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AMD "Barcelona" die shot.
AMD reports its Q4 earnings

Yesterday, DailyTech reported on Intel's Q4 2007 earnings. The chip giant generated revenue of $10.1 billion USD, operating income of $2.2 billion USD and net income of $1.9 billion USD.

Despite Intel's performance for the quarter -- which outpaced Q4 2006 by a wide margin -- investors still drove the stock price for the company down 12 percent.

It's now AMD's turn to show its books and the results don't look very promising. The Sunnyvale, California-based company reported Q4 2007 revenue of $1.770 billion USD, a net loss of $1.722 billion USD and an operating loss of $1.678 billion USD.

For all of 2007, AMD recorded revenue of $6.012 billion USD and a net loss of $3.379 billion USD. AMD also reported that ATI, which it purchased in 2006 for $5.4 billion USD, is now worth 30 percent less.

"We were close to break-even operationally for the quarter, reducing our fourth quarter non-GAAP operating loss to $9 million. We improved gross margin by three points sequentially, driven by increased shipments of new products, higher average selling prices and cost containment actions," said Robert J. Rivet, AMD CFO Robert Rivet. "We shipped a record number of microprocessor units in the quarter, including nearly four hundred thousand quad-core processors."

As is the case with most tech companies, AMD expects earnings to take a dip during Q1 2008 -- the first quarter is traditionally a slow period for tech manufacturers.

In November 2007, AMD received a cash infusion from Mubadala Development Company, a United Arab Emirates (UAE) government-funded investment firm. Mubadala took an 8.1 percent stake in AMD valued at $622 million USD.

At the time, AMD Chairman and CEO Hector Ruiz was delighted in the investment stating, "This investment strengthens AMD’s ability to deliver customer-centric innovation and choice to the marketplace, creating greater value for all of our shareholders."

AMD will need all the help it can get to push forward its quad-core Phenom and Opteron processors. AMD has plans to ramp up 45nm chip production during the first half of 2008 while 32nm parts are scheduled to arrive in 2009.



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AMD Reports Net Loss
By Fnoob on 1/17/2008 7:30:32 PM , Rating: 5
They are quite good at that.




RE: AMD Reports Net Loss
By Bigjee on 1/17/2008 7:40:42 PM , Rating: 2
it was quite hot to touch.


RE: AMD Reports Net Loss
By Kilobyte on 1/17/2008 7:46:57 PM , Rating: 3
AMD lately has reported net losses, but mostly due to the acquisition of ATI. Once that debt is paid off, AMD will start posting at the least only millions of dollars lost, if not break even and or profit.
What people don't realize is that AMD is actually better off financially than it was 5+ years ago. In addition, it's kind of hard to compete to a company with a revenue that's over 5x greater than yours.
Eventually, the ATI acquisition will begin to pay off, but that's a few years from now.


RE: AMD Reports Net Loss
By phaxmohdem on 1/17/2008 8:02:37 PM , Rating: 2
Does anybody know when AMD will pay off their ATI credit card?


RE: AMD Reports Net Loss
By TITAN1080 on 1/18/2008 9:11:18 AM , Rating: 1
Now you know as well as I do that nobody pays off their credit cards.


RE: AMD Reports Net Loss
By napalmjack on 1/18/2008 10:52:36 AM , Rating: 5
Me and AMD: we both make too many technology purchases.


RE: AMD Reports Net Loss
By TSS on 1/17/2008 8:21:51 PM , Rating: 2
the problem beeing they admitted themselves that ati is 30% worth less now then they paid for it. meaning it'll take alot longer then anticipated to earn back the investment.

also, i think AMD's completly lost it trying to keep up with the intel tick-tock model. you said it yourself, intel has 5x more money to spend, at the very least. i'd wish they'd go back into their underdog position for another year or 2, consolidate profits and then see how far technology has improved and how much cheaper it's gotten. new architectures/process nodes aren't as cheap as they where a few decades ago.


RE: AMD Reports Net Loss
By Haltech on 1/17/2008 11:24:06 PM , Rating: 2
talk to their investors, the stock price 5 years ago was about 5 dollars. Now its like 6. Just check yahoo finance with AMD ticker symbol

http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=AMD&t=5y&l=on&z=m&...


RE: AMD Reports Net Loss
By defter on 1/18/2008 3:28:29 AM , Rating: 3
How on the earth AMD can pay off their $5.5B debt quickly? One needs to make profits to pay off the debt, one can't pay off debt while making only lossess...

quote:
What people don't realize is that AMD is actually better off financially than it was 5+ years ago.


5+ years ago AMD didn't have $5.5B debt, nor they made huge losses.


RE: AMD Reports Net Loss
By Regs on 1/18/2008 10:53:20 AM , Rating: 2
or 3x as much capital.


RE: AMD Reports Net Loss
By BruceLeet on 1/18/2008 3:32:52 AM , Rating: 1
Please understand that acquisitions dont bloom over night and it may take a few years for two companies of this size to come to positive fruition. I am most certainly not a fanboy of Intel over AMD, Nvidia over AMD, I just like the products for their performance/value but in all honesty I see AMD coming through with something, because they are innovators, Intel fanboys will rate me down but AMD has always been the innovator, people who know everything in the CPU market will agree.


RE: AMD Reports Net Loss
By Oregonian2 on 1/18/2008 2:23:57 PM , Rating: 2
As a design engineer, I'll say that AMD has traditionally been an innovator, but they've never really been able to follow through and make a difference with it. On the other hand Intel has not only "innovated", they've revolutionized the electronics industry multiple times by their innovation (although not in the recent decade or so).
The down thing about ATI in my mind is that my experience with their stuff was very bad. HW was okay but the associated SW was awful, so I've been using nVidia ever since for that reason.


RE: AMD Reports Net Loss
By clnee55 on 1/20/2008 8:28:33 PM , Rating: 2
They only have couple years with the athlon when they were real innovators. That day is over, now they sukc. If not, why can't they beat the core 2 duo. There is nobody in this world who can claim to know everything in the CPU market. So there is nobody who can agree with you.

quote:
Please understand that acquisitions dont bloom over night and it may take a few years for two companies of this size to come to positive fruition. I am most certainly not a fanboy of Intel over AMD, Nvidia over AMD, I just like the products for their performance/value but in all honesty I see AMD coming through with something, because they are innovators, Intel fanboys will rate me down but AMD has always been the innovator, people who know everything in the CPU market will agree.


RE: AMD Reports Net Loss
By Strunf on 1/18/2008 4:19:57 AM , Rating: 5
When we know our friend Hector Ruiz has a fatter paycheck than Paul Otellini one could wonder if AMD is really 10x+ smaller than Intel, actually in 2007 Hector was paid 4x more than Otellini.


RE: AMD Reports Net Loss
By PlasmaBomb on 1/18/2008 8:11:22 AM , Rating: 3
Ouch...


RE: AMD Reports Net Loss
By deeznuts on 1/18/2008 12:57:43 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
What people don't realize is that AMD is actually better off financially than it was 5+ years ago.
Care to back that statement up with some financial reports and/or numbers? I'm too lazy at work right now to dig that up, however I do remember that 5 years ago there wasn't talk about them being taken over by a private equity firm as there was last year.
AMD is hurting right now financially, I'm not sure how you can say otherwise.

However, their numbers while horrid are improving. Their stock is up. Curious isn't it?


RE: AMD Reports Net Loss
By eye smite on 1/17/2008 8:00:56 PM , Rating: 5
AMD is doing a fine job of pushing forward and marketing their products. They're a much larger company now than they were in the days of the athlon xp and growth is painful. They're more competition to intel than they were yrs ago, intel knows that and hence have put their considerable resources to get back on top and stay there, not just in cpu's but all markets that AMD is in. But for the doubters and nay sayers, here's a link on how the opteron dual core with original ddr still scales and outperforms the current xeons, to say nothing of how the xeon is blown away in scaling by the quad opterons.

http://connexitor.com/blog/pivot/entry.php?id=191


RE: AMD Reports Net Loss
By eye smite on 1/17/2008 9:53:21 PM , Rating: 2
Incidentally, I was just browsing best buy's site and they have a computer clearance section now. I counted 3 amd systems on clearance, but there were 9 intel systems on clearance. Without arguing statistics, reviews or anything else, seeing that on best buy's site kind of draws it's own picture.


RE: AMD Reports Net Loss
By jskirwin on 1/17/2008 10:17:24 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
seeing that on best buy's site kind of draws it's own picture.


Yep: market share.
3/12=25% which is roughly their market share of 27% reported by TheInq in Oct'06.


RE: AMD Reports Net Loss
By cochy on 1/17/2008 10:25:54 PM , Rating: 2
That there are more Intel machines in the market? What's your point?


RE: AMD Reports Net Loss
By eye smite on 1/17/2008 10:39:40 PM , Rating: 2
Not if you look at the number of machines for sale at best buy and circuit city. It's pretty equal on desktops between the 2 and circuit city actually has more amd desktops for sale than intel. Amd isn't hurting on sales of oem machines and intel isn't the performance chanp you all think they are. Read the scaling tests done in that link I posted. It's all perception issue, amd is still beating current core2 xeons in scalability with older opteronX2's using original ddr. You like numbers so much, go read it in black and white.


RE: AMD Reports Net Loss
By sweetsauce on 1/18/2008 12:20:31 AM , Rating: 5
I like posts like this every once in a while. I think in all the ps3/360 and hd-dvd/blu-ray bashing and fanboyism that goes on here, we forget the awesome power of the intel/amd fanboys. Their ability to spin is second to none.


RE: AMD Reports Net Loss
By TomZ on 1/18/2008 12:44:56 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
amd is still beating current core2 xeons in scalability with older opteronX2's using original ddr. You like numbers so much, go read it in black and white.

Where can I get some of what you're smokin'?

See if you can find any X2's anywhere near the top of Tom's CPU charts:

http://www23.tomshardware.com/cpu_2007.html


RE: AMD Reports Net Loss
By Polynikes on 1/18/2008 12:54:04 AM , Rating: 2
Honestly, I don't really think I want what he's smoking.


RE: AMD Reports Net Loss
By Viditor on 1/18/2008 1:42:56 AM , Rating: 5
He's right actually...

He should have said Opteron Dual Cores instead of X2s, but the Opterons do indeed scale better than the Xeons.
That's why you get the same or better performance from 4 x dual core Opterons compared to 2 x quad core Xeons, whereas with fewer cores the C2D based chips blow the Opterons away...


RE: AMD Reports Net Loss
By Calin on 1/18/2008 3:22:36 AM , Rating: 2
Even the C2D based Xeons are restricted in performance by the common FSB architecture - they start at better performance levels, but the scale up is just as painful as with P4-based Xeons.
However, this will change in the next year or so, when Intel abandons the common FSB model (one FSB for all the processors in system)


RE: AMD Reports Net Loss
By eye smite on 1/18/2008 7:53:10 AM , Rating: 4
I can see where this is a very viable reasong to play amd down since everyone wants intel to be faster? At 1 core used they turn in virtually the same numbers, but as you add a core all the way up to 8 cores, the slower speed opteron quad core jumps way out ahead. It's ok though, we know all you nay sayers and doubt casters are intel fanboys, just like during the days of the athlon xp vs P4.


RE: AMD Reports Net Loss
By clnee55 on 1/20/2008 8:32:45 PM , Rating: 2
Viditor comes back. Mr expert, when will AMD stockbe $12 as you predicted last year that MAD was a good buy at $12.


RE: AMD Reports Net Loss
By eye smite on 1/18/2008 7:46:56 AM , Rating: 3
Did you bother to even click the link I posted? Obviously not as I said opterons not athlon x2's. Did you read what I said about it being a scalability test, you know where 1, then 2, 3 and all the way up to 8 cores are loaded under the test? No wait, you were looking for cpu charts on Tom's hardware guide that havre nothing to do with scaling as more cores come into play. Wow, just wow...........perception issues at their finest.


RE: AMD Reports Net Loss
By cochy on 1/18/08, Rating: 0
RE: AMD Reports Net Loss
By eye smite on 1/18/2008 11:13:49 AM , Rating: 3
That's an expectation and perception issue, not an amd problem. Intel makes good cpu's, amd makes good cpu's, so it really comes down to preference. Amd isn't sitting still, and by the time intel replaces the FSB bottleneck they've had for yrs, Amd will at least still be competitive if not rivaling them by that time on a greater level. That's where my money is as they've done so in the past.


RE: AMD Reports Net Loss
By vignyan on 1/18/08, Rating: 0
RE: AMD Reports Net Loss
By clnee55 on 1/20/2008 8:34:32 PM , Rating: 2
Another prediction, another hope. Good luck

quote:
Amd isn't sitting still, and by the time intel replaces the FSB bottleneck they've had for yrs, Amd will at least still be competitive if not rivaling them by that time on a greater level. That's where my money is as they've done so in the past.


RE: AMD Reports Net Loss
By clnee55 on 1/21/08, Rating: 0
RE: AMD Reports Net Loss
By ImSpartacus on 1/18/2008 11:54:58 AM , Rating: 2
Is scaling on the server market everything? What about enthusiast desktop market? There's always somewhere where an underdog will succeed.

You shouldn't have to link to one specific website for its benchmarks, it should be obvious what the leader is from multiple independent benchmarks.


RE: AMD Reports Net Loss
By blaster5k on 1/18/2008 1:09:46 PM , Rating: 2
The server market is more lucrative than the enthusiast market. There's more money to made there.


RE: AMD Reports Net Loss
By Xed on 1/18/2008 7:49:53 AM , Rating: 3
Maybe they can modify the upcoming OCZ mind controlled mouse to convince the stockholders it was a 1.6 billion profit instead.


RE: AMD Reports Net Loss
By Mitch101 on 1/18/2008 9:18:51 AM , Rating: 2
We estimated that Phenom because of the lack of speed over the existing X2 processors is causing AMD to have larger losses.

http://freshscoop.com/modules.php?name=News&file=a...

The Phenom costs nearly twice as much to make and was selling at the same price as the Black Edition X2 when the article was written. The X2 outperforms the Phenom still and will for a while because most programs cant utilize multi-core effectively. The B2 errata with bios issue and the reduced operating speed of 2.4ghz vs the 3.2+ ghz X2 means the X2 is still a better buy than the Phenom.

Phenom allows AMD to lose money twice as fast as before.

I hate to see it too but we do mention how we think AMD should focus their efforts going forward.


RE: AMD Reports Net Loss
By Davelo on 1/18/2008 2:18:52 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
They are quite good at that.


If they report a loss they don't have to pay taxes. AMD isn't so stupid after all.


Actually...
By cscpianoman on 1/17/2008 7:48:09 PM , Rating: 5
In all terms AMD is improving, as it should. Most of the loss for the quarter was a writedown from the ATI acquisition of ~1.6 Billion dollars. Overall, without the writedown, they lost a grand total of $9 million. That is a huge improvement from the last few quarters. They just might turn a profit next quarter.




RE: Actually...
By Brandon Hill (blog) on 1/17/2008 7:52:03 PM , Rating: 2
They are actually expecting to turn a profit in the latter half of 2008.


RE: Actually...
By saetneta on 1/18/2008 2:07:29 AM , Rating: 2
Totally agree - This is actually a pretty common accounting practice... if you're going to show a loss -- show as much as possible. They call it the "Big Bath".


RE: Actually...
By MrWho on 1/18/2008 4:50:25 AM , Rating: 2
Cool. Didn't know about it. Still learning something new each day! :)

http://www.investopedia.com/terms/b/bigbath.asp


RE: Actually...
By xti on 1/17/2008 9:32:49 PM , Rating: 2
the -1.6B looks so discouraging before reading it thru, and obviously not everyone is going to understand what most of it means.


RE: Actually...
By Lonyo on 1/17/2008 9:44:50 PM , Rating: 2
Plus it isn't really a surprise to anyone.
Their shares already took a beating over the last few months (due to the already announced loss in value of ATi) so even though they posted a huge loss, their stock hasn't moved much.
It looks terrible now, but really the outlook is fairly positive looking ahead.


RE: Actually...
By Haltech on 1/17/2008 11:31:22 PM , Rating: 2
depends on what your outlook for the market is for the next 18 months. Good for AMD/Intel too, if you dont look at the fact the economy is going into a recession/ possibly more.


RE: Actually...
By defter on 1/18/2008 3:30:59 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Overall, without the writedown, they lost a grand total of $9 million.


Nope, non-GAAP loss was $97M. ATI related writedowns will naturally continue in the future, they are still lot of stuff left.


RE: Actually...
By Black Rainbow on 1/18/2008 6:17:12 AM , Rating: 2
Dude, the CFO mentions it in the article:

quote:
We were close to break-even operationally for the quarter, reducing our fourth quarter non-GAAP operating loss to $9 million.


RE: Actually...
By defter on 1/18/2008 7:40:05 AM , Rating: 3
non-GAAP operating loss != non-GAAP loss.

Check the press release here: http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/080117/20080117006120.html...

Non-GAAP net income (loss): $(97)

Operating loss is quite irrelevant in AMD's case, since they have a large debt for which they have to pay every quarter about $100M of interest.


RE: Actually...
By BruceLeet on 1/18/2008 3:38:26 AM , Rating: 2
cscpianoman please read my post under "AMD Reports net loss"

we need more people thinking like this, understanding.


They need competitive products
By Delegator on 1/17/2008 11:32:52 PM , Rating: 2
The problem for AMD is that they don't have any compelling products. My current PC, which I built myself, has an AMD 3700+ CPU and started with an ATI Radeon 850XL GPU when those were good values and very competitive.

Now, however, there's no reason to look past Intel and nVidia. Unless AMD gets its R&D cranking and competitive, they will be doomed to a poor second place, kept alive only because big buyers like alternatives.




RE: They need competitive products
By Black Rainbow on 1/18/2008 6:26:10 AM , Rating: 3
Not true. The ATi HD3850 and HD3870 are actually very competitive with nVIDIA products like the 8600GTS and 8800GT, especially when it comes to price/performance ratio. Of course, nVIDIA still has the performance crown with the 8800 Ultra (which, btw, is scheduled to be replaced by the 9800GX2 at around the same time that ATi will launch its 3870 X2 beast), but no one in their right will buy an Ultra now. So ATi is not such a bad choice at all.


By ImSpartacus on 1/18/2008 11:48:08 AM , Rating: 2
I agree. They have an excellent midrange. I personally wouldn't even say the 8600gts is in the game. its 3850,3870, or 8800gt.


By PAPutzback on 1/18/2008 10:09:37 AM , Rating: 2
Whose chips are in the top selling console (Nintendo WII) - AMD/ATI.

Whose chips are in the second (XBOX 360) - AMD/ATI.

Now that relates to sales. Why you guys totally change the topic to CPU scaling and which graphics card (the 8800 GT or ATI 3870) is a better is beyond me. It must be the fan boy in you.

And I am a PC guy but it ticks me off how every article gets mutilated by you guys and reading the comments adds nothing to the discussion that wasn't said five minutes before in another unrelated topic. Eye smite, vitidor...




By Oregonian2 on 1/18/2008 2:27:50 PM , Rating: 2
And their profit margin on those contracts is probably a penny per device (maybe several -- exaggerating, but probably only a little). Doesn't seem to have made AMD/ATI wildly profitable.

The volume for those consoles is nice for a single contract, but it's still chicken feed in terms of total sales for AMD (let alone Intel).


By clnee55 on 1/21/2008 12:43:32 PM , Rating: 2
ANd they still lose money. Must be wrong business model

quote:
Whose chips are in the top selling console (Nintendo WII) - AMD/ATI.

Whose chips are in the second (XBOX 360) - AMD/ATI.


Routine & taken for granted
By crystal clear on 1/18/2008 7:29:23 AM , Rating: 2
AMD quarterly losses have come to be a routine & taken for granted subject matter.

People have come to accept AMD lives in debts & financial crisis.
So you see a lack lustre response instead of a highly debatiable subject matter & responnse.

People also have taken for granted 1st & 2nd Q 08 will also be of losses & lack lustre performances.

Soon AMD news will not make it to the headlines comapared to earlier periods.
Graded as not worth reading.

Its not only the financial news but also product news & performances,roadmaps,benchmarks etc.
People simply dont believe them anymore.

Its simply boring, lacks the interest & excitement it generated earlier.




RE: Routine & taken for granted
By Regs on 1/18/2008 10:58:09 AM , Rating: 1
I can agree. AMD has done nothing but promised more then deliver less. Yes that less is more than enough for many, but pricing isn't as liberal as AMD would like right now.


RE: Routine & taken for granted
By jconan on 1/18/2008 6:42:56 PM , Rating: 2
If AMD is down right now and prospects for the future are tight for Nvidia would it be possible for Nvidia to take over AMD? Then AMD would definitely be green instead of green and red as it is now. But then that wouldn't look good for Intel if Nvidia took over AMD.


AMD Reports Net Loss
By jeb328 on 1/18/2008 7:59:54 PM , Rating: 2
I am so tired of hearing about AMD has let me down BS. If I had Intel resources I better be kicking some tail. Give AMD some credit its not easy being the little guy. I hope for everyone sake that AMD can stay in the game. But if AMD does fold then what? I would love to here the responses to that question. Later tired of the BS




RE: AMD Reports Net Loss
By clnee55 on 1/21/2008 12:41:28 PM , Rating: 2
Poor you. Stop reading and do something else. Don't let AMD loss affect your health.

quote:
I am so tired of hearing about AMD has let me down BS. If I had Intel resources I better be kicking some tail. Give AMD some credit its not easy being the little guy. I hope for everyone sake that AMD can stay in the game. But if AMD does fold then what? I would love to here the responses to that question. Later tired of the BS


AMD
By ICE1966 on 1/20/2008 3:14:18 PM , Rating: 1
I laugh sometimes when I read the posts to topics such as this. What in the hell would the avreage person need a quad core cpu for? I like reading the post were the AMD and Intel fanboys bash each other, and whatever else comes to mind. The simple fact is that the AMD cpus are very viable choices for a computer, and if not for AMD, the Intel cpus that you have would have cost you double or more. Isee that there are quite a few former AMD users running Intel cpus now, why? Did the AMD cpu you had not run your programs? Did your former AMD cpu all of a sudden turn to crap? what we have here is nothing more than a contest to see who has the bigger phallus, thats all. Its nothing more that bragging rights to say "hey, my cpu over clocks by 50%" WHO GIVES A CRAP, I DON'T. I have an AMD system that runs exceptionally stable and is very fast, and there is not a thing that I throw at it that does not run well, so why go to Intel. There is no reason. maybe if I wanted to say that my system runs benchmarks better than anyone else I just might want to run an Intel cpu. For everything else, I'll take AMD.




RE: AMD
By cheetah2k on 1/21/2008 8:49:05 PM , Rating: 2
I note what you have said, however I owned an AMD FX-60 back in the day when AMD were on top, and getting 300-400mhz overclocks (had mine at 3Ghz for ages) wasnt an easy thing to do.

While there isnt much sense in having Quad core intel or AMD just yet, I have to admit with the prices these days, theres no reason why not to get one. After my Abit AN8-32x socket 939 mobo died last week, i picked up a very cheap Q6600 and new 780i XFX mobo, and I cant be happier with the stability.

In the end, its what you can get in terms of value for Biggest Bang for your Buck. Intel just rules all over that area right now, although you do pay thru the nose to get a good Sli motherboard these days (eg. Nvidia offerings).


Why all this redundant news
By mindless1 on 1/18/2008 1:41:00 AM , Rating: 2
Maybe it's a slow day, but I really don't come to a supposed "news" site to see the same things over and over.

Seriously, if Dailytech just continues to keep us updated about what we already knew adding a few details each time, there's little point.




On a positive note...
By cheetah2k on 1/21/2008 8:44:05 PM , Rating: 2
Those of us who sold their AMD shares when they started to slide like i did (at US$11 ea) and picked up more when they hit rock bottom at US$5.98), the share price bumped back to US$7 yesterday, so, I'm looking forward to when they climb back to US$10 for me to sell em again.

Until then, God help AMD. I'm still surprised that they havent been bought out by IBM or others yet, although 5.5B worth of debt isnt something to be taken lightly when jumping into that purchase...




Harsh...
By wonderhat7 on 1/17/08, Rating: -1
RE: Harsh...
By phaxmohdem on 1/17/2008 7:59:42 PM , Rating: 5
me either, which is why i removed the shift keys from my keyboard.


RE: Harsh...
By wonderhat7 on 1/17/2008 8:35:09 PM , Rating: 2
i considered doing that, but then i couldn't punctuate my sentences with !!, && and (my personal favourite) ?

anyone who can read that last character knows that I'm on a Sun Microsystems machine from the 1990s.


RE: Harsh...
By PAPutzback on 1/18/2008 11:00:16 AM , Rating: 2
LOL


RE: Harsh...
By johnsonx on 1/18/2008 12:45:04 PM , Rating: 2
LOL! from me too, since I can't rate you up any higher.


RE: Harsh...
By Pezman37 on 1/18/08, Rating: 0
"This is about the Internet.  Everything on the Internet is encrypted. This is not a BlackBerry-only issue. If they can't deal with the Internet, they should shut it off." -- RIM co-CEO Michael Lazaridis














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