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ATI Radeon HD 5870 @ PC Perspective
DailyTech's roundup of hardware reviews from around the web for Wednesday

ATI Radeon HD 5870
@ PC Perspective
@ AnandTech
@ Legion Hardware
@ Hardware Canucks
@ Legit Reviews
@ Inside Hardware
@ TweakTown
@ Hot Hardware
@ Guru3D
@ The Tech Report
@ Driver Heaven
@ Tech Spot
@ Elite Bastards
@ OCC

Motherboards
Gigabyte GA-P55-UD6 Motherboard: P55 vs X58 @ Benchmark Reviews

Graphics
ASUS EAH4890 TOP HTDI/1GD5/A Radeon HD 4890 Rev. B Videocard @ PC Stats

Storage
Super Talent UltraDrive ME 32GB SSD RAID @ Ninjalane

Peripherals
OCZ Eclipse Gaming Mouse @ Hardware Secrets

Cases
NZXT Zero 2 Computer Case @ Tweaknews

Cooling
Evercool Transformer 4 @ Rbmods
Gelid Solutions Silent 12 Case Fan @ Tech-Xtreme

Consumer Electronics
Philips 42PFL7404 42in LCD TV @ Trusted Reviews

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Mixed Reviews.....literally
By chizow on 9/23/09, Rating: 0
RE: Mixed Reviews.....literally
By NA1NSXR on 9/23/2009 4:41:53 AM , Rating: 1
I didn't find the performance disappointing really. I don't think its right to compare it to dual GPU solutions at all.

What I did not like about the card is its physical footprint, which is more like a dual-GPU card, and the cooling solution which now exhausts heat into the case. For a single GPU solution I think these are huge setbacks.


RE: Mixed Reviews.....literally
By Totally on 9/23/2009 4:56:58 AM , Rating: 2
Try again.

1) it does not exhaust ANY air into the case, has a sealed inner chamber, which resembles an x2 cooler.

2) it's only 1/2in longer than the GTX285


RE: Mixed Reviews.....literally
By NA1NSXR on 9/24/2009 1:35:28 AM , Rating: 3
1 - "As a result, you get just over an inch and a half of ventilation for hot air. That’s not enough, so ATI also allows air to exhaust out the top of the board, into your chassis. Next to that top-vent is a pair of CrossFire connectors, used to sling as many as four cards together." -Toms

2 - The thing is single GPU and 11". Not all of us are running huge towers with neon lights spewing in all directions. Especially those of us particularly interested in single card, single GPU solutions.


RE: Mixed Reviews.....literally
By Totally on 9/24/2009 11:21:40 PM , Rating: 2
1 - So there's a vent right in there next to the pci brackets in but I concede.

2 - Well these aren't really intended to be stuffed in to a mini-tower, or mATX case either. And I have yet to see single complaint about how long gtx280 was for a single gpu solution.


RE: Mixed Reviews.....literally
By Visual on 9/23/2009 9:51:29 AM , Rating: 2
Well it does have double of all processing units really, so I would fully expect it to perform at the level of dual card configs. Memory bandwidth might be the tripping exception, or it just needs some more driver tuning.

Anyway, I think it is too expensive for what it is, and the short supply doesn't help this matter at all too. I doubt I will be buying it soon.


RE: Mixed Reviews.....literally
By FITCamaro on 9/23/2009 10:32:26 AM , Rating: 2
And it does compete with them. It beats them in some cases. Those its behind, its generally not far behind.

The card performs extremely well for the price. And even better, drives the price of cards like the 4890 down below the $200 range which is awesome.


RE: Mixed Reviews.....literally
By The0ne on 9/23/2009 3:06:31 PM , Rating: 2
4870 and 4890 have been sub $200 with deals for several months now. I picked up a 4870 1Gig for #130 2 months ago. Check the bargain sites.


RE: Mixed Reviews.....literally
By kattanna on 9/23/2009 11:07:05 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
and the cooling solution which now exhausts heat into the case.


those are INTAKE ports, not exhaust

http://www.guru3d.com/article/radeon-hd-5870-revie...

quote:
At the rear side of that rounded curve on the card we see two air intakes. The card is designed in such a manner that it will take in air from inside your PC and exhaust the heated air outside the PC.


RE: Mixed Reviews.....literally
By Totally on 9/23/2009 2:08:12 PM , Rating: 2
they aren't intake either. they are purely cosmetic, take a look for yourself, hardocp dissected the cooler it has an inner shroud.


RE: Mixed Reviews.....literally
By itzmec on 9/23/2009 4:51:20 PM , Rating: 2
curious, which cards dont exhaust heat into the case?


RE: Mixed Reviews.....literally
By NA1NSXR on 9/24/2009 1:47:06 AM , Rating: 2
My reference design 4890 exhausts almost all of its heat out the back. There is only a slight slit between the fan enclosure and the backplate where heat may wander back in but the airflow direction keeps practically all of it going out the back.


RE: Mixed Reviews.....literally
By karielash on 9/23/2009 6:47:15 AM , Rating: 5

"What is painfully clear however is the 5870 does *NOT* live up to the hype generated over the last few weeks from various "leaked" marketing slides and web outlets."

Ummm, it just about matches all the leaks dead on, in fact if you read the leaks then the reviews were nothing new. The only people who seem to have your 'painfull clarity' are silly little fanboi's.... Maybe you should go back and read the reviews again.

All in all it's a pretty impressive launch for ATI, they now have the fastest single GPU system and if the X2 scales as well as other XFire products do they will have the fastest dual GPU solution. NVidia 300 series needs to be good, and they need to sort out their multi-GPU scaling.


RE: Mixed Reviews.....literally
By JoshuaBuss on 9/23/2009 8:30:46 AM , Rating: 4
Agreed. ATI hasn't had this much power in a single GPU for a while.. I'm very impressed.


RE: Mixed Reviews.....literally
By Omega215D on 9/28/2009 12:13:22 PM , Rating: 2
not only that but the price is quite good for the performance it gives out. And it's no slouch in the energy efficiency department either for a new chip.


RE: Mixed Reviews.....literally
By Parhel on 9/23/2009 8:32:34 AM , Rating: 2
Even so, I'm a little surprised they didn't come out of the gate with a 2GB part. That said, this is without a doubt the card to get right now.


RE: Mixed Reviews.....literally
By FITCamaro on 9/23/2009 10:44:34 AM , Rating: 2
I'm sure there will be manufacturers who release a 2GB part.

A 64-bit operating system is becoming a requirement now for gaming with the memory sizes on GPUs now. We have a PC we built at work for a demo machine to run a virtual training environment. Its a Core i7 machine with 3GB of RAM and 2GB of graphics memory. So only 2GB of RAM is seen by the OS.


RE: Mixed Reviews.....literally
By kattanna on 9/23/2009 1:41:48 PM , Rating: 3
which brings up an interesting question, to me at least.

if you use a 32bit OS and plug in 2 GPU's that each have 2GB ram.. would the machine actually boot?


By Major HooHaa on 9/27/2009 11:55:57 AM , Rating: 2
Lol! Back in '99 we got a family P.C. with a 2GB hard drive.

"You will never fill the hard drive" said the salesman… We did, quite quickly. :-)


RE: Mixed Reviews.....literally
By chizow on 9/23/2009 8:44:50 AM , Rating: 1
You're kidding right? We must not be referring to the same leaked benchmarks, I'm referring to the ones that claimed 5870 wins in something like 23 of 27 benches and up to 50% improvement gains over a GTX 295 and 80% gains over a GTX 285. Which were you referring to?

http://www.overclock.net/hardware-news/577872-hard...

You don't have to be a "silly little fanboi" to see actual reviews fall well short of those lofty expectations. Not only is the 5870 *NOT* faster than the GTX 295, its often slower than the part it replaced, the 4870X2.....


RE: Mixed Reviews.....literally
By chizow on 9/23/09, Rating: 0
RE: Mixed Reviews.....literally
By Chocobollz on 9/23/2009 9:20:43 AM , Rating: 1
Is that you, Mr. Huang? Let me tell you, we're also don't have to be a silly little fanboi to think that you've been trolling over ATI threads just to say almost anything (even if you have to made it up) to discredit ATI. You're always an NVIDIA supporter and we know that, so I wouldn't care whatever you're saying.

I'm looking forward to see your ass getting kicked again, Mr. Huang.

Best regards


RE: Mixed Reviews.....literally
By chizow on 9/23/2009 9:32:27 AM , Rating: 1
Haha the rare ad hominem attack in the face of overwhelming evidence backing my point. All that is left is for you to invoke Godwin's law.....

But lets go over this again, since it seems many of you have a problem with what I've written:

Fact: those leaked benches claimed the 5870 was faster the 295.

Fact: actual reviews are showing the 5870 is slower than the GTX 295.

If you built up any expectations based upon those leaked benches, there would obviously be some degree of disappointment as a result.

And uh....if you're trying to insult me, you'd do better than call me Jensen Huang as if it were some pejorative. Love him or hate him, the man is clearly a genius, and a very rich one at that!


RE: Mixed Reviews.....literally
By Mitch101 on 9/23/2009 10:55:01 AM , Rating: 2
Someone should point out that the benchmarks are for DX10 & DX10.1 games not DirectX 11.

I found no game in 1920x1080 would be unplayable with either NVIDIA or ATI. Whether is 100fps vs 120fps is Moot. Both play smooth at that resolution.

However the NVIDIA GTX series cards cannot do Direct X 11 and purchasing the ATI 58xx card would get you DX11 support which is a touch of future proofing your purchase when DX11 comes out.


RE: Mixed Reviews.....literally
By Alareth on 9/23/2009 8:24:13 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Whether is 100fps vs 120fps is Moot.


You properly used moot instead of "mute".

My hero, I love you man.


RE: Mixed Reviews.....literally
By Chocobollz on 9/23/2009 1:51:16 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
the man is clearly a genius

Yeah I must admit he is a genius because he successfully tricked a lot of customers into buying a new (but actually an old) products. And he also a genius in getting his ass kicked by his competitors . Hmm... A truly genius man indeed... very very genius.... a superman maybe... Tell you what, who cares?

quote:
since it seems many of you have a problem

You're the one who don't get it because clearly we don't have any problem with those benchmarks, you're the one who talk too much about the 5870 being inferior to the 295. Those are only preliminary benchmarks so who cares? And you're comparing a dual gpu to single gpu, that makes it unfair.

Get over it dude, if you don't like it, fine, that's your choice, just stfu because you're clearly biased to nvidia.


RE: Mixed Reviews.....literally
By chizow on 9/23/2009 7:39:50 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
Yeah I must admit he is a genius because he successfully tricked a lot of customers into buying a new (but actually an old) products. And he also a genius in getting his ass kicked by his competitors . Hmm... A truly genius man indeed... very very genius.... a superman maybe... Tell you what, who cares?

Its obvious you care enough to try and make a very impersonal argument of facts into a personal attack based on uh....nothing.

quote:
You're the one who don't get it because clearly we don't have any problem with those benchmarks, you're the one who talk too much about the 5870 being inferior to the 295. Those are only preliminary benchmarks so who cares? And you're comparing a dual gpu to single gpu, that makes it unfair.

Get over it dude, if you don't like it, fine, that's your choice, just stfu because you're clearly biased to nvidia.

You might not have a problem with those benchmarks, I was just providing clear evidence backing my point when some other overzealous idiot questioned the veracity of my claim the 5870 didn't live up to the hype (and it doesn't).

As for talking too much about the 5870 being inferior to the 295? LMAO. That's the point of this news bit, its not just me saying it, its myriad reviews published TODAY saying the exact same thing. I guess all you can do to avoid this sad bit of news is cover your ears and scream "LALALALALALALALa!!!!"

As for getting over it because I'm clearly biased, heh, I wouldn't deny I prefer Nvidia parts, but that's only due to the fact their parts are consistently superior to what the competition is offering. Same for Intel. But my preferences certainly do NOT cloud my ability to objectively weigh and analyze undisputable facts, like benchmarks. Doesn't seem as if the same can be said for you, as you seem intent on trying to discredit and deny to obfuscate reality.


RE: Mixed Reviews.....literally
By Chocobollz on 9/24/2009 4:41:16 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
fact their parts are consistently superior

Yeah, just like the recent fuss about their G84/G86 chips being defective? Better luck next time.. Oh and that's a fact.

quote:
5870 didn't live up to the hype

What didn't live up? All I see is a perfectly made products, with a good price-to-performance ratio and a lower power draw, that alone would made it suffice for me to consider buying it.

quote:
I guess all you can do to avoid this sad bit of news is cover your ears and scream "LALALALALALALALa!!!!"

Sad news? I think you're the one who being afraid of ATI's kicking nvidia's butt again man. That's why you're trolling here saying anything you could to discredit ATI. You really don't get it why your posts mostly got downrated, do you? Its because you're obviously a little silly fanboi who try to do anything just to make ATI's new offering looks bad. Better luck next time man.


RE: Mixed Reviews.....literally
By chizow on 9/24/2009 8:34:05 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
Yeah, just like the recent fuss about their G84/G86 chips being defective? Better luck next time.. Oh and that's a fact.

Ya every company produces a turdball of a GPU once in awhile, ATI has just done so consistently since R300. If you're going to bring up defective chips, be sure to mention that 1 billion fiasco fireball of a chip AMD sold to Microsoft for their 360. There's a reason its a RED ring of death I guess. ;)

quote:
What didn't live up? All I see is a perfectly made products, with a good price-to-performance ratio and a lower power draw, that alone would made it suffice for me to consider buying it.

Of course that's all you see, but that doesn't change the fact the 5870 doesn't live up to the hype generated by (fabricated?) leaked benchmarks, nor does it come anywhere close to performing as expected given its design architecture of a nearly complete doubling of the 4890. Hell it doesn't even outperform the slower clocked 4870X2 which has to deal with multi-GPU scaling efficiencies.

quote:
Sad news? I think you're the one who being afraid of ATI's kicking nvidia's butt again man. That's why you're trolling here saying anything you could to discredit ATI. You really don't get it why your posts mostly got downrated, do you? Its because you're obviously a little silly fanboi who try to do anything just to make ATI's new offering looks bad. Better luck next time man.

LMAO again? ATI is about as scary as a one-legged man in an ass kicking contest....Nvidia has dominated the GPU market since G80, and that's a fact.

As for being downrated lmao....I'm not trying to win a popularity contest, sometime the truth hurts I guess. Its funny because the people who were most crushed by yesterday's sad news about the 5870 failing to meet expectations are the ones who are so vigorously defending it today...refusing to believe its failed to live up to the hype....

I bet you can't even bring yourself to admit the GTX 295 is still the faster part, can you? :D

Here's a nice summary of yesterday's events for you. Better get all your buddies to come downrate me some more LOL.

http://www.madshrimps.be/vbulletin/f22/amd-radeon-...


RE: Mixed Reviews.....literally
By Chocobollz on 9/24/2009 2:55:18 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I bet you can't even bring yourself to admit the GTX 295 is still the faster part, can you? :D

Who said I won't admit that the GTX 295 is the fastest gc on earth? The fact is, it is, so I must admit it. The problem is, I believe most people would choose the best bang for the buck over an overpriced 10% gc. That's why your arguments about GTX 295 being the a must buy over the 5870 is a moot point because it's more expensive, more power hungry and behind the 5870 in terms of DirectX support. Can you also admit that the 5870 is currently the better buy over the GTX 295? I would say you wouldn't, because you're clearly a fanboi.

quote:
If you're going to bring up defective chips, be sure to mention that 1 billion fiasco fireball of a chip AMD sold to Microsoft for their 360.

That's AMD not ATI, mind you. And that's not solely AMD's fault because Microsoft could also be blamed for the problem, because they're the one who should do the final QC. On the other hand, the problem with the G84/G86 parts from NVDIA is a problem which NVIDIA itself already know before launch, but they keep remain silent, would you say that's a good ethic? At least AMD or ATI, as far as I know, never have been trying to milk their customers like that.


RE: Mixed Reviews.....literally
By chizow on 9/25/2009 1:16:49 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
by Chocobollz:

Who said I won't admit that the GTX 295 is the fastest gc on earth? The fact is, it is, so I must admit it. The problem is, I believe most people would choose the best bang for the buck over an overpriced 10% gc. That's why your arguments about GTX 295 being the a must buy over the 5870 is a moot point because it's more expensive, more power hungry and behind the 5870 in terms of DirectX support. Can you also admit that the 5870 is currently the better buy over the GTX 295? I would say you wouldn't, because you're clearly a fanboi.


Amazing, its like you're voluntarily crawling into a burlap bag and trying to fight your way out. You realize you're just building up strawmen arguments and points no one is contesting right? If you read my original comment that apparently sparked all t3h hatemail and downrate outcry you'd see I've already said just that:

quote:
by chizow:

5870 does have quite a few new features that make it the better choice over last-gen parts like DX11 support, HDMI HD bitstream, angle-independent AF, and Supersample AA. Still, it wont' be competing with these old parts for long, it'll have to deal with Nvidia's next-gen offering GT300 over the long-term


I guess you were too busy charging head-on with your blinders on and only saw RED to catch that, amirite?

quote:
by Chocobollz:

That's AMD not ATI, mind you. And that's not solely AMD's fault because Microsoft could also be blamed for the problem, because they're the one who should do the final QC. On the other hand, the problem with the G84/G86 parts from NVDIA is a problem which NVIDIA itself already know before launch, but they keep remain silent, would you say that's a good ethic? At least AMD or ATI, as far as I know, never have been trying to milk their customers like that.

Actually, the 360 launched in late 2005, which was before AMD required ATI, so it is ATI, which is all irrelevant semantics anyways.

If you did research the problem at all, you'd know it has nothing to do with QC, it is the EXACT same problem and really no fault of either Nvidia or ATI as they were using *INDUSTRY STANDARD* soldering techniques which ultimately led to the problems under high temperatures or constant cool/heat cycles. If properly cooled, the problem does not exhibit itself under normal usage.

So again, before you run around pointing the finger about problems you don't fully understand, you might want to dig a little and do a bit of research first. If you want to blame someone, blame Al Gore or something for making these companies use lead-free solder heh.


RE: Mixed Reviews.....literally
By Chocobollz on 9/25/2009 2:30:18 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
were using *INDUSTRY STANDARD* soldering techniques

If it was industry standard soldering techniques then why would we don't see similar problems with other products from the other manufacturer's as well? It just blind luck I guess huh? If an *INDUSTRY STANDARD* soldering techniques is as bad as causing the parts to malfunction in such a little time, then why do they keep using it? And why keep silent?

quote:
only saw RED

Saw RED? Hah, you're joking right? What gc do you think I currently using? Guess what... its color is gree, and its a Geforce. I don't have to tell you who made it right? And you, have you ever once bought an ATI gc? Guess you're not? Then you're clearly a fanboi who just made anything up to discredit ATI. Me on the other hand, would choose anything that is best for me, and for now, Radeon 5870 is clearly the winner.

I think you're just run out of luck.


RE: Mixed Reviews.....literally
By chizow on 9/25/2009 3:29:45 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
If it was industry standard soldering techniques then why would we don't see similar problems with other products from the other manufacturer's as well? It just blind luck I guess huh? If an *INDUSTRY STANDARD* soldering techniques is as bad as causing the parts to malfunction in such a little time, then why do they keep using it? And why keep silent?

LOL, I already detailed the cause, symptoms and solution. I also hinted at some modifcations and precautions that prevent this problem, if you haven't noticed, many of these changes have been made on each revision of the XBox 360 subsequently through improved cooling, die/process shrinks, and changes to solder material.

Again, its not my responsibility to educate you on information that falls under the realm of public knowledge, but if you're going to comment and accuse you may want to do a bit more research or risk sounding completely ignorant, as you've done here (again).

If you're interested and want to learn more be my guest, but I'm not going to bother wasting any more time on it:
quote:
http://blog.seattlepi.com/digitaljoystick/archives...

Q: Let's go over some of the rumored reasons RROD. Could you tell how close each theory is?
Over heating CPU/GPU due to the lead free solder?
They don't overheat due to PB Free. They over heat due to too much power dissipated in too small of an area , w/o a sufficient thermal management design to take the heat away from the junction of the transistors on the chips, the packages themselves, and the mobo. And the over heating is on the GPU. When the CPU heatsink is applied right, it does not over heat.

Pb free solder is significant because its more brittle and has inconsistent melting points compared to Pb solder, so the constant heat and power cycles and PCB warping increase the likelihood the solder balls separate from the GPU package.

quote:
Saw RED? Hah, you're joking right? What gc do you think I currently using? Guess what... its color is gree, and its a Geforce. I don't have to tell you who made it right? And you, have you ever once bought an ATI gc? Guess you're not? Then you're clearly a fanboi who just made anything up to discredit ATI. Me on the other hand, would choose anything that is best for me, and for now, Radeon 5870 is clearly the winner.

I think you're just run out of luck.

Once again, what have I made up? Oh right, nothing. You keep dreaming up these scenarios and then when countered with fact, you crumble away again. As I've already stated, I prefer Nvidia parts for the simple fact they have consistently produced superior parts. Its really that simple. I have owned other ATI cards in the past but the reality of it is, since G80, there has been ZERO reason whatsoever to own an ATI part. Nvidia has consistently beaten them in performance and features with pricing justified by performance.

I guess I'm just "lucky" Nvidia has been kicking ATI's ass over the last few years?


RE: Mixed Reviews.....literally
By Chocobollz on 9/25/2009 10:59:50 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
since G80, there has been ZERO reason whatsoever

I'd say only an ignorant person would say something like that. I think my decision to call you a fanbot is really suits you afterall. Even I who prefer ATI, wouldn't think that ATI's the absolute winner, because there'll never be a single company who would do the right things forever. Not even Intel (remember the P4?) That's why I bought this Geforce 9400GT gc recently, because I found it to be a better suited for my need at the price range I aims. I need some GPGPU features to do some project and I found NVIDIA is better in that regard. And you, you will just say that NVIDIA is a better buy without thinking over the other things (like power consumption, newer DirectX support, etc.).

You think anything from AMD/ATI is craps? Then you should think it again because a lot of peoples here (and at some other forums) seems to disagree with you (gosh, how many times I have to repeat this over and over again).

When you lose, you should accept your defeat, that'll make you looks more manly and respected by others. That's how it would always be IRL. You'll gain nothing with being stubborn. I understand what you said and I'm sure many peoples here too but you should really know when to stop. I hope you would change your attitude and start doing what a really smart people would do, making buying decision based on its value and not its brand. If you prefer NVIDIA parts over ATI, then you should posting in NVIDIA's threads, not keep talking about how an ATI's new gc is bad. I think that's a bit unethical to many of us. And to think that you're just saying the same things again and again, it just made us to label you a "fanboi". Do you understand what I'm saying dude?

quote:
I guess I'm just "lucky" Nvidia has been kicking ATI's ass over the last few years?

Admit it dude, it's the other way around this time. Guess who made NVIDIA drops its price so much overnight like crazy and lose a lot of market share? And who trumps NVIDIA's flagship (and rebadged) gc? Who kicks NVIDIA in the butt when they said they will "open a can of whoop-ass"? (yeah that's just as stupid as it sounds but hey that's a fact)

Wish you many luck again dude.


RE: Mixed Reviews.....literally
By chizow on 9/25/09, Rating: 0
RE: Mixed Reviews.....literally
By Chocobollz on 9/24/2009 3:10:57 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
do NOT cloud my ability

So, your so called "ability" is to make some SIMPLE weaknesses like a BIG weaknesses? I'd say you're already blinded with your own preferences, because you're clearly doesn't have any idea as to why a lot of peoples here seems to disagree with you. Enough is enough man, we already know what you mean and we disagree with you, so why continue? Oh right, you're a fanboi, sorry I forgot that.


RE: Mixed Reviews.....literally
By chizow on 9/25/2009 1:30:26 AM , Rating: 2
Is this some kind of joke? I'm the one making a big weakness out of a simple weakness? LMAO. No, I made a few completely accurate statements based on the REVIEWS in this news bit and some fanboiiiiiiiiis (more i's give it more meaning!) apparently took issue with it. I simply backed my point with more evidence, and here we are. If you don't think its a big deal, stop posting, its that simple LOL.


RE: Mixed Reviews.....literally
By Chocobollz on 9/25/2009 2:55:03 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
ompletely accurate statements based on the REVIEWS in this news bit

Completely accurate statements based on a few preliminary benchmarks, even if it's accurate, its based on a premature conclusion, that makes it's a no problem for so many peoples in here and apparently, you're the only one who gets insane because of it. What is it chizow? Are you thinking to buy an ATI gc this time? If you're not, then why do you even care about it? Oh that's right, you don't care, you just want to rain on AMD's parade, because you're clearly an nvidia fanbot (I change the "i" to "t" to make it better suit you, a robot made to defend a company no matter what).

quote:
If you don't think its a big deal

LOL That was funny man. Yeah it is no big deal for me, that's why I said it was no problem for me if 5870 fell a little short of my expectations . You're the one who make a big fuss about AMD's being doomed because it can't beat the previous gen cards, it even made me thinking that you really want to buy it and then feel dissapointed because of its *premature* results.

quote:
and some fanboiiiiiiiiis

If you're calling me a fanboiiiiiiiiis, well I'm sorry I dissapoint you this time, Mr. Huang fanbot, because as I already said in another reply:

quote:
Saw RED? Hah, you're joking right? What gc do you think I currently using? Guess what... its color is green, and its a Geforce. I don't have to tell you who made it right? And you, have you ever once bought an ATI gc? Guess you're not? Then you're clearly a fanboi who just made anything up to discredit ATI. Me on the other hand, would choose anything that is best for me, and for now, Radeon 5870 is clearly the winner.


Wish you get a better luck next time, Mr. Huang fanbot, because you clearly desperately need it.


RE: Mixed Reviews.....literally
By chizow on 9/25/2009 3:34:35 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Completely accurate statements based on a few preliminary benchmarks, even if it's accurate,

Exactly, so why are you trying to make this insignificant problem bigger than it is, by your own words?

quote:
that's why I said it was no problem for me if 5870 fell a little short of my expectations

So go enjoy your 5870! LMAO. I'm not making a big deal of anything, I made a few accurate statements based on the reviews above, to which a few idiots like you questioned the veracity of my comments. And here we are! Except you've acknowledged my comments are in fact, accurate, so go away! LMAO.

quote:
If you're calling me a fanboiiiiiiiiis, well I'm sorry I dissapoint you this time, Mr. Huang fanbot, because as I already said in another reply:

And here we go again, some idiot fanbooiiiiiiiii who thinks spelling fanboiiiiii with an "i" and not a "y" makes it more insulting has gone back to ad hominem attacks based on nothing. GG. You lose at the intarweb.


RE: Mixed Reviews.....literally
By Chocobollz on 9/25/2009 10:23:33 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Exactly, so why are you trying to make this insignificant problem bigger than it is, by your own words?

I know I'm just feeding the troll here..

quote:
So go enjoy your 5870!

Sure I will enjoy it, and many others will do too. And for you, enjoy for waiting for the GT300 only for getting robbed again and again.

quote:
You lose at the intarweb.

Me? I'm not losing anything. And for you, I've seen you lose quite a lot over trolling on ATI's forums at AnandTech. If I were you, I would change my nickname to "cheesy" to clear up all that bad names, hahah.

With your obvious fanboinism, no wonder a lot of folks over the AT forums hates you so much for your "intelligent but made up" arguments. There's a lot of proof that you just attack AMD/ATI over their small/insignificant weaknesses. I'd say I agree what sourthings and cmdrdredd over the AT forums have said is really suits you:

taken from: http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.aspx?catid...

quote:


Sourthings :

It's not worth it with this fellow. Whenever the comparison of 4870/4870X2 vs GTX260/280 comes up. He (chizow) does something akin to a toddler placing their hands over their ears and go la-la-la-la-la.

The majority of reviews show the 4870 against the 260, both at stock clocks, in the majority of games, having the 4870 the victor, at 1920x1200 and down. If you OC the 260 it pulls ahead in some titles, if you OC the 4870, it is again the faster card. In all reviews where the 4870x2 is on any chipset but skulltrail vs the gtx 280, in almost every game the 4870x2 is faster than the gtx 280, and gtx280sli as well. The only exception really is Crysis.

In before FUD, and la-la-la-la.


quote:


cmdrdredd :

You know, you're hopeless (chizow). There's no reason for you to complete bash a product. You seem to ignore other facts and only see what you want and read what helps you prove to yourself that your decision was good.

It's the same as when I left. Some people never grow up. /end


You happy now? I found it's ironic, that your credibility is more like ATI (red=bad) than NVIDIA (green=good). Better luck next time, Mr. fanbot.


RE: Mixed Reviews.....literally
By chizow on 9/25/2009 12:10:23 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
I know I'm just feeding the troll here..

Yes its obvious you've been feeding yourself.

quote:
Sure I will enjoy it, and many others will do too.

Ya, 1 out of every 3, same as the last 3-4 years. Of course that 1 will yell and cry and bitch and moan and lie and make himself sound like 10/3 but you get the point.

quote:
Me? I'm not losing anything. And for you, I've seen you lose quite a lot over trolling on ATI's forums at AnandTech.

LOL really? So which idiot are/were you? Oh lemme guess, lurker. As for the quoted portions LMAO. Yes...good times. And once again, everything I wrote in that thread came to pass. 512MB on the 4870 crippling it, hot, loud, can't overclock for shit, the usual symptoms of an ATI card. Speaking of which, heard its more of the same this time with the 5870, big surprise! Not really. Too funny though, Sourthings ya...I think he was crying to a mod about how I was picking on him or something.

And Cmddreedd? Hahah that guy ended up getting a GTX 280 from a 4870 and thought it was the greatest thing since sliced bread and basically echoed everything he took issue with in that thread. Was hilarious really, all the ATI fanboys like you just ate him up so fast....didn't even realize he used to be one of em. Reminded me of that scene in Lost in Space where all the little shit eating spiders ate each if they were injured. I'm sure you can dig it up if you like seeing as you're so good with the search functions. :D

Its funny though, because people like you and people on AT forums are the very reason why AMD is in financial ruin. They simply won't pay for quality, even when AMD actually manages to produce a competitive part every once in a while. As a result, they simply can't charge more for their products because no one will actually buy it; they know if they just wait it out, AMD will drop prices. Even now I'm sure there's 50% of the ATI fans at AT bitching because the 5870 is $400 and not $300 or $200 LOL.


RE: Mixed Reviews.....literally
By Chocobollz on 9/26/2009 1:52:04 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
Ya, 1 out of every 3, same as the last 3-4 years. Of course that 1 will yell and cry and bitch and moan and lie and make himself sound like 10/3 but you get the point.

That would be the same as one of my friend who happens to be an nvidia fanboi, every time he buy an nvidia gc, that card will fail in like 3-6 months but he will keep talking about how nvidia gc is superior. And then he buy another nvidia gc just to get it failed again and again. So what's the point?

quote:
Hahah that guy ended up getting a GTX 280 from a 4870 and thought it was the greatest thing since sliced bread

Then you're just implied that I was true. If he's considering to switch to nvidia, then he's clearly NOT A FANBOI so I have reason to trust what he say. And i'd say that 2 guys are only a few examples, I'm sure there's many more. It just I don't have time to read your rants man. It's so tired and you really just take bad things about AMD/ATI and say it like they're inferior. Careful man, sometimes you'll shoot your own foot if you keep doing that (well I've seen so many times you're shooting your own foot and it seems you never learn despite your high intelligence LOL).

I guess you're like some old songs from Limp Bizkit:

Keep on trolling baby! Move in now move out, hands up now hands down LMAO


RE: Mixed Reviews.....literally
By chizow on 9/26/2009 3:49:17 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
That would be the same as one of my friend who happens to be an nvidia fanboi, every time he buy an nvidia gc, that card will fail in like 3-6 months but he will keep talking about how nvidia gc is superior. And then he buy another nvidia gc just to get it failed again and again. So what's the point?

Ya its obvious that went completely over your head, my comment was regarding the fact Nvidia sells 2 video cards for every 1 of ATI's. This is once again, verifiable fact backed by years of data using any metric you want. Sales data, check. Steam data, check. Analyst data, check. Retailer data, check. Financial statement revenue, check. But for some reason, the company that is clearly the trailer in all metrics would seem to be the majority on all of these idiot filled bbs boards. Why do you think that is?

quote:
Then you're just implied that I was true. If he's considering to switch to nvidia, then he's clearly NOT A FANBOI so I have reason to trust what he say. And i'd say that 2 guys are only a few examples, I'm sure there's many more. It just I don't have time to read your rants man.

LMAO. This is exactly my point, because that idiot insisted *I* was the fanboi similar to your idiotic rants here claiming *I* was the one spreading misinformation as you quoted. Then he went out and bought himself a GTX 280....and realized its *BETTER* than anything AMD has to offer which has been the case for YEARS just as I had been saying, for the very *SAME* reasons I detailed. Then he got ripped to shreds by ATI idiots, like you, that claimed *HE* was just some idiot Nvidia fanboi. HAHAHAH. Oh and he liked that GTX 280 so much, he went and bought himself a GTX 295 not too long after rofl.

So of the moral of the story is pretty obvious, stop posting ignorantly about things you clearly have no clue about.

Now the real question is, why do you feel the need to make all these "little nonsense issues" into more and more replies? Are you a glustton for punishment? Guess so. :D


RE: Mixed Reviews.....literally
By Chocobollz on 9/26/2009 6:18:51 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
Now the real question is, why do you feel the need to make all these "little nonsense issues" into more and more replies?

Because its fun and at least I'm learning English LOL.

quote:
LMAO. This is exactly my point, because that idiot insisted *I* was the fanboi similar to your idiotic rants here claiming *I* was the one spreading misinformation as you quoted.

LOL So you nvidia's fanbot is doing the exact same things like what you're saying in here:

quote:
Was hilarious really, all the ATI fanboys like you just ate him up so fast....didn't even realize he used to be one of em. Reminded me of that scene in Lost in Space where all the little shit eating spiders ate each if they were injured.


You both are a fanbot for the same company and yet you call him an idiot so I guess the ATI fanboys is better than the nvidia equivalent? (because they're aren't cannibals like the nvidia's fanbots does?) That's even more hilarious LOL.


RE: Mixed Reviews.....literally
By chizow on 9/26/2009 6:48:44 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Because its fun and at least I'm learning English LOL.

Yes clearly more fun than playing with your brand spankin new 5870 amirite? LMAO.

quote:
You both are a fanbot for the same company and yet you call him an idiot so I guess the ATI fanboys is better than the nvidia equivalent? (because they're aren't cannibals like the nvidia's fanbots does?) That's even more hilarious LOL.

LMAO. You are really that stupid, its sad really, an example YOU dredged up, being the troll you are, ends up backfiring on you. It shows a clear example of some uninformed idiot, like yourself, attacking me and things I said (all of which were valid and true concerns), only to later update his realm of experience and learn what I was saying was true. He was then torn to bits for saying as much by the very people he used to prop up with more of the same BS rheotoric you're spewing now LMAO.

Moral of the story, stupid people are stupid, and they think alike. The more I interact with people like you, the more I'm convinced of it.


RE: Mixed Reviews.....literally
By Chocobollz on 9/26/2009 11:13:32 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
some uninformed idiot,

An uninformed idiots is better than some idiot who pretend they know everything while in fact they're blinded with their own fanboinism. You really can't read about any good news about ATI do you? Can you show me a link where you say that ATI is a good company, even just for once? Because I can't seems to find it. If not, then you're clearly a fanboi and you know it's useless to talk to someone who's blinded. Everything we said will just means nothing and you'll simply resort to taking the same fact over and over again while for most peoples, that facts doesn't counts LOL.

If you want to make more fuss again, why don't you talk in this thread:

http://www.dailytech.com/ATI+Launches+Radeon+HD+58...

And see if you can even lift your tongue there LOL.

Good luck next time.


RE: Mixed Reviews.....literally
By chizow on 9/27/2009 1:16:28 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
An uninformed idiots is better than some idiot who pretend they know everything while in fact they're blinded with their own fanboinism.

Uh, no, clearly ignorance is a bad thing, I need only point to you as exhibit A. But again, where am I blinded by fanboism? You dredge up garbage, I refute it with facts and references. I think Nvidia consistently provides the superior product and nothing you've said has come close to refuting that opinion.

Sorry you and yours have trouble coming to grips with it, but all the nonsensical BS you've tried so far just reinforces my viewpoint that there's no compelling reason whatsoever for me or anyone in a similar situation to upgrade to a 5870.

As for that link, there's no need for me to waste more time there, I've already done enough of that here and its obvious all the fanbois just want to give each other reach arounds instead of critically evaluate an ATI product. More of the same. /yawn.


RE: Mixed Reviews.....literally
By Chocobollz on 9/26/2009 3:01:05 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Yes its obvious you've been feeding yourself.

*sigh* You know why I said that? Because you clearly only takes what you want without even seeing the bigger pictures. If your really that desperate to find the answer, here:

quote:
Completely accurate statements based on a few preliminary benchmarks, even if it's accurate, its based on a premature conclusion, that makes it's a no problem for so many peoples in here


You get it now? Well, if you want to believe on a premature conclusion, then you suggest you to do whatever you want now dude, because we all will die in 2012! <- premature conclusion based on an insignificant fact, the end of Mayan calendar. That's a fact, but would you trust it? Judging by your past behaviour, I'd say you will LOL.


RE: Mixed Reviews.....literally
By chizow on 9/26/2009 3:54:13 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
*sigh* You know why I said that?

Yes its quite obvious why I said that, you've once again managed to turn a non-issue (your words) into a bigger issue by simple multiplicity. Seriously, why couldn't you just include this in the last reply, idiot?

quote:
You get it now? Well, if you want to believe on a premature conclusion, then you suggest you to do whatever you want now dude, because we all will die in 2012! <- premature conclusion based on an insignificant fact, the end of Mayan calendar. That's a fact, but would you trust it? Judging by your past behaviour, I'd say you will LOL.

Premature? Oh we're supposed to wait a year for AMD to figure out what's wrong with their GPU before we come to a conclusion? ROFL. I saw they finally fixed Crysis scaling in their 9.8 driver for the 4870X2. I guess some call that progress!

As for insignificant fact lmao. I guess if you were trying to determine relative performance, benchmarks indicating just that would be irrelevant, haha. But given your view and of ATI parts in general, its quite obvious performance isn't an important metric for you.


RE: Mixed Reviews.....literally
By Chocobollz on 9/26/2009 5:57:58 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Premature? Oh we're supposed to wait a year for AMD to figure out what's wrong with their GPU before we come to a conclusion?

Wow.. you just take my words and over-exaggerate it to an extent that even its meaning has been changed LOL. You're really have a slick tongue, chizow. What I'm saying is, the card's just out yesterday for God sake LOL. You're saying it like if your baby just born yesterday and you're saying that s/he will be a criminal when s/he grow up so let's just put him/her in jail NOW LOL. You really don't know the meaning of a premature conclusion huh? Guess you're too smart to comprehend that word LOL.

quote:
I guess if you were trying to determine relative performance, benchmarks indicating just that would be irrelevant

Relative performance? If you really want to discuss that, then let's start on the fact that it achieve an average of 37.1% BETTER PERFORMANCE with 60% LESS power than an HD4870X2 (based on X-bit labs review). How about that? And now we have an OBVIOUS winner (and yet you can't see that one), don't we? And yet you just bash it without seeing the bigger picture. Oh, it maybe because everytime you find a lil weaknesses from a gc made by ATI, you would yell, "Huuraaayy!! I've got what I needed. This is more than enough to start bashing it on anywhere I want! Yahooo! Yahooohohohoho!" You really can't be helped, chizow. You're a clever man but oh well, I guess calculating the performance of a card is really that hard for you isn't it? Hahahahaha... what an idiot...


RE: Mixed Reviews.....literally
By chizow on 9/26/2009 6:55:39 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Wow.. you just take my words and over-exaggerate it to an extent that even its meaning has been changed LOL.

LMAO what? You just admitted you're learning English, so maybe look up the definition of the word? There's nothing premature about the conclusions drawn from the reviews above, in fact, the premature conclusions drawn from the leaked reviews are a large part of the reason the 5870's actual performance is a disappointment.

quote:
Relative performance?

Ah yes, once again to good old Xbit hahaha. Its amazing how Xbit went from relatively obscure to #1 on the ATI Fanboy rolodex overnight. So lets see, Xbit is now saying 5870 is nearly 40% faster than 4870X2....but how is that possible given this very same site claimed the 4870X2 was faster than the GTX 295? And every other site is saying the 4870X2 is faster than 5870 as well? Funny how that works. :)


RE: Mixed Reviews.....literally
By Chocobollz on 9/26/2009 10:58:17 AM , Rating: 2
I think it's useless to talk to you here, you will never change. Why don't you look at this articles and see what the others think about the 5870:

http://www.dailytech.com/ATI+Launches+Radeon+HD+58...

P.S. From what I've read, most of the guys who posts there wouldn't mind at all with the current 5870 performance, they even say that 5870 is excellent for its price! So I guess that means we leave you in the cold (well you and SerafinaEva to be exact ;-)


RE: Mixed Reviews.....literally
By chizow on 9/27/2009 1:20:56 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
think it's useless to talk to you here, you will never change. Why don't you look at this articles and see what the others think about the 5870:

Yes I'm sure they're all dying with anticipation about how cheap it will get before they finally open their tight wads and upgrade their trusty old X1900XT or 3870. Maybe once it falls below $125 lol.

Same as the idiots on AT, they'll say just about anything and lie, misinform, skew. But at the end of the day, they don't have any real interest in the product, they don't even buy it. They just like to BS about shit they have no clue about, like you.


RE: Mixed Reviews.....literally
By Chocobollz on 9/24/2009 3:38:59 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Fact: those leaked benches claimed the 5870 was faster the 295.

Fact: actual reviews are showing the 5870 is slower than the GTX 295.

Duh.. did you actually trust those "leaked" benchmarks? From the name of it, any sane peoples wouldn't just trust them, because it's a "leaked" means that it is most likely a prototype or an advertisement. They only benchmarks which can be trusted is if it using the retail version of the cards. And it looks like you're the only one who got dissapointed. Did you just switch to the red team this time?


RE: Mixed Reviews.....literally
By chizow on 9/25/2009 1:27:18 AM , Rating: 2
Rofl, again, I'm not disappointed at all, it just further validates my decision to wait for GT300 before making any buying decision.

As for the reactions, again, its not my disappointment, its the sentiment echoed by numerous review sites linked above in the original news bit and by less zealous ATI fans across the various forums of the world.

Like them, I'm absolutely shocked the 5870 scales so poorly compared to 4870X2 or even the 4890 in CF given its a nearly exact doubling in every aspect compared to the 4890, except for bandwidth. Once again, prior to the actual reviews, the leaked bench performance seemed absolutely attainable given the specs and expectations of being a complete doubling of the 4890.

Let me guess, you're thrilled the 5870 only scales between 30-50% faster than the 4890 given it doubles it in just about every aspect?


RE: Mixed Reviews.....literally
By Chocobollz on 9/25/2009 3:45:20 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Rofl, again, I'm not disappointed at all, it just further validates my decision to wait for GT300 before making any buying decision.

Waiting for something that's most likely will be so big and power hungry and cost you arm and legs? And even if it does comes out, its chance is 50-50 that it would beat the 5870 in terms of tech and power consumption. If you're a gambler then it wouldn't stop but if you want something that surely will give you the best value right now, you would choose 5870. If you want the GT300 so bad, then its fine because we all know you wouldn't support ATI no matter what, even if ATI is the only company who produce gc. Most people would just choose what the best for them, and at this time, it's the clear winner.

quote:
Once again, prior to the actual reviews, the leaked bench performance seemed absolutely attainable given the specs and expectations of being a complete doubling of the 4890.

Peoples don't buy a products based on the result of a leaked benchmarks. Why? Because the products isn't even in the store yet (gosh.. that's so obvious and yet you don't know that).

quote:
Like them, I'm absolutely shocked the 5870 scales so poorly compared to 4870X2

Why don't you just admit it that you're not shocked, I know you're very happy to hear that Mr. fanbot, because it just gives you more reasons to troll in here to discredit ATI no matter what. All you're talking is just it being fell short of epectations, if you're really not biased, why don't you talk about its price, or its lower power consumption, or its improved architecture and support for DirectX 11 (which is good no matter what you say about it)? And for its only being 30-50% faster than a 4890, at least it got better features, and at least it's a new products, not like nvidia who just made the SSDD and sell it to their customers saying that it's a brand new tech at a price premium.


RE: Mixed Reviews.....literally
By chizow on 9/25/2009 4:04:20 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
Waiting for something that's most likely will be so big and power hungry and cost you arm and legs? And even if it does comes out, its chance is 50-50 that it would beat the 5870 in terms of tech and power consumption. If you're a gambler then it wouldn't stop but if you want something that surely will give you the best value right now, you would choose 5870. If you want the GT300 so bad, then its fine because we all know you wouldn't support ATI no matter what, even if ATI is the only company who produce gc. Most people would just choose what the best for them, and at this time, it's the clear winner.

Uh, no, because if its price doesn't justify the price tag I simply won't buy it. LOL.

As for 50-50 and power hungry etc. again, why talk out of your ass? Fact: Nvidia parts have consistently drawn less power than their ATI performance counterparts on the same process. Compare 8800GTS to 2900XT, 8800GT to 3870, 260 to 4870, 285 to 4890, 295 to 4870X2....Nvidia parts are faster, draw less power and run cooler due to better coolers. All fanboiiiiism aside, you talk way too much shit for someone who knows so little.

Also, why would I rush out and buy a 5870 today instead of waiting for GT300 when its slower than what I already have? It offers no immediate benefit to me right now except for maybe HDMI bitstream, but other than that, there's no DX11 games, its AF is negligible, its SSAA is broken and oh ya, its SLOWER than what I'm already running (GTX 280 SLI). Its the same reasons I didn't jump up and buy 2x275 or a 295 when they came out just because they were newer.....

quote:
Peoples don't buy a products based on the result of a leaked benchmarks. Why? Because the products isn't even in the store yet (gosh.. that's so obvious and yet you don't know that).

LOL wut? Those leaked benches don't just sprout from the ground based on nothing, they were leaked from a previously reliable source confirmed to have access to the hardware and seemed plausible based on leaked specs that were confirmed accurate at least 1 month before launch. That's like saying "investors and portfolio managers don't make decisions based on quarterly reports and analyst forecasts."

quote:
Why don't you just admit it that you're not shocked

No really, I am absolutely shocked, and if I were actually anticipating the 5870 and planning to buy it, I would've been absolutely gutted. If the GTX 380 is only 30% faster than a single GTX 280 and slower than GTX 280 SLI and its a complete doubling of the 280 in specs and transistors, as its expected to be...you're damn right I'll be shocked and disappointed too heh. But at least I'll be able to admit it. ;-)


RE: Mixed Reviews.....literally
By Chocobollz on 9/25/2009 11:37:13 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
you talk way too much shit for someone who knows so little.

You're clearly smarter than me but your fanboinism has blinded you so much ;-)

quote:
Fact: Nvidia parts have consistently drawn less power than their ATI performance counterparts on the same process. Compare 8800GTS to 2900XT, 8800GT to 3870, 260 to 4870, 285 to 4890, 295 to 4870X2....Nvidia parts are faster, draw less power and run cooler due to better coolers.

Uhh.. that's why I said it to have 50-50% chances because you could only make assumptions based on previous cards, not the GT300 itself..

quote:
Also, why would I rush out and buy a 5870 today instead of waiting for GT300 when its slower than what I already have?

So the 5870 only aimed to those who already have an NVIDIA GTX 280 (and above)? It's not isn't it? So stop talking about it loses to GTX 295 because it doesn't matter, it's a good buy whatever you're saying.

quote:
It offers no immediate benefit

For you maybe, but not for those who are looking for a new gc at the 350+ price points, they surely will find that 5870 is an interesting piece of tech, especially with Windows 7 around and dozens of game dev already planned to make a DX11 games.

quote:
and if I were actually anticipating the 5870 and planning to buy it, I would've been absolutely gutted.

I think that's just you then because I can't see any other guy here who's gutted like you, not even myself. I'm pretty happy with what the 5870 offers.

quote:
its a complete doubling of the 280 in specs and transistors, as its expected to be

I think you already know that 2x the transistors doesn't always means 2x the performance so why the fuss? Anything over 10% is significant already and hey, at least they're not charging US$ 600+ for it (like some greedy green company does) so you should be happy with that. I'm sure many peoples would be drooling with its current price LOL.


RE: Mixed Reviews.....literally
By chizow on 9/25/2009 12:46:49 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
You're clearly smarter than me but your fanboinism has blinded you so much ;-)

Yes I know, but in your defense you haven't quite gone there....yet.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilKntXQbmV4#t=0m32s

quote:
Uhh.. that's why I said it to have 50-50% chances because you could only make assumptions based on previous cards, not the GT300 itself..

LMAO, ya if you meant 100-0% using historical references sure. I'll give ya the benefit of the doubt though and say 99-1%. Here's a hint, AMD already overclocks the piss out of their parts to remain competitive, which is why their overclockability sucks, run hot, and draw a lot of power. Its basic principles of semiconductor behavior. When you you're begging that little ATITool slider to go up more than 1 measly notch on your 5870 and it won't, you'll know what I'm talking about.

quote:
So the 5870 only aimed to those who already have an NVIDIA GTX 280 (and above)? It's not isn't it? So stop talking about it loses to GTX 295 because it doesn't matter, it's a good buy whatever you're saying.

No, you made the assertion I should go out today and buy a 5870. I correctly stated there's no compelling reason for anyone who owns a last-gen part to rush and buy one, especially in my case since my last-gen parts are faster.

quote:
For you maybe, but not for those who are looking for a new gc at the 350+ price points, they surely will find that 5870 is an interesting piece of tech, especially with Windows 7 around and dozens of game dev already planned to make a DX11 games.

Rofl, we've already covered this, my first post in this thread remember? But you said *I* should be happy to go and get a 5870....I'm saying not so much and giving the reasons why lol. I don't give a shit what you do with your money, seriously go play with your 5870 and be happy haha.

quote:
I think that's just you then because I can't see any other guy here who's gutted like you, not even myself. I'm pretty happy with what the 5870 offers.

Actually looks like there were a few others who started down that path, but then the ratedowns and haterade started raining down and they probably figured, fuck it, not worth dealing with these idiots to get my point across. I just find it funny though so here I am! :)

quote:
I think you already know that 2x the transistors doesn't always means 2x the performance so why the fuss? Anything over 10% is significant already and hey, at least they're not charging US$ 600+ for it (like some greedy green company does) so you should be happy with that. I'm sure many peoples would be drooling with its current price LOL.

No it doesn't always mean 2x the performance, but I certainly expected it to be more than 1.3x the performance. 1.3x is garbage, 1.3 is poor scaling in CF or SLI. I can't see how you're trying to downplay that, it doesn't even outperform a slower clocked last-gen X2 part!

As for not charging $600....again...they're not charging $600 because no one would buy it. There WAS a time ATI charged $600+ for their cards (X850XTPE, X1950XTX etc etc) but again, their fans are so trained now to just wait for prices to drop and actually get angry at them when they try to raise prices. Look at how damaging the 48x0 release was....$200 and $300, now they try to charge $300 and $400 and people are furious! Amazing. And you wonder why they're bleeding cash and haven't turned a profit in 11 quarters.


RE: Mixed Reviews.....literally
By Chocobollz on 9/26/2009 2:47:08 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
Actually looks like there were a few others who started down that path, but then the ratedowns and haterade started raining down and they probably figured, fuck it, not worth dealing with these idiots to get my point across. I just find it funny though so here I am! :)

I'd say that's a good decision dude because it is obvious that most of the guys here are also thinking that it's not worth to make arguments with the idiots who say that the 5870 is not worth buying. As you can see, I'm the one who replied to most of your posts and I know that'll make me looks idiot too because I obviously is feeding a fanbot here but oh well, I guess someone have to do it LOL.

Oh and also, the guys you said taking down the path are obviously only a mere fraction of the other side, they're the minorities. And hey, why make it such a big deal? If you don't like it, don't buy it. It's always that simple right? Just like you said. So why the fuss? LOL

Err.. about the ratedowns.. Had you ever thinked that it's maybe because they're (and you) are mostly some nvidia fanbois trying to troll on an ATI threads? I'd say that's not funny, that's more like dumb moves, really. Don't they have any better job than trolling? Now that's funny. If you want to be a hero for nvidia, why don't you started to just posting exclusively only on nvidia's threads? Talking about how nvidia's good, not the other way around, talking about how craps their competitors are. Then everyone will start to have some respect for you. What you think? It's a good idea right?

quote:
LMAO, ya if you meant 100-0% using historical references sure. I'll give ya the benefit of the doubt though and say 99-1%. Here's a hint, AMD already overclocks the piss out of their parts to remain competitive, which is why their overclockability sucks, run hot, and draw a lot of power. Its basic principles of semiconductor behavior. When you you're begging that little ATITool slider to go up more than 1 measly notch on your 5870 and it won't, you'll know what I'm talking about.

Now, you already said that NVIDIA and ATI gcs were both manufactured by TSMC. Then by your own definition, that will means that the GT300 will also suffer from the same weaknesses. And to mention that its die area is roughly 30% larger than the RV870 (334 vs. 452) at the same process tech, I'd say 99-1% that it'll be a lot more power hungry with a lot less yields per wafer. That makes me thinking, why are nvidia keeps their large monolithic die when the other have started to move to a more modular design. Were they that ignorant?

And you must've also already know that the 5870 could achive a thrilling 14.7W, 25.8W, and 107W idle, peak 2D, and peak 3D power draw respectively (source: http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/rad... ). That's quite a feat and I'm sure 99% that the GT300 wouldn't even close to it (judging from the X-bit labs articles).

quote:
There WAS a time ATI charged $600+ for their cards (X850XTPE, X1950XTX etc etc)

At least they try to innovate and improving their architecture and not rebadging the same products over and over again until everyone got a hole in their pockets just to find out that they have been robbed LOL.

quote:
Look at how damaging the 48x0 release was....$200 and $300, now they try to charge $300 and $400 and people are furious

What damaging? I don't see their prices as ridiculous. Even I myself was once really tempted to buy one (but I don't, and I choose an NVIDIA gc as you already know). A lot of my friends were also immediately bought it when it becomes available. So what are you talking dude?

And I don't see anyone here who are furious except you dude (your first post, the one who quickly spotted a lil insignificant weaknesses of the new ATI's products). And to think that you are furious while not even considering to buy it, it makes us wandering, why are you even here? What are your motives? (I know its obvious judging your past behaviour but hey, it's better to ask the person directly ;-)


RE: Mixed Reviews.....literally
By chizow on 9/26/2009 4:37:50 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
I'd say that's a good decision dude because it is obvious that most of the guys here are also thinking that it's not worth to make arguments with the idiots who say that the 5870 is not worth buying. As you can see, I'm the one who replied to most of your posts and I know that'll make me looks idiot too because I obviously is feeding a fanbot here but oh well, I guess someone have to do it LOL.

Ya I'm guessing the original few decided it wasn't worth it or realized they didn't have any replies to the points I made. The difference is, they weren't so determined to bust out the heavy duty troll and try and dig up more garbage, like you've done consistently.

And don't worry about looking like an idiot, I don't think anyone else is reading the thread except for you and I, and I'm already convinced you're an idiot. ;-)

quote:
Oh and also, the guys you said taking down the path are obviously only a mere fraction of the other side, they're the minorities. And hey, why make it such a big deal? If you don't like it, don't buy it. It's always that simple right? Just like you said. So why the fuss? LOL

Ya its always a mere fraction pro-Nvidia when it comes to GPU Warz, the ATI/AMD camp is always going to be the more vocal group, the only problem is that's a completely inaccurate reflection of reality, which is why we can assume Nvidia proponents are going to be the silent majority. Except for people like me, and here I am! :D

quote:
Err.. about the ratedowns.. Had you ever thinked that it's maybe because they're (and you) are mostly some nvidia fanbois trying to troll on an ATI threads? I'd say that's not funny, that's more like dumb moves, really. Don't they have any better job than trolling? Now that's funny. If you want to be a hero for nvidia, why don't you started to just posting exclusively only on nvidia's threads? Talking about how nvidia's good, not the other way around, talking about how craps their competitors are. Then everyone will start to have some respect for you. What you think? It's a good idea right?

LMAO, no it just shows there are people so biased and so defensive that ANY negative connotation is seen as an attack even when its not. Once again, look at my original post, all based on the reviews linked in the original news piece. I guess if I just blew sunshine, BS and misinformation about the 5870 and was trying to win a popularity contest, I could get a 5 rating too? LOL.

quote:
Now, you already said that NVIDIA and ATI gcs were both manufactured by TSMC. Then by your own definition, that will means that the GT300 will also suffer from the same weaknesses. And to mention that its die area is roughly 30% larger than the RV870 (334 vs. 452) at the same process tech, I'd say 99-1% that it'll be a lot more power hungry with a lot less yields per wafer. That makes me thinking, why are nvidia keeps their large monolithic die when the other have started to move to a more modular design. Were they that ignorant?

I've already covered this, its basic behavior of semiconductors. Nvidia has chosen an approach of a larger die with more transistors, but runs them at lower clock frequencies (with higher shader clock). AMD has chosen (or forced after R600) to go with a smaller die and fewer transistors, but to make up that difference in their performance, they clock their chips higher. The end theoretical outputs are going to be similar, its just 2 approaches to meet the same target, like a simple math equation.

The problem for ATI however, is that clockspeed and power consumption are typically non-linear, so the higher you clock your chip, the more power it consumes and the more heat it dissipates. This is a simple, fundamental overclocking concept also. Adding more transistors does the same, but at a lower rate, but increases costs. See the difference now?

And I already know where the next argument in the handbook goes, dont' even bother unless you're willing to put up numbers. I can already tell you your first mistake will be not factoring ASP for each GPU cut from a homogenous wafer.

quote:
At least they try to innovate and improving their architecture and not rebadging the same products over and over again until everyone got a hole in their pockets just to find out that they have been robbed LOL.

Innovate? No not really, they were just benefitting from the market conditions they helped to create with Nvidia back when their parts could still command such high prices. That ability went away once they failed to remain competitive with Nvidia on a single-die basis with R600 and went away for good once they went to the "little die" strategy and badly underpriced their RV770 parts, deciding to go with an X2 approach to the high-end. No one would pay more than $600-700 for a high-end ATI part even if it has 2 chips, so obviously the single chip version will have to be cheaper, and roughly half of that price. AMD will be pushing that relationship this round, but I have a feeling 5870 will drop a bit once the X2 launches (~$600).

quote:
And you must've also already know that the 5870 could achive a thrilling 14.7W, 25.8W, and 107W idle, peak 2D, and peak 3D power draw respectively (source: http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/rad... ). That's quite a feat and I'm sure 99% that the GT300 wouldn't even close to it (judging from the X-bit labs articles).

Wow, they learned how to reduce power to their VRAM and not crash the desktop, finally. Sorry its hard for me to get excited about those idle vitals when I've been enjoying them for over a year on my GTX 280s. Also if you dared venture away from that ATI refuge Xbit and their 3DMark01 results at 640x480, you'd see that the load temps, while impressive for a doubled part, aren't anything special compared to last-gen high-end parts. Makes me wonder actually if the 5870's limited power draw is what's holding up its performance since it physically can't draw more than 225W hmmmm.

quote:
What damaging? I don't see their prices as ridiculous. Even I myself was once really tempted to buy one (but I don't, and I choose an NVIDIA gc as you already know). A lot of my friends were also immediately bought it when it becomes available. So what are you talking dude?

And I don't see anyone here who are furious except you dude (your first post, the one who quickly spotted a lil insignificant weaknesses of the new ATI's products). And to think that you are furious while not even considering to buy it, it makes us wandering, why are you even here? What are your motives? (I know its obvious judging your past behaviour but hey, it's better to ask the person directly ;-)

Heheh you don't seem to understand simple pricing economies. Its very, very easy to reduce the price of something, but once done and expectations are set, its damn near impossible to then raise prices again for a similar price and performance standpoint. We're seeing this exact paradigm in action right now with the 5870 launch.

That's why I never understand all these idiots from both camps cheering the other on just so they can save a Jefferson or two, not realizing they're simply driving their favorite company to the grave. All in the name of competition right? LOL, except that competition goes away after years of the same thing and you haven't posted a profit in almost 3 years.....


RE: Mixed Reviews.....literally
By Chocobollz on 9/26/2009 3:31:33 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Here's a hint, AMD already overclocks the piss out of their parts to remain competitive, which is why their overclockability sucks, run hot, and draw a lot of power.

Wow.. just wow.. where did you made that up dude? In your basement? I just said you're smart and you're already getting your head bigger LOL. You want a pure fact and not a made up facts? Read here (again LOL):

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/rad...

Quotes from the articles:

quote:
So, the power draw is not higher than 107 watts in 3DMark06 which is amazing for a graphics card whose GPU consists of over 2 billion transistors. Nvidia’s G200b can’t even dream of such power efficiency.


quote:
On the other hand, FurMark is far more intensive than real-life games, so the practical power draw is going to be closer to the first number than to the second . The Radeon HD 5870 is also extremely economical in 2D mode, setting a new record for its class.

The cooling system did well despite our apprehensions.


Yeah the overclockability maybe suck ass but its not like nvdia's gc also always do good in overclocking. My 9400 GT could only clocked like 10% above its original despite its being manufactured at 55nm. While my previous Radeon 9550 could be clocked at max 710 MHz core (!), up from the default 250 MHz, using a Zalman VF700-AlCu HSF. That could even beat the #1 record of a national overclocking competitions here in Bali dude. Sure, if you buy a very expensive gc, you would expect it to overclocks well but more often than not, the best overclocker's cards will be in mainstream gc. You surely have known this fact right?

Better luck next time with your basement, half-baked made up facts, chizow. LOL


RE: Mixed Reviews.....literally
By chizow on 9/26/2009 4:00:30 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
Wow.. just wow.. where did you made that up dude? In your basement? I just said you're smart and you're already getting your head bigger LOL. You want a pure fact and not a made up facts? Read here (again LOL):

You do realize you're referencing a 5 year old demo run at 1280 as a reference for power consumption right? Might as well run Prime95 LOL. And Furmark...you do know AMD throttles performance via driver right? Even if he was able to run it (most 48x0 just crash), it was probably running at lower power draw due to the driver throttling. Name it UT3.exe and that story changes heh.

quote:
Yeah the overclockability maybe suck ass but its not like nvdia's gc also always do good in overclocking.

Ya I know their overclockability sucks, its been the same story for years on both their CPU and GPU for the very same reasons I've already detailed. Also, stop referencing insignificant parts no one in this price and performance bracket is interested in. I could reference a review I saw where they overclocked an IGP 8400 to 2x the clockspeed but no one gives a shit. LOL.


RE: Mixed Reviews.....literally
By Chocobollz on 9/26/2009 5:26:47 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
You do realize you're referencing a 5 year old demo run at 1280 as a reference for power consumption right? (and some other half-baked arguments)

Wow.. where did you get that? In a toilet somewhere in your basement again? Did you even read the articles? Or you just too busy with your hobby of making something to discredit ATI? Read again carefully:

quote:
Following our standard procedure, the 3D load was created by the first SM3.0/HDR test from 3DMark06 running in a loop at 1600x1200 with forced 4x FSAA and 16x AF . Additionally, we used OpenGL FurMark. The 2D load was emulated by the 2D Transparent Windows test from PCMark05. We’ve got the following results..


Two words, EPIC FAIL.

quote:
Might as well run Prime95 LOL. And Furmark...

LOL what? Your tongue got stuck? Is that the only you've got?

quote:
you do know AMD throttles performance via driver right? Even if he was able to run it (most 48x0 just crash), it was probably running at lower power draw due to the driver throttling. Name it UT3.exe and that story changes heh.

You seems to know everything huh dude? So why don't you open up a new website called "Chizow's NVIDIA labs" and start posting whatever benchmark results you want? I'm sure you would get a lot of visitors, well maybe in like.. 100 years? LOL And you're saying that X-bit labs isn't a credible source? Think again because I'd say many peoples will disagree with you.

And about the 5-year old demo, so exactly what do you want? You want them to do the benchmarks on all games ever made in history? Or is it you want them to run in a game which have the TWIMTBP by nvidia? I'm sure you would choose the latter just because it run better on nvidia's hardware?

And it seems that you know alot about AMD/ATI. Are you one of AMD's insiders dude? If so, let's start promoting ATI gc and not bashing it.

quote:
Also, stop referencing insignificant parts no one in this price and performance bracket is interested in. I could reference a review I saw where they overclocked an IGP 8400 to 2x the clockspeed but no one gives a shit. LOL.

Even if it was an IGP, it's still made by nvidia, so what I've said is still apply, or are you afraid from seeing the truth dude?


RE: Mixed Reviews.....literally
By chizow on 9/26/2009 7:13:13 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
Wow.. where did you get that? In a toilet somewhere in your basement again? Did you even read the articles? Or you just too busy with your hobby of making something to discredit ATI? Read again carefully:

Nope I didn't read it but the point is the same, the benchmark is going to be CPU limited regardless of resolution meaning both GPU will not be under the same % load so you'd never know actual TDP under full load. Its simple enough to test, running a fast GPU at 1280 and a slow GPU at 1280 with a slow CPU might produce similar FPS, yet the faster GPU would have a lower utilization rate than the slower GPU, which would be closer to 100%. Its obvious the 5870 isn't being fully stressed and its 3DMark06 score would indicate that, as it probably does not score much more than the GTX 285 due to CPU limitations. Run Vantage and that of course changes.

quote:
LOL what? Your tongue got stuck? Is that the only you've got?

Nope, they could've run a screensaver LMAO.

quote:
You seems to know everything huh dude? So why don't you open up a new website called "Chizow's NVIDIA labs" and start posting whatever benchmark results you want? I'm sure you would get a lot of visitors, well maybe in like.. 100 years?

Rofl once again this weak ass argument. There's no need for me to run benches for everyone to see, we have a dozen or so linked at the top of this page to back my points, remember? As enjoyable as reviewing hardware may be, I'm quite content doing what I do, thanks for the concern though.

quote:
And about the 5-year old demo, so exactly what do you want? You want them to do the benchmarks on all games ever made in history? Or is it you want them to run in a game which have the TWIMTBP by nvidia? I'm sure you would choose the latter just because it run better on nvidia's hardware?

No, running an actual GPU intensive game would've been a good start, not a CPU limited 5 year old benchmark that isn't even their newest version.

As for Xbit, they used to be a good site albeit a bit late on product reviews....but then at some point they started getting ATI preview hardware and their reviews took a decidedly reddish tint with results very different from other sites. Again, you only need to go back to January to see their benches claiming the 4870X2 was faster than the GTX 295 (yet its somehow 40%+ slower now?) and how they claimed the 4890 @1000MHz was faster than the GTX 285 because they compared it to a stock card.

quote:
And it seems that you know alot about AMD/ATI. Are you one of AMD's insiders dude? If so, let's start promoting ATI gc and not bashing it.

Nope, I just keep up with both because I'm genuinely interested in pc hardware and the info gets reinforced fighting off all the nonsense and misinformation spread by the likes of you.

Again, I'm not adverse to buying AMD/ATI again, there's just no reason for me to do so atm, but there's actually quite a lot of reasons not to, aside from performance.

PS. No one gives a shit how your IGP overclocks. Its useless in the very applications overclocking would be useful - gaming - so its irrelevant. The end.


RE: Mixed Reviews.....literally
By Chocobollz on 9/26/2009 10:17:50 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
Nope, they could've run a screensaver LMAO.

Then that could goes the same for all the sources you give us, is that how you want it to be? So all of your nonsense (your first post) is actually something not worth to read aka. trash? Hello? Do you realize you just contradicting yourself, Mr. fanbot? *knock2*

And man, you really makes me laugh because you clearly got kicked in the crotch but you still stand as if you don't feel anything :P. Or did it really hurts so you don't have anything to say than saying that they maybe wrong (which if you want to make it fair, along with all the sources and benchmark results you've been defending up until now)?

Congratulations man, you just PAWNED at the interweb!

Some advice: if you clearly have pawned, just stfu so you don't make yourself looks more embarassing LOL.

- 1ST PAWNED -

quote:
Its simple enough to test, running a fast GPU at 1280 and a slow GPU at 1280 with a slow CPU might produce similar FPS, yet the faster GPU would have a lower utilization rate than the slower GPU, which would be closer to 100%.

Do you own a benchmark site? You seems to think that you're better than them so why don't you make your own and lets see if you can be a trusted source like them. If not, then stfu because you're not in a position to tell us what to do. We have a lot more better person to decide it than you.

quote:
PS. No one gives a shit how your IGP overclocks. Its useless in the very applications overclocking would be useful - gaming - so its irrelevant. The end.

Wow, IGP is irrelevant, how ignorant could you be? With the sales of notebooks already surpassing desktop PCs, we shall see if what you're saying is true? Maybe yes, but I'd say not for a long time. With most of notebooks can't afford to have a dedicated graphics card (because of thermal & battery capacity limitations), IGP performance will hold the key to victory. Whoever can make the best IGP, will surely won the market share (like Intel does currently).

And also, with the advent of GPGPU, I don't think what you're saying is true anymore because GPU (and IGP) is more and more like a CPU, and so overclocking could be useful for other purposes aswell, like speeding up your folding, transcoding, or whatever GPGPU applications you have. And with most IGP migrated to DX11 in the near future (and so supporting DX11 DirectCompute), overclocking an IGP will actually gives you more performance, not only in games but also in all areas of computing, in the lowest price points possible. So I'd say many peoples would consider it as viable and the industry will start supporting it (just like what AMD have done with their AMD780G/HD3200 chipsets). My question for you, where is NVIDIA's position regarding this matter?

Checkmate? ;-)

quote:
Again, you only need to go back to January to see their benches claiming the 4870X2 was faster than the GTX 295 (yet its somehow 40%+ slower now?)

OMFG! Why is it take you so long to get what I (and the others) have been saying to you for all this time! LOL That's what I've been yelling at you all this time and yet you're like a deaf person who hear nothing except the superiority of nvidia and the inferiority of ATI.

You still don't get it? Ok, let's go back. My original thoughts is basically that the 5870 (which is just released yesterday) could be improving over time so making a judgement based on some early benchmarks is meaningless . Just like what you say about the GTX 295 being slower than the 4870 last January (an early benchmark). Now, 8 months later, the GTX 295 was 40% faster. So, if you were an ATI fanbot, you surely have made the posts bashing the GTX 295 in last January, just to get yourself pawned 8 months later. You don't want to get pawned again don't you? So why the fuss? And did you realize that you just got pawned again? If only you just stay silent and not being stubborn, you wouldn't get these triple or so pawned today LOL.

- 2ND PAWNED -

quote:
There's no need for me to run benches for everyone to see, we have a dozen or so linked at the top of this page to back my points , remember?

But then, they all could just run a screensaver just like what you said above , so what evidences could back you up? Nothing right? So now you're telling us that all of your talking here is actually a bunch of nonsense? That's a very good way to describe yourself.

- PAWNED AGAIN -

P.S. Congratulations on getting yourself PAWNED 3 times in a row, that would make a world record dude! ROFLMAO


RE: Mixed Reviews.....literally
By chizow on 9/27/2009 1:10:02 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
Some advice: if you clearly have pawned, just stfu so you don't make yourself looks more embarassing LOL.

If only you followed your own advice we would've been done days ago. Seriously, back to that ass kicking contest, you look about as ridiculous as a man trying to kick his OWN ass.

As for the screensaver comment, again, obviously too subtle an attempt at sarcasm as English isn't your first language. The difference is, the other sites actually know wtf they're doing and tested conditions that might, y'know, actually stress the GPU, like games. LMAO.

quote:
Do you own a benchmark site? You seems to think that you're better than them so why don't you make your own and lets see if you can be a trusted source like them. If not, then stfu because you're not in a position to tell us what to do. We have a lot more better person to decide it than you.

Once again, I wouldn't need one to make simple observations combined with a little critical thinking and first-hand experience. I'm sorry you dont' understand the fundamental relationships between resolution, FPS, GPU and CPU intensive applications, but again, that's not my problem.

quote:
Wow, IGP is irrelevant, how ignorant could you be?

You're an idiot, no one gives a shit about overclocking IGPs. PERIOD. Go post this nonsense over at eXtemeXXXX-{IGP}-OV3rCLOCKERZZZZ.com for all I care, just don't sit here and pretend anyone cares about it lol.

quote:
OMFG! Why is it take you so long to get what I (and the others) have been saying to you for all this time! LOL That's what I've been yelling at you all this time and yet you're like a deaf person who hear nothing except the superiority of nvidia and the inferiority of ATI.

You still don't get it? Ok, let's go back. My original thoughts is basically that the 5870 (which is just released yesterday) could be improving over time so making a judgement based on some early benchmarks is meaningless . Just like what you say about the GTX 295 being slower than the 4870 last January (an early benchmark). Now, 8 months later, the GTX 295 was 40% faster. So, if you were an ATI fanbot, you surely have made the posts bashing the GTX 295 in last January, just to get yourself pawned 8 months later. You don't want to get pawned again don't you? So why the fuss? And did you realize that you just got pawned again? If only you just stay silent and not being stubborn, you wouldn't get these triple or so pawned today LOL.

You just did it, you went full retarded. Its amazing really lets look at it logically:

quote:
Jan 2009 - GTX 295 is 5-10% slower than 4870X2 *
Sep 2009 - 4870X2 is 40% slower than 5870, but the GTX 295 is faster than the 5870. **

* - No other review sites come to this conclusion
** - No other review sites come to this conclusion


So they're claiming the GTX 295 is suddenly 50% faster than it was in January and that the 4870X2 is 40% slower than the 5870 now. The only problem is, neither of these conclusions are corroborated by ANY other review sites. Not then and not now.

When you have a clear pattern of a certain site producing results that are viewed as *OUTLIERS*, that site becomes an unreliable source of unbiased information. This once again goes back to my earlier comments about the site's results skewing over time, it shouldn't really be a surprise given they clearly indicate ATI Radeon sponsorship on the bottom of their page.

It also comes as no surprise idiots like you refer to it as their ONLY reference, ever, especially given there's over a dozen reputable links at the top of this page. Wonder why they didn't bother to link Xbit at the top? Hmmm. Oh and I'm sure I already linked this for you somewhere:

http://www.madshrimps.be/vbulletin/f22/amd-radeon-...

What were you saying again? 40% faster than the 4870X2? LMAO. More like 4% SLOWER than the 4870X2.

quote:
But then, they all could just run a screensaver just like what you said above , so what evidences could back you up? Nothing right? So now you're telling us that all of your talking here is actually a bunch of nonsense? That's a very good way to describe yourself.

Yeah, we could just look at all the links from reputable sites at the top or we could just take the word of some idiotic troll who obviously doesn't know what he's arguing about, lemme toss you back in the wet burlap bag:

quote:
By Chocobollz on 9/25/2009 2:55:03 AM:

Completely accurate statements based on a few preliminary benchmarks, even if it's accurate


WOOT WOOT!111eleenv!! PWNALIFatal1ownal1TY111QUADMDGMGHEADSHOTZ****LVLup+ ++____+++++++100!!!!!!!111

yOU LOSE. AT T3H INTARWEBZ. cU FREN. ENJOY UR 5870. NOOB. lol.


RE: Mixed Reviews.....literally
By troysavary on 9/23/2009 7:29:12 AM , Rating: 3
I wouldn't take the framerates too seriously at the moment. The drivers will improve greatly. It is always the case with a brand new GPU architecture. Besides, even if it stays as it is and is merely slightly competitive with a dual GPU 295, it easily trumps it in both price and power requirements.


RE: Mixed Reviews.....literally
By Targon on 9/23/2009 8:39:37 AM , Rating: 2
As others have stated, the GTX 295 is a dual GPU card. It would be like comparing performance of two single GPU cards in SLI and saying that the chips being used are better because TOGETHER the performance is higher than a single GPU solution.

The 5870 single GPU may not be able to beat the dual-GPU GTX 295, but it does a solid job, and the 5870x2 will EASILY beat the 295, so, in an apples to apples comparison, AMD/ATI will have the advantage.

We are also still early in the life of the product, and improvements to the drivers may push performance up by anywhere from 5 percent to 25 percent across the board in the next six months. You also have to look at the power draw of the cards as an issue, since not only is the price of the video card an issue, but also the cost of a 750 watt or above power supply vs. the 500 watt you can get away with with the 5870.

People doing the reviews may be looking at which is the fastest single card solution, but a real key is what the fastest single GPU solution is.

So, $380...not a bad price for what you get from the 5870, and the price will come down as volumes ramp up.


RE: Mixed Reviews.....literally
By chizow on 9/23/09, Rating: 0
RE: Mixed Reviews.....literally
By dark matter on 9/23/2009 9:46:30 AM , Rating: 2
Do you think this card was developed in 24 hours? Of course not, so this card is also based on months old technology.

We are talking about a single card compared to a dual card. Twin Engine against single engine. So the single engine card doesn't beat the twin engine, but it doesn't fail by much. What does that say about the twin engine card?

Still, lets wait and see what nVidia throws out. Are you going to have a bet with me that the new nVidia single chip card is going to beat the GTX295? I hope so, for your sake.


RE: Mixed Reviews.....literally
By chizow on 9/23/2009 11:17:50 AM , Rating: 2
Where did I claim it was developed in 24 hours? The portion you're referring to clearly acknowledges GPU technology is shockingly parallel and as a result the formula for GPU success is quite simple and has been for years:

1) Take what works from your previous designs.
2) Double it.
3) Shrink it.

The end result in the past has been near linear scaling provided you keep other factors similar, like clockspeeds. Except this isn't the case with the 5870, in fact, it scales worst than the 4870X2, which can at least claim multi-GPU scaling inefficiencies as an excuse.

As for what Nvidia has in store, sure, I'll take that bet. Based on the same leaked sources that leaked the 5870's specs and the obvious realization these parts aren't "developed in 24 hours", Nvidia's GT300 should beat the GTX 295. Its specs are actually closer to a full doubling of the GTX 285, rather than a GTX 275 x 2 as is the case with the 295.


RE: Mixed Reviews.....literally
By Chocobollz on 9/23/2009 2:02:51 PM , Rating: 2
Ok then chizow, good luck in getting yourself robbed because that GT300 you're talking will (almost) surely cost you your arm and legs. Oh and I'm almost forget, good luck in getting your PSU blew up ok?

Sources:

http://pda.xbitlabs.com/news/video/20090917194429_...


RE: Mixed Reviews.....literally
By Chocobollz on 9/25/2009 11:14:49 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
closer to a full doubling of the GTX 285

Who cares about its performance to be full doubling that that of previous gen cards? If you just want to double its performance, that would be a trivial things to do (hell even my mother could easily double myself by doing *it* with my father more often LOL)

The real question is, could they do that at a reasonable power draw? And I think, AMD/ATI just made a good products with a reasonable power draw without severly limiting its performance, so what's the problem? If you think that GT300 would have better performance than the 5870 and at the same time, using much less power, could you provide us the info? Because all I can see right now is it will also fell short of its expectations, just like what described in this link:

http://pda.xbitlabs.com/news/video/20090917194429_...


RE: Mixed Reviews.....literally
By Parhel on 9/23/2009 10:34:50 AM , Rating: 5
quote:
As for 5870X2 easily beating the 295...there's no doubt about that, but the 5870X2 (and the 5870 for that matter) won't be competing against the GTX 295 for much longer. They'll be going up against the GT300-based GTX 380 and soon after, the GX2 version. The 295 again being significant because that's what GT300 will be compared against relative to how well the new generation scales compared to the old.....


The case can always be made that the next big thing is right around the corner, but you can do that forever and never end up buying. You don't know that the GT300 will be out any time soon, or even that it will beat the 5870 when it arrives. I think it will, but I know that if it does, nvidia will charge whatever premium they can get away with. Right now, today, the 5870 is the clear choice for an enthusiast level card.

Say what you will about the GTX 295, the fact is that it's now irrelevant. No matter how much they drop the price by, it doesn't offer DirectX 11. Who would spend $500, or even $200, for a card that will be severely limited in running the next generation of games?


RE: Mixed Reviews.....literally
By chizow on 9/23/2009 11:30:30 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
The case can always be made that the next big thing is right around the corner, but you can do that forever and never end up buying. You don't know that the GT300 will be out any time soon, or even that it will beat the 5870 when it arrives. I think it will, but I know that if it does, nvidia will charge whatever premium they can get away with. Right now, today, the 5870 is the clear choice for an enthusiast level card.

What you seem to be missing here is that GPU generational gaps are well defined and limited by factors controlled indepent of the GPU makers. In layman's speak, how fast they can make a new GPU is more or less out of their control, so that puts them on the same schedule.

In this case, the limiting factor is TSMC's most advanced fab process, which is currently 40nm. Both AMD and Nvidia are using this for their current gen GPUs. Contrary to popular belief, these GPUs don't just pop out of the ground 24 hours prior to launch time, they spend months taping out and going through the various steps required to put it on a PCB.

During that process, reliable information is learned and passed on to our daily tech tabloids, which gives us reasonable confidence dependent on the source and frequency of such rumors. AMD's "Cypress" taped out a few months prior to Nvidia's GT300. 5870 just launched. It stands to reason Nvidia's GT300 isn't far behind.

So yes, for this generation, we can reasonably expect Nvidia to follow with their next-gen part in the next few months, followed again by another 12-18 months of relative dormancy (maybe a refresh thrown in) until the next generation rumors start building up....and so the cycle continues.

quote:
Say what you will about the GTX 295, the fact is that it's now irrelevant. No matter how much they drop the price by, it doesn't offer DirectX 11. Who would spend $500, or even $200, for a card that will be severely limited in running the next generation of games?

How is it irrelevant if its still the fastest single-card in current games? Sure it doesn't fully support DX11, but I'm willing to bet you couldn't even tell me what features DX11 supports over DX10, or give explicit examples of how those supported features would improve performance in the 5870's favor. If anything, it'll result in lower performance as the addition of unsupported features would have zero impact on the GTX 295, as those features would be excluded.


RE: Mixed Reviews.....literally
By ChickenMcTest on 9/23/2009 1:46:33 PM , Rating: 3
I don't understand what you are arguing.

You are saying you would purchase a GTX295 over a 5870?

Right now at New Egg the lowest priced GTX295 is over $450, and that is after a rebate.
The 5870 is $380, and I don't have to hassle with a mail in rebate.

In the Anandtech review the GTX295 is never more than 2 or 3 fps faster than the 5870.

AMD's stated strategy is to provide the best value. Clearly this card is a better value than the GTX 295. That is why it is a success.

Nvidia is not known for under hyping its products. If GT300 was just a month or two away you can bet they would be making announcements.


RE: Mixed Reviews.....literally
By chizow on 9/23/2009 7:06:31 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
You are saying you would purchase a GTX295 over a 5870?

No, I'm saying there's no reason for someone who has a GTX 295 or similar level of performance (2x275, 2x280, 2x285, 2x260, 2x4890, 2x4870, 4870x2) to upgrade because the 5870 is SLOWER than what they have. That's the point, the previews hyped the product to be significantly faster than the 295, but instead, its slower. While its certainly still a good part, its obviously quite a disappointment given the expectations built up over the last few months....

As for being some great value, I'm not so sure about that given just about half of those solutions I listed above are faster than a 5870 at a lower price point. If anyone already had one of those in a single card config, their cash outlay would certainly be less just buying a second rather than spending on the 5870.

quote:
Nvidia is not known for under hyping its products. If GT300 was just a month or two away you can bet they would be making announcements.

Actually if you look at their last two home runs, G80 and G92, they were VERY mum in the months leading up to launch. G80 completely blind-sided everyone with its amazing performance, as did G92 with both its pricing and performance. Very little news leading up to their launches, in fact all you'll really find is the typical BS naysayer garbage from Charlie @ theInq.


RE: Mixed Reviews.....literally
By Parhel on 9/23/2009 1:47:25 PM , Rating: 4
quote:
So yes, for this generation, we can reasonably expect Nvidia to follow with their next-gen part in the next few months


Well, if GT300 is really due in the next few months, Nvidia has been awfully silent about it . . . and the rumors all point to a delay. I hope you're right, but I wouldn't put money on it.

quote:
How is it irrelevant if its still the fastest single-card in current games?


It's irrelevant in the same way that any $200+ DX10 card is now irrelevant. Because it won't give you a better experience than the HD5870 in any current title, and it will be seriously handicapped on future titles. I don't mean that everyone has to upgrade their existing cards, mind you, but you would be foolish to buy a GTX295 today.

quote:
Sure it doesn't fully support DX11, but I'm willing to bet you couldn't even tell me what features DX11 supports over DX10, or give explicit examples of how those supported features would improve performance in the 5870's favor.


It doesn't fully support DX11??? It doesn't support it at all!!! It doesn't even support DX10.1.

quote:
If anything, it'll result in lower performance as the addition of unsupported features would have zero impact on the GTX 295, as those features would be excluded.


You're actually arguing the point that DX11 support is somehow bad??? Should we all check the box before we buy a video card to make sure it doesn't support DX11? How much more should I be willing to pay to make sure my card doesn't come with that terrible feature??? Come on . . . that's fanboy talk.


RE: Mixed Reviews.....literally
By chizow on 9/23/2009 7:23:10 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Well, if GT300 is really due in the next few months, Nvidia has been awfully silent about it . . . and the rumors all point to a delay. I hope you're right, but I wouldn't put money on it.

Of course you wouldn't put money on it, you'd already be happily computing and gaming on your shiny new 5870....for at least a few months until GT300 launched anyways.

quote:
It's irrelevant in the same way that any $200+ DX10 card is now irrelevant. Because it won't give you a better experience than the HD5870 in any current title, and it will be seriously handicapped on future titles. I don't mean that everyone has to upgrade their existing cards, mind you, but you would be foolish to buy a GTX295 today.

And similarly, the 5870 doesn't give you a better experience in current titles over any combination of DX10 video cards priced around its MSRP. There are no visual benefits in current games, the improved AF offers no noticeable advantage and the re-implemenation of SSAA is broken on the 5870. Simply put, the 5870 isn't going to be compelling enough of an upgrade for many users to upgrade over their 5-6 month old 4890s and GTX 275s.

quote:
It doesn't fully support DX11??? It doesn't support it at all!!! It doesn't even support DX10.1.

Hehe its obvious you have no clue what you're talking about, DX11 is a strict superset of DX10.1 and DX10. Its not an all or nothing situation like DX10 and DX9, its features are completely modular as many DX11 functions are fully compatible with DX10 hardware. This is by design and the main benefit of programmable shaders introduced with DX10 parts.

So again, please tell me what benefits DX10.1 have over DX10 (hint: AMD is still trying to convince us its important, well, not so much now that those same features are in DX11) and what DX11 requires over DX10.1 support. I already know the answer, I just figured you'd be able to tell me since you think DX11 is SOOOOOO important. ;)

In any case, the most important feature of DX11, Compute Shaders, is fully backward compatible on DX10 hardware. not to mention devs would be completely adverse to programming specific features for low install-base parts like the 5870.

quote:
You're actually arguing the point that DX11 support is somehow bad??? Should we all check the box before we buy a video card to make sure it doesn't support DX11? How much more should I be willing to pay to make sure my card doesn't come with that terrible feature??? Come on . . . that's fanboy talk.

Where did I make any such claim? Oh right, I didn't, you made the claim DX11 somehow improves performance, when that's clearly not the case. If one piece of hardware runs a feature and the other does not, there's a good chance the hardware that does will have performance decreased due to the additional load. Does enabling HDR, AA, AF, PhysX, SSAO, etc. improve performance over a part that has it disabled? No, it doesn't.


RE: Mixed Reviews.....literally
By jonmcc33 on 9/23/2009 9:37:43 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
... it'll have to deal with Nvidia's next-gen offering GT300 over the long-term.


Oh, the significantly larger GPU which means more heat and power draw? Probably a lot longer board as well? They will need to start redesigning cases at this point just to fit the graphics cards or we'll have to be forced to get Extended ATX server chassis.

My only complaint is the price. I got a Radeon HD 4830 because of the $90 price tag plus fairly impressive performance against it's 4850 brother and it was a significant boost over my old X1900XT.

But I use a 22-inch Samsung at 1680x1050. Getting a 5870 would be pointless for me right now. The only game I intend to play in the near future are Modern Warfare 2 and Operation Flashpoint: Dragon Rising. If my Radeon HD 4830 can play these then I will skip this generation of video cards.

I'm just a bit cautious about spending that much money on video cards anymore after spending $500 on my old X1900XT, $300 on my old Radeon X800XT and $400 on my old Radeon 9700 Pro. The $100 price range seems a bit more acceptable for me. At most $200.


By haukionkannel on 9/23/2009 11:25:01 AM , Rating: 2
Yep. The most important new ATI will be 5750 and 5770 cards in the middle range. Even they may be somewhat powerfull for 1680*1050 if you don't plan on using insane high AA.
But Nvidia has proven that good flagship model can sell a lot rebranded old technology models to ignorant customers. So the 5870 has a lot potential in that sence. And ofcource if you use much bigger resolutions, it's nice card to have.


RE: Mixed Reviews.....literally
By flurazepam on 9/23/2009 3:04:58 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
Reactions and reviews are certainly split, while its clearly the fastest single-GPU right now it still loses overall to the GTX 295 and even its own predecessor, the 4870X2 as the fastest single-card solution. What is painfully clear however is the 5870 does *NOT* live up to the hype generated over the last few weeks from various "leaked" marketing slides and web outlets.


Wow! Did you even read any of the reviews?? This is a single GPU that performs almost on par (some above, some below) with the DUAL GPU GTX295, but with some MAJOR advantages (over the 295,285,275).

DX11 - check
Hardware tesselation - check
GPU transcoding faster than 285/295 - check - Source: Guru3d
Perfect execution of angle-independent anisotropic filtering with little to NO performance hit - check - Source: Anandtech
Complete support for 8-channel LPCM, TrueHD & DTS-HD MA Bitstreaming over HDMI - check - Source: Anandtech
Future support of Blueray playback in full Aero mode - check - Source: Anandtech
Scales extremely well - check - Source: Guru3d
Manages to keep up or exceed the 295 with BETA drivers - check
Currently future proof - check

Upcoming DX11 titles will definitely run better than DX10.X titles with noticeably better graphics. At that point, DX10 cards will be left in the dust. If you are going to claim that something doesn't live up the "hype", provide evidence to the contrary.


RE: Mixed Reviews.....literally
By The0ne on 9/23/2009 3:13:15 PM , Rating: 2
Xbit labs has a good summary of the "goods" as well :) I'll paste the here...

Highs:

* The highest performance among single-processor graphics cards;
* In most cases outperforms Radeon HD 4870;
* In some cases outperforms GeForce GTX 295;
* Doesn’t depend on software multi-GPU support
* Wide range of supported FSAA modes;
* Best Edge-detect CFAA in the industry;
* Best anisotropic filtering in the industry;
* Supports up to three monitors;
* 1024 MB of fast GDDR5 local video memory onboard;
* 1600 ALU, 80 texture processors and 32 raster processors;
* DirectX 11, Shader Model 5.0 and DirectCompute 11 support;
* Fully-fledged hardware HD video decoding;
* High-quality HD video post-processing with scalability;
* Integrated sound core with HD support;
* Sound over HDMI;
* Low power consumption;
* Low noise.

Lows:

* Large size.


RE: Mixed Reviews.....literally
By The0ne on 9/23/2009 3:14:43 PM , Rating: 2
Just noticed Xbit isn't even on the list of review sites! They can't be missed for their reporting. For those who are interested here's the link to their review...

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/rad...

Anand and Xbit!


RE: Mixed Reviews.....literally
By chizow on 9/23/2009 7:50:03 PM , Rating: 2
Good job highlighting one paragraph, then selectively ignoring the next that covers many of those features. ;) As I already stated, yes, the peripheral features are nice incremental upgrades, but not enough to overshadow the fact its still slower than last-gen single-card parts, including the part it was meant to replace, the 4870X2.


RE: Mixed Reviews.....literally
By Chocobollz on 9/24/2009 3:27:29 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Taken from X-bit labs articles:

So, the classic single-chip architecture has returned with new capabilities and new level of performance, making the Radeon HD 4870 X2 obsolete . Nvidia finds itself lagging behind once again.

What? Your tongue got stuck? You're clearly the one who selectively takes only its weaknesses and use it for your own good. Better luck next time.


By SavagePotato on 9/29/2009 2:51:02 PM , Rating: 2
It isn't supposed to replace the 4870x2. It replaces the 4870. The 5870x2 will replace the 4870x2.

The entire basis of the several dozen troll rants you have posted in this thread revolve around comparing a single chip card to dual chip cards.

You do realize you are being foolish and wasting everyones time, as well as a great deal of your own to type out those babbling nonsense rants correct?


At last...
By hadifa on 9/23/2009 12:26:33 AM , Rating: 2
It's here at last.

Looking at the news around the net, It seems Nvidia is going to drop the ball at least early this round!

Nvidia stating DX 11 doesn't matter and having problem with 40nm parts plus AMD deciding to go with $399 for HD5870 instead of $349 among other indicators are boding bad for Nvidia and competition.




RE: At last...
By Totally on 9/23/2009 1:25:11 AM , Rating: 2
nvidia at this point can only price match the 5870 with the GTX295 in price, and shave about $120 across the board on the GTX285, give or take $25 depending on how the 5850 performs.


RE: At last...
By Mitch101 on 9/23/2009 11:00:01 AM , Rating: 4
They have to drop the price of the NVIDIA cards to lower than ATI's offering. The reality is if you buy the ATI card your future proofing your purchase because DX11 will be here soon. If you buy the NVIDIA card in the same price range you dont get any DX11 support when it comes out.

NVIDIA will downplay DX11 because there is no DX11 games but I would much rather spend money on a card that will support DX11 future proofing my purchase for when DX11 is released and there are games out for it.


RE: At last...
By The0ne on 9/23/2009 7:14:02 PM , Rating: 2
You would think that makes common sense but I distinctly remember people saying the same thing about DX10 and look how that turned out. In this case, however, I will have to agree that DX11 will be much more supported and it would better to grab a card that does support "future" games/apps.


RE: At last...
By Mitch101 on 9/23/2009 9:34:03 PM , Rating: 2
If Im going to fork out nearly the same amount of cash for a video card what difference if a few frames per second when one card has DX11 and the other Doesnt.

Seems clear to me if I am in the market for a video card and cant wait to see what NVIDIA is offering its a pretty clear choice right now on what to buy if you can afford it.


RE: At last...
By The0ne on 9/28/2009 12:25:46 PM , Rating: 2
I don't disagree with, just saying proceed with caution on this future proof concept because you're betting on the industry and consumers to embrace them. Personally, I think we're at the stage where graphics are very good, sound is great and future improvements might not have too much of an impact to most gamers, except for die hard tech geeks like me who cares about the tech itself rather than play saying I'm a hardcore gamer hahaha


RE: At last...
By jonmcc33 on 9/24/2009 10:19:40 AM , Rating: 2
There's no such thing as "future proofing". Those that got the first DX10 cards from nVIDIA (8800) sure couldn't handle much DX10 gaming at all and don't compare to the GTX 260 cards that can actually handle DX10 games.

Not to mention DX10.1 that came out later on. No future proofing by getting an initial DX10 card.

My old Radeon 9700 Pro (first DX9 graphics card) couldn't handle some of the DX9 games of today like COD4 could it?

Please, stop using the words "future proof" because they will never apply.


RE: At last...
By Final8ty on 9/25/2009 10:07:30 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
by jonmcc33 on September 24, 2009 at 10:19 AM There's no such thing as "future proofing". Those that got the first DX10 cards from nVIDIA (8800) sure couldn't handle much DX10 gaming at all and don't compare to the GTX 260 cards that can actually handle DX10 games. Not to mention DX10.1 that came out later on. No future proofing by getting an initial DX10 card. My old Radeon 9700 Pro (first DX9 graphics card) couldn't handle some of the DX9 games of today like COD4 could it? Please, stop using the words "future proof" because they will never apply.


It has already been shown that the new ATI can run DX11 titles at acceptable speeds.
Things do change & not everything in history is repeated time after time at every opportunity.

So in this case "future proofing" is a reality.


RE: At last...
By The0ne on 9/28/2009 12:27:33 PM , Rating: 2
According to some of the reviews there were limited titles showned/demoed/tested and DX11 features were missing, rather only a few were implemented. I have to be honest, I read the review on my phone during my doctor's visit and couldn't really make the visual comparisons :) I'll have to do that when time permits to see the difference.


RE: At last...
By tviceman on 9/23/2009 1:16:56 PM , Rating: 2
The GTX 295 is still faster and in the short term can still command a premium price, but IMO only by $50 tops.

My biggest problem with launch cards is the noise they generate. I've got a antec 900 case and it does not dampen sound well.


RE: At last...
By tviceman on 9/23/2009 1:18:43 PM , Rating: 2
And just to say, I would not buy a gtx295 over a 5870. At this point I'm waiting to see what nvidia brings to the table. It's been nearly 2 years since they've come out with a new high end chip design.


RE: At last...
By Samus on 9/23/2009 5:42:24 PM , Rating: 2
right, the gts295 is slightly faster. but even at the same price as the hd5870 (if nvidia were to drop it) it wouldn't be the card to get simply because it doesn't have DX11.

so basically there is no comparison for these cards right now. all you can talk about is numbers at this point.


RE: At last...
By AnotherGuy on 9/23/2009 1:28:16 AM , Rating: 1
5870 is only $379 right now...


Disturbing
By BruceLeet on 9/28/2009 11:23:39 PM , Rating: 2
It really bothers me when Dailytech mwmbwea compare apples to oranges and even at that, they ONLY pay attention to the FRAMES PER SECOND. And these are the ones who do NOT pay for it themselves, still using dads credit card.

Price
Power consumption
Heat
Overclock ability.
Not just FPS

And I discredit the way most technology sites benchmark by Date of Release. The way it should be is generation to generation. If I had it my way, latest gen hardware would NOT under any circumcstance be compared to a last gen hardware.

Latest and last gen, 2 totally different things, what to compare a '10 Ford Fusion to a '04 Prius? Distance of generation is irrelavent, what is relavent is that it is indeed a different generation.




RE: Disturbing
By BruceLeet on 9/28/2009 11:26:56 PM , Rating: 2
It should say members not mwmbwea LOL.


By kroker on 9/23/2009 4:20:10 PM , Rating: 2
I think ATI could have clocked HD 5870 a little higher so that it could beat GTX 295 if they really wanted to, but I think the additional power consumption, noise and temperature simply weren't worth it. The fact that it doesn't take the title of "fastest video card on the market" is irrelevant, especially since it comes pretty close anyway, and at a lower price and power consumption. If I remember correctly, GTX 280 didn't beat 9800GX2 either. I'm also sure performance will improve in time for the 5870 with better drivers, whereas for the GTX the performance is pretty much maxed out.

When ATI will release cheaper DX11 cards too, it will be the end of DX10 cards. I mean, why buy something that is last gen, even with similar or even better performance at the same price point, when you can buy a current gen card. They say DX 11 games will be backwards compatible to DX 10 cards, but why settle for less features? Why buy a GTX 295, even if priced similarly to the 5870, when it consumes more power and it only supports DX 10. GTX has become irrelevant for most people (unless you really need an Nvidia card for CUDA, PhysiX stereo or, of course, if you are an Nvidia fanboy). People may still buy cheap DX 10 cards, but I don't understand why you would want to buy any other card that costs more than 379$. You can always buy two HD5870 or HD5850 if you're really into multi-gpu. Nvidia is in big trouble in my opinion.

HD5850 should have even better value per dollar, since AMD claims it will have 80% the performance of HD5870, but for 70% the price.

All in all, great card, but... I was a little disappointed. I don't know why, maybe I was expecting too much, or maybe I waited too long for it.

Anyway, good job ATI! Keep up the good work! But I'm not going to upgrade my HD4850 soon, it's still doing a fine job.




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