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Blue box sales are nearly doubling red box sales  (Source: Warner Home Video)
Many more Spartans marching on Blu-ray Disc

Warner was proud to announce last week that its CGI-heavy film “300” is the fastest selling high-definition movie yet. What the movie studio did not reveal was the breakdown between the two formats.

Market research firms, however, were glad to share their findings of the exact split between Blu-ray Disc and HD DVD version of “300.” According to the Hollywood Reporter, sales charts from Nielsen VideoScan First Alert put the Blu-ray Disc product outselling its HD DVD counterpart by roughly 2-to-1.

The split between the versions closely follow the current market trend of there being twice as many Blu-ray discs sold as compared to HD DVD.

Despite the sales being greater for the Blu-ray version, it is the HD DVD product that is the more feature-laden of the two. Found only on the HD DVD version is the “Bluescreen Picture-in-Picture Version” of the film and other web-enabled features.

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Why buy when ya can rent?
By kusala on 8/13/2007 11:09:47 AM , Rating: 5
This may seem like a dumb question but do they keep track of rentals?

I have never bought a BR or HD title. Seems pointless to buy a movie.




RE: Why buy when ya can rent?
By Spoelie on 8/13/2007 11:20:45 AM , Rating: 1
Is it total sold since release or the current ratio of sales? Since the Blu-Ray version came out first, it wouldn't be all that surprising if it was the former.


RE: Why buy when ya can rent?
By rninneman on 8/13/2007 11:37:35 AM , Rating: 4
You may want to check your sources; they both came out on July 31st.

Blu-Ray: http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/releasedates_histo...
HD-DVD: http://hddvd.highdefdigest.com/releasedates_histor...

Denial is not going to make HD-DVD win. (Although, both formats have sold enough software that the studios have made their investment in the formats back already so both are probably here to stay. Now the hardware manufacturers have to do the same.)


RE: Why buy when ya can rent?
By steven975 on 8/13/2007 2:46:35 PM , Rating: 1
with blockbuster putting out ONE COPY PER STORE in most places, renting is not an option.


RE: Why buy when ya can rent?
By kusala on 8/14/2007 9:22:14 AM , Rating: 2
Oh I do not use in store I use Netflix.


Blu-Ray 300 still outstripping HD DVD 300
By Jimmybones on 8/13/2007 1:10:57 PM , Rating: 2
It is funny how people come out and defend one product over the other. This being said I own neither a Blu-Ray capable device or HD DVD.

Amazon still has the Blu-Ray 300 in the top 10 and HD DVD continues to fall now down to 16th.

So, even if 100% of the stores in America were out of 300, I would expect to see the HD DVD topping the Blu-Ray charts at Amazon. This hasn't happened.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/dvd

Personally, I just want on format and cheap discs. Heck I'd settle for a decent combo player that was priced under $300.




RE: Blu-Ray 300 still outstripping HD DVD 300
By elmikethemike on 8/13/2007 1:35:52 PM , Rating: 2
What's even funnier is the BluRay version is less expensive than the HD DVD version on Amazon.

So I guess the HD fanboys can throw that argument right out the window.


RE: Blu-Ray 300 still outstripping HD DVD 300
By blaster5k on 8/13/2007 3:13:10 PM , Rating: 2
Who knows why it's listed as more expensive. There's any number of reasons. The cost of making the disc itself is still lower.


RE: Blu-Ray 300 still outstripping HD DVD 300
By Guyver on 8/13/2007 4:49:43 PM , Rating: 3
The reason why the HD-DVD version is "more expensive" is because it adds a standard defintion DVD layer to be played on standard DVD players.


By blaster5k on 8/13/2007 11:21:21 PM , Rating: 2
I didn't realize it was a combo disc. My bad.


By JimFear on 8/14/2007 7:42:42 AM , Rating: 2
Seems silly though, most people would then buy the normal DVD instead of a more expensive HD-DVD/DVD combo, like an article on DT has said, most people don't even realise what their consoles can do in regards to HD, if peopel are that clueless about a console they're likely to be just as confused about the rest of the hardware available to them.

I suppose the only benefit the dual format discs have is when people don't realise the difference and buy the HD-DVD version when they only have a DVD player, that and possibly those who understand what HD is and will buy a HD-DVD player in the future and don't want to have to buy a chunk of their library again.

Either way this whole HD debacle is a right mess, as most camps now support both formats I think I'll just stick with BR for the moment unless something REALLY gets my juices going in the HD-DVD camp.


HD vs BR
By elmikethemike on 8/13/2007 1:31:24 PM , Rating: 5
1.) When I bought 300 on BluRay, there were plenty of HD DVD versions on shelves right next to it.

2.) The HD DVD version might have more features, but if anyone here thinks that's a valid reason to choose one format over the other in general, you're flat out silly. I mean, you HD DVD fans make it sound as if BR is incapable of any extra content at all. There is plenty of extra content on the BR version of 300. But in any event, who really cares?? People want the movie, not some silly PiP option. Honestly, are you that proud of HD DVD for including that? lol

3.) Both the BR and HD version were selling for the exact same price at best buy when I bought them - $30. Big whoop.

4.) Most Ps3 users are aware that their machine can play blu-ray. I mean, there's a giant blu-ray logo right on the box, so unless you're blind, you know what it can do. The real issue or question is how many PS3 owners have an HDTV to make playing a BluRay movie worth it?

5.) Face it, BluRay is doing better than HD DVD. No amount of misinformation on DailyTech's forum is going to change that. So fanboys can try and spin everyone's posts to their favor, but you're all looking pretty silly doing it.

6.) I had the HD DVD addon for the 360, but I sold both of them in favor for a Toshiba HD DVD standalone player. If anyone here thinks the 360 and its addon compares to the PS3's BluRay player, you are 100% dead wrong. The PS3 is immensely better as a player. Just try it out forself.




RE: HD vs BR
By omnicronx on 8/13/2007 1:47:20 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Most Ps3 users are aware that their machine can play blu-ray. I mean, there's a giant blu-ray logo right on the box, so unless you're blind, you know what it can do. The real issue or question is how many PS3 owners have an HDTV to make playing a BluRay movie worth it?

You would think so, go look at previous DT articles, one last week outlined how only 40% of ps3 owners knew what the bd player did, or knew they even had one. You wouldnt believe how many people play their ps3/360/wii on a CRT TV, or use the analogue rca (y/r/w) cables on their fancy LCD TV.


RE: HD vs BR
By elmikethemike on 8/13/2007 1:50:59 PM , Rating: 2
I figure most users DONT have a HDTV to experience full on high definition content. But that doesn't mean they don't know what each console is capable of.

The article should have been about the current lack of HDTVs in most households.


RE: HD vs BR
By JimFear on 8/14/2007 7:44:54 AM , Rating: 3
Most owners = men

Men don't need to read those nancy fancy instruction manuals, we just plug it in and shout when it doesn't work :)


What about the price difference?
By steven975 on 8/13/07, Rating: 0
RE: What about the price difference?
By omnicronx on 8/13/2007 1:51:35 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
IMO, I think Universal and Warner are using HD-DVD owners as guinea pigs for the combo format. I think that when they perfect them (almost there) they will just outright replace DVD with HD-DVD/DVD combos. If that happens, Blu-Ray's future will be in question.

you should seek a job at toshiba, seems like their marketing department needs a bit of help. And with DVD compatability not in the BD spec, (unless the manufacturer chooses to add it) you would think Sony would be hardpressed to do the same thing.

Great post!


By steven975 on 8/13/2007 2:42:10 PM , Rating: 3
There's lots of speculation at AVS that the Combo will replace DVD for Universal and possibly Warner.

Then there's the TotalHD hybrid disc that Warner is offering the IP for FREE to anyone wanting to use it.

Then there's the hybrid players. The BD manufacturers can't make money (Sony undercuts them) so slowly they are moving to combo players to differentiate themselves.

Either of these 3 will keep HD-DVD around. TWO of the three will probably propel it to the win.


RE: What about the price difference?
By Loc13 on 8/13/2007 3:52:19 PM , Rating: 2
So how many people out there have both HD DVD and Blu-Ray players? And how many people would decide to buy a blu-ray player to watch 300 in HD just because the blu-ray version is $5 cheaper but the player itself $200 more expensive?

Your logic is flawed. The price of the disk doesn't determine which format sells more.


RE: What about the price difference?
By steven975 on 8/13/2007 3:56:58 PM , Rating: 2
No my point has nothing to do with players.

As the price of a disc rises, more of your POTENTIAL market opts not to buy the product. Basic economics.

I have both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray as do many of the enthusiasts (not fanboys) on AVS. Many of them opted for the BD purely because of price. Do not underestimate pricing as a factor in demand.


By masher2 (blog) on 8/13/2007 4:02:03 PM , Rating: 2
I also own players of both formats. Usually, I'll buy HD-DVD because I prefer region-unlocked discs, but if given a choice between the pricey HD-DVD combo discs and Blu-Ray, I tend to pick BD.

In the case of "300", though, I still went HD-DVD because of the special features not present in the BD version. The PiP bluescreen feature on the HD-DVD version is worth the extra cost alone.


As a side note
By soulbabel on 8/13/2007 3:21:42 PM , Rating: 2
I have both a PS3 and the 360 with HD-DVD addon. I've had the PS3 since December, and the addon drive since February. I find myself preferring to purchase bluray movies, mainly because that antiscratch coating is pretty effective in my experience. As I'm building a movie collection, it's nice to know that it's that much more durable. When I rent blu-ray and hd-dvd movies from Netflix, I always check the surface, and blu-ray movies look brand new everytime. It plays a major contrast against the scratched up DVDs I'll usually get from Netflix.




RE: As a side note
By TomZ on 8/13/2007 4:04:01 PM , Rating: 2
Blu-ray discs require that coating because their data layer is closer to the surface compared to HD-DVD. An HD-DVD disc may be more scratched than a BD, but more data might be lost on the BD. The point is, you can't judge the data integrity based on the scratches you see.


RE: As a side note
By steven975 on 8/13/2007 4:16:02 PM , Rating: 2
also, if a studio wishes to use the coating on HD-DVD, they can. It is not a Sony invention or anything.


RE: As a side note
By soulbabel on 8/13/2007 7:36:26 PM , Rating: 2
I'm saying I don't see scratches at all though, on these Netflix blu-ray rentals. I guess the data can be corrupted by other means, but in terms of daily wear and tear, these discs seem to be pretty durable. I suppose I may have a false sense of security, but if someone can show me an HD-DVD that can get scraped by steel wool and remain playable, then I'd gladly disregard it as a selling point. (And please don't be like, "well, the HD-DVD side is toast, but you can flip it over and play the DVD side of it.")


Forgot To Mention That...
By IcY18 on 8/13/2007 11:30:11 AM , Rating: 4
That DVD outsold both, most likely atleast 5:1




LOL @ fanboys
By ZipSpeed on 8/13/2007 2:30:30 PM , Rating: 2
Its quite amusing watching HD-DVD fanboys duke it out with their Blu-ray counterparts, and vice versa. Both formats aren't going anywhere any time soon. And until we see the day where both formats tread into DVD territory and actually gains marketshare that is greater than a few percentage points, both will remain in the niche. IMO, the future of this hi-def war lies with combo players. Much like how DVD-R and DVD+R turned out.




RE: LOL @ fanboys
By geddarkstorm on 8/13/2007 3:33:23 PM , Rating: 2
Most probably. What's interesting about all this is it's living economics experiment in the making. Quite fascinating to watch the market change and evolve in response to all these different pros and cons on each side--which factors are most important in the end?


Answered Already
By bkm32 on 8/13/2007 11:24:06 AM , Rating: 2
I posted this last week. What gives?

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=8355&...




This is a ridiculous "war"
By MattCoz on 8/13/2007 3:13:50 PM , Rating: 2
What's the point of arguing about these formats? Honestly, I don't see a scenario where either one wins completely over the other. There's absolutely no reason for it to happen. Going forward there will be three ways of getting your movies: HD-DVD, Blu-ray, and digital distribution. The beautiful thing is, that could all be done on the same player(the 360 is 2/3 of the way there). Hardware manufacturers need to focus on getting that done at a reasonable price, then we can get back to movies being about entertainment and not hardware loyalty.




Oh Well...
By blaster5k on 8/13/2007 3:40:22 PM , Rating: 2
I still think HD-DVD is in a good position with their standalone players as cheap as they are. It looks like they'll be under $200 by Christmas and competing with the prices you see on DVD players, making them a very compelling option. And honestly, I just want to see cheap HD players ASAP.




By Guyver on 8/13/2007 4:33:02 PM , Rating: 2
I recently read that 25% of all American homes have an HDTV. Of that, only 1% of all HDTV owners actually have a HD player.

So with this 2:1 sales ratio Blu-Ray discs have over HD-DVD, who really cares? I don't care which way things go, but let's not blow things out of proportion. This is a small format war at best. Blu-Ray and HD-DVD sales combined just recently exceeded VHS sales. Is THAT really a newsworthy milestone?




By JackBurton on 8/13/2007 4:59:39 PM , Rating: 2
Well that's the only reason I can come up with why Amazon shipped my 300 HD-DVD/DVD combo over a week after it came out. I ordered it the day of, or a day before the movie was released and I STILL don't have it yet. :|




Uh huh
By Polynikes on 8/13/2007 7:46:38 PM , Rating: 2
I hope you guys who give a crap about which format wins are enjoying all these useless articles about who's selling more.




i'm betting that
By bigpow on 8/13/2007 7:57:30 PM , Rating: 2
300 "the internet version" beats all DVD, HD-DVD and BD sales total!




By Rampage on 8/14/2007 9:11:27 PM , Rating: 2
Just checked the #1 retailer in the worlds website and it appears that the HD version has sold out online, while the BluRay is still in stock.

I bought the HD version even though I only have a DVD player.

I'm a online content distribution fanboy, and buy very few hard copies of movies. I only buy my favorite movies which amounts to a total of 8 copies that I own.

Most next-gen HD disc fanboys are Sony fanboys who want something else pro-Sony to rant about. Or anti-Sony fanboys who want something else anti-sony to rant about.
Thats truth.

The average person will benefit most from online content distribution. Either through your Xbox or cable box.
Shiny discs of all kinds are completely silly, and very 1990s. Its another way for hardware distributors with smaller internet infrastructures like Sony/Toshiba to push out yet one more hard disc format.

I'm not going to be a fanboy for what is counter-intuitive to the real future- online distribution.




This is correct!
By Yaos on 8/13/07, Rating: -1
RE: This is correct!
By michal1980 on 8/13/07, Rating: -1
Stop linking to those flawed, uncorrected articles.
By CZroe on 8/13/07, Rating: -1
By steven975 on 8/13/2007 1:31:16 PM , Rating: 1
Which player are you talking about? They all have only ONE decoder. To refute this I want a player model along with the model of the decoder chip.

Some BD movies have a PiP experience, but it is not really a PiP feature. They do a WHOLE SEPARATE VESION OF THE MOVIE on the disc with the second picture in the frame. That isn't the same thing as PiP. It's a space-wasting workaround due to the lack of processing horsepower in the players. It's the same reason they use PCM.

Profile 1.1 makes the 2 decoders mandatory which opens the door to PiP content. The only current player that MIGHT be upgradable is the PS3; all the others have only one decoder and firmware won't magically add another.


By michal1980 on 8/13/2007 1:47:34 PM , Rating: 4
Space wasting for lpcm?
lack of processing power?

frank pip for movies, ok its cool, but it doesnt sell a movie, people buy movies for the movies, rarely for the extra features.

if we are going to cast wide nets. at least with spec 1.1 both video streams will be hi-def. try that hd-dvd./

as for lpcm, blu-ray can handle all the other audio formats as well...

its hd-dvd that would probably choke on an lpcm stream because it doesnt have the bandwidth to play it.


By steven975 on 8/13/2007 2:34:02 PM , Rating: 2
no, TrueHD is an optional part of the Blu-Ray spec. That's the reason LPCM is used. It's purely there as a workaround to get around that very issue.

Frankly I don't see the reason for HD PiP. Since the second window is 400 lines max why make it HD?


By PMChris on 8/13/2007 5:27:16 PM , Rating: 3
Because you could give the user a choice for which one gets to be the big window.


By CZroe on 8/13/2007 6:30:03 PM , Rating: 2
No, LPCM is mandatory in both for the same reason it is in DVD: You may not have the hardware needed to decode anything else. You will point out TrueHD decoding is mandatory in HD-DVD, but remember the XBOX 360 exception? That's why LPCM is still required. Also, it is royalty-free while TrueHD is not. Space is at a premium on HD-DVD, so it only makes sense that they try to reduce it by making lossless compression standard.

You see, a DVD might just as well have DD and DTS tracks, but what will you do if you do not have a DD or DTS receiver? You need stereo LPCM. Just because Blu-Ray ups it to 7.1 channel stereo LPCM and it is every bit equal to 7.1 TrueHD lossless from the same source does not mean that requiring it is reactionary: The requirement can be met with a base-line 2-channel track with all premium audio tracks in other optional formats. It's the base-line compatibility and is NO DIFFERENT from the way things are done on DVD (you don't support the audio format, you fall back to stereo). LPCM is the same as waveform audio (WAV) and CD audio, only it is in a filesystem/muxed stream when used here.

I always had to fall back to stereo when available on my laptop when playing DVDs because DD/DTS AC3 tracks were just too low. When encoding for my portable media center, if I didn't have a 2.0 stereo track available, I had to convert and amplify a DD/DTS track.I hope this clears it up.


By CZroe on 8/13/2007 2:20:53 PM , Rating: 2
To refute what? Do you know what "may" means? I said that some players MAY support it, but we wont know until the movies supporting it arrive. Why wouldn't they advertise it? For one, if the movies aren't there and support is optional, they may want to leave it cooking in the oven until Profile 1.1 players bring out the studio support and they can test compatibility. Also, SOFTWARE can decode the secondary video stream. If you don't fully expect the PS3 to support it when the movies arrive (or with the very next significant FW update), then you must know something we don't. I'm not saying that it will, there's just no reason not to expect a powerful CPU with cycles to spare to not be put to use decoding the second SD vid stream.

Yes, I touched on simulated IME plenty. Guess what? The Descent used BD J and STILL used simulated IME and MPEG2. Clearly, even the early mastering software had BD J support.

"Decoder" does not always mean something physical that you can firmly state is not present in the current crop of players. It was widely reported that the Samsung player had a 3.4GHz Pentium 4 inside. Sure, BD will tax that CPU a lot, but decoding SD doesn't take much at all. Any spare cycles could be put to use on PiP and, if they can squeeze it in, they just might.

I have no doubt that at least one current Profile 1.0 player will support PiP with or possibly without an update (PS3) Even so, I'm very curious to know if all current players will need post-Profile 1.1 updates to support PiP. Perhaps it's been silently added with one of many past updates or available from day 1. because support is currently optional, they can leave it baking in the oven as long as they want. Of course, it doesn't hurt to advertise the feature, but it may just not be "guaranteed" yet. When P1.1 hits, if no 1.0 players ever support PiP, I wonder if the official 1.0 specs will remove that as being option (seeing as how it clearly didn't happen).


By steven975 on 8/13/2007 2:43:59 PM , Rating: 3
I believe HD-DVD players have a Dothan as well as a separate decoder chip as well (by NEC I think).

To decode 2 streams one Intel CPU won't cut it.

I do also think the PS3 will be 1.1 compliant, but none of the others out now.


By CZroe on 8/13/2007 3:54:59 PM , Rating: 2
To decode two HD streams you mean. The PiP stream is SD or below SD. Even a small amount of untapped CPU horsepower could decode that, especially if it isn't as highly compressed. Also, adding PiP doesn't make the PS3 Profile 1.1 compliant because PiP is included in the Profile 1.0 specification. It would just be adding the optional Profile 1.0 feature.

That's all I'm trying to say here. PiP/IME is not mutually exclusive with Profile 1.1.


By steven975 on 8/13/2007 4:08:02 PM , Rating: 2
I know what you mean, but IMPLEMENTED PIP in profile 1.0 does not exist and with 1.1 almost here, probably never will. Since it is an option in 1.0 and not all players support it, that means no discs will be released as it is not worth the effort.

The current BD movies with PiP are a simulated PiP with a whole separate movie title on the disc with the sub-picture built into each frame (you can't toggle it on and off). That's just like DVDs with both full and widescreen.

IMO, HD PiP is just not a necessity as the second window is too small. Also, I realize a second SD stream won't take much extra power to decode, but scaling it and mixing it into one stream probably does! The PS3 could do it I'm sure, but the others...NO WAY.


By CZroe on 8/13/2007 4:24:01 PM , Rating: 2
If it's done in software and there are no movies that use it, how do we know that the implementation doesn't exist? The reason no discs work may well be because it isn't worth redoing all teh content for only a subset of BD players. It's not like Warner has gone into the technical reasons publicly. The fact is, we are VERY CLOSE to profile 1.1 and once those players start to sell, we WILL see this feature... especially once HD-DVD is out of the picture.

Yes, I highly doubt it will be added to the majority of standalone players, though I suspect it could be added to the first-gen Samsung one *IF* the little bit of horsepower left over is enough. It's already scaling in software, so it would not be resampling with the overlaid video. If they can be simultaneously decoded, it would be written over as if it decoded and rendered from the HD stream.

And yes, simulated IME is a cheap trick, but it could easily switch between both encodes to simulate turning the feature on and off. Because the uncompressed audio track on 300 pushed it onto a BD50 dual-layer 50GB disc, there was plenty of room for a second HD encode with inlaid PiP, but it probably wasn't worth the effort even with the added expense of dual-layer BD50.


By omnicronx on 8/13/2007 2:44:34 PM , Rating: 2
May = could be = there could be 2 decoders.
There arnt, so may = wrong

BD 1.0 does not support any of the features you mention,
and although BDJ is supported in many players, they will not neccessarily support future BDJ code which is to the 1.1 spec. The ps3 is the only player that 'may' support the BD 1.1 spec, although i think it most definatly will. (or you are going to have a lot of pissed off ps3 fans)


By CZroe on 8/13/2007 4:01:46 PM , Rating: 2
From Wikipedia:
"All video-based profiles are required to have a full implementation of BD-J."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray

From AVSforum sticky:
"2. Is BD-J a requirement for all Blu-ray players?
Yes, all three Blu-ray player profiles require BD-J support and will be capable of normal BD-J interactivity for menus and games. Note though that certain extras may require features that are unique to BD-Video 1.1 or BD-Live."
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=86...

Note: Certain extras require unique features of BD-Video 1.1 or BD Live, NOT updated BD Java features/versions. "Full" means "Full." There is no BD Java specification specific to Profile 1.1 players as you imply ("support future BDJ code which is to the 1.1 spec."). There can't be: The only change made mandatory other than storage increases is a making an optional feature mandatory. For it to be optional in the 1.1 spec, it MUST exist in the 1.1 spec's version of BD Java.


By CZroe on 8/13/2007 4:05:05 PM , Rating: 2
Oh, and like I said: "MAY"
If May = "Could be" then guess what? Your logic is still flawed because you think "decoder" equates to "physical chip" if you think that you can just outright say that there aren't two decoders. Let me tell you something: The XBOX 360 has NO decoders by your logic. Somehow, it gets by with decoding a second stream in software without a second OR EVEN FIRST "decoder."

And what features did I mention that it doesn't support? Enlighten me.


By steven975 on 8/13/2007 4:11:44 PM , Rating: 2
the 360 also has 3 cores with 2 threads each. The P4s in the Blu-ray players are single threaded (or maybe hyperthreaded which I consider 1.5 thread:) )


By CZroe on 8/13/2007 4:29:13 PM , Rating: 2
But to assume that it has no extra cycles for a small SD/less than SD video is to assume that it is using the MAXIMUM amount of CPU horsepower to decode. Even if that is a problem, the second inlaid video could be of a much lower compression ratio considering the resolution. Sure, you're probably right: It probably will not happen on those players, but it's easy to see how it is at least possible. Heck, refining the playback to make it less CPU intensive to leave resources for IME could very well be why the feature might exist in an unadvertised state. There must be SOME reason why it is optional in Profile 1.0.


By CZroe on 8/13/2007 4:15:02 PM , Rating: 2
How is this supposed to get corrected if people downvote the correction just because they don't like it? Whoever did this, step back and ask yourself: Is that what the post rating feature is for? Did you downvote it because you didn't like me? Is that because I spoke in defense of a format you didn't like? Stop letting your silly format war siding control your actions. For your information, I would have corrected it no matter what side of the format war I was on.

"Please stop referencing your own flawed information without fixing it.

The BD spec for Profile 1.0 does include BD J. In fact, it allows for Picture in Picture/IME (In Movie Experience) functionality to be option. The secondary video decoder is made mandatory in Profile 1.1, but as far as we know, some players may already support it! It makes sense that Warner simply doesn't want to re-do all the IME stuff for what would only reach a subset of the current BD market. When Profile 1.1 arrives, it'll change.

The last article about this referenced an older DailyTech article that made the same misinformation the subject of the news post! In fact, this self-referential flawed information is spreading: Now Doom9.net points to DailyTech's reasoning for the 300 feature differences WITHOUT CORRECTING IT!"

Not that I haven't given sources already, but what else can I do to counter the rampant down-voting from flagrant fanboys? An error is an error and you have no entitlement to downvote just because you support one format and you don't like the news.

From Wikipedia:
"All video-based profiles are required to have a full implementation of BD-J."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray

From AVSforum sticky:
"2. Is BD-J a requirement for all Blu-ray players?
Yes, all three Blu-ray player profiles require BD-J support and will be capable of normal BD-J interactivity for menus and games. Note though that certain extras may require features that are unique to BD-Video 1.1 or BD-Live."
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=86...

Now, the only "source" claiming that BD Java is to blame is DailyTech, which is exactly why this needs to be here. Even Doom9.org links back here. Anandtech/DailyTech: If you respect journalism and have integrity, you will issue a correction.


By steven975 on 8/13/2007 4:23:48 PM , Rating: 2
I don't think I ever said BD-J wasn't in every player. I think one guy said it wasn't fully supported on each player which is correct and incorrect. In order to have "full" support on a player, IMO, the PiP option must be implementable. It is not this way with all players.

A more accurate thing to say is they all support the "core" BD-J.

I am also saying that PiP with Profile 1.0 has never been done and probably never will. 1.1 is around the corner and the studios will use it and never look back. BTW, I never rated you down.


By CZroe on 8/13/2007 4:32:26 PM , Rating: 2
That wasn't responding to you. That was responding to my own OP which was down-voted and therefore closed by default to newcomers. That's why it has a full quote. The original one was responding DIRECTLY to DailyTech's last article and the older one from spring that it links to. This one links to that one and I am simply asking them to stop linking to the flawed article AND asking that they correct it. Even Doom9.net is linking to it as fact.


HD-DVD Fanboys Cry to MAMA!!!!!
By youdosuck on 8/13/07, Rating: -1
RE: HD-DVD Fanboys Cry to MAMA!!!!!
By FITCamaro on 8/13/2007 11:29:09 AM , Rating: 2
Well considering there's about 8x as many potential Blu-ray players out there compared to HD-DVD ones, I'd say its not bad that HD-DVD only did half as many sales.

Especially considering many people are just renting the movies these days off Netflix or from Blockbuster until the prices come down.


RE: HD-DVD Fanboys Cry to MAMA!!!!!
By smitty3268 on 8/13/2007 11:41:29 AM , Rating: 2
Except that the HD-DVD camp has consistently claimed that there are more HD-DVD players actually being used to play movies, and that most of the BR players were just being used to play PS3 games.

So either: the PS3 sales matter and people are using it to play HD movies, or HD-DVD player owners just aren't buying as many movies (which really doesn't make much sense). Both options sound like bad news for one camp to me, especially considering that the HD-DVD version actually contains extra material and should be considered superior to the BR version.


RE: HD-DVD Fanboys Cry to MAMA!!!!!
By kusala on 8/13/2007 11:48:28 AM , Rating: 2
Unless they are renting them. Which makes the most sense.


By smitty3268 on 8/13/2007 12:53:08 PM , Rating: 4
Except it doesn't. Why would more HD-DVD owners be renting than BR owners? Shouldn't the ratios be equivalent? If anything, wouldn't there be more BR renters since Blockbuster has an exclusive deal with them? Or maybe I'm wrong, here, and other renters have exclusive HD-DVD deals.


RE: HD-DVD Fanboys Cry to MAMA!!!!!
By Topweasel on 8/13/2007 11:54:55 AM , Rating: 2
No. The Claim is Toshiba is selling between 3-1 to 5-1 In the standalone market (the ones used to really drive movie sales). They might all mention the small percentage of people who buy BD's for their PS3's. at 375,000-500,000 Players on the HD-DVD side and about 90,000 300's sold thats at best 25% of the people out there bought 300 on HD-DVD. At 3 Million PS'3 and 100,000-200,000 Standalones, why is their such a big rift in between the amount of people who would buy it on HD-DVD and the amount of people who would buy it on BD. At 150,000 copies sold for BD that would be only 4% bought a copy.


By Oscarine on 8/13/2007 12:02:25 PM , Rating: 2
Because the HDDVD player can only play movies, whereas the PS3 is mostly bought as a game machine. Some PS3 owners don't even own a HDTV, making it much less worthwhile for them to shell out the extra cash for the BR version when the DVD copy can at times be purchased for less than half the price.


RE: HD-DVD Fanboys Cry to MAMA!!!!!
By Keeir on 8/13/2007 12:07:12 PM , Rating: 2
In the end, its the number of software sales that makes the difference since content owners make money on software sold. No matter how its spun, its not good news for HD-DVD that the "superior" version of 300 (with DVD+HD-DVD and special features) failed to break 2:1 ratio with Blu-Ray.


RE: HD-DVD Fanboys Cry to MAMA!!!!!
By FITCamaro on 8/13/2007 12:15:32 PM , Rating: 2
There's quite a bit more than 3 million PS3s.


RE: HD-DVD Fanboys Cry to MAMA!!!!!
By Keeir on 8/13/2007 12:43:57 PM , Rating: 2
Last estimates I saw for a variety of sources indicated World-Wide PS3 sales to be around 4 million. Not sure if the 300 numbers of World-wide, English Only, or US only... (Obviously, English Only or US only would reduce the number of PS3 players significatly... probably well below 3 million)


RE: HD-DVD Fanboys Cry to MAMA!!!!!
By Spuke on 8/13/2007 1:22:57 PM , Rating: 2
You guys are hilarious LOL! All this fighting over which format is best when it REALLY doesn't matter at all. Whoever wins (if there is a winner) will be the HD format to buy and that's it. If it's Blu-ray then we'll all buy Blu-ray and if it's HD DVD then we'll all buy HD DVD.

That said, all I care about is price and I'm looking at one of those 3rd gen HD DVD's from Toshiba although it will probably be a few months before I get one. DirecTV HD is priority.


RE: HD-DVD Fanboys Cry to MAMA!!!!!
By leexgx on 8/13/2007 1:44:29 PM , Rating: 2
i not buy HD-DVD disk size to small compared to BD disks

i really wish Sony did not make BD and Toshiba did
HD-DVD would of died off alot faster

BD offers alot more size so offers better felxibity on what thay can stick on an 25gb or 50gb disk
i bet most/all titiles on HD-DVD are Dual layer 30gb disk so thay can fit HD content onto each disk as you have to consider HD-dvd single layer offers 6gb more then an DVD Dual layer disk {9gb} but BD offers 16gb more strate away

once thay come to £100 or so for an BD buner it be in my pc can start backing my video content up (most thats in Xvid 350mb or 700mb files)


By blaster5k on 8/13/2007 3:54:54 PM , Rating: 2
Meh. 30GB seems to be plenty when used effectively.


RE: HD-DVD Fanboys Cry to MAMA!!!!!
By Spuke on 8/13/2007 4:02:03 PM , Rating: 3
Blu-ray burners are WAY to expensive to even consider them for backup storage. I could a buy a NAS solution for MUCH cheaper. I've even seen SATA drive bay units where you can fit 4 drives in three 5.25" PC bays. I'd rather buy something like that. So the amount of data storage is irrelevant to me.

The only thing Blu-ray and HD DVD are good for currently are for watching movies and since price IS an issue, I chose to go the cheaper route (HD DVD).


By bplewis24 on 8/13/2007 12:35:13 PM , Rating: 1
Very typical and predictable response from you. I knew somebody was going to spin this as a positive :)

Brandon


RE: HD-DVD Fanboys Cry to MAMA!!!!!
By theflux on 8/13/2007 12:50:02 PM , Rating: 2
8X? How did you arrive at that figure, may I ask?

1.78 Million PS3s according to VG Chartz
220,000 stand alone Blu-ray players to make it nice and even (though really there are probably less)

200,000 360 Add-ons HD DVD
200,000 Stand alone HD DVD

To me that looks a lot more like 5 to 1, and like I said I doubt Blu-ray stand alone sales are even that high. Next up, the HD DVD promotions group says that the PS3 isn't even a player.


RE: HD-DVD Fanboys Cry to MAMA!!!!!
By CZroe on 8/13/2007 1:20:10 PM , Rating: 2
1.78 million PS3s is WAY off. Look at worldwide total sales.


RE: HD-DVD Fanboys Cry to MAMA!!!!!
By CZroe on 8/13/2007 1:20:36 PM , Rating: 2
I'm not saying 8x is correct though. ;)


RE: HD-DVD Fanboys Cry to MAMA!!!!!
By CZroe on 8/13/2007 1:27:06 PM , Rating: 2
Looks like 4.28 million as of June 30th. Remember, there's been a "pseudo" price-drop since then and even the $600 model is selling out online.


RE: HD-DVD Fanboys Cry to MAMA!!!!!
By theflux on 8/14/2007 11:18:00 AM , Rating: 3
Those are worldwide sales. We are looking strictly at North American sales of the movie 300. It doesn't make sense to compare the North American sales to worldwide hardware installed base since the world has no chance to purchase this movie (yet).


RE: HD-DVD Fanboys Cry to MAMA!!!!!
By omnicronx on 8/13/2007 1:22:06 PM , Rating: 2
200k standalones? try 1 million. get your numbers straight.
If you think BD standalone players have sold the same as HD-DVD standalone players you have not been reading the news.
Its only with ps3's that BD is outselling HD-DVD, otherwise the numbers would very much be in HD-DVD's favor, by a large margin.


RE: HD-DVD Fanboys Cry to MAMA!!!!!
By melgross on 8/13/2007 2:16:11 PM , Rating: 2
I doubt a million HD-DVD players have been sold. Possibly, if you include the add-on the the 360.


RE: HD-DVD Fanboys Cry to MAMA!!!!!
By omnicronx on 8/13/2007 2:32:18 PM , Rating: 2
its very close, of course you would be hard pressed to find real numbers, but toshiba expects to sell 1 million units in 2007 in north america only (which is down from 1.8 million they said before but..) So chances are worldwide sales right now are somewhere hovering around 1 million.


RE: HD-DVD Fanboys Cry to MAMA!!!!!
By michal1980 on 8/13/07, Rating: 0
By omnicronx on 8/13/2007 3:53:50 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
so with a million players just for hd-dvd they are still being outsold by blu-ray with at best 200,000 standalone players (as accounted by hd-dvd people).
What are you trying to say here? that standalone bd players are outselling HD-DVD by 200k or that total BD player sales are only 200k more.

HD-DVD standalone players are outselling their BD counterpart by a considerable margin, some say up to 3:1. (its been 60/40 month to month but hddvd also got a 6 month head start) This does not include pc drives or the xbox 360 addon. Only with the ps3 does BD outsell HD-DVD by a considerable margin. (and as the other DT article shows, maybe 20% use their console as a player)


RE: HD-DVD Fanboys Cry to MAMA!!!!!
By theflux on 8/14/2007 11:20:48 AM , Rating: 2
There is no way Toshiba has sold 1 million stand-alones. I follow the data very closely, and it isn't even close. They want to hit 1 million following the Christmas rush. Furthermore, HD DVD penetration is highest in North America. It is a joke in Japan, and I think they sold something like 8000 movies total in Europe last year. Don't spread misinformation, especially when you don't have a source.

Finally, those are worldwide sales. We are looking strictly at North American sales of the movie 300. It doesn't make sense to compare the North American sales to worldwide hardware installed base since the world has no chance to purchase this movie (yet). The numbers I listed for stand-alones and 360 add-ons are straight from the mouths of Microsoft and Toshiba. If you feel the need to spin the numbers released by the companies themselves, there isn't much hope.


By steven975 on 8/13/2007 12:22:30 PM , Rating: 1
fanboy drivel. Yes, that means you.


RE: HD-DVD Fanboys Cry to MAMA!!!!!
By Rampage on 8/14/2007 8:09:25 PM , Rating: 1
"youdosuck".. are you serious? Do we really have fanboys of next generation HD movie formats now ?

So sad and funny. Spend your time getting educated. Seriously.


HD-DVD will win
By HardwareD00d on 8/13/07, Rating: -1
RE: HD-DVD will win
By ArneBjarne on 8/13/2007 12:49:57 PM , Rating: 3
1. HD DVD uses the exact same blue laser diodes that Blu-ray does.

2. Your opinion.

3. You can make DVD/BD combo discs too, only more elegantly, since both formats can be put on the same side of the disc, so you don't need to make flip-discs like HD DVD is doing.

4. Again, your opinion, but it doesn't really matter anyway, since there are plenty of other CE manufacturers making Blu-ray players (unlike HD DVD).


RE: HD-DVD will win
By HardwareD00d on 8/13/2007 3:16:51 PM , Rating: 1
Sorry, no. HD-DVD still uses red laser diodes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HD_DVD

"The HD DVD format can also be applied to current red laser DVDs which offers a lower-cost option for distributors; this type of disc is called "3x DVD" as it is capable of up to three times the bandwidth of regular DVD-Video."

As for you people rating me negative, thanks for appreciating my opinion. I imagine all you Sony BD fanboys had to throw in your worthless 2 cents.


RE: HD-DVD will win
By masher2 (blog) on 8/13/2007 3:38:00 PM , Rating: 2
HD-DVD uses the same 405 nm blue diodes that BD does.

"3X DVD" is not HD-DVD; its a special format that allows for HD video on standard DVD discs...albeit at extremely short run times. You can't put a full-length HD film on 3X DVD.


RE: HD-DVD will win
By walk2k on 8/13/2007 4:04:41 PM , Rating: 2
Wow you need to quit while you're behind.

Both products use the exact same type of laser diode.

"3x DVD" is their name for higher speed DVD technology capable of putting HD content on "current red laser DVDs" (helps if you can actually read when you quote things...) Though it is at the cost of a 3x shorter running time. No studio in the world is going to use that format for movies since they would need to be put on 2 or 3 discs each... By the way, this technology can also be used by Blu-ray, where they call it "BD-9".


RE: HD-DVD will win
By Gatt on 8/13/2007 12:57:41 PM , Rating: 1
1. Sony will be at roughly the same price point by years end.

2. They have the exact same feature sets, but BR has more capacity. They both have support for the exact same things in spec's.

3. Completely useless feature, if you don't have an HD-DVD Player you're not going to spend the extra money just in case you get one down the road, and if you do have an HD-DVD Player the DVD side is absolutely useless to you. All of this for extra money.

4. At least you stated why you're trying to pimp HD-DVD so hard, though you probably shouldn't have tried to pass off your hatred as a "reason".


RE: HD-DVD will win
By Kefner on 8/13/2007 1:09:17 PM , Rating: 4
3. Not useless. I have only one TV with HD DVD in my house, but a few with DVD players hooked up. Plus I can watch it on a laptop that does not have a HD DVD Drive. This is a very useful feature if you ask me!


RE: HD-DVD will win
By masher2 (blog) on 8/13/2007 2:33:19 PM , Rating: 2
> "They have the exact same feature sets"

Not quite. HD-DVD includes PiP, network connectivity, and region-unlocked discs.

The BD spec is adding PiP this October (not required on players manufactured before then), and, as far as I know, has no plans to enforce a requirement for network connectivity or changes to region-locked discs.


RE: HD-DVD will win
By Gatt on 8/13/2007 11:58:30 PM , Rating: 2
You got me on the region lock.

The original specs for BR called for Networking, people screamed that it would be used for incredibly intrusive DRM. The ability is present, they didn't move forward on it, probably because of the public outcry.


RE: HD-DVD will win
By Bioniccrackmonk on 8/13/2007 1:10:50 PM , Rating: 4
I always love how people try to break down the Xbox 360 to the PS3 by price but do not list what you are FULLY getting from both camps. Based on your estimate, 299 for xbox 360, I noticed you picked the cheap one w/o the wireless controller or hard drive, plus the 179 add-on compared to the 499 PS3. With the PS3 you still get a HDD, a wireless controller and my favorite part, the built in wi-fi. So i dont have to drop another 99 bucks on proprietery wireless g usb devices. So, in my mind, based on YOUR choices for package comparisons, I see the PS3 as the winner. Now saying the PS3 is the winner is obviously my opinion, see how I stated that, but take into account teh hardware you receive with your comparisons and it would be hard to say the Xbox 360 is the winner.


RE: HD-DVD will win
By Flunk on 8/13/2007 1:27:42 PM , Rating: 1
The $179 HD DVD add0n is only a low price option if you already have a xbox 360 or a computer capable of decodeing the movies.


RE: HD-DVD will win
By eyebeeemmpawn on 8/13/2007 2:22:53 PM , Rating: 2
By your logic:

I already own a PS3, therefore my HD Movie upgrade cost=$0


RE: HD-DVD will win
By omnicronx on 8/13/2007 2:35:03 PM , Rating: 1
and amazingly you paid around the same price for your ps3 unless you got your ps3 for 499? so you are right upgrade cost = $0, original cost = $180 more! yay for math!


RE: HD-DVD will win
By JasonMick (blog) on 8/13/2007 1:33:40 PM , Rating: 2
I see the wii as the winner because I find it fun!

(waits for comments: No good games, bad graphics, no hi-def capabilities, etc.)

Honestly Microsoft and Sony both have good systems with good games, so if you like them great. The point is to have fun, not to try to prove "your system is best". If you like your system, then it is the real next gen winner, and each person will have a different next gen winner.

Really blu-ray and HD DVD are very similar in capabilities/marketting. Yes there are differences, but you basically have a battle between several large corporations for media dominance. It is unfortunate if you invested money in Blu-Ray/HD DVD if your format loses, but otherwise, it does not make a significant difference to the AVERAGE consumer. Also, please remember a lot of the content difference, could be easily made equal and wonderful by the distributor/publisher, if they implemented the latest standards i.e. java/xml feature support, if they only were willing to invest enough money in it. Of course it is a business, so expect to see many Blu-Ray AND HD DVD releases in the near future, not full realizing these features.


RE: HD-DVD will win
By leexgx on 8/13/2007 1:32:38 PM , Rating: 2
in the PC market BD will win as BD disks offer More disk space then HD-DVD (Single layer HD/BD 15gb/25gb - Dual layer HD/BD 30gb/50gb, and i cant see the point in getting HD-DVD burner with limited disk space, but i would buy an combo HD-DVD reader with BD burner

BD can have Dual layer DVD/BD combo disk but most people probably have the DVD disk any way so its an moot point

games on Xbox cant be high Q HD as its limited to an DVD disk size of 9GB the PS3 starts @ 25gb and 50gb for dual layer so can offer more content (there are not that many good games for the PS3 yet but will sooner or later)

just need to get the price of the PS3 down in the EU before the uptake comes on


RE: HD-DVD will win
By masher2 (blog) on 8/13/2007 3:51:17 PM , Rating: 2
> "in the PC market BD will win as BD disks offer More disk space then HD-DVD (Single layer HD/BD 15gb/25gb - Dual layer HD/BD 30gb/50gb"

HD DVD-RAM is 20GB/layer, not 15. So in the data market, BD still holds a space advantage, but a considerably smaller one, as a dual-layer disc will hold just under 40GB.


RE: HD-DVD will win
By Keeir on 8/13/2007 6:01:17 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
HD DVD-RAM is 20GB/layer, not 15. So in the data market, BD still holds a space advantage, but a considerably smaller one, as a dual-layer disc will hold just under 40GB.


Based on DVD-RAM, I don't think HD DVD-RAM will make much inroads into computer backup/storage. Primarly because of the greater expense. I think DVD-RAM costs around 2x as DVD-RW and records slower. If the same trend is true with HD DVD to HD DVD-RAM, wouldn't HD DVD-RAM be more expensive than Blu-Ray, store less, and record slower? HD DVD-RAM would also be more expensive per gig of storage than HD DVD...


RE: HD-DVD will win
By AWeav09 on 8/15/2007 1:31:46 PM , Rating: 2
Whatever happened to Toshiba's triple-layer 51 GB HD-DVD technology announced at CES? If these discs are ever released, they would push HD-DVD's capacity 1 GB over BD's, although I imagine that they would cost more than BDs.

link: http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=5656

This article also mentions the possibility of Blu-Ray discs and HD-DVDs with up to ten layers, which would put Blu-Ray back on top in terms of capacity.

In light of this, I think it's unfair at this point to say that BD will win in the PC market due to capacity, as we don't yet know what the future holds for the capacities of these formats.


RE: HD-DVD will win
By melgross on 8/13/2007 2:00:38 PM , Rating: 2
So the fact that BD sales are ahead of those of HD-DVD for a while now, and are accelerating, is of no significance for you?

BD players are also dropping in price. In another year, the price will be about the same.

As BD sales are so far ahead, some companies who are now selling both versions will, at some point, stop selling the slower selling one.

Even now, there are less studios releasing in HD-DVD than BD.

The consumer is interested in content.

With the new $499 player, and the PS3 reduced to $499, the trend will only continue.


RE: HD-DVD will win
By omnicronx on 8/13/2007 2:19:54 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
So the fact that BD sales are ahead of those of HD-DVD for a while now, and are accelerating, is of no significance for you?
other way around buddy, bd movie sales were higher, tides are now turning the other way with BD still leading.
quote:
BD players are also dropping in price. In another year, the price will be about the same.
would you like to show some proof of this? the BD laser diode costs more to make, and have lower yields than HD-DVD's.
quote:
As BD sales are so far ahead, some companies who are now selling both versions will, at some point, stop selling the slower selling one.
comment based upon? while your up your ass can you get me a cupcake??
quote:
Even now, there are less studios releasing in HD-DVD than BD.
If you are meaning HD-DVD is losing support and BD is gaining support this is false, BD has more supported studios but this was from the start, and the number of content released for both is not that far off, especially with independents and smaller studios choosing HD-DVD for its lower production costs.
quote:
The consumer is interested in content.
this is up to the eye of the beholder, far too early to know this, i think you are right as content on Highdef players is much better than DVDS, but if you look at DVD releases in the past, special content is not a sure thing for sales.
quote:
With the new $499 player, and the PS3 reduced to $499, the trend will only continue
The ps3 is only 499 for the remaining 60GB models, 80GB models have already been released at the original pricepoint. I wouldnt expect 60gig models to hang around too much longer either.


RE: HD-DVD will win
By Kazuo on 8/13/2007 2:44:38 PM , Rating: 2
Except the 20GB model PS3 is still on the market for $449.
http://www.gamestop.com/product.asp?product%5Fid=0...
They've stopped being made months and months ago and are still readily available, so the "they'll be gone tomorrow" argument on the 60GB one is pretty hollow.


RE: HD-DVD will win
By omnicronx on 8/13/2007 3:04:38 PM , Rating: 2
lol, thats one store, how many of those do you really think gamestop has. They obviously overstocked on the original 20gig and got screwed when sony discontinued the product.
That site is a viable solution for a tiny percentage of americans only, I live in canada and i looked hard to find a 20gig model but to no avail.

If you really think the remaining stock of the 20gig/60gig models are going to last longer than a few months, you have some problems.


RE: HD-DVD will win
By Loc13 on 8/13/2007 4:06:31 PM , Rating: 2
And if you think the 80GB version would stay at the same price point once the 60GB version sells out, you have some problems too. They can't bundle Motorstorm with every PS3 forever.

If I remember correctly, there was a DT article about industry analysts expect the 80GB version selling at $500 once the current 60GB stock runs out. Or was it an article from Engadget...


RE: HD-DVD will win
By walk2k on 8/13/2007 3:55:08 PM , Rating: 2
The PS3 20GB is now $399 at my local EBstop. No I don't know how many they have...


RE: HD-DVD will win
By R3MF on 8/13/2007 2:38:03 PM , Rating: 2
not living in this reality.

live with it, blu-ray is selling more, and appears that bit will continue to do so.


RE: HD-DVD will win
By Kazuo on 8/13/2007 2:43:13 PM , Rating: 2
Except you can get the 20GB PS3 for $449 at Gamestop. Xbox 360 is $279 now too. $280+$180 = $460, which puts it $10 above the low-end PS3, and without wireless controllers or HDD...
http://www.gamestop.com/product.asp?product%5Fid=0... for ze proof.


RE: HD-DVD will win
By omnicronx on 8/13/2007 2:52:27 PM , Rating: 2
And i can buy a nintendo 64 for $30, too bad they dont make them anymore and they are only available in a very few amount of stores and it is not an option for lets say.. almost everyone? comparing a discontinued product to the current line of consoles is stupid. I am not saying its not a good idea if you can get your hands on one, but its not a viable solution for most people.


RE: HD-DVD will win
By elmikethemike on 8/14/07, Rating: 0
A small point
By v1001 on 8/13/07, Rating: -1
RE: A small point
By rninneman on 8/13/2007 11:55:50 AM , Rating: 2
What is your source on this information about store inventory? I have seen several articles about the Blu-Ray version outselling the HD-DVD version with no such mention of stores selling out of one or the other. Without a credible source, your point has no basis. (Not that I think you are necessarily making this up, I just want to see something more than hearsay.)

Recent studies (I'm trying to find the links right now.) have shown, most PS3 owners are completely unaware of the Blu-Ray playback capabilities of the PS3. It is really hard to gauge the number people that have actively sought out Blu-Ray playback hardware as compared to HD-DVD where they either had to buy a standalone player or the Xbox add-on drive for the sole purpose of playing movies.


RE: A small point
By kattanna on 8/13/2007 12:03:48 PM , Rating: 3
i know that this was true for my friend. we tried to find it on HD, but none of the local best buys had it in stock in HD. sold out.

so he ended up getting the standard def version for now, cause he REALLY wanted to see it.


RE: A small point
By tigen on 8/13/2007 3:07:11 PM , Rating: 2
He's never heard of rentals?


RE: A small point
By Lightning III on 8/13/2007 12:06:24 PM , Rating: 2
RE: A small point
By VoodooChicken on 8/13/2007 12:29:46 PM , Rating: 2
I've never seen an HD DVD copy of 300. I've seen many Blu Rays on the shelves and display cases. I haven't seen any HD copies in any of the rental stores around here (Blockbuster's blu rays were already snatched up). I'm sure Best Buy's flew off the shelves because of that paperweight thingy they were selling with it.


RE: A small point
By JasonMick (blog) on 8/13/2007 1:20:00 PM , Rating: 3
Just a thought, but I saw both copies at my local Border Books retail store. I was there just a couple days after it came out and they had a prominent display with both hi-def formats, with a roughly equal number of copies. Maybe there are regional supply issues, as my region is rather affluent and seems like one where there would be higher than average demand.

All flaming aside/bias aside, as a standard def user who owns neither format, I have to admit that the decisions of Sony and Blockbuster have given a great advantage to Blu-ray. The cheaper players/more full-featured current titles are definitely a boon for HD-DVD, but with all of Blockbuster's HiDef being Blu-Ray, I think this may prove the decisive blow in the format war.

For now I am happy to sit out and watch DVDs and await a super-low priced victor with a fully realized feature set!


RE: A small point
By MattCoz on 8/13/2007 3:01:05 PM , Rating: 2
Yeah, I went out looking to buy the HD-DVD version but couldn't find it anywhere. So that sounds about right that stores didn't order as many and that's why sales were lower.


RE: A small point
By Fallen Kell on 8/13/2007 4:13:17 PM , Rating: 1
You will not see ANY HD-DVD's at Blockbuster (outside the very limited trial stores). Blockbuster has already standardized on BluRay only. They do not have the shelf-space for both formats and they did a bunch of trial tests in different locations. In just about every location for the trial, BluRay out rented HD-DVD by a huge margin. A decree was issued from corporate Blockbuster to all their affiliate stores to only stock BluRay disks. The exceptions are the few trial stores which already had a small stock of HD-DVD disks and had found them to be profitable (which is even smaller then the small group that has the HD-DVD's to begin with).


RE: A small point
By DingieM on 8/14/2007 10:28:18 AM , Rating: 1
Yeah, Blockbuster is being bribed by $ony, that much is true.
Pity for the Blu-Ray backers or fan-boys, but you can just smell it they are afraid HD-DVD is doing well, well enough to be cast out of the market.
Period.
Actions Like blockbuster and Target's physical stores just show it. Angst, Fear. You can feel it, smell it.
$ony wants to cram Blu-Ray through our throats so they can earn exorbitant amounts of cash for royalties.
Shees-kebab.

Though both formats are still a very small niche-market, neither one will gain much ground. Why? because of the internet that vastly overshadows disc-based media already. Then there will be flash, hell over a year there will be flash cards the size of a square inch carrying over 30GB of data.


RE: A small point
By Guyver on 8/13/2007 4:16:50 PM , Rating: 2
Those same studies also included lots of pre-teens and people at retirement age. I have to question just how many preteens and retirees know what Blu-Ray is or frequently buy one.

This study would have had more credibility had they surveyed a target age group of those in their teens to their late 30s or early 40s.

The percentage of those using Blu-Ray is probably quite higher if you exclude pre-teens and retirees.


RE: A small point
By softwiz on 8/13/2007 12:22:40 PM , Rating: 2
I have visted / called all the stores in my area (~ 12) and they were all sold out of the HD-DVD version. If stores had ordered more HD-DVDs, then quite simply more would been sold. Since that that wasn't the case...this story is just worthless spin IMO. ;)


RE: A small point
By Fallen Kell on 8/13/2007 4:16:26 PM , Rating: 2
It must be your area. My area has sold out of the BluRay version several times already. They have not been able to keep it on the shelves. The local BestBuy has sold out 4 times already (and that is only limited by the number of shipments they have received).


RE: A small point
By softwiz on 8/13/2007 5:16:53 PM , Rating: 3
I actually wasn't commenting on the lack of a Blu-ray sellout or Blu-ray much at all.

I was merely speaking to how the lack of stock of HD-DVDs may have resulted in one many of potentially non-favorable positions for the HD-DVD camp.

It seemed (to me) like this article was trying to say..."The people chose Blu-ray over HD-DVD where 300 viewing was concerned." This was hardly the case IMO.

When any desired HD-DVD is not available for purchase and that is due to a B&M store's inability to provide one (stock shortages, etc), the consumer will "most likely" do one of the following...(online stores excluded)

1 Purchase the Bluray version (for those with both players)
2 Purchase the DVD version
3 Purchase nothing

All the above situations fail to increase HD-DVDs sales figures. #1 has the least desirable effect by actually raising the Bluray sales figures.


RE: A small point
By 9nails on 8/13/2007 7:37:49 PM , Rating: 2
I'd agree with you.

I could only find 300 in standard DVD and Blu-Ray format. Which I refused to purchase. The Deluxe 300 DVD set and HD-DVD sets were suspiciously missing from shelves when I looked, at 3 different stores on 2 separate occasions. Feeling de ja vu from my Nintendo Wii and DS hunting, I had given up on the purchase until I felt enough time had gone buy for supply to meet demand. Perhaps I'm a bad consumer, but if they don't have stock on shelves in a timely manor I'm quicker to give up on the purchase.


RE: A small point
By CZroe on 8/13/2007 12:29:06 PM , Rating: 2
I actually heard the exact opposite from Best Buy employees on the 'net: The Blu-Ray version was selling out everywhere due to low initial estimates for stock.


RE: A small point
By bplewis24 on 8/13/2007 12:32:01 PM , Rating: 5
Unfortunately for your theory, the 2-to-1 ratio also held up for online sales as well for such sites as Amazon.com. Or did amazon not have enough hd-dvd's in stock as well?

Brandon


RE: A small point
By guidryp on 8/13/2007 12:45:57 PM , Rating: 1
This doesn't hold water. Stats show similar trend at Amazon and they have stock of both. Furthermore if they were so hard to find at B&M shops, Amazon sales of HD-DVD version should be booming to compensate.

You need to wake up an smell the coffee. HD-DVD is not going to win. The only question is whether it will continue to survive along side Blu Ray.


RE: A small point
By steven975 on 8/13/2007 2:48:06 PM , Rating: 1
the overhead at amazon and online shops is much lower, so they don't have to think carefully about what they stock and when.

stores do as shelf space is very expensive. Just pointing out the different economics.

The HD-DVD copy had supply and price working against it.


RE: A small point
By bplewis24 on 8/13/2007 3:01:13 PM , Rating: 5
quote:
the overhead at amazon and online shops is much lower, so they don't have to think carefully about what they stock and when


That is exactly the point. When overhead and stock issues are taken out of the equation, it is more representative of pure demand. And in the case of amazon.com, Blu-ray was in higher demand than the HD-DVD version. So your point illustrates exactly why the "understocked" theory has a hole in it. Because at a place where stock/shelf space didn't matter, the same ratio seemed to have held up so far.

Brandon


RE: A small point
By geddarkstorm on 8/13/2007 3:26:59 PM , Rating: 2
You missed the other point that if people couldn't find what they wanted in B&M, the demand, still being there, would spill over into the on-line retailers. That would equal a massive boom in HD-DVD sales over Bluray. However, since now compensation ever occurred--since the ratios of sales for both on-line and B&M were the same--understocking at B&M stores cannot be the reason for the trend.

Even so, if availability is lower for HD than Blu, then people will rapidly learn they need Bluray stuff to watch the movies they want in HiDef; which is a decisive factor in adoption.


RE: A small point
By steven975 on 8/13/2007 4:00:27 PM , Rating: 2
That's not a good assumption.

You're assuming 100% of customers that can't find a copy in B&M will go online. That isn't the case, and having that occur in a 6 day window is even more unlikely.

The more likely scenario is that if a HD-DVD owner doesn't find the disc they will either pass or by the DVD.

Also, are you certain that the ratio at amazon is 2:1? I know the BD sells more (price a big big part of this) but do you have an ONLINE breakdown.

The perfect breakdown would be the online sales if the price were the same. Unfortunately this is not possible. I'd like to see the breakdown for an identically priced release like Shooter myself. I think that would be more like 60-40 or 55-45.


RE: A small point
By melgross on 8/13/07, Rating: 0
RE: A small point
By DingieM on 8/14/2007 10:34:34 AM , Rating: 2
He didn't whine about it just only makes a "small" point.

On the other hand, you are whining saying he should get used to it.

Are you afraid of HD-DVD or something? Your reaction implies a lot.
Face it.
Get used to that!

Trends shift, everything shift.
I bet you are going to whine if HD-DVD hypthetical wins.
C'mon.


RE: A small point
By Shadowmaster625 on 8/13/2007 4:40:13 PM , Rating: 2
300 IS a movie that many many PS3 owners would want to buy. Why in blazes haven't they? Sony should be disturbed by this!

Hmm maybe the average PS3 owner is too dumb to know the difference between blu-ray, and regular dvd? So they just buy the regular dvd? Or maybe the price of the PS3 has hit their wallet so hard that they can only afford regular dvd? lol that would be ironic for Sony. They ate into their own market, with a subsidized product.


RE: A small point
By elmikethemike on 8/14/2007 2:37:44 AM , Rating: 2
Have you considered that not every PS3 owner collects DVDs of any kind? That maybe not everyone goes out and spends $20-$30 on every new movie that comes out? Maybe they'll rent it? Maybe they dont watch movies at all?

I myself picked up the movie. I had to choose between either HD DVD or BluRay because I have a player of each flavor, and I chose BluRay.

Oh, and by the way, you simply cannot call the PS3 a "subsidized product". I'm not sure how you can even consider this notion, given the cost of stand-alone BluRay players. If you want to talk subsidized, lets talk about the heat sinks in 360s and how one in three consoles is doomed.

Yea, that's what I thought.


RE: A small point
By AWeav09 on 8/13/2007 9:07:15 PM , Rating: 1
This was the case for me. My local FYE and Wal-Mart Supercenter were both sold out of the HD-DVD version of 300, while there were still plenty of Blu-Ray discs on the shelves in the days following its release.


xcrap 360 people go home
By GlassHouse69 on 8/13/07, Rating: -1
RE: xcrap 360 people go home
By steven975 on 8/13/2007 2:59:02 PM , Rating: 2
You're going to have to prove that one. You're just putting out fanboy drivel now.

The $799 Toshiba XA2 has sold well at Amazon, very very well often being in the top 5 DVD players.

That's better than any BD player at least until the S-300 came out (and the wealthy you mention won't touch that one as it is to cheap!)


RE: xcrap 360 people go home
By B on 8/13/2007 8:35:45 PM , Rating: 1
I liked how you used "Xcrap 360" versus Xbox 360 in your title, it’s clever and helps articulate your point. Sometimes I use M$ when I refer to Microsoft (it is an $ instead of an S to show they're greedy).

Regarding your question: "why bother making more hddvd's to fill the shortage when the wealthy population desires blu-ray? [sic]"

Perhaps the wealthy population is not where all the profits are. The percentage of U.S. households that earn over $500,000 per year is quite meager. In fact only 1.50% (or 1,699,000) of US households earn $250,000 and above (- Source wikipedia). Given that the market you defined is quite slim, it’s logical that Warner has a more inclusive strategy. Thus, they manufacture the movie for the HD DVD format and even the plain vanilla DVD format too.

Presuming each format survives for the next five years, both Blu-ray and HD DVD players will eventually be a $50 Black Thursday item at Wal-Mart and everyone that wants one can have one.


"If you look at the last five years, if you look at what major innovations have occurred in computing technology, every single one of them came from AMD. Not a single innovation came from Intel." -- AMD CEO Hector Ruiz in 2007

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