Rating: 3
Wow, 2 million high end cards? Makes me think that each gpu generation has a sales base at least as high as a console, now why can't PC games can't sell well?

RE: Grats !
By meepstone on 1/9/2010 7:32:09 AM , Rating: 2

RE: Grats !
By invidious on 1/11/2010 3:01:49 PM , Rating: 2
false. PC gaming is in a lul because of developers not consumers. devs see higher profit margins and lower standards over in the concole arena so they all flock there. PC gamers would never pay $70 for a game that will never be patched and can not be modified for after market use.

does piracy detract from PC game sales? sure. but not nearly as much as not putting out games does. most people who pirate are people who wouldn't have bought it anyway.

do you really think people with 10,000 pirated songs on their computer would have paid $10,000 to download all of those songs in a world where piracy didn't exist?

RE: Grats !
By SlyNine on 1/9/2010 6:00:28 PM , Rating: 3
That's exactly what I was thinking, Is this the sign of a turnaround.

I hope so, and if MS and Sony want to make a new console I hope ATI and NVidia and Intel tell them to make their own videocards.

To many console gamers talk crap about PC gaming, and they don't even realize that most innovation they enjoy was done first on PC. In my eyes they take innovation and dumb it down for the masses, that's great but in the process they think they can just kill PC gaming because they don't want to feel "inferior". Problem is ATI and NVidia's main business strategy is computer graphics acceleration.

So again I hope AMD, Nvidia, and Intel give console makers the big middle finger.

RE: Grats !
By aegisofrime on 1/11/2010 11:34:03 AM , Rating: 2
You are basically asking them to forgo the millions of dollars from console makers.

I hate consoles as much as any hardcore PC gamer, but what you want is just unrealistic.

RE: Grats !
By SlyNine on 1/14/2010 5:29:52 AM , Rating: 2
What I am saying is the death of PC gaming could be the death of ATI/NVidia. Or at least the death of their core business.

They need to consider at least not offering them top of the line parts. I know when the 360 came out the 1900XT wasn't top of the line, but it was close enough, if they would only offer them the equivalent of a 1600XT things would have been much better for their core business, I think. But you know I could be wrong.

RE: Grats !
By Sahrin on 1/12/2010 11:46:48 AM , Rating: 2
Well, 2 things.

1) They do (check Valve's simultaneous players stats on Steam) - but there isn't the marketing machinery of a Microsoft, Nintendo or Sony to hawk the platform; Microsoft's support of PC games comes in the form of developer tools (DirectX), not marketing. So even when there are huge sellers on the PC, there's no one to crow about it. Similarly, there is no 'licensing authority' for PC - meaning that it's not even particularly easy to assemble reliable information on sales.
2) Tie-in ratio: Sales of a graphics cards do not necessitate sales of games (as opposed to consoles - which exist to play games). Many PC manufacturers will bundle more powerful graphics cards with more expensive PC's (particularly in hte $1,200+ segment) as a way of boosting margins (look at my checkboxes!).
3) I think you're dramtically overestimating sales success; a GPU generation lasts 12-18 months; AMD launched the 5800's in October, and have faced absolutely no competition in an upgrade starved market (the prior 12 months was abysmal for sales) into the holiday season (where more than half of all sales in a whole year can occur). AMD will be fortunate to sell 10 million discrete 5000 series GPU's.

The cake...
By Yawgm0th on 1/8/2010 4:38:07 PM , Rating: 5 a lie.

RE: The cake...
By Sungpooz on 1/8/2010 6:49:09 PM , Rating: 2
I call the PCI-E piece!

RE: The cake...
By TheEinstein on 1/8/2010 8:13:55 PM , Rating: 2
PCI-E is in your beard man...

RE: The cake...
By MCNEIL1986 on 1/8/10, Rating: -1
RE: The cake...
By SlyNine on 1/9/2010 5:52:32 PM , Rating: 2
Ban the spam,

Hey, it almost rhymes.

RE: The cake...
By ekv on 1/10/2010 2:48:12 AM , Rating: 4
"Ban the spam"

I couldn't agree more.

I used to frequent The Inquirer (British tech site) but then they've got some guy who is positively mental. [Drashek?] People like that lower the signal/noise ratio. It gets to the point where you don't want to wade through the crap to get to the good stuff.

DT take notice. This is still an ok site. I realize it isn't the easiest problem to solve but even Wikipedia has an entry on "Forum spam". Start Page gives me a couple good links that may work for DT ...

DT, if any of this stuff costs dough to implement, let us know and perhaps we all can kick in a couple bucks.


P.S. love my 5770. Driving dual 2408's and 2001's. It's hard to use a computer with anything less 8)

By jlips6 on 1/11/2010 8:09:19 PM , Rating: 2
can we get some more pictures of the cake?

RE: moar
By riottime on 1/12/2010 7:51:42 AM , Rating: 2
i wonder what type of cake? chocolate? it looks yummy. is it based on the 5800? that means it's really long and more to eat.

i'm one of the 2 million who bought one. i got me a 5770 card to replace my dead 8800 gt card. i want a piece of that cake too. :)

RE: moar
By PAPutzback on 1/14/2010 12:37:02 PM , Rating: 2
I bought a 5770 from HIS ;-) I was suckered in for the free dirt 2 coupon. I still have the game but the card has been RMA'd. You know you got a dud when you go back to new egg and the item is deactivated a week after you bought it and can't even post a review. HIS's RMA dept has had the card since the 7th and it will take 2-4 weeks to ship a a new one WTH. Atleast with HDD manufacturers they cross ship.

RE: moar
By Jansen on 1/15/2010 8:59:32 PM , Rating: 2
It was Red Velvet....tastes like cherry.

Hold on.
By SavagePotato on 1/11/2010 1:24:41 PM , Rating: 2
The ports look incorrectly laid out on that card, where is the hdmi and display port?

Fire the cake maker.

RE: Hold on.
By Jansen on 1/11/2010 8:00:18 PM , Rating: 2
Those are two DVI ports and a mini-DisplyPort.

RE: Hold on.
By Sahrin on 1/12/2010 11:47:51 AM , Rating: 2
So much for hexeyefinity.

one missing piece of info from the article...
By Nyago123 on 1/10/2010 2:23:01 AM , Rating: 2
Who actually made the cake? Was it Duff Goldman?

By kake on 1/10/2010 3:07:00 AM , Rating: 3
And the obvious followup question:

Who's going to make the case cake to fit this and what kind of cooling is it going to need?

I see a potential market for enormous flour-egg-and sugar concoctions at future CES shows. This year Samsung had a two story stand, next year, a two _layer_ stand?

This will be the new standard by with presenters gauge themselves!

ATi had their cake....
By Amiga500 on 1/11/2010 3:26:03 AM , Rating: 2
ATi had their cake.... And ate it?

Unheard of! :-D

It's big and all...
By Wodinn on 1/11/2010 10:29:13 AM , Rating: 2
...but can it play Crysis?

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