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DailyTech's roundup of hardware reviews from around the web for Wednesday

AMD Phenom X3 8750 Triple-Core
@ AnandTech
@ TechReport
@ TweakTown
@ HotHardware
@ PCPer
@ OCC
@ Motherboards
@ Guru3D
@ LegitReviews
@ bit-tech
@ ComputerShopper
@ AMDZone

Video
HIS HD3850 AGP @ 3dGameMan
ASUS Radeon HD 3850 X2 1GB @ PCPer

Memory
Kingston HyperX 2GB PC3-13000 @ LegionHardware

Cooling
Noctua NH-U12P CPU Cooler @ XtremeComputing
Xigmatek Red Scorpion S1283 HDT CPU Cooler @ BenchmarkReviews

Cases
Cooler Master Cosmos S @ HardwareSecrets
Coolermaster Centurion 590 @ DriverHeaven

Flash Drives
A-Data C702 16GB @ OCModShop

Systems
Gigabyte STA Thin Client @ Phoronix

Peripherals
Cyber Snipa Stinger Gaming Mouse @ OCIA
Digiana AudiaX DGT-301 Wireless Audio FM Transmitter @ I4U
Lapworks Attaché Laptop Stand @ HardwareLogic

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Errrrr why DDR2 800?
By dragonbif on 4/23/2008 9:44:16 PM , Rating: 3
I don’t know why but could someone tell me why in some of those reviews they used DDR2 800 memory? The ones that did use that memory did not compare well with the Intel CPU’s or at all for that matter. They are all using new AMD chip sets so why not use DDR2 1066 memory like the CPU is made for? It’s hard for me to build a system when the test results for all the reviewers are so different in their results and their test builds know what I mean. But hay Intel had to lower the price of their Q6600 another $20 =)
So anyway I just wanted to point that out and hope people take a close look at how they are testing and pick the one that at least tried to test in a way that put all the CPU’s on a level they were meant to be on.
Lol one of them had different high end memory for the Intel and normal for the AMD…take a look and see if you can find it.




RE: Errrrr why DDR2 800?
By lagitup on 4/23/2008 11:49:14 PM , Rating: 2
I think its so they can get a comparison to the athlon x2's (might be wrong)


Those reviews were so sad...
By daftrok on 4/23/08, Rating: -1
RE: Those reviews were so sad...
By Mitch101 on 4/23/2008 6:30:29 PM , Rating: 2
At the very least they executed on the idea. It should also help in the transition to 45m. Not to mention allows them to sell a quad core chip with a bad core for something more than a loss.

I'm looking forward to see what BullDozer does. Im hoping AMD executes without any delays and maybe we get to see this chip in full production sooner than expected.


RE: Those reviews were so sad...
By Pirks on 4/23/2008 7:30:33 PM , Rating: 1
Only rich kids/enthusiasts and benchmarking freaks go for high-end Intel chips anyway, since w/o overclocking AMD platform just kills Intel's for the mainstream/budget conscious buyer.

AMD quads are priced the same as competing Intel quads, same's true for dual cores, and you can also get very fast single cores from them - Intel's single core #rap is nowhere near these nice and fast 45W 2.6 GHz K8 chips.

That's why AMD still sells a lot of stuff - because most people don't give a #amn about GHz and heat and stuff like that. People want platform that's FAST ENOUGH and CHEAP at the same time - and this is the area where Intel with its pathetic so-called "GPUs" gets his #ss handed to it.

Let's see how well AMD executes on 45nm transition, maybe they will pull it off and move a notch closer to Intel's CPU performance.


RE: Those reviews were so sad...
By Accord99 on 4/23/2008 8:20:02 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
That's why AMD still sells a lot of stuff - because most people don't give a #amn about GHz and heat and stuff like that. People want platform that's FAST ENOUGH and CHEAP at the same time - and this is the area where Intel with its pathetic so-called "GPUs" gets his #ss handed to it.

That's also why AMD is bleeding money, they have nothing to sell other than low-end products.


RE: Those reviews were so sad...
By Pirks on 4/23/2008 8:40:24 PM , Rating: 4
People calling Phenom 9850 or Radeon 3870 X2 a "low-end product" are pathetic idiots.


RE: Those reviews were so sad...
By daftrok on 4/23/2008 9:40:49 PM , Rating: 2
I am so sick of hearing "AMD's single core's are so much better than Intel's single core." Guess what? ITS BEEN THREE YEARS! THOSE DAYS ARE DEAD! Its that whole "remember AMD Turion? Those are soo much better than Pentium 4!" argument all over again. Get with the times. Intel is selling dual core Celeron and Pentium processors for under 60 bucks for the low end market:

http://www.dailytech.com/Intel+Price+Cuts+Reach+50...

Almost every laptop and desktop from Dell and HP come standard with Core 2 Duo. AMD is reaching a very dangerous point in their career and need to turn it around before Intel becomes the Microsoft of CPUs.


RE: Those reviews were so sad...
By Pirks on 4/23/2008 10:03:57 PM , Rating: 2
This changes nothing - AMD is still the king of low end and mainstream, because a) they usually beat Intel in price/preformance/watt ratio in these segments and b) they offer a killer mainstream platform called AMD 780G, which noone can come close to these days.

So what if Intel makes some expensive 45nm CPUs that are only good for overclockers and benchmark freaks who constitute a couple of percent of the whole CPU market?

It's like Apple who makes elite computers but also has just several percent of the market. Since mass product manufacturers are not afraid of niche products - why would AMD be afraid of some niche extreme CPUs? It's the mainstream where the battle is happening, and in mainstream AMD Phenom and 3870 videochips are extremely competitive.

Hence I'm not bothered about AMD bleeding money - they make hefty buck selling their excellent mainstream products (sometimes best in the class like 780G) so they are going to continue bleeding for a while, but the bleeding will be getting smaller and smaller as AMD continues to shrink its huge ATI-imposed debt, and when the debt is paid off (probably next year if AMD gets lucky) and 45nm Phenoms are out - THEN we'll talk about competition.

For now AMD will be hampered by ATI acquisition, but it's already paying off in the world's leading IGP (780G) and also world's leading 55nm 3D chip/IGP manufacturing process.

So I don't see any reasons to worry, daftrok. Stop being an Intel fanboy for a sec and try to view the situation without any overclocker/benchmark freako inspired prejudices.


RE: Those reviews were so sad...
By Accord99 on 4/23/2008 11:03:10 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
This changes nothing - AMD is still the king of low end and mainstream, because a) they usually beat Intel in price/preformance/watt ratio in these segments and b) they offer a killer mainstream platform called AMD 780G, which noone can come close to these days.

No, AMD is king of the low-end because they have nothing competing in the high-end and therefore must price their products accordingly. A good integrated chipset and more competitiveness in video cards isn't close to enough to stem their bleeding in CPUs.

quote:
It's like Apple who makes elite computers but also has just several percent of the market. Since mass product manufacturers are not afraid of niche products - why would AMD be afraid of some niche extreme CPUs? It's the mainstream where the battle is happening, and in mainstream AMD Phenom and 3870 videochips are extremely competitive.

Intel is not AMD. The niche CPUs are important because they dictate pricing, since AMD has nothing competitive to them, they're forced to price their products below them. What's worse, thanks to the Barcelona's size they're also far more expensive to produce.

quote:
Hence I'm not bothered about AMD bleeding money - they make hefty buck selling their excellent mainstream products (sometimes best in the class like 780G) so they are going to continue bleeding for a while, but the bleeding will be getting smaller and smaller as AMD continues to shrink its huge ATI-imposed debt, and when the debt is paid off (probably next year if AMD gets lucky) and 45nm Phenoms are out - THEN we'll talk about competition.

Except they don't make hefty bucks, they are losing hundreds of millions of dollars each quarter, and their debt problems are growing. They also missed expectations in Q1.

quote:
For now AMD will be hampered by ATI acquisition, but it's already paying off in the world's leading IGP (780G) and also world's leading 55nm 3D chip/IGP manufacturing process.

The ATI deal has paid off handsomely for ATI shareholders who got $5 billion in cash for their shares, but has probably doomed AMD financially.


RE: Those reviews were so sad...
By lagitup on 4/23/2008 11:47:53 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
No, AMD is king of the low-end because they have nothing competing in the high-end and therefore must price their products accordingly. A good integrated chipset and more competitiveness in video cards isn't close to enough to stem their bleeding in CPUs.


Actually, they have something competing in the high end, just doesnt compete with intel's high end. Unless you really care THAT MUCH about getting 60fps on crysis, amd's price/performance does a nice job of combating intel.

quote:
Intel is not AMD. The niche CPUs are important because they dictate pricing, since AMD has nothing competitive to them, they're forced to price their products below them. What's worse, thanks to the Barcelona's size they're also far more expensive to produce.


What I really hear you saying here is, "Dont hate because you cant afford it," sounds like exactly what all the apple fanboys i know say.

quote:
Except they don't make hefty bucks, they are losing hundreds of millions of dollars each quarter, and their debt problems are growing. They also missed expectations in Q1.


At least they don't engage in anti-competitive behavior to make big bucks out of *their* inferior architecture...

quote:
The ATI deal has paid off handsomely for ATI shareholders who got $5 billion in cash for their shares, but has probably doomed AMD financially.


Except ATI does a very nice job. If they had an equivelant to The Way It's Meant To Be Played their superior architecture would have stolen lots of market share away from nVidia long ago. BTW, how is Intel doing these days with those integrated graphics?


RE: Those reviews were so sad...
By Accord99 on 4/24/2008 3:42:29 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Actually, they have something competing in the high end, just doesnt compete with intel's high end. Unless you really care THAT MUCH about getting 60fps on crysis, amd's price/performance does a nice job of combating intel.

They don't have anything highend. AMD's price/performance is because of its weakness, since it's not competitive in performance it has to compete in price. Hence the large operating losses in its CPU division.

quote:
What I really hear you saying here is, "Dont hate because you cant afford it," sounds like exactly what all the apple fanboys i know say.

No, what I'm saying is that AMD's inability to compete at anything other than the low-end is destroying it financially.

quote:
Except ATI does a very nice job. If they had an equivelant to The Way It's Meant To Be Played their superior architecture would have stolen lots of market share away from nVidia long ago. BTW, how is Intel doing these days with those integrated graphics?

Doing well enough for its intended markets. ATI doing a decent job (after a disastrous year) hardly matters when the $5 billion used to pay for it is drowning AMD in a sea of debt.


RE: Those reviews were so sad...
By Pirks on 4/24/2008 4:31:26 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
what I'm saying is that AMD's inability to compete at anything other than the low-end is destroying it financially.
And what I'm saying is that your inability to call Phenom and Radeon 3870 chips "mainstream product" is destroying you mentally - you look like another stupid Intel fanboy, who calls EVERYTHING non-Intel a "low-end product"


RE: Those reviews were so sad...
By Locutus465 on 4/24/2008 5:20:52 PM , Rating: 2
Yeah, I would say AMD has solid contenders in the mid (high mid) to low end, and is very attractive as a platform. Grant it currently Intel does hold a good lead on the very high end. Still, I would say the situation for AMD has improved vastly, thanks to the strong platform they're absolutly worth a look.


RE: Those reviews were so sad...
By Pirks on 4/24/2008 6:48:01 PM , Rating: 2
I can't wait until they start selling 45nm Phenoms and their debt is finally paid off - for now I'm planning to assemble AMD 780G based cheapo desktop for my parents and equip it with fast and cool 45W X2 4850e goodness, and possibly I'll switch back from Intel to Phenom in future, AMD is again looking very sweet to me price/performance wise. Intel had its good times when I was assembling my gaming PC a couple of years ago, thanks Intel it was good being with you for the past couple of years, but not anymore ;-)

I never said Intel is bad for overclockers and benchmark freaks, I just said Intel is not that interesting anymore for the mainstream PC buyer, that's all.

Of course for some stupid Intel fanatics this sounds like a blasphemy but it's their own mental health issues, let the doctors deal with those

By the way did you hear how hastily nVidia shifted their 9900GTX release date to July when they heard about RV770 coming out by then? Man, I smell AMD/ATI coming back to the town BIG time, I was soo bored with total nVidia domination in 3D market all these years... ahh there's that sweet smell of competition again, go AMD go!


RE: Those reviews were so sad...
By gramboh on 4/24/2008 8:03:58 PM , Rating: 2
Not worried about AMD losing hundreds of million a quarter? Who are you, Sharikou? Haha


RE: Those reviews were so sad...
By eye smite on 4/24/2008 10:42:12 AM , Rating: 2
Now if we look at the platform, AMD does actually have an advantage. The AMD 780G's integrated graphics is a far better solution for the casual gamer than what Intel offers with its G35 but on top of that, 780G offers full H.264/VC-1/MPEG-2 decode acceleration making it a far better platform for watching Blu-ray movies. With the format war over and Blu-ray drives unbelievably affordable right now, this is a serious issue for Intel.

Even anandtech admits an advantage with amd over intel......


RE: Those reviews were so sad...
By jarman on 4/24/2008 7:00:22 PM , Rating: 2
Maybe more like non-competitive mid to high-end...


RE: Those reviews were so sad...
By Locutus465 on 4/24/2008 10:11:42 AM , Rating: 2
to be perfectly honest I think looking at what's going on right now I would say that probably what we're seeing happen is AMD work out their (former) platform issues at the expense of CPU HP for a little while. Remember, AMD doesn't have the resources of intel so I wouldn't be supprised if they can only effectivly tackel one problem at at time.

I'm guessing once the ground work for spider is laid out AMD is going to bring their attn back to CPU's. Actually I'm pretty happy with what I'm seeing come out of AMD these days, as a platform AMD is extreamly competitive with intel. Heck, I just went all AMD with my latest build and there isn't a game on the market my system can't run absolutly silky smooth at my 19" monitors native res (1280x1024), which is absolutly perfect for me. I couldn't be happier with my Phenom/790FX/3970 upgrade.


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