DailyTech - 1/28/2008 Daily Hardware Reviews -- Radeon HD 3870 X2 Edition

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Hardware 1/28/2008 Daily Hardware Reviews -- Radeon HD 3870 X2 Edition
Gabriel Ikram (Blog) - January 28, 2008 6:02 PM

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29 comment(s) - last by CvP.. on Jan 30 at 3:36 AM

Radeon 3870 X2 Edition @ AnandTech

DailyTech's roundup of hardware reviews from around the web for Monday

Radeon HD 3870 X2 Reviews
AnandTech
TechReport
PCPerspective
HardwareCunucks
HotHardware
OCC
BootDaily
TweakTown
OCCafe
DriverHeaven
LegitReviews
ChileHardware (Spanish)

Motherboard
MSI P35 Platinum @ BootDaily
GIGABYTE X38T-DQ6 @ TweakTown
ASUS P5E3 Deluxe WiFi X38 Motherboard Review @ HardwareLogic.com

Video
ECS N8800GT-512MX DT @ t-break
GeForce 8800 GT Roundup @ InsideHW.com
Sparkle 8800GTS 512MB @ Madshrimps

Memory
OCZ 4GB Reaper X HPC PC2-6400 Memory Review @ Virtual-Hideout

Display
Samsung SyncMaster 2232GW 22-inch @ ThinkComputers

Cases
Sunbeamtech Rheobus Extreme @ Pro-Clockers
Nexus Caterpillar @ TechwareLabs

Cooling
Cooler Master Cosmos @ FPSLabs

Photography
Fujifilm FinePix A920 @ TrustedReviews

CE
SanDisk Sansa Clip MP3 Player @ TechwareLabs
Samsung SGH-D880 @ TechARP
Logitech Squeezebox @ LaptopLogic
Palm Treo 750 @ Techgage

Networking
Netgear WFS709TP @ TrustedReviews

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Yawn...

By Chiggs on 1/28/08, Rating: 0

RE: Yawn...

By deeznuts on 1/28/2008 6:51:57 PM , Rating: 2

You mean something like this?

http://forums.vr-zone.com/showthread.php?t=230836

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RE: Yawn...

By dr4gon on 1/28/2008 6:53:02 PM , Rating: 2

They'll fight the same way they've been fighting, a lower price.

$450 seems pretty fair to me especially when the 3870 is retailing at ~$230+ per card. This is two together and has the possibility of running crossfire X with 4 rv670s together.

The new 9800GX2 will certainly be better in drivers (as most newer games are sponsored by nvidia with the exception of half life title) and will be much faster but have a hefty price tag (replacing and probably more expensive than the 8800 Ultra)

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RE: Yawn...

By Chiggs on 1/28/2008 6:59:35 PM , Rating: 2

You raise some fair points. I almost bought a 3870 because I couldn't find an 8800GT for weeks.

I am excited about the future of multi-GPU cards, I just wish this one performed a little better, and it's price was $399.99. That would be tough to beat. As it stands now, the cards are $449.99 and they'll probably be more in the next couple of days.

Still, AMD is staying competitive in this field, which is a sight better than what's going on in processor land.

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RE: Yawn...

By StevoLincolnite on 1/28/2008 7:11:34 PM , Rating: 2

Thats very true, but ATI's Crossfire is more efficient than SLI at the moment. - And isn't the R700 supposedly coming out soon?

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RE: Yawn...

By DingieM on 1/29/2008 3:34:45 AM , Rating: 2

Be prepared to pay a hefty price for the nVidia solution. nVidia has problems with thermal characteristics. I've heard it many times now.
That will cost extra to shield the card against overheating.

AMD/ATI has surpassed nVidia in the thermal characteristics area and board layout (almost all digital now).
ATI's solution will stay much cooler, also because of its advanced powersaving.

And the current driver of the HD3870 X2 is not very good, it can do much faster, but we have to wait for that.

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RE: Yawn...

By Sahrin on 1/28/08, Rating: 0

RE: Yawn...

By Chiggs on 1/28/2008 7:27:02 PM , Rating: 2

Except the cost of an automobile alone pretty much makes the other 50% that you do lose a bit more noticeable than say, some low ticket item you discard fairly quickly.

How much value does a new car lose the minute you drive it off the lot?

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RE: Yawn...

By mmntech on 1/28/2008 7:47:06 PM , Rating: 2

I think it's 30% per annum in the first year and 20% for every year after if I remember my high school level accounting correctly.

$450 is pretty fair for that card though since two stand alone 3870s in Crossfire would cost about $460-$500.

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RE: Yawn...

By xsilver on 1/28/2008 8:39:28 PM , Rating: 2

your $50 USD card will still be worth $10 in 3 years time. I still see radeon 9250's that sell on ebay, I have no idea why anybody would want one but hey.

Your $450 card depreciates about the same amount actually (to $50 or so) but the problem being that the total dollar amount is a whole lot more.

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RE: Yawn...

By Hieyeck on 1/29/2008 9:31:23 AM , Rating: 2

of course, the R9200 series was a beast of a budget card...

not EVERYTHING depreciates: jewellery and real estate for example. of course, they still take the initial hit, but at most, you'd only lose the cost of processing (the craftsmanship or commission). After a few years however, it's almost garaunteed to appreciate in value, barring unfortunate events. (losing the ring, having the property fall off into the ocean or something)

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RE: Yawn...

By masher2

(blog) on 1/28/2008 11:19:34 PM , Rating: 5

> "Think about how quickly your average "sponge" loses value. Or a gallon of gasoline?"

Err, if you bought a gallon of gas for $1.50 five years ago, you could sell it for $3.00 today. That's appreciation, not depreciation.

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RE: Yawn...

By Sahrin on 1/29/2008 6:20:41 PM , Rating: 2

If you bought a gallon of gasoline and came back to it three years later to sell it, it would either have evaporated or turned into hydrocarbon soup - you're welcome to try and get 3/gal of oil scum.

If, however, you burned the gasoline - you would now have several pounds of CO2 and SO2 and HSO2...not worth very much, either.

The car loses value because you "use it up." Likewise, the gasoline loses value as you use it up (1 gallon becaome a half gallong becomes a quarter gallon). I didn't realize this analogy would be so unclear. My apologies.

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RE: Yawn...

By wordsworm on 1/28/2008 11:04:41 PM , Rating: 2

I don't consider $449 too expensive for the industry's finest. I just newegged a GTX for $470. I'd like to see graphs for video card prices over the next and last 4 weeks. I've seen v90 640 MB cards for less than $300. These are still competitive and I can't help but wonder where they're going to fall. Can someone say $150 at the end of the year? That's great, I'd love to go SLI on my 320 for $140 by the end of the year.

I think this is really just the beginning for AMD. Merging two alpha dogs together is obviously going to create some short term problems. But the long term gains have strong potential. Of course, failure is always a possibility, but I think this recent success of AMD's is a sign of things to come.

The fact that AMD has expertise in servers with multiple CPU has got to be useful to creating a video card with multiple GPU.

The biggest question is: will the techworld be turned over on its ear when fusion finally makes its debut?

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RE: Yawn...

By jbzx86 on 1/29/2008 9:19:48 AM , Rating: 1

Yeah, and the performance isn't as good as most of these "review" sites claim either. Remember, many of them (if not all) use canned time demos to "benchmark". I didn't see HardOCP.com up there in the list of review sites... why is that? They do actual in-game benchmarks, playing the game just like you and I would. They show a TOTALLY different story here. In fact, they compared it directly to the 8800 GTX of old and the GTX wins in all games BUT HL2 EP2.

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[H]ardOCP

By CvP on 1/29/2008 11:24:38 AM , Rating: 2

their review of 3870 X2 was intentionally left out?!

RE: [H]ardOCP

By Chiggs on 1/29/2008 11:29:11 AM , Rating: 2

I found that amusing, as well. It's arguably one of the better reviews.

Canned time demos are crapola.

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RE: [H]ardOCP

By ghost101 on 1/29/2008 1:10:02 PM , Rating: 4

So youu've bought in to the canned timedemo remark which has been quickly removed.

You do realise that the way they test their games is by actually playing the game with no strict limits on mimicing previous tests. So you want one test to perform worse? Fire an extra rocket now anad again.

All sites tend to use different timedemos where one isnt provided within the game. So if nearly all sites show similar relative performance between the 8800gtx and 3870x2, how can hardocp not question their methodology? They are clearly subject to high variance. Just look at some of their graphs. The differences in fps swings 20fps one way and then 20fps the other. How can that possibly be accurate.

Yes, timedemos will give different fps measurements, but the relative performance should remain the same. Unless you can explain that, hardocp's review should be rejected.

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RE: [H]ardOCP

By ghost101 on 1/29/2008 1:27:36 PM , Rating: 2

Should clarify when i say differences in fps, i mean the relative performance between both cards and not the normal swings within a game.

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RE: [H]ardOCP

By Chiggs on 1/29/2008 2:11:58 PM , Rating: 2

I think you're intentionally highlighting only the negative aspects of how they test, and completely avoiding the positives. As far as perfectly recreating each playthrough, of course they can't do that. But they can certainly play through a level with each card and give a damn good rundown of which card does better (minimums, maximums, etc). In fact, I'd argue that their testing method takes a lot longer than what the other guys do, which is why most of them probably don't do it this way.

And if you're insinuating that Kyle and crew are biased and paid off by Nvidia, then please provide some proof of this. If that's truly the case, then I can definitely see your concern with their testing methods.

But from my own experience, I've found HardOCP to be a pretty reliable hardware site...much more so than that joke called Tom's Hardware.

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RE: [H]ardOCP

By Chiggs on 1/29/2008 2:21:14 PM , Rating: 2

Just for reference, I usually supplement HardOCP with Anandtech. I just think using strictly pre-defined situations(timedemos) for benchmarks is a little outdated. Scripting ain't what it used to be in games. And that's why I like HardOCP's method.

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RE: [H]ardOCP

By bangmal on 1/29/2008 3:16:52 PM , Rating: 2

If you are a regular vistor of "hardocp" you should have seen that they do occasionally have some discounts offers if you buy thos nvidia cards linked from their sites.
If that is not conflict of interest, then nothing is.

especially all the other review site around the GLOBE show that 3870X2 is fastest, that looks that nvidia card commission earner looks even more suspicious.

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RE: [H]ardOCP

By CvP on 1/30/2008 3:20:24 AM , Rating: 2

I'm not taking any sides nor i'm telling you to take any specific one. but the facts are:

"Canned Timedemo"
-is NOT the thing you buy your gfx card for..you buy it to PLAY games.
- provides 99.99% accurate relative performance between TIMEDEMO but NOT the REAL GAME.
-doesn't reflect REAL gaming performance

"[H]OCP Method" i.e. Playing the game
-is the thing you buy your gfx card for
-there's no guarantee that the test is 100% accurate but this can be solved through repeated testing and then taking the average.
-provides actual (w.r.t. the above) real game performance

Now, it's upto the individuals which method they prefer more. Both review are helpful IMO .
but one thing i'm really disappointed about AnandTech's review is benchmarking using a cutscene.

quote:
Yes, timedemos will give different fps measurements, but the relative performance should remain the same.

how ?!! the "nature" of timedemos itself varies from game to game. a lot of things can be left out during timedemos...so the relative performance WILL NOT BE SAME in all cases.

on a side note, i'd like to read a review by some other site using HOCP's method as some people keep dragging the discount nvdia card thing.
hell! i'd like AnandTech to that!! choose three games, play the games, use FRAPS. benchmark. (repeat)x5. take average. let's see what happens......

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RE: [H]ardOCP

By CvP on 1/30/2008 3:36:46 AM , Rating: 2

i forgot to add...

quote:
Just now I saw the American new 3870X2 price, it is just 383.99$ . It is unbelievable!

http://en.hardspell.com/doc/showcont.asp?news_id=2...

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3870 x2 in crossfire

By wordsworm on 1/28/2008 8:51:30 PM , Rating: 2

Just a quick question: do any of these sites review this card in crossfire mode? If not... when?

RE: 3870 x2 in crossfire

By Deathspawner on 1/28/2008 10:19:47 PM , Rating: 2

The drivers are not ironed out, and won't be for a few more months. AnandTech's review speculates that it will happen in March, during CeBit.

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RE: 3870 x2 in crossfire

By jtemplin on 1/28/2008 10:45:08 PM , Rating: 2

Check the legitreviews for a comparison.

Mixed results, some games the Crossfire is faster and some games the x2 is faster. The differences are practically nil and I don't see any reason to choose the crossfire solution over the single board.

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