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Torrenza technology connects the industry says AMD

Today AMD announced that it plans to push its Torrenza technology into an open space, creating a unified socket-system that will be used by several top tier manufacturers. The Torrenza platform also allows companies to develop their own processor cores and other related processors, and use them in the main CPU socket. For example, a system can have two Torrenza-enabled CPU sockets, with one containing a real CPU while another socket containing a specialized application specific processor.

Several manufacturers including Dell, Cray, Fujitsu Siemens, IBM, Sun and HP have pledged their support for Torrenza, saying that AMD is doing just what the industry needs. In fact, IBM's chief technology and company fellow said "as a leader in the open movement, IBM applauds AMD for taking this step and always welcomes partners that take an open and collaborative approach to innovation."

DailyTech previously covered AMD's Torrenza technology, which the company talked about in June of this year. AMD mentioned during a previous conference that Torrenza would allow manufacturers to develop products for the x86 platform easier, without having to create proprietary platforms. The platform will also allow products that currently exist on the PCI Express platform to move over to HyperTransport and AMD's Direct Connect Architecture. According to AMD:

Through the Torrenza Initiative, the AMD64 computing platform is opened for industry-wide innovation, such as connecting non-AMD accelerators to AMD64 systems via HyperTransport technology links. Torrenza supports a range of integration innovations from interconnections leveraging HyperTransport, to co-processors accessing HyperTransport, to plug-in co-processors that directly harness the speed and communications delivered by HyperTransport.

Many companies appear to be pleased with the direction that AMD is taking. The company has been doing extremely well recently, gaining large design wins as well as creating important partnerships. Both AMD and Dell announced earlier this month that Dell has already begun making AMD-based desktops available.

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Future Motherboards?
By fk49 on 9/21/2006 2:58:02 PM , Rating: 2
I can imagine that a decade or so of this technology could lead to motherboards that are nothing more than I/O, BIOS, and 10 or so sockets.

In those sockets, you could put anything from CPU and GPU to a sound card or memory.

Wouldn't that be cool?




RE: Future Motherboards?
By Kuroyama on 9/21/2006 4:09:53 PM , Rating: 2
I'm guessing that on the GPU side this would only be used at the lower to mid end, because GDDR memory is faster than regular computer memory. Whether the socket is worth its cost at this end of the price spectrum is not so clear.


RE: Future Motherboards?
By Spivonious on 9/21/2006 4:52:03 PM , Rating: 2
But video cards, soundcards, etc. are far more than chips. What about memory requirements, external connectors, multi-chip solutions?

Also, who but the enthusiast is going to swap expansion chips? Most people I know are uncomfortable plugging in a PCI card.

It's a neat idea but I don't think it's going to catch on.


RE: Future Motherboards?
By jtesoro on 9/22/2006 10:05:41 AM , Rating: 2
While it seems that there is some benefit of having a second socket for CPU-like devices, I think that PCI/PCI-E slots already allow for general purpose hardware expansion. I'm not too sure myself if this technology will catch on.


Not good, AMD...
By Jeff7181 on 9/21/2006 10:58:02 PM , Rating: 2
In an era where people value low cost components, which are provided due to interchangeable parts, a proprietary (for all intents and purposes, it's proprietary) design such as this is nearly doomed from the start. The ONLY place I expect to see this is in high end workstations and servers, like an Opteron box from Sun.
AMD should take a lesson from IBM's failures due to proprietary designs back in the 90's.




RE: Not good, AMD...
By Heron Kusanagi on 9/22/2006 12:00:32 AM , Rating: 2
I do not think that this design is at all proprietary. It is open. Please do make the distinction clear.

I will think that such a platform can do good for all types of system. Sockets for physics processors, general processors or even low end video processors, PCI-e and Direct Connect for high end video cards, dedicated sound cards and other add ons.


A Dirty Little Secret to Consider
By Dfere on 9/22/2006 11:22:18 AM , Rating: 2
Is that a lot of companies make a lot of money nowadays on patents. Regardless of the discussion above, even if AMD makes this a truly open standard and it becomes such, my guess is that the money with an array of already designed patents based on hypertransport protocol is where AMD is betting the future.

This is what IBM has primarily evolved into (from a manufacturer to a patent("IP Firm") and consulting services firm). My other guess is that ATI acquisition plays into this somehow (Hypertransport based or improved HypT graphics processing and devices for such to license to manufacturers or other tech companies.) I wouldn't be surprised with Torrenza if AMD gets out of the manufacturing end of things in the long run, and instead designs them.

I think divesting of manufacturing assets is a bad focus for extreme long term strategy for a company, but most manyfacturers have reaped the rewards of outsourcing manufacturing to say, China currently. This means better profitability now, and better board salaries, now.

This makes a firm more flexible as wage standard variations get exploited (Mexico, China, Thailand, India, then most likely Africa), but ultimately these firms risk losing a competitive edge in basic manufacturing, which can detract from future ability to create patents.




RE: A Dirty Little Secret to Consider
By mino on 9/22/2006 3:40:23 PM , Rating: 2
Workers cost of cutting-edge FABs i completely unimportant.
Especially compared to an experience of skilled worker teams.
The amount of money better skilled workforce can save you in this industry usually far outweights their salaries.

Therefore I see no reason ousource CPU production.

And this stands almost forever - the farther in the future, the less the difference the price of a worker in China and EU will be.


In all regards
By Regs on 9/22/2006 8:51:44 AM , Rating: 2
This is a long-term strategy of course. AMD's main concern is FAB production as it seems to be holding them back with a lot of their innovative ideas. Like their next CPU socket and design. After all, they did hire a few well known guys who have extensive experience in FAB production so at least we know AMD is just not sitting back.




Just sell...
By JeffDM on 9/22/2006 1:37:56 PM , Rating: 2
An FPGA chip and a development kit for the chip. Seriously. If the thing can be reprogrammed in-socket then it might be a boon to hobby hardware developers and encourage more group-development in the hobbyist level, possibly reducing the barriers to entry. The cost of making PCI-eboards on a custom level is sometimes prohibitive to hobbyists, if it's an off the shelf chip that goes into an existing socket, that saves money.

Otherwise, I'm not certain what this can do. I need to see more information about the platform and the currently planned commercial products to see if it's something I should care about.




Just another proprietary bus
By DallasTexas on 9/21/06, Rating: -1
RE: Just another proprietary bus
By OrSin on 9/21/2006 12:39:41 PM , Rating: 2
True but how else can it be done. AMD is not charge lisencing for it. Free and to thier specs is the best we can hope for. The way it set up IBM could build cell processor that could work in the systems. I can see even GPU being used here (ATI merger might actually do something). Image in 20 years thier is no PS5 console but a ps5 chip you plug into main board has it boot its software and play console games. That could be sweet.


RE: Just another proprietary bus
By DallasTexas on 9/21/06, Rating: 0
RE: Just another proprietary bus
By othercents on 9/21/2006 12:59:44 PM , Rating: 2
The problem is IEEE is slow to respond. Plus I don't believe that IEEE has ever made a processor socket standard. This was originally driven by Intel and then when Intel made their socket proprietary AMD had to create their own. Now I think AMD is taking the right approach to opening it back up to the competition.

I would love to see the day that we can take a motherboard and put any processor and co-processor into it. Then 2 years later just upgrade the processor and co-processor without having to buy a new motherboard. I think overall we can get to a point where motherboards don't have to be replaced everytime there is a new processor.

other


RE: Just another proprietary bus
By Araemo on 9/22/2006 9:17:43 AM , Rating: 2
What is so good about the IEEE specifically? Why not let this come from ISO? Or any one of another set of standards bodies?

Just because it is tied to a for-profit corporation(which I believe the IEEE is, actually) doesn't make it bad.

AMD's hypertransport consortium is a nice setup. It isn't quite as open as the IEEE, since noone can kick AMD or the other founding members out, and it is slightly 'viral' like the GPL (Any member has to disclose and license all hypertransport-related patents to the entire consortium)... Hypertransport v. 1.0 was somewhat closed, AMD and a couple other companies did it in-house. The current version has been collaboratively developed by an open standards body open to anyone. It just has some restrictions about joining that Intel wouldn't like. ;)

Torrenza is just an extension of this, I believe. They may open it slightly further by allowing license-free usage by non-consortium members.. but that is just speculation on my part.

"Open" as in open source software(As in, freely modifiable) is not necessarily a good thing for hardware - you don't want anyone to be able to go in and change the spec(But keep the name)... If hardware isn't interoperable, what good is a spec?

Open as in specs and patents visible and given freely.. is always good for development. I don't think Torrenza/Hypertransport counts as proprietary anymore, since it is not individually privately owned or developed.


RE: Just another proprietary bus
By FightingChance on 9/21/2006 12:56:10 PM , Rating: 2
For Intel to use this would be admission that they are following instead of leading, and this is unacceptable in corporate terms. Just like the integrated memory controller on Athlon64's or the Intel BTX standard; both great things but neither company can readily submit themselves to using their direct competitor's ideas without losing face.


RE: Just another proprietary bus
By MrPickins on 9/21/2006 1:15:38 PM , Rating: 2
What about x64 and EM64T?


RE: Just another proprietary bus
By dgingeri on 9/21/2006 1:22:55 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
What about x64 and EM64T?


Intel had their hand forced on this one when the customers said they wanted it. They never would have if it weren't for that, just like cooler, lower clock speed, more efficient chips.


RE: Just another proprietary bus
By Drexial on 9/21/2006 2:32:45 PM , Rating: 2
that was a natural evolution. you cant say efficiency and advancing standards are following in footsteps.


RE: Just another proprietary bus
By dgingeri on 9/21/2006 1:21:09 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
For Intel to use this would be admission that they are following instead of leading, and this is unacceptable in corporate terms. Just like the integrated memory controller on Athlon64's or the Intel BTX standard; both great things but neither company can readily submit themselves to using their direct competitor's ideas without losing face.


AMD doesn't use BTX because it is far too difficult to arrange due to the integrated memory controller and the setup of the chipsets. I saw an article on that on Anandtech about a year ago. Personally, I don't like BTX for one more reason, the arrangement of the expansion cards and the necessity of the riser cards make it far too difficult to make a decent case with the expansion I would need. I have yet to see a BTX setup that can handle the 4 hard drives, 2 optical drives (DVD+/-RW and CD-RW/DVD), 2 video cards (sli) with doublewide coolers, the TV card, and the sound card I have. As soon as I see that, I may have to reconsider, but until then, I consider BTX a bad idea.


RE: Just another proprietary bus
By Araemo on 9/22/2006 9:23:14 AM , Rating: 2
BTX doesn't 'require' riser cards at all.

A full size BTX case is very similar to a full size ATX case(Just with the motherboard on the opposite side, and a lot of components on the motherboard in mandated positions and orientations).
It is only in the mini- and micro- BTX sizes that riser cards are used.