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Print 47 comment(s) - last by EricMartello.. on Aug 6 at 4:45 AM

328d is more fuel efficient than the smaller Volkswagen Jetta TDI

BMW’s previous 335d wasn’t really a success here in the United States. While the vehicle offered respectable power output and a boatload of low-end torque, it just wasn’t a big seller in part due to its high price. However, it looks as though the iconic German automaker is looking to get things right the second time around.
 
BMW may have not officially announced the fuel efficiency numbers for its diesel-powered 2014 328d, but the EPA has already posted the numbers online. The 328d sedan gets an impressive 32 mpg in the city and 45 mpg on the highway (37 mpg combined). That makes the 328d more efficient than the less powerful, “eco-minded” Jetta TDI (34 combined), Cruze-D (33 combined), and the larger Passat TDI.


BMW plans to offer the 328d in the U.S. as a rear-wheel drive sedan and with optional xDrive all-wheel-drive. Adding all-wheel-drive barely puts a dent in the fuel economy numbers, dropping them to 31 mpg in the city and 43 mpg on highway.
 
The 328d is expected to hit dealerships this fall packing a 2.0-liter diesel engine producing 180 hp and 280 pound-feet of torque.
 
And in a shocking twist, wagon owners won’t be left out this time around. The 328d will be also available in an xDrive wagon variant for those that need more cargo space than the sedan, but don’t want to give up any handling prowess by going with a crossover.

Source: Autoblog



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It will sell
By BRB29 on 8/2/2013 10:56:17 AM , Rating: 2
It will sell if the price is in line with the regular 328.

I'll pay maybe 500-1000 extra for the diesel variant. It's a tough sell in the US when people who buys these luxury cars would rather have more power and performance than mpg. These same people don't like the inconvenience diesel not offered at every gas station. The American mindset is hybrid > diesel also.




RE: It will sell
By Brandon Hill (blog) on 8/2/2013 11:02:48 AM , Rating: 3
$500 to $1,000? HAHAHAHAHA...HAHAHAHAHA. This is BMW we're talking about here :)


RE: It will sell
By BRB29 on 8/2/2013 12:07:00 PM , Rating: 2
yep, which is why my money is probably going to the 2014 mazda 3 hatchback.

I'll buy the bmw z4 35 as my fun far. That or the audi ttrs. Was looking at the newer c7 corvette but the city roads will destroy that car.


RE: It will sell
By Brandon Hill (blog) on 8/2/2013 12:28:37 PM , Rating: 1
I was looking at the new Mazda 3s hatchback as well (which was just recently announced)... it looks great, 40 mpg is great, but the cargo capacity is lacking for my needs.

Ended up picking up a Jetta Sportwagen TDI DSG last week.


RE: It will sell
By chrnochime on 8/2/2013 4:03:01 PM , Rating: 1
You would've been much better off with a manual, repair/reliability-wise. Instead you chose the DSG...Good luck with that.


RE: It will sell
By Brandon Hill (blog) on 8/2/2013 5:49:08 PM , Rating: 2
Wife can't drive stick. Bummer.


RE: It will sell
By spread on 8/2/2013 8:32:30 PM , Rating: 2
If only there was some method by which someone who knows how to drive stick would show someone else how to drive stick.

Hmmmm...


RE: It will sell
By Brandon Hill (blog) on 8/2/2013 10:20:13 PM , Rating: 3
She has no intention of learning stick and is stubborn. Once she has it in her mind that she's not going to do something, that's it.

I value my sanity.


RE: It will sell
By Spuke on 8/3/2013 2:57:51 PM , Rating: 2
Here's hoping they bring over a 428d. I'd MUCH have a Bimmer for a beater car than almost anything else. Yeah, labor is hella expensive at $150/hr locally but the driving dynamics are unmatched in that price range. I've always liked BMW but I'm totally sold on it after a year of ownership. I even convinced my BIL on a 535i and now he's a fan. :)


RE: It will sell
By Spuke on 8/3/2013 2:59:19 PM , Rating: 2
BTW, I'd only pick one up used (if I was buying for myself...wife's Bimmer is new) that's why I mentioned the labor rate. If you're under warranty, the maintenance is "free".


RE: It will sell
By Stuka on 8/4/2013 12:22:48 PM , Rating: 2
I have a first gen VW DSG in my 07 GTI and it has been rock solid. Six years in Arizona heat with 95% manual mode use and regular 6000rpm+ shifts seems like a good trial. I have heard of just as many issues with de-laminating clutch discs in the manuals as Mechatronic units in the DSG. Reliability is not an issue.


RE: It will sell
By Samus on 8/5/2013 11:56:41 AM , Rating: 2
I agree. Modern manual transmissions are equally as unreliable as DSG because of the use of DMF (dual mass flywheels) that often fail before the clutch disc itself, and various other components that are now made cheap (plastic hydraulic master cylinders to reduce weight, less friction material to reduce weight/costs, smaller diameter components to reduce weight/size for smaller applications, etc.)

Nothing is as reliable as an old slushbox with a good transcooler and a 30k/semi-annual flush.

I've had a buddy replace the DSG clutchpack on his Audi A4 with 110k for the cool cost of $3500, negotiated down from $5000. He was also driving a (comped) rental for a week while work was completed.


RE: It will sell
By michal1980 on 8/2/2013 1:29:30 PM , Rating: 2
no one seriously cross shops a mazda 3 with a bmw.


RE: It will sell
By spread on 8/2/2013 8:30:57 PM , Rating: 2
You're right Mazdas are usually more reliable.


RE: It will sell
By chrnochime on 8/2/2013 3:59:38 PM , Rating: 2
You can't be serious to consider the Z4 a fun car. The TT-RS yes but the current Z4 is a glorified cruiser that so happens to be pretty fast. Spend more for the Cayman/S which is way better than the Z4. If you really want to look good and don't care about driving dynamics, get the SLK instead.


RE: It will sell
By Jeffk464 on 8/4/2013 3:50:41 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
yep, which is why my money is probably going to the 2014 mazda 3 hatchback.


Yup, mazda's new efficiency tech is pretty awesome.


RE: It will sell
By EricMartello on 8/6/2013 4:39:54 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
yep, which is why my money is probably going to the 2014 mazda 3 hatchback.


Good thinking. The fugly mazda with the retarded-fat-guy-smiling front end is cheaper than a BMW. I'm so glad you brought this to my attention because for a second I was worried that a Mazda is going to be priced like a BMW since they're so similar!

quote:
I'll buy the bmw z4 35 as my fun far. That or the audi ttrs. Was looking at the newer c7 corvette but the city roads will destroy that car.


The Z4 and TT are both women's cars, dude. Grow a pair and stop eating soy products.

The C7 is another car with repulsive aesthetics and the stigma of being a welfare racer since every GM vehicle sold after 2008 is partially owned by the taxpayer...but city roads will not destroy it. As ugly as it is, it's going to be the fastest and best performing by far out of the stuff you listed.

If you want a BMW get a 1 series, if you want an Audi get the S4. If you like ugly-but-fast cars get the C7 and paint it with primer.


RE: It will sell
By Hulk on 8/2/2013 1:35:37 PM , Rating: 2
He's not saying that's what they will price it at, he's saying that's what they should price it at if they want it to sell.

And I'm in complete agreement with him. I'd bite for $500 to $1000 more than the gas version. Any more than that and I'll pass.


RE: It will sell
By Mint on 8/2/2013 2:39:21 PM , Rating: 2
If you drive 15k miles per year, 37 MPG combined will save $400-600/yr over a car getting 26 MPG, depending on the gas-diesel price difference.

That's worth more than $1k, unless you don't like the performance drop of the diesel.


RE: It will sell
By Nutzo on 8/2/2013 11:14:22 AM , Rating: 5
quote:
The American mindset is hybrid > diesel


Diesel's are fine if you have a long commute on a open highway, but are not much better than a gas car in the city or in heavy/slow traffic. A Hybrid will generally out preform a diesel in city or in gridlocked highway driving.

A lot of Americans (like me) have to deal with excessive gridlock and long stop lights during thier commute. My commute is worse than most as it's all city driving, so my average speed (as tracked my the car's trip computer) is less than 20 MPH. That's why I bought a Hybrid.


RE: It will sell
By hpglow on 8/2/2013 11:48:56 AM , Rating: 1
MPG aside the fat torque curve alone makes them worth driving. I have an older Jetta with the 90hp Diesel engine and it still pulls harder with 200k miles on it than my '04 Jeep with a v6. Once you drive a turbo diesel it's hard to drive anything else.


RE: It will sell
By BRB29 on 8/2/2013 12:02:50 PM , Rating: 2
I think you're confusing fat torque curve with low end torque.


RE: It will sell
By Argon18 on 8/2/2013 12:05:39 PM , Rating: 2
Don't forget the longevity. 300k miles is "normal" to get out of a diesel car. A hybrid will be in the scrap yard long before 300k miles.

Also the resale value. Resale value on hybrids is awful, due to expensive battery replacements and other unknowns. Resale value on used diesels is through the roof - 2x or 3x what their gasoline counterparts sell for.


RE: It will sell
By Reclaimer77 on 8/2/2013 12:31:34 PM , Rating: 2
Oh please, that argument lol

Who looking to buy a BMW is the type who keeps a car for 300k plus miles?

quote:
Resale value on used diesels is through the roof - 2x or 3x what their gasoline counterparts sell for.


wtf??

Diesels do NOT sell for three TIMES more than their gas counterparts. What are you smoking? And the only reason their resale value is higher, is because they cost much more initially. Hello?


RE: It will sell
By Argon18 on 8/2/2013 1:21:00 PM , Rating: 2
To answer your question, I am. I kept my diesel VW Passat for 320k miles. But more specifically, your single-owner assumption is flawed. I didn't buy my passat new, I bought it used. But knowing that as a diesel it would be good for 300k or more made it a more attractive used car.

Don't take my word for the 3x price. Look on ebay or autotrader for a used VW Passat. Compare two of them with 100k miles on the odometer. The diesel will be between 2x and 3x the asking price of the gasoline model. I know, I've owned both. I sold my gasoline Passat for $1800. It had only ~150k miles on it. I sold my diesel Passat for $5200 and it had well over 300k miles on it.

"wtf" to you sir, maybe next time so a little homework?


RE: It will sell
By Mint on 8/2/2013 2:24:12 PM , Rating: 2
Your single example does not qualify the statement that diesels sell for 2-3x as much.

I'm looking on autotrader, and it's difficult to find matching diesel/gas comparisons with high mileage. Here's one:

http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledet...
http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledet...

I would say there's a $1-3k premium for diesel resale value. It costs $3k more to buy the TDI, so it's an option that holds value well, but it's not some panacea of low depreciation.


RE: It will sell
By rich_92 on 8/2/2013 3:27:39 PM , Rating: 2
Wow. What Argon18 is saying is true. Check out the KBB values for a 2004 Passat GLS with 160K, gas vs diesel.
http://www.kbb.com/volkswagen/passat/2004-volkswag...
http://www.kbb.com/volkswagen/passat/2004-volkswag...


RE: It will sell
By Mint on 8/2/2013 5:09:53 PM , Rating: 2
Well that's a much better data point. But as Nutzo says below, it's just one manufacturer.

In general, all fuel saving technologies have higher resale values. Unless you're getting a car known for performance, 4 cylinder cars wind up reselling for as much as V6 versions of the same car.


RE: It will sell
By Noya on 8/5/2013 6:51:20 AM , Rating: 2
KBB is a joke. Use Nada or Edmunds.


RE: It will sell
By Nutzo on 8/2/2013 4:25:15 PM , Rating: 2
That's because the gas Passat has a very poor resell value due to it's lousy reliability and expensive repair costs.

We could compare the resell value of a Diesel Passat to some of the Asian gas cars, and you'd see that the Diesel Passat really doesn't have that good of a resell value.


RE: It will sell
By Reclaimer77 on 8/2/2013 6:20:13 PM , Rating: 2
That's ONE model of car. The gas Passat is crap! One of the lowest rated cars on Earth! Of course the resale value is lower. And ebay and autotrader? You find all kinds of crazy prices there, that's far from scientific.

The fact that you even bought VW's disqualifies you from being knowledgeable about vehicles. Maybe if YOU did a little homework, you wouldn't have bought the worst brand on the planet?

And you're beyond being myopic, I have no way to verify if what you're saying is true.

Maybe Passat's sell 3X more than their gas counterparts. But for you to make the blanket statement that "diesels" resell for three times higher than petrol cars is just FUD. Admit it and move on.


RE: It will sell
By Nutzo on 8/2/2013 4:19:42 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Resale value on hybrids is awful


Not our here in Southern California. A 6 year old Camry Hybrid is usually worth more than a top of the line 6 year old Camry XLE.

The Prius usually has a better resell value than a Corolla which is similar in size car by the same manufacture.

The bateries on the Prius and Camry Hybrids should last over 200K miles which is longer than most people drive thier cars. Plus, that expensive battery has come down in price, and is cheaper to replace than that expensive Euro transmission. The battery is even cheaper if you have it rebuilt, and only the bad cells replaced.

As for lasting 300K miles, you proved my point. Diesels make sense for people who drive long distance on open freeways/highways. I really doubt you are putting 300K miles on a car with 95% city driving, unless you are operating as a taxi. It would take me over 40 years to put 300K miles on a car, and I don't keep my cars that long.


RE: It will sell
By Mint on 8/2/2013 4:57:23 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Don't forget the longevity. 300k miles is "normal" to get out of a diesel car. A hybrid will be in the scrap yard long before 300k miles.

Wrong.

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1020431_more-p...

http://money.cnn.com/2011/03/04/autos/toyota_prius...

http://www.mercurynews.com/ci_23057096/prius-goes-...


RE: It will sell
By EricMartello on 8/6/2013 4:45:39 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
MPG aside the fat torque curve alone makes them worth driving. I have an older Jetta with the 90hp Diesel engine and it still pulls harder with 200k miles on it than my '04 Jeep with a v6. Once you drive a turbo diesel it's hard to drive anything else.


Your 90 HP diesel Jetta would not pull on the VR6 (V6) version of the same car. Don't make dumb comparisons. Even the VW 2.0T gas engine is anemic with its low to mid range powerband and low RPMs, making it similar to a diesel in terms of performance.

Having an overabundance of low-end torque does not improve acceleration when the torque exists at the expense of horsepower. Diesel engines rev low, shift around 2.5K RPM with 3.5K redline, maybe. Less torque in exchange for higher revs, which means more HP, is more useful in daily driving than 250 ft-lbs of torque and a puny 90 HP.

I have driven a turbo diesel and I find it very easy to drive many things else.


RE: It will sell
By dilidolo on 8/2/2013 12:55:05 PM , Rating: 2
Not true.

I had 335i which comsumes 15L/100km, and I have x5 35d now, exact same route mostly in the city everyday, it's 11L/100km, not to mention X5 is 1500 lbs heavier than 335i.


RE: It will sell
By f148vr on 8/2/2013 11:34:01 AM , Rating: 2
Diesel adds about $2K to the price, both 2&4wd.


RE: It will sell
By Flunk on 8/2/2013 12:10:42 PM , Rating: 2
That's not too bad.


RE: It will sell
By lelias2k on 8/2/2013 3:40:18 PM , Rating: 2
Yeah So....
By Flunk on 8/2/2013 12:11:27 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
328d is more fuel efficient than the smaller Volkswagen Jetta TDI


That may be, but it's also just about twice the price so it's not really a fair comparison.




RE: Yeah So....
By Keeir on 8/2/2013 8:11:14 PM , Rating: 2
Welp..

the 328d is 56.3 tall and 71.3 wide (4014) and 182.5 long and has EPA volume of ~109 cubic feet (assuming same as Gas version) and get 37 MPG

the NA Jetta is 57.2 tall and 70 wide (4004) and 182.2 long and has EPA volume of 109.8 cubic feet and get 34 MPG

So for the same size car, the BMW is 8.8% more efficient.

BUT! I believe the 328d uses Adblue. The Jetta does not. For example, the VW Passat uses Adblue and its combined number is 34 for Auto and 35 for Manual.

The NA Passat is 58.5 tall and 72.2 wide (4223) and 191.6 long and has EPA vole of 117.9.

BMW has done a good job, but not as large as initially thought. They are even using an 8-speed transmission. Its not surprizing with these two additions they managed to get significant improvement. Adblue alone is a 5-6% improvement typically.


RE: Yeah So....
By blppt on 8/3/2013 1:06:53 AM , Rating: 2
The DSG *should* in and of itself cancel out some of the 8 speeds vs 6 advantage (if everything else was equal). Theres no power-sapping torque converter in the VW DSG. I'm pretty sure the Jetta is a good deal lighter as well (~3200lbs vs 3400 for a 2013 328i RWD).


RE: Yeah So....
By Keeir on 8/5/2013 7:56:12 PM , Rating: 2
I think though you are missing the point.

AdBlue significantly improves fuel economy on the EPA test. It seems to be relatively cheap at ~10 dollars a gallon. (Unless you go to a US dealership) But you need roughly 1 gallon/2000 miles.

Over 2000 miles, the Jetta will use roughly 3 gallons more of diesel. The BMW 328d will require 1 gallon of Adblue. Also, it will not start without AdBlue, so its just 1 more additional hazard.

So, the 328d will be roughly 1-2 dollar cheaper in fuel/adblue per 1,000 miles than the Jetta... for a cost improvement of ~1-2%. A significant gain for as you say a heavier car. If you compare the 328d to a VW car that uses Adblue then you get around the same ~1-2% improvement in cost.


Stupid
By macca007 on 8/5/2013 5:58:41 AM , Rating: 2
Seems rather stupid for any luxury car maker be it BMW or Mercedes to come out with these cut down versions, Trying to promote fuel economy and using smaller motors. The people who buy these cars in the first place can easily afford an extra $20-50 a week in petrol!




RE: Stupid
By piroroadkill on 8/5/2013 7:43:58 AM , Rating: 2
But the diesel BMW and Mercedes are extremely popular in Europe. They're not seen necessarily as cut down versions, but ones that allow business people to cruise up and down the motorways for long periods without having to constantly fill up the car.


VW & Diesels
By btc909 on 8/3/2013 3:36:15 AM , Rating: 2
I'm all for Diesels but not a VW Diesel. I hope the price on the Mazda 6 Diesel is reasonable but I doubt it.




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