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Improving dual-core compatibility for gaming

AMD has silently released a utility that fixes time stamp counter (TSC) issues with dual-core AMD processors such as the Athlon 64 X2 and Opteron. The AMD Dual-Core Optimizer utility is a driver that synchronizes the time stamp counter on both processor cores and improves game compatibility and performance. Time stamp counter issues occur in older games that are incompatible with multithreading and would run too fast or out of sync.

Issues also occur in newer games and applications that have compatibility issues with processor affinity like Need For Speed: Most Wanted. Affinity issues typically required users to bring up the task manager and set the processor affinity manually or performance would suffer dramatically.

The AMD Dual-Core Optimizer utility could possibly be the rumored “Reverse Hyper-Threading” patch that would improve single thread application and games performance by having dual-core processors show up as a single core processor in applications. AMD has declined to comment on "Reverse Hyper-Threading."

AMD’s Dual-Core Optimizer utility version 1.0 is available from AMD’s website. The utility release notes shows it as being released on March 22nd, 2006 which is strange as AMD has made no mention of the utility publicly.  The utility also installed on Core Duo and Opteron systems.

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WTF? It works on Intel's Core-Duo?!?
By pcmodem on 7/4/2006 3:10:21 AM , Rating: 2
The article author wrote:
"The utility also installed on Core Duo and Opteron systems.

WTF, AMD is now releasing updates for Intel?



Cheers,
PCM





RE: WTF? It works on Intel's Core-Duo?!?
By Furen on 7/4/2006 3:15:42 AM , Rating: 2
I havent heard of Core Duo (or the Pentium D, for that matter) having the problems mentioned so all it would mean is that the driver does not check for an AMD CPU before installing.


RE: WTF? It works on Intel's Core-Duo?!?
By Griswold on 7/4/2006 3:26:04 AM , Rating: 2
I have seen a P-D box running a game (WoW) at superspeed. It was solved with the /usepmtimer switch in Boot.ini. Intel (at least their netburst stuff) is not immune to the time stamp counter problem with windows and linux.


By Chadder007 on 7/4/2006 1:25:53 PM , Rating: 2
Sorta my situation here...if I have Hyperthreading turned on I have issues with my system.


RE: WTF? It works on Intel's Core-Duo?!?
By Tsuwamono on 7/4/2006 11:50:22 AM , Rating: 2
reverse hyperthreading is an AMD thing man...


RE: WTF? It works on Intel's Core-Duo?!?
By bobdelt on 7/4/2006 12:37:55 PM , Rating: 2
This isn't reverse hyperthreading... man.


RE: WTF? It works on Intel's Core-Duo?!?
By Tsuwamono on 7/4/2006 3:52:49 PM , Rating: 2
said right in the original post thatt he utility could be linked to reverse hyperthreading.


RE: WTF? It works on Intel's Core-Duo?!?
By Tsuwamono on 7/4/2006 3:53:57 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
The AMD Dual-Core Optimizer utility could possibly be the rumored “Reverse Hyper-Threading” patch that would improve single thread application and games performance by having dual-core processors show up as a single core processor in applications. AMD has declined to comment on "Reverse Hyper-Threading."


*cough*


RE: WTF? It works on Intel's Core-Duo?!?
By mertesn on 7/5/2006 3:56:30 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
reverse hyperthreading is an AMD thing man...


What pcmodem was getting at was hyperthreading is an Intel technology. AMD has created a utility to sort of create an abstraction layer for hyperthreading and dual-core processors because currently most games cannot take advantage of either.

I'm surprised Intel didn't beat AMD to the punch on this one. As soon as benchmarks came out that showed a disadvantage in framerates and/or playability issues, they should have released something similar.


By xdrol on 7/10/2006 7:51:36 AM , Rating: 2
HyperThreading is an AMD patent (or what, I don't care the legal mubojumbo). Just they never used it.

Intel and AMD have a cross-lisence agreement (each can use the other's tech after x months), so Intel has adopted it. (Netburst needed it badly BTW.)


By bobdelt on 7/5/2006 5:03:55 PM , Rating: 2
"Could" and "Is" are very different things!

This utility has been out for a while and fixes a bug. This isn't AMD's secret reverse-hyperthreading or every review site on the planet would be doing benches.


RE: WTF? It works on Intel's Core-Duo?!?
By TomaX925 on 7/4/2006 5:35:35 AM , Rating: 2
WHEN you put /usepmtimer into boot.ini THEN "time stamp counter" is used for timing. Since Intels 6xx series this counter always runs with the nominal clock frequency regardless of the power state = no problems.
If a Pentium D system has timer problems I bet it uses an Nforce 4 chipset ?
regards
TEK




RE: WTF? It works on Intel's Core-Duo?!?
By Griswold on 7/4/2006 6:59:41 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
WHEN you put /usepmtimer into boot.ini THEN "time stamp counter" is used for timing.


/usepmtimer forbids windows to use the hardware TSC.

Dont remember if that board had a nf4 chipset, I'd have to ask that guy.


RE: WTF? It works on Intel's Core-Duo?!?
By TomaX925 on 7/4/2006 8:18:56 AM , Rating: 2
Weel I'm not 100% sure, but please read this:
http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/system/CEC/mm-timer....
Do you have further documentation on the /usepmtimer?
Anyway, I had timing problems with a Pentium D that vanished when my NForce4 motherboard went up in smoke (no kidding!). I replaced it with an Intel D945 motherboard that uses a High precision Event Timer.
regards
Tomas


RE: WTF? It works on Intel's Core-Duo?!?
By Griswold on 7/4/2006 9:50:38 AM , Rating: 2
I had not much luck finding further documentation about the /usepmtimer switch at microsoft. The link you provided mentions the PM clock - could be the same and would support what I said: PM timer != TSC.

AMD dualcore's culprit is the TSC-drift and /usepmtimer is the first step to solve the issue - I actually think it has been the only reliable step until the release of this new patch/driver from AMD.

As for the chipset. Could very well be that the Intel Edition NF4 chipset works (too) much like it does on the AMD side with its STPCLK, P- and C-state signals and thus provokes the problem. Cant really comment on that.


RE: WTF? It works on Intel's Core-Duo?!?
By TomaX925 on 7/4/2006 10:31:09 AM , Rating: 2
Personally I think AMD or Nvidia should have informed us more openly a long time ago.
This new AMD patch actually puts in the /usepmtimer into the boot.ini if its not there already. Then it installs a driver to synchronize the TSC's. What would be the point
if the TSC's are disabled?
My information is that /usepmtimer were originally for Intel cpu's with fixed TSC's. It stops the use of a buggy RTC clock in the motherboard. How do I know it to be true when no official explanation exists? I don't.
Anyway, I believe the problem is solved for all AMD users out there, so we should all be happy.

Best regards
Tomas


RE: WTF? It works on Intel's Core-Duo?!?
By Griswold on 7/4/2006 10:59:32 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Personally I think AMD or Nvidia should have informed us more openly a long time ago.


AMD did comment on the issue a couple months ago and promised improved hardware TSC in the future. No clue if thats already in the current AM2 line or pops up in a later revision.



By TomaX925 on 7/4/2006 11:48:35 AM , Rating: 2
Quote:
AMD did comment on the issue a couple months ago and promised improved hardware TSC in the future.

Well maybe they did, but they did it in such a technical manner that many users are still in the dark.

Lets sum it up:
There is 5 (not 4 as I thought) timers in a PC?
The PIT, the RTC, the APIC, the PM = ACPI timer AND the TSC.
Then both the APIC the ACPI and the TSC's can be buggy.
AMD's new driver must then be for programs that access TSC's directly??
/usepmtimer forces the OS to NOT use the TSC's for housekeeping.

AAARRRGGG
When will the HPET clean up this mess?
best regards
Tomas


By PrinceGaz on 7/4/2006 12:10:13 PM , Rating: 2
Yes, I can confirm it adds /usepmtimer to the boot.ini if it is not already there, because I removed it from mine just before installing the utility to see if it would add it. Sure enough it was there again after installing.


Help a confused newbie.
By Boyo on 7/4/2006 1:51:47 PM , Rating: 2
Is this new optimizer different from the "Hotfix" download that uses the pmtimer in the boot.ini??? I have that downloaded along with a 1.3.2.0 driver. Should I get this download as well........drivers are a confusing thing. Try going to Creative and figure their mess out.




RE: Help a confused newbie.
By Wonga on 7/4/2006 2:10:28 PM , Rating: 2
LOL, if you think Creative's drivers are bad, just wait til you try their RMA process. After 20 days of hearing nothing, I ask the progress with replacing my faulty Zen, only to hear they "don't have any in stock". That strange, cos I could have sworn they made them! After I bit more complaining they offer to "upgrade" me to a Zen Sleek instead. Funny how you have to really kick up a fuss before anything at all gets done. I think that'll be the last time I go Creative. Even their customer feedback page gives you no response...


RE: Help a confused newbie.
By Ludvig on 7/5/2006 12:57:30 AM , Rating: 2
I think as well that this is the crucial question:
since it adds exactly the same line in the boot.ini than the previous MS Hotfix,what does it do that the patch didn't do already ?
I do not want to mess my registry AGAIN.Maybe it's simply an elegant an easy way to do what had to be done manually before...


RE: Help a confused newbie.
By Trisped on 7/5/2006 11:05:37 AM , Rating: 2
From TomaX925 above
quote:
This new AMD patch actually puts in the /usepmtimer into the boot.ini if its not there already. Then it installs a driver to synchronize the TSC's.

AMD's new driver must then be for programs that access TSC's directly??
/usepmtimer forces the OS to NOT use the TSC's for housekeeping.
Sounds reasonable, but I got the impression from the post that the main goal was to prevent program errors when threads execute faster then anticipated.


RE: Help a confused newbie.
By Boyo on 7/5/2006 11:10:28 AM , Rating: 2
Is anyone able to answer the question posted regarding the new AMD utility? Is this any different than the hotfix and is it needed if you have the hotfix?


RE: Help a confused newbie.
By Synastar on 7/5/2006 1:58:25 PM , Rating: 2
Other than adding the switch in the boot.ini, it also adds an executable that runs at startup via the Run key in the registry. I'm guessing that executable synchs up the TSC's at each boot.


Feels like BETA
By Wonga on 7/4/2006 1:30:10 PM , Rating: 2
Just in case anyone wanted to know, I tried this driver on my X2 system and it made the system freeze up solid on reboot. Another reboot later it was ok, until I tried to play a game, then the same thing happened again (mouse freezes and everything). I took the driver off and everything was fine.

Now, before anyone says I don't know what I'm doing, I'm competent enough to install a driver, so I'd say AMD has some tweaking to do before this is stable for everyone.

Of course, could be my ASRock 939Dual-SATA2 board, but things were fine until I put this on...




RE: Feels like BETA
By ElJefe69 on 7/4/2006 4:42:11 PM , Rating: 2
I had the same board, I am glad it isnt a hotfix!!

I locked up a day later, 3x, no blue, just froze in middle of doing nothing.

it's one of the most popular boards out too, so... amd sux.



RE: Feels like BETA
By Jkm3141 on 7/4/2006 9:13:12 PM , Rating: 2
I have the same motherboard and an Opteron 165 and it works fine for me. No more issues than I had before I Installed it, which was next to none even in games like NFS:MW


RE: Feels like BETA
By abhaxus on 7/6/2006 10:44:48 PM , Rating: 2
i also get lockups with the 939Dual... just random freezes, no blue screen. removed it a few minutes ago hopefully they go away.


RE: Feels like BETA
By johnford64 on 7/8/2006 2:39:26 PM , Rating: 1
You arent very bright. You have the Cheapest, low quality motherboard with the worst chipset around, and because it has issues you say that AMD is bad. Cray, Sun, HP and Dell cant all be wrong in this issue. Why dont you realise that your lack of money is not a judge on a billion dollar company!


RE: Feels like BETA
By abhaxus on 7/11/2006 3:00:57 PM , Rating: 2
how is the 1695 the worst chipset around? it's incredibly fast, stable, and the asrock board has proven to be an excellent overclocker despite not having voltage adjustments.

nice try troll.


Worked great for me...
By muchmore44 on 7/5/2006 6:26:42 PM , Rating: 2
Well, I installed it and my system DEFINITELY is more responsive. Before, I was not impressed with having a dual core cpu - now I am finally getting the speed I was expecting when I upgraded (and overclocked). My stats are:

ASUS A8N-SLI Premium
AMD Opteron 165 OC'd from 1.8 to 2.07 GHz (can't seem to get it any faster...)
2GB of PC-4000 (DDR500MHz) RAM (2x1GB)
XFX 7800GT x 2 (in SLI)
PC Power and Cooling Turbo-Cool® 510 SLI
Linksys Wireless LAN




RE: Worked great for me...
By Gnarr on 7/6/2006 6:11:45 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
AMD Opteron 165 OC'd from 1.8 to 2.07 GHz (can't seem to get it any faster...)


You remembered to lower the HTT(LDT) multi and to put a divider on the memory?


RE: Worked great for me...
By avatar36 on 7/6/2006 8:00:09 AM , Rating: 2
Ditto what Gnarr said. I got my 165 running at 2.44 on stock volts and air cooling.


RE: Worked great for me...
By muchmore44 on 7/6/2006 8:48:30 AM , Rating: 2
I think so, but I will try again. Thanks for the advice!


RE: Worked great for me...
By muchmore44 on 7/6/2006 11:32:12 AM , Rating: 2
I lowered the HT multiplier to 4, but did not divide the memory since it is rated at DDR500. I want to increase the HT speed to 250 (250x4=1000MHz) which is the same as not overclocked (200x5=1000MHz), but I can only get to 230.1 (230.1x4=920.4MHz)This also brings my memory to 460.2 MHz. I do not know why I cannot bring the HT speed to 250MHz... If I could, the HT would be running at it's stock speed (1000Mhz) and the RAM would be running at exactly 500MHz which it is rated for (4x250MHz and 2x250Mhz, respectively). The only change would be to the CPU bumping the speed to 2250Mhz (2.25 GHz). I just cannot get the HTT faster than 230.1 MHZ. If you have any ideas on how I can get this higher, I would appreciate it! You can also email me directly since this is kinda off the thread topic: muchmore76102@charter.net.


Will a Non-Gamer Benefit?
By hotlips69 on 7/6/2006 11:55:32 PM , Rating: 2
Will I get ANY speed benefit from this patch/update if I never play games on my PC...it's mainly used for multimedia/video capture/general usage?




RE: Will a Non-Gamer Benefit?
By Skypilota72 on 8/23/2006 2:02:49 PM , Rating: 2
"...Will I get ANY speed benefit from this patch/update if I never play games on my PC...it's mainly used for multimedia/video capture/general usage?..."

I second this request. I only use this machine (AMD 64 4400+ Dual Core) for Adobe Premiere Pro 2, After Effects, Encore and Audition.

I have installed the patch without problems but have really not noticed any speed increase or decrease. I would assume that this patch is only active for games and has no effect on other Multi-Thread applications. It would be nice to hear from others though to confirm my unprofessional opinions.

AMD64 X2 4400+ (939)
2 Gigs DDR400 PC3200
ECS RS480-M
Diamond Viper X1300
Canopus ACEDVio
Promise S150-M Sata Controller
1 Terrabyte Sata in 2 arrays (External)
Creative SB Audigy 2 ZS Platinum Pro
DL 16X Sony DVDRW +/- (X2)
WinXP Pro SP2 (not MCE


RE: Will a Non-Gamer Benefit?
By Skypilota72 on 8/23/2006 2:04:12 PM , Rating: 2
"...Will I get ANY speed benefit from this patch/update if I never play games on my PC...it's mainly used for multimedia/video capture/general usage?..."

I second this request. I only use this machine (AMD 64 4400+ Dual Core) for Adobe Premiere Pro 2, After Effects, Encore and Audition.

I have installed the patch without problems but have really not noticed any speed increase or decrease. I would assume that this patch is only active for games and has no effect on other Multi-Thread applications. It would be nice to hear from others though to confirm my unprofessional opinions.

AMD64 X2 4400+ (939)
2 Gigs DDR400 PC3200
ECS RS480-M
Diamond Viper X1300
Canopus ACEDVio
Promise S150-M Sata Controller
1 Terrabyte Sata in 2 arrays (External)
Creative SB Audigy 2 ZS Platinum Pro
DL 16X Sony DVDRW +/- (X2)
WinXP Pro SP2 (not MCE)


Unstable
By dashrendar on 7/5/2006 10:39:36 AM , Rating: 1
I'm not sure this utility is entirely stable. I installed it last night and my sister lost her virginity. I uninstalled it afterwards and she got her virginity back. I don't know about you guys, but this is unacceptable.




RE: Unstable
By OrSin on 7/5/2006 10:52:03 AM , Rating: 1
Please reinstall so i cna have fun with you sister. Then you can uninstall it again and things will be oh so right.


RE: Unstable
By dashrendar on 7/5/2006 11:12:21 AM , Rating: 1
Here is another defect in this utility--it attracts weirdos who start coming on to your hot young sisters. AMD has a lot of explaining to do.


RE: Unstable
By piroroadkill on 7/6/2006 8:54:22 AM , Rating: 2
What's more weird? The guy who finds a hot young girl attractive or the guy who just called his sister hot?

Anyway, how old? hurr


I'm liking it
By KenGoding on 7/4/2006 11:29:03 AM , Rating: 2
Arguments aside, it made a game that had been crashing work perfectly for me, so I'm on that team!




Exciting headline
By peternelson on 7/4/2006 12:19:11 PM , Rating: 2
"AMD Dual-Core Optimization Utility Available"

This headline got me very excited.

It looked like REVERSE HYPERTHREADING because it was a performance booster for dualcores.

Sadly it's not what I expected; maybe amend the title?




cpu temp
By visualestetica on 7/5/2006 9:40:44 AM , Rating: 2
i use this driver in my asrock 939 and opteron 165 @ 2,7 , the temp increase from 32C to 42 C, after delete the driver the temp return to 32C.




hope this is as good as it sounds.
By abhaxus on 7/4/06, Rating: -1
"Nowadays, security guys break the Mac every single day. Every single day, they come out with a total exploit, your machine can be taken over totally. I dare anybody to do that once a month on the Windows machine." -- Bill Gates

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