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Gadgets 40GB PlayStation 3 Still Running 90nm Chips
Marcus Yam (Blog) - November 5, 2007 12:58 PM
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90nm chips still in use by PlayStation 3

With the release of the 40GB PlayStation 3 nearing worldwide proportions, some took one look at the specifications sheet and assumed that it contained 65nm chips after noticing that the latest SKU is a good bit less power-hungry than the 60 or 80GB models. While the 40GB PS3 does indeed draw less juice, Sony says that the latest hardware still runs 90nm chips.

According to information received by German publication Heise Online, the new 40GB PlayStation 3 hardware does not yet include 65nm chips, but rather still makes use of the same 90nm technology as in all other PS3 consoles. Sony said that 65nm chips would be introduced sometime in the coming months.

So how does Sony account for the power consumption drop from 200 Watts down to a more palatable 135 Watts? Apparently it’s due to improvements and modifications on the original design.

For one thing, the 40GB PlayStation 3 no longer has to house and power any chips related to PS2 backwards-compatibility. That means that the new hardware is completely without the Emotion Engine+Graphics Synthesizer chips and memory.

The 40GB PS3 also does not include the added hardware to support a memory card reader and only has to power two USB ports rather than four, leading to a further reduction in power consumption.

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Missing the Old Games
By jodhas on 11/5/2007 1:05:08 PM , Rating: 3
I'll pay for the additional 65 watts, give me the backwards compatibility.




RE: Missing the Old Games
By mmntech on 11/5/2007 1:19:06 PM , Rating: 2
I agree. A 40gb PS3 is not worth it due to lack of quality PS3 games right now. 2008 looks bright but if you want a PS3 now and can find a 60gb model left, get it.


RE: Missing the Old Games
By deeznuts on 11/5/07, Rating: -1
RE: Missing the Old Games
By sweetsauce on 11/5/07, Rating: 0
RE: Missing the Old Games
By Murst on 11/5/2007 2:05:22 PM , Rating: 2
This has been around for a long time. I've seen plenty of Madden commercials that would make you think it was xbox only.

Its pretty normal now for a console to sponsor an ad.


RE: Missing the Old Games
By UNCjigga on 11/5/2007 2:10:29 PM , Rating: 2
That's because the Xbox 360 version of Madden '08 is the definitive version. It has the best graphics (PS3 version doesn't have all the same shader effects or the framerate/Wii version looks like original PS2 version).


RE: Missing the Old Games
By Murst on 11/5/2007 2:14:50 PM , Rating: 1
Are you serious or joking?

It has nothing to do w/ a "definitive version". EA would have been more than happy to put the PS3 logo on there if Sony paid them more than MS.


RE: Missing the Old Games
By omnicronx on 11/5/2007 2:22:45 PM , Rating: 3
The only difference between the PS3 and the 360 version is the PS3 version runs at 30FPS, while the 360 runs at 60FPS. Nothing more, nothing less. While i notice Madden 08 is a bit more smooth than Madden 07 (which runs at 30fps), I can barely notice the difference. In fact the only time I can tell is in scenes in which it is the far camera view of the stadium and the crowd, but thats essentially a cut scene, so what does it matter.

30FPS is more than enough for the average person (DVD's, TV, and almost any console game you played before your 360/PS3 runs at 30FPS or less), and most people will not even notice the difference and any small differences should only be noticeable by the trained eye.


RE: Missing the Old Games
By SavagePotato on 11/5/2007 2:44:13 PM , Rating: 2
It should also be noted that it is that way simply because EA is a poor developer, and known for bringing out lackluster ports.

It has been said that the PS3 version of call of duty 4 is graphicaly superior to the 360 version. However so far that is just talk.


RE: Missing the Old Games
By omnicronx on 11/5/2007 3:23:03 PM , Rating: 2
It was not like EA has bad programmers. Ea markets their products to every console, so it only made sense for them to mainly develop the console with the most fanfare. The cell is a lot harder to code for, so EA decided to not waste the time, and focus on the product which potentially has more buyers. with more than twice as many 360's out there than ps3's, it just makes good business sense.

As for COD4, that just does not make sense to me, as it is an EA game and contradicts the reasonings for them not wanting to spend more time on their sports titles.

There is no reason to believe that EA coded COD4 for the ps3, and then ported it to the 360. Especially when the common practice has been the exact opposite.


RE: Missing the Old Games
By edpsx on 11/5/2007 3:56:44 PM , Rating: 2
According to all reviews that I have read and all the different tech/game sites this appears to be the case with COD4. Made for ps3, ported to the 360. We'll find out tomorrow when people start getting it home.


RE: Missing the Old Games
By omnicronx on 11/5/2007 4:04:26 PM , Rating: 2
I just read up on it. COD4 has no ports, it was simultaniously developed for PC, 360 and ps3 at the same time. It sounds like the big news was not that the ps3 was superior, but that for once it is on par with the 360, and not merely a lately coded port.


RE: Missing the Old Games
By omnicronx on 11/5/2007 4:11:09 PM , Rating: 2
To follow up on that it was previously reported the ps3 version would only run at 30fps with no AA, where as the 360 version runs at 60fps with AA. Now it is reported that this is not true, and they will both run at 60fps w/AA. I guess we will only know for sure when both game are released. I played the online demo for 360 and i was blown away, I can't wait..


RE: Missing the Old Games
By Murst on 11/5/2007 4:12:47 PM , Rating: 2
All things being equal, if CoD is exactly the same on the PS3 and 360, I'd prob go for the 360 version (if I had both systems). Until the PSN gets an update where you can chat w/ friends in-game, the 360 would just seem better.

PS3 is rumored to receive the 2.0 firmware upgrade in the next week or two, and that may be one of the issues addressed.


RE: Missing the Old Games
By SavagePotato on 11/5/2007 4:21:34 PM , Rating: 2
EA is a company that is very hard to defend.

They devour talent, not foster it.

Maybe under the leadership of a new CEO things will improve but there is little to discuss about EA's ability to deliver a quality product. I'm some of their divisions fare better than others. For example the development of Crysis versus the development of the abysmally poor battlefield series.

The thing about sports titles is they are on a deadline moreso than a title like Crysis or Call of duty. They are expected to and are shooting to churn out a new Madden, or a new NHL or what have you each and every year come hell or high water. The quality of those games is definitely something that has been of debate.


RE: Missing the Old Games
By afkrotch on 11/6/2007 12:18:07 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
There is no reason to believe that EA coded COD4 for the ps3, and then ported it to the 360. Especially when the common practice has been the exact opposite.


Ummm.....Infinity Ward developed the COD4 and Activision is the publisher. What does COD4 had to do with EA? EA doesn't own either company.


RE: Missing the Old Games
By Locutus465 on 11/5/2007 1:56:05 PM , Rating: 2
Sony still needs absolutly stellar exclusive games in order to seriously move the PS3 at it's current price point which is something that they seem to lack (or at least this seems to be the general consensus). Heck, for Microsoft to beat nintendo they needed Halo, and the 360 isn't priced all that far from the Wii (on the low end).


RE: Missing the Old Games
By GhandiInstinct on 11/5/2007 1:19:17 PM , Rating: 2
Why are you bent over backwards for the whole BC fad?

Think for yourself for a moment, what is the point of buying a PS3 to play PS2/PS1 games on it? Old, bad looking games that you can emulate on your PC or play on a $100 PS2.

You're buying the PS3 for many other reasons than playing Syphon Filter.

I don't see the logic.


RE: Missing the Old Games
By Locutus465 on 11/5/2007 1:28:47 PM , Rating: 3
One of the biggest draws for the Wii is the fact that you can play every Nintendo game back to the orginal NES (yes I've played super mario bros. on my 50" HD-TV)... Different gamers have different requirements, for some BC is very important, it's a huge value add feature and something that Nintendo can now hold over Sony & Microsofts heads.


RE: Missing the Old Games
By Etsp on 11/5/2007 1:47:20 PM , Rating: 2
Not every Nintendo game sadly. Only ones they release. I'm still waiting for any kind of Mega-man game to be released =(


RE: Missing the Old Games
By Locutus465 on 11/5/2007 1:53:40 PM , Rating: 2
True, they're working on the cataloge... I my self am waiting for Mario 3, perhaps for the holidays... But still, better BC than the 40GB PS3 which is the PS3 priced with in closest reach to the mass market.


RE: Missing the Old Games
By Murst on 11/5/2007 2:08:57 PM , Rating: 2
Mario 3 was released on VC today.

BTW, what Nintendo is doing w/ VC is nice, but Sony also allows you to purchase PS1 games via PSN.

I own both Wii and PS3, and I actually like the way Sony is going much more than what Nintendo is doing. I'm really excited for games like LittleBigPlanet. Good (emphasis on good) new IP will always be better than re-releasing old games.


RE: Missing the Old Games
By Locutus465 on 11/5/2007 2:21:34 PM , Rating: 2
I suppose I could see that POV... Personally my preference is for being able to play the old games with the older graphics, new games should use the newer hardware/os. Thankfully due to the design of the Wii mote you could still make a NES style side scroller type game that would work very well using the new system, and adding a motion detection kick (a-la paper mario).

There is deffonetly merit to what you're saying though.


RE: Missing the Old Games
By Murst on 11/5/2007 2:32:04 PM , Rating: 2
Oh, I like being able to play older games as well. I've spent hours playing Mario Kart and SMW on the Wii (I forgot the location of one of the worlds though - and I thought it had it mastered!).

I probably would have never played SMW or Mario Kart if it wasn't for the Wii.

There's just so much more potential for VC though than just re-releasing old games. I'm sure we'll see original content soon, and hopefully the focus will switch to that (there's also the fact that nintendo can only re-release so many of the older games... eventually they'll be done with the relevant portion of the libraries for older consoles).


RE: Missing the Old Games
By Murst on 11/5/2007 2:33:36 PM , Rating: 2
Err.. I wouldn't have played Mario Kart and SMW again if it wasn't for the Wii.

I should really use the preview feature more... or maybe not.


RE: Missing the Old Games
By Locutus465 on 11/5/2007 2:36:57 PM , Rating: 2
Perhaps add a new console called "Wii Mini-Game" or some such, reserved for games to light to merit being published on DVD... Akin to XBA.


RE: Missing the Old Games
By BansheeX on 11/6/2007 12:37:00 AM , Rating: 2
If you wanted to, you could play any NES or SNES game on your PS3 through emulation on its linux platform. Kind of beats Nintendo's VC model for retro gaming, doesn't it?


RE: Missing the Old Games
By omnicronx on 11/5/2007 2:14:57 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Different gamers have different requirements, for some BC is very important
If it's so important, there should be no problem shelling out the extra $100 to get the model with BC.

If someone can give me a good explanation why they think they should not be paying more money, for what specifically makes the console cost more money, then maybe I will change my mind.

I want a 399 PS3, period! Many others would agree this is much more important for sony than BC will ever be.. Sony must see it, as they flip flopped from their previous position pretty quickly. Something must have changed their minds.


RE: Missing the Old Games
By Murst on 11/5/2007 2:17:25 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Something must have changed their minds

I have a feeling we'll see that something on November's sales charts.


RE: Missing the Old Games
By mikefarinha on 11/5/2007 4:29:25 PM , Rating: 2
The software emulation of the PS2 already exists for the PS3 (in accounting terms it's a sunk cost). The only cost for Sony would be the extra 16MB of storage space (or however large the software is).

My personal opinion is that it would be in Sony's best interest to release backwards compatibility for the $399 unit as an online purchase. I think this would make very good business sense by allowing people to invest in the PS3 now, and 'upgrade' their system at a later date for a small cost.

I agree that backwards compatibility is more of a value-added feature rather than a core feature, but I think that it is a very strong value-added feature.

Like-wise I hope that Nintendo releases some sort of $20 DVD option to the Wii so that I can watch movies on it. It is obviously capable of watching movies it just needs to be enabled via software.

On the other hand if Nintendo releases a new Wii that plays movies and doesn't give me the option to upgrade my existing Wii, I'd be pissed! (but probably not too pissed since it wouldn't change my current setup, and also I'll probably be upgrading to HD-DVD which wouldn't be an option on my existing Wii anyways. But I'd still feel a little cheated.)


RE: Missing the Old Games
By Murst on 11/5/2007 4:36:39 PM , Rating: 3
This is not very easily doable.

Sure, some things were software emulated, but not everything. The 40GB PS3 is now missing the graphics synthesizer and some specialized memory that was required for PS2 emulation.

Theoretically, Sony could probably even emulate these via the CPU + GPU, but it certainly isn't a "sunk cost" as Sony would have to devote considerable resources to make this happen.


RE: Missing the Old Games
By mles1551 on 11/5/2007 3:25:20 PM , Rating: 2
I've also played Super Mario Brothers on my HDTV, but I played it on a NES.

What's the need for BC? What did you people do with your old systems? I've still got my Super NES and my launch day PS2 that works as good as new.


RE: Missing the Old Games
By Locutus465 on 11/5/2007 4:44:21 PM , Rating: 2
Playing on the Wii basically gives me a Wireless NES controller... To me that makes it a nicer experience.


RE: Missing the Old Games
By Locutus465 on 11/5/2007 4:45:58 PM , Rating: 2
Also, I don't need to keep an NES & SNES & N64 & GC & Wii & X-box 360 all hooked into my entertainment center... That's kind of ungly/messy... All those nintendo systems get squished into a single box, so I'm just down to that and the 360... Those + all 4 controllers for each is about all I can stand to see sitting in my entertainment center.


RE: Missing the Old Games
By michal1980 on 11/5/2007 4:54:32 PM , Rating: 1
the Wii is only BC with Gamecube.

Its not B.C. with snes/nes/n64 etc. Your re-buying the software again. and it was easy to do b.c. with the gamecube since the wii is a great locking overclocked gamecube with a new controller


RE: Missing the Old Games
By Murst on 11/5/2007 5:33:37 PM , Rating: 2
It appears DT has hardcoded your posts to always start at 1 instead of 2.. at least it sure seems that way.

Doesn't matter if your post is valid (as in this case) or not. :)


RE: Missing the Old Games
By michal1980 on 11/5/2007 7:03:30 PM , Rating: 1
thats because i'm number ONE woohoo.

anyways. to claim the Wii is BC because you can buy an old game is just being stupid. or hating on sony.


RE: Missing the Old Games
By Etsp on 11/9/2007 1:48:16 PM , Rating: 2
Slight correction there, you aren't "buying" virtual console games from Nintendo, you are merely licensing them. As a result, you do not own the game and do not have the right to make backups, nor can you transfer the game from one system to another.


RE: Missing the Old Games
By AlphaVirus on 11/5/2007 1:32:12 PM , Rating: 3
Wanting BC is not a fad, its a want.

PS2 was such a major hit and that caused many people to invest over hundreds of dollars on games. I am a casual gamer and can remember buying at least 20 games over $30.

I think its more for the reason,
1. You can clear the space of where your PS2 is sitting/standing
2. You can have the better console to play your games
3. All of your Playstation games can be played on a single Playstation console


RE: Missing the Old Games
By omnicronx on 11/5/2007 2:06:18 PM , Rating: 5
Holly shit people, what do you not understand about Sony needing to cut the cost of the PS3 to compete with the 360. You are the same people the whined about price, whined about not needing a BD player, whine whine whine.

Well i have had it, BC had to go, its not needed, and only those that still have ps2's and want one unit in the room are complaining about it. Give it a rest people! If you really feel the need to play ps2 games on your ps3, then you (being the small percentage) can suck it up, and buy one of the more expensive PS3 offerings.

I just don't understand where people think the price cut came from, and i am sure Sony is still losing ton's of cash on each console sold. As this article states, its still a 90nm processor, so no savings there. The only savings are in removing BC, smaller HD, and a few USB ports, well guess what BC is for sure a big chunk of those savings.

quote:
PS2 was such a major hit and that caused many people to invest over hundreds of dollars on games. I am a casual gamer and can remember buying at least 20 games over $30.
So? I bought NES, SNES, GB games for 30+ dollars? Now do i expect my NES and SNES games to play in my Wii? Or my Gameboy games to play in my DS?

In this day and age, with hardware totally changing every console revision, its just no longer feasable to have anything more than software emulation. The only reason the wii can play GC games is because its essentially an overclocked gamecube.


RE: Missing the Old Games
By wallijonn on 11/6/2007 12:34:59 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
its still a 90nm processor, so no savings there. The only savings are in removing BC, smaller HD, and a few USB ports, well guess what?, BC is for sure a big chunk of those savings.


Then take out the HD and sell me the PS3 for $279.99, the same price as the 360 Arcade. Oh, wait, there's that whole BD thingie... So take out the ability to play BD movies and sell it to me for $280 and make sure I can save my games to internal memory.

But I bet you no one would buy it. Add a firm ware update to be able to play HD-DVD movies along with BD? Start the price at $750.

Personally, I own a PS2. I wouldn't need BC in the PS3 only because it would probably be too painful to play the games, at least the earlier PS2 games. But people who buy GoW III may want to be able to play GoW I and GoW II, just as the people who buy a 360 would like to be able to play all three Halo games. I'll probably pick up a 360 Arcade and fore go the ability to play older games.

So if Sony wants to remove the ability to play games on the PS3 and make it a stand alone BD player for $100 less, that'd be fine with me, too. Just make sure you include the remote controller with it. You can call it the BD1.


RE: Missing the Old Games
By Murst on 11/5/2007 2:11:51 PM , Rating: 4
quote:
Wanting BC is not a fad, its a want.

If you want it, then pay for it. You can still get the 80gb (and perhaps 60gb) if you want it. Sony didn't take away BC. They just made it so if you want it, you pay for it.

People who don't want it, don't have to pay for it anymore. Its a win-win for everyone, yet people somehow manage to complain anyways.


RE: Missing the Old Games
By walk2k on 11/5/2007 2:26:29 PM , Rating: 3
People are complaining on the internet?

NO WAY!

Let's face it, if you gave them a machine that prints free money when you pushed a button people would complain that they have to push a whole button.


RE: Missing the Old Games
By SavagePotato on 11/5/2007 2:41:40 PM , Rating: 3
It's a shame that backward compatibility was cut, however they have a need to compete more strongly price wise with the 360. Can't realy fault them for that unless you also fault Microsoft for releasing the stripped down core console for a lower price point.

At least in this case it doesn't hurt the capabities of PS3 games like the core systems lack of a hard drive.

I would wonder if full backward compatibility makes a comeback some day when the costs drop naturaly for the unit. It would be nice to see a slim ps3 with full backward compatibility for $199 some way down the line.

With the ps2 getting another redesign however it makes it a little less of an issue I suppose, cause that thing is totaly awesome, a tiny little ps2 for $99 bucks or whatever it is it's a tempting purchase, no wonder it's still selling so well.


RE: Missing the Old Games
By aos007 on 11/5/2007 6:14:56 PM , Rating: 2
You are missing one big thing that a standalone PS2 won't do - that is, upsample /antialias the PS1 and PS2 games. This definitely makes a difference, especially on PS1 games. Due to all-digital connection you are also going to get better picture than PS1 for sure (PS2 is debatable).

There are benefits to using PS2 standalone though - one, much less power is used to play games especially with new slim PS2. Two, new slim PS2 is silent. PS3 definitely isn't.


RE: Missing the Old Games
By mikefarinha on 11/5/2007 2:32:54 PM , Rating: 2
This is like saying that HD-DVD or Blu-ray players should only play their respective formats since if you really wanted to watch your old DVD's you can simply watch them with your existing player...

I am sorry that this logic eludes you.

New technology can breath new life into existing media. Just like newer players can do upscale conversions of DVD's, emulation can improve the sharpness and quality of past 3D games... also other enhancements can be brought through with emulation such as save states.


RE: Missing the Old Games
By michal1980 on 11/5/2007 2:52:21 PM , Rating: 1
wait, my n64 cart doesn't fit inside this wii, where do I put it again?

err, my snes cart doesn't work in my n64. ughh.

some people just like to bash sony.


RE: Missing the Old Games
By omnicronx on 11/5/2007 3:36:26 PM , Rating: 2
Apples to Oranges buddy...

If you wanted to ball park it, and being very nice to the BC crowd, maybe 30% of all console users care about BC as they bought their new console to play new games. If they wanted to only play old games, then there would be no reason of buying a new console.

On the other hand how many people do you think care about DVD compatibility in Next-Gen players... *watches as everyone raises their hand*

For comparison, lets imagine if your new portable stereo did not contain a cassette deck.. sure some would be annoyed, but most would not care. Now imagine if that same player had no CD player..


RE: Missing the Old Games
By Murst on 11/5/2007 3:50:52 PM , Rating: 2
People still use CDs?

Wow.


Backward Compatibility
By SavagePotato on 11/5/2007 1:03:22 PM , Rating: 2
Well for one it doesn't have to power the emotion engine and graphics chip for ps2 backward compatibility. How much of a savings that provides in power is anyones guess.




RE: Backward Compatibility
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 11/5/2007 1:25:18 PM , Rating: 2
If anyone has the power draw total for the PS2, post it. I'm betting that the PS2's power draw will be 60-80 more than the saved power on the PS3.


RE: Backward Compatibility
By caqde on 11/5/2007 1:41:10 PM , Rating: 3
According to this the slim models used ~45W when they came out (US Version)

http://playstation.about.com/od/hardwareandaccesso...

While this states that is uses around 30W while playing a game and 23W while doing Nothing. I'm Guessing 45W is taken around the time that the system is turned on.

http://www.dxgaming.com/?p=6&page=4


RE: Backward Compatibility
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 11/5/2007 2:13:26 PM , Rating: 2
Hmmmm, unless the slim was using more power effecient chips then I'm not sure what else they removed to save power.


RE: Backward Compatibility
By Murst on 11/5/2007 2:22:18 PM , Rating: 2
There's a few things that come to mind. I'm sure there was some draw from the media readers.

Also, just because its still 90nm, it certainly doesn't mean that its not more power efficient. Processors do get newer revisions, which also may explain some of the delta (although I've not heard about any cell revision).

In any case, its a good thing. I wish my 60gb consumed 30% less power.


on ps3
By meepstone on 11/5/07, Rating: 0
RE: on ps3
By walk2k on 11/5/2007 2:34:09 PM , Rating: 2
The PS3 has not been $600 for a long time.


RE: on ps3
By omnicronx on 11/5/2007 2:38:04 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
Yes, i'll be waiting a while for them to get their shit together but, who isn't?
What exactly do you think they are doing here? I am not really a Sony fan by any sense, but I can't help but ask, what are you waiting for? A jet engine? seeker missile capabilities like the ones outlined for the ps2? Or are you just waiting for your ps3 to turn into Optimus Prime so that you can help save the earth?

Other than added DVR capabilities, I see no need for Sony to make any other revisions. They have a low and a high pricepoint just like the 360, and are now ready to compete..
Now if only some games would come out...


RE: on ps3
By Locutus465 on 11/5/2007 2:40:33 PM , Rating: 2
A fully functional PS3 including BC priced with in reach of the average consumer?


RE: on ps3
By meepstone on 11/5/2007 2:56:45 PM , Rating: 1
A ps3 with everything included that isnt $600. yes i could buy one for $500 but i dont usually go out and buy things on impsulse because OH MY GOD THE PRICE DROPPED I MUST BUY NOW OR IT WILL BE TOO LATE.


RE: on ps3
By SavagePotato on 11/5/2007 4:28:02 PM , Rating: 2
I did, actually I am glad I did too. Cause I got the fully compatible 60gb ps3 for $500.

Those aren't made anymore, I guess it's too late.


Smells like an Orphan...
By jskirwin on 11/5/2007 2:37:38 PM , Rating: 2
Many moons ago, probably before many of you were born I purchased a system that became an orphan about a year afterward - leaving me with no cartridges to buy. Since then I've been very wary of being stuck with an orphan system again.

I'm not a fan boy, but I have over 50 PS2 games. I have an upgraded rig for some of the must-have PC games coming out this Fall/Winter (e.g. Crysis, Mercenaries 2) so I won't be buying any next gen system until next summer at the earliest. The only must-have game I've seen on the PS3 is the new Ratchet & Clank (Heavenly Sword could be - but it's far too short).

PS3 vs. 360: Which smells more like an orphan - or are you safe with either system?




RE: Smells like an Orphan...
By Brockway on 11/6/2007 3:18:27 AM , Rating: 2
Microsoft and Sony have sunk far too much money to just cut their losses and run. Both are going to try to ride this generation out for as long as they can to get their entertainment divisions back in the green (or finally into the green in MS's case.)

Wii seems the most likely to be "orphaned" first, replaced by another system thats actually HD. People always complain about the PS3 lacking games, what about the Wii? Its got Wii Sports, Metroid Prime, RE4, and in a few days Mario Galaxy. 1 good 3rd party game, thats just an upgrade of the gamecube original. SSB should be awesome, but where the heck are the 3rd parties, huh? The Wii only has a 2 game attach rate! Developers seem to think Wii-ites only want stupid mini-games and ports.


"Well, we didn't have anyone in line that got shot waiting for our system." -- Nintendo of America Vice President Perrin Kaplan











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