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AMD sees loss of over $3 billion in fiscal 2008

AMD has been struggling for years now with profitability and competing with rival chipmakers. The world's second largest chipmaker has seen hard times and things still aren't looking up for the company.

AMD has posted its Q4 2008 and fiscal 2008 earnings reports, and things don’t look good. For Q4 2008 AMD reports revenue from continued operations was $1.162 billion. While that sounds like a lot of revenue, the number is down 35 percent from Q3 2008 and down 33 percent from Q4 2007.

The chipmaker reported a net loss of $1.424 billion for the quarter or $2.34 per share. The loss for continuing operations for the quarter was $1.414 billion. Q4 2008 revenue was down 28 percent sequentially with Q3 process technology license revenue of $191 million excluded.

AMD reports that for its fiscal 2008 year ending on December 27, 2008 it produced revenue of $5.808 billion and posted a massive net loss of $3.098 billion. The end of fiscal 2008 marks the second straight year where AMD posted a net loss in excess of $3 billion. The net loss in fiscal 2007 totaled $3.379 billion.

The chipmaker notes that the results for its continuing operations include a negative impact of $996 million resulting from the write-down of ATIs value, formation of The Foundry Company, restructuring charges and other items.

AMD President and CEO Dirk Meyer said in a statement, "Although industry visibility is poor, our priorities remain clear and achievable. We remain focused on further reducing our breakeven point through targeted restructuring actions while ensuring we execute our highly-competitive product and technology roadmaps. We made significant progress toward the creation of ‘The Foundry Company’ in the quarter, and anticipate closing the transaction in February. We expect our ongoing restructuring actions and asset smart strategy, combined with the strength of our innovative product offerings, will leave us well positioned for a global market recovery."

AMD's main rival, Intel, announced yesterday that it would close some of its fabrication plants and consolidate manufacturing to improve its financial outlook.



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So when will AMD get
By Sylar on 1/23/2009 11:39:47 AM , Rating: 5
their slice of the bailout pie? Just sayin.




RE: So when will AMD get
By bighairycamel on 1/23/2009 11:43:01 AM , Rating: 5
Here we go again... /eyeroll


RE: So when will AMD get
By FaceMaster on 1/23/09, Rating: -1
RE: So when will AMD get
By bighairycamel on 1/23/2009 12:13:30 PM , Rating: 5
You really want to start up the Free Market Economy vs. Government interaction debate again? /ponder


RE: So when will AMD get
By FaceMaster on 1/23/09, Rating: -1
RE: So when will AMD get
By bighairycamel on 1/23/2009 1:04:59 PM , Rating: 5
Who the hell said anything about them doing well??


RE: So when will AMD get
By quiksilvr on 1/23/09, Rating: -1
RE: So when will AMD get
By Cogman on 1/23/2009 2:28:11 PM , Rating: 2
While your first 3 are plausible, the last 2 aren't. Why would IBM want to attack Intel at this point? They already have the biggest company of all three. If they wanted to take on Intel, they would have done it a long time ago. AMDs death won't give them any reason to start making consumer level CPUs and more then Microsoft's death would make them want to develop an OS.


RE: So when will AMD get
By quiksilvr on 1/23/2009 5:25:11 PM , Rating: 2
Its suppose to be a joke.


RE: So when will AMD get
By Cypherdude1 on 1/29/2009 5:45:03 PM , Rating: 2
I really wish AMD could post at least a break-even income statement. With the amount of money they're losing, there's just no way they can stay in business. Intel needs a competitor in the market to keep them honest and not charge exorbitant prices.

I have not owned an Intel CPU for over 20 years ! Intel's CPU's, during the 90's, were just too expensive and I could get the same speed from their competitors Cyrix and AMD. In fact, the CPU on this machine I am using has an AMD T-Bird 1400 which is still doing fine since September 2001! I have no problems with it at all. It even works as a multimedia machine!

It's too bad AMD can't produce CPU's which have the same speed as Intel's i7 line. I am going to be sorry AMD goes. Once AMD goes under, who is going to keep Intel from overcharging us?


RE: So when will AMD get
By Chadder007 on 1/23/2009 2:38:13 PM , Rating: 2
VIA's Nano is impressive looking to be competing somewhere around the Atom/Celeron's. But I still have yet to see any systems that even use the darn processor.....WTF are they?


RE: So when will AMD get
By TomZ on 1/23/2009 3:11:30 PM , Rating: 2
Same place VIA always is - in small niche markets hoping for mainstream acceptance, which never happens. I would guess that Atom is outselling Nano by a factor of 100:1 or more.


RE: So when will AMD get
By Oregonian2 on 1/23/2009 7:32:28 PM , Rating: 3
Which is fine -- except some have suggested that if AMD folds that Intel will perhaps charge $100 for the Atom due to their monopoly and that buyers will continue to ignore the $15 Via processor that's roughly equivalent (which I don't think would happen).


RE: So when will AMD get
By icanhascpu on 1/23/2009 8:20:51 PM , Rating: 1
As much as I agree AMD is doing poorly in some of their business decisions, you, good sir, are a douche.

This isnt the wow forums. Grow up.


RE: So when will AMD get
By FaceMaster on 1/24/2009 5:39:18 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
you, good sir, are a douche.


Would you be able to explain why?


RE: So when will AMD get
By icanhascpu on 1/28/2009 6:30:11 PM , Rating: 2
It's pretty obvious to most of us.


RE: So when will AMD get
By Penti on 1/23/2009 5:52:48 PM , Rating: 2
AMD or The Foundry Company already has state help from Abu Dhabi emirate.

I'm sure AMD itself also can attract investors.


RE: So when will AMD get
By Samus on 1/23/2009 6:11:09 PM , Rating: 2
I'm thinking nVidia is eventually going to make an x86 processor to compete with Intel.


RE: So when will AMD get
By Oregonian2 on 1/23/2009 7:34:47 PM , Rating: 2
They have the problem that "The Foundary Company" may have (TBD) and that has to do with licenses to x86 related things (which I know AMD does, and I think VIA does).

Does nVidia have wide cross-licensing agreements with Intel?


RE: So when will AMD get
By FaceMaster on 1/23/09, Rating: -1
RE: So when will AMD get
By MrTeal on 1/23/2009 11:49:58 AM , Rating: 2
Maybe I just don't understand economics, but I can't figure out how a company with $5.8B in revenue can lose $3B. Ford might lose $3B here or there, but that's on almost $200B in revenue.

AMD isn't a startup anymore. If their loss is more than half their revenue, it's time to consider a new line of business.


RE: So when will AMD get
By NullSubroutine on 1/23/2009 12:17:45 PM , Rating: 2
If I recall, AMD has been actually been operating red their whole business. They keep dumping everything into expansion and heavily invest in assets.


RE: So when will AMD get
By Jansen (blog) on 1/23/2009 12:20:02 PM , Rating: 2
Research and Development, plus 45nm production equipment such as for immersion lithography.

Intel will have to go through similar costs for 32nm.


RE: So when will AMD get
By phazers on 1/23/2009 11:55:41 AM , Rating: 2
I don't think the new administration or Congress or the public will stand for bailing out small companies like AMD - look at the amount of grief GM, Ford & Chrysler got for their bailouts...

Hmm, 9 successive quarterly losses amounting to some $6.5B now, and no end in sight. I recall AMD stating in Q4 of 2007 that they would return to "break even" sometime in 2008, then later Q4 of 08. No such promises now. And their cash on hand has fallen to 1.1B, down from 1.9B.

Hopefully the spinoff of the fab will give some much-needed cash infusion to AMD and buy them some time to ride out this economy.


RE: So when will AMD get
By maveric7911 on 1/23/09, Rating: -1
RE: So when will AMD get
By FaceMaster on 1/23/09, Rating: -1
RE: So when will AMD get
By rudolphna on 1/23/2009 1:00:39 PM , Rating: 3
PhysX IS useless. And the phenom II overclocks just as well if not better than the Core 2 quad, and are as fast/faster than the same core 2 quad.


RE: So when will AMD get
By FaceMaster on 1/23/09, Rating: -1
RE: So when will AMD get
By FaceMaster on 1/23/09, Rating: -1
RE: So when will AMD get
By rudolphna on 1/23/2009 2:58:31 PM , Rating: 2
Correction. They are as fast as the 45nm C2Qs. The latest ones.


RE: So when will AMD get
By TomZ on 1/23/09, Rating: -1
RE: So when will AMD get
By Chaser on 1/23/2009 4:30:51 PM , Rating: 5
Well the Intel "fan boys" better hope for a competitive AMD or they will be paying more for their royalties.


RE: So when will AMD get
By Penti on 1/23/2009 6:02:18 PM , Rating: 2
Core i7 isn't mainstream yet either. They will be (Core i5) will be great though.


RE: So when will AMD get
By grenableu on 1/23/09, Rating: 0
RE: So when will AMD get
By FaceMaster on 1/24/09, Rating: -1
RE: So when will AMD get
By clovell on 1/23/2009 6:52:51 PM , Rating: 2
Let's set the record straight. The only comparisons that matter outside of fanboyland are done at a price-point.


RE: So when will AMD get
By TomZ on 1/23/09, Rating: -1
RE: So when will AMD get
By Oregonian2 on 1/23/2009 7:41:09 PM , Rating: 4
Performance per watt is of particular interest for laptops/netbooks.

I agree it means little for most PC buyers other than in a general way to be green (more like "everybody should seriously be green, but maybe not me -- because I want serious horsepower in MY pc without regard to power burned").

Companies like Google and others with warehouses containing a zillion CPUs or those who build massively parallel systems would care about performance per watt quite a bit as well.


RE: So when will AMD get
By theapparition on 1/23/2009 8:15:38 PM , Rating: 1
I completely disagree.

While performance per watt may be an important metric in a decision, by far the paramount critereon is overall performance.

From ultimate performance, you then start to compromise looking at other factors until you make a decision based on cost, power, battery life etc.

I mean, the highest performance per watt computer comes in the form of ARM processors........and yet you'd never consider and ARM based laptop (assuming they were x86 compatible).

TomZ is right on the money. First consider overall performance, then downgrade until it makes sense.


RE: So when will AMD get
By Oregonian2 on 1/23/2009 11:44:00 PM , Rating: 3
So, if you had the choice of two of the new netbooks to use, and you could use one who's battery dies in two hours and another that dies in six hours -- you would go with the two-hour one because it's performance was double the other one?

How much performance does one get out of a laptop/notebook/netbook that has a dead battery?


RE: So when will AMD get
By theapparition on 1/24/2009 2:04:28 PM , Rating: 2
Completely missed point?

I could just as easily turn around your argument and say do you buy a netbook that can't handle your programs but lasts hours, or one which can handle your applications but lasts much less.

How useful is a computer that can't handle your applications?

See the folly.

As I stated, performance per watt is an important metric, but hardly the be-all, end-all critereon.

If you choose to re-read what I originally typed, I stated that generally a selection is first made based on acceptable performance, than other factors such as PPW are considered. Reguardless of battery life, if performance is not acceptable, how useful is it?

In your example below, yes, I may chose the one that works twice the speed (1/3 batt life), or may not. It all depends on what it's being used for. My only contention was that PPW was the governing criterea for selection.


RE: So when will AMD get
By Oregonian2 on 1/25/2009 2:41:12 AM , Rating: 2
Okay, your first line previously, you said that you completely disagreed with what I said. Now you say you do agree that performance per watt is sometimes important -- which is what I said. I'll accept that "complete disagreement".

BTW - In your complete disagreement you also disagreed with my statement that Google (etc) care about power. Would you like to address that? Google's statements seem to disagree with you on that point.


RE: So when will AMD get
By mindless1 on 1/25/2009 1:11:53 AM , Rating: 2
No, the criterion is not centered around overall performance for many people. Low noise, reliability, cost, are as significant today.

Why? Because for most uses a PC, CPU, is not the bottleneck, the user is. Even the typical server has quite a bit of idle time if properly designed.

The majority of enthusiasts, let alone the general public agree with this. Proof - lower cost parts/systems greatly outsell the middle and high end. Few if anyone does this while not realizing you can spend more to get something faster.


RE: So when will AMD get
By Oregonian2 on 1/25/2009 2:44:19 AM , Rating: 2
Quite right. Low power, size, and cost are the whole point of the new and fast growing "netbook" sector of laptops where the Atom's "low" performance is way more than adequate.


RE: So when will AMD get
By rudolphna on 1/25/2009 10:37:06 AM , Rating: 3
And when you do that, AMD still has more than enough performance for the average consumer. The problem is that companies like Dell, HP, Acer etc are afraid to use AMD products because Intel could choose to cut "rebates and price cuts" for them.


RE: So when will AMD get
By kmmatney on 1/24/2009 5:13:35 AM , Rating: 2
"if I'm going to build a rig and use it for 2-3 years, I want to make sure it has the best parts in it to begin with, within reason."

No "enthusiast" should have the same computer setup for 3 years! I haven't had a basic computer setup last 3 years since 1990 (and by your standard I'm not an "enthusiast" since I buy the best bang for the buck).


RE: So when will AMD get
By Reclaimer77 on 1/24/2009 8:21:27 AM , Rating: 3
quote:
No "enthusiast" should have the same computer setup for 3 years!


Given the amazing improvements Intel has made in overclocking with the Core2's and Quads, I can't really agree with this statement anymore.

You can take your old Core2, slap a water setup on it, and go WAY beyond 4ghz and have a lot of fun doing it. This doesn't qualify you to be an "enthusiast" ?

The days of PC's being obsolete after a year are long gone.


RE: So when will AMD get
By mindless1 on 1/25/2009 1:17:54 AM , Rating: 2
You're being subjective. An enthusiast isn't forced to buy new hardware on any particular schedule, there is no reason why a system can't be used for 3+ years. In fact it's arguable that changing a system more often will require more time to do so, than the time saved by having higher performance.

Certainly some enthusiasts will choose to upgrade more often, but ownership is not a requirement. Take car enthusiasts for example, do they love exotic cars any less if they don't own one, or if they picked the right car for their needs does it become unusable 3 years later? Same for a computer, if your uses are the same a sane person only thinks about reliability, with a decent quality system typically lasting for more than 3 years.


RE: So when will AMD get
By rudolphna on 1/23/2009 12:58:51 PM , Rating: 4
What are you smoking? The phenom II is every bit the chip that the Core 2 Quad is, and it overclocks just as well! The Radoen 4xxx series beats the chit out of everything NVIDIA has. Drivers are better for ATi.... Where do you get the idea that AMD/ATi is worse than their competitors? Take off the Intel/NVIDIA fanboy glasses, and take a look around.


RE: So when will AMD get
By RallyMaster on 1/23/09, Rating: 0
RE: So when will AMD get
By aj28 on 1/23/2009 3:29:08 PM , Rating: 4
Actually, in some cases the Phenom II is more efficient than the C2Q... It depends on whether you're looking at idle or burn, what chipset you're using, etc. Also, clock-for-clock doesn't really matter because its the SKUs on the market and their associated cost that really make the difference. Oh, and two things on the performance crown: One, nobody makes a huge amount of money off holding it, and two, ATi held it for much longer than nVidia has thusfar with the 295, so cool your jets. A response will come in due time...

[p.s. So your statement is invalid...]


RE: So when will AMD get
By Reclaimer77 on 1/23/2009 4:44:58 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
What are you smoking? The phenom II is every bit the chip that the Core 2 Quad is, and it overclocks just as well!


FUD alert FUD alert.


RE: So when will AMD get
By rudolphna on 1/24/2009 10:09:04 AM , Rating: 2
RE: So when will AMD get
By Reclaimer77 on 1/25/09, Rating: 0
RE: So when will AMD get
By rudolphna on 1/25/2009 10:42:05 AM , Rating: 2
At least they overclock PERIOD. At least they can manage 4Ghz at ALL, regardless of temps. Ill tell you something right now, the original phenom could not, in any way shape or fashion ever reach that. Hell, even my Intel E7300 has stability issues at 3.33Ghz unless I crank the voltage up to almost 1.35v (vs 1.18 at 3Ghz). I know I probably got a bad one, but still. The point is that AMD can finally overclock well again.. Only completely devoted enthusiasts who have to try for every single last Mhz will care. Everyone else would be happy they could get maybe 3.4-3.6gh.


RE: So when will AMD get
By Targon on 1/26/2009 8:22:06 AM , Rating: 2
Have you thought that the Anandtech sample was a bad one, rather than it being typical? There are other reasons for things either clocking or overclocking well, including how many memory modules are in the system. Going with 2 2GB modules would probably result in higher overclocks than 4 modules. The quality of the memory is another issue, BIOS revisions, etc.

While it is true that having "The One" configuration for great overclocking isn't a good indicator of how well something will overclock for the majority of people, the maturity of chipsets and BIOS code will be an important factor.

I also wonder about things like the 790FX vs. 790GX for overclocking potential.

I am not saying that the Phenom 2 can currently BEAT the Intel processors, but considering this is still early in the life cycle of the Phenom 2, there is good reason to expect good things to come in the next three months.

Now, on a slightly personal note, FUD is normally used when it comes to attack tactics, trying to make people doubt the ability of a competitor to be able to compete. At no time has anyone implied that Intel is not in a position to compete, which is VERY different from what Intel fans tend to do. You may call "BS" on some things, but FUD is the wrong term. Saying that some people are being overly optimistic about the abilities of the Phenom 2 would be a fair assessment, but it isn't completely unfounded based on different reports.

I don't have a Phenom 2 just yet since I can't justify the $235 purchase for another couple of months, but I expect it to perform decently, and since I have a system ready for it, paying $235 to go from a 2.8GHz Athlon 64 X2 5600+ to a 3.0GHz Phenom 2 that SHOULD get to 3.5GHz on air isn't a bad deal at all. Compare that to needing a new motherboard for every generation of Intel processor, even when the socket was the same, and AMD DOES have a bit of an advantage when it comes to cost of ownership.


RE: So when will AMD get
By Reclaimer77 on 1/26/2009 1:26:08 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
Have you thought that the Anandtech sample was a bad one, rather than it being typical?


Funny, all the Core2 and i7 samples seem to be good ones. I guess AMD purposely sends bad/untested samples to review sites, right ? Or based on your conjecture, one could just as well assume quality control for AMD is down across the board.

See where 'what if's' lead you ?

quote:
I am not saying that the Phenom 2 can currently BEAT the Intel processors


But HE did by saying Phenom II's blow away Intel's and overclock better.

quote:
I am not saying that the Phenom 2 can currently BEAT the Intel processors, but considering this is still early in the life cycle of the Phenom 2, there is good reason to expect good things to come in the next three months.


In three months we can expect a price cut for the i7's and perhaps an even further price cut on the Core2 quads. Judging by the pace of AMD's R&D and the ever crumbling state of their finances, I think it's safe to say they still wont have an answer to Intel by then.

quote:
Compare that to needing a new motherboard for every generation of Intel processor , even when the socket was the same, and AMD DOES have a bit of an advantage when it comes to cost of ownership.


More FUD ! My 2 year old P5B mobo can run all Core2's and all of the 65nm quads. Year old mobo's can run ALL Intel desktop CPU except the i7, which is a server socket by the way. So where do you get off making this statement ?


RE: So when will AMD get
By FaceMaster on 1/24/2009 5:49:08 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
What are you smoking? The phenom II is every bit the chip that the Core 2 Quad is, and it overclocks just as well! The Radoen 4xxx series beats the chit out of everything NVIDIA has. Drivers are better for ATi.... Where do you get the idea that AMD/ATi is worse than their competitors? Take off the Intel/NVIDIA fanboy glasses, and take a look around.


What are YOU smoking? The new ATI line is indeed very good, but to say it beats everything Nvidia has is absurd. The 9800 GT is about £20 cheaper and almost the same speed before you add AA, the 9800 GTX+ trades blows with the ATI 4870 and the 295 thrashes ATI's 4870 xX2 thingy. Do you have any proof that drivers are better? I can't find any.

Besides, the graphics card market is very small compared to the processor market, and processors are where AMD is particularly struggling. The Core 2 Quad is now 2 years old. The Core i7 beats AMD. Take off YOUR fanboy glasses.


RE: So when will AMD get
By gescom on 1/25/2009 4:49:06 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
the 9800 GTX+ trades blows with the ATI 4870 and the 295 thrashes ATI's 4870 xX2 thingy.


The 9800 GTX+ trades blows with the Nvidia 260 & Nvidia 280 :)
That's much better.


RE: So when will AMD get
By Lightnix on 1/25/2009 4:55:50 PM , Rating: 2
"the 9800 GTX+ trades blows with the ATI 4870"

In Dead Space. Other than that there are no blows traded, the 4870 crushes it. It'd be more accurate to say the 9800 GTX+ trades blows with the 4870's price tag and the 4850's performance to be quite frank.


RE: So when will AMD get
By CommodoreVic20 on 1/23/2009 1:06:16 PM , Rating: 5
You need to remember that AMD to Intel is like David to Goliath. AMD is TINY compared to Intel. It takes enormous resources to develop CPUS. Its amazing that AMD with a small fraction of the resources Intel has is able to compete with Intel. This isn't Ford vs GM, there is a HUGE difference.


RE: So when will AMD get
By rburnham on 1/23/2009 3:01:56 PM , Rating: 5
Correct! That is why, despite Intel's dominance, I find AMD to be an impressive company for the most part.


RE: So when will AMD get
By TomZ on 1/23/09, Rating: -1
RE: So when will AMD get
By Oregonian2 on 1/23/2009 7:44:39 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
You need to remember that AMD to Intel is like David to Goliath.


True, but they're still David and don't perform to Goliath levels.


RE: So when will AMD get
By Hawkido on 1/23/09, Rating: 0
RE: So when will AMD get
By Venatici on 1/23/2009 12:29:54 PM , Rating: 2
Wow! Something he said seems to have struck a nerve. Why so defensive?

The issue at hand is the very real risk of AMD going BK. You seem to think this is just another Intel vs. AMD flamewar.

Maybe you should take off your AMD "fanboi" sunglasses.


RE: So when will AMD get
By Timbers on 1/23/2009 12:40:23 PM , Rating: 2
If AMD goes bankrupt its bad for everyone. If Intel has no competition, prices go up, innovation goes down... So I encourage all the AMD fanboys to go out and BUY AMD products. Can you image if only Intel is selling processors!?


RE: So when will AMD get
By judasmachine on 1/23/2009 2:58:28 PM , Rating: 2
so how much did you lose on your AMD stock?

/I kid I kid


RE: So when will AMD get
By Oregonian2 on 1/23/2009 7:46:46 PM , Rating: 3
Doesn't have to be AMD, all of my 401K's (got four of them) are tanked.


RE: So when will AMD get
By phazers on 1/23/2009 4:57:52 PM , Rating: 2
Hawkido:
quote:
Just look around... it isn't rosey for everyone BUT AMD. It semeels like rotten eggs for everyone but IBM and Apple.


Of course not. I only mentioned AMD since that is the topic of this thread. Rumor has it that even IBM is planning some massive layoffs shortly, despite their Q4 profits.

AMD is struggling under a MASSIVE debt load compared to their earnings potential, which is probably going to prove disastrous in this economy. Their total assets decreased by $4B in 2008, while they only reduced liabilities by 10% of that amount - $400M. That's like having a 30 year mortgage at 7% interest or so. I believe AMD still owes close to $5B on the ATI purchase debt, although I can't tell from the filing report since it isn't broken down.

Moody's reduced AMDs rating once again, they likely cannot borrow from traditional sources, they have sold off a lot of assets, looks like a pricewar with Intel's Penryn CPUs is starting up which will reduce ASPs even more, etc etc etc. And now Intel is raising the x86 license again as a barrier to the Abu Dhabi fab partnership (or sale since AMD is now only getting 34% ownership I think). No wonder Meyer said the "outlook is murky"...

If the economy doesn't turn around in 6 months, and the fab spinoff doesn't happen or gets delayed in court, I think AMD will bankrupt and get sold off, or somebody will buy them out for the ATI part.


RE: So when will AMD get
By Targon on 1/27/2009 8:36:25 AM , Rating: 2
While the economy may be bad, those who survive on lower-cost products tend to do a bit better than those who really need their high margin products to sell well. In the case of AMD vs. Intel, it is far better to sell a lot of $400-$500 computers than it is to sell only a few $1000-$1500 computers in this environment.


RE: So when will AMD get
By dragonbif on 1/23/2009 12:15:25 PM , Rating: 2
Dont forget 2008 was not the best year for anyone and not to many people expected it. I always wondered how they would be doing if we didnt have the downturn. They came out with a good ATI card last year and their top card was the best you could get for 6 months.


RE: So when will AMD get
By StevoLincolnite on 1/23/2009 12:25:38 PM , Rating: 3
I would love for another Radeon 9700 type release where they pummeled nVidia at every corner coupled with an Athlon 64 styled release where they pummeled Intel, a few months of that and the company may start to look more rosey.

However my next build is going to be a Phenom 2 + Radeon 4xxx based system.

Without AMD/ATI there will be less competitive force to stimulate Intel and nVidia from driving more rock-solid technology until another contender arrives.

However AMD should start making more deals across the board with system manufacturers and get an Atom type chip out with an integrated GPU for a cheap low-cost all-in-one systems/netbooks.

Plus Advertising might help, the average joe doesn't know what the "Athlon is" let alone the Phenom.


RE: So when will AMD get
By rudolphna on 1/23/2009 12:50:02 PM , Rating: 2
I agree, I can watch TV and quite often see an Intel ad, but I can never, NEVER, remember seeing an AMD ad.I know alot of people who didnt/dont even know there is a company BESIDES intel.


RE: So when will AMD get
By Oregonian2 on 1/23/2009 7:48:40 PM , Rating: 2
Don't remember those "AMD Inside" television ads?

:-)


RE: So when will AMD get
By dragonbif on 1/23/2009 8:27:38 PM , Rating: 4
Those 3 blue guys right? ;) Thats how Intel got people to buy their P3 and P4 when AMD had something better. That and AMD just did not have what was needed to produce the chips in mass to sell to the OEMs.


RE: So when will AMD get
By Bucky Beaver on 1/24/2009 11:02:15 AM , Rating: 2
Living in the Washington DC area, I recall seeing lots of AMD Opteron ads in the Metro (subway) and on the sides of buses. Since a lot of the gov't IT personnel take advantage of the transit subsidy benefit (where they get about #130 a month to ride public transportation in lieu of clogging up the highways & streets in POVs), that was a pretty smart move by AMD advertisers - cheap and in front of the eyeballs of people who make big purchasing decisions. So while Intel had the Blue Men and maybe the Dell Dude on TV, and spending many millions to do so, AMD was targeting an audience who buys thousands of systems at a time, and spending probably less than 1% than Intel.

AMD is not as completely clueless as some people like to think! :)


RE: So when will AMD get
By rudolphna on 1/25/2009 10:45:50 AM , Rating: 2
Never said they are clueless, Im just saying I rarely see Their Athlon/Phenom/ATi products marketed on TV. You see those Multiply your life intel ads, the centrino ads... What ads does AMD put out on TV/movies? I havent seen any. Best buy pushes intel products first over AMD in my experience. And people are clueless so.... AMD Cannot survive on IT sales alone.


RE: So when will AMD get
By maveric7911 on 1/23/09, Rating: -1
RE: So when will AMD get
By CrystalBay on 1/23/2009 12:50:16 PM , Rating: 2
The game devs and Publishers have all but given up on PC games. I mean all we PC gamers are getting a Effed up console ports (FEAR2 ,FC2,etc). I don't see how any GPU's manufacturer can survive, much less regain their profits of yesteryear ...


RE: So when will AMD get
By sliderule on 1/23/2009 1:20:12 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I mean all we PC gamers are getting a Effed up console ports (FEAR2 ,FC2,etc). I don't see how any GPU's manufacturer can survive...


Who do you think makes the GPU's in the consoles? I agree on PC gaming, it's the red headed step child...sadly


RE: So when will AMD get
By StevoLincolnite on 1/24/2009 12:55:43 AM , Rating: 2
Well ATI doesn't make the GPU for the Xbox 360 that's for sure, They just designed it and Microsoft gets it done elsewhere. (They learn't from the nVidia debacle), so the same thing would go for the Wii as well.

I'm not sure about the PS3 and the nVidia relationship though.


RE: So when will AMD get
By rudolphna on 1/23/2009 12:55:25 PM , Rating: 4
What are you talking about? ATi drivers are fantastic! FAR better than NVIDIAs drivers for vista. I have owned a Radeon 7500, a Radeon 9600, a radeon 2600, and a 4670, and an integrated 690G chipset. For nvidia, I have had a GF2 MX440, a GF FX5500, a GF 6600GT, and 8600GT. Guess which crash less ALWAYS- ATi. I cant remember the last time I had a BSOD/crash related to the graphics card from ATi. Whereas, with NVIDIA they have always happened (excepting the MX440) with some regularity. Its been proven that the vast majority of vista crashes are NVIDIA driver related. And ATi's catalyst is much better than what NVIDIA provides.


RE: So when will AMD get
By maveric7911 on 1/23/09, Rating: -1
RE: So when will AMD get
By aj28 on 1/23/2009 3:32:57 PM , Rating: 5
I'd be interested to hear what statistics you have to back that little claim of yours up, because I like the guy above you have been perfectly satisfied with ATi drivers for years.


RE: So when will AMD get
By BladeVenom on 1/23/2009 9:28:50 PM , Rating: 2
All you have to do is look at Microsoft's crash reports. Nvidia driver were the number one cause of Vista crashes. ATI clearly has the more stable drivers.
http://www.engadget.com/2008/03/27/nvidia-drivers-...


RE: So when will AMD get
By sliderule on 1/23/2009 1:28:53 PM , Rating: 2
I think it depends on the OS.

My experience from running two machine(one vista, one xp, with dual boot linux) with nvidia and ati.

linux: ati= getting better, but still crap....nvidia= ok

XP: ati= crap....nvidia= ok

Vista: ati= excellent....nvidia= crap


RE: So when will AMD get
By ChristopherO on 1/23/2009 3:35:12 PM , Rating: 2
Actually they are slated to get some of the bailout. 16B of the 850B package has been earmarked for tech companies. Tech firms want that number updated to 40B.

It doesn't sound like this is in the realm of "direct" assistance (it could be), but more so a mandatory replacement of 16B worth of government PCs.


Buyout
By bugzrrad on 1/23/2009 1:26:19 PM , Rating: 2
Microsoft should buy AMD/ATI and use the resources to assemble the next-gen Xbox (720?) and their own personal computers just like Apple.

I would seriously consider buying a Microsoft-brand PC under the assumption that the systems would be unbelievably stable - considering all the components (hardware/software) come from one company.

P.S. I have no idea how much AMD is "worth".

Thoughts?




RE: Buyout
By phaxmohdem on 1/23/2009 1:43:13 PM , Rating: 2
AMD Market Value via Nasdaq.com a few minutes ago: $1,260,025,560

I'd offer $20 for them, but I've already got enough debt on my own without assuming their's as well.


RE: Buyout
By bugzrrad on 1/23/2009 2:31:04 PM , Rating: 2
Doesn't MS have like $20b in the bank? Hmmmmm.

Would MS benefit from not dealing with OEMs (cut out the middle-man)? My guess is that they would have higher margins as they wouldn't be selling the OS license at a discount on their own machines. Of course they would continue to sell to Dell/HP/etc as well.

Plus, the margins would be higher on console sales too. And there would be fewer scheduling conflicts on chip availability because they would be in charge of manufacturing all the components.


RE: Buyout
By TomZ on 1/23/2009 3:07:39 PM , Rating: 3
Remember that Microsoft's largest customers are computer OEMs like HP, Dell, etc. It would be foolish for them to enter that market and compete with their customers. Microsoft building PCs will never happen.


RE: Buyout
By Penti on 1/23/2009 6:16:16 PM , Rating: 2
Plus why enter a market where not even the OEMs builds (manufacture) there own machines? The OEMs already does a great job. There's not really a need for more systems builders with the same parts from the same manufacturers.


RE: Buyout
By Lightnix on 1/25/2009 4:46:16 PM , Rating: 2
Wait - doesn't that mean that AMD are worth less than the amount they lost last year (just over a third, in fact)? I do hope they don't plan to make these kinds of losses this quarter or there'll barely be an AMD left...


RE: Buyout
By Shmak on 1/23/2009 2:38:58 PM , Rating: 1
NOOOOOOOooooooooooo...


RE: Buyout
By bugzrrad on 1/23/2009 2:49:12 PM , Rating: 2
explain?


RE: Buyout
By Oregonian2 on 1/23/2009 7:51:11 PM , Rating: 2
Why would AMD stop bleeding money profusely with Microsoft ownership?

Why would Microsoft want that?


RE: Buyout
By Zapp Brannigan on 1/24/2009 6:36:53 PM , Rating: 2
Nah, not Microsoft, AMD does need money to compete with intel, but what it really needs is a company with it's own fab's and technology plus OEM sway and a decent advertising budget. That'll be IBM.

Most of AMD's foundry technology was done in partnership with IBM, they are both founding members of the hypertransport protocol group, they both hate intel. All IBM needs is AMD's x86 license, mix in AMD's processor staff with IBM's engineering excellence and you should be able to come up with a competitive product.

Of course, Intel will never let IBM have the x86 licence and IBM probably won't want to get into the ultra-competitve, low margin CPU business when they already make more money then intel anyway, so it's all wishful thinking on my part.


RE: Buyout
By Reclaimer77 on 1/24/2009 11:03:33 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Of course, Intel will never let IBM have the x86 licence


Why should they ? They invented the damn thing after all.

IBM is a successful company. Merging with AMD, who has been bleeding billions for years, isn't very smart.


Potential disaster in waiting...
By crystal clear on 1/24/2009 3:16:07 AM , Rating: 2
AMD is not talking about this-

On December 15, 2008, Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. (the “Company”), delivered a notice of termination to Lehman Brothers OTC Derivatives Inc. (“Lehman Derivatives”) of the capped call transaction that the Company entered into with Lehman Derivatives, represented by Lehman Brothers Inc. (“Lehman Brothers”) as its agent, in connection with the issuance by the Company of $2.2 billion aggregate principal amount of 6.00% Convertible Senior Notes due 2015 (the “Notes”) in April 2007.

The capped call transaction was intended to to reduce the potential common stock dilution to then existing stockholders of the Company upon conversion of the Notes by allowing the Company to receive shares of common stock from the counterparty generally equal to the number of shares of common stock issuable upon conversion of the Notes.

http://secfilings.nyse.com/filing.php?doc=1&attach...

Lehman Brothers has gone into bankcruptsy , so for all practical purposes the money AMD paid to Lehman Brothers is lost & not recoverable.

Now what does AMD do in 2015 about these $2.2 billion aggregate principal amount of 6.00% Convertible Senior Notes due 2015 .

More on this link-

More AMD tragedies

http://www.dailytech.com/Article.aspx?newsid=13811...




RE: Potential disaster in waiting...
By teckytech9 on 1/24/2009 2:59:05 PM , Rating: 2
Entering capped call transactions with Lehman was not a good thing for the company. Just how much exposure the company had with Lehman is not good for their balance sheet either. Any company who did business with Lehman (with their exorbitant, fees) was duped into believing that these "capped call transactions" would have prevented share dilution.

Hopefully the market will turn-around and the Phenom II X4 940 & 920 will be successful for them.


RE: Potential disaster in waiting...
By crystal clear on 1/26/2009 2:56:49 AM , Rating: 2
The next 8 Q for the years 2009 & 2010 are guarranteed to be even worse for AMD due to the recession & its ever falling marketshare plus poor future sales, however much the Phenoms are low priced.

Low prices to maintain current marketshare & or increase marketshare also have lower profit margins.

I will NOT be surprised to hear that AMD is selling at cost price its Phenoms just to survive in the market.

Its not INTEL but the recession thats doing the damage.

Dont keep any hopes of a "market turn-around" as 2009/10 are the worst years any company can hope for.

The very commonly used phrase & excuse-

"It will get more worse before it gets better"

is a nightmare every company has to live with on a day to day basis.

By the time it gets better it will be too late for AMD.

Yes AMD can expect a bailout with those petro dollars,but even those petro dollar economies are themselves in a serious crisis.

You will hear plenty on this, namely the UAE in 2009..the bubble is about to burst...

Lower oil revenues due to lower demand/consumptions & lower prices worldwide combined with massive spendings by UAE will result in a CRASH.

This itself is a Potential disaster in waiting...

The first signs of this will be the once booming real estate/property markets going bust in Dubai.

Back to AMD to summarize it-

AMD's "Financial Engineering" will NOT save them for much long.


By teckytech9 on 1/27/2009 1:28:16 AM , Rating: 2
AMD's current predicament is viewed by many interested companies as an "opportunity in disguise."

Who are the interested companies? Anyone who is in the microprocessor business manufacturing x86, Cell, or ARM architectures.

If AMD fails then Intel won't have any need to innovate and prices will stay level for several years.

IMHO there are higher interests that won't allow this to happen. Heck, the Chinese could buy AMD outright if they wanted too, and would be blocked by the US just like 3com.

I agree that margins are falling and oil revenues are lower. However, prices could "theoretically" go higher just as fast as they have fallen.

Today AMD trades at $2 a share.


If AMD Should tank.
By Shida on 1/24/2009 5:16:25 PM , Rating: 2
While waiting for the Socket AM3 Motherboards to come out with Nvidia Chipsets, I am finding this quite disturbing and has me thinking of going Intel.

A question for anyone out there that has ever been in a similar situation: What would you do if AMD should tank? Keep using your computer until no support for it exists? or just move to Intel immediately ?




RE: If AMD Should tank.
By mindless1 on 1/25/2009 2:43:53 AM , Rating: 2
What in the world are you talking about? If they tank, exactly what kind of "support" did you think you would miss having if there were an AMD CPU installed? You figure you'll call them sometime if your windows installation gets a virus or something?

Why would you switch anything based on a company which sold you a piece of hardware having gone under? Wouldn't you replace the system based on the same factors either way?


RE: If AMD Should tank.
By Shida on 1/25/2009 2:48:02 PM , Rating: 2
The "support" which I was referring to, sorry, is if, say, the hardware goes bad and I would need them to help me out in either replacing it or repair it, etc. Obviously I'm not going to call them for software support.

Also. My question was not if AMD were going to provide support if they should go under. But rather if it really does not matter in using hardware from a company that no longer exists and still be able to continue to using the hardware for as long as possible without needing to switch to a different platform (Intel).

quote:
Why would you switch anything based on a company which sold you a piece of hardware having gone under?


I have not bought anything yet.

quote:
Wouldn't you replace the system based on the same factors either way


Moreover I should have clarified from the start.

You see I find Intel set ups (involving the cheapest i7 CPU) to still being very expensive compared to AMD's offerings. I've made a some wishlists at newegg.com. And every time I do a build involving i7 (the choice I would make if I were to go with Intel) is that the Motherboard, RAM, and CPU would be the components to cause the build overall to cost more.

I know, I could go for a C2Q, but I don't want to. I'm also aware that other components could be cut to make the build cheaper (but aside of the mentioned three, I'm happy and will not change those other components of the build).

The other final thing mindless1, is that the decision to go with either or is being done with long-term usage in mind (think around 8 years of sticking with the build I'm slowly making). So that's why I'm approaching the way I am.

But thank you for reading my post.


RE: If AMD Should tank.
By Targon on 1/26/2009 8:27:52 AM , Rating: 2
You still would not be going back to AMD unless it is the CPU that goes bad. If the motherboard dies, and you have an AMD chipset, you still go back to the motherboard company for support. For the video card, it still comes down to the manufacturer for the card since AMD doesn't really sell AMD/ATI built video cards at this point.

On a positive note, even with the economy being bad, there will still be a market for low-cost computers, and with the Phenom 2 for design, it's not going to be a bad thing. The only problem AMD is having right now is companies like HP selling more NVIDIA chipset based machines than AMD based machines. Where are the 780G or 790GX based desktops from HP and other companies?


What AMD should Consider
By Ammohunt on 1/23/2009 2:00:41 PM , Rating: 1
The problem with AMD is the are competing in the x86 processor world. They should either resurrect the Alpha architecture, MIPS Architecture or come up with an entirely new Processor design to compete for future cloud computing setups and server markets.




RE: What AMD should Consider
By TomZ on 1/23/2009 3:09:27 PM , Rating: 2
They can come up with whatever design and use whatever architecture they like, so long as it can run X86 software.

The recent improvements like Netburst -> Core 2, and Core 2 -> Core i7 prove that there are still good ideas that can be applied to improve performance of X86 architecture machines.


RE: What AMD should Consider
By Oregonian2 on 1/23/2009 7:55:19 PM , Rating: 4
They can't resurrect the Alpha architecture. The Alpha architecture belongs to (drum roll....) Intel.

DEC sold the Alpha architecture to Compaq who then later sold it to Intel (in 2001).


AMD deserves it
By clnee55 on 1/25/2009 9:02:19 PM , Rating: 2
AMD has been in the Red for many year yet still pay the CEO $1M a year. They deserve to go bankrupt.




RE: AMD deserves it
By Roy2001 on 1/26/2009 4:38:39 AM , Rating: 2
Actually, Ruiz pocketed 6M before he step down from CEO position when AMD lost billion's of dollars.


Swan song
By kontorotsui on 1/23/2009 12:43:37 PM , Rating: 2
I really hope Phenom 2 and the HD4870 aren't AMD's last beautifully swan song.
Or if they are, that it is mistaken like the ancient belief.




...In other news
By AntiV6 on 1/23/2009 7:48:15 PM , Rating: 2
The sky is blue.




Hemorrhage
By icanhascpu on 1/23/2009 8:18:29 PM , Rating: 2
And while AMD is bleeding out they are trying to contend with Intel on the netbook platform with an inferior CPU that is just another hole in the jugular of AMDs R&D and budget.

Go go management! Maybe you and Yahoo! can hook up.




By crystal clear on 1/24/2009 3:32:16 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Intel, announced yesterday that it would close some of its fabrication plants and consolidate manufacturing to improve its financial outlook.


Intel's Barrett to retire as tech crisis simmers

(Reuters) - Intel Corp Chairman Craig Barrett, the courtly former academic credited with building the company into the world's foremost chip maker, will retire in May after 35 years at the firm.

Independent director Jane Shaw will become nonexecutive chairman of the chip powerhouse as Silicon Valley struggles through potentially one of its worst-ever crises, with companies from Microsoft Corp to Seagate Technology laying off thousands to try to offset crumbling corporate and consumer spending.

Barrett is a member of senior management who represents Intel to foreign governments and is involved in a number of international educational projects. Shaw, however, will be Intel's first chairman recruited from outside the company's executive ranks since Arthur Rock, an Intel co-founder and venture capitalist.

Both Shaw and Barrett are aged 69.

http://www.reuters.com/article/technologyNews/idUS...




AMD is not number 2 chip maker
By Gul Westfale on 1/25/2009 12:28:17 AM , Rating: 2
AMD is not he second largest chipmaker in the world, only the second largest x86 chip maker. dailytech editors should know "little" details like that...




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